Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Reaction to Hawks 30-28 loss

Post by Eric Williams on Oct. 3, 2011 at 7:58 am with 58 Comments »
October 3, 2011 7:58 am
Seattle Seahawks head coach Pete Carroll argues a call with official in the second half of Sunday's game against Atlanta. (AP Photo/Elaine Thompson)

Good morning. Here’s what folks are writing and saying about the Seattle Seahawks entertaining, 30-28 loss to Atlanta on Sunday.

We’ll have our live chat today at noon. Hope you can make it.

John McGrath of The News Tribune writes about the Seahawks use of the no-huddle in the second half, which once again energized Seattle’s offense.

McGrath: “Then the Seahawks went to a no-huddle attack that darn near enabled them to pull off one of the most inspiring victories in franchise history. The bad news: They lost a game, 30-28. The good news: They found an identity. The question: What took so long?”

Larry LaRue of The News Tribune tells us why Seattle struggled to stop bruising Atlanta running back Michael Turner in the first half.

Dave Boling of The News Tribune gives us a breakdown of Tarvaris Jackson’s impressive performance.

Seattle’s offensive line showed improvement by not giving up any sacks against Atlanta. Center Max Unger said the Seahawks cannot use youth as an excuse anymore: “We’re kind of at the point of our group where progress is good, but we just have to start winning games,” Unger said. “I mean we’re an NFL offensive line, and no one cares if we’re all younger guys that didn’t really have an offseason. It’s time to start winning games.”

And Leon Washington finally got going, with long kickoff and punt returns that set up two Seattle touchdowns in the second half.

Art Thiel of SportspressNW.com writes the Seahawks got so caught up their second half comeback that they actually thought kicker Steven Hauschka would make a 61-yard field goal.

Jerry Brewer of the Seattle Times says Pete Carroll was wrong for trying a 61-yard field goal.

Clare Farnsworth of Seahawks.com provides and overview of the game.

According to John Boyle of the Everett Herald, linebacker David Hawthorne made it seem like teammate Matt McCoy’s knee injury was season ending.

ESPN’s Mike Sando provides his thoughts on Seattle’s loss here.

Jim Moore, writing for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, says Tarvaris Jackson’s performance against the Falcons’ defense should have them concerned.

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  1. Dukeshire says:

    I believe I’m in the minority here, but I think Carroll made the right decision. A stretch and a prayer? Indeed. But he clearly thought it was within Hauschka’s ability otherwise he would have gone for it on 4th and 8.

    And a 53 (ish) yard field goal is no given either. And that opportunity only comes up after picking up a very difficult 4th and 8. Considering the circumstances, he made the right call, IMO.

  2. SeahawkFan12 says:

    I actually liked the call to kick it. Guarantee that had Pete decided to go for it on 4th and 8 and came up short, the world would bash him for that call, too. Ballsy to go for a 61-yarder, and no doubt that over time, the offense will continue to grow as a unit and have the swagger to convert on 4th down with the game on the line. Another issue is that a rookie wide receiver didn’t convert the first down; my take is that he was trying to make more out of the play, and that effort to stretch the play is okay with me, too. Overall, I am encouraged by the way the team played yesterday, and I’m in agreement that the decision to kick a 61-yarder was sound.

  3. williambryan says:

    I agree with you Duke. If we were going to be really critical, the third down play is where we should point that criticism. Personally I would have liked to see Jackson scramble for some yards, and maybe even a first, on that play. Then you’re looking at maybe a first down, a manageable 4th down, or a shorter kick (but still low percentage, depending on how much yardage Jackson got).

  4. I wouldn’t have faulted Carroll either way. Each option wasn’t ideal. Glad the kick wasn’t for a win in the Super Bowl. (By the way, if you went to the game, how close was Hauschka in the length of his kick? I know he was wide left.)

    The game showed how much potential this team has. Starting next year, we could be seeing a perennial playoff team. We all know the Seahawks aren’t ready to win the Super Bowl yet — the Packers would kill them — so PC needs to continue putting the pieces together. So far, so good.

    The top three WRs — Rice, BMW and Baldwin — were acquired without giving up a single draft pick. That’s pretty amazing.

  5. Audible says:

    Totally disagree with Duke…and in fact, I”m still pissed at Pete..and now Duke. LOL

    Here’s why:

    In NFL History there have been five field goals of 61 yards or more. One by a dude with a club foot 40+ years ago, two others were at Mile High Stadium, which doesn’t count because of the elevation.

    A fourth by Oakland’s first round kicker Janikowski. The other one was by a 7-year veteran at the time of the kick.

    Success rate for 50 + yard fields: 47%
    Success rate for 60+ yard fields? Uh, yeah.

    Success rate for 4th and 8 in the NFL outside the 20: 38%

    The success rate converting on 4th and 8 and then kicking a 53 yard field goal: 18%

    I’ll take a 18% chance of winning any day of the week versus a 61 yard field goal attempt at Sea Level by an undrafted, unknown, rookie kicker.

    The decision to kick was EPIC DUMB on Carroll’s part.

  6. mike98541 says:

    am i the only one that believes Pete Carroll isnt a good fit here?

  7. “I believe I’m in the minority here, but I think Carroll made the right decision. A stretch and a prayer? Indeed. But he clearly thought it was within Hauschka’s ability otherwise he would have gone for it on 4th and 8.”

    I’ve been agreeing with this point of view too – and it’s all about the distance on the 4th down. It’s very easy to picture the pass falling incomplete, or short, or batted down. Going for the FG, while a long shot, gave us one tangible chance to win it.

  8. “If we were going to be really critical, the third down play is where we should point that criticism.”

    Right. If we knew we would try for a long kick, then we should’ve run anything to gain a few yards, given that we had the timeout left.

    Worth mentioning too, of course, using up 2 timeouts on defense in the 2nd half was the real killer.

  9. bayareahawkfan says:

    Totally agree with Duke, et al: that was essentially a pick-‘em between two equally low percentage opportunities.

    The way they came back was encouraging, even though I expect some ugly efforts still this season.

  10. Soggybuc says:

    Audibile, The 20.38% completion percentage is deceiving because it accounts for very polished offenses. If we were the Patriots or Packers it’s an easier call.

    And yes Mike I think you are. you can not judge a coach after 20 games on a rebuilding team.

  11. chuck_easton says:

    Yes Mike your are.

    Pete Carroll will be here for at least two more seasons after 2011. You can start your “Pete must go” campaign in 2013 but this soon into a total rebuild is way too soon.

    Now that I’ve done my 24 hour rule and I can type without the risk to my blood pressure I have to say there where some difinite positives from yesterday’s game.

    The OL is starting to look good. They made TJack look like an NFL QB. Imagine what the QB of the future will look like behind this line next year if they continue to progress.

    We have three WR’s that combined form a strong group (BMW, Rice, Baldwin) and OBO is a great compliment as the 4th WR.

    Tate may be trade bait going into 2012.

    The D is getting better. They aren’t ‘there’ yet, but there is definite improvement over 2008-2009.

    Even in the loss the team never gave up. It would have been easy to mail in the second half when they were already down 24-7 at half and then 27-7 early in the 3rd Qtr. But they kept competing.

  12. Dukeshire says:

    Audible – I’m curious where you got those numbers. Not that I don’t trust them, just curious who provided them.

  13. Audible says:

    Soggybuc,

    That 38% is an average…doesn’t take into account home-field advantage or momentum either, so our chances could have been better than 38%.

  14. bayareahawkfan says:

    Calls for Pete’s head are silly, IMHO. Based on what? Not winning these games? Forest for the trees, as Chuck alluded to: this team isn’t being built to win this year, they’re building toward 2013/2014. Paul Allen knew that when they signed Pete, and the team is still battling, so he won’t be shown the door like Mora any time soon.

    Also, Audible, I can see why you think kicking was a bad call, and that’s fair (even though I disagree that either would have been a “good” call, per se). But Hauschka isn’t a rookie – he was with the Ravens, Falcons, and Lions, and has been around the league since 2008: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Hauschka.

    Not that it made much of a difference, just want to make sure your rant is free of factual errors :).

  15. PDXCOP80 says:

    I like the call to kick it, but agree that the 3rd down call wasn’t great. A QB draw or run play might have gotten the two or three yards needed. Ive rewatched that 3rd down play and something happened on the Oline. Their left DE split out wide and Carp left him to double inside. If Carp chips him TJack has more time to hit Miller on that route. Im not sure why Carp did what he did. Regardless, with a timeout left, we should have run the ball, then kicked it. IMO

  16. Audible says:

    Don’t get me wrong….I love Pete Carroll as our coach…he just made a bone-headed decision that may have cost us a win.

    Of course, it was a team loss…dumb penalties like Rice’s offsides really hurt. Offsides for a WR is one of the dumbest penalties a player can have.

  17. Dukeshire says:

    Audible – Interesting stuff. I am curious about a couple thing. For one, this statement;

    “Let’s say you’re the coach of a team facing a 4th down and 3 from the opponent’s 37. It’s early in the second quarter and the score is tied. Should you call a punt, attempt a FG, or go for it? In reality, coaches have called for the punt 100% of the time in close games early in the second quarter. But is this the best thing to do?”

    100% of the time? That can’t possibly be true unless their sample size reduces the scope of their analysis. Which brings me to my second question. What is this all based on? That is, are these numbers based on past results or are they projections?

    Either case, an interesting breakdown.

  18. Audible says:

    bayareahawkfan,

    Thanks for the correction…but it doesn’t change my opinion and may bolster my argument. He’s been dumped by several teams and was unemployed just a few weeks ago…so he’s not exactly a freak kicker like Janikowski.

    Carroll could have sprinkled fairy dust on the ball, and it still wasn’t going to fly 61 yards at Sea Level.

  19. Audible says:

    In my mind it was the difference between something like an 18% chance of winning versus maybe what 1%, if that?

  20. Dukeshire says:

    Possibly. Of course he’d still have to make a 50+ yarder had they picked up they picked up the 1st. But those 10(ish) yards may have made all the difference. We’ll never know…

  21. WISHawkFan says:

    As an outsider (Seahawks fan born and raised in WI), I have to say that I’m encouraged with what I saw yesterday. This team is not perfect, and I don’t expect them to be yet. Last year was like patching up a hole in a boat to get one extra trip out of it. This year is where the true rebuilding starts. Living in WI allowed me to watch the Thompson and McCarthy era. As most of you know, Schneider came from GB and has a similar GM style to Thompson, although he’s more active in free agency. Both want to build young, talented teams through the draft. After 2 years, fans here wanted Thompson out the door for “running the team into the ground”. Now, they’re a powerhouse NFC team and defending Super Bowl Champions. Not saying that I’m ready to annoint the Seahawks champs yet, but I wanted to make a few observations:

    The calls for Pete Carroll to be shown the door are ridiculous. I agree that he’ll have 4-5 years to build this team. The talent level is higher now than it was when he inherited the team. The last 2 drafts are looking very strong, especially compared to the few previous drafts, and Schneider really has an eye for finding gems in the later rounds and FA, which is where good GMs make their mark. The team believes in Carroll because he shows faith in them. Would the Jim Mora Jr. team have fought back like they did yesterday. Uh, no. The O-line is starting to gel. We almost won this game against a good Falcons team without causing any turnnovers and giving the ball away twice ourselves. Yes, we need more consistent pressure and turnovers. Still, a lot of good things to take away from yesterday.

  22. HawksKD says:

    I really like Pete and enjoy what he has done here. But I still stand by what I’m saying sorry to beat a dead horse.

    A 61 yard field goal was bad decision. Why does everyone think this is a normal everyday field goal? What league are you watching? There have been 8 people who have ever kicked more than a 60 yard field goal in NFL

    “he kicked a 65 yarder in warm ups” – you can kick a low angle line drive when there is not a line of 11 pissed off 300 pound men trying to stop you. You can boot a line drive at least 7 more yards if you take a low angle. That puts his MAX at MAYBE 58 with no pressure and a serene setting.

    “Better than a chance at 4-8″
    I’ll say again Tavaris was having a career day. The best stat 7 different receivers with at least 3 catches. Petes been fighting the NFL world analysts and fans alike about why he believes in Tavaris. If you believe in him give him the ball on his best day ever at QB and let the man win the game. Show him you trust him, show the fans that you trust him. He had 13 seconds to convince us that he fully believed in Jackson and we should too.
    The iron doesn’t get any hotter than that…..

  23. Dukeshire says:

    I don’t know of anyone here who believes this was a normal everyday field goal.

  24. chuck_easton said: “We have three WR’s that combined form a strong group (BMW, Rice, Baldwin) and OBO is a great compliment as the 4th WR.”

    Ain’t that the truth! This is the best set of wideouts we’ve had since 2005 (Jackson, Jurevicious, Engram, plus Hackett). Great job by PC and JS putting these guys together.

    Rice really opens up the possibilities for this offense. We haven’t had this in years. And the TJack haters should remember that part of recruiting Rice to Seattle was signing TJack first and using him to recruit Rice.

  25. HawksKD says:

    Sorry Duke the last thread had people seemed to think Hauschka was the next coming of janikowski and that he had a legit shot to make the goal…

    To answer Someone else who asked –

    The kick was wide left and WELL short. If Hauschka had any business whatsoever attempting that field goal you would have seen a give and compensation with either accuracy or power. Hauschka had neither. I’m not getting down on Hauschka either. There are not many kickers who can make that kick – MAYBE 5 out of 32 kickers I would trust to attempt that…more likely 3……… That’s a very small
    Percentage

  26. pabuwal says:

    Hauschka came into the NFL in 2008 with the Ravens as a kickoff specialist and the long FG guy when they had Matt Stover. Despite this, he didn’t have very many touchbacks. He got the full time job in 2009 and missed his only game winning attempt (44 yarder at Minnesota). He was released during the year after missing an extra point. If he was really kicking into the wind, then clearly it was a bad decision.

    Yesterday as he lined up for the FG, I figured there was no way he would make it, but I thought back to the fourth game of 2005 in Washington when Josh Brown lined up for his first career game winning attempt. I also figured he wasn’t going to make it because it was his first career attempt, but in both cases I was pleased because the team fought back to just to have a shot to win the game. In both cases it seemed highly unlikely in the 3rd quarter that the Seahawks would even be in position to win the game.

    In both cases, it was like a light came on. The 2005 team was a veteran team with future hall of famers, an all decade RB and a QB who had a career year. They also had a favorable schedule coming up and pulled out some lucky victories down the stretch.

    I doubt this team has all those ingredients, but if a light really did come on, there could be some great parallels to enjoy later this year. I haven’t been so pleased to lose a game like that since that Redskins game.

  27. Dukeshire says:

    pabuwal – Is that really you? lol. Wow. Silver lining guy today. I love it.

  28. pabuwal says:

    I’d definitely feel more comfortable with a RB who can produce and a CB who didn’t give away free 3rd down conversions to teams with the higher end QBs, 2 good WRs and good running games. It’s impossible to provide Browner with consistent help in those situations and a good QB will take advantage every time.

    How bad is Walter Thurmond he can’t start over Browner?

  29. Man I feel like I’m being the negative Nancy today.

    Well might as well continue.
    There was A LOT of good things that happened yesterday I’ll let you guys take care of that.

    Did anyone notice the our rush yards going into halftime?

    5…………. 5 whole yards…………. Ouch

  30. Carroll should have used his final timeout with 2:30 left in the game. He needs to learn how to use timeouts when the team is down.

  31. I think there’s a little too much analysis of the final FG attempt. There wasn’t much of a choice. A low-percentage 61 yard FG or a lower-percentage hail Mary.

    Two things made the final drive fail. First was Rice’s false start penalty at the 46 yard line, pushing them back from 10 to 20 yards out of FG range. The other was a poor pass protection scheme on the final third down pass, when they let the edge rusher come at Tjack untouched. That sealed the loss.

    But I think Carroll out-coached Mike Smith in the second half, while having far less talent on the field. That’s the biggest story of the game.

  32. Stevie we didn’t need a hail Mary.. We needed 8 yards.

    Jackson was averaging 13 yards a completion and 65% accurate – more so 75%-80% on target.

    Just sayin….

  33. “But I think Carroll out-coached Mike Smith in the second half, while having far less talent on the field. That’s the biggest story of the game.”

    O-line really progressed – 0 sacks of TJ yesterday – that’s a big deal for this team.

    And, we figured out a way (and I give Carroll plenty of credit here) to slow down a very talented Atlanta offense in the 2nd half. 6 points on two long field goals for a team that has Ryan, Roddy White, Julio Jones, Turner, Gonzalez on offense? That’s some skilled halftime adjusting.

  34. ohiohawkfan says:

    Enough with the FG decision. As a few have already pointed out, this was the best case scenario for a rebuilding year where draft position will help land a franchise QB. Be competitive, but take the loss and grow from it. I saw this team take steps forward and grow in this game. I for one could care less about the FG decision. Just like anything else, make it and PC’s a hero, miss it and PC gets slammed. That is why these coach’s make the big bucks. All and all, I’m happy with the play and outcome.

  35. I’m just ecstatic that the team fought hard and well enough that there even WAS a “game on the line” coaching decision in this game that is generating so much passionate discussion.

    Few saw that coming, especially after the first half. I’m very happy with the progress.

  36. Going back to that 2005 Redskins game, Holmgren also did something similar to Carroll. He ran down nearly 50 seconds without even an attempt to throw the ball to move towards a closer FG. Brown missed the 47 yard FG and everyone was livid on this blog the next day about both Holmgren and his apparent lack of trust in Hasselbeck.

  37. Dukeshire says:

    pab – … and his lack of clock management. That’s what I remember most about that.

  38. Who’s Holmgren?

  39. Too early to call for Pete Carroll’s job. Remember, Holmgren went to the playoffs in 99, his first year, with Dennis Erickson’s players, then totally dismantled the team, went 6-10, got his GM title stripped in 2002, went to the Super Bowl at the end of the 2005 season. There were three lousy seasons in there, as his o-line & QB grew up. Anybody calling for Pete’s job at this time is ridiculous.

  40. Those who say PC made the right decision to go for the FG on 4th down from the 43 yard line are right, and those who say PC should have gone for the conversion first and then the FG are also right: 38% = 38%. One part of the usual discussion about long FGs can be dismissed = where the opponents start if the FG is missed.

    From Advanced NFL Stats:
    Fourth Down Study, Part 2: Field Goal Percentage by Field Position
    http://www.advancednflstats.com/2009/09/4th-down-study-part-2.html
    If you extend the curve to where the LOS is at the 43, the (probable) Percentage Made should read about 38%. Trouble is, we don’t know if the curve continues or whether it drops off precipitously. Note that the last plotted point for a FG from a LOS at the 38 is 40%, and that the graph ends at the 40-yd LOS. 60+ yd attempts are rare, usually occuring at the end of a half.

    Fourth Down Study, Part 3: Going For It: Conversion % by Distance To Go
    http://www.advancednflstats.com/2009/09/4th-down-study-part-3.html
    The (probable) Conversion % of 4th and 8 is about 38%, like Audible said.
    If they had made the conversion, were at the ATL 35, and hadn’t run outta time, the (probable) FG % would then be about 58%.

  41. “Those who say PC made the right decision to go for the FG on 4th down from the 43 yard line are right”….How do you figure? C’mon, man…take a side. You can’t have it both ways.

  42. Dukeshire says:

    Thanks for passing along. Very sobering.

  43. I finally got the chance to review the whole game tape. It was crazy in the stadium during those final plays, but reviewing it again, I think its evident the right call would have been a pass play up the middle of the field with the receiver immediately going down and calling TO to insure officials stopped the clock. With 16 secs, they might have pulled it off and got a makeable FG. A sideline pass would have been too low-percentage at that point, as was the field goal.

    I can believe Carroll was concerned about time running out before the clock stopped, but I wonder if Carroll forgot he had a TO available? I doubt we’ll ever know.

  44. HawksKD says:

    There was such a buzz we had some momentum going.. You had that old feeling back where “yeah, we can actually do this”. Then the field goal team came out and words can’t describe how deflating it was. I even said to everyone around me “Does he actually think he can make that?”. I literally turned around on his approach to the ball slammed my hands down has he kicked…turned back around just to see how far off he was……..it wasn’t pretty…

    But hey it was a great game to be at and it was good to have that feeling back that I was talking about…….

  45. Audible says:

    SandpointHawk,

    I was expecting to read about Toff using steroids prescribed by team doctors, etc….Instead, that writer blamed Joe’s beat up body from playing in the NFL for him being overweight, thus leading to heart disease. That’s a pretty big stretch.

    He then went on to point out the high percentage of former NFL offensive lineman with heart disease….

    However, I would bet if you compared the over 300 pound population as a whole you’d find camparable statistics to former NFL linemen.

  46. Dukeshire says:

    Perhaps. Although the psychological toll not being able to live pain free and the depression that can bring (which is a very real thing) cannot be overstated. For my part, it’s always a reality check to read about former players whose lives and bodies and forever crippled playing this amazing game we love.

  47. SandpointHawk says:

    I knew Toff and for the record Toff never used steroids, he was a rock. He loved the game. Bodies give out. He was beat to hell and in chronic pain. When you walk the walk Audible come on back and we will talk…

  48. Now that we have begun to progress in the right direction, I wonder if we can ever start scoring some points early so we aren’t going against “prevent” defenses to gain our yards.

  49. LUVXMAS says:

    OK, he made the right or the wrong decision on the FG. It should not have mattered. What about all the wrong decisions in the first half? I know the Offensive Coach had surgery this week and was probably still in the hospital but can’t anyone else make changes standing up? Two weeks in a row a different team came out of the locker room after halftime. They better sprinkle that magic dust in the beginning from now on. I kept checking faces to make sure we didn’t have another team to switch uniforms at the half – the difference was unreal. That second half team can compete but if they don’t show up until 2:30 PT, what chance do we have playing next week in ET?
    And, did anyone else watching on TV notice all the official goofs the announcers pointed out? The large majority not helping us.

  50. Audible says:

    SandpointHawk,

    Wasn’t putting down Toffelmire and didn’t accuse him of using steroids…the dude was a warrior…just pointing out the article was a piece of poorly written fluff….s*#* reporting like you might expect from a Spokane news source or anywhere in Eastern WA or Northern Idaho, for that matter.

    Walk the walk? Really? I doubt neither of us can make that claim.

  51. SandpointHawk says:

    No I probably can’t make that claim beyond a State High School Championship where I scored twice. Injury stopped that dream. I did cover professional football and baseball (if you can label the Angles of the 80’s professional) for 15 years for UPI and The LA Times if that counts for anything. Ended by covering the LA music scene for the Times before moving to Northern Idaho. Sando started at the Spokesman by the way, got some Pulitzer Prizes in their closet also. But whatever. Oh and the he first time I was in a professional football locker room I was 10 years old…..So you are right I can’t walk that walk either…..

  52. confucious says:

    Wow Audible! Easy on the Eastern Washington folks. If you got over here once in awhile you might find that your stress level lowers a bit. Chill!

  53. Audible says:

    I grew up in and around Spokane and North Idaho…Miss the fishing and occasional thunderstorms, but Seattle is a much more interesting place to live.

  54. Audible says:

    Big deal!

    I delivered newspapers for the Spokesman Review, almost got Largent’s autograph one time in Cheney, and scored 100 points against the LA Raiders playing Elways’ Tecmo Bowl.

  55. ljarllrajl says:

    I have no problem with the FG try. I have a bigger problem with Rice’s false start penalty and the down wasted to spike the ball that eventually left us 4th down with 13 seconds and a time out.

    It only takes 1 second on the clock to kick a FG, don’t waste a down with a spike. That’s just sloppy, lazy two minute offense.

  56. seahawkfan97 says:

    we suck….go titans!!!!!!

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