Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Draft needs

Post by Eric Williams on April 12, 2012 at 7:28 am with 67 Comments »
April 12, 2012 7:28 am
Seahawks linebacker K.J. Wright, right, works against the offense at the Seahawks practice facility in Renton, Thursday, Aug. 18, 2011. (Joe Barrentine/Staff photographer)

With just two weeks remaining, Pete Prisco of CBS Sports takes a closer look at the Seattle Seahawks draft needs heading into this year’s draft.

Prisco evaluates Seattle’s needs at each position, and has this to say about Seattle’s situation at linebacker.

Prisco: This is the real weak spot on the roster. K.J. Wright, who started 12 games as a rookie, is the only linebacker on the roster who started for Seattle last season. He has a chance to be a really good player. The Seahawks lost middle linebacker David Hawthorne to the Saints in free agency, but signed Barrett Ruud to replace him. That’s a step down. Ruud is just OK. The other spot should be a battle between Adrian Moten and others. I expect the Seahawks to spend an early pick on a linebacker, maybe even in the first round.”

Clare Farnsworth of says the team is a more focused group with head coach Pete Carroll and general manager John Schneider working their third draft together.

Kevin Acee of the San Diego Union Tribune reports that fullback Jacob Hester visited the Seahawks on Wednesday.

Howard Balzer of the Sports Xchange reports that QB Kevin O’Connell had a tryout with Seattle.

ESPN’s Mike Sando puts Pete Carroll at No. 2 in the NFC West behind Arizona’s Ken Whisenhunt in terms of coaching hot seat.

Peter Schrager of Fox Sports has Seattle selecting North Carolina defensive end Quinton Coples in his latest mock draft.

ESPN’s Todd McShay offers a couple different scenarios for Seattle at No. 12, including Coples, Boston College linebacker Luke Kuechly, Stanford’s David DeCastro and Notre Dame’s Michael Floyd.

Jack Bechta of the National Football Post writes an interesting article on the value of regional scouts and efficiently run scouting departments.

Chad Reuter of takes a look at potential targets for draft-day trades in the upcoming draft.

Les Carpenter of Yahoo Sports has an interesting story on West Virginia defensive end Bruce Irwin, a high school dropout caught up in the drug game who managed to turn his life around.

More Prisco: Nebraska LB Levonte David tops his list of most underrated players heading into the draft.

Mike Garafolo of the Newark Star-Ledger reports former Seahawks Sean Locklear has signed with the Giants.

Morning links
Leave a comment Comments → 67
  1. I dont want Kuechly, because unless there’s a LB who looks to be LT all over again, a guaranteed HOF’er, I dont even want to hear about taking a LB that high. Remember Curry, whom EVERYONE had picked as a sure-fire HOF’er. That same draft had four or five other LB’s taken in the first two rounds who did far better than Curry.

    I would prefer to get a lB in the second round, like Mychal Kendricks, Lavonte David, or a couple other fast dudes projected to go in the second.

  2. HawkfaninMT says:

    Just starting to read through the links but a thought crossed my mind. When free agency began, anytime an FA would visit Seattle it was big news and must sign etc… Even if it wasn’t a big name guy, I obviously understand the furvor(sp?) of Flynn visiting.

    Why isn’t a bigger deal made now about Hester visiting and Franklin visiting? We tend to find out about these after the fact.

    Wandering mind in these news lean times!

  3. Dukeshire says:

    Come on now, there isn’t a player that’s ever been drafted that’s “a guaranteed HOF’er”, especially Curry. Kuechly and Curry have nothing to do with with another. In fairness, it’s not Kuechly’s fault Ruskell was a moron. Kuechly is an every down player (Curry was not), who is every bit as athletic as Curry, only Kuechly plays with intelligence, discipline, and is a tackling machine. IMO, he is a real possibility at 12.

  4. Dukeshire says:

    HawkfaninMT – Maybe if Devon Hester visited there would be a buzz…

    Sando listing NFC West coaches on the “hot seat” is really lame. Let’s see: Fisher hasn’t coached a game yet. Harbaugh is entering his second season, after making the playoffs. Carroll, who’s on the second hottest seat apparently, is entering his third, just coming out of a complete franchise re-build, while having a playoff win on his short resume, and then Whisenhunt, who works for one of the most inept ownership groups in professional sports. Even compiling the list is idiotic, at this stage. Come on Mike, you’re better than that.

  5. HawkfaninMT–For myself, so many guys have come to visit or were invited but never showed, then signed elsewhere that Im not getting too worked up.

    Plus, Mike Rob is our FB. Hester is a decent FB, but not good enough to backup Lynch. Therefore Im not super excited about him, because we really dont need him. Now, if Robinson wasnt our FB, I’d be pretty stoked.

    Franklin is just a depth guy to replace Hargrove’s spot on the roster. I think Hargrove is a far better player than Franklin, so Im not real thrilled there either. I suppose Jones was really Hargrove’s replacement, and Franklin may be more likely to backup Branch or Mebane, but you get my point. He isnt an upgrade, merely the crumb thats left when the cake’s all gone.

  6. Mike Mayock seems to be high on Kuechly:

    Whenever I see a LB going through the combine drills, it sickens me, because I think about Curry and how athletic he looked.

    However, it’s true, as Duke says, that we shouldn’t let the Curry debacle affect how we feel about Kuechly. After all, Cam Newton was more of a questionable No. 1 pick than JaMarcus Ruskell and we know how that turned out.

  7. RDPoulsbo says:

    I’d prefer Coples over Kuechly, but I wouldn’t be disappointed if they did draft him. You cannot even begin to compare Curry to Kuechly. Kuechly is a Mike LB, not a Sam like Curry. A middle LB in a 4-3 is your defensive QB and top tackler on the team. If either one of these is not true, then your defense has a serious problem. Meanwhile, the Sam is arguably the least critical position on defense. Besides, his strength comes primarily from his smarts and instincts. Something Curry never had.

  8. JazBadAzz says:

    That Jacob Hester visit is really interesting, it seems like a log jam at rb/fb. SD got a contract on the table and has a deadline for Monday for him to sign it. I read that he said something to the fact that it didn’t matter by Friday, I got a visit this week. What did he mean? Could he be willing to sign here? Did JS offer a better contrat, does Pete want Robinson some competition, we love competition!

    Go ahead and sign Franklin to a 1 yr deal and let the battle begin. It also throws off other teams that trys to zero in on who we’re taking. Gives us more flexibilty to draft BPA.

    That O’connely QB was a good accrurate strong arm kid, what happened to him???

    I don’t see Pete being on the hot seat in no form or fashion but in the context of Sando’s post, he is the second seat due to the fact that Fisher was just hired, Harpuke just west to the nfc champ game, and then it leaves us and whinehunt. My question is, why is the seat considered out? I guess everyone has a job to do…

  9. I detest Ruskell, but I give him (mostly) a pass on Curry. Everyone thought we got a steal at 4, that he was gonna be a great one. The scouts should have realized that Curry was Duplo and his college defense was tailored to minimize his lack of instincts and coverage ability. But Seattle wasnt the only team fooled.

    I just dont see Kuechly as being so much better than guys that should be available in the second round. We’re not competing for a Super Bowl this year, I dont care what Carrol says. We dont have to draft for need at 12, they should get the guy that will make the biggest impact on the team long-term. And I dont think thats Kuechly.

    I think we’ll be fine with a second or third round LB at MLB and OLB. I’d rather see them take a risk on a player with huge upside at 12 than go for a safe pick with less upside (Coples, if they really like him). Or take a guy like DeCastro who seems like an instant upgrade to all our G’s, and has the potential to make us all forget about the Ice Fisherman.

    Im tired of having an O-line with issues, its been six years now! With Carpenter a huge question mark and Moffitt rehabbing, I dont see how we can pass on him or Reiff if one of them is available. I dont care how many high picks it takes, its time to fix this line once and for all. The offense only goes as far as the line takes it, thats been proven time and again here in Seattle.

    I like Floyd too, and if he’s there, depending on who else is there, I wouldnt mind us nabbing him. Plus, it would piss off the Tardinals and Bears etc.

  10. RDPoulsbo says:

    Yeah, I don’t think Franklin or Hester are that exciting. Franklin doesn’t fit in anywhere and I’d just rather have McCoy learn FB to play in an emergency.

    The Sando post looks like filler in a down time of the year. I’m sure we’ll see the other ESPN bloggers do the same. It’s really not worth the time though.

    Seattle may want to move down, but I don’t see any players other teams will want to give up picks to go up and get at 12. I don’t see a trade there.

  11. HawkfaninMT says:

    Yeah I wasn’t trying to make it seem as though I am overly excited about them either. Just thought it was curious that, during this down time, these potentially news worthy visits fly under the radar as we discuss the upcoming Seahawks Draft Party.

    Back to your regularly scheduled “Who should we take at 12?” debate!

    For the record today I am an Upshaw fan at 12

  12. I hate the idea of a LB in the 1st round (unless he can rush the passer). All those years we thought we had the best LBs and that got us nowhere (Lofa, Hill, Peterson and then Curry). I like Smith at Will, Ruud may not be overly good, but he’s not a Black Hole that some think either at Mike, and Wright is good and getting better.

  13. Sando was just listing the NFCW by how they would be ranked as of now. Since the context of his article was that the NFCW was no longer considered a hot seat conference by the Dilfer et al, discussion.

    I agree that Pete would be “on notice” if he comes up with another losing record and no post season, considering his NFL history. You just have to define what “on notice” means. To me it says if it happens again in 2013 you are on the hot seat for sure. A 2012 losing season is the notice, the 2013 season would be the warning “impending action at hand” going into his contract year.

  14. I am fine with Kuechly or DeCastro at 12, but prefer they address the pass rush with either

    1) a situational pass rusher to fill Raheem Brocks role. This would ideally be Whitney Mercilus. He could grow into becoming Chris Clemons replacement.

    2) An OLB who can play at the line of scrimmage, provide some pass rush and has enough strength to set the edge. This would ideally be Melvin Ingram. Courtney Upshaw is another guy who would fit this role, but I prefer Ingram as the more explosive athlete.

    I would stay away from Coples – his measuables are only average, his game tape is the proverbial mixed bag – he has bust written all over him. I would not be surprised to see him drop into the 20’s.

  15. I don’t know how anybody saw enough out of Malcom Smith to think that he can do anything other than get injured or play special teams.

    Ruud is whatever – he is (IMO) a step down from Hawthorne, but not horrible either.

    Really, the way the roster sits rigt now, you would have to think that the Seahawks will bring in 3 or 4 linebackers through the draft or FA.

  16. JazBadAzz says:

    Sttmb- you make a compelling argument about that offensive line. I would have peace at heart if I knew the line was a strength and not question marks, from injury or match ups eash week. But you just never know, no matter who you draft if they can stay healthy.

  17. HawkfaninMT says:

    @ blocis: While I agree Ingram seems more explosive at the snap, the competitivenss, size, and nasty demeanor of upshaw has me leaning towards him more. He could be the LB that becomes Brock on passing downs. Scheme versatility and intensity seem to be high on Pete’s list of intangibles and Upshaw has these in spades.

    Upshaw in the 1st to fill LB need, and Brocks pass rushing spot, Irvin in the 3rd to eventually replace Clemmons… Sounds like a good plan for the future and the now to me

  18. RDPoulsbo says:

    The way I look at the 1st round is you want an immediate starter and preferably from one of the top 5 impact and costliest positions (QB, LT, DE, DT, CB). For that reason, I’d go with Coples or maybe Mercilus. I also see why they wouldn’t want to get jammed with 2 lower round rookie LBs starting so I have no problem with Kuechly. You might do well getting one starter, but it’s not easy to strike gold twice.

    Usually, I have some red flag guys in the 1st round, but thankfully, there’s little chance the Hawks will draft one this year. To me, Tannehill and Reiff have huge bust tags around their necks. Hopefully, the Cards continue their LT bust streak with Reiff.

  19. “I hate the idea of a LB in the 1st round (unless he can rush the passer). All those years we thought we had the best LBs and that got us nowhere (Lofa, Hill, Peterson and then Curry). I like Smith at Will, Ruud may not be overly good, but he’s not a Black Hole that some think either at Mike, and Wright is good and getting better.”

    Agree with all of that.

    With our 1st round pick – we either need to help the D with someone who can get after the QB, or help out Flynn with someone at a skill position. Either would be good by me.

  20. Canfan,

    Thanks for the link. Interesting stuff about Kuechly, but he nails my thoughts on Coples. He goes in depth on the subject, but sums it up with, “I wouldn’t touch Coples…”

  21. I also haven’t seen any tape on him that I like and also watched him in person at the Senior Bowl and wasn’t impressed there either.

  22. I am ready for some FOOTBALL! Seriously speaking though, the draft will be interesting! Nobody can tell what direction the Seahawks are going in.

    I do like several of the Seahawk FA pickups. I think the Hawks are thin at linebacker…but Rudd brings in experience as a starter and can still play the game well. He will be a great mentor for the linebacker corps! Do we need another mentor for the young linebackers? I still see that London Fletcher is available in free agency…sure…he is old (36)…but has been very productive over the last many years…just a thought…he could anchor a young team and still produce. The guy is a youngin at heart.

    Looking forward to getting the draft complete and see where we stand when all is said and done!

  23. Clare Farnsworth has an interesting interview with Schneider up on the Seahawks blog, which you guys probably saw – if not here it is –

    Schneider explains how their draft board is not really about need but is about BPA, and then he goes on too basically say its about need. Always amusing to hear GMs do that little dance every year. lol

  24. I know it’s getting old, but resign Hill. LB in the 1st is too high, draft one(s) later on in the draft. I agree with Poulsbo on the positions to go after in the 1st. We already have QB and CB, so go for the pass rusher or the lines. I still think we should draft a QB though, just sometime after the 2nd rd.

  25. Yep, reisgn Hill. Regardless of what they do in the draft, its unwise to go into the draft with such an obvious hole to fill. I would hope Schneider is just waiting him out until his price drops.

  26. With two whole weeks to wait, I’m thinking this week about what our trade-down scenarios might look like. Like RD says, there isn’t an obvious player at 12 for another team to trade up for. But we don’t know who teams covet.

    Guys I see possibly being available at 12 that another team may covet enough to trade up for:

    Coples – a few teams may want him if he’s still there at 12, but would anyone risk trading up for him? And if he’s there, can the Seahawks pass him up?
    Kuechly – I think KC drafts him at 11, but if he’s there at 12 this is another player very hard to pass up. After KC and Seattle, I don’t see who would trade up for him.
    DeCastro – has anyone ever traded up in the first round to select a guard? I don’t think so.
    Poe – he is really intriguing, but would anyone trade up for a guy with as many questions about him?
    Floyd – I think this is the guy some team might trade up for, especially since AZ could very well draft him at 13. The Jets at 16 or Bengals at 17 might be convinced to jump for Floyd.

    This seems like the most likely trade scenario. Seahawks trade down with NYJ or CIN, pick up an extra 3rd or probably 4th round pick, and take their pick from several intriguing prospects: Mercilus, Jones, Ingram, Upshaw, Fleener.

  27. Strategicdust says:

    Hello all,
    Long time reader and admirer of the blog, finally decided to join in. The more I read about this draft, the more I’m inclined to think the Seahawks are going to draft either Kuechly or Decastro. Yes, the Seahawks need another pass rusher but most of their choices for that role have a lot of risk. As far as draft assessments can be trusted, it seems that Kuechly or Decastro are not only the best players at their position but they have the best potential to be dominant in the NFL as well. Upshaw is an intriguing choice but I believe he’ll be gone by time the Hawks pick. I just don’t trust either Coples or Ingram and I’m not sure the front office will take that risk when the needs and potential match so well with Keuchly and Decastro.

  28. I agree – just resign Hill. Also would consider EJ Henderson and / or London Fletcher. Sign them to short, low risk contracts.

    Then pick up 2 or 3 LBs in (or after) the draft and let them compete. Cut the losers.

  29. JazBadAzz says:

    I quietly hoping Trent Richardson falls to us. Fingers crossed!

  30. JazBadAzz says:

    Who is our back up center?

  31. I haven’t really noticed his play (I don’t follow Minn), but he has terrific stats! Over 100 tackles each of the last two seasons.

  32. Lemuel JeanPierre is (I believe) our back-up center. I didn’t see him play any center last season, but he did a nice job filling in at guard.

  33. Again, I haven’t seen him play either, but London Fletcher has amazing tackle stats. I know he is getting old (36), but check his stats

  34. RDPoulsbo says:

    I’ve seen a lot of Fletcher living in DC now. He’s very productive and he’s very sturdy. I think he’s 2nd or 3rd on the longest active streak as a starter. That’s unheard of for a LB. I guess the word is both sides want to re-sign, but the Redskins cap penalty is making contract negotiations difficult.

  35. Hammajamma says:

    I too like Kendricks in the 2nd round. But I don’t see any sure things at pass rusher, and Kuechly is a sure thing. You need a tackling machine up the middle, and he has uncommon insticts, kind of the anti-curry. Hawthorne had great insticts as well, but Kuechly could have more range and he’s a plus coverage LB. All he’s done is excel year after year. Draft him and he’ll lead the team in tackles, without a doubt.

    I take the sure thing over hit and miss Coples. If he’s there at 12, I would hope they take him.

  36. Dukeshire says:

    Stevos – I believe the only player a team would really want to get into #12, would be for Floyd (one of the guys you mentioned). Someone like Denver or Tenn. I could be wrong, but after Luck and Griffin, I just don’t see players in this draft that teams are clamoring to move up for.

  37. What I said was that Floyd looks like the only attractive trade bait at 12, unless Coples is still there. I don’t see Floyd falling past 17 and maybe not past AZ at 13. He’s got trade bait written all over him. And, there are a cluster of good looking defensive players in this first round to trade down for.

    Its interesting how every year the sports press picks on a guy like Coples who was well-regarded as a top-10 prospect, and analyzes him to death, documenting his supposed flaws. Meanwhile, a bunch of guys who ran well at the Combine but did not dominate their competition in college start creeping up their mock draft boards without passing any such scrutiny. So its interesting to see both Coples and Upshaw falling down the mock draft boards. I would bet that a lot of NFL teams are still drooling over the possibility of drafting either one of them.

  38. RDPoulsbo says:

    I think there’s going to be a run on defensive players in the 10-20 range, so teams can wait to trade up for Floyd and pay a smaller price. A trade to the 16-18 range seems to be more plausible than another team going up to 12.

    The thing about Coples is the move inside didn’t help him with film to get drafted as a DE. He still played fairly decently there, but it’s pretty easy to tell that’s not his natural position. It’s kind of like the earlier post questioning the pass rush ability of Brockers by putting up game film of the Alabama game where he played 1-tech to contain the best RB in college. It’s just not a fair analysis.

  39. RDPoulsbo says:

    The only thing I don’t like about Ingram is he’s pretty small to play on the end. He could play Leo, but that’s not where they have a pass rush problem. They need a bigger guy who’s going to need fight through chip blocks from TEs and still get into the backfield. He’ll probably be a stud OLB for some 3-4 defense, but the fit just isn’t there in the Seahawk defense.

  40. freedom_X says:

    I completely agree with Schneider’s stated philosophy of drafting the best player available. Better to have too much excellence at one position than balanced mediocrity. It’s a fact of life that there isn’t an even distribution of talent between positions in a given year, and when you pick lower in the draft, you have less chance of getting what talent there is, if a given position is thin.

    I suppose the real issue is what constitutes the best player available. That’s not always the most physically gifted player or the one with the highest ceiling. A boom or bust player may not be the best player available.

    Luke Kuechly does not compare athletically at all to Aaron Curry. Kuechly’s 40 yd dash times are drilled, “manufactured” numbers (lots of work concentrating on his form and start.) They asked him to run extra dashes because his times varied so much. On tape he doesn’t run nearly as well as Curry, he doesn’t have Curry’s size, or his strength. Kuechly might be more agile (turning into coverage.)

    The “Curry pick was stupid” contingent here are largely products of revisionist thinking. At the time he was picked, perhaps 1 or 2 people thought it was a mistake, and none though it was because they knew Curry couldn’t play – they wanted Seattle to trade down. No one here, and almost no one anywhere, predicted Curry would flop at the time he was drafted.

    Curry was the safest pick in that draft – but it just goes to show “safest” doesn’t mean “safe.”

  41. Hammajamma says:

    “Luke Kuechly does not compare athletically at all to Aaron Curry. Kuechly’s 40 yd dash times are drilled, “manufactured” numbers (lots of work concentrating on his form and start.) They asked him to run extra dashes because his times varied so much. On tape he doesn’t run nearly as well as Curry, he doesn’t have Curry’s size, or his strength. Kuechly might be more agile (turning into coverage.)”

    Agreed. Curry’s athleticism got him drafted at 4, as he is a freakish specimin. But he couldn’t plug his physical skills into the game, so those numbers in the end lacked relevance. Similarly, Kuechly’s 40 times lack relevance precisely because they are controlled. I tend to think guys with NFL bodies who consistently find the football throughout their college careers will do so at the next level. I think he’s got the feel for it, which you can’t teach. Curry showed no amount of coaching could overcome his lack of it.

  42. I do agree that Curry was a stupid pick for the Seahawks…the potential might have been there, but the guy never produced. I am a little leery of taking a LB in the 1st round. Afterall, the Seahawks dont have a good history when it comes to drafting high profile LB’s from college…Both Bosworth and Curry were busts!

    If they sign Hill back (who was productive) (they would have to work on him keeping out of trouble…nothing like a player who is constantly in the lime light for bad reasons)and pick up another through free agency…it would complete their LB corps. Maybe draft a couple in the later rounds to see where they stand up against the vets and also prep for the future. After seeing a few of the Redskin games last year and looking at his past stats…London Fletcher is out there to be had at a decent price. Actually, I am kind of surprised that another team hasn’t signed him. He is always ready for game day and he produces! He might be older…but he has the desire and the will to continue his career.

    As for draft day…do the Seahaeks entertain the idea of trading up with Minn to land the #3 pick and the rights for Kalil? Reports are that the Vikings dont want him…he is a USC grad and we all know that Carroll loves his USC recruits…just saying…this is going to be an interesting draft.

  43. Stevos-Exactly. All the negative talk about Coples sounds to me like groupthink, and a few NFL-types desperately trying to influence a fall. He’s the highest rated pass rusher in the draft. He had a great year in 2010, then struggled through his teams issues last year, having an off year.

    Personally, I will be fine with Seattle taking him at 12. If they pass, Im okay there too I guess. Mercilus is an interesting prospect, as is Perry. Mercilus says he has to eat 5,500 calories a day to stay at his combine weight of 261, he was down to 254 March 6th. He had this to say of his combine/pro day:

    “By far the worst part of this whole thing had to be the psychological tests. I had six psychological tests Sunday. On the first test, I answered 300 or 400 questions. They want to see how you think. I play defense. Of course I’m crazy, but not that crazy.” –Thats pretty funny!

    Perry is 6′-3″ and 271 lbs, ran a 4.64 40 and put up 35 reps at 225 lbs. Mercilus is 6′-4″ and 260 and put up 27 bench reps. Interestingly, Mercilus had the better 3-cone drill and 20-yard shuttle times, and he improved those times at his Pro Day.

    I would say that Mercilus could play Leo/Elephant if Seattle reverts to a 4-3 Under, especially if he drops a little weight. If he bulks up a little/keeps his weight, he can play 4-3 Over DE. I think he may have more scheme versatility than Perry.

    What do y’all think?

  44. For everyone with a man-crush on Sanu, my question is why? The guy ran a 4.65 40, is 6′-2″ and 211 lbs. He runs good routes but needs to improve, but the scouting report says he lacks the speed to go deep (duh!), and seems to give up competition after 10 yards. The report also says he isnt explosive after the catch. He seems to be ideal for Holmgren’s WCO, a FL like Darrel Jackson only slower. I get that he’s a good player, but why do we need him?

    For comparison Ben Obomanu ran a 4.45 and 4.50 40 at the combine. He isnt quick-twitch fast, nor a consistent deep threat, but he does occasionally get behind NFL corners. And he’s 6′-1″ and 205-210 lbs as well. He usually got sure hands even when hit hard, his multiple drops against Arizona in the season finale notwithstanding.

    What we need is for a Sidney Rice minus injuries, and for Lockette and Tate to step up. We could make a case for drafting Floyd, but not for Sanu. I just dont see it.

  45. HawkyHann says:

    Sando is dead on. Two losing records in a row. PC makes serious cash in the coaching ranks. It’s time to prove your worth. Make or break season. Need to show us your a legit NFL coach. Time to win NOW!!

  46. Coples is 6′-6″ and 284 lbs. He can play multiple positions on the line, and would seem to be a replacement at LDE for Big Red on passing downs, and a guy who could play 3-tech DT as well.

    Now that I thinka bout it, it would seem Mercilus, Ingram and Perry would be more attractive to Seattle, but who knows?

    Upshaw is strong but slow. I think he falls and either the Jets or Stealers get him.

  47. HawkyHann says:

    Ruud is just plain gross as a starter. Come on. These are the decisions that will get people fired if the Wins dont come. 49ers have bone crushing bad boys, we have some dud name Ruud.

  48. HawkyHann says:

    STTBM- Agree with grabbing Kendricks in the 2nd round. Mecilus is impressive. I like both of these guys a lot.

  49. Dukeshire says:

    Stevo – Yes. We’re in agreement.

  50. freedom_X says:

    I am leery of Coples because of his intangibles factor. Many supremely talented D-lineman have been complete busts due to lacking work ethic and desire to play the game, and that’s what I hear is a risk with Coples. He laid down this past year in college.

    I think we’ve already mentioned a physically gifted player who lacks intangible factors, already in this thread…

    If Pete Carroll believes he can reach through to Coples and get him ticking, which is very possible, then it would be like getting a #1 overall pick. If Coples worked and played as hard as Mario Williams, Coples would be a #1 overall pick in almost any other draft, and no lower than #3 in this one.

    As it is, his physical talent might have someone go for him top-5. If Al Davis were still here and Oakland had a top-3 pick, I’m certain the Raiders would have drafted Coples.

  51. “On tape [Kuechly] doesn’t run nearly as well as Curry”

    Interesting comparison. Curry ran fast. Kuechly runs to where the ball is. That’s the difference. lol!

  52. Dukeshire says:

    Hammajamma / Freedom_X – Controlled 40 times? They’re all “controlled”. And I beg to differ about game speed. Kuechly closes on the ball carrier every bit as fast as Curry (and actually makes the tackle). I believe you are each severely devaluing Kuechly athleticism. Here is a brief comparison of their combine #s:

    Kuechly:6’3″ 242 40 time: 4.58s Vert: 38.0″ Broad: 10’3″ Bench: 27 reps
    Curry:6’5/8″ 254 40 time: 4.56s Vert: 37.0″ Broad: 10’4″ Bench: 25 reps

    If Curry was an athletic “freak”, then so too is Kuechly. Moreover, Kuechly plays with so much more discipline and instinct than Curry ever has. Granted, the comparisons are a bit skewed as they play different positions, but to make the argument Kuechly isn’t Curry’s equal athletically is unfounded.

  53. “On tape [Kuechly] doesn’t run nearly as well as Curry”

    Interesting comparison. Curry ran fast. Kuechly runs to where the ball is and makes the tackle. That’s the difference. lol!

  54. All those years we thought we had the best linebackers and it got us nowhere? Peterson lofa Hill ? It got us to the superbowl the last time I checked!WOW

  55. piperfeltcher says:

    Think Kuechly will be a great player but hate drafting a MLB that high as they have one of the shortest career averages of any position because of the amount of punishment they take. Hard to use a high pick on a guy who will most likely play 4-5 years.
    I like how the more time that passes since any football was played the worse Coaples is.

  56. freedom_X says:

    Duke, there are players who spend a lot of time tuning techniques to turn in better workout times. Arm action. Stance. Start technique. This doesn’t actually mean the player will run any faster on the field.

    Kuechly’s fastest and slowest times were so widely disparate, he was asked to run yet again. Generally, a person with “natural” speed will be fairly consistent in their times. A player relying on sprinting techniques to wring maximum speed (especially if they’re not a sprinter by trade) may slip up on their technique, causing bigger differences on their dash times.

    Willie Gault always said he could cut .2 off of Walter Payton’s 40 yard dash time by correcting his arm action when sprinting. But Gault said it wouldn’t make Payton any faster on the field.

    Combine strength also doesn’t translate into on-field strength all that often. Let’s not forget the *college* video on Curry.

    In *college*, Curry dominated blockers and destroyed ball carriers. Kuechly was a solid wrap-up tackler but didn’t show the same type of explosion and ability to dispose of blockers like Curry did.

    Strangely, in college Curry was a very good pass defender (7 ints, 2 or 3 returned for scores if I recall right.) But in the workouts, Curry’s shuttle and cone drill times were only average. That was the one and only question mark I ever heard of on Curry, pre-draft – that he might be too stiff to cover well at the pro level. Most people (including myself) though, felt that since he did well in college, he’d be OK in the pros.

    Kuechly has better 3-cone and shuttle times than Curry did – so I’m inclined to believe he’s more agile and more physically capable in coverage.

    Curry is clearly a larger, blockier, more massive man than Kuechly. We will see if Kuechly can hold his current weight. But you flat out do not see the type of athletically impressive plays from Kuechly’s college video that you see on Curry’s college video.

    Like I always say, Curry looked every bit like a great pick, the 1st 5 games of his Seahawk career. He did the amazing stuff that made people think he’d be a superstar. Then it all went downhill.

    But don’t think that Curry’s college performance was full of holes. No one questioned his instincts in college – in fact, they were praised. No one questioned his enthusiasm for the game, or his ego, or his work ethic. All those were considered pluses for Curry.

    That’s why everyone thought he was the safest pick – based on college performances, Curry had great athleticism, physical size, and strong intangibles. He had every positive attribute of a draft pick.

    It’s almost like he had a brain transplant or joined a cult or starting doing drugs after the 5th game of his rookie year.

    This is not to say I think Kuechly is a bad pick or player – if they pick him @12 I’m fine with it. I’m one of those guys who thinks instinctive play at LB is more important than athleticism myself.

    But I’d like to find a single scouting report that says Kuechly shows amazing athletic ability on the field. I don’t think there are any, because it wasn’t apparent. Even before the combine Curry’s athletic ability was cited repeatedly, which is why he was the #1 LB prospect from beginning to end (unless you were looking for a pass-rushing LB.)

  57. raymaines says:

    A few stray thought:

    What were Steve Largent’s “measurables”? How would he have done at a combine?

    Pete Prisco says “QB: Flynn threw for 480 yards and six touchdowns in his only start last season for the Packers. But it wasn’t as good as the numbers would indicate.” and then goes on to tell why. He’s right of course, but still, in the entire history of the NFL there have been very few QB’s that have ever put up a game like that. I’m excited to see our offence this year. Flynn isn’t going to have a QB rating of 129 at the end of the year, but I’m excited.

    FishAK askes: “As for draft day…do the Seahaeks [sp] entertain the idea of trading up with Minn to land the #3 pick and the rights for Kalil?” Short answer NO!!!!!! The draft value chart indicates Seattle would have to give up their 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th AND 7th round choices to make that move. That’s simply not going to happen.

    PC on the hot seat? Again, No. The ‘Hawks could go 10-6 (or even 11-5) next year and miss the play offs. S.F. is for real guys. AZ and StL are also improving. Just showing improvement will keep the seat nice and cool.

    I’m liking DeCastro. We’ll all know in just over two weeks.

  58. Irish – Peterson played on the SB team? Check your facts.

  59. I’m hoping the hawks can scoop a good LB in the later rounds like they did in 84, getting Fredd Young in the 3rd round . In my opinion the best LB the hawks ever had. I think that it is easier to get decent LBs in later rounds than with it is with many other positions.

  60. Dukeshire says:

    Freedom – You lost me when you devalued workout numbers then used combine times to articulate another point. Our views are so disparitive regarding them, it’s not worth debating. 3 years, or so, from now we’ll know what kind of player Kuechly is. We can revisit then.

  61. Irish – I’m waiting for you to tell me how stupid I am for not knowing that Julian Peterson was on our Super Bowl team.

  62. freedom_X says:

    Well, I was trying to keep my rambling down, but left out a summary of the point I was trying to make.

    In my view, workouts don’t negate the film. If a player doesn’t show in on the field, then his workouts and numbers don’t change things.

    In Kuechly’s case, he does look like a guy who moves fluidly and changes direction easily. He doesn’t look stiff on the field. So here, the combine numbers happen to validate what we see on the field. If he had done poorly on the 3-cone and shuttle, I still would go off the tape.

    On the other hand, stuff like lateral movement and agility are hard to “manufacture” (train for.) There aren’t that many techniques to vastly improve your measured agility if you’re already fit.

    The workout numbers, in my view should be used to confirm what you see on the field, and if they don’t match, then should be used as a flag to investigate further. The biggest mistake IMHO is to elevate a guy dramatically off a workout number.

    Take for example Jason Hill, WSU receiver. If I remember right, prior to the combine, he was a 5th-6th round type talent. He had a good per-catch average in college and produced, but nobody in the Pac-10 thought of Hill as a fearsome deep threat, always one step away from a TD.

    Then he runs 4.3 and suddenly he’s a 3rd round pick. But he’s never reminded anybody of Joey Galloway or even Devin Hester, not even close. He didn’t show zone-threatening speed in college, and despite his blazing 4.3 40, hasn’t shown it in the pros. He is what he is.

  63. Bobby your far from stupid! Your a good man and I should of came across a little less harsh. I definitely think we may draft 2 backers again similar too lofa and hill when we made the super’s hard to remember how good they were when they were young linebackers. They were awesome backers as young bucks!Keep up the good work Bobby! In my opinion your actually a genius.great football mind thank you !

  64. @FISHAK – As for draft day…do the Seahaeks entertain the idea of trading up with Minn to land the #3 pick and the rights for Kalil? Reports are that the Vikings dont want him…he is a USC grad and we all know that Carroll loves his USC recruits…just saying…this is going to be an interesting draft.

    NO not at all – they like Okung at LT AND PC hasn’t rushed out and grabbed all his USC guys – as a matter of fact he has notably stayed away from an number of them – he will grab them if they fit and if the price is right – which I don’t think it will be for the #3 pick

    @Stevos – This seems like the most likely trade scenario. Seahawks trade down with NYJ or CIN, pick up an extra 3rd or probably 4th round pick, and take their pick from several intriguing prospects: Mercilus, Jones, Ingram, Upshaw, Fleener.

    I agree – the cost to move up would be like a early 3rd AND a 5th to go from like 16or17 to twelve – that would be great for us – prime territory to grab some great depth guys that can contribute somewhere AND on ST — with those extra picks AND still lets you get a quality guy in the 1st

  65. Macabrevity says:

    STTBM – Totally agree with you on this point;

    “We’re not competing for a Super Bowl this year, I dont care what Carrol says. We dont have to draft for need at 12, they should get the guy that will make the biggest impact on the team long-term.”

    As for Curry, I’ve been following the televised draft since 1984, as a draft fan I can say I often like it more than the super bowl. I’ve always had players I preferred to those who are picked, and have often been wrong – but on Curry, I knew he was a toilet after 30 seconds of pre-draft research. I took one look at his mug shot and said: “that there is a 30 year old man.” Kuechly on the other hand still has his youth :)

  66. Macabrevity says:

    Speaking of busts – my 8 month old son kept saying ‘koy-koy-koy’ the other day, so I pulled his binky out, and he quickly switched to ‘luck-luck-luck’. I think he’s predicting Andrew Luck’s career will be reminiscent of Koy Detmer’s…

    Of course, before any of you guys try to say my son doesn’t know what he’s gurgling about – I’ll freely admit that he was wrong on his ‘Peyton-to-Tennessee’ prediction last month.


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