Seahawks Insider

Take of the week: Manning in charge

Post by Eric Williams on March 7, 2012 at 10:55 am with 39 Comments »
March 7, 2012 10:55 am
Indianapolis quarterback Peyton Manning directs traffic.(AP Photo/Nam Y. Huh, File)

Editor’s note: This is a format where frequent contributors to the comments section of the Seahawks Insider blog are offered a forum to voice their opinion on a specific topic of choice involving the Seahawks. Submissions are read and edited beforehand.

This is the third of four pieces where Bob Kaupang offers his opinion on the quarterback options for the Seahawks.

By Bob Kaupang
(Bobby K)

How would fans of the Seattle Seahawks react if Tarvaris Jackson was traded to the New Orleans Saints for Drew Brees?

Would Seahawk fans be mad that Brees would cost about $15-$18 million more per season than Jackson was set to earn? Would Seahawk fans be mad that all of that money wouldn’t be available for additional help on the team, such as a premium pass rusher in free agency?

Would Saints fans be excited at the prospects of adding $15-18 million more to their payroll for other non-quarterback positions to improve the rest of the team? Would that $15-18 million spent on other areas overcome the cost of losing their franchise quarterback?

As we know, Drew Brees has received the franchise tag and cannot negotiate with any other team in the league. We also know there’s no chance that Brees will end up in Seattle next season (especially straight up for Tarvaris Jackson!).

However, lets speculate and play the “What if?” game.

What if all recent reports of optimism with respect to Peyton Manning are correct? What if Peyton Manning will soon be healthy? What if Peyton Manning is close to his former self by the time training camp begins?

Drew Brees and Peyton Manning are franchise quarterbacks, but the difference is that Manning will soon be available. He won’t cost any draft picks, “just” money.

Anyone who says they aren’t interested in paying someone the kind of money Manning may cost would also be the same person who thinks that Brees should be traded because he’s asking for too much.

That doesn’t make sense. If you have a chance at greatness, you need to have the courage and the guts to go for the gusto.

This isn’t meant to be a reckless analysis of why the Seahawks should sign Manning. If team doctors don’t believe in him and would not recommend signing him, then I wouldn’t either.

However, if the thought process is that he’s going to be healthy, then that’s a different story.

Does Peyton Manning fit this offense? Since he doesn’t fit it perfectly, does that mean Seattle should pass on him?

Good coaches know that you put players in a position to succeed. There’s no reason the offensive staff and Manning couldn’t work together to put the best product on the team possible.

It’s not like the offense would drastically change from the philosophy of being a team that wants to run the ball. It wouldn’t. It’s just that when the Seahawks threw the ball, they could do that, too.

Good coaches also know that you need talent to win. I believe Pete Carroll is a good coach. However, the fact of the matter is that the Seahawks haven’t had a winning record in the two years he’s been in Seattle.

Peyton Manning would change that. Great players like Manning make everyone around them better and you can bet that an on-field general like him would help reduce the number of penalties the Seahawks had too many of last season as well.

The Seahawks didn’t have any fourth quarter comeback wins last year. If your philosophy is to run the ball and play good defense, then you know you are going to play in plenty of close games, especially in the play-offs.

When you are in those close games, you need more from the quarterback position than was received this past season.

How comfortable would Seahawk fans be if they needed a touchdown to win the game with two minutes remaining and 75 yards to go with Peyton Manning?

How about asking the same question with Tarvaris Jackson? Perhaps there’s a reason one is worth $4 million and the other $20+ million? If you want to win, sometimes you need to pay the price to put yourself in the best possible situation to earn a Lombardi Trophy.

Whether Tarvaris Jackson or Peyton Manning is the Seahawks starting signal caller when the 2012 season begins, I think all Seahawk fans will agree that it would be ideal if an early round draft pick were used on another quarterback.

This rookie, preferably someone picked in the 2nd or 3rd round (so the 1st round pick could be used on a pass rusher), would hopefully be the future quarterback of the Seattle Seahawks.
Instead of viewing Manning as a “band-aid” for 2-3 years, he should be viewed as someone who will give this franchise the best possible chance to win a Super Bowl the next few seasons AND someone who will best help develop the young quarterback the Seahawks are about to draft next month.

I don’t think there is any question that a young, talented rookie would learn more from Manning than anyone else in the NFL. Just because the Colts never had a talented back-up to Manning, it doesn’t mean the Seahawks should do the same thing at this point in his career.

If the Seattle’s medical staff is confident that Peyton Manning is healthy enough to resume his NFL playing career at a high level, would you feel more comfortable with a franchise quarterback, like Manning, who makes a lot of money or someone who
doesn’t, like Tarvaris Jackson?

I hope it doesn’t take you long to answer that question.

Leave a comment Comments → 39
  1. Peyton, no question

  2. ryanryan says:

    like i’ve said, i would rather get manning than flynn. especially if he will sign an incentive based contract and ‘earn’ the rediculous money he should receive if he is fully healed and playing to his potential.

  3. bulldog80 says:

    These opportunities don’t often come along. Three good years would be great, even two would be fantastic. Sign him now

  4. So is he on a private jet to the VMAC yet?

  5. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Just give the whole Offense to Peyton Manning and let him run the show!( Bevell can back off)!

    The key I think for signing Manning is convincing him that the Great North West is a great place for him.

    We have a great salesman in Carroll, so who knows, there is that possibility.

  6. Macabrevity says:

    Well put Bobby K… I like the way you approach the argument.

  7. JazBadAzz says:

    So you guys are cool with 4yr 60mil contract for him?

  8. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Yes JazBadAzz minus the 8 mil that Jackson and Whitehurst collectively would be given.

  9. Palerydr says:

    What motivates Peyton Manning? A desire to win? He has a SB win and another appearance. He has won 10 div titles what more is there to accomplish when it comes to winning? Personnel glory/stats? He is number 3 all time in Td’s and too many others that I can’t be bothered to list. He has IMO not been much of a stat guy anyway not like that prima donna Marino. What will motivate Peyton Manning for his next contract if he signs one? IMO what will motivate him in the coming years is to take a team to another SB victory. Not the playoffs or even just making it there but a victory or 2 would be the goal.

    I’m really not in favor of the Hawks signing Manning but if they did then I’m all in do what it takes to make the offense workable for Manning and the rest of the team. Besides with our defense they should get plenty of time and opportunity to get it right.

  10. FleaFlicker says:

    Jaz, good point. The base, the incentives, the duration, the cap space…the possibilities are endless. What’s the right risk versus reward? How much would he want guaranteed? How much of a discount does his medical condition warrant? How open is he to transitioning the next QB in 2013 or 2014? How open is the staff to Payton’s input?

    Probably one of the most interesting FA situations we’ll see in a long while.

    Eric or BobbyK, any inside knowledge of what his salary demands might be?

  11. With protections regarding his health 4yr 60mil is fine.

  12. FleaFlicker says:

    Paleryder, couldn’t agree more. I think Manning’s one goal is to get that second SB ring. For a man as driven and possessed by the game, I think the money is nice to have, but the accomplishment is paramount.

    Peyton, are you listening? Seattle Super Bowl!!!

  13. bigmike04 says:

    I speak for myself as seahawks fan, that you have to be in it to win it, which means I think is Seahawks would have to be all in to get Peyton Manning as he gives Seahawks the best chance to get to playoff..

    Pete Carroll & John are on yr 3 & if they don’t do something this yr than their going to be on hot seat the following seats..

    Do you honestly believe that Jackson is guy that can be that QB that this team need to succeed because I honestly don’t think Jackson has the balls to be a good QB in NFL..

    Seahawks need to be all in with Peyton Manning race & fact that coaches would benefit from getting Peyton as him & Tom Cable & Darrell Bevell would benefit greatly..

    Go hard or go home

  14. Trufant cut -

  15. Rumor mill has it that Trufant has been let go. Any truth to this Eric?

  16. JohnnyBG says:

    The mistake in your argument is the assumption that the doctors can provide a solid answer regarding Mannings ability to hold up in NFL games. They can’t. Irsay said this a month or two ago:

    “It’s a serious medical thing. It’s a very complicated medical issue. … One of the things is you just haven’t seen this in an NFL quarterback at all. When you try to consult doctors literally worldwide in terms of what are the expectations, what are the dangers, the risks, the aspects of coming back from it, no one can give you a definitive answer.”

    So unless all the bidders in the bidding war are only offering incentive based money, acquiring Manning is going to be a huge risk that will take down whatever team gets him if the risk goes bad. No doctor can tell you otherwise.

  17. chuck_easton says:

    Where does it say Manning comes with a guaranteed superbowl? I keep reading fans comments that if Seattle signs Payton he and we will get that Superbowl trophy.

    Sorry to be ‘debbie downer’ here but even IF Seattle could land Manning, that might add 3 or so more wins. It does not instantly translate to Superbowl.

  18. JazBadAzz says:

    Peyton admitted that he has a long way to go before he is back! That’s scary!

  19. RDPoulsbo says:

    It’s not a matter of where you want Jackson or Manning. Quite frankly, that’s a false choice. As I’ve mentioned in other threads, it’s a question of best fit. Jackson is just a placeholder. I think most people will agree with that. When I say a matter of fit, I’m saying the FO has been bringing in players for every position, not just QB that fit their scheme, not just any guy out there. Manning is not that fit, so if they were to bring him in, they can do either 1: make him change the philosophy that’s made him successful a future HoFer, 2: change the rest of the offense, in which you suddenly have a bunch of players you’ve acquired these past 2 years are no longer fits, or 3: blend the first 2 and change your identity after they’ve finally found it after 1 1/2 seasons of struggling to find one.

    I don’t like any of those situations because they all take more time than Manning has or would result in a mess, which is why my first choice is Flynn. Yes, Flynn is a “system QB,” but one that fits Seattle’s system.

  20. Hypothetically speaking, lets say PM is half of what he used (physically) to be after injury, is that better than a fully healthy Tarvaris? I tend to believe Yes, it would be.

    Chuck, no one can predict a SB is manning comes here, but in the same, you can not say it might only add 3 more wins. No one knows what will happen, i tend to believe we’d be better off with manning and a drafted rookie than Tarvaris and a drafted rookie.

  21. Nobody says that adding Manning is a guaranteed super bowl. But I think a huge majority of people that have an opinion, scouts, fans, experts, coaches, would say that keeping Jackson all but guarantees you won’t make the big game.

    I wouldn’t be against maxing out the credit card/cap the next 3 seasons for Manning as long as protections existed for his health. And I would question why if they didn’t at least give a real long look, assuming they get the opportunity.

  22. 3 more wins gets you in the play offs – expecially if 1 or 2 of them are against division rivals.

    Once you are in the playoffs all bets are off and those who play better then win. EVERYONE has a chance at that point

  23. Palerydr says:

    Hopefully my post doesn’t read Manning = SB win I by no means think that will happen automatically. Please note I am NOT in favor of signing him. I believe it was Duke and RDPoulsbo(sorry if I credited wrong people) both have pointed out, and rightly so, Learning to play inside another’s scheme or having everyone else learn yours is no small task. It could take possibly the first half of the season or more for everyone to get on the same page.

  24. The thing that Manning (if healthy) offers most is hope. Even if it doesn’t happen, there will be legit optimism and hope during the journey.

  25. chuck_easton says:

    Hey, I’m all for hope. I’m just not into that whole unreasonable expectations vibe I’m feeling around here.

    Sure Manning COULD bring us a Superbowl. And if I applied myself and studied real hard and practiced 10 hours every day I may get good enough as a concert pianist to play Carnegie Hall some day.

    But I do have to say Manning and a Superbowl will happen LOOONNGGG before I’m ready for Carnegie.

  26. Agreed Bobby. That is why all Hawk fans that are for PM (and other team’s fans around the league for that matter) have a big grin on their face right now

  27. Dukeshire says:

    From where I sit, hope is in abundance, without the addition of Manning, for the direction this franchise is headed. I’m only for the addition of Manning, if what he brings most, is his previous level of play. And for that, I’m (perhaps unreasonably) skeptical.

  28. Sorry to not be on the Manning bandwagon, but I heard someone on the radio say something like, “We don’t need to think about Red Bryant, we need to be thinking about Manning.” I totally disagree. And this is why I’m not for Manning. It’s gonna be all about Manning. It’s gonna be about his toenails getting dinged up. It’s gonna be about whether he can play if it’s cold. And if he’s unable to play one week that’s what it will all be about. I don’t want that. I want Red. I want our guys built from within. Nothing against Manning as a person or as a player. He’s awesome. But my sense is that if he comes here, the organization will go down the tubes.

  29. What does that mean, my comment is awaiting moderation?

  30. Dukeshire says:

    Good question. That’s new.

  31. SeahawkFan12 says:

    My pro-Manning comment did not make it out of moderation. Great article series, BobbyK. Thanks for nice perspectives on TJx, Flynn and Manning. Well done.

  32. Good posts Bobby. You convinced me Flynn is the way to go. I don’t think we will pay what it takes to get Manning. I also don’t think he will be back to his old form. Can’t wait to see what PC & JS have in store for us.

  33. I think there’s something to what Snappa said above. All focus will be on Manning and that could actually in turn mess the whole chemstry of the team up.

  34. Seahawkfan78 says:

    According to NFL.com – Seahawks contact Manning’s camp; QB on waiver wire

  35. nighthawk2 says:

    If the Saints were that stupid, I’d want us to jump on it in a New York minute. Manning? NO! I do not want a washed up 36 year old with a bad neck/arm/whatever. Why does it having to be a choice between an old injured Manning or Turdvaris Jackson? I want Matt Flynn. Just Say No to Manning. No, no, a thousand times no to Manning. Let him go to Miami. so they lose interest in Flynn and we sign him.

  36. bigmike04 says:

    What so special about matt flynn?? 2 starts in NFL, once when Rodgers was injured & wasn’t medical cleared to play & other when Packers already lock spot in playoff..

    Nothing Matt Flynn did in NFL made him special & all seahawks fans who want him think, he that good of QB is frankly out their minds.

    Peyton vs Flynn: I think Peyton because he more proven as QB while Flynn could be bust as starter..

  37. Dukeshire says:

    I’ve read this several times now and, for what it’s worth, here are my thoughts:

    There isn’t a medical staff on Earth that can assure Manning will be able to resume his career at his previous level, as you suggest there may be. None. Forget the nerve in his right arm, until he takes hits, in live action, nobody can say with certainty he’ll be able resume, at his previous self.

    The Brees being traded / Manning wanting a heafty contract argument is false. It’s not about a blanket contract for two of the best QB of our generation. Re-signing Brees comes without question of health, he’s a bit younger, and his team is not in a full rebuild. Signing Manning to elite QB money comes with knowing you are inking him while he’s still re-habing, a very limited window should he return to health, and adjusting your entire offensive scheme to him (no team in the NFL currently runs anything close to what the Colts did.)

    And lastly: the offense would change dramatically. Of course Seattle will still want to establish and pound the run. But you can sign anyone to hand the ball off. Obviously we’re talking about the passing game. Knowing that, one of two adjustments will have to be made: either allow Bevell to teach Manning his offense, which will take months, if not seasons to fully grasp. Or, turn it all over the Manning, as he was used to in Indy, and presume (hope to hell) the other 10 players are able to adapt. And if he were much younger, this wouldn’t be the issue it is for a 36 year old QB.

    In any case, some counter points and things to consider (or not…).

  38. The team is still in the youth-based rebuilding process with many key players returning from injuries. Tjack is neither horrible nor a top echelon QB. An upgrade there makes sense, but with a player with a probable long future, not with a rehabbing old QB, no matter how good he was in the past. There have not been articles written about how Manning successfully grooms younger QB’s. His talent is unique and largely mental, can that be taught to a totally different individual? Let some other team invest their money for a short term, win now gamble. The Seahawks should stick to developing their own, new, younger players, not seek some miracle from a damaged veteran.

  39. RDPoulsbo says:

    bigmike04, the big difference is one is a 26 year old QB that fits Seattle’s current system and the other is a 36 year old one who’s never played anything close to what Seattle does while coming off 4 surgeries and will be in rehab through a significant portion of the offseason at the very minimum. On top of it all there are still no guarantees he’ll even play again since his doctors have already said there’s no way to know whethe nerve damage in his throwing arm will heal, if at all. In spite of all of his accomplishments, no, Peyton is not proven to be able to play this coming year and that’s what matters for Seattle, not what he did in Indy.

    I’m not going to pretend Flynn is a top 3 QB, but then again, only an extreme few teams have that luxury. When it all comes down to it, this is a team sport and it takes an entire team to get you to a SB, not just a QB. I’ve always felt Flynn was a system QB, Hasselbeck is also a system QB, but they play Seattle’s system, so it works.

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