Seahawks Insider

Morning links: McCarthy says Flynn is ready

Post by Eric Williams on March 20, 2012 at 7:30 am with 82 Comments »
March 20, 2012 7:30 am
Green Bay Packers head coach Mike McCarthy, right, talks with quarterback Matt Flynn (10) during an NFL preseason football game against the Kansas City Chiefs in the third quarter Thursday, Sept. 2, 2010, in Kansas City, Mo. The Chiefs won 17-13. (AP Photo/Ed Zurga)

He’s ready. Those were the words of Green Bay head coach Mike McCarthy when asked about the prospects of Matt Flynn moving on and competing for a starting quarterback job at the NFL Scouting Combine last month, which you can check out in my story today.

Here’s McCcarthy: Based on what I see in the everyday classroom, practice field, he’s ready. It’s his time to play. And you don’t ever know. You don’t ever know if a backup quarterback can take that next step and go out and play 16 games.

“I know mentally he’s ready, emotionally he’s definitely ready, but until you play the position and go play those 1,100, 1,200 snaps, that’s when you really find out. And I think Matt’s ready for that.”

Clare Farnsworth of Seahawks.com gets Pete Carroll’s thoughts on the addition of free agent defensive lineman Jason Jones.

Danny O’Neil of the Seattle Times talks with Davis Hsu, a fan of the Seahawks who blogs about the team, about breaking the news that Alex Smith was headed to Miami while riding on the same flight with him from San Francisco. Hsu was on his way to a family vacation cruise to the Bahamas.

Dave Boling of The News Tribune writes that Matt Flynn is a good match for Seattle – he’s young, hungry and on the rise like the rest of the team.

Kevin Calabro and Jim Moore of ESPN 710 AM Seattle interview Matt Flynn in this audio link. It’s worth a listen. They talk about some of the stuff he likes to do in spare time, like fishing on the Mississippi River.

Ian Furness of KJR 950 AM interviews Seahawks general manager John Schneider in this audio link.

Ian Rapoport of the Boston Herald reports that New England signed recently released Seahawks offensive guard Robert Gallery to a one-year deal as insurance with Logan Mankins still recovering from ACL knee surgery.

Former Seahawks offensive linemen Mike Gibson and Steve Vallos sign with Philadelphia.

Rob Rang of NFLDraftScout.com now has the Seahawks selecting Boston College linebacker Luke Kuechly at No. 12 overall.

Chris Egan of King 5 talks with former Seahawks linebacker Dave Wyman about the addition of Flynn to Seattle in the video below.

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  1. Dukeshire says:

    I can’t recall a time when a backup QB got so much love from his former team, after moving on. I really strikes me and I like it. I’m sure it’s happened before but I can’t think of it.

    We were talking about this yesterday, but the more I watch Luke Kuechly’s clips and “game tapes” (Youtube, etc…), the more I like him. I could be comfortable with that pick.

  2. Dukeshire says:

    Let me say too, that at this point, I could be talked into Michael Floyd and / or Michael Brockers. For one reason or another, those seem to be the three main guys I’ve been looking into, lately.

  3. EyeAmBaldman says:

    I like Melvin Ingram, Kuechly, and Whitney Mercilus at 12, too.

  4. Dukeshire says:

    I like Mercilus too, as something of a wild-card at 12. As much of a reach as most mock drafts would have one believe.

  5. I really want the type of player that Ingram, Mercilus, and Perry are supposed to be. I’d really like that versatile (especially Ingram) and dynamic guy on the edge to apply pressure. Clem is on the wrong side of 30 and in a contract year. I watched a few games each (love you can watch an entire game of defensive snaps in 5-10 min) of Ingram and Mercilus last night. The athletic ability of Ingram is crazy and even though he seems to have more flash than Mercilus, the thing that Mercilus does is make a bunch of plays (not that Ingram doesn’t). One thing I noticed about Nick Perry is that, yes, he’s explosive, but I thought he’d play a little faster given his impressive 40 time. In the “games” I watch, there were plenty of times when Ingram and Mercilus lined up at LDE, too, which is what we’d need this year in pass rush situations for Big Red. You can’t ever have too many pass rushers and we simply don’t have enough to begin with so it’d be nice to add at least one early in the draft. Signing Jones really makes it easier to get that edge guy in the draft.

  6. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Wouldn’t that be great if we pick Kuechly at 12, and some how Mercilus falls far enough for us to package our #2 with another pick to get him too!

    Dam Panthers!

  7. Yeah, and if Mercilus turned into a playmaker anything close to last year, it’d be a steal, even though the “experts” would say it was “too early.”

    The stat that someone pointed out to yesterday (I think) was that he had all those forced fumbles, in addition to the sacks. I’d much rather force a fumble than get a sack. No question. When you get a sack, the other team loses 5-10 yards. That’s it (which is still good). But a fumble gives you a chance to take the ball and even if you don’t recover it, they still lose the 5-10 yards.

  8. hawkfan777 says:

    I still cant believe how many reporters have called the Flynn signing a “leap of faith”, “an expensive risk” or “overspending”. When I look at what teams have spent on 1st round picks this deal looks like an extreme bargain to me. If the Seahawks give him 2 years and find out he is a bust it will cost them roughly 12 million and no picks. Look how much the Seahawks have spent in the past on 1st round players like Aaron Curry or free agents like Sidney Rice, Robert Gallery or even Zach Miller. To me the risk is low when you look at the position and the value of a potential franchise QB who is 25 years old. You also look at his training and this guy has been groomed by the same coach who also groomed Brett Favre, Matt Hasselback and Aaron Rogers.

    I think the Seahawks front office made a very calculated risk and even if Flynn doesnt work out it is hard to say that this was a bad decision. I would rather have them go this route than draft a QB in the first round (and lose the ability to get an impact defensive end or other)and have that QB disappear into oblivion within a year or two.

  9. Soggybuc says:

    Come on Shiancoe and Bush, time to jump aboard the Super Bowl Train!
    And I think all the good things from McCarthy and Rodgers seem genuine. think we got us a very good QB in the fold now.

  10. I can’t wait to see Flynn play this fall. It’s like having a first round QB. You don’t know if he’s going to be a stud or a dud. I just have a good feeling about Flynn. I think he’s going to surprise a lot of people. Whatever happens, I’m glad that the Seahawks have taken a shot.

    I know no one’s picking the Seahawks to win the Super Bowl this year, but stranger things have happened in the NFL. If the defense becomes Top Five (drafting a stud LB would help), it might just happen. This could be the year! (Yes, I’m drinking the kool aid.)

    My dream is for the Seahawks to beat Eli Manning in the NFC Championship Game and Peyton Manning in the Super Bowl. That would be incredible, especially since Peyton spurned the Seahawks.

  11. FleaFlicker says:

    Amen to that, hawkfan. Any change at the QB position requires some risk. Hands down, signing Flynn gives us a potential winner without betting the house. Even if Flynn doesn’t work out, he still represents the most judicious move the team could make in the current market for QBs.

    Only six months until the season starts!

  12. ryanryan says:

    now that i know kuechly is a back up long snapper, i’m in :D

  13. ryanryan says:

    hopefully smith will make the strides at lb that kam did at ss…how freaking sweet would that be?

  14. I like Smith. I think he can/will. I’m not really worried about WILL because of him. Sure, I’d like depth, but I’m not hoping for his position early in the draft when we could go in another area that I perceive as a bigger need.

  15. seahawk44 says:

    Canfan ….I like your dream! Add to it beating the 49ers to win the division and beating the Packers in the 1st round.

  16. seahawk44 says:

    BobbyK ….I’m not sure I’ve heard your take on Kuechly.
    Personally, I want him badly. But I think he may be gone at 12.

  17. seahawk44 says:

    Kuechly averaged 14 tackles per game in college. That is a ridiculously awesome stat.

  18. Dukeshire says:

    I’m not too interested in Shiancoe. His best days are behind him, and I just don’t see him being dynamic enough enough to really contribute in a meaningful way, here, IMO.

  19. Dukeshire says:

    seahawk44 – That includes 8 solo per. Now THAT’S impressive.

  20. My only question mark on Flynn is that the Packer MO is to protect value on any player they believe has value to the organization. Whether that is as a player or a compensational value they hold those guys close. Packers most often allow players to UFA that they believe can provide return in some way. With Flynn they did not do so.

    Last year may have shown them there was no trade interest in him or, they may just want to let him land where he wants out of respect due to his contribution. I hope it is the latter.

    Listening to all the opinions on Flynn I come away with one conclusion and that is,,,he was the best point guard/game manager available for the right amount of money that would let the FO build the franchise.

    The question remains as to whether that approach leads to championships “forever”.

    Hope so!

  21. *can not provide

  22. I like him fine. I just don’t like the position with the #12 pick when the top pass rushers, on average, usually demand picks in the first half of the first round. Yes, we can talk about Jared Allen and Michael Strahan and plenty of others who rush the passer who weren’t picked extremely early in the draft, but it the dynamic pass rushers, on average, were usually higher picks (and I know the 49ers have no regrets about Pat Willis early in the draft). If we take him, I’ll be a big fan. I just want that edge rusher who has some potential dynamic ability to get to the QB.

  23. piperfeltcher says:

    Not a fan of Shiancoe rather see them bring in a TE who’s strength is blocking as already have 3 pass catching TE’s on the roster. Although McCoy was more of a pass dropping TE last year.
    Out of all the DE’s I like Perry the best. But would still rather resign Clemmons and use the pick on another position. If we draft a DE in the 1st I do not see the Hawks bringing Clemmons back next year and I think that would be a mistake.

  24. Obviously, I’ve been pushing Kuechly. I don’t think we’ll have any regrets. I think he’d be one of those rare LBs you could get, and at this point, I’ve been worrying about him going earlier. Most mocks show the Eagles getting him behind us, but there are a couple of teams that might like him enough…

    I also like Floyd a lot too. Less of a need, but with everyone so big on Blackmon, I don’t think many realize Floyd may be better in the NFL. Look at who was throwing to Blackmon, then look who was throwing to Floyd. Also, Blackmon was a size mismatch in college, but that won’t be as big of an advantage in the NFL. Floyd has size, but he’s faster and I think he’s got more talent.

    It will be very interesting who is available at #12. This could be a big BPA year. At least we don’t have to waste time with QB speculation anymore. Right Duke? ;-)

  25. JazBadAzz says:

    Donte’ Hightower will be a better pro than Kuechly, he thumps people hard! Watch the tape of him, its a lot to get excited about. He’s big and bad! But I guess it would be like comparing zach thomas vs patrick willis. One won’t over whelm you but get it done. And the other will pop you in the mouth and dare you to run that play again. Hightower played against top competion everyday in practice (Trent Richardson) and I’m sure his transition won’t be a shock to the senses. Kuechly is graded out higher because he just top of the charts smart, that’s it.

  26. piperfeltcher says:

    Love the fact you can go to Youtube and watch footage on almost all the top draft prospects. Watching Kuechly the thing that stood out was how quietly he puts up the stats. He does not make the amazing play and you hardly notice him but after every play he is getting up off the guy he tackled. He looked far more athletic at the combine then he looks watching him play. I think the question with him is it the system that allowed him to put up the stats or is he so good he just makes it look easy and is in position so he does not have to make the amazing play.

  27. But even with Clem, we don’t have enough good pass rushers. Our pass rush sucks even with him. I know Jones will give a boost at the 3 but can’t imagine that he alone will turn this defense into sack machines. We don’t have pass rush ability from the spot vacant by Big Red in obvious pass rush situations and that hurts, too. If anything happened to Clem, think how screwed we’d be with our pass rush. We need a pass rushing DE or OLB/DE in a bad way. I think this is, by far, our biggest need right now. I’m not as worried right now about MLB just b/c there are so many still available in FA, wheras there aren’t any dynamic pass rushers availalbe and if there was, he’d be really rich right about now.

  28. piperfeltcher says:

    Not a fan of Floyd at 12 but then I would not be a fan of any WR at 12.

  29. Dukeshire says:

    rgbuckl – Right!

  30. Dukeshire says:

    I would count on Jones playing a ton at 3-tech. That’s why I like Brockers. And Mercilus is such an intriguing prospect. He has so much, physically, of what Carroll likes. 12 might be too early, but his upside is through the roof.

  31. I’d be fine with Mercilus at #12.

  32. piperfeltcher says:

    I agree even with Clem we need passrush but is a 1st round pick worth using if all we are looking for is a situational passrusher to spell Red? And if they use a 1st on a DE then let Clemmons walk next year then at best you are just replacing the position and not upgrading it. Would like to see them get some more pass rush from there LB’s and bring in a guy who is a good passrusher in the 3rd or 4th round to spell Red.

  33. JazBadAzz says:

    The LB pursuit in free agency has been cold because the rookie LB are deep and very talented this years draft. We can easily find starters in the 3rd and 4th rds.

    Sam acho from texas would fit in great, and I bet Earl would love it!

  34. I fear what our pass rush would look like if Clem got hurt and we didn’t draft a pass rusher early. The Giants get more pass rushers than they need and it’s worked out pretty well for them. I don’t want to think we have one good so we should look somewhere else.

  35. Maybe Red Bryant somehow develops some pass rush abilities. He seems to grow every year as a player.

  36. Dukeshire says:

    You mean Emmanual Acho? I’d be surprised if Seattle selected a Will with Malcolm Smith on the roster. And actually, I think he’d be a better 3-4 inside guy, but you never know.

    Seattle will clearly look to improve the pass rush, but at which position is the larger question.

  37. ChrisHolmes says:

    The reality is, with Big Red on the squad, any pass rusher we acquire will be “situational”. Red’s going to play snaps. That’s a given.

    So you have to ask yourself: do you want to use your first pick in the draft on a guy who will play limited snaps, or do you want more snaps out of that selection?

    And even then, there are other considerations. What happens if Red gets hurt early in the year? Can the guy you pick at #12 take over more of the load? Is the kid a long-term answer at end?

    I know Seattle needs more pass rush in a bad way, but I am not sure the 12th overall pick is the spot to get it, considering the makeup of the team.

    I’m actually more concerned with our WR. Rice can’t stay on the field. BMW lacks consistency. Baldwin is the only guy I really trust. Problem with picking a WR at #12 is that WR’s generally take a year or two before they produce.

    I’m just not sure that anyone we pick at #12 in the draft is going to contribute much to this team this year.

  38. Dukeshire says:

    If Red could develop even a modicum of consistent pressure, it would transform the entire defense.

  39. Great article, Eric. Thanks. Great inside stuff.

    Some of what Pete Carroll said in his radio interview this morning on 710:

    “In his evaluation, Matt knocked it out of the park and did everything we hoped he would show us.”

    “I hope you realize by now that everything we do is a competition. The jury is still out on our quarterback situation. We will try to give each guy equal snaps thought preseason. But lining guys up with the same personnel to equally evaluate them is harder than you would think.”

  40. piperfeltcher says:

    I agree the passrush would be nonexistant without Clemmons. I think Clemmons is among the best DE right now. He is the Hawks only passrusher so he see’s a lot of double teams and still gets his sacks while being solid against the run. He is also versatile haveing played LB and can drop off and cover.
    I am joining the draft DeCastro camp as the line looks weak to me and I know Cable is a great coach but Okung,McQ,Unger,Moffitt,Gia does not cut it.

  41. JazBadAzz says:

    I bet Red watch the films with the coaches and is gearing up to get after the qb. He has good moves but not enough speed to get there, they all ways side steps him. I don’t think he will settle for just being a run stuffer. I bet he is better this year, he’s just to hungry to be mediocre!

  42. HawkfaninMT says:

    I’ve been high on Mercilius since before the bowl games, hoping we could get him in the 2nd. I don’t see it happening though. I feel like it will be our first or we don’t get him.

    I like that there are so many options for the Hawks. Really makes teams want to trade up ahead of to get the guy they want, or trade with us preferably. Kuelechy is someone the Eagles may trade up for, Decastro is someone lots of teams may want to jump ahead of the Cards and Boys to get. If Richardson were to fall there would be a fair amount of interest as well. Trading with any of these teams would still allow the Hawks to get a player they want

  43. piperfeltcher says:

    I hope the Hawks can pick up a older pass rusher for cheap who is cut closer to the season much like the did with Brock and use there high picks somewhere else.

  44. JazBadAzz says:

    Duke, you right about the name but wrong about the position…the kid can play anyone of the LB spots 3-4 or 4-3….he’s better suited to play olb and rush the passer and he is still good at dropping into coverage…I watch games don’t care what the scouts write, they’re normally wrong imo.

  45. piperfeltcher says:

    I am hoping NE wants to trade up and gives the Hawks there 2 1st ‘s for the 12th. It is a deep draft would be lots of good players at the end of the 1st.

  46. ChrisHolmes: “do you want to use your first pick in the draft on a guy who will play limited snaps, or do you want more snaps out of that selection?”

    That makes a lot of sense as far as building the defense, but I think when looking at a team ready to take the next step to playoffs, and looking at a #12 draft pick, they should be looking at one thing: Impact.

    I don’t care how many snaps a guy gets if he produces pressure on most third downs, gets in the opposing QBs head, and has a couple of game-changing sacks per game, that’s the guy I want.

  47. JazBadAzz says:

    Let’s give the Donkeys a 7th rd pick for Tebow and move him to TE/LB and be a gunner on special teams…

    This would accomplish 2 things.
    1. Our team would be blessed to avoid injuries
    2. It would bring the media to us and they would start to appreciate us more and expand the seahawks fanbase (we really need more of a national following). I’m the only fan far and wide where I’m from, but it don’t bother me because after this year there will be a ton! Lol

  48. Ewalters7354 says:

    I believe Bruce Irvin would be a great addition to the hawk in the later rounds.He is a beast rushing the passer.Similar to an Aldon Smith

  49. Jaz, I don’t think I could handle TebowMania in Seattle. I think Denver’s coaching staff will be happy if they can trade him away. What a distraction.

  50. Look at it this way…

    We have Clem at one end and Big Red at the other. That’s it as far as being able to count on (sure, I know Branch/Jones can kick out, but I don’t see them providing a pass rush at end).

    We have two tackles; Okung and Breno. Nobody else sees the field unless there’s an injury. The back-up will not play. It’s the starters who go the full game.

    Defense is different. You can’t say we have Clem and Red so we don’t need anyone else. If you play a 4-3, you need more than 4 players to contribute every game even if you have no injuries. Good teams can rotate people in and out to help keep them fresh and even more effective. Clem played a lot last year b/c he had to, but he would have been more effective, IMO, if he had more of a breather here and there. If he sat 5-10 snaps, he’d have been better b/c he’d have been fresher. If you agree that you need 6 good DL to rotate in and out during a game, you pretty much need 6 starters (even though a couple of them don’t “start”). We do not have that. We have 5 with Clem, Mebane, Branch, Jones, and Big Red (and 3 of those 5 are set to become free agents after the season). That isn’t good enough, especially with only one of them being legit at rushing the passer. It’s almost like saying if you have two good CBs that you don’t care about depth because they aren’t starters. When you need a nickel back, if he sucks, he’s going to get picked on and that’s not going to help you win. If we continue with no pass rush from the 5, that’s like playing with a crap nickel CB if you get what I mean. Look, I’m not advocating a nickel CB at #12. All I’m saying is that adding a OLB/DE type of player at #12, even if he doesn’t start, is worth it. He’s going to play “starter” type of snaps for a DL probably and he’s an impact player too, as we all know how important it is to upgrade the pass rush.

  51. Dukeshire says:

    Jaz – He’s going to have to get a whole lot bigger and stronger to be effective at Sam or Mike in a 4-3. I’ve watched a ton of Texas’ games as well, and you’re right, he played multiple positions, but on Sundays’ he won’t be facing Rice or Kentucky or Baylor. I like him, but believe he’s best position in the ‘Hawks system is weak-side LB. I’ll agree he could play the weak-side in a 3-4 as well. I just don’t think he’s a natural fit for Seattle’s D.

  52. Dukeshire says:

    Bobby – I think that’s why Jones was brought in; to provide pressure at LDE and possibly at 3-tech, in passing situations.

  53. HawkfaninMT says:

    I think people looking at that 4th round pick for our WLB are looking in the right spot. thats where you will probably see Irvin get drafted, Sean Spence, and maybe Danny Trevethan out of Kentucky. Alll could be good to great WLB in our system from what I can understand of it.

    In a good Defensive draft I could see us taking Coples, Kendricks, Trumaine Johnson, and Sean Spence

  54. Jones was brought in on a one-year contract. I would assume that means they will replace him as fast as they can. I wouldn’t mind seeing him knocked off the roster before the season even starts. For instance, if an impact pass rusher like Coples or Upshaw is there in the draft, I would be all over that.

    But I’ll bet Flynn and TJack wouldn’t mind having another big tall WR.

    All the talk about a LB at #12 makes me a little nervous.

  55. I’m hoping for a pass rusher in the first two rounds as it’s still the premium position on that side of the ball. Ingram and Merculius are my favorites, but I’d be happy with Coples or Perry. Or maybe even Upshaw. I love his game, and prefer his body of work compared to Kuechly but Upshaw may not be all that fast in the NFL to be much of a pass rusher. I really like Andre Branch in the second or Cam Johnson later as pass rush specialists IF they go LB or something else in the first.

  56. I just want someone who can get after the QB first and foremost. There are still some good MLBs available in free agency and you never know, Heater could find that he’s not getting blown away with any offers and want to come back if he hasn’t been offered much more from somewhere else. A Wright-Heater-Smith trio at LB would be fine with me and, I think, eliminate the talk/need about LB at #12.

  57. Dukeshire says:

    I would welcome Hawthorne back with open arms. But for the moment, I’m proceeding as though he’s gone.

  58. I don’t think the market is going to let him cash in the way he thought possible a few months ago. I’d be great to have him back! With each day that passes, I think he gets closer to, in fact, coming back.

  59. chuck_easton says:

    Well,

    PFT just reported that Heater is on a plane to Detroit right now and may not have heard that the Lions re-signed Tulloch. Could be the shortest FA visit in history.

    So either he accepts whatever the Saints are offering or he comes back. Chances just rose that we might again be in the running.

  60. SandpointHawk says:

    Thanks Chuck_ E

  61. Stevos–I dont think Seattle wants to dump Jones after a year, not if he plays well. They werent willing to give him a longterm big money deal–no one was–but they still wanted him badly. He signed for one year so if he plays the way he and Seattle hope, somone–hopefully Seattle–will give him the longterm big money deal he wants.

    He isnt old. Would be nice to have another stud DT. And a DE with pass rush skills. The Giants have proven how awesome it is to have multiple badasses on the D-line.

    I dont get how so many people lately have been saying Red Bryant has no pass rush skills. He gets pretty good pressure, he just cant run down todays athletic qb’s. He flushed guys out of the pocket a lot last year, but when youre 330 lbs you aint gonna run down Alex Smith or Aaron Rogers or even Vince Young very darned often.

  62. oscar_contender says:

    1st Rd: BPA (DE) Perry, Ingram, Mercilus, etc.
    or trade down

    2nd Rd: Levonte David :)

    3rd Rd: I had Cousins, but with Flynn in my 4th rd projection of a playmaking WR or RB moves up

    A LB in the top 15 is high to me, and after Curry I would be wary of getting one. PASS RUSH is most important in my eyes. Go Hawks!

  63. Keuchly is entirely overrated. He is not physical at the LOS and generally makes tackles after a 4-5 yard gain. He does not read the pass zones well either. TE’s found the seam easily and QBs picked on him in the clips I’ve seen by just looking off their receiver. Clemson specifically destroyed him and I didn’t think Tahj Boyd was known for his passing efficiency or craftiness. He is more similar to Isaiah Kaz than Lofa where he makes his tackles (downfield). And considering his limited athleticism, he needs to be on Lofa’s level with regards to recognition and reaction time – he doesn’t seem to be.

  64. Soggybuc says:

    Nice find Skavage Thanks, Luke is an interesting player because your gut tells you no on a LB that high but he certainly looks to be a Urlacher, Thomas or Willis kind of talent that could man the middle for years to come.
    Luke, KJ and Smith. thats a talented young group.

  65. Dukeshire says:

    I’ll admit to seeing him play hardly at all, this year. But from all the clips and videos I’ve seen he shows great awareness in zone coverage (might be his greatest strength), is incredibly patient and gap disciplined, shows great quickness, and sheds blocks really well. I’ve been really impressed with everything I’ve seen. Plus is tall (nearly 6’4″) and long, which Carroll really seems to value.

  66. “And considering his limited athleticism, he needs to be on Lofa’s level with regards to recognition and reaction time – he doesn’t seem to be.”

  67. Sorry, the quote above is from Sac_94. And after watching the Clemson video, I’m inclined to agree with him. Lofa was a second round pick. Taking Keuchly at No. 12 would be way too high.

  68. Palerydr says:

    That’s the first negative comments I’ve seen from anybody regarding Kuehly I’m inclined to go with the majority not the minority. Watch the guy on tape and he makes plays side line to side line. I’d take him at #12 NP.

  69. Duke, I generally agree with you on everything… so this is tough.

    Tall, long, strong are attributes I agree with. This helps him shed blocks very well, but also causes leverage problems on a few plays I saw where he is cleared out by a player getting under him. Patient or indecisive is really in the eye of the beholder, but he does not attack the line of scrimmage at all, which allows for blockers to position themselves leaving him to scramble and bring backs down after a gain. I don’t see his zone awareness, I did see him in zone a lot – usually getting beaten. He reacts fine, but does not anticipate well.

    Watch the Clemson tape… First the positives… 0:37, 1:15, 5:02. Not many – on to the negatives… Beaten by pass at 0:16, 0:41, 3:53, 4:41. He did not factor positively on ANY passing plays. Slow to react and missed one on scrambling QB at 2:07, 3:05, 3:49. Blocked easily at 0:30, 1:00, 2:31, 2:55, 3:30, 5:43, 6:56. Tackles after decent gains (Kaz style) at 1:27, 2:07, 2:48, 3:35, 5:39, 6:36, 6:43. Missed tackle results in first down at 5:58.

    He does not rate a 1st round pick at all IMO, his stats are a result of playing time and defensive scheme. He drag tackles a lot, pops guys sometimes – but generally makes his tackles downfield, he is not an upgrade.

  70. I think his tape shows that he can indeed get from sideline to sideline in college (albiet 5 yards or more downfield). But, in the NFL he’d be too late to factor on those plays. All of those sideline tackles were by committee. That “committee” in the NFL is going to be a lot faster than his BC teammates were, so he would at best pile on or get a kill shot ala Aaron Curry.

  71. Dukeshire says:

    Hey, no worries. In fact I nearly posted something to be effect that two people can see the same thing and interprete it totally different.

    Not attacking the line, from what I saw, was a scheme issue. None of the LB “attacked” the line, but state in their lanes and maintained their gaps. I saw this over and over, that’s why I think that.

    I watched the Clemson tape. And he certainly allowed the TE to get behind him for the short TD, I was overall impressed with his range in that game. Number to number.

    I will say that he appears to me, to be incredibly disciplined. That is he knows his landmarks and gets to them, withou fail. The big question here is, does that mean he cannot play with feel, or antisipation, as you call it? That may be. And since
    I really didn’t see him play games live as I said, I don’t have a sense of that. And that would be a real concern. We agree here.

    And understand, I’m not advocating him, nor am I convinced he’d be worthy of #12. But I am impressed, and have no doubt he’ll make a great pro. A more fluid Zack Thomas, maybe…?

  72. Dukeshire says:

    He averaged 8 solos a game. That’s amazing, and the anthisis of Aaron Curry.

  73. Palerydr,
    I couldn’t believe that I was the first to question Keuchly’s play making ability… So I looked at a couple other sites and discovered I am not. Rob Stanton at Seahawks Draft Blog (among many commenters) agree he is not worthy of #12.
    From Rob’s blog:

    Kuechly isn’t a pass rusher and although he’s totalled incredible tackle numbers at Boston College, he doesn’t make enough plays in the backfield to warrant such a high pick. Seattle’s biggest issue on defense is a total reliance on Chris Clemons for pressure and they must find more pass rushers. Whether it’s another player who can rush the edge or an outside linebacker who can cause some problems, the Seahawks need to spend the #12 pick on a prospect that will help create more pressure. This front office has found production in former UDFA David Hawthorne, 4th round pick KJ Wright and 7th round pick Malcolm Smith. Simply put, middle linebacker’s aren’t worth the #12 pick unless they’re called Ray Lewis. Kuechly will be a fine, unspectacular pro at the next level and whoever drafts him probably won’t regret it. However, the Seahawks are unlikely to draft a defensive player who won’t tangibly improve the team’s pass rush in 2012.

  74. Dukeshire says:

    Stanton’s argument isn’t an inditement of Keuchly, but rather a comment on need for Seattle. Different story. I know that wasn’t directed necessarily a me, but still… Of course, I’m hoping Heater re-signs, as I’ve mentioned. But Keuckly is an impressive LB and I like him.

  75. Dukeshire says:

    And I’ll say that in re-reading Staton’s backhanded analysis of him, I look forward to re-visiting those comments and finding out how “unspectacular” he became. Ho ho…

  76. Duke, Maybe Curry was a step too far, but I think his 8 tackles a game (in college) are misleading and a key factor into the hype machine. He will not beat Kam, Earl, and KJ to the ballcarrier on the outside in the NFL, so subtract at least 3-4 a game. Beyond that, BB and Sherman will clean up those bubble screens themselves, no help necessary. Think about the Hawks roster and their style of play – Hawthorne is not a two-gap read and react MLB. He attacks and fills his gap, which is what the scheme requires. Keuchly doesn’t play that way, he will have a steep learning curve to play on this defense.

    Duke, Palerydr,
    I think we can certainly disagree when projecting potential… it is after all impossible to know for sure what will happen. Besides, we can all probably agree that PC will pick the right guy to man the middle, whoever that is. And we’ll all be stoked about our new MLB, maybe even pumped.

  77. Dukeshire says:

    I’m not intately familiar with BCs scheme, but yes, they certainly play their inside ‘backers well off he line. They seem to run a sort of nickel package as their base. In short, it’s a different scheme. But seeing him break on ball carriers and passes both, I have no concern he’ll be able to effectively stick his nose into the gaps and attack LOS.

    We all better hope Seattle’s corners get to screens (bubble, halfback, and otherwise) before a Mike ‘backer. As for beating Kam and Earl to the ball carrier, there are simply too many variables to consider, to really engage that conversation.

    Let’s remember too, Seattle requires their Mike to not only contain the strong side, A and B gap lanes on runs, but be an effective zone reader in nickel. And that’s where you and I differ again; I believe he’s very solid in pass pro.

    And the 8 tackle average were solo tackles. If I’m not mistaken, he averaged 14 total. And both of those are career averages, not one year wonder stuff. That’s ridiculous.

    Regardless where we come out on him; despite our differing views, I love the civil and thoughtful debate. Thanks and cheers.

  78. Duke,

    Variables are what makes scouting an art and not a science. The ability to transition what happened (play by play) in college games to the NFL game and NFL level competition/teammates is what makes good franchises pick winners and the Dolphins suck. Our scouting and FA moves have been mostly spot on, so I fully trust our staff to do the right thing at MLB, or SLB if Wright moves over.

    The rest of this is just my opinion: I see Keuchly play and see lots of red flags; some others see greatness. Some see the next Brian Urlacher; I see a bigger Isaiah Kacyvenski. Surely, he falls somewhere in between – but the position will be fine without him, I just think getting an impact player in the top of the 1st round is more valuable.

    Based on the scheme we’ve seen since PC arrived, we simply do not feature the position like BC did, MLB is a role player on PCs defense not the “funnel guy”. The featured positions are WLB, LEO, 3-tech, and FS here. This defense demands talent at those 4 positions specifically to succeed (I think we have just gone 3-4, with the addition of Jason Jones). WLB is the one shortfall, I’m betting that it will not be viewed as a shortfall come September… This is part of the reason, I’m not as sold as most are with our interest in Upshaw or Coples. I wouldn’t rule out Brockers to double up on 3-tech, reach for a WR, trade down for (or reach for) Mychael Kendricks.

    I think regardless of who starts at MLB or WLB, bringing back Matt McCoy would be a huge boost. Not as the starter, but in rotation and nickel/dime packages he brings a lot to the table.

    Like I said before though, I have confidence PC/JS will get it right and that’s all that really matters.

    This has made my work shift more interesting… thanks!!

  79. Dukeshire says:

    Preaching to the choir, there. The variables are what make your statement about Earl an Kam getting to to ball before Kuechly far too nuanced to discuss it thoroughly in this type of a forum. In short: you don’t know that. And I can’t think of a system where the Mike funnels anything.

    I will say that Carroll is not going to a 3-4. It was a significant adjustment for him to shift to an over front last season, and eliminate the Leo position, and place Clem into a more traditional RDE role. And especially with the addition of Wash, they are firmly entrenched in the 4-3.

    In any case, as I’ve said, not advocating him at 12, but too, he will be a better player on Sundays than you think, IMO. Of course, all conjecture until it happens.

  80. I dont have as educated opinion on Kuechly as Dukeshire, Sac_94, et. al, but I have to say that the whole Aaron Curry thing taught us all something important. When evaluating a player–especially LB or DT, you must know what thier college defensive scheme called for them to do on any given play. Was Kuechly supposed to fill gaps or be patient? Was he usually where he was supposed to be? Were his lack of explosive, game changing plays due to lack of athleticism, lack of aniticipation, or simply because the defensive scheme called for him to do what he did?

    These questions are tough to get honest answers to, and what the scouts and FO have to figure out. I cant make a determination one way or another. I just fervently hope whoever Seattle picks is an impact player. I dont think Upshaw is fast enough to be that in the NFL. I would prefer Ingram.

  81. Dukeshire says:

    STTBM – Agreed. And I think that’s why Sac_94 and I see him a bit differently; trying to understand BCs scheme and projecting his stills within that. It’s fun, actually to try and break down scheme for me, but it requires some “guesswork” as you note.

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