Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Hawks awful, but youth adds hope

Post by Eric Williams on Sep. 20, 2011 at 6:02 am with 27 Comments »
September 20, 2011 6:02 am
Seattle Seahawks offensive tackle Russell Okung sets up to block against Pittsburgh on Sunday. (AP Photo/Don Wright)

Dave Boling of The News Tribune provides some commentary on the Seattle struggles in the first two games of the year, including this note – Sixteen of the franchise’s 36 seasons have started off 0-2. The Seahawks have never advanced to the playoffs in a season after opening with back-to-back losses.

Boling says there’s no way around it – the Seahawks are awful. But they’re young-awful, which gives fans hope for the future.

Boling: “Considering they are one of the youngest teams in the league, the promise of improvement at least makes it easier to swallow bad performance. That also sets the 2011 edition apart from many monotonously awful predecessors.”

Here’s my story on offensive guard Robert Gallery, the latest Seahawks to catch the injury bug. Gallery will be out 4 to 6 weeks because he needs groin surgery. The Seahawks have cycled through 13 left guard since Steve Hutchinson left the team in 2006. Also, offensive tackle Russell Okung has been called for five penalties in two games. He only had three in 10 games during his rookie season.

Clare Farnsworth of Seahawks.com notes the roster churn has continued at the VMAC. After making 284 moves last year, Pete Carroll and John Schneider have made 150 roster transactions since the opening of training camp.

Scott Johnson of the Everett Herald continues his look back of former Seahawk players’ greatest moments on the field with a profile on quarterback David Krieg.

Christian Caple of Seattlepi.com provides some unvarnished comments from KJR’s Hugh Millen on Seattle’s performance the first two games, including this on the offensive line: “Don’t tell me we have any offensive tackles. All we have is four offensive guards and a center. We have no tackles, because you’re not a tackle in the NFL until you can block an end.”

Millen also said he’s seen enough of offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell.

Danny O’Neil of the Seattle Times takes a look at what we’ve learned from the Pittsburgh game.

Pete Prisco of CBS Sports gives the Seahawks a D grade for their performance against Pittsburgh.

Jim Moore of ESPN 710 Seattle says the Seahawks will not win until they host Cincinnati on Oct. 30.

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Leave a comment Comments → 27
  1. I think they’re getting excessive with this roster churning. I understand he’s looking for a nasty gem of a player like Tom Brady, but those players don’t come when you’re looking for them, it has to just happen.

  2. confucious says:

    Boling hits it on the head with “young-awful” statement. The contrast of pittsburgh’s experience level compared to ours was striking. We are a junior varsity caliber team at this point. Thankfully the nfc west is a jv division… For now.

  3. Kingpear says:

    I sort of agree with Christian Caple, but not totally. I think Okung will be fine at tackle, and has held his own. Gallery is done (I was hoping he would help solidify the line, but his footwork is awful for a vet), Unger is passable, Moffitt is young, and Carpenter was a reach (and should be left guard this year).

    Carp may become a solid RT, but he is in need of help ATM. Adding a TE to that side only limits route runners, so it is not the answer.

    I am optomistic, and hope that a year of frustration under their belt does not ruin them. With the exception of Browner, the defense is playing well, but they cannot be out on the field so long.

    As fans, I think we can accept a 4-12 or so season. Bring on Luck, Landry Jones or some other yound gun. In 2 years I think this can be turned around.

  4. Dukeshire says:

    For me, it’s not simply getting beat. it’s the penalties. You simply can’t have them. And especially a youg team that is being shaped to play a certain way. They cannot continue to commit penalties and give teams free yards and new series’ of downs and hope to develop and progress.

  5. Palerydr says:

    Nice piece on Gallery Eric I read into your comments about his contract that they can cut him with no cap penalty for next year. Personally I would lave that. Carpenter wasn’t a reach so you need to get past that. He’s a rookie OL and he’s gonna take some time to get it. I wouldn’t be surprised if they did draft another right tackle next year or signed 1 in FA moving Carpenter to LG. I personally would not look at that as a failure. I am disappointed in the Defense but in their defense they can’t play well if they are on the field 35 plus mns a game. They need time on the sidelines to get a blow as well as study the photo’s of what the other team is doing to make the adjustments. I’m still in Browners corner I want him to succeed as it’s in the best interests of the team. I’m looking forward to his first pick of what I believe will be many in his career

  6. aldenroche says:

    Carpenter, Browner and Moffitt need time to learn how to be pros.
    It doesn’t just happen. They need game experience.

  7. None of these guy’s beat-out anybody in training camp to EARN a starting job!

  8. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I hear you aldenroche. But what if Carpenter, Browner and Moffitt don’t learn how to be pros? Locklear and spencer were very promising at one time and see how that turned out.
    If this team really wanted to win now then they would have signed a couple of proven O-lineman in free agency, signed Hasselbeck, and drafted a d-lineman with the first pick!( That had one of the deepest d-line talent in recent memory). Then continue to build with a combination of proven veterans and rookies and this division would be ours now and into the future.
    If they are just going to tank this year for Luck,( which appears more and more that they are), then this franchise could be in deep trouble for sometime because the odds of getting him ,( think Colts,Browns), are low!

    Change is good and I like several of the changes that Carroll has made in his first two years, however if they continue to make so many roster changes like they have last year and this year then Carrolls legacy here will be more like a circus, and he would then be appropriately called Pete Carousel.

  9. Palerydr says:

    Was outta town so just watched the Game on DVR 1st half 2 nice gaol line stands. Obvious they went after Browner. Offense looked ok in second drive limited in the first. The penalty killed second drive. Obamanu didn’t help by dropping the pass it was high but on target. Jackson doesn’t look off his primary very well. Curry dropped a pick six. Gallery looks bad Carpenter actually holding at the point of attack. run game looks BAD overall though. getting no push off the ball. Miller looks to be open a lot after chipping. Thomas keeps showing up all over the field man is he fast. Chancellor looks good as well. Just watched Browner come up but doesn’t jam and Wallace gets a 17 yd gainer. Overall very little pressure from the D on the QB. I wish they would just cripple Ward but that’s just me being a hater. Spoke too soon Kam just dropped a pick. Final thoughts Bad run blocking, too many play action, Defense playing 5-7 yds off receivers on 3rd and short passes giving up easy catches. penalties and TOP killed them.

  10. Georgia, only time will tell, but Locklear and Spencer in their rookie years didn’t accomplish anything close to what Carp, Moffitt, and Browner have already accomplished.

    Sean Locklear had one whole season backing-up (plus two off-seasons of practice) before he was ever asked to start. The same was true of Chris Spencer. Their first starts were in their second seasons as pros, and even then they still had a lot to learn.

    I think we need to remember how early these guys are being thrown into the fire. Even worse this year because of the lockout. How much Carpenter and Moffitt have already improved in only two games is really pretty inspiring. They are doing better than anyone should reasonably expect.

  11. This rebuild may seem like too much turnover to some people, but really, which player that was cut would you put back on this roster in favor of someone we have now?

    Hasselbeck? Yes, obviously. But for 3 yrs/$21Million?

    Cory Redding?

    The only other guy I can think of who I wish we didn’t cut is Rob Sims, starting at LG now for Detroit. We could use him now.

    Who else would you want back?

  12. Dukeshire says:

    Stevo – I think that’s an important distinction as well. A lot is being asked of these players right now with abbreviated preparation. Let’s see where they are performing in November or late October at least, before we begin to judge them too harshly.

  13. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Stevos- Nothing I would like better than to see Carp and Moffitt progress and become very good.
    Just because a player is handed a starting position doesn’t mean that they have accomplished anything,(imo), unless you mean that playing poorly is an accomplishment?
    Holmgren rarley would start a rookie on offense, so how could Locklear or Spencer have a chance to show what they had early on?
    I do remember Holmgren saying how Spencer was one of the best centers to come out of College in years and that he would be like Hutch in that you could just plug him the line for ten years. So Spencer certainly accomplished more at the College level.

  14. AaronCurryIsBUST says:

    “I do remember Holmgren saying how Spencer was one of the best centers to come out of College in years and that he would be like Hutch in that you could just plug him the line for ten years. So Spencer certainly accomplished more at the College level.”

    That’s simply wrong. Spencer literally started only 1 season in college, that alone made him entirely unworthy of a 1st round pick. He himself admitted he didn’t expect to be drafted there. I also saw him play in college and frankly I thought he sucked. No rapport with Eli Manning at all, and same idiotic mistakes he made in the pros. What a terrible player, I’m so glad we let his weak ass walk.

  15. I would like to find statistics for comPete’s Jets, Patriots, USC, and Seahawks teams with respect to penalties and where teams that he’s coached have ranked.

    I am willing to be that his teams are, on average, not good when it comes to being penalized. I think he won at USC with superior talent, but he’s not going to be so overly more talented in the NFL.

    When you have teams penalized too much over the course of a few decades, then that’s something you need to look at yourself and rethink. He needs to improve on it.

    Again, I don’t know this for sure, but if I were a betting man, I’d say that his Jets, Pats, and ‘Hawks teams suck with respect to too many penalties.

    And, yes, this is a huge criticism I have of him. Probably the biggest (besides the QB thing).

    Does anyone know where you could find something like this out?

  16. Dukeshire says:

    That’s an interesting theory and one I have a hard time not believing. I’m sure klm can / will come up with a series of numbers that may or may not have any relevance to you theory. (Jk klm…)

  17. timcapone says:

    If you are a fan of the Holmgren era, then remember in his second year the team was only 6-10 and looked even worse, but it was a part of the rebuilding that did get them to the SB eventually. Of course it was downhill after thatl

    And not that there is any hope of winning 6 this year… but the team is young so there is a slim glimmer of hope that in 3 or 4 years, they might have it together… but they have to get a quality QB by next year to have a shot… TJ or CW are not the answer.

  18. BobbyK, I’m wondering what you would have Carroll change?

    The penalties hurt last Sunday, no doubt. Some mistakes by young players. But a bunch of calls were because Pitts got the calls at home.

    These were the penalties:
    Browner, Defensive Pass Interference, 39 yards
    Sherman, Face Mask (15 Yards), offsetting,
    Gallery, Offensive Holding,
    Okung, False Start,
    Brock, Roughing the Passer,
    Clemons, Defensive Offside, offsetting.

    Okung was playing in his 12th game, on the road, and had a false start, which every LT does in our stadium every home game.

    Gallery was playing with an injured groin and held while run blocking, which is what linemen are supposed to do, they’re just not supposed to get caught.

    Brock was tripped while rushing the passer and shouldn’t have been called for anything.

    Browner was being aggressive in coverage, and barely laid his hand on the WR.

    Sherman was being overly-aggressive on a special teams tackle. Probably because our Teams got torched by SF a week before.

    The Sherman face mask and the Clemons offsides are the only penalties that were really stupid. The Brock and Browner penalties were not from dirty play or stupid play, just from guys being aggressive. I think that’s how Carroll coaches them to play. But would you really want him coaching our D and ST to be less aggressive?

  19. Just looking at the Seahawks penalties over the last few HCs:
    ’08 Holmgren, 16 reg season games
    Defense: 36-6
    Special Teams: 9-1
    Offense: 43-3
    OL players initials (Walter Jones = WJ), number of snaps played, number of penalties called – and those declined or offsetting:
    FW 833 5-1
    RW 741 4-0
    WJ 716 0-0
    CS 650 0-0
    SL 605 2-0
    MW 567 7-0 (Wahle)
    SV 336 1-0
    MW 262 5-1
    KW 132 2-0
    RS 72 1-0
    NG 14 2-1

    ’09 Mora, 16 reg season games
    Defense: 39-3
    Special Teams: 16-1
    Offense: 48-8
    OL:
    MU 1103 6-1
    RW 1103 7-0
    RS 898 2-1
    CS 869 4-0
    SL 637 5-0
    SV 226 0-0
    BF 212 3-0
    DM 143 1-0
    MW 120 2-1
    KW 113 2-1
    MG 93 0-0

    ’10 Carroll, 16 reg season games
    Defense: 33-3
    Special Teams: 24-1
    Offense: 50-3
    OL:
    CS 1024 5-0
    SL 997 7-1
    SA 783 7-0
    RO 556 3-0
    TP 519 3-0
    MG 456 1-0
    BH 387 3-0
    MU 51 1-1

    ’11 Carroll, thru 2 reg season games
    Defense: 7-1
    Special Teams: 8-3
    Offense: 9-2
    OL:
    JM 122 0-0
    JC 122 0-0
    MU 122 0-0
    RO 122 5-2
    BG 71 1-0
    RG 51 1-0
    TP 3 0-0

    The obvious penalties that come to mind today are Okung’s. He currently leads the NFL in OLer penalties with 5 (but 2 of those were declined or offsetting). ATL’s C Joe Hawley has 3 penalties, and DEN’s RG Chris Kuper has 3 (in one game). Last season MIN’s RT Phil Loadholt racked up the most penalties of any OLer with 14. Alex Barron had that many at LT for STL in ’09.

    At the end of the year they used to come out with the least penalized and most penalized teams, with Holmgren’s team often being the least penalized. They were often in the mid-upper 80s in total penalties but what was special was that the left side of Holmgren’s OL had 0 penalties and also allowed 0 sacks, 0 hits and 0 pressures. I don’t think that’s that big a concern for Cable (penalties). But Okung’s on pace for 40 penalties by himself. That’s gotta change.

  20. stevos – this isn’t a new revelation that I have had and had nothing to do with Pittsburgh supposedly getting all the calls at home in this 1 week sample size. I’ve thought this for quite some time.

    How do I know how he’s supposed to fix the penalty thing?

    All I know is that if I were an NFL head coach that had a team with too many penalties season after season… I’d look at what the historically good head coaches do with respect to this and incorporate as much of this stuff as possible. Holmgren usually had good teams with respect to not being penalized, on average, from his time in Green Bay and Seattle. Well, he’s did something right. What was it? I don’t know. But I’d like comPete to try to figure it out since that’s what he’s paid to do if history proves that he’s not great with his teams and penalties. Again, I don’t know for sure, but if I were a betting man, I know where I’d put my money.

  21. Palerydr says:

    You ever see Holmgrens face when a player had to come back to the sideline after committing a penalty?

  22. “Looks that Kill.”

  23. I bet Mr. Happy could fit in one of Holmgren’s chins.

  24. Bobby, you don’t think the extra penalties are due to the younger age of this roster?

    The other thing to consider is the Carroll wants his D to be a bit more aggressive than Holmy ever allowed them to be. Holmgren and his DCs liked to play it safe a little bit. Carroll, by bringing in DBs like Chancellor and Browner, is showing he likes a D ready to hit people. This is going to cause a lot more penalties for us with the new NFL rules.

    I guess what I’m saying is that the team needed to get younger and they needed to become more aggressive. Those two things are going to add up to more penalties for the time being, so I guess that’s okay with me.

  25. I can see Okung & Moffit progressing to be more than serviceable at some point soon, but Carp showed us a lot when he came in way out of shape, no?

  26. oscar_contender says:

    Curry is only 25 and shows flashes of play making that can change the game. Give Norton Jr. a couple years with him, see if he improves, great re sign with Curry for the Dynamic Duo. Love how young our O line is and our D is also very young. This year is going to be long and if you are faithful, might surprise you. Don’t give up in this division, we haven’t even had a home game yet, and the 12th man usually wins half the games. Remember the Rams vs. Seahawks with the Golden Boy vs. Clipboard Jesus? Our D was amazing, they “play” better at home, watch our D give us a shot at the playoffs, then it’s a home game with the 12th man for Beastquake 2.0… or we put everyone on IR and draft Luck, all or nothing with something in return. Win or win the lottery? This next game is going to be season changing…Our D will win the game and we will be talking playoffs or 0-3 and in the lead for Andrew Luck.

  27. Southendzone says:

    Read the Boling article, agree with most of it but he inaccurately calls us worst in the NFL in scoring. We at least are 7 pts better than the KC chiefs so give us a little bit of a break there.

    Plus we haven’t had a home game. It’s gonna be a tough season, I hope they play well this Sunday though because I think the boo-birds are going to have a REALLY short fuse.

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