Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Reaction to Hawks signings

Post by Eric Williams on April 7, 2012 at 10:24 am with 89 Comments »
April 7, 2012 10:26 am
Seattle Seahawks' Roy Lewis, right, against Arizona Cardinals' Trumaine McBride, left, during an NFL football game Sunday, Nov. 14, 2010, in Glendale, Ariz. (AP Photo/Paul Connors)

Here’s a couple thoughts on the Seattle Seahawks signings of defensive back Roy Lewis, linebacker Barrett Ruud and offensive lineman Deuce Lutui on Friday, which I wrote about today.

Bringing back Lewis gives Seattle another veteran presence in the back end of the defense, along with returning one of team’s core special teams players.

Ruud also adds experience and familiarity with Seattle’s scheme from his time in Tampa Bay with Seattle defensive coordinator Gus Bradley. But I don’t view Ruud as a replacement for David Hawthorne, but more as a mentor for the guy who will eventually take over at middle linebacker, whether it’s K.J. Wright or someone Seattle drafts in a few weeks.

And Lutui also adds some depth and experience up front along the offensive line, and could be insurance if John Moffitt struggles in returning from his knee injury that cut short his rookie season.

According to ESPN’s Mike Sando, Seattle has 70 players on the team’s 80-man roster. That’s what I have as well.

Greg Gabriel of the National Football Post puts North Carolina defensive end Quinton Coples at the top of his list of risky first-round picks.

Rob Rang of NFLDraftScout.com has Coples as the No. 9 rated player on his big board.

Bucky Brooks of the NFL Network lists ASU QB Brock Osweiler among his riskiest picks.

According to TMZ, future Hall of Famer and current NFL Network analyst Warren Sapp has filed for bankruptcy.

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  1. I guess when Shockey sues Sapp, he won’t get much.

    I think the Ruud signing means that they don’t have to draft a MLB, even though they most likely want to.

    Lewis is a guy that you win championships with. He does his thing, doesn’t make a huge salary, but is extremely important after the star players. He’s a definite asset and in no way a liablity. It’s funny b/c he doesn’t have a big contract, but he’s a heck of a lot better at what he does (nickel & ST) than some players on the team who make more at their positions. I don’t know how anyone could complain about having him on their team at a minimal salary. I could see it if he were a $7 million per year starting CB, but not in this scenario. Good work Mr. Happy and Bo.

  2. I’m not sure if by signing Ruud that they won’t draft a MLB, but right away I thought they no longer have the pressure to take one at #12, or in the first round for that matter. I still really like Kendricks, though he’s not very tall and I think this regime would like a taller MLB–somewhat like KJ, though he’s supposedly going to stay on the outside.

    Hopefully, Lutui will lose weight ala Mike Williams. This staff seems like it’s a good supporter.

    Great to see Lewis back. Local guy and can’t go wrong with a Special Teams Captain.

  3. JazBadAzz says:

    I like the depth, nice assesment Eric!

    Warren Sapp shouldv’e been spending his money of crap. Al Davis paid him well, after a profitable career with the bucs, obviously he didn’t manage his money smart. Making 48k a month from nfl network isn’t enough to live off of these days! These guys kill me!

  4. This is the currant seahawks depth chart and roster.

    http://www.ourlads.com/nfldepthcharts/depthchart/SEA

  5. Eric,
    No KUDO’s for the link?

  6. Dukeshire says:

    Any depth chart in April ought to be taken with a grain of salt. That said, this one is particularly silly. Jones supplants Branch at 3-tech. Not in the base he doesn’t. At least it’s a way to look at the roster.

    Why would Osweiler be a “risky” pick? He’s unlikely to be drafted before day 3. He’s a project under any circumstances, and that implies an inherent risk, albeit marginal. Investing millions in guarantees to a guy like Coples is a top risk.

  7. Duke,
    How many sacks did Branch get last year? and how many did Jones get? enough said?

  8. chuck_easton says:

    osbrey,

    Also, they have Moffet at starting LG when he is the RG. Again, this depth chart is close, but there are some obvious errors.

  9. tchristensen says:

    What I find interesting is the FO signs so many FA’s with a possible ship on their shoulder; Mike Williams, Michael Robinson, Alan Branch, Duece Lutui. It’s an interesting strategy.

  10. Dukeshire says:

    Osbrey- all of Jones’ 3 sacks came at DE, not DT. Um… Enough said.

  11. Chuck,
    Moffit’s natural position at Wisconsin was LG!

    I expect theb seahawks to draft Decastro for RG for 10 years.

  12. Hawksince77 says:

    Duke,

    About Osweiler. He’s a risky pick in the first two rounds, a place many people think he will go. To your point, if he is taken on the third day, not so much, as that’s where you would expect a project guy to go.

    At least that’s my read of the ‘risk’ judgment. Heck, some people are talking about taking him in the first round. THAT would be risky.

  13. chuck_easton says:

    Give up the Decastro dream. Ain’t gonna happen. The team can’t use it’s #1 overall pick on OL three years in a row.

    That #1 will be defensive front 7.

  14. Hawksince77 says:

    For example (about Osweiler):

    “After his pro day last week, NFL.com and former Dallas Cowboys Vice President of Player Personnel Gil Brandt said that Osweiler could be a first-round pick. A few weeks earlier Todd McShay of ESPN also stated that Osweiler could be a first rounder.”

    http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Prospect-Focus-Quarterback-Brock-Osweiler.html

  15. One other thing OURLADS has a direct link to NFL CLUBS,not fan sites or official NFL sites, as to ROSTER&DEPTH CHARTS!

  16. LouieLouie says:

    Eric: Your little blip about Steve Gleason is interesting. He may not have meant to, but he did the league a favor by letting that recording of Gregg Williams slip out. It helped put the entire Saints situation in perspective.

    Williams was talking to his players about bashing heads of other players before getting out of a pile, going after ACLs, etc. We all know that football is a rough sport, but Gregg Williams should never coach in the NFL again.

  17. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    chuck, read an article that compared decastro to hutch in everyway. it then went on to say that no player drafted in 01 went to more probowls then hutch. i don’t care if you used last ten high pick on OL
    if you can draft a player to solidify your OL you do it.

  18. JazBadAzz says:

    Greg Cosell is one of the best talent evaluators around, hands down! If you like reading some really good stuff on draftee’s coming out please check him out on his twitter!

  19. JazBadAzz says:

    I can read his thoughts on players all day long, really got it dailed in!

  20. I too think Seattle may move Moffitt to LG, his position in college, now that he and Okung have some experience. Carp is a longshot to start anywhere this year, even at G. He’s just a hope taking up a roster spot. Moffit may not be 100% from his injury until after the season starts as well, thats a really good point.

    Lutui, IF he’s lost weight and found some motivation, could be a decent depth signing. Still, I was hoping for a G with some pass pro skills, not another road grader. Obviously Cable will take a road grader over a pass pro specialist any day.

    Folks are listing Jones as the starting 3-tech because he has higher sack totals and a bigger name than Branch, thats all. But as Dukeshire pointed out, 3 of those sacks came from the DE position. Seattle seems headed for a rotational D-line. Mebane is the only guy that might be in on most/all the snaps.

    All these questions and suppositions are fun, but they dont mean diddly. Sorting this all out is what training camp and preseason is for.

  21. Has anyone heard how all our injured O-Linemen are doing? I don’t recall any reports of Carp, Moffit, or Okung…

    Any links to draft analysis Greg Cosell has written for us non-Twitter types?

  22. All I heard was that Moffitt was going to be 100% for training camp (awhile ago), Okung too. I haven’t heard anything on Carp but common sense would tell us that a big man like him with an ACL tear as late in the season as he experienced will basically be useless in 2012 (at least early on), but come 2013 he’ll be ready to contribute in a major way (I hope). I would expect that he’ll either play G or comPete with Breno at RT (depending on a lot of things) in two years. A lot can happen b/w now and then.

    The more I think of it, the more I don’t see any way DeCastro is going to be available at #12. If I put myself in the position of a few other teams, there’s no way I’d pass on him if I’m Carolina, Buffalo, or KC. I know Carolina has a decent line, anchored by a great C, but Gross isn’t a spring chicken and they have a franchise QB (who would have thought? Not me!) they need to build around. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him go #9 and then for Carolina to get a few defensive players in the next few rounds. Besides, if you look at the RBs that Carolina has, they need bulldozers in front of them (DeCastro) so they can get their bang for their buck with them. For the here and now, maybe Carolina could use a CB or pass rusher, but they aren’t winning the Super Bowl this year anyways. If they want to build their “program” the best way possible for long-term success, they draft DeCastro and have NO regrets.

  23. Thanks Bobby, that’s great news! I figured Carp would take a while, but was concerned about the other two.

    It will definitely be interesting to see what they do at LG this year.

  24. JazBadAzz says:

    Rgbuckl- sorry I can’t find anything that he’s publishing quite like he does on twitter. I don’t think you need an account to read the things he’s twitted. He may have some stuff on the bleacher report but I’m not sure t what extent. If you are interested just google @gregcosell and you can go through his timeline. He had a great debate on the correlation of top LT and superbowl team. He talking about the transtion of college production and if it means that player will be a better probowl! Good stuff!

  25. Thanks Jaz!

  26. chuck_easton says:

    Hey,

    I’m not saying I’d be upset if the team did take DeCastro. I just don’t see it happening. And on draft day if he’s on the board at 12 and the team chooses someone else I can already see all the complaining that is going to go on here.

  27. Kind of like Carimi last year:) ?

  28. STTBM: Carp just hoping for a roster spot? Give me a break – they only people that think he is in danger are people on here.

    I think the PUP list is a possibility but not on the roster – not a chance

  29. I have to agree with chuck and others who think it seems far-fetched for us to take OL again in the first round this year, even though DeCastro looks like a great one. The idea of taking Kuechly at 12 seems a stretch too, even though I think he’ll be a great one too.

    The more I look at this first round, the more I feel like we hope Coples falls to us at 12, or we try like hell to trade down.

  30. raymaines says:

    One of the reasons the NFL is so darn popular is they play their games at a decent time of day. A game played at 4:00pm on the west coast is viewed at 7:00 and will only last until about 10:00pm on the east coast. That’s doable.

    As we speak, it’s 8:00 on the west coast and your Seattle Mariners are in the 6th inning of a game against the Oakland Athletics. Honest to God, can you blame anybody in Boston or NY for not watching that game? It’s going to go on for another hour and it’s already 11:00 on the right side of the country.

    And the final score of that one game is about equivalent to the score in the middle of the first quarter of a NFL game. America’s pastime? How about Past Time.

    Geaux SeaHawks

  31. Palerydr says:

    Man people here who have given some informed opinions for this blog apparently have no clue when it comes to Carpenter. He played 9 games and according to Rob Rang he was really coming on and getting a better feel for the position. He has some work to do as do most players regardless of where they are drafted. To label Carpenter a bust is just wrong. Really what the heck do you want from a pick in the bottom 3rd of the first round??? Apparently he should be an All Pro who completly dominates the league from the second he gets on the field ala Walter Jones. Oh wait even Walter Jones took 3 years to get that kind of recognition. The guy will be a starter on this line as soon as he recovers from his inj. Book it.

  32. I’m sure STTBM can defend himself, but he didn’t say Carp wouldn’t make the roster. I believe what he said was that Carp would not be ready to start in 2012 and so he might just end up taking up a roster spot without being able to contribute much, which is true.

    As for anyone calling Carpenter a bust after his short time in the NFL, that would be silly at this point.

  33. “The guy will be a starter on this line as soon as he recovers from his inj. Book it.”

    To go out on as big of a limb, I predict that the Seahawks will play in Seattle in 2020.

  34. Honestly, I think as long as Carp recovers well from the injury and this regime gets him into shape, I think he can still be a very good OL, though that could end up being OG.

    Either way, you can never have enough serviceable OL.

    I’m really warming up to the idea of us trying to pick up Fleener. They did walk off the field talking to him at the Stanford Pro Day. I wonder if they might try to make that happen if they trade down…

  35. GeorgiaHawk says:

    The thing I blame Carp for last year was coming in so out of shape.
    And some of the blame is on the FO for reaching for him in the first round. Carp even said he didn’t expect to go that high. But hey, the Fo can’t get every pick right.

    Now most of the blame has to go to whoever decided to force feed him into a position that he possibly could not handle at the NFL level. Especially coming in out of shape like he did.

    Carp had guard written all over him and that’s where he should have been placed, imo.
    I think he could be a great guard but now we have pretty much missed out on that developement for two seasons.
    In fact, wasn’t his injury a practice injury? If it was then perhaps he wouldn’t even gotten injuried if he was practicing at the guard position instead of RT where he can’t make the types of movements that a RT can make therefore increasing his risk for injury.

  36. Dukeshire says:

    The thing about “reaching” for Carpenter, is that they didn’t have a second round pick and there is no way he’d of lasted until they chose 75th, in the third. So if they targeted him as their guy, they had to take him there.

    I really look forward to seeing how he plays at tackle, once he’s healthy. I think he’ll end up being a far more complete, adm better tackle, than many here.

  37. Palerydr says:

    “To go out on as big of a limb, I predict that the Seahawks will play in Seattle in 2020.”

    I happen to echo Dukes thoughts and I truly believe that Carpenter will end up being a solid performer for our Oline after he rehabs his inj. As for his taking a roster spot I fully expect he will start the season on the PUP which doesn’t take a spot. I don’t know the exact timeline for coming off the PUP but I believe that anytime up to week 6 a player can be activated. If after 6 weeks he still isn’t ready to play then I would expect them to place him on the disabled list which again takes up no roster spot. He then comes back at full strength for the start of the 2013 season.

  38. Palerydr says:

    I haven’t been able to verify the source however the Packers were reportedly interested in drafting Carpenter at #32 due to his versatility instead of Sherrod.

  39. Duke,

    We had a 2nd, no 3rd. We dealt the 2nd during the draft to move back into the 3rd (where apparently, we were targetting Moffit all along) and picked up additional later picks. There were rumblings the Packers were going to draft Carpenter at 1-32. But even if they drafted Sherrod instead, other teams at the top of 2nd were looking at Carpenter, so that forced our hand.

    I didn’t view it as a reach then, nor do I believe it was a mistake at this point. We needed OL help and got one of the most gifted and versatile ones available with a very late 1st round pick.

    I really like what Carpenter brings to the table. I’m not sure if he’ll end up at guard or tackle, but I really think he is going to become a force with a little more experience. That said, the 2012 prognosis is disappointing… probably ends up on PUP to start the year and at best plays some starting around mid-season.

  40. Wow Palerydr – Are you reading my mind? I’m at work, so my response to Duke was being written between work distractions.

  41. Along with Stevos, I’m jumping on the Coples bandwagon. All the measurables, proven in 2010 and the senior bowl, certainly passes the eyeball test (am I tricked by the light blue and 90 into seeing JPep? Maybe) and just too much talent there plus I think that Pete can motivate him IF that is really even an issue.

    I wouldn’t be mad at all getting DeCastro. I think I would be mad about Kuechly because I don’t believe it’s possible that he will have been the best player available at 12, and I don’t believe there is a need for him justifying the reach.

    To tchristiansens point, signing angry men to play football for you is just good policy! ;)

  42. Palerydr says:

    As most of your posts are a bit better informed than mine I’ll just use that tired old cliche, Great minds tend to think alike :)

  43. James Carpenter will be a good NFL guard. I’ve never thought this wasn’t possible. I think he might even be an okay RT, but I’m not totally sold on the idea. Sure, he’ll be better at RT in 2013 than he was as a rookie, but that’s not saying much. Granted, he was imporoving, but he had to b/c he was terrible early on. Really, I don’t think too many people have fully written him off. I haven’t; I’m just not expecting much in 2012 b/c of the ACL tear so late in the ’11 season.

    Another knock on Carp is that he has been unfairly judged in comparison to Gabe Carimi. Carimi also got hurt last year, but that’s who the fans here wanted and Carimi actually looked very good at RT before his injury and he’s actually going to be 100% for 2012, whereas Carp will not and won’t be able to really make his impact until the following season.

    All in all, I think Carpenter will be fine moving forward (even if it’s at RT — it’s just my personal opinion that he’d be a better NFL player at guard, than tackle). I just don’t expect him to be fine in 2012.

  44. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I like Carp too. Like I said before, Carp could make a great Guard.
    I just didn’t see anything from Carps play last year that would lead me to believe that he can pass protect well at the NFL level.

    Just look at his body type. Big wide roadgrading man with poor lateral movement and recovery.
    I could be wrong but I just don’t see how he could be a good tackle for us without being able to pass block. And we really won’t know until 2013. Ouch!!!

    Probably the most common position change ( from College to Pro’s) is Tackle to Guard. That’s why guards are rarely picked in the top 15 unless there is a Hutch, or dare I say his name! Lol.

  45. I have really come around to the idea of Coples as well JoSCh… I’ve been a little cool on Coples until recently because of the risk factor, but when you think about it every prospect is a risk. “Safe” players are really non-existent myths when you go back through past drafts around the league.

    IMO taking the guy with the highest upside at a premium position with the 12th pick really is getting good value out of the draft. The more I think about it, the more I like it. He was phenominal in 2010, in 2011 he was less awesome (maybe being careful or disinterested). But with all that talent, I’d roll the dice that 2010 is the real Coples.

  46. Georgia/Bobby,

    We certainly agree that he could make a seriously dominant guard. Where you and I differ is that I have yet to dismiss him as a legit pass-blocker or RT. His technique is extremely poor on a lot of plays for sure, but when he is focused and keeps himself on balance he just sort of absorbs pass rushers. His most common mistake is leaning too far forward, causing him to lose his balance on secondary moves or getting beat around the edge. He has long arms and a very strong lower body, so he doesn’t have to lean into passrushers to stop them – he’ll figure this out.

    Overall, I don’t see any athletic issues with Carpenter, just technical issues. The kind that can be coached. These “slow-footed” references are just not accurate. The dude has above average feet, he slides very well but just plays off-balance a little too much. He is not Okung agility-wise, but he is way above average for a RT. He only played 2 years of D-1 remember, he was a JUCO transfer. He relied on his strength at Alabama where they ran it 60% of the time. He plays almost too aggressively, he wants to get his hands on the defender, he’s uncomfortable waiting for the defender to get to him – that’s when he breaks down technically and gets off-balance.

  47. Palerydr says:

    Tried to find some kind of correlation to Coples success in 2010 and his not so successful 2011 campaign. I looked up the 2010 draft and I see that NC had 9 players drafted that year of which 5 were Defensive players. Of those 5, 1 was Robert Quinn which if memory serves didn’t play in 2010. Marvin Austin however did play on the same line so I’m wondering if the double teams that Austin surely commanded helped get Coples more one on one matchups which he seems to have won more often than not. My point is did Coples success come from within or did he get help in the form of playing on a good overall defense which made his play look better than it was?

  48. Palerydr says:

    Happy Easter to all. For those of you who believe “He is risen”

  49. Palerydr,

    I don’t think Austin played either. Either way, Clemons and Mebane command double teams, so I think Coples will produce against NFL RT’s just fine.

  50. Macabrevity says:

    I’m getting a bit nervous from all this Coples talk… guys, he ain’t no Julius Peppers. Don’t you want a potential pro bowler with our #12 pick, even if the position doesn’t seem like a huge need? Not to say that Coples definitely won’t pan out, but if there are guys at their positions (DeCastro, Kuechly) rated #1, and there are guys at Coples position who really outperformed him on the field (Ingram, Mercilus) who are available at #12, then how can we tab Coples? He seems to be benefiting from his body-type, and as was already mentioned, his Jersey.

  51. Palerydr says:

    I know I’ve said this a few times and others have echoed the thought like Sac_94 earlier no one is guaranteed to become a star in the NFL so this year if the FO decides Coples is their guy then I’ll go with that. I have reservations but if you roll the dice and come up with a winner then it’s all good. If you come up a loser you hope that the next guy you draft makes up for the loser. Really it’s a crap shoot either way. all puns intended.

  52. Macabrevity,

    No and no. Pro-bowls are awarded to role players on good teams. Guards are by definition role players. DeCastro might be a top-5 NFL guard someday, but so might Moffitt, Carpenter, or even Jeanpierre. Keuchley is overrated, he’s a read and react MLB – a dime a dozen IMO. I know, I know, ESPN, Rob Rang all these experts keep talking him up – go ahead belive the hype. Irrelevant to me, I watch his games and I don’t see anything special. That’s not to say I expect anyone to take my opinion seriously, it’s just my opinion.

    With draft picks, talent is king, and while he was outperformed by Mercilus and arguably Ingram in 2011 – no DE outperformed Coples in 2010. The talent is there, the production was there in 2010 (not in 2011), the measurables are all there. His dip in production in 2011 and the accompanying assumed lack of a “motor” is the only reason he’s a potential #12 pick and not a top-3 pick.

  53. I’ll agree with Sac_94 here after watching all the Coples clips I could get my eyes on. I’ve said I thought he looked lazy in 2011, but the guy has all the athleticism and raw talent that most DEs will never have, and its not as if any draftee walks into an NFL camp as a finished product.

    I would think that Bradley and Todd Wash are looking at Coples right now and scheming on the things they want to teach him to improve, to unleash that potential. If well coached, he can likely be as good as he wants to be. And if Pete Carroll can’t motivate him, then no one can. If he’s there at 12 (big IF), I have the feeling these coaches will want him in a big way.

  54. For all the speculation he about Carpenter eventually ending up at OG, this makes me recall a couple of things.

    Tom Cable was brought in as Assistant Head Coach to rebuild the offensive line and running game. He was given the first two picks in the draft. He selected Carpenter and Moffitt. Those were his guys from day one. He didn’t have a full offseason to teach them, Carpenter was learning a new position at RT, and he was overweight, but Cable put Carpenter at RT and started him there on week one even though Carp wasn’t close to being ready to start at RT in the NFL.

    Tom Cable wouldn’t have done all this unless he believed that James Carpenter would be a great RT in the future.

    And around midseason, before Carpenter was injured, Cable said, “there are 32 teams in the NFL so you would think there would be 50 good tackles. There aren’t. There are about 25 good tackles, and we are fortunate to have two of them.”

    If Cable believes then I’m good with that. And I suppose Carpenter could end up at G someday if Cable went out and found another monster OT to out-compete him, but I don’t see that happening. Once Carpenter gets a little time at RT, he’ll make us forget all about Giacomini. Watching Giacomini, I see aSean Locklear type with a nastier attitude – quick feet, athletic, good reach but not powerful enough and can’t handle the strongest DEs. Watching Carpenter I’m reminded of Andre Smith, another powerhouse who came into the league not ready to play RT, and Smith is still learning as well, but a man with a powerful base, good feet, and top end strength that he’s just beginning to learn to leverage. I think that in a couple years from now we’ll be watching both Carpenter and Smith steamrolling defenders as a couple of the best RTs in the league.

  55. I hate media draft ratings, FYI:

    ESPN for example:
    Last year, Durham got a grade of 44. There were WR taken in the 7th round that got higher grades, who are by the way, out of the league all-together. Baldwin didn’t even get a grade, must make him less than a 30.

    They’re wrong as much as they’re right. I follow Kiper, McShay, Cosell, Rang, Mayock, all those guys too. I do it for a football fix, for entertainment purposes. They do this as a job, so they’re pretty well informed. Sadly, the process just doesn’t lend itself to being “media friendly”. Scouts/GM’s straight up lie to these guys. They have to, the draft is incredibly competitive and teams try to get an edge in any way possible. I know we have jobs and don’t have time to research each prospect as much as these guys, but serious scouting is hard work and even then every prospect has a good chance of flaming out for some unforseen reason. There are almost no sure things. For every Adrian Peterson, there’s a Cadillac Williams (injury bust) or Ricky Williams (drugs damn near ruined his career – twice).

    Watch these dudes play, identify how they can help the Hawks. These media dudes don’t base their grades on putting them into the Seahawks scheme and the real improvement the squad would get from adding them.

    Identifying a prospect’s role(s) on the defense and how well their particular skill-set will translate to that role is the hardest (most fun) part. It’s why I love Hightower and not Keuchly – I don’t care who’s better at the end of the day. Hightower would be a force as a MLB or SLB, with passrush ability on passing downs (more important/more impact). He is an attacking, aggressive player – a vocal leader and has more potential. Wright could easily fill in at MLB nearly as well as Keuchly and he was a 4th round pick (a reach by ESPN grading standards at that). Keuchly’s position (MLB) doesn’t have the desired impact of that pick. Ray Lewis might, but only if we ran a scheme like the early 2000’s Ravens did or moved Lewis to WLB. The OLB’s are the key second level defender’s in PC’s scheme, so you have to project that with these guys.

    Sorry for the length… I love the draft, and the draft related debate, most of all – just like you guys – I love the Seahawks and the current direction of the team and decided to share where I’m coming from with my opinions on Coples and the draft in general.

  56. Actually, James Carpenter was the starting left guard in week one last season.

    Since they have had a season to observe him, Mr. Happy and Bo have both said that his future may be at guard. I haven’t heard anything from the mouth of Cable on this, but I’ve got to think they wouldn’t be making public statements like this if Cable was dead set that Carp remain at RT.

    Look, I think he could end up an effective bulldozing run blocker at RT who is never above average in pass protection. That’s not a bad thing.

  57. If we could put the heart of Nick Reed into the body of Coples, I’d be hoping that he fell to us in the draft. Since many reports consistently label him a risk (effort, character, heart, guts, etc.), I’m fine passing on his talent.

  58. The heart of Nick Reed is already enshrined in gold over at Field Gulls, I believe. :-)

  59. Stevos–Thanks man.

    Yes, exactly: Carpenter is going to miss the first month of the season, then likely more time getting into game shape. By then, our line will hopefully be gellin’ like magellin’ (whatever that means), so it will be hard for him to provide much to the team besides insurance, and hope for the future. But he will be on this team through his rookie contract, for better or worse.

    As for hope, I dont see a lot of hope for him at RT, but it isnt impossible–just unlikely. Even Carrol mentioned the possibility of moving him to G. After one season, thats a pretty harsh indictment of Carpenters talent, not just a lack of skill. As many others have pointed out, he has slooow feet, lack of pass-pro technique, and a body shaped like a G, not a RT. While its far to early to label him a failure at RT, or a bust, he’s surely been nothing but a big disappointment.

    We would have been far better off to draft Carimi, Moffit in the second, and this year take a first round or second round G. But Cable had to be arrogant and get his guy, the guy NO ONE but Cable beleived had a future as a high-end RT. Kind of like McDaniels wasting a first round pick on Tebow. Sheer arrogance.

    Ive never said Carpenter is a bust, but he was a reach, and so far there is no indication he will ever live up to his draft position. Of course, the only way he does that is to become a perennial Pro Bowl G, or occasional Pro Bowl RT. Pretty tall order.

    I sincerely hope he steps up and becomes a fine RT, or at least a great G. But Im not holding my breath, and I dont think Seattle should pass on DeCastro if he’s available while waiting for Carpenter to put it together. There’s nothing wrong with having one too many G’s–injuries mean you can NEVER have too much depth.

  60. and I stand corrected on where Carpenter started the season. lol. My point was that Cable played him at RT even though he was no where near ready, because that’s where he wants him. But no doubt things change when other guys get injured, etc.

  61. Macabrevity says:

    Agreed there is no sure thing in any draft – but I’m thinking DeCastro and Kuechly come a lot closer than Coples, and are just as talented at their positions.

    I can’t emphasize how much I think the guard position is undervalued. I really feel that a dominant LG will go a long way toward keeping Okung on the field. If any of you guys have ever played O-line next to a less competent player, or even having a number of guys rotating in next to you, you’ll know exactly what I’m talking about. Carp might be that guy, but it will be tough to let DeCastro fall to Arizona if he’s there at 12. Passing on Kuechly wouldn’t bother me nearly as much. MLB isn’t as integral to our defense (or most defenses) as a pass rusher, but I do like the guy.

  62. With all the bashing of Coples, I recall reading that his college was in disarray last season, big scandal with the coach, everything went down the toilet, including Coples play and obviously some of his motivation. But he handled it allright, and is ready to put it behind him, to hear him tell it.

    If Caroll and company want to take a risk with him, with his talent level, Im on board 100%. Talent like his cannot be imitated, not even with Nick Reed’s badass heart. I think they can light a fire under his butt and he’ll be a beast. Im just not sure he’ll even be there at 12. We may not even get a crack at him, Floyd, or DeCastro.

    Coples is less of a reach than Pierre Jean-Paul (or whatever that Giants DE name is) was, and look how that risk turned out.

  63. This isn’t a mock draft as to how I think it’s going play out, it’s a mock as who I’d take if I were GM of each team at that pick…

    1. Indy – Luck, QB
    2. Wash – RGIII, QB
    3. MN – Kalil, LT
    4. Cle – Tannenhill, QB
    5. TB – Richardson, RB
    6. StL – Blackmon, WR
    7. Jax – Floyd, WR
    8. Mia – Reiff, OT
    9. Car – DeCastro, OG
    10. Buf – Martin, OT
    11. KC – Claiborne, CB (Claiborne should have gone higher, but I wouldn’t retrade with any of those picks – for example, Bills have too big a need on the OL, even though Clairborne is a better prospect than Martin).
    12. Sea – What would you GMs do in this situation with the #12 pick? I’d go with Mercilus over Coples.

  64. bayareahawkfan says:

    I am having trouble finding the link as well, but I am certain I recall hearing in the days after Carpenter was picked that the Steelers were going to take him at 31 if he was still on the board.

    So given that he was the guy they evaluated highest, I have no problem with the pick, in spite of missing on Dalton (purportedly Schneider’s desire, overruled by Pete siding with Cable).

    People talk about “reach” as if it’s a qualify able absolute condition based on unchanging, unilaterally agreed-upon variables. In reality, it’s much more complicated as we all (I hope) understand.

    You like a guy, he’s roughly in the range you’re picking, value-wise, and you have reason to believe he’ll be gone before you pick again? Take him. Simple as that.

  65. BobbyK – do you think DeCastro really goes that high? The NFL doesn’t value Guards as highly as this board does.

  66. pabs – I said that if I were the GM for each of those teams in that instance that who I would take.

    Carl Nicks = 5 years, $47.5 million. How did the Saints replace Nicks? By signing Ben Grubbs to a 5 year, $35 million deal.

    I’d say guards are more valuable in the NFL today than they were some years ago.

    I would have mocked DeCastro to the Fish in the above scenario, but they just took a guard/center last year who isn’t as good of a prospect as DeCastro with the 15th pick, so I had them taking a RT who could make a good LT (which they don’t need since they have Long). If they hadn’t just picked Pouncey last year, I’d have had DeCastro going to them. That’s just me.

  67. Actually, I would take DeCastro at #6 for the Rams and let all the experts laugh at me and then in 10 years when they rank DeCastro one of the top 6 players in the draft, I’d remind them what morons they are.

  68. Coples will newer be a reach. He have potential to be 1st pick overall, but show questionable motivation last year. And that is probability to be a bust. JPP was just row talent.

  69. So the NFL values Guards, yet top level Guards are getting the same contract as Red Bryant?

    I went back over the last 10 NFL Drafts and found just 6 Guards taken in the first round, NONE in the top half and no more than 1 each year:

    2011 – 23, Eagles, Danny Watkins
    2010 – 17, 49ers, Mike Lupati (a BobbyK favorite into the draft)
    2007 – 29, Ravens, Ben Grubbs (a BobbyK favorite into the draft)
    2006 – 23, Bucs, Davin Joseph
    2005 – 32, Patriots, Logan Mankins
    2002 – 30, Steelers, Kendall Simmons

    Guards don’t get paid like other positions, they don’t get drafted like other positions and they don’t make the Hall of Fame like other positions. The NFL simply doesn’t value Guards like this board does.

    The NFL is right on this – how many teams have won the Super Bowl the last 10 years with an elite Guard? I can think of the Saints in 2009 and the Steelers in 2005. Were there any others I am missing?

    If DeCastro was taken top 10, it might be the highest Guard selected since ??? (ever?)

  70. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Here is a mock that I would take if I were a GM of each pick.

    1. Indy – Luck, QB
    2. Wash – RG, QB
    3. MN – Kalil, LT
    4. Cle- Richardson, RB
    5. TB – Claiborne, CB
    6. StL – Blackmon, WR
    7. Jax – Coples, DE
    8. Mia – Tannenhill, QB
    9. Car – Kuechly, LB
    10. Buf – Floyd, WR
    11. KC – Decastro, OG

    12. Sea – Trade down and still get Mercilus!

  71. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Pabs- Decastro isn’t just a guard. He can play all interior positions well, and in a pinch play RT.

    You could also say how many teams have won a superbowl in the last ten years with an elite RB? However I doubt that anyone here would argue that Richardson will fall past the tenth pick.

    So what’s your point? Just to try and prove BobbyK wrong? Which is about all I ever see you try to do here, to no avail! Give it up! Lol.

  72. SandpointHawk says:

    Guards picked in the 1st round, first 10 picks in the past 30 years..

    2001, 1st round, 2nd pick, by Cardinals…..Leonard Davis
    1998, 1st round, 7th pick, by Saints, Kyle Turley
    1997, 1st round, 10th pick, by Saints…Chris Naeole
    1996, 1st round, 4th pick by Ravens….Jonathan Ogden
    1993, 1st round, 9th pick by Saints….Lincoln Kennedy
    1986, 1st round, 7th pick,by Chiefs….. Brian Jozwiak
    1986, 1st round, 9th pick by Pitt…John Rienstra
    1985, 1st round, 2nd pick by Pitt…..Bill Fralic
    1983, 1st round 4th pick by Broncos…Chris Hilton
    1982, 1st round 8th pick, by Oilers…..Mike Munchak

    http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?position=OL&type=position

  73. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    like your mock bobbt i think Car. goes DL and Ks takes decastro if anyone. that said if he is there you take him because he is what he is the best interior lineman since hutch”and no one since 2001 has made more probowls than hutch” so knowing that would hutch been the best player to take in that draft? i think so but that’s just me.
    the more tape i watch themore i like ingram over merculis at 12 and i like the isea of hightower if we can trade down. funny thing i don’t think we will be able to trade down.

  74. hawkfaninoklahoma says:

    sandpoint, kennedy was a tackle a damn good right tackle

  75. SandpointHawk says:

    My mistake there was he was drafted by the Falcons not the Saints. I only included those players who were a guard in college and drafted as a guard by the pros. Players like Robert Gallery who were drafted as a tackle in the top ten but were moved to guard were excluded.

    Kennedy was the ninth overall pick in the 1993 NFL Draft taken by the Atlanta Falcons,[3] and he played for the Falcons from 1993 to 1995.[4] He started at left guard throughout his rookie season, but lost the job the following year to another first-year player, Dave Richards out of UCLA. After a disappointing 1995 season, Kennedy was traded to the Oakland Raiders, where he started at right tackle in all but three games of his seven-year tenure there. As a member of the Raiders, Kennedy was named to two consecutive Pro Bowls (three career) and anchored the offensive line in Super Bowl XXXVII.

  76. Hawkeye_33 says:

    Gabe Carimi got hurt in the second game of the season last year so I don’t know how everyone here can evaluate him at all? He may end up being a great player but that is yet to be proven and next year will basically be his rookie season. Honestly if the Hawks would have drafted him all these posts would be about how Carimi was soft and injury prone. Also he was hurt against the Saints so if he never makes it he can blame Gregg Williams bounty program.

  77. pabs – Carl Nicks signed the same contract at Red Bryant? Your world is amazing. What color is the sky, just out of curiosity? Also, you will admit that Red Bryant is the only guy like him that gets that much money, right? How many other run stuffing DEs in the NFL make that much money with NO pass rushing ability? You’re skewing the stats again away from a common sense approach.

  78. Hawkeye – All early-season reports were VERY positive towards Carimi, whereas Carpenter sucked (read above if you think I think he sucks moving forward – I don’t – I just think Carimi is better). BOTH moved from LT to RT so I don’t want any crying about either having moved to a different side either.

  79. Hawkeye_33 says:

    Like I said Carimi could end up being great but he couldn’t finish the second game of the season which is a fact. So after one game he may have been better than Carp but I don’t watch the Bears close enough to know that? All I know is he
    couldn’t make it out of week 2 healthy so any “report” was based on preseason and one and half games. I agree the jury is still out on Carp but it is also still out Carimi. Hell at this point Breno is better than both of them and regardless of Carps health he would have a tough time beating out Breno anyway.

  80. All training camp reports of Carimi were very positive, all the Carp stuff was relatively terrible (aside from that one time he “stonewalled” Big Red).

    Nicks is the poster boy for the overpriced guard, Grubbs is the expensive guard. Big Red is the same for Nicks at what he does. What DE w/no pass rush ability is Grubbs and how much does he make?

  81. GeorgiaHawk says:

    17- days

    12- hours

    50- minutes

  82. I recall that the Packers and Seattle had Carpenter and Sherrod 1,2 in that draft. We took Carp and GB took Sherrod. If Pitt was high on Carp as well I don’t recall that but would not be supprised.

    Sandpoint, what stood out to me in your list was that the 2000’s is when high OG picks seem to stop. I guess you could say that is when the NFL came to the conclusion it was a “passing league”.

  83. Dukeshire says:

    Sac_94 – While Seatle did have a 3rd (Moffitt) your comments about Carpenter just reinforce my point. ((I presume that was your intention)

  84. ruminator1 says:

    nick reed still lives. cut by his 3rd NFL team recently

  85. There is a live fan mock in progress with the Seahawks on the clock till 6PM PT.

    The picks so far are:
    1.Indy Luck QB.
    2.Wash. RG3 QB.
    3.Minn. Kalil OT.
    4.Clev. Richardson RB.
    5.Tampa.Claibourne CB.
    6.St.Louis.Blackman WR.
    7.Jacksonville.Coples DE.
    8.Miami.Tannehill QB.
    9.Carolina.Ingram DE.
    10.Buffalo.Floyd WR.
    11.Kansas City.Kuechly MLB

    And I Proudly cast my vote for David Decastro OG!

    http://www.gbnreport.com

  86. Why gamble at 12? De Castro is a sure thing. If he’s gone, trade down and stockpile.

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