Seahawks Insider

Rang on Senior Bowl: WR Jones impresses

Post by Eric Williams on Jan. 30, 2012 at 1:17 pm with 97 Comments »
January 30, 2012 1:17 pm
University of Arizona receiver Juron Criner is brought down by Boston College defensive back Donnie Fletcher during the second half of the Senior Bowl. (AP Photo/Dave Martin)

I had a chance to talk with Rob Rang, senior draft analyst for, and get his thoughts on last week’s Senior Bowl, including a couple players who helped themselves heading into April’s draft

And at the top of Rang’s list was Cal receiver Marvin Jones, who he believes elevated his draft stock with a solid performance during practices and in the game on Saturday.

“The one guy that immediately jumps out is Cal wide receiver Marvin Jones,” Rang said. “During the week of practice he was the best receiver on the field. He was kind of thought of as just a guy. A 6-2, 200 pounds, he was a good looking player and caught everything thrown to him.”

However, Jones did suffer a knee injury during the game, which could affect his draft evaluation down the road.

Along with Jones, Rang said fellow Pac-12 receiver Jeron Criner of Arizona played well.

“He had a strong week,” Rang said. “He’s a big, strong kid, and he knows how to position himself when the ball is coming to him. He’s got kind of sneaky speed. He’s a pretty good route runner, and shows a little bit of a burst to get over the top of the defense. He’s a pretty good football player.”

Another player Rang came away impressed with during the week was Boise State defensive end Shea McClellin. At 6-3, 248 pounds, McClellin played exclusively defensive end for the Broncos, but played mostly linebacker during the week of practices at the Senior Bowl and impressed, according to Rang.

“There was a buzz about him,” Rang said. “I was stunned at how well he played in coverage.”

Rang said he had McClellin rated in the third to fourth round range, but is now hearing he could go in the second round, and perhaps sneak into the later portion of the first round because of his versatility.

Others who made some noise include a couple of small school corners – Dwight Bentley out of Louisiana-Lafayette, Furman’s Ryan Steed and Janoris Jenkins out of North Alabama.

As far as the quarterback position, Rang said none of signal callers at the Senior Bowl really stood out.

And although Oklahoma Sate quarterback Brandon Weeden received some positive reviews from several draft analysts, Rang was not impressed with his overall play, and does not see Weeden as a good fit for the Seahawks.

“I question the fit for Seattle specifically, because he’s not a light-footed passer who is at his best on the move,” Rang said. “Once you make him move his feet, his accuracy plummeted.”

According to Rang, the top quarterback at the Senior Bowl was Michigan State’s Kirk Cousins, who he believes is a good fit for Seattle because he has the mobility and intangibles the Seahawks covet.

In terms of running backs, Washington’s Chris Polk, considered the top back at the Senior Bowl heading into the week was a disappointment.

“He looked soft during the weigh-in,” Rang said. “It was disappointing. He’s a good football player. But his last two games I didn’t think he played with the same type of nastiness that he did throughout his career.

“He certainly was billed from everybody that I talked to as the No. 1 running back in the game, but he played like the third or fourth best I thought, unfortunately.”

Rang said Doug Martin of Boise State was probably the best running back in terms of overall consistency, and at 5-9, 215 pounds could be a fit for Seattle.

Another runner that showed some elusiveness and had some of the best runs of the week during practice was Mississippi State’s Vick Ballard, Rang said.

Rang believes running back is one of the strongest positions in the draft, and that Seattle could find another back to add to the mix behind Marshawn Lynch in the middle rounds.

Among the pass rushers, North Carolina’s Quinton Coples was a man among boys during the week.

“He’s the most talented player the field,” Rang said. “He’s as good as he wants to be. If he wants to be Julius Peppers, he could.

“He dominated first-round offensive lineman. He was better during practice than during the game, and I thought he was good during the game. Talk about a boom-or-bust pick – he is it this year.”

Rang said his No. 1 senior player is Alabama edge rusher Courtney Upshaw, who could play defensive end in a 4-3 and outside linebacker in a 3-4.

“He’s just a good, physical player,” Rang said. “He uses his hands really well and locates the football really well. He just is not explosive with his initial burst off the snap.”

South Carolina’s Melvin Ingram rounds out the list of the top three pass rusher at the Senior Bowl. Ingram played mostly defensive tackle at South Carolina during his senior season, but projects as more of a defensive end in the NFL.

“He’s got really light feet,” Rang said about Ingram. “He’s much quicker than Upshaw, but doesn’t have the work that Upshaw does.”

Among the linebackers at the Senior Bowl, Rang came away impressed with the work of Utah State’s Bobby Wagner.

“I thought he helped himself,” Rang said. “He tied for the game lead with seven tackles, and had a pick. I think he’s more of a middle backer in the NFL. I don’t know if he’s athletic enough to be a weak-side guy. But he gets off of blocks well. He does a good job of being patient, an he has a closing speed that is pretty unique.

“He’s a second round guy, a guy that would compete for a starting job immediately. I would love to see Seattle take them.”

Because of the dearth of quarterbacks other than Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin III rated as first round prospects, Rang sees the Seahawks taking a front seven defender in the first round right now.

“If there’s a quarterback there, obviously that is an area of concern for them,” he said. “But I don’t get the impression that they must go up and trade for RGIII. I think they feel like they’re closer than a lot of people give them credit for.

“I would be surprised if they draft another position other than a front seven defender. I just don’t think it’s likely they are going to trade up to get a quarterback. What I do see is a lot of defensive linemen are right there who are good football players, and there’s a bunch of them.”

Leave a comment Comments → 97
  1. SeahawkFan12 says:

    I would LOVE if we added Doug Martin to the roster. He’ll likely be gone by the time we address that need, but what an awesome addition he’d make to the backfield.

    Supposedly the Seahawks have the best neck and spine specialist in pro sports; if he finds Peyton Manning fit for duty, I say we go after him instead of Flynn or any other FA or draft pick. He’ll be on fire and ready to show Jim Irsay what an idiot he is for not re-signing him (Peyton) and trading the #1 pick to rebuild his decrepit team.

  2. Dukeshire says:

    Apparently as hard as Manning is rehabing, the nerve still hasn’t recovered to the point where his arm strength is anywhere near NFL ready. From what I’ve read, it still has to do with his tricepts that is being affected.

  3. Southendzone says:

    What’s Peyton had now? 2-3 neck surguries and though we don’t know for sure, most of the rumors are that he’s not ready to play and they can’t predict when his nerve will heal.

    It feels like chances are < 50/50 that he plays next year. You have to assume that switching to the Hawk's dr. will NOT be able to change that.

    If he does beat the odds and come back he can make a handful of teams into legit superbowl contenders, I'm thinking Baltimore, San Fran, NYJets or Seattle.

  4. Are the Jets ready to throw in the towel on Sanchez? I’d be surprised.

    Are the Ravens ready to throw in the towel on Flacco? Doubtful.

    The 9ers have their own version of Tavaris Jackson, so I think they may try to sign him as well.

    Eli Manning threw a hissy fit over playing on the West Coast. I wonder if Manning would refuse to play for a team out here.

    If the Jets did pull the trigger on Manning it would make for an interesting back-story with both Mannings in NY.

    If that happens, Sanchez just might end up here in a trade.

    Would anyone around here support that move?

  5. How about the same scenario with Baltimore and a Flacco trade? Any supporters?

  6. SeahawkFan12 says:

    No thanks, Audible. I actually thought Flacco might be verging on elite at one point, but the more I see of him the less I believe he is “The Answer”. Of course, he’d be a huge upgrade over Tarvaris…

  7. RynoGreene says:

    As a rook, I thought Flacco might end up being pretty good. He’s still pretty much the player he was when he started in the league. His stats are pretty much the same, if you take into account the emergence of Ray Rice (an excellent pass catcher) who gives Flacco a substantial inflation of passing stats. Flacco is a very mediocre QB. He makes a play here or there, then makes a boneheaded decision.

  8. Dukeshire says:

    I would not support a Sanchez trade, either.

    And was it the west coast Eli rejected or simply he Chargers? (this is an organization, at the time, that was desperate to replace Drew Brees. Perhaps he and his father were able to see this was a franchise run by losers.)

  9. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Why would Manning want to play for a dysfunctional team like the Jets, with a joke of a coach?
    If I was going to bet money on what team he plays for next year( other than the Colts and assuming he doesn’t retire) it would be the Baltimore Ravens. The city that had the original Colts. A team that is only a good qb away( not even elite) from winning it all.
    They would be my second favorite team if that were to happen.

    Of course I would love to be wrong and see him in a Seahawks uniform, however it seems like it’s hard sometimes to convince a hillbilly to move out west. Lol.

  10. chuck_easton says:

    If I were a betting man my money would be on ‘none of the above’ as Manning’s next team. I don’t think that Manning’s neck will heal enough for him to play at all in 2012.

  11. Dukeshire says:

    I am a betting man, and presuming he is able to play, I’d put even money on Miami. But I’ll say this, no chance he playing for the Colts or Balt next season (I’ll have to work the odds up…).

  12. Signing Flynn makes too much sense. We take care of our most important position and it allows for all/most of our early picks to be used on our other biggest need, which is help rushing the passer. A Flynn/Perry signing/1st round pick would make me tickled pink (as long as Mr. Happy is sold on Perry).

    The other scenarios aren’t as appealing:

    1. Sign Manning. Con – still have to use an early pick (1st or 2nd) on a QB, which means one less early pick to get a pass rusher.

    2. Draft a rookie QB early. Con – give up an entire season with Jackson and the following year by starting a rookie/2nd year quarterback. Still have one less early pick for pass rushing help.

    The whole idea of signing Flynn (and his potential added to being in an NFL system for 4 years) and drafting a DT, DE, or DE/OLB type of guy in the 1st round is too appealing to me to want any other scenario.

  13. GeorgiaHawk says:

    That’s why I said assuming he doesn’t retire Chuck. I do agree with you that his neck injury appears to be a problem moving forward, however I hope we will all know more come March 8. I will be turning 51 that day, a year removed from fat tuesday and a few pics my cousin took of me with body paint women. Some how I managed to get about 30 lbs of beads that night, then get up and drive back home to Georgia with a few Tornadoes close behind us. Never will forget that day!

    Now since it is Superbowl week, how do you all rank our only Superbowl so far?

  14. I’ve seen all of the Super Bowls from SB XII on and the worst one, for me, was the 49ers clobbering the Broncos. That game was ugly early and stayed ugly (or got even uglier, if you can believe that). The Broncos had no chance. That was simply a great QB helping to get his mediocre team to a Super Bowl (The Fumble vs Cleveland) and once they were there, they were severely overmatched by another great QB who also happened to have one of the great teams of all time on his side, too. As great as Elway was, he certainly wasn’t great (or even kind of good) on that day either. There were some other ugly and non-competitive games, but that one takes the cake in my world.

  15. GeorgiaHawk says:

    How about Neal o’donnell’s picks against the Cowboys? Talk about throwing a winnable game away!
    And to top that off the Jets signed this clown( in football terms ) to a huge contract the next season. What were they thinking?

  16. SeahawkFan12 says:

    I kinda think Flynn will land in Miami. Just a hunch, though…no solid reason. I also think it is entirely possible that Manning is done, as in ‘for good’. We’ll see. Sadly, all this means that we will likely end up with Tarvaris as our starter next season, and Mr. Happy seems to elude that more often than not. Of course, he might be just be playing poker with everyone, too.

  17. Southendzone says:


    Totally with you on the Flynn deal. If we can get Flynn for only $ and no draft picks as a UFA (don’t think this will happen), then we can overpay the S*** out of him and it’s still a great move.

    None of the other options sound good, I wouldn’t give up anything for either Sanchez or Flacco. We already have mediocrity, and last season TJ exceeded expectations.

    go hawks!

  18. I wish the worst for the 49’ers but if Manning was able to play this year I would give him a 1-2 year deal worth 30 mill/year. I hate to say this but they are a good QB away from going deep in the playoffs for awhile.

  19. BobbyAyala says:

    If we sign Marshawn, why would waste a pick on an RB? There’s no point.

  20. Sarcasticus says:

    That would be like saying with Trufant, Browner et al, why draft Sherman? If the best player on the board is a rb, take him.

  21. So guys if Flynn shows an interest in coming here but to get him costs us the ability to re-sign say Red, Heater and Lynch… Would you do it ?

    For me based on the fact he’s played only 2 pro games and has the potential to upset the team ethic… I would pass and looking at the history of JS and PC I think they will to

  22. I’m pretty sure a QB is more important than a non-All Pro MLB or run stuffing DE with limited pass rush ability. Not that I wouldn’t love to have Heater and Big Red both back but, seriously, this is the most important positions in professional sports we’re talking about.

  23. You cant cherry pick Bobby, Lynch was thrown in the equation too.
    I wouldnt blow this team up and lose the better players for a guy with 2 pro games to his name and have to blow the pay structure to get him.
    We already have an overpaid worry on our books with Rice

  24. RDPoulsbo says:

    In order of signing importance, I’d go Lynch, Bryant, and Hawthorne. As much as I’d like the Heater to return, Wright has already shown he’s ready to step into the MLB spot. It’s getting close to a similar situaton as Tatupu/Hawthorne a few years ago, but they held onto Tat for a little too long at a little too high of a price. Bryant plans to work this offseason on pass rushing abilities and he deserves a chance at showing us he can. He’s been moved from DT to DE, so there’s new techniques he needs to develop. That doesn’t mean not going after another pass rusher, but the skills he has now are enough to keep him around. Lynch really is the soul of the offense and will need to continue to be just that until they can get another QB folded into the team. There’s no way they can let him go.

    One thing you can guarantee about Flynn is he’ll get a big payday. Just look at Cassel, Kolb and Schaub. Mixed results, but the one constant is there has always been a team willing to pay big money for a backup that has shown promise in limited starts. He’s worth taking a run at him, but they’re going to need to drop a few high priced vets to get him. Trufant is likely to be one and Gallery should be another. Ultimately though, he’s going to have to want to come to Seattle because he has plenty of options, including signing in Miami with his former coach.

  25. raymaines says:

    Not to cherry pick, but… Lynch is a running back. That means 5m per year. Affordable. Hawthorn has damaged knees and the draft looks deep in LB’s. Expendable. Bryant is awesome and the ‘Hawks have cap room. Whitehurst is a goner so that’s 4m that can be used towards an upgrade to the QB position. Don’t ya just love spending Paul Allen’s money though.

  26. HawkyHann says:

    When I think of Matt Flynn, I start to think about: Matt Carroll, Kevin Kolb, Tarvaris Jackson, Jason Campbell, etc. Too bad Kitna retired. I’d take him over any other QB not named RGIII. Go for top tier talent. Just look at the Superbowl QBs, again.

  27. chuck_easton says:


    What do you propose Seattle gives up to move up to at least #2 to get RGIII?

    It would take our #1 this year, probably our #2, plus our #1 next year and one or more of our draft choices this year.

    Remember what Atlanta had to give up last year to move up to #11 to get J. Jones.

  28. bayareahawkfan says:

    Apropos of nothing, anyone else notice Mike Singletary looking on from the sideline in the picture that follows the headline? I wonder what he thinks privately about his time in SF after what Harbaugh and Co did with basically the same roster.

    He’s supposedly a pretty great LB coach (though I’ll happily take Ken Norton, Jr.), just wasn’t cut out to be a head coach.

  29. bayareahawkfan says:

    Oh and as much as I like to imagine the Hawks being able to move up and get RGIII, it absolutely won’t happen.

    Even if Schneider et al were willing to give up all the necessary draft and signed player capital to do it, people seem to be forgetting that the Rams own the #2 pick, and Fisher came to St.Louis partly because of Sam Bradford, do they feel set at QB. They’ll entertain all comers *except* a division rival like Seattle.

    If anything, I can see them taking less than Seattle would offer just to screw a division rival.

    Absolutely 0% chance of being able to move up and RGIII, so speculate about other QB’s if you must.

  30. RDPoulsbo says:

    I’ve said this about Manning and I’ll say it again: I think he retires, but in the unlikely chance that he goes to another team, he’s going to suck and the offense is going to suck. This isn’t Madden where you can just plug and play and expect instant returns. Manning has run scheme is unique to the NFL where he calls all the plays from the LoS for almost all of his career. Not even his backups in Indy could run it and it especially showed in how out of sync their offense was early in the season. It’s not just Manning somehow instantly getting his passing ability back after a year of surgeries and rehabs, it’s the rest of the offense needing to completely change schemes to revolve around him and get on the same page. That’s something that takes time, which is something he doesn’t have at this stage of his career.

    Just stay away. It just screams disaster waiting to happen…for every team thinking of signing him.

  31. The last I heard, we’re under the cap by 10 million right now. Say goodbye to Trufant, Gallery, and Whitehurst. They won’t sign Heater if the asking price it too much, so there’s another chunk of money.

    Carroll and Schneider should have no problem convincing Flynn to sign with us over Miami because we’re further along in building a championship team. We have a more stable organization, and we have more talent.

  32. r3cusant says:

    I am an avid Wildcat fan. I got a chance to watch Jeron play live a bunch of times. He is the real deal, legit WR. I honestly haven’t seen this good of a WR at Arizona EVER. He needs to strengthen his game a little and he could definitely be a pro-bowler in the NFL . . . I think he would be great on the Seahawks :3

  33. Seahawkfan78 says:

    My prediction is that Peyton Manning wont play again… He will retire even if the Colts cut him.

    Hopefully Portis will make some giant steps if we can’t get a good QB in FA or the Draft.

  34. piperfeltcher says:

    I do not think cap space will be a issue as they are also allowed allowed to pull $5 mill that was not spent last year onto this years cap. What will be intresting though is to see how some of the teams are going to spend there cap space to get to the min. requirements under the CBA. Unless my calculations are wrong the Bucs are going to have to spend roughly 48 million in free agency to hit the min. so some teams are going to be overspending just to hit the min. cap floor.
    Not sure why people are down on Flacco? The way I see it he drove his team down the field and threw a easy catch to Evens to put his team in the Superbowl but I guess it is somehow his fault that his receiver relaxed and had the ball knocked out?

  35. chuck_easton says:

    Cap space is only an issue when it comes to re-signing OUR guys:

    How much is Lynch going to want? (likely his last contract will ask for the world)

    Red? (wants to stay can be done)

    Hawthorne and Hill, by all means make them an offer but don’t be afraid to let them walk if they get a better offer.

    Trufant will either re-structure or be cut.

    I think the team keeps Gallery at least through training camp to see how the line progresses. That means no salary cap savings that can be used for FA’s.

  36. chuck_easton says:

    One thing on Lynch, even though it seems like he’s been in the league forever, he’s only 25 years old.

  37. Dukeshire says:

    Chuck – I think that’s a fair assessment, especially about Gallery. I would not be surprised if he doesn’t make the final ’12 roster.

  38. Dukeshire says:

    Also, regarding Lynch, he had limited carries in ’09 and ’10, comparatively. So while he’s been in he league for 5 season, he’s a young 25, for as hard as he runs.

  39. piperfeltcher says:

    I was reading how a lot of the casino’s in Vegas will be in financial trouble if the Giants win as huge amounts were bet on them at up to 80-1 odds. Hmmm sounds like a job for Leavy.

  40. langfordhawk says:

    With all this talk about QB’s, I never hear Josh Portis’s name come up.
    This is a guy we weren’t sure would clear waivers last year because of his “up-side”. It is likely we start camp with a veteran (Jackson / Flynn / ???) a rookie (1st / 2nd / 3rd round) and then there’s JP sitting there again. Has this guy developed at all to the point where he might not clear waivers and we have to keep 3 QB’s on the active roster?

  41. Dukeshire says:

    piper – Thats true, and not only that, but there was a ton of money put on them at the beginning of the playoffs, at 22-1. In addition to that, the betting public is also overwhelmingly taking the 3 points (at least at the Hilton). Course, when the Pats win, the casinos will be loving it.

  42. Dukeshire says:

    langfordhawk – interesting question, but we really won’t have any real idea until next preseason. Got to see him actually play, vs simply practice.

  43. langfordhawk says:

    You’ve got to think that Portis would have a leg up on any rookie coming in, wouldn’t you?

  44. Dukeshire says:

    Familiarity with scheme, certainly. But not necessarily from a tools or ability perspective.

  45. RDPoulsbo says:

    I remember a guy named David Greene who didn’t have a leg to stand on as a 3rd string rookie and yet he managed to make an NFL roster 3 straight years.

    I’m all for drafting a QB in the 4-7 round range to develop. Almost every year of late, there’s a Cassel, Whitehurst or Kolb that get traded for high draft picks. Seattle should be trying to cash in on their ability to develop players rather than be the victim of such transactions. Unfortunately for Portis, he’s not the kind of QB teams would be looking to trade for. Maybe he should be thinking about converting into a TE instead.

  46. Why Draft a back up RB? Have you seen how many guys go down in any given year. Hell – NYG and GB were running on the 3rd and 4th guys on the depth chart by the end of LAST season and GB won the SB with that depth.

    I just don’t think that Portis has what it takes to LEAD a team. You hear about a throw here, a throw there, but you have to have Leadership to be a good QB in this league. as much as I don’t like Tjack – the team rallied around him. don’t here that about Portis at any of his playing stops along the way

  47. Dukeshire says:

    In fairness, leadership is a very difficult thing to assess outside a game situation. He was getting scout team snaps, behind Charlie. Not to mention the practice reports we got were very spare and few, indeed.

  48. langfordhawk says:

    Is that Mike Singletary, background left of the picture above?

  49. Dukeshire says:

    It is. He’s on the Viks staff.

  50. langfordhawk says:

    Wonder if his pants are up…

  51. When I think of Matt Flynn, I think of Matt Hasselbeck, Matt Schaub, and Mark Brunell.

    You can only be a good former back-up if your first name starts with the letter “M.” Pretend that the name of Steve Young is “Meve” Young (although he doesn’t really count as a back-up since he was a former 1st round pick).

  52. RDPoulsbo says:

    How about Tom Brady?

  53. Does his name start with an “M?”

  54. Dukeshire says:

    … Aaron Rodgers?

  55. Dukeshire says:

    BTW everyone; it’s Bobby’s birthday today! How many candles are we putting on the cake?

  56. I still think Flynn will not be coming here. Schneider could have gotten him cheap two years ago, but went after free agent Charlie Whitehurst instead. My understanding was the Whitehurst was Schneiders call that Pete backed up. He could have traded for him last year also, but instead signed TJack. If he thought he was going to be a good NFL QB, he would have him by now. He was there when they drafted him. We got Hasselbeck cheap, the Browns got Seneca Wallace for cheap, unproven backups are always cheap. Now they have to pay, and I don’t think they are going to.

  57. He gets 10 candles…and if he can blow them all out, and we all know he can, just mention TJack, the Seahawks will sign Matt Flynn.

  58. Dukeshire says:

    Remember, they game Hass a huge deal (relatively) after trading for him (swapping places in the 1st and giving a third). If they’re interested in Flynn, they keep their picks and just work the contract, which they’d have to negotiate at one point or another, anyway.

  59. freedom_X says:

    I’m also in the camp that doesn’t think Seattle is very interested in Flynn. For the same reasons others express – Seattle’s had many opportunities to express interest and they never have in the past. The Seattle leadership isn’t going to change their mind off of one season or one game. If they did, I’d be worried about their thinking process.

    As for Portis, I wouldn’t write him off. This is Seattle, haven of the free agent QB who makes it big. Zorn, Krieg, Kitna. Is there such a huge difference between grooming a 5th to 7th round pick into a commodity, and doing the same with a free agent?

    Heath Evans makes scathing comments about the Holmgren era in Pro Football Weekly.

    I’m not shocked about much of what is said, since those were very underachieving teams, but I am shocked the allegations Holmgren was not even-handed with discipline. It’s true some people know how to handle other people differently, but it takes an exceptional person to be able to do that and not look unfair. Perhaps Holmgren didn’t have a good grasp on that in those years.

  60. Hass was not an overnight success here, not a sure thing by any means. With a good team around him he became what I term a B+ QB which = good enough to win the SB under the right circumstances(fair officiating being one of those). There were growing pains for sure and times where I was pissed at him early, late and in the middle of his career here(“We’ll take the ball and we’re gonna score!”) Sitting behind and learning from Farve accelerated his rise. It was a gamble on both $$$ and swapping picks that paid off.

    Flynn has had a very similar incubation period. According to Rodgers he has mentioned Seattle as a front runner destination. We CAN get this guy. In the past I would tend toward the negative where Seattle is always mentioned but never closes on whatever over-the-hill-past-his-prime pass rusher we were pursuing. This FO strikes me as different. They have made mistakes but have also pulled rabbits out of their hats AND signed guys that seemingly came out of left field that have produced.

    After Luck(no chance) I would take Flynn and then RGIII followed by P. Mannning(moderately healthy of course). Further on in the draft there are quite a few interesting prospects that I know little about. We’ve got the money and the FO has shown they are without remorse making moves(cap or personnel) to improve this squad.

    Lynch can be franchised if nothing else. (Alexander’s best years were under the tag)

    If you are going to gamble on a high priced free agent do it when they are young.

  61. Dukeshire says:

    Look, Holmgren found out the hard way that ballancing GM duties (telling players why you’re not going to pay them) against Head Coaching duties (now trying to get everything that player has out of them), never works. But despite Evans’ sniper fire, the success of the franchise under Holmgren cannot be disputed.

    And perhaps if Evans wasn’t so concerned about what everyone else was doing, he’d have been able to focus on his job, and beat out the undrafted FA who he was drafted in the third round to replace, named Mack Strong.

    It’s not Holmgren’s fault he was a disappointment in the organizations eyes. It’s his.

  62. bayareahawkfan says:

    Interesting article on NFP about Lofa not playing last season:

  63. Dukeshire says:

    And BTW: I put about as much stock into what Rodgers says about Flynn’s opportunities as I would Flynns’ agent. Rodgers has no idea. He’s simply trying to enhance a market for a fellow player, that he knows is of no threat to him. As though Rodgers has had conversations with Seattle’s front office. And we know Seattle isn’t risking tampering charges by premature contact of Flynn.

  64. Point made in the validity of hearsay. I hope that if our front office pursues Flynn when that time arrives that we hear nothing of it until it is closed. Rumors get you through the Seahawk off season but they can be damaging when paired with unrealized expectations. That is a lesson I learn time and again yet rarely apply to the present.

  65. freedom_X says:

    If there is any truth to Evans’ allegations, I’d be interested to know if Holmgren tightened up on those areas in later years (after he got back to coaching full time), which helped shape up the locker room.

    That might explain the “better character” improvements more than Tim Ruskell personnel magic, which has often been cited as key to the Super Bowl run. (Not by anyone here of course, not anymore. :) )

  66. Dukeshire says:

    Even Hutch said Holmgren lost the locker room at one point. Cleared some people out and adjusted his own behavior. It might be a tough get, this many years later, but I’ll see if I can find it o post here.

    I guess th thing that pisses me off is that this isn’t anything new. Where does his axe to grind come from, all of a sudden?

  67. Orogenic says:

    Hugh Millen said the other day, if we had a health Peyton Manning, we would be SB Contenders. I still think we need one of these young QB’s brought in.

  68. Whereas his ‘record cannot be disputed’ I’ve always thought that Holmgren’s condescending, eruptive attitude was toxic. I’m grateful for the experience of winning a NFC Championship, but feel that we drastically underachieved considering some of the elite players that we had (Walt, Hutch, Alexander). He neglected defense, could NOT develop a WR, missed on too many 1st rounders, never had any depth behind Matt and was too predictable in his play calling. It’s why I am such a fan of the current team and leadership, often defending their player acquisitions b/c I really respect the way they’re going about building our organization. Heath Evans is dead on. And it’s no coincidence why Belichick has enjoyed sooooo much more success.


  69. Dukeshire says:

    Your complaints seem to be directed to Holmgren the GM, which there is plenty of room to criticize. And he has admitted, he neglected defense as GM. But his tenure as GM was short and so the criticisms of failed talent acquisition can only extend to him in a limited capasity. (and by the way: I would argue, if pressed, he was a far better GM than you are acknowledging at this moment.)

  70. Not acquiring/developing a quality WR hurt Matt and the team overall, unimaginative play calling was often to predictable for opposing defenses, condescending, toxic attitudes (remember how he’d turn beat red while being incredibly snarly) and underachieving success considering the talent(see Sando’s recent article on notable NFC West playoff losses)ALSO point a finger at his coaching in addition to his GM duties. Your opinion is different. I get it. You like Holmgren. Again, whereas I’m grateful for the NFC championship I think we could’ve achieved more. Much more. I love Pete’s attitude. I love John Schneider. I think we have a great future and am very happy that Holmgren is no longer here and has moved on. Oh sure, put him in front of a camera and he always knew how to ‘turn it on’, but his body language and obviously lack of ? as told by Evans confirms many of my beliefs. I agree with you a lot of the time. Just not when it comes to Holmgren. Versus Pete 2.0 (hated the choke thing he did w/Jets), imo there’s no contest. Of course, time will tell.

  71. SandpointHawk says:

    And now for something completely different…we take you to CenturyLink Field.

  72. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Holmgren hasn’t done anything in Cleveland so far to change my mind about his ability to lead an organization.
    The big show was a great qb coach, a good head couch, a poor GM, and so far a poor president.
    It’s funny to me how some bandwagon fans around here will be quick to jump all over Russkell (and deservingly so) for team failures, however then have this how dare you say anything negative about the all mighty Holmgren attitude!
    They shouldn’t have named that street after him in Greenbay. Reggie White deserved it more.
    And I guarantee that Cleveland will not name a street after him.
    Why is it that some players and coaches get full of themselves after they win a Superbowl?

  73. Thanks for the link Sandpoint, that light show looked cool. I feel they definately should of used a different song though. It would of been better in my opinion, if they used more of a booming bass sound throughout instead of that electronic sound. I was waiting for the stadium to transform into a robot. They should of used a song that better represented the 12th man. Something that made you viberate and tingle. Even so, it still looked cool. On another note, did they do anything with that cheap, retarded looking logo that they had stenciled on top of the stadium?

  74. piperfeltcher says:

    Holmgren did develop a WR his name was D. Jackson and if you look at his stats for the years Holmgren ran the team they are among the best in that time period. Holmgren was the 1st to admit that he made mistakes as a GM and admitted he was wrong to draft offence and bring in older players on D and has said if he had to do it again he would build the defence through the draft and use free agency to build the offence as players on the D side tend to break down at a earlier age. I am personally greatfull for Holmgren and the great years of football he gave Seattle. I am guessing the fans who critize him must not have seen the Seahawks teams before he got to Seattle and should go back and watch the Floras years.

  75. SandpointHawk says:

    Georgia… Neither am I but the article (as I read it) is about the current top 40 quarterbacks in the NFL…I’d still like to see his list…

    TruBlu….so true about the music selection.

  76. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Piperfeltcher- I’am one of those fans that will critcise Holmgren, and I have seen the the Flora teams, although I blame the incompetence of those teams mostly on the ownership than the coach.
    Yes, he came in here with a ton of credentials, and it looked at first that things were going to get better. However it didn’t get better because he let alot of talent go that he inherited, And he tried to bit off more than he could chew with being GM. Remember that Erickson had the same overall record as Holmgren did his first five years.
    Just look at the talent that he left us with after his lame duck final season compared to the talent that Erickson left. Although Ruskell had alot to do with that, imo Holmgren had much to do with that too.

    The best thing that Holmgren did while being here was to get Hasselbeck.
    And because of the combination of given more time than most head coaches would get to turn things around, being in arguably one of the worst divisions in NFL history, and having inherited the best left tackle in the game and best blocking fullback in the game, and being terminated from his GM duties so that the defense could at least become respectable, and it didn’t hurt to have the 12th man.

    So yes it was a formula for success! And it should have been!
    Think of what Chuck Knox whould have done with that formula! Or how about Belichik?

    Mike Holmgren will go down as one of the better coaches of all time, imo. However just like most coaches that have had success, then stay in the game too long, they start becoming a little slack.
    When you start hearing them talking about taking a year off or getting an epiphany about owning a library ( which is all fine). So just quite and get on with your life! Don’t drag us through a lame duck season and leave us with virtually no talent, unlike you were blessed with when you came here.

    When I think about the talent that was left for Carroll to work with, and how much he has improved upon that in such a short time, It makes me so glad that ownership didn’t hire Holmgren for President or some other FO position.

  77. GeorgiaHawk says:

    SandpointHawk- That was nothing aimed at Dilfer for for his expertise on evaluating this seasons starting qbs. I would like to see that list also.

  78. piperfeltcher says:

    Holmgen also won 5 Div titles in Seattle and made the playoffs 6 times. All the other Seahawk coaches combined have won 2 div titles and 5 playoff berths. To compare Holmgren to Erickson is a joke. I personally believe the reason the Hawks had so little talent when he left had to do with the fact he no longer was in charge of bringing in talent as Ruskell was GM.

  79. I wouldn’t really brag about NFC West titles during that period, just sayin’.

  80. I agree with you TruBlu. The NFC West during those years was pretty weak with the exception of the Rams. At least they won a Superbowl.

    Djack? Mr. Dropsies along with Kornrow. Engram was solid, but not elite. How many Pro Bowls between all of them. I think KR made it as a special teamer one year with the Vikings, but other than that…nothing.

    Again, grateful for the taste of Championship football. I just believe we should’ve done more. Apparently Heath Evans, who was there for 4 years, said that those teams were extremely talented, just underachieving.

  81. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Comparing Holmgrens first few years to Ericksons is reality not a joke. Assuming that I am comparing them in any other way is.

    Erickson had to follow Flores and deal with poor ownership, and start off with Rick Mire. He also had much better competition in the AFC west.
    And he probably would have extended his coaching with the Seahawks if the refs wouldn’t have blown the Vinny Testaverde td call in the last game of the 98 season.
    And he left Holmgren a boat load of talent to start with.

    And to say that Holmgren had absolutely no say in choosing talent after he was terminated of his GM duties is hard to believe.
    I do believe that he pouted some when he lost his power and possibly became disinterested in working on the same page with the new GMs. It sure looked that way at times.

  82. piperfeltcher says:

    What was this boat load of talent that Erickson left? They had no QB,no RB a below average O-line outside of Jones, a great WR who did not want to be there and a aging defence.
    And as for how much personal decisions he had after he was stripped of his GM duties is up for debate but I do know he was pretty vocal about how the Hutch. situation was handled.

  83. piperfeltcher says:

    Holmgrens record 157-100 playoffs 13-11 3 Superbowl berths and 1 SB

    Ericksons record 40-56 Never made the playoffs

  84. GeorgiaHawk says:

    What was this boat load of talent that Erickson left?

    Look it up piperfeltcher. You might learn something. I think you can come up with more than Jones or Galloway if you do.

  85. piperfeltcher says:

    Don’t have to look it up. Tez, Brown and Springs were all on the decline when Holmgren took over absolutly no young talent on defence. O-line was terrible. Team was middle of the pack in offence and defence with almost all the key players being older and finishing out there careers.

  86. GeorgiaHawk says:

    piperfeltcher – Using guesses and assumptions to make your arguments can make you look like a fool.
    I don’t even know what you are trying to argue? So maybe we can start this over by me asking you why do you think that Erickson and Holmgren had the same overall record after there first four years as coach of the Seahawks?
    You obviously think that Holmgren deserves no criticism at all as a Seahawk couch? Am I not right?

  87. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Couch. That’s funny. My bad.

  88. piperfeltcher says:

    No I do not think Holmgren is without criticism I all ready pointed out how even he admitted he made mistakes. But I think he is a miles better coach then Erickson was or ever will be.
    I have always believes it takes 5 years to build a winning team. Holmgren came in and in year 1 evaluted what he had in talent and he realized he did not have what he needed to win. In year 2 he blew the team up. In year 3 he started to show improvement. Year 4 team continued to improve and in year 5 he had a contending team. Erickson never showed improvement they were middle of the pack all 4 of his years in record and stats.
    I also believe that Carroll is a good coach and has this program headed in the right direction even though he is 14-18 in his first 2 years here. If there is no improvment next year I will begin to worry as he has brought in the players who he thinks can win and if they are still a middle of the road team after year 4 I would expect a change.

  89. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Holmgrens last year as a Seahawks coach, Compared to Ericksons.

    Record- Holmgren 4-12 Ericksons 8-8

    Scoring- 25th 10th

    defense- 25th 10th

    Turnovers- -7 +8

    Talent that Ericksons regime left us

    Walter Jones- Pro bowl
    Chad brown- probowl
    Cortez Kennedy- pro bowl
    Joey Galloway
    Ricky Waters
    Pete Kendall
    Mack Strong
    Sam Adams
    Phillip Daniels
    Michael Sinclair
    Shawn Springs
    Ahman Green
    Chris Gray
    Willie Williams
    Jon Kitna

    Now what did Holmgren leave us in his last( lame duck) season?

    Jim Mora? Lol.

  90. piperfeltcher says:

    Oh do not get me wrong Holmgrens last year was a disaster but not because of coaching it was because like you pointed out under Ruskell the teams talent went way down and no coach would have won with that lot and with Hasselback hurt. By Holmgrens last year the front office was a mess and completly divided which some of the blame for does go to Holmgren but a lot of it was out of his hands.

  91. piperfeltcher says:

    Do you believe if Holmgren had remained GM that he would have let Hutch walk for nothing and overpaid for Alexander?

  92. piperfeltcher says:

    Talent in Holmgens last year

    Walter Jones-probowl
    Julian Peterson- probowl
    Lofa Tatupu
    Patrick Kerney
    Marcus Trufant
    Dion Grant
    Jason Babin
    Brandon Mebane
    Red Bryant
    John Carlson
    Dion Branch
    Matt Hasselbeck
    Nate Burleson

  93. GeorgiaHawk says:

    “Do you believe if Holmgren had remained GM that he would have let Hutch walk for nothing and overpaid for Alexander?”

    That’s a good question! No I don’t! I wanted back at that time so bad for Hutch to get the big contract, and Alexander to walk.

    I absolutely think that Holmgrens overall NFL career is much better than Ericksons. I just don’t think that Holmgrens overall time in Seattle should be entirely without criticism, and especially his last two or three years.
    And I believe that Holmgren was just one bad call( the Jets game), away from not being coach for the Seahawks at all.
    Overall Holmgren was a good coach for the Seahawks, however he is not God,( our untouchable to criticism).

    That’s all the more I want to say on this for a long while. I don’t know if I am worn out talking about this, or worn out from the what could have been memories.Lol.

  94. piperfeltcher says:

    Fair enough and I agree that Holmgren made mistakes in Seattle. And yes Erickson got screwed out of a playoff chance by a bad call but I also believe Hawks got screwed out of a Superbowl by a number of bad calls. Enjoy the offseason and it was good talking football with you.

  95. ON a new note – who wins Sunday? and/or Do you have a routing interest?

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