Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Reaction to Hawks 34-12 loss

Post by Eric Williams on Oct. 31, 2011 at 7:46 am with 34 Comments »
October 31, 2011 7:46 am
Seattle Seahawks linebacker David Vobora can't hold onto Cincinnati's Brandon Tate has he returns a punt 56 yards for a touchdown. (AP Photo/Elaine Thompson)

Good morning. We’ll have our weekly, Monday Morning QB live chat at noon today, and a report from Pete Carroll’s 3 p.m. press conference later this afternoon.

Here’s some reaction from Seattle’s 34-12 loss to Cincinnati on Sunday.

Check out the stats and highlights from the game here.

And here’s my game story from Sunday. With San Francisco beating Cleveland, Seattle sits at 2-5, four games behind the Niners and with any realistic hopes of winning the division fading fast.

Dave Boling of The News Tribune takes Carroll to task for not starting Tarvaris Jackson over Charlie Whitehurst at the beginning of the game, giving the No. 2-ranked defense in the league a 10-0 head start.

John McGrath of The News Tribune takes on Carroll for the questionable call to go for it on fourth down at the end of the first half.

Doug Pacey of The News Tribune writes that running back Marshawn Lynch shouldered the blame for Seattle’s ineffective run game.

Seven games into the season the Seahawks are still making stupid penalties. They had another 11 for 80 yards on Sunday, and Carroll says it needs to stop.

More Pacey: The Seahawks get an up-close look at the quarterback they could have drafted in Cincinnati’s Andy Dalton.

Clare Farnsworth of Seahawks.com says that the same old problems plagued the Seahawks on Sunday.

ESPN’s Mike Sando writes that Carroll needs to start coaching like his job depends on it, and also needs to make sure he addresses the quarterback situation in the offseason.

Christian Caple of Seattlepi.com provides some player reaction from the locker room.

Jerry Brewer of the Seattle Times writes the new P-word for Seattle to aspire to is progress, not playoffs.

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Morning links
Leave a comment Comments → 34
  1. Best comment I’ve seen here in all the ranting:

    nidhighe: “Only thing worse than the loss is fans screaming for Jackson to be cut, Carroll to be fired, and whatever other silly idea they may have.

    It took Holmgren 5 years to rebuild the team, and the talent level when he took over was nowhere near as bad as the mess that Ruskell left. The team regressed in Holmgren’s 2nd year, and it wasn’t until his 3rd year that he found his QB.

    2012 will be when Carroll gets his QB, and then he deserves at least 2 seasons to develop him.”

    @nidhighe – I think that’s exactly right. This is where we are in this rebuild. The awkward adolescent stage. The poor teams get impatient with years like this, change their rebuilding plan year after year, and continually screw it up. The great ones make 4 or 5 year plans and stick to them for 4 or 5 years.

  2. Dukeshire says:

    On the surface, that’s a fine sentiment. However, would Holmgren tolerate these penalties (false starts. 5 in one game?!?)? Holmgren didn’t devalue points (field goals) the way Carroll has in his two seasons here. There is a gross lack of discipline that is filtering down to the play on the field and it comes directly from Carroll. Calling for him to be fired now is reactionary and stupid. Agreed. But there is a real problem here. This team / franchise may indeed be in the “The awkward adolescent stage” of their rebuild, but that ought not include the head coach. He needs to demonstrate a steady hand and demand sound, fundamental football from his young players. He needs to make the right call, as difficult as it may be, not the “aggressive” one only to later admit he let his emotions get the better of him. Unacceptable on all fronts, IMO.

  3. I have to pull a Jim Mora, but a lot of this goes on Jon Ryan. He kills the coverage unit with his out of control, easy to return punts.

  4. Carroll is letting things slide in his locker room that not another single head coach in this league would tolerate. How many other current NFL head Coaches use twitter? I can’t think of any off hand.

    Actually, I found Jim Schwartz uses it.

    It seems like the locker room is very loose, very unprofessional, and the coach is a buddy instead of the boss. When has the “player’s coach” ever really succeeded in this league. While I like the “real rob report”, and think it’s a cool thing to do, I’m not sure there’s time for that in an NFL locker room, especially on of a team that’s as inept as the seahawks.

  5. HawkfaninMT says:

    So in the theme of “staying the course” and “continuing with the rebuild” and “not being reactionary” …

    What to do about Bevell and the OC position as a whole? Change it for the 4th in time in 4 years? Keep it and hope he improves?

  6. I have to agree with some of those comments on Carroll’s game decisions, and the lack of discipline/penalties. There are things about this coach that I absolutely love – how he recruits, drafts, develops young players, inspires them, takes chances, etc – and then there are some things that really make me scratch my head – like those 2nd quarter play call mistakes yesterday, and all those players repeating the same penalties we saw last week.

  7. HawkfaninMT, not only is Bevell new to working with Pete Carrolls staff and scheme, and not only is the whole roster (except TJack and Rice) new to him, but he didn’t even meet these guys until August. In other years, a new OC starts teaching his players and coaches his system in May. I don’t like being patient either, but fact is that everything about this season is months behind schedule.

  8. Dukeshire says:

    Stevo – That’s the rub for me too. On the one hand, Carroll will break a player off in a heartbeat that’s not 100% on board. On the other hand, he’s not really about sound, fundamental football / decision making. He’s an amazing talent evaluator (primarily on the defensive side) but has made two puzzling decisions at QB. And so it goes… There’s a real dichotomy with him that I find really frustrating after two very lackluster and awfully undisciplined games, coming out of the bye. This team has taken strides backward since the Atlanta and Giants games.

  9. Agreed, Duke.

    I watched some of the eagles-cowboys game last night. The cowboys new D, coached by Rob Ryan, was completely overwhelmed by an Eagles team that previously couldn’t get out of its own way. Its a strange season. I think the lockout introduced an extra dose of randomness and unpreparedness into this season. For any team that is rebuilding/changing coaches, its hard to predict who wins next week.

    I can see our offense going into Dallas and pulling things together. I could also see them embarrassing themselves again.

  10. HawkyHann says:

    Last week ESPN played circus music while running “highlights” of Seattle’s offense. This week they deserve the same soundtrack. Darrell Bevell’s product is becoming a joke on the field and a punchline nationally.

    Freaking embarrising.

  11. Palerydr says:

    I read a lot of the comments from after the game but I try to refrain from making knee jerk posts at least I think I do.

    1) Special Teams have got to put it together for an entire games IMO they have now cost us 2 games yesterday and SF.

    2) Penalties the reason you didn’t make mistakes when Holmgren was coach cuz you had to go back to the sideline where he would have some very bad words to say to you. I’m sure those words were the most unpleasant a grown man could ever want to hear. Carrol has got to figure out a way that works for him but conveys the message penalties are unacceptable especially false start/mental type.

    3) Points are never to be devalued you have to know you get the ball back to start the next half, kick the FG.

    4) I was never on board for the Gallery signing and it makes me happy to see other posters are also on the cut Gallery wagon with me welcome aboard.

  12. Palerydr says:

    Regarding the other posters who recognize the Defense is pretty decent. I agree Carrol has an eye for good defenders. He does however play too much like the College coach he was and taking high risk chances. In the pros you have to play the safe percentages more than your hunches to be successful.

  13. I don’t see Carrol as an overall talent evalutator – he has made over 300 personnel moves – some of them very questionable. Our team is CLEARLY not as good as it was last year or 2 years ago. our depth IS NOT GOOD. if anyone one of our starters on the OL is out then there is a significant drop off not just a little. why you would cut whoever it was who played left guard for us at the end of last year with what we have left is crazy.

    who are the guys who are KEEPERS on this team NO MATTER WHAT

    Def:
    Thomas
    Chancellor
    and ???
    you can make a case for Clemons, Hargrove, Mebane, Bryant but are they really that great? Hawthorne – Wright- could they be improved?

    Off:
    Rice
    Miller
    Baldwin
    and ????
    you could make a case for Obo, Carlson, and a few lineman but until they prove they can actually stay on the field you can’t build around them

    so on a roster of 52 guys are we really that well off. I thought we were making progress towards getting better, right now I am not so sure.

    I am NOT saying Fire Carroll but he has to be told that next year there better be SIGNIFICANT improvement. 8 or 9 win minimum he got 7 wins with someone elses players adding his should be similar or above. Right now I just don’t see it.

  14. on the O side, I’d stick with Okung, Unger, Williams, Lynch, as well.

    on the D side, I’d stick with Tru, Hill, Heater, Mebane, Bryant, and Clem, as well.

  15. Dukeshire says:

    xcman – Including rookies on that list is unreasonable, IMO. Especially considering they were unable to have any contact with the team for nearly 4 months due to the lockout.

    Polumbus is who you are thinking of. And the Cut him because of injuries at other positions and needed the space. Carroll admitted just how difgicult a decision that was.

  16. It’s easy to think that this year’s team, at 2-5, is worse than last year’s team. But we have to remember that four of the five losses were winnable going into the fourth quarter. The team has made significant strides and while it doesn’t show in the win-loss record, it eventually will. This team may end up being 6-10 but will have a stronger foundation than last year’s 7-9 team. It’s like comparing 1999 (a 9-7 team that backed into the playoffs) with 2002 (a 7-9 team on the rise). We enjoyed five straight playoff years from 2003 to 2007 and could do the same from 2012 onwards.

    I do agree that PC needs to do a better job of coaching, but I recall Holmgren being terrible at clock management. The end-of-the-half debacle is quite Holmgrenesque.

  17. You guys can’t see the forest for the trees.

    This is an awesome time in Seahawks football.

  18. Every team, coach, and player has strengths and weaknesses. For example, Holmgren was a little too loyal to his players, and Carroll can be too aggressive in his play calling and apparently too gentle in dealing with players who repeat penalties or repeatedly drop the ball; Holmgren had the same problem with his receivers.

    It’s going to turn around as this team matures. Watch and see!

  19. All I am really saying is that I am not sold on what Carrol is doing yet, I could get there but I just don’t see continuity or a real plan at getting better.

    Injuries happen to every team but the seahawks are seem to be more affected than other teams. Both in number and lack of quality depth. Some of that is because we are rebuilding but some of it is because of the constant turn over, guys aren’t here long enough to learn the system and to gel with other players. We have had many (IMO) lateral moves with players that don’t help us (i.e. trading a C+ player for another C+ caliber player)- I would rather have the guy who has been around UNLESS the new guy is better.

    @Duke – it was Gibson I was thinking of – he actually out preformed the back up OG we kept during the preseason and it was questioned on this board when he was cut.

  20. Hate to say it but I think the reality here is that the Carroll/Schneider regime is likely to be judged by only one thing, the best QB on the roster in 2012/2013. The other issues are fun to talk about though becuase if we identify them now, like Stevos and Dukeshire and others have, we can track progress until that time. The QB choice will override everything in the future though I think.

  21. LeePridemore says:

    Boo! Ring my bell, boys. I have Associated Press Style Guides for everyone.

  22. Dukeshire says:

    xman – Mike Gibson, okay. Yeah I actually thought he played fairly well at the end of last season too.

  23. HawkfaninMT says:

    My argument with Bevell isn’t the execution of the plays… I don’t think! Do you really trust him with the Offense next year, and to be in charge of the development of a Rookie QB going forward?

    I am not trying to be argumentative, because I don’t have a name to give that is an upgrade… It would depend on offseason firings I suppose. But it seems that lots of folks are being taken to task and I don’t think that Bevell should escape condemnation. He does call the offensive plays doesn’t he? Obviously Pete made the decision at half to go for it, but I have to imagine he said “Darrell, you have a play that can get us in there?”

  24. chrisj122 says:

    My problem with the call of going for it at the end of the first half was burning your last time out before you call the play. Bevell should have already known what play he was going to call and Carrol should have been able to make that decesion to go for it or not without taking the last timeout, instead saving the timeout incase you don’t get the T.D.

  25. CHawkFanIn9erLand says:

    I agree with a lot of the posts here, but I gotta say that if you’re team isn’t very good and still has a lot of holes, you can’t play the percentages. Sometimes you have to take a shot when you think you have it. I thought they should have taken the Field goal, but I also understand him thinking he had a chance at two plays.

    Duke, what are the two puzzling QB decisions? I see one that puzzles me … the move for CW. Or are you talking about the decision to start CW yesterday? I took it to mean you were talking about roster decisions.

  26. Does anyone remember the 12-men in the huddle penalty late in the 4th quarter when the Vikings were driving to beat the Saints and advance to the Super Bowl? Was that on Bevell or Childress? That was a huge play. If that doesn’t happen, then Favre probably doesn’t throw the INT and they would have kicked the FG and history changes. What I do know is that the discipline issue we have is utterly pathetic. Stupid penalties R-Us. That’s the new wave of Seattle Seahawks “Football.”

  27. PixelDummy says:

    Perspective:

    Holmy inherited a team that had went 8-8 the two previous seasons, and then led the Hawks to a record of 9-7 in 1999, 6-10 in 2000, 9-7 in 2001 and 7-9 in 2002.

    PC inherited a team that had went 5-11 and 4-12(w/ Holmy in 2008) the two previous seasons, and has led the Hawks to 7-9(and a playoff win) and a 2-5 start to his second season.

  28. Not that I’m an apologist for Bevell, but people were pretty happy with his offense in 2009.

  29. MikePDX, you are absolutely right. If Holmy had not developed Hasselbeck, we wouldn’t have enjoyed that Super Bowl year. And if PC/JS don’t develop a QB, whether it’s TJ or a draft pick, it will lead to more failure in 2012 and 2013.

    PixelDummy, thanks for the perspective. Let’s not get carried away with the “Fire PC” nonsense.

  30. chrisj122 says:

    This was one of those scrappy games, where alot of extra ciricular activity takes place after the play. It seems in games like this our young Offense gets rattled and can’t respond with the same intesity and tend to make mistakes/penalties. Lynch seemed to the one on offense that can match the intesity and “bring it”, thats probably why he was so visibily frustrated.

    Our D on the other hand seemed to match the intesity of the Bengals and was hitting just as hard if not harder. I liked what I was seeing from them.

    In a nuttshell our O.L. needs to step up and start playing like the dirt bags they are or we need to find new dirtbags.

  31. Dukeshire says:

    CHawkFanIn9erLand – I was referring to CW and Jackson, actually. Perhaps not that they went after each of them but what they intend(ed) for each considering the length of their contracts.

    Bobby – And that 12 man in the huddle was immediately following a timeout. Since Childress was the playcaller there( I believe) I would place the blame on him.

  32. SandpointHawk says:
  33. It was after a timeout. I thought it was pretty darn funny. Maybe Bevell is just used to being around undisciplined people.

  34. OK, fire the coach and FO and bring back Mora and his team. Will that make some of you happy? Watching the team lose is easier than listing to the bs here at times.
    Most of you are much more informed and up to date than I am, but the hindsight and second-guessing is a bit much. If Lynch gains one more yard, everything is wonderful?
    This team makes too many mistakes, for sure, but they don’t quit like a few years ago.
    Anyone saying the team has less depth hasn’t been looking to closely.
    Excuse me for pointing out one person, but Duke has always been a voice of reason before, now you seem discouraged by a couple of admittedly poor games. Remember there were a couple of good games just before that. Even the Cincy game was 50/50 good and bad.

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