Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Searching for unique talent

Post by Eric Williams on April 30, 2012 at 7:12 am with 104 Comments »
April 30, 2012 7:12 am

My story today focuses on the critics of the Seattle Seahawks draft class.

I had an opportunity to talk with Rob Rang, senior draft analyst for Rang, who gave Seattle’s draft efforts a C grade, explained why some draft analysts have a lukewarm opinion of the Seahawks’ draft class.

Rang: “They selected players with very unique traits that are very intriguing,” Rang said. “But at the same time, they’re definitely raw. So they’re going to have to coach these guys up, and Pete’s good at that. They’re going to have to turn these guys into something that they haven’t demonstrated in the past.

“There’s some roll of the dice, so to speak. It’s just going to be interesting to see if these players can take advantage of it.”

ESPN’s Mike Sando offers his first impressions of the Seahawks’ draft. Sando: “Seattle used a league-high seven choices for defense. One of the three offensive players selected, seventh-round guard J.R. Sweezy, was a defensive lineman in college. Another offensive pick, quarterback Russell Wilson, projects as a backup for at least this season. Fourth-round running back Robert Turbin has a chance to help as the backup to Marshawn Lynch. But it’s unrealistic to think this draft will provide immediate help where the Seahawks needed it the most, on offense. This team is banking on improved quarterback play, a healthy Sidney Riceand better luck with injuries on the offensive line.”

Len Pasquarelli of The Sports Xchange provides more evidence Seattle did not reach on defensive end Bruce Irvin according to league scouts evaluating where he would go in the draft. Pasquarelli: “In conversations over the past two days, The Sports Xchange has confirmed that several other franchises, including the one picking directly after Seattle, had the former West Virginia University standout rated as a solid first-round candidate and likely would have chosen the hybrid pass-rusher had he been available to them.”

Pasquarelli goes on to say a Jets’ official called the Seahawks’ war room minutes after they made the pick and good-naturedly cursed the Seahawks for taking their player.

Dan Pompei of the National Football Post echoes Pasquarelli’s sentiments, and adds the Irvin personally wrote a letter to all 32 teams not edited by his handlers outlining his mistakes, saying he had learned from them asking the NFL to give him a chance.

Art Thiel of details Bruce Irvin’s struggles at Mt. San Antonio Junior College, including sharing a one-room rental apartment with eight or nine good-natured Samoans on the football team that were gracious enough to take him in.

Steve Kelly of The New Tribune writes that perhaps the Seahawks have forgotten this is a passing league, selecting eight defensive players in this year’s draft. Seattle addressed most of the team’s needs offensively in free agency.

John McGrath of The News Tribune writes that NFL Teams will rue the day they passed on Washington running back Chris Polk.

Peter King of Sports Illustrated writes that one of the reasons Miami passed on Matt Flynn in free agency is the team believes that Ryan Tannehill is a franchise quarterback. King also talked to Seattle GM John Schneider, who had this to says about the team’s quarterback group: “We don’t exactly have our quarterback position set in stone for the long run.”

General Seahawks
Leave a comment Comments → 104
  1. mojjonation says:

    So Miami passed on Flynn. Yeah. Right. And Tannehill was always thought of as a first round draft choice. Way to CYA Miami. Good thing Tanne looks good in shorts and a t-shirt. Polk may be running downhill over people for a while now. He’s always been a hard runner and now he’s in Philly. Way to put a bigger reason for that guy to lower his shoulders and plant someone on their rear. Seatlle blew that one.

  2. HawkyHann says:

    Here’s hoping to a healthy Sidney, BMW, Durham, Carpenter, Okung, and Moffitt. Why are people concerned with our offense?

  3. RDPoulsbo says:

    Huh? People take Kiper seriously?

    I’m not a huge fan of this draft primarily because there’s little to look at and see an immediate upgrade. Wagner and Turbin are they only guys I see improving the team this year. The rest, and that includes Irvin, do need some development to make the impact they’re looking for. I like a lot of the picks for NEXT season, but for this upcoming season, I’m not expecting too much.

    Reading through draft grades, it’s really embarrassing how little they know about the individual players and the teams that draft them. Mock draft “experts” really are nothing more than sheep that follow each other. Herd mentality at it’s finest.

  4. Dukeshire says:

    It’s a Bleacher Report “article”, does anyone take those seriously?

    No dount, there a a lot of projects in this class. But the first 3 are solid and I believe they’re far enough along to contribute from day one. Even Irvin.

  5. HawkyHann says:

    I love the pick from Florida, Jaye Howard. Yes, I called that one and knew the Quinn connection would play out somehow.

    Looking forward to hearing the song “wipe me down” when Irvin does his sack routine. Ever since Rocky Bernard and the shoulder lean left town we’ve been lacking a solid celebration on D.

  6. I couldn’t disagree more with the Steve Kelley article. When you have three babies with one year of “experience” that might make your opening day roster (Baldwin, Durham & Lockette) and another with only two years in the league (Tate), you don’t try to make the unit younger (at the expence of adding a pass rusher with your #1 pick). Sidney Rice is an old man and he’s 25 years old! The only real veteran we have is Obo and it’s nice to have a guy like that who actually knows his routes and can help mentor the kids – plus, I love his special teams play). I didn’t mention the others because I don’t expect them to make the team if everyone remains healthy.

  7. piperfeltcher says:

    I expect Irvin to help from day 1. With his speed off the edge and the crowd noise at home most RT are not going to stand a chance against him and I expect he will see a lot of double teams in home games as it will be hard for a RT to hear the snap count and beat him off the snap which will force teams to use a TE or a FB to contain the edge.

  8. piperfeltcher says:

    How in the world does Polk go undrafted?? Ever Huskie game I watched I would be impressed with Polk he is a good blocker who does not just block blitzers but hits them, he ia a great receiver he made a catch on a wheel route last year that was one of the nicer catches I have seen and chewed up yards on the ground. I do not get it.

  9. RDPoulsbo says:

    I foresee a lot of TE chip blocks coming Irvin’s way. Given his size, it’s not going to be that hard to get him blocked into the RT before the TE goes on his route. He does have speed in spades, but almost no moves to shed blockers. Even he admits that. Put him at Leo and he’ll dominate. Only problem is he’s not going to play Leo unless Clemons gets injured.

    I agree with BobbyK. The only WR I would have taken in this draft was Floyd. Everyone else would have been in with the rest of the mix of #5 WRs. They already have enough of those and they needed to go pass rush in the 1st round, so Floyd wasn’t the best option there. You expect lower round players take some time to develop. The idea the team wants to continue developing these guys shouldn’t be that mind boggling. The folly might be banking on Rice to stay healthy, but given the money he’s making, they’ve already banked on it.

  10. chuck_easton says:


    If the FO is to be believed everyone on your list with the exception of Carpenter will be good to go by training camp at the latest.

    I’m hoping that everyone STAYS healthy this year.

  11. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    duke, i put that link up because i felt it was spot on.

  12. NWPoseidon says:

    Great RBs go undrafted all the time. Typically they get overlooked for a bad combine, character issues or injury questions. In the case of Polk, I believe he showed up to a few events in the off season a little overweight and then has injury concerns with his shoulders. If you look from an outside perspective you can see why he might go undrafted but that does not mean he wont be a solid or potentially great pro. I think Philly is a pretty good landing spot for him. He should prove to be the #2 RB on the depth chart.

  13. Good article, Eric. Puts the criticism in perspective. The only criticisms I can really take seriously are Sando’s, that we could have used another player or two to compete on offense. I would have liked to see another TE or WR, but its not youth that’s needed there, another experienced player might have been a good move this offseason.

    But I also agree with Bobby, the main thing the offense needs is time to work together and mature together. I was really looking forward to seeing what TJack and his receivers might look like after an offseason of working together. Now I think that progress will be set back a little bit by Flynn’s learning curve, but if the O line comes together this year we should have a lot to look forward to in terms of young offensive players maturing and starting to shine.

    I’m reminded of a time Holmgren openly discussed his own mistakes. He had drafted for offense a couple years in a row while bringing in older free agents on defense. The result was a defense that was getting slower. Then he said he wished he had done the opposite – that offense players take longer to develop while defensive rookies can be thrown on the field and do fine. That’s very much what Carroll has done here by bringing in experience on offense with Rice, Miller, TJack, Marshawn, Gallery, Lutui, and Flynn, while going young and fast on D.

    Also, the new young speed isn’t just about D, but special teams could be really special this year. This is becoming a team built to create turnovers.

  14. I’m curious what the thinking is when they criticize a specialist pick like Bruce Irvin because he won’t be on the field every down. Who cares if he’s only the the field for 20 plays if he’s having a consistent impact and affecting the QB?

    I like the tilt the field mentality as well as bucking convention in what they call a copy cat league; someone has to be copied.

    If it’s any consolation Chris Polk, assuming you’re available I’ll be drafting you with the third pick in the second round of my fantasy football rookie draft.

  15. When you look at helping out our offense – you have to look at the whole off-season, and in that respect, signing Flynn as a free agent, is basically the same as drafting a QB in a high round.

    So, while we didn’t add to the WR group (which I’ll slightly disagree w/some posters here – I think we should have added someone to the group, given the number of questions we have there), we did add Flynn and Wilson at QB, and Turbin, who seems to be a perfect fit for what we needed to back up Marshawn.

  16. Also, I think Sando’s assessment that Seattle is hoping for better production out of their QB and better luck with injury is accurate. And why wouldn’t they, they aren’t unreasonable expectations.

    Finally I don’t think enough attention has been paid to Bruce Irvin being a fictional character from that fighting video game Tekken. HIYAHHH!

  17. RDPoulsbo says:

    Check out this photo of Turbin:

    That dude looks like he can dish out some nasty stiff arms.

  18. Dukeshire says:

    The concern with Polk is shoulder. Clearly, teams didn’t feel comfortable regarding his health. I always questioned the second round grade regardless, 4th or 5th seemed more accurate to me. So while I’m a bit surprised someone didn’t spend a pick on him, I don’t think it’s a complete shock either.

    Regarding Kelly, another reason Seattle hasn’t forgotten this is a passing league: they drafted the best pure pass-rusher in this year’s draft. They clearly realize if you don’t get after the passer, you don’t win consistently.

  19. Dukeshire says:

    Good lord. The Hulk, indeed.

  20. NWPoseidon says:

    Who else has a backfield made up of The Beast and The Hulk?? Seriously. If that does not strike fear into opposing teams hearts, then they are masochists.

  21. chuck_easton says:

    I’m in favor of Seattle unning the Power I this year.

    Robinson leading the way with both Beast and Hulk lined up behind him.

    Now that’s ball control offense!

  22. I am still really confused (concerned) about how the twins approach the QB position. They don’t really have a plan – and for some reason they think you can plug in any old dude and win.

    Baltimore has proven that for years – they got lightening in a bottle one time and then flame out in the play-offs every year. a Solid Defense is needed but it won’t always propel you to the championship weekends or super bowl –

    If your QB can’t take advantage of what the defense is giving you then you will have problems in the play-offs.

    When JS even says they don’t have a long term plan for the QB position – that scares the heck out of me.

    look at the moves they have made
    Whitehurst – no explanation needed
    Jackson – better than above – they speak confidence in him – we go 7-9 AGAIN then they pick up 2 players to compete with him
    Flynn – the sign him but immediately say the job is Tjacks to lose and it will be a competition
    Wilson – This is the one thing that helmet head says that is probably true. If any 5-10 guy can make it this guy can . . . BUT IMO there is a reason there is worries about a short QB in this league.

    They don’t seem to have a plan or a concept about what they want to move forward for more than 1 season. I don’t think you can win or win consistently in the NFL if you don’t have a QB you can count on for the long run.

  23. Dukeshire says:

    Presuming Seattle isn’t behind by multiple scores heading into the 4th quarter terribly often, I’ll be very interested to see where they rank in rushing yards in the 4th quarter, at seasons end. The size of their O-Line and Lynch and Turbin will have to simply wear defenses down by the 4th. It ought to be a thing of beauty to watch.

  24. ruminator1 says:

    i’d be interested to hear comments on Poole, the tennesee rb. did any of you guys who recommended turbine look at Poole? i read somewhere that he was approached by the hawks after thd draft to be udfa, but that he switched to another team. but i think the 2 are similar

  25. We signed a few UFA WRs and I trust the twins can find talent that others have overlooked so we may still get a boost to the WR corp. Also there is still the cuts coming that often can produce some surprising opportunities to add talent. Although I am a little worried about the OL I am feeling more confident this year than last year and love our QB and LB corps. We are in for some very exciting games.

  26. xcman, I agree with the apparent lack of a “plan” but would also say that they have made great strides this year in turning their attention to the QB position.

    Before they signed Flynn I would say that they didn’t appear to have a plan but also did not give the QB position the attention it deserves. After pursuing Manning, signing Flynn and Wilson, they are giving it attention now. So it’s a big step forward IMO.

    You could probably say that every team who doesn’t currently have a franchise QB is approaching it in a trial and error fashion. Because that is all you can do really. But there is a difference in how many resources you put into the position. They do seem to be putting resources into the position now.

    Anybody ever listen to that Solomon Wilcotts (sp?) guy? In the Ruskell area he was always ragging on Ruskell for how he committed his resources (Branch, Housh, etc.). Turned out he was right. Lots of resources were spent on dead ends and the wrong areas (linebackers f.e.). So to me the fact that they are committing resources to the QB position is good. And they didn’t go crazy like give up 4 years worth of #1 picks to get RGIII or something like that. We may now have a mini RGIII on the roster even!

    Somebody with a lot of time should really take a hard look at how they are committing resources relative to previous regimes. The hard money line on Hawthorne showed me where they stand. Pay core guys like Red and Lynch. Other guys you have to let go. Sounds Patriot-esque to me, and that’s good.

  27. GeorgiaHawk says:

    hawkfaninoklahoma – I thought that bleacherreport was spot on too! And yes I do take some bleacherreport articles seriously! To say you don’t would be like saying that you don’t take anyones opinion on this blog seriously. Lol.

  28. Oops meant to say you have to let other guys go if you can’t retain them at the right price. Didn’t mean to imply they didn’t like Hawthorne.

  29. Southendzone says:

    I’m OK with the Wilson pick even though I’m very skeptical of him being able to turn into an NFL starter. It’s part of Schneider’s MO, he will pick up a developmental QB almost every year.

    Since we’re not rock-solid at the position I’m OK with this and Tjack is not likely to be here in 2013 (Maybe even this year). Seneca was a decent back up and if Wilson can be the same or better it’s a good pick.

  30. RDPoulsbo says:

    As I’ve been saying, you can take it to the bank that T-Jack will be on the roster this year. Flynn has exactly 2 career starts under his belt. For as much as I like him, there’s no denying there is a significant unknown to him we’re about to find out about. If things go south, they’re not going to throw Wilson out there as a rookie. T-Jack is that veteran to keep the ship steady in case of a Flynn injury or collapse. They’re going to have Wilson as the scout QB while learning before he’s going to have a shot at being the #2 next year.

  31. Strategicdust says:

    I’ll be very curious to see how this draft turns out in three years but I’m looking forward to seeing how the new guys play this Fall. Overall, the draft left me feeling a little flat. Not quite as bad as when we used a draft pick on an injured long snapper but not excited either. I am left with some questions though.
    1. Even if defensive players may be higher rated on the board, shouldn’t you stretch some time for offense? I’m thinking of TE or OL in this case or perhaps even taking a 7th round chance on Chris Polk.
    2. It’s probably just me but it felt like Kuechly not dropping to the Seahawks threw the drafting order off quite a bit. Perhaps that was just me wanting him in this draft but if you have your LB already drafted, where would they have gone in the second round? It felt like Wagner was a “have to take” player more than a wanted one.
    3. As much as I liked watching Wilson play in college, I’m still left with a lot of doubts drafting him in the third round, especially with the QB talent coming up in next years draft and the talent that remained on the board. Is the commitment to Flynn that paper thin or do they just not trust what they have in back of him? Either way, not good.

    I’m hopeful this draft plays out well for the Seahawks, it will be fascinating to watch.

  32. NWPoseidon says:

    I strongly believe we will carry 4 QB this year. Flynn and Wilson guaranteed. Tavaris is already paid for and is more than an adequate backup and Portis has too much upside to cut this early, he will get snagged before landing on the practice squad. The exact same situation happened in NE when Brady was drafted. He was not good enough to be the 3rd stringer, but he potential was so great they had to keep him. The next year they were back to 3 QB, Bledsoe got hurt and Brady’s potential became stardom. Not saying Portis will be Brady, but you cannot give up on him this soon.

  33. Dukeshire says:

    GeorgiaHawk – It’s not that Bleacher Report is opinion driven. It’s that the vast majority of it articles are shallow and poorly written. Opinion without substance. Not all, but most. It’s not a legitimate news source, that’s all.

  34. just finished watching some game film of irvin…saying he is fast is an understatement – saying he is raw and will benefit from coaching and tutelidge from clemons is both accurate and exciting. his motor is absolutely nonstop; he chases the play from behind EVERY time, it’s glorious.

    the qb position is cluttered right now and i’m worried that with so many bodies there aren’t enough reps for anybody to develop. i guess the cream will rise, but it had better be a fast process. talk about competition…wow.

    turbin was a no brainer, hopefully he and marshawn both stay healthy. same with the o-line, that will be crucial.

    sidney ‘peanut brittle’ rice staying healthy is a pipe dream…lockette, tate, williams and durham had better come in to camp on a mission. include morrah to that list, he must reach his potential – i’m surprised that they didn’t draft a speedy tight end, they must believe in cam.

    the continued development of our young physical defense will be the joy of the preseason…it will hopefully take the pain away of watching the trainwreck offensive attack find its footing.

  35. NWPoseidon says:

    Our undrafted rookies rank pretty well. I believe I saw a list where the kicker was the #1 for kickers, kearse was the #1 WR and the oregon kid was #5, but I suspect that he will be moved to TE. Another strong undrafted rookie class would be awesome

  36. RDPoulsbo says:

    Strategicdust: They already have plenty invested in the offense to be needing to go there. Last year, 3 of the top 4 picks were offense, not to mention investing in free agents like Rice, Flynn, and Miller. I’m not sure why they would have wanted to draft Polk after they already went out and got Turbin. Plus, they did address OL in the 7th with Sweezy. They sent Cable on a visit to see if he could be converted to OL and he liked what he saw.

    Wilson is a real good prospect. Most people talk about him as a 1st round prospect if he were 3 inches taller. If Flynn fails, there’s always looking to the draft next year, but in terms of positions like WR, TE or even QB, there’s no point in drafting at those positions when the skill level is about the same as your current depth guys you’re already developing.

  37. HawkyHann says:

    RD Poulsbo- I too hope everyone”stays” healthy. I trust Cable’s system more than I do the players. I believe its plug and play, but all the Oline players drafted in past two years worry me. Especially Okung. Love him when healthy. Hopefully the injury bug wont happen this season.

  38. I hope you guys are wrong about Tjack being on the roster this year. However I think you are probably right that they will want to keep Tjack as a security blanket.

    Wilson learned Wisconsin’s offense in less than 3 weeks and became the immediate starter. That’s almost unheard of. So with this particular kid I think there is a chance he may learn it fast enough that they can let Tjack go. It’s probably a small chance that he can learn it that fast realistically. but I really think that if Carroll and Bevell feel he can handle it, they could put Wilson in that second string spot behind Flynn. Guys like Carroll and Harbaugh are not afraid to throw younger untested guys out there if they think they are ready.

    Personally I think if Wilson learns the offense fast enough that he can be confident, he could produce as many wins in a backup role as Tjack would. The guy had a 197 passer rating last year. He’s incredibly accurate (over 72% last year), makes good decisions, and is a good leader. He threw for 33 TDs and ran for 6 more. He’s just short. But really we are all looking into our crystal balls and won’t know anything for sure about how they stack up for a roster spot until the end of the preseason.

  39. sidney ‘peanut brittle’ rice – pretty good

  40. jchawks08 says:

    As a fan of guns (not bang bang guns) Turbin wins any gun show and it’s not even close. I’d like to see a flex off between Turbin and Shaun Alexander. Or Carlton Gray. Remeber that guy? Weakest NFL player ever, perhaps.
    Anyway… As a passionate UW fan, my heart breaks a bit for Polk. All he ever did for UW was give 110% everygame and make about 5 runs a game that made me jump off the couch and cheer for him to take it to the house. Dude runs, catches, blocks, and has a high football IQ. I don’t get it.
    Chris Polk, here’s to you running dominately with a chip on your shoulders (hopefully uninjured shoulders) for the next 8-10 years. Do your thing, brother.

  41. ruminator1 says:

    well i will ask it again–have any of you who endorsed Turbin looked at film or watched games of the tennessee rb tauren Poole? not saying he would have been better than Turbin but he seems very similar to me. and he was almost added as udfa.

  42. Our OL is a crap shoot until we can get 14-16 games with the same guys together and then we can know what we actually have in any of these players.

    I really think I like the idea of Okung, Moffit, Carpentar, and Unger forming the line (yes I know I am missing one) But honestly I can’t be sure since we hardly ever have gotten to see them play at this level.

    My biggest wish is a relatively healthy season!

  43. ruminator1 – moot point right?

  44. chuck_easton says:


    He was ‘almost’ here. And I ‘almost’ won the lottery. But Poole isn’t here and my bank account is still missing several zeros.

    We are happy about Turbin because he IS here. An RB in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

  45. HawkyHann says:

    XCman- we might never get 14-16 games with same the unit.. Have no idea why we have such bad luck staying healthy but hoping that streak ends. Russell is the most important.

  46. HawkyHann – agreed – that is why I am not comfortable with this group. They sure have POTENTIAL but at some point that has to become reality or you have to move on (IMO)

  47. Check out these #s

    Yards TD INT % Rating
    Wilson 3,175 33 4 72.8 191.8
    Luck 3,517 37 10 71.30% 169.7
    RGIII 3,998 36 6 72.40% 192.3
    Tanneh. 3,744 29 15 61.6 133.2

  48. Let’s try that again. Hope this is readable. In order of pass %


  49. ruminator1 says:

    moot point maybe, but apparently they wanted him here and he was the one who switched. so i found that interesting. my question was had any of the people who so strongly wanted Turbin looked at Poole. people raise questions all the time on here about people who might have been drafted or who were better choices. i was just impressed with what i saw. i am happy about Turbin as well but that doesn’t mean i shouldn’t wonder about someone else. same thing with Wilson. maybe all the zeros aren’t in your bank account Chuck.

  50. RDPoulsbo says:

    Okung is frustrating because before he came to Seattle, he had literally zero injury issues. Some of those injuries, you can’t blame on him like an idiot guard no longer on the team missing a cut block and instead dives at his knees while engaged. Not to mention the cheap shot that took him out last year. I think he’ll be fine as long as people play by the rules.

    They’re not going to start the season full strength with Carp’s ACL timeline putting him into October at the earliest and Moffitt’s adderall costing him 4 games. Still, there’s too much invested in these guys to be knee-jerk and spend high resources to be replacing them so quickly.

  51. chuck_easton says:

    Moffitt served his 4 game suspension last year while on IR. A loophole in the rules, but perfectly legal.

    If he’s fully healthy, he’s here from day one.

  52. RDPoulsbo says:

    Good to know…I thought at least part of the suspension was going to carry over into the coming year. From what PC has said, everyone on the line besides Carp are healed and ready for OTAs.

  53. Speaking of unique talent, how about the Carson Wiggs (UDFA)signing.

    I guess they call him “Wiggy Bank” cause he’s money.

  54. Dukeshire says:

    People may not want to see Jackson on the roster in ’12, but they may as well get used to it; he will to be. He’s the only QB on the roster with any real game experience (Flynn’s 2 starts aside). There really is zero chance they release him and rely on Wilson / Portis to backup Flynn.

  55. I am glad Seattle seems happy with thier offensive roster. At least, I will be as long as they are much improved this year…All our WR’s have talent: BMW had a great year two years ago, Rice has proven he’s a very good WR when healthy, Baldwin is money and only going to get better with experience, Obomanu is solid if unspectacular, Tate is atheltic as can be and seems to be improving–FINALLY!, and Durham and Lockette should really start to step up this season. And of course there’s poor Deon Butler, who will make some team a very good slot receiver, but is not likely to make the Hawks.

    Even if BMW has lost a step and gets cut, even if we end up dumping Butler, it will be okay: if Butler gets cut it means Tate stepped up and Baldwin solidified his hold on the slot, and if both go it likely means Durham and/or Lockette are ready to start.

    Of course, a crowded WR corps with so many question marks is not exactly ideal, and surely isnt a gaurantee of success. Injuries could wipe us out, but thats true no matter what you do.

    The line worries me more, as McQ seemed to be a better LT than LG, and Moffitt and Lutui are question marks.

    I think Rice is a lock at least for this year, as is Baldwin. I think Tate makes the team. I dont see any way Butler makes the team unless he learns to be far more physical. If he can outplay the others at FL, maybe he can stick, but I dont think it will happen. He’s a slot WR, and we have Tate and Baldwin as I said. Durham, BMW, and Lockette are fighting for 2-3 spots on the team.

    This could turn out bad, but as I said I am glad to hear Seattle trusts thier offensive roster to be much improved this year. If only Carp hadnt tore up his knee so late in the year…Boy, I sure hope Carrol and Schneiders faith in these guys is warranted.

    And I bet you Toomer contributes a lot this year at LB, and especially on Special Teams. Wagner and Turbin will also help a lot. Who knows about the rest of the crew, but that DT from Florida might end up helping as a rotational dude too.

    And Bruce Irvin?! Shoot, dude’s gonna wipe it down…

  56. Macabrevity says:

    Just a thought off the top of my head concerning our injury bug…. has anyone seen anything on different types of turf and injury ratios? No idea if it’s a factor or not in our case, but we do seem to have pretty bad luck.

  57. If they’re going to keep TJ, Portis is gone because there’s no way we’re going to release a 3rd round pick. If they keep Portis through camp, it’s kinda making a mockery of the competition thing.

    I think TJ is gone because:

    1. That eliminates the potential for QB controversy inside the locker room.
    2. They’ll give Flynn and/or Wilson plenty of experience for 2013, if nothing else.

  58. Don’t know if the majority of you already saw this, but I thought it was very intriguing. It was supposed to be highlights of Bruce Irvin, but turns out to showcase him going up against our other controversial pick in Russell Wilson. Irvin gets a couple of sacks and a FF, but look at the poise of RW…and also how relentless BI is as well. This is also the Bowl game from the previous season, so both had an entire season to hone their skills. Enjoy!

  59. ryanryan says:

    the wr corps has by far the most question marks, a scary group. worst case there is no clear winners and the coaches flip a few coins or play rock/paper/scissors for the last couple of spots…frightening really. of course, there is a lot to cheer for…potential out the yin-yang.

  60. I don’t think they need to run out and replace them just yet. All I am saying is that until they can play some consistent time together that we will not be able to know what we have in them.

    also, I thought for some reason that Moffits suspension was actually served last year – I remember there being some abnormality that he was allowed to serve it last season.

  61. STTBM -but that DT from Florida might end up helping as a rotational dude too

    Only on the OL – they have already said they are using him as an OG.

  62. SandpointHawk says:

    rgbuckl…thanks great clip, I didn’t know who to root for…

  63. Okay – after the draft – who will be the starting LB’s?

    Wagner has never played inside in a 4-3 played a will – (Hills spot I think)

    Just curious

  64. raymaines says:

    Clayton is on the radio right now and thinks there is a reasonable chance T-Jack could be the odd man out. Portis would have to be lights out, but it’s not impossible. That would be a scary back up situation.

  65. Yes – yes it would!

  66. Dukeshire says:

    xcman – Actually, Wagner played every position at LB. I was watching different clips of him over the weekend, and they had him at Will, Sam (on the line and off, both), and both interior positions. But it’s true, Utah St runs a 3-4, however he did primarily play inside on the strong side in that base. And in Carroll’s under, it’s a similar Mike alignment.

  67. xcman–I was talking about Jaye Howard the DT, not Sweezy the ex-DT soon to be G.

    rgbuckl–I watched that video, and I thought both players were awesome! Irvin over-ran some plays, but his speed was insane, and he wasnt afraid to mix it up with the big guys, though he did look overmatched when engaged by lineman. I was REALLY impressed with Wilson, he was under attack every play, but scrambled to buy time to set up and throw, rather than running for daylight downfield. He would duck out of three sacks before turning upfield.

    I also noticed how hard his passes were, and how accurate–he was fitting those balls in some pretty tight windows. And his WR’s dropped at least 4 passes that game, yet he went right back at them.

    I dont think Ive ever seen a DE get such consistent pressure, nor a qb so good at eluding said pressure. Wilsons ability to buy time and penchant for finding an open WR rather than running was really exciting to see.

    I Cant wait to see them both in preseason!

  68. Portis may be kept on the practice squad, since its likely that if Jackson plays even slightly better than last year–or if Flynn struggles–they will keep him to backup Flynn. That is, IF Portis plays okay and then makes it through waivers.

    Still, Id rather have too many qb’s than not enough. If Portis looks good then I’d rather lose Jackson than him. We know what we have in Jackson, and it isnt good enough.

  69. HawkfaninMT says:

    A couple of questions for the peanut gallery…

    Is T-Jacks 4M guaranteed for this year? If he is cut is any money saved?

    Duke, did you do the comparisons between Irvin and Matthews you had mentioned? I am curious to hear your findings

  70. tchristensen says:

    I might agree with AUDIBLE. If both Flynn and Wilson have good pre-seasons the front office could look to trade Jackson and save 4 million. Who knows. Does anyone else find it interesting they signed what appears to be an excellent UFDA field goal kicker when Hauschka has yet to sign his tender.?

  71. Dukeshire says:

    HawkfaninMT – Just a bit. I’ll post something this week, for those interested.

    STTBM – I’m not sure Portis has any PS eligibility. I believe he has an accrued season now, which according to the new CBA is either active or inactive for six or more games, for a season.

  72. raymaines says:

    Oakland is working out Matt Leinart and Jim Sorgi:

    How much nicer to have one too many QB’s than one too few.

  73. Has anyone heard of the hawks signing FB Stampley LSU or OT Lawrence Miss.St.?

  74. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    rgbuck, great tape on both, wilson looks real good in his decision making. i notice irvin is raw incredible but much to learn. i didnt see him use his cross step once in that film. sure saw the speed thou, year of coaching this guy should be seeing a probowl. funny thing if they start doubling him you can always corner blitz off his side to keep them honest.

  75. grizindabox24 says:

    osbrey, I believe Stampley has been invited to tryout.

    tchristensen, Who would trade for TJax?, I see TJax on the roster all season.

  76. Sarcasticus says:


    I remember Poole going over a 100 yards against Alabama in 2010 that broke a streak of like 4 years. Seemed he always ran tough on the Tide. Not a whole lot of wiggle, but he hits the hole hard.

  77. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    raiders would probably give a first griz

  78. grizindabox24 says:

    hawkfan, do the Raiders have any available first rounders left?

  79. tchristensen says:

    Duke, When is the first mini-camp? Thanks!

  80. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    lmao i dont know i have several raiders fans for friends i will ask.

  81. Dukeshire says:

    Rookie mini starts May 11.

  82. Dukeshire says:

    Sarcasticus – that is impressive. But if we’re doing an apples to apples comparison, Turbin is bigger, a little faster, showed more consistency in the passing game, and showed improvement each season. Poole may be the next Airan Foster, for all I know. Lol. But I like Turbin’s style and think he’s the better compliment to Lynch, just from what I saw.

  83. Schneider was part of what happened in Green Bay when Favre “retired” and they turned the team over to Aaron Rogers.

    Rogers basically had no real NFL experience (as Favre continued his streak). He was like Matt Flynn today, with relatively little NFL playing time. I think Flynn has more NFL experience today than Rogers had before he took over.

    The Packers also backed up the inexperienced Rogers with two rookies. Even though they thought Rogers was going to be “the man,” I don’t think they knew for sure. Or else why would they take Brian Brohm in the 2nd round if they already knew they had their QB of the future? Not only did they draft Brohm, but they also drafted Matt Flynn late in the draft.

    If you want to talk about a team going into a season with no experience at QB, this is it! And Schneider was part of it.

    I think the Seahawks think Flynn is going to be the man (or they wouldn’t have signed him) but they don’t know for sure so they added Wilson. I know Rogers was a former 1st round pick and Flynn wasn’t, but at the same time, the Seahawks have also invested almost $10 million in guaranteed money to Flynn (which means, like a former 1st round draft pick, they have invested more than just a little in him). That tells me they are going to give him a shot (start this season). And if he doesn’t pan out, they are going to have Wilson waiting in the wings. Kind of like when the Packers expected to have Brohm waiting in the wings if that Rogers guy didn’t work out the way they expected him to.

    I never really thought of this possible scenario until reading a few of your comments above. I assumed T-Jack would still be a lock, but Mr. Happy isn’t afraid to go young, that’s for sure. If Wilson plays great this off-seasn and training camp, they may just let him do this year what the Packers let Matt Flynn do about 4-5 years ago (be a rookie #1 back-up to an inexperienced starter).

    I also like the comment above about how not having T-Jack would eliminate any division in the locker room about who would start. If you’ve ever coached before, you know you want your guys on the same page and the QB position is one you never want players to take sides on (although I’m not a football coach). That and the fact that T-Jack makes about $3 million more than he should, IMO (if he’s the back-up). At the same time, I’m probably the last guy anyone should listen to about T-Jack not being on the team b/c I’ll admit I have an almost irrational hope that he’s never my starting QB ever again.

  84. freedom_X says:

    Given the conservative nature of the Seattle offense (run oriented) and a strong defense – that’s the recipe to break in a young QB if you’re going to throw them into action immediately.

    Perhaps the high emphasis on defense is to make it possible for them to bring a young QB along immediately. Less pressure to keep up in a scoring match, or having to come back from 14 down can help a inexperienced QB as much or more than spending some 3rd or 4th round picks on wide receivers in a weak receiving class.

    More young players on offense wouldn’t necessarily boost the O this season. The jury’s out whether this organization can judge offensive talent as well as defensive talent in the draft.

  85. raymaines says:

    In about four months, on Friday Aug. 24th, Seattle plays preseason game #3 against KC and all of this will be pretty clear by the end of the game. If not then, certainly by Labor Day.


    July 22: Deadline for unsigned UFA to sign with new clubs.

    July 22: Deadline for transition players to sign with new clubs.

    Late July: Training camps across the league begin.

    Aug. 4: Hall of Fame enshrinement ceremony

    Aug. 5: Hall of Fame Game: Arizona vs. New Orleans, Canton, Ohio, 8 p.m. ET

    Aug. 9: Preseason: Green Bay at San Diego, 8 p.m. ET (ESPN)

    Aug. 13: Preseason: Dallas at Oakland, 8 p.m. ET (ESPN)

    Aug. 20: Preseason: Philadelphia at New England, 8 p.m. ET (ESPN)

    Aug. 23: Preseason: Arizona at Tennessee, 8 p.m. ET (ESPN)

    Aug. 28: Roster cutdown to 80 players

    Sept. 2: Roster cutdown to 53 players.

  86. Dukeshire says:

    Bobby – That’s interesting about Rodgers and the Pack drafting QBs behind him. I hadn’t thought of that…

  87. freedom_X says:

    I do believe though that the Packers drafting QB’s despite having Rodgers is part of their “value” philosophy. If they see QB’s that they rank as value bargains (much higher ranking on their draft board than the actual draft position in question) they would take them regardless.

    If this is also Schneider’s philosophy, which I believe to be the case, I’d guess that Russell Wilson was ranked as a high 2nd round or even a 1st round talent on the Seattle draft board.

  88. Soggybuc says:

    I heard some guy from Green bay Roger Aarons or something like that had some good things to say about Flynn. but It’s doubtful he knows very much about QB’s

    Tauren Poole makes my inner Geek happy, I’ll be pulling for him to make the Panther squad.

  89. Soggy – Some of the best players have made terrible coaches (Mike Singletary) and GMs (Matt Millen). I’d take a midget like John Schneider who would have gotten killed playing in the NFL any day over a former All-Pro and 4-time Super Bowl winner like Matt Millen as the GM of my favorite team. Just b/c a great player says something like that about, no less, a friend, I wouldn’t take that as gospel. That being said, I think/hope Rogers is right.

  90. Dukeshire says:

    Here’s a brief but good blurb on Irvin, from Matt Bowen at NFP.

  91. Bobby I agree with you the GM front 100% but I view the Rodgers comment as different. This is not someone watching tape and making a guess on if he can play but this is someone who worked very closely with Flynn on a daily basis. Aaron got 90% of the reps sure but he saw the work ethic, the ability to break down film etc.
    Flynn is NOT going to throw for almost 500 yards and 6 TD’s. he doesnt have too. give me half that production and we are going to win while he also feeds the Hulking Beast mode.

    Some are viewing Flynn’s acceptance of the “competition” as a sign he is unsure of himself. Balderdash! He knows what he faces in TJ. watched up close a few times. he knows he is better than TJ and will beat him out for the starter job.
    Also having Marbert Lynurbin is going to make the job easy for him.

  92. Macabrevity says:

    I agree the WR group could go North or South pretty quick… but I’m surprised everyone is counting BMW out. He doesn’t get open, but he doesn’t need to. Hass was able to use that, T-Jack and others (CBJ is now referred to as ‘others’) weren’t. I’ve seen Flynn make a lot of nice opposite shoulder throws to covered receivers. I really think he’ll be able to use him as a target, assuming the big guy is in shape and ready to roll. Someone here made a comment about it being a shame he doesn’t convert to TE – I totally agree on that point. Blocking isn’t an issue, he’d be a good receiving TE.

  93. Macabrevity says:

    Soggybuc – I agree with you on Flynn’s acceptance of the coaches ‘stated’ policy. QB’s have to be pretty politically correct or they get ripped apart by fans and media. Flynn looks like he has the political savvy that makes up one of the lesser requirements of the position.

  94. Sarcasticus says:

    I prefer Turbin as well, from what little I have seen of him. Poole always just annoyed me. Nothing special here.

  95. RDPoulsbo says:

    Yeah, QBs in today’s game are just as much media managers as they are football players. Even RG3 is talking about having to win the starting job over Rex Grossman. Uh huh…like that’s going to be hard. It’s going to be very difficult for T-Jax to win the starting job over Flynn just because of the contract he was given. Basically, Flynn will have to come in and fall flat on his face for that to happen. Still, no matter how many scenarios T-Jax’s detractors come up with that see him cut, they are about as realistic as me getting a roster spot on the team. His contract is guaranteed and has by far more experience than any other QB on the roster. Moves like that are what get you the 1st pick in the draft and your entire front office and coaching staff fired.

  96. BobbyK says:

    I don’t believe Jackson signed a 2-year guaranteed contract, as you insinuate.

  97. Dukeshire says:

    Well, that’s also a rookie coming into the league. Fastest way to get unmercifully hazed, is to start bumping your gums about veteran players, no matter what the reality is.

  98. chuck_easton says:


    TJack’s 2012 contract is only guaranteed if he is on the opening day roster. If for any reason he is released prior to camp (not saying one way or another if this will happen) the team owes him nothing.

    I don’t even recall a signing bonus that would count against this year’s cap.

  99. RDPoulsbo says:

    Remember that Holmgren went on a much further limb when he signed Hasselbeck, but even he made sure there was a hedge in place by signing Dilfer as well. Good thing for him too, because he would have surely been fired long before taking Seattle to a Superbowl if he had to go to Brock Huard when Hass started sucking.

    Bottom line: When you start a rookie or any inexperience QB, you ALWAYS keep a veteran backup behind him if you like your job. When you don’t, you end up with the 1st pick in the draft.

    Portis is the camp fodder this year. When guys like Kellen Moore go undrafted, you know the pool of QBs is deep enough that there’s not going to be any interest in a guy who had to go to 3 different schools.

  100. RD – go back above where I proved you wrong about that. When Rogers went into the season as the starter in Green Bay, with Schneider on board, all Packer QBs (Rogers, Flynn, Brohm) all had a total of zero combined NFL starts. They didn’t end up with the #1 pick in the draft either, did they? I agree that conventional wisdom suggests you are right, but one thing that this regime has proven is that they are unconventional, no?

  101. RDPoulsbo says:

    I might be wrong about the contract being guaranteed, but I stand by my statement that T-Jax will be on the roster nonetheless. The Packers situation is a little different because Rodgers was in their system for 3 years before he got his shot. Even the year before, the organization was confident that he’d become the starter. There are exceptions to the rule like GB, but I doubt it will be the case this year in Seattle. There are still too many unknowns with Flynn to put that much faith in his success. T-Jax will be gone at the end of the year, but that will be after they are sufficiently satisfied with the 2 guys they acquired this year.

  102. In reality I do agree with you that T-Jack will be on the roster, but I wouldn’t be shocked anymore if he wasn’t. A couple of days ago I would have said there’s 100% chance that he’d be on the opening day roster but now I’m not that sure (maybe 75%).

    Flynn has been on a roster with similar training for the offense. Granted, it’s not the exact same offense w/Bevell, but it’s close enough to think he can handle the load.

    It will be interesting to watch, that’s for sure.

  103. leroyjamis says:

    I found these podcasts on the Seattle Seahawks 2012 draft class insightful…

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