Seahawks Insider

Carroll says Jackson’s the starter – for now

Post by Eric Williams on Jan. 3, 2012 at 3:06 pm with 55 Comments »
January 4, 2012 10:30 am

Seattle Seahawks head coach Pete Carroll talked for about 45 minutes on a wide range of topics during his end-of-the-season press conference this afternoon.

Much of the discussion of course centered around quarterback Tarvaris Jackson and how he feels about his quarterback position moving forward.

Carroll again stood behind Jackson, commending him for playing through the pectoral injury, and stating that he will be the leader at the position heading into training camp, but that he will have to compete for the job.

“We’re going to take a look at every opportunity, just like we always have,” Carroll said. “Every single time we go down the road here, when there’s an opportunity we’re trying to get ahead of it, anticipate what’s going to happen and see what we can do and compete our tails off so that we can take full advantage of those opportunities. So we’ll just see what happens, as with all positions.”

So is there a chance that Jackson is the backup heading into training camp?

“There’s chances for everything to happen, “ he said. “If you want to write it that way you can. He’s our leading guy, and he’s the No. 1 guy in our program, and that’s all we have right now. And that’s where we are. And it’s the same at everybody else’s spot.

“But we’ll compete at all spots. So I just want to be very clear to you so that there’s no misunderstanding that that’s the theme of this program is competing, and that mean’s you’re always looking to get better.”

There’s a lot of news to sort through that I’ll mete out throughout the week, but here are some tidbits.

* Receiver Sidney Rice will have shoulder surgery for a torn labrum that he suffered during training camp sometime this week. Rice had played with the injury most of the season, but was placed on the season-ending injured reserve because of reoccurring concussions with about a month left in the season. Carroll said Rice will have a three-to-four month recovery and should be ready for the beginning of offseason workouts on April 16.

* Cornerback Richard Sherman will have arthroscopic knee surgery which is viewed more of a clean-up, and should be ready for Seattle’s offseason program.

* The Seahawks signed seven players to futures contracts, including defensive end Pierre Allen, linebacker Allen Bradford, cornerback Coye Francies, defensive end John Graves, cornerback Jesse Hoffman, tight end John Nalbone and offensive guard Brent Osborne.

* Of the players on the injured reserve list, only James Carpenter is in jeopardy of missing the beginning of training camp because of ACL knee surgery, which takes about nine months to recover from.

* Carroll confirmed that Jef Ulbrich has taken a job as a special teams coach with Jim Mora at UCLA, and that assistant offensive line coach Luke Butkus is returning to his alma mater to coach offensive line at Illinois.

* In terms of free agency, Carroll said the team’s first priority is to take care of his players who will be free agents first.

* Carroll also took responsibility for the team’s issue running the 2-minute offense at the end of games, stating that they didn’t work on it enough at practice.

* Carroll said the development and play of young quarterbacks coming out of college, including Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco and Andy Dalton has changed his opinion on young quarterbacks having success right out of college.

* In terms of the development of his team, Carroll said they need to get faster at linebacker, increase the pass rush both on the edge and in the interior, and add some playmakers on offense, including a receiver and a running back.

* Carroll said that Ricardo Lockette will get an opportunity to compete for a receiver spot, one of several guys that will get a chance to compete or a job opposite Sidney Rice.

Leave a comment Comments → 55
  1. Dukeshire says:

    Well, there is a lot of interesting information there. I’m surprised Rice hasn’t had the procedure sooner. Although I don’t suppose it matters, but since he was a already IRed, might as well get a jump on rehab.

    Very interesting comments about linebacker. My gut feeling is that they will not bring back Heater, for good or ill. I have nothing solid to base that on, and Carroll may in fact be talking about letting Hill walk and penciling in Smith at Weak Side. Wright seems to be the only safe one of the three, from where I sit. That will be very interesting situation to watch.

    And I also interpret that interior pass rush comment to mean they will be looking to upgrade Branch. And they have to. He provides too much redundancy along that line. (i.e. stout against the run, although not toward the end of the season, but next to nothing regarding pressure.)

  2. I wonder if the Rice/concussion issues were too bad for them operate? I can’t imagine it was? Concussions never used to seem like a big thing, but these days you see “simple” concussions and guys like Justin Morneau and Sidney Crosby are missing all kinds of time. Common sense says that if you’re on IR that you get the surgery taken care of as early as you can (if you know you’re going to have it).

    I don’t see Hill back next year if they are looking to improve speed. I don’t see Smith as a full time WILL either. Looks like there’s going to be some type of addition (especially if Heater isn’t resigned). I guess there won’t be any Lofa reunion, as some have suggested (if increasing speed is a focus).

    I would like to see Wright come from the edge more next year. I thought he really showed promising potential this past year. Of course, I thought that of Curry too and look how that worked out.

    Rice, Baldwin, and Tate *should* be a great trio moving forward. If he’s got WR as a priority, they must be worried about Rice and his healthy AND Tate being a knucklehead who can’t figure out what a route is. Who would have thought Baldwin would have been the safest bet moving forward. I still love Sidney Rice as a top-5 WR in the NFL provided he’s healthy and has a legit QB throwing to him.

    So is there a chance that Jackson is the backup heading into training camp? “There’s chances for everything to happen, “ he said. Translation in my word – “We’re gonna sign Matt Flynn!” lol

    I’m glad the Browns team doctors aren’t operating on Sherman or he’d end up with a career ending staph infection.

    Personally, I’d like to enter free agency with Heater, Big Red, Robinson, Breno, McQuistan, and Lynch resigned (or Lynch franchised) but I’m not too overly concerned about it. A guy like McQuistan doesn’t seem like the kind of player who would command much interest even though he’s valuable to us in this scheme. I don’t see any of those guys breaking the bank (minus Lynch – and if he were replaced for millions less by J-Stew, that wouldn’t break my heart either; but Stewart would be the only back I’d be okay swapping Lynch and millions for; still I don’t want to do it b/c Lynch gives us that toughness image that’s fun to have, even if Stewart is physical, too).

  3. Dukeshire says:

    Projecting a bit, what we saw out of Wright from the Sam is what I think they’d like him to develop into. A pseudo Clay Matthews out of a 4-3. Although, bringing him won’t be as necessary if they get more out of the strong side DE. Still… Wright has the ability to drop into coverage too, so his versatility is appealing, for sure.

    Neither Hill nor Heater are track stars, so it’s hard to know for sure what Carroll has in mind there. Time will tell.

  4. freedom_X says:

    Also the regression and injury to Mike Williams is a big part of any perceived need for more at WR. If he had produced like last year, much of the concern would be eased.

    Part of the free agency equation is who else will pay the $$$ for a given player? In the modern NFL, I’m not sure what other team would break the bank for Marshawn Lynch (i.e. DeAngelo Williams+ money.) I don’t think RB’s have the market value they used to, especially because the league is so pass-oriented now (another factor Carroll stressed.)

    So Seattle has to be careful not to bid against itself. Moreover, a franchise tag might actually make Lynch angry. I hope that a Leroy Hill (Ruskell) era situation plays out – tag is removed, guy finds out what he’s really worth, signs a fair deal shortly afterwards (more than fair actually, as events proved.)

  5. chuck_easton says:

    Carroll’s ‘endorsement’ of Jackson sounds like a verse from a song in the original muppet movie:

    “can’t live with em, can’t live without em…I hope that something better comes along”

  6. dacmike says:

    I think Carrol has to say TJ is the starter right now, Whitehurst is gone after this year. Watched the OK State and Stanford game. Blackmon is the real deal – man against boys out there and Weeden looks like he is NFL ready.

  7. Weedin is an interesting story – he did look good – but he’s 28 – so where does he go in the draft?

    Blackmon looked great, but seemed like a T.O. (the bad version) in the making . . .

  8. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I think a 4-5 round pick for Weedin would be about right. 72% completion rate this year. He kind of reminds me of Hasselbeck but with a stronger arm. He looked just as good as Luck last night, imo, and that is without great pass protection like Luck gets.

  9. Soggybuc says:

    Weedin is an interesting prospect, long in tooth as everyone knows but is the guy capable of starting for 10 -12 years and playing well?

    I wouldn’t read Petes comments about LB as a sign that Heater and Hill are gonners. i think he wants to build the depth with guys that can play great ST and be utilized in the pass D as speedy blitzers and strong cover guys. the H’s are very good players on first and second downs as well as third and 5 or less. also we had some decent guys behind them but the depth of that squad could be a heck of a lot better.

  10. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Carroll says Jackson’s the starter for now. I’m ok with that so long as we can somehow get the former -tylerite, and perhaps a 4-5 round qb in the draft,( Weedin or Moore ), to compete with Jackson this year.

    It will be fun to see how this all plays out.

  11. Dukeshire says:

    Soggy – No doubt that it’s so difficult to accurately read into what a coach means. But, it seems to me that if he really wants to get faster at LB, he’s referring to the base, not sub packages. Nickel (and dime) is already designed to increase speed (at least in part). But as you said, the H’s played very well this year (I thought Hill was especially impressive). I just can’t help but think he’s referring to the Mike position, if for no other reason than Heater played in every set that he was healthy enough for. And that would be the most obvious position, considering the amount of snaps MLB sees, to up the speed, since he doesn’t rotate it out. (And I’m not knocking Heater. He’s one of my favorite players, so I hope my feeling is wrong.)

  12. The two NFL starts that Flynn has made have been impressive but how about the start he made three “real” games ago? He won offensive MVP honors in the National Championship Game when they beat Ohio State. That’s not too shabby either.

  13. If he says that a player is priority #1 in the off-season, that really means you’re gone. If he says he wants to get faster at your unit (and that may or may not include you) it probably means that they are definitely looking to bring him (Heater) back but don’t want to tip their hand how important it is to, in fact, bring him back.

  14. dacmike says:

    I don’t think 2 NFL games is enough to evaluate Flynn. Is he that good or is it the system? Put Flynn starting on the Hawks this year, would he be that good? He will get a payday that is for sure but I think people fall in love with players with only a small evaluation. See Kevin Kolb, AZ gave up a 1st and one if not there best defensive player. Skelton is playing better then Kolb.

  15. Their WCO system is pretty similar to ours. Would Jordy Nelson put up numbers like he has this year with T-Jack throwing the ball? The Saints have a great system, but would T-Jack throw for over 5,000 yards with them? I’m pretty sure the answers are no and no.

    I agree that 2 NFL games isn’t enough to truly know if you’re getting an above average starter or not. However, does that mean we don’t use any draft picks on any players because they haven’t played any NFL games either (especially the 1st rounder b/c he’s going to make get almost a $7 million signing bonus if it’s like last years 11th pick). Like I mentioned a few minutes ago, the game before those two NFL starts was an MVP performance and 4 TD passes in a National Championship Game. I love championship performances in championship type games. That’s what I want. Not a game manager with a proven track record of not being clutch.

    AZ traded a 2nd to Philly, not a 1st (in addition to Cromartie).

  16. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Flynn has two more games in the NFL than any college prospect, plus a National Championship.
    Trying to get a player like him is taking less of a risk than keeping what we got. Imo.

    I didn’t think this way about him a week ago, however the more I see, hear, and dig up about him the more he makes sense for this team.

    The worst thing this team can do is stay with what they have and not find a good qb this year to compete with Jackson.

  17. HawkfaninMT says:

    I am loving the people coming around to the idea that we need some wr help. Rice is a good number 1, Baldwin is great slot man… we could use an upgrade at the number 2 spot and Blackmon or Jeffery would be outstanding there.

  18. If Green Bay doesn’t franchise Flynn, then I’m okay with offering him a 3-year $24-million contract or something similar with the first two years guaranteed. But if the Pack franchises him, I wouldn’t give up more than a second-round pick for him. Certainly not the No. 11 pick in the draft. I’d prefer to draft Weedin in the third round or so. Who cares if he’s 28? Wasn’t Charlie 28 when they traded for him?

  19. Soggybuc says:

    @Canfan, 3 for 24 with 16 guaranteed would not be a bad price at all i’d love to see him blue for that, sadly some idiot is goind to give him 5 years for 72 with 50 guaranteed.
    and yea Bobby is right, Pete is a master of obfuscation.

  20. Bobbyk – I agree with alot of what you say on here but. “Rice, Baldwin, and Tate *should* be a great trio moving forward . . .”

    What? Really? Tate has done less than Obo and Butler (IMO) with more talent than either. Yeah I like him but based on actual production . . . . Well I don’t get it.

    I would love to upgrade the group and they have “potential” and they do get the job done, but quite honestly I would not be surprised to see anyone other than Rice and Baldwin cut/traded/let go.
    {on the flip side I can see all of them staying next year too}

  21. Dukeshire says:

    I have to agree with that: Rice, Baldwin, then open spot. I just don’t see Tate being an intrigal player unless he makes a huge leap forward going into ’12. And honestly, based on what I’ve seen, I doubt he’s capable of it. I see him as a 4th receiver unless pressed into starting due to injury, like this season.

  22. “3 years $24 Million” for Matt Flynn? Canfan, I think your numbers may be a bit low for 2012. Flynn is this year’s Kevin Kolb, a somewhat-proven backup from a great offensive system with great coaching. After last week’s game, Flynn’s agent should be looking for a contract very similar to Kolb’s, which was 5 years $63 Million. He might have to accept a lot less, but if he’s smart he’ll hold out for the best offer.

    The way the Cardinals set up their deal with Kolb, they can cut him after 2012 and sav $41 Million, so it not necessarily a death sentence if he fails as the starter.

    Watching Flynn tonight on NFL Replay. Last weekend he looked as sharp or better than I ever saw Kolb look. Good footwork and really nice touch on his long balls. He might be worth a contract $9 to $10 Million a year as long as the team had an escape clause to avoid the later years of a long contract if necessary.

    And signing Flynn would let us target a pass rusher in the first round and avoid the temptation to trade up and lose picks.

    Don’t you wish we could just fast-forward to free agency and the draft? lol!

  23. I too don’t see Golden Tate returning comfortably to his previous position as the WR given lots of chances because Coach liked his potential. I think Tate already used up those extra chances, and he failed to compete. Seems to me that the kind of route discipline that Baldwin and Obo have is what Tate lacks. I can’t see Carroll giving him many more chances.

    I think Lockette may now inherit that position as the WR who dazzles the coaches with a special talent, and deserves a few extra chances to compete. I would love to see the kid develop into our next starting SE.

  24. Tuesday, March 13 cannot get here quick enough!

  25. ejkimber says:

    Tate and Obo stats were very close in comparison. I think Obo has had more opportunity on the field this year with same production. I think Tate has a better shot at making this team next year

  26. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Rice could last for a season if he had a qb that can hit the receiver more often than not in stride. Having to battle for jump balls and having to over extend himself most of the time makes for great highlight catches,( and boy he can do that as good as anyone out there), however it also increases the chance for injury.

    I liked the way Weedin put the ball in stride to his receivers.

  27. Soggybuc says:

    I dont see teams willing to pass out FA contracts to QB’s anymore with the new rookie wage scale in place. even if you reach for a guy at 5 -9 you still are not breaking the bank in years like in years past.

    Take a good look at the FA Qb’s for the last 5 or 6 years, how many really worked out? Brees, duh, Schaub has been good and maybe Cutler if he could play a full season.
    Of all the teams in the platoffs only NO’s has done it on the back of a FA. Houston doesnt count because if it takes bus full FA it’s still fail.

  28. Dukeshire says:

    I have to question the wisdom in signing a player that is viewed as a so-called franchise QB to only a 3 year deal. Feels like we’ve been down that road each of the past two seasons. (albeit, neither CW or Jackson were viewed as a franchise type. Which makes signing Flynn to only 3 years even more puzzling.) if you see Flynn that way, lock him up and go all in. If you question whether he’s that guy, why waste time with him at all? Whoever does sign him is going to have to pony up more years and more dollars, IMO.

  29. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I agree Dukeshire. Imo, Flynn will get a Kolb type contract, or even more, and I don’t think that is too much to dish out for a player that looks clearly to be an upgrade over what we have here.
    Will he ever be in the top four or five? Time will tell, however if he just gets in the top 10-12 range than it will be worth it.
    If he turns out to be a bust than at least we know that we have gone through something like that before,( with Curry ), and we still continue to get better.

  30. HawkyHann says:

    Sidney Rice needs to have surgery on every part of his body. Pencil him in for 8 games per season, if we’re lucky. I knew months ago he’d have to have surgery.

    He has only played 1 full season in his career. And we give him 18.5M guaranteed. Wow!

  31. HawkfaninMT says:

    Just another reason to take Jefferey, Floyd, or Balckmon in the 1st this year

  32. GeorgiaHawk says:

    “He has only played 1 full season in his career. And we give him 18.5M guaranteed. Wow!”

    HawkyHann- I agree. So if the FO is going to take a huge risk on an injury prone WR why not take a risk on a qb that can have much greater impact on the teams success?

    I think Rice will have less chance of injury with a QB that can get the ball in tight spots more often. And that goes for the other receivers on the team too. IMO.

  33. gonefishin69690 says:

    “But we’ll compete at all spots. So I just want to be very clear to you so that there’s no misunderstand that that’s the them of this program is competing, and that mean’s you’re always looking to get better.”……So far, Pete has remained true to this. And btw, not my misspelled words here, I cut and pasted.

  34. Sarcasticus says:

    I apologize ahead of time for the length of the post. I just need to get these thoughts down, and no one around here talks ‘Hawks.

    The general consensus seems to be that the Seahawks need to upgrade the pass rush, find a franchise quarterback, find a playmaker on offense, and generally continue adding and developing depth behind the starters (not necessarily in that order).

    Pass Rush

    This would come from adding to the defensive line, the linebackers, or an increase reliance on the secondary to play man-to-man to allow for more blitzing. As far as free agents, I see Robert Mathis (just added to the Pro Bowl) or Mario Williams (injured early in the season with a torn pectoral muscle) as possibilities. I would imagine either or both will get the franchise tag. Mathis would be a bit redundant to Chris Clemons as they are about the same size and age. Williams has the size and speed to be a factor in both the pass game and the run game. However, I think the Texans will try to franchise him. They will try to get him at linebacker prices and his agent will force them to use defensive end rates. The two sides will probably come to some sort of agreement before then. If not, I think he would be a worthy investment.

    In the first round of the upcoming NFL draft, a few players could potentially be available to Seattle. Nick Perry of USC led the Pac 12 in sacks. He is coming out as a junior and is believed to only be getting better. At 6-3, 250 he would play the same position as Chris Clemons. Quinton Coples of North Carolina has played both end and tackle in his three years, and at 6-6 285 he is quite capable at both spots. It seems most analysts are on him as the early favorite for the Seahawks. His size, ability to get to the quarterback, and versatility screams Seahawks D. Melvin Ingram of South Carolina has been moving up the mocks due to a strong finish in the Citrus Bowl against Nebraska. At 6-2, 276 he lacks the prototypical DE height and seems to disappear for stretches during the season and then reappear in a flash (5.5 sacks vs. Auburn and Vanderbilt on back to back weekends).

    Here’s the rub. Everyone wants to improve the pass rush. So, who gets replaced? Chris Clemons is producing at one end. So either find someone to rotate with him or play LDE (if Red Bryant is not re-signed). If Red is brought back, you are looking at a situational LDE (Brock’s current spot). Is that worth a 1st round pick or free agent money? Perhaps Red could be brought back and moved back inside with Mebane. In that scenario, the signing of Super Mario or the drafting of Coples (observers have mentioned he might make an ideal LDE in the NFL) might make sense. Moving Red back inside might also improve the run defense, which became increasingly porous as the year went on and teams had trouble throwing on this secondary.

    Caroll seems set on using Red at LDE and big money on a situational player doesn’t seem to make sense. So, that means he might just continue throwing out the net in all directions trying to find that one undiscovered situational pass rusher (Think of all the pass rushing linebackers and specialists that have been brought in the past couple of years that we all get excited about during the pre-season).

    This has gotten pretty long and I don’t even have all my thoughts down yet. Perhaps I will attempt to tackle other aspects of the offseason in a later post.


  35. Dukeshire says:

    The Red situation is a tough one, considering his leadership (emotional) and how strong he is against the run. But, since Clem is already a 3 down player (mostly) and Red is already somewhat of a situation a guy (if even apart of their base unit), I think they try and re-sign him on the cheap and invest in a more complete strong-side end. If Red balks at that, they have Branch who can fill at the 5 tech if necessary while that investment is made. What I’m getting at, is that Red is somewhat “disposable” (as tough as that may be to admit) for where this D-line needs to upgrade first (pass rush), considering the players under contract (even though all things being equal, I’d prefer to see them upgrade 3-tech first, but things aren’t all equal, I suppose).

  36. HawkfaninMT says:

    @Sarcasticus: I see your thoughts, but why limit it to Free Agent or 1st rounder? I see a few guys that are late first early second rounders that could be brought in to rotate with Clemmons to keep both fresh, and sub in for Red on passing downs.

    Whitney Marcilus of Illinois
    Andre branch of Clemson
    Vinny Curry of Marshall

    Any of these guys would be a good value in the 2nd and all can rush the passer well at the college level at the very least. I’d say any of these guys in the 2nd would be a steal for the Hawks.

  37. If Schneider had targeted Matt Flynn knowing that he was going to be a free agent after this year, and try and get him for cheap, like Whitehurst a couple of years ago, then Flynn’s performance on Sunday blew that up. There are at least 5 teams in need of a QB. Washington, Miami, Cleveland, Indy & Seattle. 2 will take Luck & RGIII. The other three, including free spending Washington, and Holmgren’s Browns, will drive up the price for Flynn. I think the reluctance of JS to try and get him prior to this year, was that we would have to give up draft picks to get him, since he was under contract, much like AZ had to for Kolb. JS likes his picks and felt the needs that he addressed on offensive line was more important. So the Matt Flynn scenario just got tougher.

  38. Sarcasticus, I see Carroll looking to create upgrades, or at least competition, at three positions, with a major acquisition at one of them:

    First off, I think Clemons has proven himself as a 3-down player at Leo.

    3rd-down LDE (Brock). This is Red’s position on 1st and 2nd down, but no, its not outrageous to pay a lot of a premier situational pass rushing DE. Its one of the most highly-coveted specialties in football and worth overpaying for since an elite player at this position is a game cahnger.

    WLB (Hill/Smith). These guys haven’t done the job on third down and a premier player playing off Clemon’s shoulder on 3rd down could be a game changer.

    3-tech DT (Branch). I feel like Branch is a bit out of position here. He has similar technique to Red, who also had trouble playing in the middle of the line due to his height. A better 3-tech won’t upgrade the pass rush as much, but can disrupt an offense on any down.

    I don’t know that it has to be a first round pick, but I think the Seahawks need to invest major $ to upgrade at least one of these in 2012.

  39. WTraveler says:

    Well, at least PC has gone from giving the job to T-Jack before he entered Seahawk Hqs, to “he’ll have to compete for the job…”
    Now lets trade up in the draft and go after Luck or Griffen…

  40. HawkyHann says:

    GeorgiaHawk- So if the FO is going to take a huge risk on an injury prone WR why not take a risk on a qb that can have much greater impact on the teams success? I agree. However, I’m really high on RG3(as stated before) and would prefer him over any FA QB. If they get aggressive to move up, I’ll be jumping up and down on draft day.

  41. Saying one free agent QB won’t work because others havn’t is a bad argument. It’s like saying poop should taste good, just because it’s the same color as chocolate.

    I like Flynn. I think he’d easily be an upgrade over what we have right now. A significant upgrade at that position and we probably would have won a few more games…possible got a playoff spot. If our management likes him, and prefers that to trading picks to draft high, then I’m all for it.

  42. HawkyHann says:

    Flynn has played in two games. I believe Green Bay’s offense is so incredibly potent right now, a number of back-up QBs would put up huge numbers. He had a career day but I want a special player. RG3 is that guy. Flynn does not excite me.

  43. piperfeltcher says:

    I do not see a problem with using a 1st round pick on a pass rushing end to spell Clemons and come in on 3rd down for Red. Clemons is getting on and only has a few years left in him and pass rush is a glaring need. I also think Williams will start opposite of Rice with Baldwin in the slot. looked to me like a lot of Williams problems this year were the result of Tjack’s inability to throw to a spot. Williams is never going to run himself open and needs a QB who can throw to a spot and allow him to use his frame to shield the defender.

  44. Dukeshire says:

    Stevo – In fairness, even with Seattle moving to a predominantly over front this year, the Will ‘backer is still a behind the line / sideline to sideline player, here. (I presume you’re referring to rushing the passer.) Regardless, I thought Hill played very well this season (Smith’s injuries leave me without a solid opinion). So if he looks to add more speed to Will, which he may have referenced yesterday, I don’t think it will be with the intent of rushing the passer, but chasing down ball carriers.

  45. hawkfan777 says:


    The Green Bays offense is very similar to the Seahawks. They are both versions of the West Coast offense with supprisingly quite a few similarities. The difference is both Rogers and Flynn do well throwing timing routes. Jackson really struggles with timing routes which are key in making a West Coast offense work. If you look at the games where Jackson did well it was typically when the Hawks played against zone. They struggled in man to man coverage because the Hawks receivers had a hard time beating coverage because they lacked speed. Jackson could not “throw them open”. Also, Green Bay was missing O-line starters and Flynn was throwing to back up receivers in the game against the Lions. I think Flynn would make more of an immediate impact. However, RG3 may potentially be good as well. It will just take more time to develop him.

  46. HawkfaninMT says:

    @Hawkfan77: I agree with your assessment of Flynn’s WR options. I think Seattle’s WR are better than GB’s WR minus Jennings. If you add jennings and Rice to the mix I would give the nod to GB, but not so much so that it would make the QBs incomprable.

  47. Dukeshire says:

    Man, I didn’t see many similarities between GB and Seattle’s offensive concepts. While both may be rooted in WCO principles, GB really incorporates way more spread principles: lots of 4 wide, TE in slot, motioning RBs out, etc… Seattle is far more “traditional” to the WC origins (as far back as to SF anyway.)

    I do agree that Jackson’s best play came against zones, for sure. But against GB, defenses got killed in zone. It seemed like the few times they were slowed down was against Cover 2 with man coverage. (KC being an exception. Although the Chiefs dominated TOP and that had as much to do with it as anything.)

  48. piperfeltcher says:

    A huge difference between Seattle’s offence and G.B’s is the Packer’s O-line has remained relativly healthy this year and the QB has been able to stand in the pocket and look downfield. The Lions have one of the best pass rushes in the league and Flynn had more time then TJack has had any game this year and that makes a huge difference. Don’t get me wrong I think TJack is average at best but any QB will look good if given time to stand in the pocket and make multiple reads.

  49. Dukeshire says:

    A counter point to that, is Jackson takes far longer to deliver the ball than does Rodgers (in addition to Rodgers being a far better scrambler, who still got sacked 36 times).

    Also, Bulaga missed 4 games, Clifton missed 10, Sitton missed a couple games, they juggled their line quite a bit. But they have played together for 2-3 seasons now, so there is more familiarity there than what Seattle currently has. But it’s not as though the Packers were providing clean pockets snap after snap.

  50. HawkyHann says:

    hawkfan777- they might have similarities but they are very different. As DukeShire pointed out, Green Bay spreads you out with 4 WR sets and pushes the ball down the field. I don’t see many similarities.

    Flynn will be the big FA QB buzz but RG3 has another gear that QBs don’t normally have. San Francisco, good luck trying to blitz that guy. It will be like a Madden video game. Most importantly, he is accurate, and has a big arm.

  51. hawkfan777 says:

    It is true that Green Bay has been calling plays differently but that isnt because the offenses are extremely different. Green Bay has a great QB and they can use the whole play book.

    Guys, Bevell used to be an offensive assistant and QB coach for the Packers (he coached favre). His offense is extremely close to the one he worked in at Green Bay. When Favre went to the Vikings he had a small learning curve. He didnt even go through training camp if you remember. In an inteview he said he wasnt concerned because of his familiarity with the offense. Yes, Bevell has recently tweeked it some but it is because he is limited in his play calls because of the QB he currently works with.

  52. Duke, yeah I suspect you’re right about the Will not being used as much as a pass rusher, regardless of personnel. I was disappointed in Leroy Hill this year in terms of his pass rush, but you’re right, its likely more due to scheme/how they use their Will than an inability on Leroy’s part. As for Smith, he’s so small that its hard to seem him becoming an impact player but I’m sure he’ll get another chance next year.

    As I’ve suggested before, I’d choose the biggest upgrade to Brock’s third-down role at LDE, IF they can find the right guy. Next, I’d look for a more mobile 3-tech DT. Adding one more LB would be a lesser priority, but I’d like to see another guy with speed.

  53. Flynn certainly had a million advantages derived from playing in that finely-tuned Packers offense. Any QB would look better in that offense than in what TJack had to work with, including O linemen and WRs. That said, to my eye Flynn appears to have solid fundamentals and skills, though his lack of height concerns me a little, and his inexperience definitely makes him a risk.

    But, hey, we’ve only seen RGIII in a potent Baylor offense – with great WRs, RB, and a line that can really move, so no one knows whether RGIII will look like such a stud when he joins the losing NFL offense that drafts him. There is risk in taking him too.

  54. Suspension question:

    Moffit technically served his suspension already – Correct?

    Hopefully he has and his MCL is recovered enough that he can be ready for at least training camp!

  55. I also find it interesting that many feel that “anybody” can do what Flynn did. Let’s see. 480 yards 6 TD’s you just don’t do that – if Anybody could then Rodgers would do it every game. Those are crazy numbers. I clearly don’t think he is the next coming but still you have to have some talent to . . .

    1. Read the defense
    2. Pass the ball to the right place
    3. Avoid the defense
    4. Read the adjustments that the defense is doing and adjust yourself
    (Yes-I know the coaching staff would help that to some degree)

    I make to claim to know who will be the best fit for this team but you truly can’t ignore what he did even if it was only one game.

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