Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Thomas and McCoy face off

Post by Eric Williams on Oct. 20, 2011 at 7:31 am with 35 Comments »
October 20, 2011 7:31 am
Earl Thomas and Colt McCoy at Texas. (AP file photo)

In my story today, they met daily at practice at the University of Texas, with Seattle safety Earl Thomas winning some and Cleveland Colt McCoy proclaiming victory other times.

Now the two former Longhorns will meet on the field as second-year pros for the first time in the NFL.

“He would never say it, but he kind of kicked off my career in a way,” Thomas said. “In the spring game (my freshman year), I picked him off for like 50 (yards) – he was chasing me to the end zone. I kind of did him bad right there. But he’s always saying it was a (pass interference) call – you know how quarterbacks are. But he’s a good guy, though.”

Of course, McCoy offers a slightly different version of that story.

“Yeah he picked us off,” McCoy said. “He should. He’d seen all of our plays all spring.”

Clare Farnsworth of Seahawks.com focuses on quarterback Tarvaris Jackson’s effort to get back on the practice field in Wednesday’s practice report.

ESPN’s Mike Sando writes that the Seahawks have been good in short yardage situations this season.

Danny O’Neil of the Seattle Times talks to former Seahawks head coach Jim Mora, who will be in the TV booth for Fox calling the Seahawks game at Cleveland.

Art Thiel of SportspressNW.com says there’s not many players left from the Mike Holmgren era, as the Seahawks face the his team, the Cleveland Browns on Sunday.

Jerry Brewer of the Seattle Times writes that three years removed from the Holmgren era, Seahawks head coach’s rebuilding effort is headed in the right direction.

John Boyle of the Everett Herald says Seattle’s young secondary will have to step up with Marcus Trufant done for the season.

Brian Burke at the New York Times’ Fifth Down blog gives Seattle a 34 percent win probability at Cleveland.

Doug Farrar of Yahoo Sports writes the Seahawks were just fine with not getting involved in the Carson Palmer sweepstakes.

Andrew Brandt of the National Football Post has a great read about the dangers of not having a general manager in place, focusing on Oakland’s deal with Cincinnati to get Carson Palmer. It does not make my Raiders look good.

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Morning links
Leave a comment Comments → 35
  1. SeahawkFan12 says:

    Eric, sorry buddy, but I agree that the Raiders really went out on a limb with the Palmer trade. Who knows, maybe they’ll prove everyone (including me) wrong, but I for one am SO glad Seattle didn’t get involved in the Palmer debacle.

    I agree that 3 years removed from the Holmgren era, we are headed in the right direction. I miss Holmgren and always liked his interviews. Can hardly wait for him and Hasselbeck to inducted into The Ring of Honor!

  2. Palmer would have to win a Super Bowl for the Raiders to make it a good deal for them. Either that or play for at least five years at a Pro Bowl level.

    I wonder if Hasselbeck’s success in Tennessee after struggling for a few years in Seattle helped convince the Raiders that Palmer might also have a resurgence on a new team.

  3. seahawk44 says:

    Can somebody tell me the current Seahawk players that were on the team when Carroll took over?

  4. Palerydr says:

    Read Brandt’s post he really knows his stuff IMO. I agree Carson Palmer is going to have to win a Super bowl for this trade to be worthy of the compensation. Even now as I’m typing I’m not sure that is gonna make this deal any better as far as the long term aspect of what the 2 players the Raiders select amount to. Of course both could be busts as we all know so how would the trade look then?

  5. I can’t believe that all the experts have jumped on the Niners’ bandwagon, thinking they’re some sort of juggernaut that has the division wrapped up. They won a couple of close road games; otherwise they’d be 4-3, not 5-1. I’m not saying they aren’t a good team, but it’s way too early to be crowning them division champs. Anything can happen in the last 10 games. Alex Smith may start playing like Alex Smith.

  6. aldenroche says:

    Hill, Trufant, Bryant, Obomanu, Forsett, Mebane, Ryan, Hawthorne, Lewis, Butler, Unger

  7. “Palmer is going to have to win a Super bowl for this trade to be worthy of the compensation.”

    At this point, after missing the playoffs the past ten years, if the Raiders are legit playoff contenders for the next few years, Palmer will be looked at as a great move.

    He doesn’t necessarily need pro-bowls, and they don’t need to make it to the Superbowl…I think just being relevant again for 2-3 years would be enough.

  8. Not sure about that, Audible. They’re not the Detroit Lions. They’ve won three Super Bowls and numerous playoff games in their history. And they were 8-8 last year. I’m sure they have higher expectations than just being playoff contenders.

  9. Palerydr says:

    @Audible IMO the Raiders didn’t get a any better with this trade Palmer is just replacing Campbell. Campbell was on pace IMO to get them into the playoffs this year as well as the next 2-3 years. So you are gonna get the same results from Palmer but now it costs you a 1st and conditional 2nd round picks. So yea I think that winning the super bowl is the only way to justify this trade.

  10. Dukeshire says:

    The Raiders have a lot of talent, on offense. And while I never would have given 2 firsts for Palmer, he does make some sense there. It strikes me as a bit of a “Gannon” type move. He’s a pros pro that will be a stabilizing influence for that team. And while in the broader picture they aren’t Super Bowl contenders, they are in position to win that division and once in, anything can happen.

    Thomas and McCoy, two good guys. I’m sure they’ve having fun with each other this week. I’m really excited about the game this week. I have nothing to base this on but my gut says that they come out strong. Can’t wait!

  11. Palerydr says:

    The other aspect of this trade is the financials. Here you are up against the cap and you add a huge contract that is gonna cost you players over the next couple of years. So how competitive are you gonna remain when you have to start cutting starters or key backups?

  12. seahawk44 says:

    What nobody is talking about with this Palmer trade is how much Cincinnati will benefit from these extra high draft picks the next few years. The Bengals are already a team on the rise and seem to have their QB in place.

  13. Dukeshire says:

    Understood. But I would say that contracts are far easier to adjust than re-cooping picks. I guess what we are saying, from different angles, is that they paid / are going to pay, a heavy price for a roll of the dice.

  14. “the Raiders didn’t get a any better with this trade Palmer is just replacing Campbell.”

    Campbell has a broken collarbone, so they didn’t have a starting caliber quarterback in the lineup…now what? Give up on the season with a 4-2 record?

  15. SandpointHawk says:

    Well they did have to replace Campbell, who are the going to turn to Kyle Boller? They also might have wanted a proven vet to bring Terrelle Pryor along but who knows…it’s the Raiders…

  16. SandpointHawk says:

    Oh,by the way, I hated the price they paid but…it’s the Raiders…

  17. Judging the Palmer trade in the end will likely come down to whether Palmer’s injury issues are behind him or not. If he plays healthy for the next few years, the Raiders look like geniuses. If not, they’ll look like idiots.

  18. mojjonation says:

    I don’t think Campbell has the ability to lead them anywhere if a team along the lines of Baltimore, Pittsburgh, or any other of a number of teams that can make you one dimensional, can do. Load up to stop the run and the big mouth Raiders become one dimensional. Campbell didn’t do it in Washington when he had Portis and was replaced with McNabb. Why does anyone think he can do it for the Raiders? Maybe because they are in the second weakest division in all of football next to the NFC West.

    I agree that the Niners are pretty much a paper champion. 5-1 with one quality victory. The Eagles lost that game, the Niners didn’t win it. They should have beat Dallas, but they choked. Seattle had their foot on the throat but special teams gave up two huge plays. Again, make these guys one dimensional, make Alex Smith beat you, and they go nowhere.

  19. if you stop the run, any team becomes one dimensional… because, well, you stopped the run, and now they’ve got to pass.

  20. Might as well put “It’s the Raiders” on a bumper sticker.

  21. Seeing these reporters talking about the Browns and “Holmgren Week” gives a lot to think about.

    I didn’t like seeing Holmgren leave, especially in the messy way things were communicated through the press from both sides. But looking back three years later, I’m now glad the Seahawks drew a hard line and told Holmgren he couldn’t have everything his way.

    The Seahawks are on a better path than are the Browns, IMO.

    I won’t quibble over rosters, because both teams are very young and unproven, and both may have some future stars in the making. All I really need to look at is this:

    Mike Holmgren still employs Keith Gilbertson and Ray Rhoes as “Senior Assistants”. Nothing wrong with having an older and more experienced staff than your opponent, but does this look like a team preparing to be the “next great thing”? And why would a young Head Coach like Pat Shurmer have such old guys as his coaching “assistants”? Only because of Holmren’s control over everyone under him.

    Not that I didn’t like Holmy’s hire of Pat Shumur as Head Coach, I did. (People wonder what’s wrong with the Rams’ Sam Bradford this year – well, last year Pat Shurmur was coaching him and calling his plays.)

    Looking at the Seahawks today, I think that everything Tod Leiweke told us was true — they let Holmgren walk because Holmgren wanted Total Control, while Leiweke and Allen believed there’s a better model for success. The hiring of Carroll and Schneider in tandem proved to be a great plan, and these guys are building a team oriented toward the Future NFL, not the past. Case in point – our emphasis on WRs who can leap and tall DBs who can intimidate at the LOS and hawk the ball – this is thinking in terms of what’s next in the NFL. Smaller Cover DBs will be less successful under new rules, and taller WRs have greater advantages – PC and Schneider are thinking ahead.

    The Holmgren Era is officially over, and I’m happy with the direction we’re going.

  22. Doesn’t Carroll have total control with the Seahawks? There is no one to overrule him in football matters, but he can overrule everyone else.

  23. Eric compared Harbaugh to Josh McDaniel, which I think is spot-on with maybe a little Singletary. I don’t think these ego-maniac coaches won’t sustain success. The 49ers’ crash-n-burn is just around the corner.

  24. Alex Smith is going to be a liability for the Niners. They have a good defense, but it’s not a great one, and if teams are able to stop Frank Gore, the pressure will be on Smith. Passing for 125 yards won’t cut it. Of course, Niner fans are probably saying similar stuff about the Seahawks.

  25. williambryan says:

    I think it’s a little over the top to kill the raiders for this trade. I can’t stand them, I don’t think Palmer is that good anymore, but really, they just traded two picks that have a high probability of becoming busts. Fans value draft picks too much in my opinion. Who needs a draft pick when you can get Doug Baldwin as an undrafted free agent!

  26. I don’t have a prediction about how well Palmer will do for the Raiders, or for how long. I do think the price was too high, and I think I prefer Carroll/Schneider’s approach of building through the draft, but here’s a question: if Palmer does end up giving them 3-5 years of quality QB play, could he be thought of as a “good mid-late first round pick” in terms of value? That would mean they ‘lost’ one first/second round pick on the deal. At that point it doesn’t sound quite as bad.

  27. Palerydr says:

    @Audible in the short term maybe they got better. Palmer hasn’t played a down for them yet. He could lead them to an 8-8 season or worse and outside the playoffs. He could get inj in his first series how would you look at the trade then? As I pointed out they also are now responsible for his contract which is going to lead to other players getting cut. Those players could possibly be replaced by the draft picks they have given up. Short term better long term not so good.

    Fans value high draft picks because in their minds high draft picks become the stars of the team. They are the guys you are going to go out and spend $140 and buy their jersey. Undrafted FA have an extremely low probability of making teams but granted some do every year and become very good NFL players. These types of players(Baldwin) are the exception not the rule.

  28. pabuwal: “Doesn’t Carroll have total control with the Seahawks? There is no one to overrule him in football matters, but he can overrule everyone else.”

    My comments weren’t about who technically has authority to hire or fire people, they were about how these two teams reflect two very different men. From what I’ve seen, Carroll leads a staff of very forward-looking football people. I was suggesting that, in comparison, Holmgren’s team is looking a bit stuck in the past.

    From what I’ve seen, Carroll and Schneider are full partners in managing this team. Carroll didn’t draft or sign all the top players he recruited at USC like people predicted he would. And many Seahawks personnel decisions bear the signs of conservative and studied cap management – those are John Schneider decisions. I think Carroll knows a good personnel man when he sees one, and I see JS’ fingerprints all over this team, right next to Carroll’s.

  29. And, how much better would this team be if Carroll and Schneider would communicate and just try to get along?!

  30. OlyBones says:

    Hi, all. Long time, first time, as callers say on the radio. I appreciate all your posts, looking forward to reading the boards every day.

    Though I was sad to see Lofa let go, as a fan favorite, it was one of the defining factors of the Carroll regime…. He’s not going to value the players he’s previously coached over those who may have better upside, or fit the scheme better. I believe that goes double for the lack of interest on the FO’s part in Palmer. I love what the Hawks are doing with late and un-drafted players, like Baldwin. The team of Schneider/Carroll seems to excell at finding diamonds in the rough.

    San Fran has been the safe pick for talking heads for the past couple seasons, but have yet to take advantage of games down the stretch, allowing a team like the lowely 7-9 Seahawks to take the division last year over the Rams, of all teams. They may be the real deal this year, but, even if they make the playoffs this year, I wouldn’t expect much more than that out of them. It’s their first year with Harbaugh, and a first year coach rarely takes a team to the promised land (tho, stranger things have happened).

  31. OlyBones says:

    Also, to get back to the topic of this thread, I can’t wait to see Earl take one back to the house on Colt…. Not saying, just saying.

  32. “Though I was sad to see Lofa let go, as a fan favorite, it was one of the defining factors of the Carroll regime…. He’s not going to value the players he’s previously coached over those who may have better upside.”

    That’s a thought that crossed my mind, but on the other side of that coin, I think Lofa may have been a casualty of Carroll trying to prove that.

  33. freedom_X says:

    The fact that Lofa Tatupu hasn’t been able to pick up a job anywhere else (the Raiders opted to give up picks for Aaron Curry rather than sign Tatupu as a free agent) should show that Carroll valued him correctly. Teams that would be good fits for Lofa (Tampa Bay and Indianpolis) passed on him too.

    Remember, Carroll wanted him to take a pay cut. He didn’t just cut him. Only after Tatupu refused did Carroll cut him loose. And it looks like Carroll read Tatupu’s market value pretty well. I don’t see Carroll reaching to make a point here, not at all.

    The Curry move was more of a wakeup call to the team than anything else. The plus of all this, is that the vast majority of moves make sense. So it reinforces accountability in the locker room, as opposed to a sense of arbitrary fear and coaching favortism (such as what Josh McDaniels did, as the most recent example.)

  34. WilliamBryan, I think you are off base with this one. Just because you can occasionally find gems like Baldwin as UFA’s doesn’t lessen the value of draft picks. Look at the success rate of UFA’s. It’s VERY LOW. It just SEEMS more special because it is totally unexpected. Plus, there are a lot more players that go undrafted each year than are drafted. So you have a bigger pool of players to score with. You can draft a bust in any round. It’s just a matter of percentages. You have a better chance of drafting a good player in the 1st round than in any other, probably somewhere around 50/50. A better chance in the 2nd than the 3rd and so on. Doesn’t mean you will draft a good player, just a better chance of it statistically. That said, the Raiders are historically pretty horrible at drafting, although they seemed to be improved the last couple of years, and maybe there high draft choices aren’t as valuable to them.

  35. Audible: “And, how much better would this team be if Carroll and Schneider would communicate and just try to get along?!”

    Strangest post I’ve seen here in a while. What in the world gives you the impression that Carroll and Schneider don’t communicate or don’t get along? (Did you really believe that bogus story planted in the media by that one disgruntled agent??) Try naming another NFL Head Coach and GM who are seen spending as much time with each other as Carroll and Schneider.

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