Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Carroll and losing

Post by Eric Williams on Nov. 1, 2011 at 5:56 am with 28 Comments »
November 1, 2011 6:01 am
Seattle Seahawks head coach Pete Carroll, center, argues with officials Gary Cavaletto, left, and Greg Wilson, right, during the end of the first half of an NFL football game against the Cincinnati Bengals, Sunday, Oct. 30, 2011, in Seattle. (AP Photo/Elaine Thompson)

The focus of my story today is Seahawks head coach Pete Carroll finds himself in an unfamiliar position nearing the midpoint of this season. It’s the first time his team has been 2-5 since his first year at USC in 2001.

“I told the guys in the locker room that I’m not used to this,” Seattle coach Pete Carroll said after his team’s latest loss on Sunday, a 34-12 humbling by Cincinnati. “I’m not used to fighting out of situations like this. I don’t remember the old days, I don’t remember them anymore. I can only think of what we can become.”

That team rallied, winning four of their last five games to finish 6-6 on the year. And Carroll believes this year’s team can do the same.

“We do have to push aside what’s gone on behind us,” he said. “We can’t do anything about that. That’s a discipline that we talk about and we deal with this topic a lot.

Seattle rookie cornerback Richard Sherman was not impressed with fellow rookie, Cincinnati receiver A.J. Green during an interview with KJR and Associated Press reporter Curtis Crabtree, which thanks to Curtis you can listen to here.

In his first career start, Sherman finished with an interception against Green, and also broke up a pass to Green later in the game that resulted in an interception for teammate Kam Chancellor.

Sherman matched up with Green a lot, and the two rookies were jawing at each other most of the game.

“I would say he’s probably one of the most overrated receivers out there,” Sherman said of Green. “He wasn’t anything special. (Andy) Dalton was a good quarterback. He makes good decisions, but A.J. Green is just a lot of noise talking and bad routes.”

If you’re not following Curtis already on twitter you should, @Curtis_Crabtree.

Clare Farnsworth of writes that somewhat lost in Seattle’s loss was the play of the defense.

ESPN’s Mike Sando offers some silver linings for the Seahawks in their loss to the Bengals.

Pete Prisco of CBS Sports gives Seattle a D grade for their performance on Sunday.

Ramona Shelburne of ESPN Los Angeles writes that San Francisco head coach Jim Harbaugh was rewarded for making a couple gutsy calls against the Browns, while Carroll suffered the consequences. She’s says the two guys coach with similar swagger.

Scott Johnson of the Everett Herald continues his Game of My Life series with a profile on former Seahawks John L. Williams.

Wes Bunting of the National Football Post breaks down Andrew Luck and Matt Barkley from last weekend’s USC-Stanford game.

Morning links
Leave a comment Comments → 28
  1. FleaFlicker says:

    We’ve got to stick with Pete. As many folks have pointed out, you can’t turn around a franchise without enduring some pain for a couple seasons. Anybody that needs a reminder of what things used to be like around here: just click “Jim Mora Press Conferences” over on the right side to get a taste of 2009 and the Ruskell era.

    We’ve got to keep trying to win. Look at the the 2009 Packers, the current Bills or the Bengals. They took their lumps but stayed committed to playing all-out regardless of draft position. It’s near impossible in this league to throw in the towel and then just start winning the next season. The Bills last year were a never quit team with a terrible record. Now they’re a never quit team with a chance to win one of the tougher divisions. Seahawks need to emulate that mindset.

    And we’ve got to build a team that can run. The QB is undoubtedly the most important single player for the offense, but with our total inability to establish a rushing threat we can’t expect any QB to come out and win with a one dimensional offense. Carp to guard and pick up a superstar RT.

    And last, let’s keep some Dukeshire perspective on this. The last four seasons have been kind of miserable. Yet this is what being a fan is all about: sticking with your boys through thick and thin. For the first time in a while, I think the future has a lot of upside. We’ve got a punishing defense. We’re a few rosters spots away from having a decent offense. Maybe even a great offense depending on how the OL matures. Put those two together and you’ve got a real shot to bring the first world championship to this town in my lifetime (I don’t count the ’79 Sonics…this has never been a basketball town). Let’s go, team. Get a SB ring and I swear I’ll never refer to you as the “AssHawks” after a game again.

  2. Dukeshire says:

    Wow. My name and perspective have rarely been seen in the same sentence. lol

    I was really impressed with Sherman and am very excited to see him against the Cowboys group of talented receivers. This will be a great measure for him.

  3. Cornutt says:

    Ha! Glad to see Sherman show some moxy. Effing diva recievers anyways.

  4. “We can’t do anything about that. That’s a discipline that we talk about and we deal with this topic a lot.

    to hear Carrol talk about Discipline is a joke!

  5. I know it’s early to talk draft, but I had my eye set on a corner back, if the right QB wasn’t available with our first pick, but with Sherman’s performance against a very, very talented receiver, I changed my mind a little, he really did well and if all the guys can stay healthy, it’s a young, dynamic group.

  6. surelyyoujest says:

    Knowing a long season is coming, and living through it, are clearly two different things. Changing leaders this far into a rebuilding exercise would be ill advised to say the least. People need to keep some perspective (there’s that word again), and remember thier expectations going into the season. Ride it out. I think it will pay dividends down the road.

  7. HawkyHann says:

    So if we go 4-12(that’s a big IF), is PC safe? I’d be surprised if we win another game. Remember, he is one of the top 5 highest paid coaches in the NFL. Harbaugh is making him look like a complete joke.

    Pete Carroll’s 2 year performance with Seattle:

    year 1: 7-9
    year 2: 4-12 or worse
    year 3: fired

    After 5,000 personnel moves, and a horrible product, Pete needs to restructure his contract and admit he has done a very bad job.

  8. HawkyHann says:

    Also, I wish our journalists in Washington state would stop with the conservative,passive aggresive bs. Start telling it like it is. Great story on the Chargers last night.

  9. Ewalters7354 says:

    Pete is in no way looking like a joke.The 49ers have only played 2 good teams.I give them props for their record.But I believe they are overachievers.The Hawks have a very talented and YOUNG team.In time they will reward.This is called growing pains.

    Also,I love Richard Sherman.The guy has great ball skills and can run.I also like the nastiness he plays with.Loved seeing him talk trash to AJ green.This Hawk defense is for real and I’m proud of what I see with this group.

  10. Dukeshire says:

    HawkyHann – With due respect, I couldn’t disagree more. There is zero % chance Carroll loses his job at the end of this season. I think many underestimate just exactly how difficult it is to rebuild a franchise. It’s a multi-year process under the best of circumstances. That is, if everything breaks just right (draft picks contribute, few injuries, key free agents, etc…) Carroll is in year 2 of one of the most comprehensive rebuilds the NFL has seen in many years. He’s not in any jeopardy at this point, nor should he be. Despite my criticisms, I’ve been very impressed and pleased generally with his approach.

  11. GriffinNW says:

    I can’t believe how much talk there is of Pete being fired. You can’t completely rebuild a team and dominate week after week at the same time, it just doesn’t work like that. Our team is really young, at many positions. It is going to take time for these guys to adjust to not only the speed and talent of the NFL, but also adjust to playing with their teammates, as well as new playbooks and whatnot.
    I hate losing just as much as everyone else, but when I watch these games and just look at the team JSPC is forming, the excitement for the future calms down my frustration of losing this year.
    It’s coming everyone! Chill the fuck out and give Pete time to get his team together and playing on the same page.


  12. mojjonation says:

    I’ve been saying all along I still don’t respect the Niner’s because they haven’t played anyone. The best team they have beat are the Bucs. And even then they aren’t that good. They lost to the Cowboys who are on an unstoppable death spiral (which hopefully will continue this weekend). They should have lost to the Eagles, and the rest of the wins are against teams rebuilding. You want to beat the Niners, load up to stop Gore and make Smith throw it all day. No way he can do it.

    Holmgren wasn’t successful until his thrid year. He had to survive Kitna getting hurt all the time, then teaching a young MH how to play the game. Although I am not a fan of all the RARA BS that PC puts forth, at least he brings some energy to this team. Not that they need it with as young as they are. A coach you can relate to is a huge advantage, even if it means taking your lumps for a season or two. The team has bought into what PC is selling, as have I. Aside from all the cheerleading he does, I believe PC has the Hawks going in the right direction. Gone are the days where inflated salary, underachieving veterans litter the roster. Gone are the days of umpteen chances to prove you belong (ala Koren Robinson and Holmgren). This is a young team that has flashes of brilliance scattered about their extended periods of stupidity. I detest the fact that we can’t run the ball. Shoving it down someone’s throat at your will really seems to make a statement. KC did it last night in OT against the Bolts. Reminds me of the days when Okoye used to run all over everybody (Seattle mostly).

    Let the bandwagon jumpers go. When the team turns around, they will be back. Everyone who actually understands how this works will just be standing there with smirks on our faces saying “I told you so”.

  13. Dukeshire says:

    If I didn’t know better, I’d have thought Jim Moore wrote that Charger piece. That’s not journalism. That’s pure criticism, and not very well done either, IMO.

    I’m surprised people are skeptical of the 49ers. They are a good football team. Perhaps not Super Bowl contenders yet, but they are sound on both sides of the ball. Quality wins @ Phily, vs Tampa and @ Detroit in consecutive weeks is pretty damn impressive. They have a lot of talent there, as much as we may not want to admit it. I for one am glad they are playing well. The higher the bar is raised within your own division, they better you have to be to get where you want to go. This is good for the future of the ‘Hawks, IMO.

  14. PixelDummy says:

    The Niners are good this year, and I think they will continue to have success THIS year…however I still think Alex Smith is below mediocre and next year they wont sneak up on anyone and will be .500 at best…

    More perspective:

    If this was any other year, with the Niners as their usual selves…we would be just about tied for first in the NFC West right now.

  15. The past lions sorta remind me of this years seahawks, to be honest.

    Also, SF did beat detroit.

    More important than anything else said thus far:

    Carrolls hoodie is very very nice. I’m gonna need to pick up one of those.

  16. “Harbaugh is making him look like a complete joke.”

    I couldn’t disagree more. Yes, Harbaugh is doing a good job with the niners. But what you need to realize is that team has been stacked with talent for a couple years but have been so inept at the coaching position that they have tanked year after year. In no way am i saying Harbaugh is not a good coach, however, you can not say he is making Pete look like a joke. That is comparing apples and onions. I still have faith in this FO, and i think US as HAWK fans need to remain calm and believe in what is going on. Give PCJS some time to build this thing. Let them get their QBOF, and some other pieces together before we call for their heads. As Duke said, this is not an easy task. Let the man do his thing and the price will pay off in the end.

  17. I wonder if pete will send me that hoodie if I ask him on twitter.

  18. mojjonation says:

    I forgot about the Dettroit win. Other than that, I am not impressed with the Niner’s work. I think the closest thing I can compare them to are the Ravens of 2000. Dilfer was asked NOT TO LOSE. He did and they won a SB with defense and a ground game. The Niners aren’t exactly the Ravens, but with Smith at the helm and Gore in the backfield, that’s about the best thing that comes to mind. And yes, those pieces have been in place a long time. They were just missing their own version of a zen master to put it together. Enter Harbaugh.

    I will grab my crow and bite the head off since I was never on the TJack bandwagon. I’m still not, but he is our best alternative. While he may be the lesser of two evils, I can’t question his mental or physical toughness. He gets plenty of yards but not a lot of points. That’s pretty much playing between the 20’s, which anyone can do. You make your mark in the red zone. We do not have any of those guys yet, but I believe we are on our way to getting and developing them.

    So yes, losing sucks. And I never believed in “Suck for Luck”. If you intentionally play bad, you will never know your own potential.
    There is never a guarantee of a franchise QB no matter where you draft him. Between Top Pick “The next Joe Montana” Rick Mirer and 6th round forgotten about Tom Brady, who would you want running your team?

  19. I’m calling *&^%$# on being okay with banking on some late round QB taking the reigns to this franchise. If there is a Tom Brady late round pick coming out this year, we’ve got a 1/32 chance in getting him. Odds are, nobody in the 6th-7th round this upcoming April is ever going to be a good starting QB. For every Tom Brady who was drafted in the 6th round, there are a heck of a lot more guys like Mike Teel who are gone and out of the league in a short time.

    This is a fact:

    There are 16 teams in the NFC.

    Eleven of those teams have a QB who was a 1st round pick.

    Three more teams are starting 2nd round picks (one of which, Drew Brees, was the first pick in the 2nd round).

    Basically, that leaves two out of 16 teams who aren’t starting a 1st or 2nd round pick. Tony Romo and whatever the crap the Redskins are doing (although it’s pretty safe to say they will be drafting one in the 1st round in April, but if we look at their opening day starter, Sexy Rexy, he was also a former 1st rounder).

    While there are busts drafted at every position on the football field, it’s clear that, if you’re smart enough to play the percentages, you need to find your franchise QB early. Just because we were snakebitten by the likes of McGwire, Stouffer, and Mirer doesn’t hide the fact that in the NFL today your best bet at getting a legit franchise QB comes from getting him in the 1st round.

    If we don’t sign Matt Flynn we really need to get the QB solidified position early in the draft. I know Matt Flynn was a later round pick but the difference with him is that he’s been in the NFL and is respected as a legit prospect moving forward, whereas the 6th round QBs drafted this year certainly won’t be seen in that light.

    And, really, you can make some Joe Montana-Rick Mirer argument for any position.

    Do you want an undrafted LB like Rufus Porter or a 1st round pick like Aaron Curry? There goes ever drafting a LB in the 1st round.

    Do we want a 4th round DL like Red Bryant or a 1st rounder like Lamar King? So much for ever wanting a DL in the 1st round again.

    Do we want a 1st rounder like Koren Robinson or an undrafted kid like Baldwin. No more 1st round WRs here!

    Do we want an undrafted stud like Bryan Millard on our offensive line or Ray Roberts? I guess that means no more offensive linemen again for a 1st round pick.

    Basically, you can say stuff like that for every position on the football field. But the facts are that most good starting QBs come from the 1st round of the draft. Over half of all starting QBs in the NFL are former 1st round picks.

  20. HasselbecksHair says:

    Hey FleaFlicker, I agree with all your comments about the Hawks, nice post… except for the part about “I don’t count the ’79 Sonics…this has never been a basketball town”. Do you have one of those medical marijuana licenses? What have you been smoking? No need to bash the Sonics in this forum. Show a little respect. I still believe in Pete & the direction of the team. Kam, Earl, Sydney, Baldwin, Okung & the young line, Red, most of the D, no Kelly Jennings or Curry… good stuff, we’re building a talented young foundation.

  21. nidhighe says:

    Wow, more “fans” calling for Pete’s dismissal? You can’t succeed with a constant coaching carousel. Did you call for Holmgren to be dismissed in his 2nd season because a 9-7 playoff team the previous season went 6-10?

  22. The “fire Pete Carroll” stuff is crazy. The guy won a playoff game last year and has improved the team in many areas. Firing him would be the same as firing Holmgren in 2001 or 2002.

  23. Make that 2000 and 2002 (both disappointing seasons, though 2002 ended well.

  24. “The “fire Pete Carroll” stuff is crazy. The guy won a playoff game last year and has improved the team in many areas.”

    None of the rational fans are saying this. We all knew the offense would be a work in progress this year, esp the O-line, and that has come to pass.

    I think the defense is fulfilling damn near our best hopes this year – and is starting to give our team an identity based on that side of the ball – something we haven’t had since the days of Kenny Easley.

    There are bound to be more frustrating moments this year – but I’m convinced better days are ahead.

  25. freedom_X says:

    As for San Francisco’s fast start, remember that the 1st year of Holmgren started out 8-2 if I recall correctly. And Pete Carroll started out, what, 5-2? Remember Tony Dungy actually saying that Seattle could be the best team in the NFC (at the time?)

    I think the 49ers have more legs than that, because they’ve had 5 years of stockpiling talent with high picks in the draft. Harbaugh has just unlocked it. But let’s see where they are at the end of the season.

    To fire Pete Carroll purely because of a poor record is knee-jerk management which dooms the Seattle franchise to eternal mediocrity. Either they believe in his plan or not. If you believe in his plan, he has to be given the time to execute it.

    That plan I believe was to reconstruct the franchise from the ground up (on the field.) That’s why Carroll asked for and was granted the long term guaranteed contract. Paul Allen must have agreed to this and must be willing to take the lumps while doing so.

    Seattle is basically a expansion franchise now, since they blew out so many existing players. How long does it take an expansion franchise to be good? At least 3 years I would think.

    If Seattle wanted a quick fix, they hired the wrong coach. I didn’t want a quick fix, because I thought the team was fundamentally flawed and won’t get better until it’s properly reconstructed.

    The problem is, in the offseason, so many fans say they want to build it up properly, but when it comes time to actually do it, they don’t want to take the losses that come with it.

    Just like everyone wants to cut the budget deficit, but when you have to raise taxes or cut spending to do it, they mewl and scream about it. Or cutting calories and exercising more to lose weight and get into shape. Nobody wants to take the pain to a goal. Welcome to reality.

  26. The 2001 Trojans started 2-5. Fans and sports writers jumped all over Carroll, calling him an undisciplined coach and calling USC a dying program.

    Carroll’s Trojans went 67–7 over the next 74 games.

    Any questions?

  27. confucious says:

    Nice post Freedom. My thoughts exactly.

  28. Well said, Freedom. We don’t want a quick fix. That would give us 2006 and 2007. We want a Super Bowl title. If it means struggling in 2011 and 2012, but winning the Super Bowl in 2013 or 2014, I’ll take it.

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