Seahawks Insider

Carroll: “I’ve got to help more.”

Post by Eric Williams on Sep. 18, 2011 at 2:48 pm with 103 Comments »
September 18, 2011 2:49 pm

Looking for someone to blame for Seattle laying a goose egg in a 24-0 humbling at Pittsburgh?

Seattle head coach Pete Carroll says to point the finger at him.

“I’ve got to help more,” Carroll said about his team’s struggles on offense. “I’ve told the players in the locker room I’m not helping them enough. And I’ve got to do a better job of finding ways to make it more available for us to move the football, and to make our plays – like on third down today. We had a hard time today.”

Carroll again pointed to the fact that Seattle’s offense is struggling because of all the new bodies they added on that side of the ball this season, and little time to build a chemistry.

“Knowing how new we were, and how few opportunities we had to bring them along, it’s going to take a little while. And that’s unfortunate, and it’s very difficult to have to live through it. But we know what’s going to happen at the other end, and we’re going to stay the course because we know that.”

“We’ve got a lot of changes we have to make obviously – we didn’t score a point, period,” Seattle quarterback Tarvaris Jackson said. “That’s embarrassing. We can’t be a good football team and go in and play like that.”

Seattle had better pass protection today, but still allowed five sacks.

“We protected better today,” Carroll said. “It may not have looked like it, but we protected better today against a very aggressive front. So we made some progress there, but we didn’t run the ball worth a darn today. And we need to.”

But the primary issue with Seattle’s offense is the team’s inability to run the ball. The Seahawks finished with 31 yards on the ground, averaging just 2.4 yards a carry.

“We’ve need to get our running game going,” Jackson said. “I think if we get our running game going, that will help with those explosive plays. We can play action those guys and try and get them up, and then try and go over top of them.

“But they’re not going to respect the play action if we’re not running the ball well. So we’ve got to do a better job of that.”

Added Marshawn Lynch, who finished with 11 yards on six carries: “Something that will help us out a lot is execution, executing on a lot of small things that I feel we’re not capitalizing on, to put ourselves in better positions to make ourselves able to go and hit that home run play we’ve been looking for.”

Carroll said he never considered lifting Tarvaris Jackson for Charlie Whitehurst late in the game with his team struggling. He does not believe that Jackson is the problem, and will remain with him as the team’s starter moving forward for the foreseeable future.

“It had nothing to do with the quarterback spot,” Carroll said about Seattle’s struggles offensively. “I don’t feel like that at all. We’ll look at everything, but I don’t feel like that at all.”

Seahawks cornerback Brandon Browner was targeted repeatedly by Pittsburgh offensively and struggled in coverage. He was called for pass interference on a deep ball to Mike Wallace on the Steelers’ first drive of the game that resulted in first-and-goal on the one for Pittsburgh, but Seattle’s defense held tough and forced them to turn it over on downs.

Browner also gave up 2-yard touchdown to Wallace on a fade route in the third quarter.

At 6-foot-4, 220 pounds, Browner seemed to struggle keeping up with Pittsburgh’s smaller receivers.

“I’ve got to watch film and see how it looks from that perspective,” Browner said. “And then I’ll have a better answer for you then. But everything is so new right now. I know it was a tough one, I know that much.”

Carroll clarified Sidney Rice’s injury after a report by Jay Glazer of Fox Sports surfaced stating that Rice has a torn labrum.

Carroll confirmed that Rice does have a torn labrum, but said the injury is not like tight end John Carlson’s shoulder. Carlson needed surgery to repair his torn labrum during training camp and was placed on the season-ending, injured reserve list.

Rice practiced all last week and according to Carroll, the strength in his shoulder is improving, which should give him an opportunity to play next week.

However, there’s no guarantee Rice won’t injure the shoulder worse if he plays against Arizona on Sunday.

“We just need to see if he continues to respond,” Carroll said. “He’s got a sore shoulder now, and we’ve got to make sure he’s right before he comes back.

“He’s got some damage in his shoulder. We’re trying to figure out how he can come back. … The labrum issues are all different. He’s responding well. We need to see if he’s ready to go.

“This will be a big week for us to test him. He was about 80 percent last week I would think. If you watch practice you would think he could play. We didn’t hit him and knock him around, so we won’t know until we get more active with him in practice. We’ll know more this week.”

Some tidbits

* Seattle’s longest play from scrimmage was a 17-yard pass to Eddie Williams, who joined the team five days ago.

* Seattle’s offense only crossed midfield twice. The Seahawks punted eight times and four 3-and-outs.

* For a second straight game Seattle’s defense did not force a turnover. Linebacker Aaron Curry dropped an interception that would have thwarted a touchdown drive for Pittsburgh in the first half.

* Mike Williams finished with one catch for nine yards and was only targeted three times. He has to have more of an impact on the game than that.

* The Seahawks finished 2 of 12 on third down, while Pittsburgh finished 8 of 15 on third down.

* Carroll said the team is relatively healthy, with no injuries of note to report

Game coverage
Leave a comment Comments → 103
  1. AaronCurryIsBUST says:

    Carroll if you really want to help and aren’t spewing feces out of your mouth, bench that loser you’re wasting our time with at QB and play Whitehurst.

  2. Mr. Happy – You’re in year #2. Stay the course with getting younger and letting those kids play on the offensive line. All will be forgotten next year when we win the division with Andrew Luck and the offensive line having had come into their own a little bit, thanks to them being forced to take their lumps this year.

  3. Comp(l)ete BS! Carroll new before he sent Bates and Hasselbeck packing there would be a shortened off season. The o’line had performed better the last few games and actualy won a playoff game. What was needed were some WR’s like Kenny Britt and Washington. An NFL caliber corner back available in FA and a few tweaks that were done. Not a comp(l)ete dismantle. But what do I know. The team is in so much better shape now that Pete C has blown er up.
    Replace Browner at this point and the defense looks formidable should the offense scores some points and keep them in games. Wishfull thinking, eh.
    Whitehurst couldn’t be as bad as Jackson. Why not give him a shot.

  4. thursday says:

    ugh, it IS the quarterback though. was he not watching the same game? i don’t see how anyone can say that tjack played his position well. in fact, he really hasn’t since he’s been with the team.

  5. orbeavhawk says:


  6. williambryan says:

    I can’t believe how bad Jackson has been. I’m not one for hyperbole and jumping to conclusions but Jackson has no business starting at QB in the nfl. He has no balls (for lack of better words). There is no excuse for throwing the ball to BMW only three times. Even if he is covered he is open because of his size and hands, for the love of god throw him the ball! There were many times Jackson had time to throw downfield and either ran into a sack, or checked it down. It looks like he is afraid to throw because he is afraid to throw a pick. I don’t care about the Carroll’s emphasis on ball control, that’s a losing mentality. You have to take some chances. I think Jackson should get one more start out of “fairness” to him and the teams crazy plans. If he can’t do anything at home against Arizona then it’s time to abort this experiment and give Charlie a chance. He may throw some INT’s but he will throw some TD’s too.

  7. Granted our O-line will be our bane throughout the season Tavaris seems to struggle at simply reading the pocket around him. He has no clue when things are stable and he has
    Nonclue when things are breaking down….. That’s not something you coach that is natural born ability. Granted it is something that can diminish with poor offensive line play there really is no answer for improvement. You either have it or you don’t.

    I’ve said time and time again that his height is a true disadvantage. When you can’t count on your line to open up passing lanes you have to throw over them. Tavaris has no way of neutralizing a blitz if he can’t create the opportunity to pass without a lane or ability to throw over. He can read where it’s coming from but can’t do anything about it.

    Our offense is horrendous.

  8. boucherm says:

    Worst offense in football.
    I think Jackson is a big part of the problem, but do feel he should get a home game start before being given up on.
    The rationale for starting him was that he knew the offense and we would be in better psoition for a fast start. That reasoning is clearly over with.
    The only thing for me is I HATE all the undue love that Charlie Whitehurst gets. People talk about him like starting him is the solution to the team’s problems, which to me is just ridiculous. We got trade-raped for him last year, and then I had to hear the a-holes that sit behind me screaming for Whitehurst everytime Matt made a poor play last year. He was just OK in the Rams game last year, and was just f-ing horrible against the Giants and in relief against the Raiders. We do seem to be headed to the point that excile mentions–when run him out there because things can’t be much worse.

  9. My! Oh My! Cowboys let the Jets off the hook a week ago now put one on the 49ers. There were several great games today that came down to final plays. Yahn.. this is the Pitts

  10. BobbyAyala says:

    Seahawks gave my fantasy team a boost with 20 points for Pitt’s D. Thanks, Tarvaris.

    Pete Carroll will never say publicly what they’re thinking behind closed doors — The longer they blame everything BUT the QB, the longer they can start the QB, the more we lose, the better position we get in the draft.

    This team has one, huge, embarrassing wart, and we all know what it is.

    They’ll never say it, but this season is all about tanking.

  11. If we tank to get Luck, it’ll all be worth it. He’s going to be a stud. He’s not some clown like David Carr who went #1 overall just b/c of the position he played. He’s actually the best player in the draft who also plays the most important position.

  12. bulldog80 says:

    Can someone explain to me how this Bevell offense (although I’m hesitant to actually call it an offense) is better than what we had with Bates? Obviously Jackson sucks of course, but the plays aren’t impressing me either. I haven’t seen anything interesting yet. I do realize that it’s hard to do that when all you can manage are 3 and outs.

  13. TJ is B.A.D.

    ComPete can spin it however he wants, but TJ looked flustered and uncomfortable regardless of what kind of protection he had. Super good thing he was so far ahead with knowing the playbook!

    That wasn’t any fun to watch, at all. Bad play. Bad play-calling. I thought the OL looked a bit better though. I am also still in the mind of supporting what PC is trying to do. We invested a bit too much in 2 backup QB’s, but aside from that, I still like the overall methodology.

  14. boucherm says:

    I’ll happily go through a 1 or 2 win season if it leads to Andrew Luck.

  15. @boucherm,

    I don’t think people love Whitehurst as much as you say. It’s that they hate what they’re seeing from Jackson, and they’re frustrated by Carroll’s stubborn refusal to acknowledge those problems.

    The QB isn’t the only problem with this team, but it is one of the big problems.

  16. I dunno BobbyK, I’m a little concerned about Luck. It seems everyone was saying Ryan Leaf and Tim Couch had all the tools too. I really think Charlie Whitehurst could lead this team to a few more wins than T-Jax.

    And Portis isn’t the answer. I’m not sure why people think that. Raw talent rarely pans out into elite play at the quarterback position. Also, I think Bevell should be canned after this year too. I really looked forward to Josh McDaniels after everything panned out the way it did, but jesus, this is tiresome.

    I seriously hope Carroll is kicking himself in the ass for letting Hasselbeck go. There really couldn’t have been a better mentor for someone who was drafted next year. 3 years, 18 million with 10 million sure money, I’m sure Hass signed it. Draft a QB this year, let him learn behind hasselbeck for a year or two. Hass learned from Favre, and we’ve seen what happens to QB’s who learned from Favre. Hasselbeck and Rodgers.

    …on 2nd thought… didn’t Tjax learn from Favre for a while?

  17. boucherm says:

    Mr Fish–I hope you’re right, but remember very clearly much of the stadium chanting “Charlie, Charlie” in the stadium last year when Matt had a bad game.
    What bothers me is the assumption (that started week 1 of the preseason) that Whitehurst is significantly better than Jackson.
    It’s totally reasonable after these two weeks to start thinking that things are so bad on offense, QB definitely included, that a change couldn’t hurt, but that’s not been the position of most people I talk to and a large percentage of people on this blog.

  18. boucherm says:

    RADEon–you point about Matt being an ideal mentor for next year’s QB is a great one.

  19. RADEoN – I remember there were concerns with Tim Couch and his arm strength. And Ryan Leaf was a moron. All reports of Luck are that he’s a hard working (the anti-Leaf) good kid who has the intangibles, arm strengh (the anti-Couch), etc. There are no sure things, but with him I think it’s as “sure” as you’re gonna get. I’d rather take my chances with that than someone with

  20. dang computer!

  21. williambryan says:

    Leaf wasn’t considered a moron coming out. He was known for studying hard and sleeping in the coaches office and film room. The pressure got to him in the nfl. The people calling for Whitehurst (I’m one of them) know he hasn’t done a whole lot to prove himself. ok… But what has TJ done to deserve more chances? Nothing. He has played his way out of the starting job in the eyes of anyone with eyes. I hope, really really hope, That Carroll can see how bad Jackson is playing. There haven’t been any bright spots. None. his 2 TD’s were quick slants that any third stringer in the league could connect on. He does not have the “it” factor that winning QB’s have.

  22. bulldog80 says:

    I never thought we’d have a QB bad enough to make me wish for Rex Grossman. Hell, Cincy’s Dalton and Cam Newton are shaming him in first starts EVER.

  23. boucherm says:

    good comments. Jackson has shown nothing in games to say he’s better than Whitehurst. I’d like to think that the coaching staff is seeing something in practices and meetings that makes them feel he’s better.
    We do know they’ve stressed his history in this ofense as a reason he would start, and Pete and Schneider have each made multiple comments about Jackson having been pulled to early in Minnesota, and that they felt not only was that unfair to him, but that it damaged his confidence.
    Clearly the experience argument is fully out the window at this point. I think the perception they have that he was pulled early and needs to have faith placed in him is still affecting their decision significantly, and and we’re going to hear very little negative out of Pete in regards to Jackson because of it. I’m sure that he is privately thinking about making a QB switch, and has some idea about when, and I’ll bet we’ve got Jackson until the bye week.

  24. boucherm says:

    I’m coming across as a TJack apologist here, which I’m decidely not.

  25. boucherm says:

    BobbyK-I watched the Oklahoma game last night immediately followed by the Stanford game–the difference between Luck and Landry Jones (who I had regarded as the #2 QB for next year and a good consolation prize with the 4th pick in the draft) looked waaay bigger than I thought. I wish we could see Jones play in an NFL-type offense like Luck does, to see whether it’s the system that keeps him throwing 7 yard routse or if its a read/accuracy limitation.

  26. If what I’m thinking Carroll is doing is correct, then I’m all on his side, if not, then I’d call for his head and or job.

    I think he’s trying to get a stout defense, solid O-line, some weapons on the perimeter, and an abrasive running game all on a roll so a rookie QB can be quickly installed into it, and primed for success right out of the hole (I.E Mark Sanchez, Ben Roethlisberger, Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Sam Bradford, and hell I’ll even throw the likes of Matthew Stafford (although not so much as the other players) in there. Something set up to bail a rookie QB out of his shell-shocked pro experience and ease the growing pains, if you will.

    In my estimation, I like what i’ve seen from Brandon Weeden, Kellen Moore, Barkley (although if he doesn’t pan out, drafting him will be directly out of USC will be a huge travesty because of his relations with Carroll), Landry Jones, and of course, Andrew Luck.

    The reason I really don’t like SEA drafting Luck is because of how familiar Harbaugh is going to be with him.

    Landry Jones is pinpoint accurate and just a competitor, I can see him being a Phillip Rivers burner type QB. Not to mention the Sooners offense looks a lot more complex than bevell’s, so it won’t be hard for him to learn, and by Bevell’s offense, I mean your progressions are throw it out of bounds, run 5 yards backwards and take a sack, hand it off on 3rd and 26, throw a completion for around 2 yards to a double covered wr, when you have a wide open wr 17 yards downfield.

  27. bulldog80, we have a QB bad enough that I wouldn’t be sad if I found out Garrard was taking a trip to VMAC.

  28. williambryan says:

    Boucherm, Thanks and I agree. The comments PC and JS have made basically mandate that Tarvaris will get at least until the bye week. But all of his experience in this offense hasn’t helped the team. I have more faith that Hasselbeck (who I did not want back) could have done better so far (he did just tear up the same ravens that tore up these same steelers that just tore us up…) I was all for the youth movement but Jackson doesn’t really fit that in my opinion. We know what he is, he’s had plenty of experience in the league. Whereas CW has had only two starts, there is still hope that he might turn out to be good. The thing I’m afraid of now is Jackson having a good game (well, i’m not that afraid) and “earning” more time as the starter and continuing to underwhelm, similar to the rollercoaster we rode with Hass last year.

  29. boucherm says:

    RADEoN–I think you’re totally right about the overall plan, and I’m also behind it fully. My biggest fear is that we’ll be picking at number 3 or 4, and that they’ll draft a DE or something, planning on taking a QB in the second round. We’ve heard Pete de-emphasizes the QB position, but that’s no way to build a long term winning franchise in my mind. We can all see QBs should not be shopped for at discount prices.
    I don’t watch a lot of college games, but what I saw in Oklahoma last night was that Jones was very accurate on short throws, but his accuracy was pretty poor on anything reasonably deep. Their offense was just loaded with WR screens, quick hitters and draw plays, and all out of the shotgun/pistol, which to me doesn’t translate to Sunday football.

  30. AaronCurryIsBUST says:

    No kidding Radeon, Oklahoma’s offense looked much more detailed than Bevell’s signature Run Run Pass Punt.

  31. Southendzone says:

    I want Schneider and/or Carroll to come out and say that they went in to this TJ deal fully knowing that Matt is a better QB and that starting TJ over any other QB on our roster is going to cost us wins.

    This season already feels like the Mariners so we ought to treat it like the rebuilding year it is. TJ should be 3rd string and we find out who is more viable, Charlie or Portis. For both of those 2, at least we don’t KNOW that they are garbage so if we’re gonna lose let’s find out what we’ve got there.

  32. boucherm says:

    Everybody realizes Tom Cable is in charge of the run game, right? Anybody feel like that’s any eatter than the passing game?
    Lynch was as bad as anybody today.

  33. boucherm says:

    Should read “better than the passing game”

  34. I dunno about Leaf as a hard worker. I thought there was some story or whatever after Leaf was a Charger and they intervewed some regular WSU people and they said he was a jerk (maybe some teachers, students, and lesser players?). I know he had a great relationship with Price and they stroke each other off at all times, but I’m pretty sure I heard stuff about him not being a great person. I could be wrong, but I’d swear I heard something like this on ESPN or something.

    One thing for Jones, as in Bradford, but something that’s really tough coach-up is accuracy. Sure, you can improve it a bit (Jackson has actually improved on this so far if you followed his MN years) but it’s a special thing to have.

    We all know we need a QB and I’m going to be 100% behind whoever it is (provided I believe in him)… Luck is my 1st choice, but I’ll be okay with Flynn, Jones, etc.

    I think all Seahawk season ticket holders should cancel their tickets next year if they go into the season with Jackson the undisputed starter again. I really do.

  35. AaronCurryIsBUST says:

    Draft Luck and UW’s Chris Polk, re-sign Justin Forsett, and let Lynch walk. Thanks for Beastquake, Marshawn, but you have poor vision and struggle to maximize holes, even if they are big.

  36. grizindabox24 says:

    I am not sure how much can be read into the poor running game…no defense has to respect the passing game.

  37. Southendzone – the Seahawks “scored” as many points as the Mariners did today.

  38. boucherm says:

    The frustrating thing about Lynch is he looks hesitant in the backfield to me. I want a power back to hit a hole, even if there’s not much of a hole there. If you’re going to try to be a one-cut runner in a zone blocking scheme, decisiveness is paramount.

  39. boucherm says:

    grizindabox24–you could make the exact same argument in reverse.

  40. ACIB, if this was facebook, I would be clicking the “like” button lmfao.

    boucherm, here’s my logic (and this may be why I’m not an NFL coach).

    I look at the past 2-3 decades of super bowls. The only team that really stands out to me as a run-first, stout defense was the Ravens. Maybe when the Steelers “beat” seattle in XL, but let’s be honest here ;)

  41. ljarllrajl says:

    Unless PC can play right cornerback I don’t see how he can help.

    Maybe he could bench his incompetent QB?

  42. Hope Miami starts winning a few games so we can win the Luck sweepstakes.

  43. TSuck for luck?! Yeah, he’ll get us there.

    my gosh oh mighty…and Hass throwing for 358 was like salt in the wound. Carroll needs to fuck*8++ wake up!

    Has anyone read that damn book he just published?

    It’s like a religion with him…blind faith.

  44. Southendzone says:

    Absolute best case scenario for this year’s hawks:

    Horrible record, but the O-Line shows steady improvement. TJ starts the whole year due to front office stubbornness (or genius if we get the 1st pick nxt yr). We go into 2012 with good draft picks and hope for next season.

  45. I have never rooted for the Seahawks to lose. Ever. I was so irate at the people who wanted to lose to the Rams last year for “draft position.” But I ain’t gonna lie, the thought of Andrew Luck coming to the Seahawks gives me the warm fuzzies.

  46. I think Pete will give each QB 5 games, then see who makes the most of it for the remainder games. Sure seems like he whiffed a bit on Carp & Moffit. Hopefully they can improve a whole bunch but I don’t see a lot of progress. Oh yah, my toast is a lot Browner than I care for in the morning.

  47. “Oh yah, my toast is a lot Browner than I care for in the morning”

    Speaking of Browner toast…how about Brandon Browner? GMAFB….that dude belongs in the CFL…I’m already sick of him.

  48. boucherm says:

    Thought the Fox crew did a good job today talking about Browner. If we’re going to have a big, seemingly slower corner press, there has got to be some jam contact to disrupt routes.
    Didn’t see many snaps for Thurmond today–I was hoping he’d be the answer opposite Tru (who looked good).
    Safetys looked real good, except Kam’s whif on the TD run.

  49. seahawk44 says:

    Nobody here considers how much practice time and reps were lost due to the lockout. Basically these guys are still in training camp compared to past seasons. Yes….all teams had to deal with the same things but most teams are not playing so many inexperienced players nor installing new offensive playbooks.
    That being said…..Jackson is in a tough position. Because the team cannot generate a running game, the passing game will struggle. Therefore ….because Jackson stares down receivers, is very indecisive, won’t trust his wide receivers, is afraid to throw interceptions, and is being told to stay in the pocket ….he has not won over any fans. It doesn’t help that the first 2 games of the season were against. tough defenses on the road and he has. been without Rice.

    I believe the home opener will let the fans know positively if Jackson Can win games for this team. Hopefully Rice is back so that excuse is gone. If Jackson doesn’t get offensive points on the board quickly next week….we will hear the 12th man start chanting “Charlie …Charlie “.
    I don’t care who the QB is on this team I’ve been rooting for since I was 10 years old (nearly 35 years) I will always root for them to win the game and improve. I will never hope that they lose so they can draft a better college prospect. I understand the building for the future way of thinking…but if you don’t always put the team in the best position to win as a coach….you will lose the teams support.
    One more thing. The defense is good but Browner is a liability. He should only play against taller receivers. Where is Thurmond?

  50. PixelDummy says:

    While watching the Hawks this year I will maintain a Zen like calm as I visualize the bigger picture:

  51. AaronCurryIsBUST says:

    “Sure seems like he whiffed a bit on Carp & Moffit”

    Have to disagree, I criticized the Carpenter pick as much as anyone, but he looked just fine today at RT, held up well against a murderer’s row of Pittsburgh pass rushers like Lamar Woodley. Carpenter has looked like our best lineman along with Unger.

  52. AaronCurryIsBUST says:

    “Sure seems like he whiffed a bit on Carp & Moffit”

    Have to disagree, I criticized the Carpenter pick as much as anyone, but he looked just fine today at RT, held up well against a murderer’s row of Pittsburgh pass rushers like Lamar Woodley. Moffitt has looked like our best lineman along with Unger.

  53. freedom_X says:

    Here’s the theory I’ve come up with to explain why Jackson was immediately anointed the starter:

    Carroll knew in July that the O-line was going to be raw and totally overmatched. He had no illusions or hope that the line would come together in just 4 weeks.

    So, he needed a QB that was young and durable enough to take a severe beating, and mentally tough enough not to whine, point fingers, or complain. And did have knowledge of the offense. Dial up one Tarvaris Jackson. Whitehurst might not complain or point fingers, but I think he would react badly to the punishment.

    Jackson is a pure placeholder to absorb the beatdown. He’s not there to win the game, he’s there to not lose it. That’s the Carroll philosophy.

    He’s going to remain in there until either he gets knocked out by injury, or the line and receivers start improving and it’s clear Jackson is missing most of the throws. Right now, it’s 50% bad protection, 25% inept/sluggish route running, and 25% bad decisions by Jackson. Once it shifts to 50-50 (50% bad decsions) it’s Whitehurst time.

    Whitehurst would likely be knocked out in 4 games at this rate, and Hasselbeck would be already out by now. Call it a parting gift to Hasselbeck to let him go to a team that has a much better supporting cast than Seattle.

  54. Dafting Luck would be like throwing pearls to the swine.

    My Chrismas Wish for the 2012 Draft.

    1st rd. Dre Kirkpatrick CB Alabama
    2nd rd. Levy Adcock RT Okla.St.
    3rd rd. Alameda Ta’Amu NT Wash.

  55. I managed to see only the first half while on the road.
    What I saw was this:
    – a Steelers defense content to stuff the run and cover deep.
    – our young offensive line is improving surprisingly well in pass pro.
    – our young offensive line hasn’t learned to run block yet. At all.
    – Bevell called plays knowing our O line can’t run block yet.
    – Tarvaris had enough time but few open receivers downfield.
    – I didn’t see anything to suggest Whitehurst could improve anything.
    – our offense is in desperate need of a fast WR like Rice to stretch the field.
    – our D was stout but unable to make the big plays that could turn a game.

  56. boucherm says:

    Stevos-if you got that, you saw the whole game.

  57. freedom, I think your theory is about right. Whitehurst won’t get his chance until Tarvaris gets knocked out injured.

    I’d add a couple things to that theory… Choosing between Jackson and Whitehurst was more about choosing who goes FIRST as starter, than it was choosing who was clearly better. So why choose Jackson to start first?

    Because backing up until one day coming off the bench to save the day makes sense as a role for Charlie. Its all he’s ever done and he seems content with it.

    Meanwhile Jackson’s career had been screwed up by being poorly coached, thrown in as a starter before he was ready, then benched just as he was starting to mature and figure things out. If Jackson’s talent was going to emerge, it wouldn’t happen by jerking him around some more like Childress did. Carroll and Bevell wanted to see what Jackson could become if a coach finally showed confidence in him for a season.

    And Tarvaris isn’t the reason we are losing at this point, so there’s no point in benching him now.

  58. williambryan says:

    BobbyK, concerning the Leaf stuff, Mike Price is where I heard the stuff about Leaf sleeping in the coaches office and film room (at a coaching clinic he hosted some years back) so yeah…lol.

    Stevos, (and others not concerned with Jacksons play) It sounds like the same apologetic posts that have been historically saved for Hasselbeck. Jackson is the QB. It is his job to get the offense going no matter what he has around him. Look at Hasselbeck last year. He was very capable of making things happen with a supporting cast not all that different than what TJ has been working with. He was also capable of having a 3 INT game and costing the team any chance at winning. Jackson’s play has been inept no matter what excuses people may make. No one calling for Whitehurst (again, myself included) is proclaiming that he can solve all the teams problems BUT, he has performed well in the preseason and he has won more games as a Seahawks starting QB than Jackson has. Jackson has started alot of games in the league over the course of 5 seasons, naturally sitting when Favre came in. Whitehurst has started 2 (while understandingly, spending the majority of his career behind Rivers, an all pro, and Volek, an experienced backup, and Hass, an icon in seattle). I think most of us just want to see what he can do with an extended opportunity. Who knows what he might do with it (I believe he will succeed with it, just my feeling) but let’s find out.

  59. bigmike04 says:

    It doesn’t matter who you have at QB because our OL is too young except for Robert Gallary, this is young OL that is learn on the job, thought can anyone explain how in world did Tarvis Jackson get all these offers during free agency & Vince Young got none? Who is better QB my best bet is Vince Young as Tarvis Jackson couldn’t hold Bret Farve Jockstrap in minnesota..

  60. osbrey – I hope you have the Seahawks signing a Matt Flynn in FA with a draft wish list like that. I don’t think I can handle another year of our current QB situation. In fact, I know I can’t.

  61. freedom_X says:

    The O-line is worse than last year’s line. Significantly worse. Our perception is that it was very poor, and you’ll have a hard time convincing me last year’s line was anything more than below average, but there have been a number of offseason analyses linked to here that say Seattle had above-average pass protection in 2010.

    Starting two rookies guarantees this. If Carroll were trying to patch things over for wins, he’d have another veteran in there at least. Even if he can’t say it publicly, he is rebuilding that line and sacrificing current wins for future production. That’s also why Jackson is QB IMHO – the guy that can best deal with the beating. I have no doubt that’s one thing Jackson is better at than Whitehurst or the departed Hasselbeck.

    Funny how so many people here wanted Spencer and Locklear gone, saying “nobody could be worse” Welcome to reality – it’s worse. But with the goal of getting better in the future.

  62. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I went to the sports bar to watch the game with my girlfriend. We left around the middle of the third quarter. I wasn’t mad,and I wasn’t disappointed. I just wasn’t interested. I can’t remember if I ever felt this way before?
    Still trying to figure it out?

  63. Thank God Spencer and Locklear are gone. Built it up the right way, like they are doing, and take your lumps as you go. And in case nobody has noticed, the running game sucked balls last year, too, and the pass protection wasn’t all that terrible yesterday either. EXACTLY like last year. The stats make it look so, but not if you watched the game.

  64. ChrisHolmes says:

    It does make a difference who your QB is people… Jesus, it’s like some of you have never watched football.

    Do you think Peyton Manning and Tom Brady take so few sacks because their OL’s are THAT GOOD?

    No, it’s because they are great QB’s who read defenses quickly, process information quickly, know where to go with the ball and can make accurate throws with fast deliveries.

    Tavaris’s problems start with his inability to process information quickly. Watch him at the LOS – he has no idea what the defense is doing half the time, or what it is going to do. By the snap, he’s lost. He holds the ball way too long, and his delivery is slow – it’s all arm, and he throws from a very, very poorly setup base. His footwork is atrocious (I so miss Matt for this reason… his footwork was stellar).

    Knowing all of this, Bevell starts calling more and more bootlegs and rollouts to get TJ on the move with simple reads. And even then he still manages to F things up.

    He is one of the worst Seahawks QB’s I’ve ever seen. He’s completely incapable of playing the position at this level.

    I don’t think Charlie is “the answer”, but after watching him last year and his growth as a processor of information and the improvement in his throwing mechanics and accuracy, I think he gives us a much better chance to at least be competitive.

    Seattle was not competitive Sunday.

    The better your QB, the better they can make the OL look. That’s fact. TJ is a horrible QB and he makes our OL look pathetic. Yeah, they are young – but they will grow. It’s way too early to pass judgement on that unit. But Jackson – he’s been around for several years now, played on a MN team with far more talent on the OL and at the skill positions, and he was terrible there too.

    Give the job to Whitehurst already. Just ride the season out with him. He processes information faster, has a tighter delivery and better footwork. He’ll make mistakes, but I would rather have Charlie’s mistakes than TJ’s ineptitude…

  65. bulldog80 says:

    Well said ChrisHolmes

  66. I just realized something…

    This team went from upsetting the Saints in the NFC divisional round a year ago, to being the worst team in the NFL. That’s a tough pill to swallow.

  67. williambryan says:

    Good post ChrisHolmes

  68. Also, did you notice the “return of the infamous TJ Jump ball?”

    And, you can’t say we don’t have good receivers, even without Rice.

    Wonder how long Williams will back TJack when he’s not getting any catches?

  69. bulldog80 says:

    I rewatched parts of the game last night, don’t ask, and was struck by the presnap panic he seems to be in nearly every play. He is WAY out of his league. I’d like to find that dumoss Childress and kick him in the pills for even drafting this clown.

  70. HawkyHann says:

    Great post Chris Holmes. Just listen to the guy speak.Tarvaris is the grossest QB in the history of Seattle QBs, and should not even be on this roster.

    More roster churn, get it right guys. Make really weird moves. John Gruden, would you like to be paid Pete Carroll money? You have proved it. Paul Allen, might be time to trim the fat on Petes salary and make him “earn it”.

    Please read the post game write-up,

  71. chuck_easton says:

    I say TJack has one more game. If he stinks out the CLINK this Sunday Whitehurst is in.

    I know the thought was to possibly go until the bye week, but why wait that long?

    I give props to the O-line for yesterday. TJack had forever to stand back there. He just couldn’t find a receiver or he was too scared to throw it. You can’t tell me that not a single receiver was open at all.

  72. HawkyHann says:

    Flipping back and forth between Tarvaris’ depressing quick sand routine on Fox and Seahawk cast off Hasselbeck dissecting a premier defense on CBS with a team he’s had just as much practice time with as his Seattle replacement was frustrating.It’s the difference between a QB who knows the timing of this league and can convert basic quick passes and one who can do neither.

    for more on this…

  73. “We protected better today,” Carroll said. “It may not have looked like it, but we protected better today against a very aggressive front. So we made some progress there…”

    Are you serious? Pete, lay off the chronic man! For a while there, I thought you guys were running screen plays because you were letting the defensive lineman through all day…

  74. bulldog80 says:

    Watch it again, the protection was better.

  75. The Hawks performance under Carrol is embarresing, to say the least.

  76. Agreed, passpro was much better.

  77. “Watch it again, the protection was better.”

    “give props to the O-line for yesterday. TJack had forever to stand back there.”

    What??? Pitt knew there was no way that TJ would beat them, so they stayed in coverage for most of the game.

    We still gave up five sacks and would have given up double digit sacks if Pitt brought more blitzes.

  78. HawkyHann says:

    We are the laughing stock of the NFL. We honestly might not win a game this season. Pete’s decision to go with Tarvaris over Hasselbeck, Charlie, or any other vereran, is beyond frustrating.

    Good thing I shelled out big money to fly my family up from California for the home opener. I’m going to root for them, but at the same time, really hoping for Tarvaris to throw ints and get yanked. I was so bummed when Polamalu dropped the easy pick 6 yesterday. TJoke threw it right in his hands.

  79. bulldog80 says:

    Audible, Nobody said it was perfect. It was better though. He had opportunities and was unable to capitalize.

  80. aldenroche says:

    Whitehurst gets rid of the ball a lot faster than TJack.
    At the very least, we would have fewer sacks and more positive yards.

    I am shocked at his lack of ability to improvise when his first read is not there.

  81. My is that our protection only appeared better because of how Pittsburgh game-planned us.

    If Pitt had brought pressure, it would have been a far uglier game. The OL looked better only because they were only blocking 3 – 4 defenders on most plays.

    Sorry to be pessimistic because I want the OL to improve as much as anyone but they were clearly not tested yesterday.

  82. grizindabox24 says:

    The Hawks did not sign Hass or draft a QB because they knew the OLine was inexperienced and going to take a lot of lumps. They are hoping the OLine grows this season and they will draft a QB next year. Does anyone really think the Hawks would win a ton more games with MH still here? The guy would have gotten killed yesterday. The Hawks are willing to lose more games this year looking to improve next year.

  83. Since when is “press coverage’ standing at the LOS and letting the receiver run by you or sitting back 15 yards on 3rd and 4
    D has as much blame as O this game.
    if the D is going to press, then get in their face put some hands on the recievers and press them, take some chances.
    Hope the NFC W is as bad as they say or it’s gonna be a long season
    coaches do need to own up too, glad Pete did

  84. 28 year season ticket holder. I’ve seen some really bad QBs but this guy wins (loses!). I’ve never seen anyone look so clueless. He seemed totally unable to make any adjustments, many times just standing in one spot for several seconds as if he forgot what he was supposed to do.
    So, guess its time for Kingdome mode and hope we are building for the future. Been there many times.

  85. Plenty of 2nd year players and rookies performing well around the league, except here of course. BUST BUST BUST BUST BUST.

    This team is going nowhere. Seattle has issues.

  86. I think it’s coming along perfectly. Run Defense looks like last years before Red Bryant went down, now teams will probably throw the ball more getting the young secondary a lot of experience. The offensive line will get a season of work with a QB that was brought in to “take a lickin and keep on tickin”. Timex should be Tavaris’ nickname for this season. The stud WR you signed will miss at least half the season so that when the new QB comes in he will have someone to throw to. Leon Washington looks to be held back so there is a fresh RB available. All we need is a top 2 pick and this team can look to start winning again.

    This is the kind of patience I wanted to see from the Hawks.

    I think Carp and Moffit will be fine by next year. Even if they turn out to be reaches at least they’ll have a hard time being as bad as Locklear, Spencer, Wrotto, Gibson, Pitts and Vallos.

  87. williambryan says: “Stevos, (and others not concerned with Jacksons play) It sounds like the same apologetic posts that have been historically saved for Hasselbeck. Jackson is the QB.”

    I don’t think I ever defended Jackson. I said the team is losing for many reasons, no simply because of Jackson.

    Comparing Tarvaris Jackson to Hasselbeck (and others comparing him to Brady and Manning – LOL! – seem to be missing the point of what’s going on with the Seahawks rebuild this season.

    Matt Hasselbeck was brought to Seattle for STARTER MONEY and groomed to be the QB of the future.

    Tarvaris Jackson was brought to Seattle for BACKUP MONEY and he is being paid to take hits while a new young offensive line learns how to block.

    That’s a huge difference.

    But if you really want to make the comparison of Tarvaris Jackson to Matt Hasselbeck, then compare Hasselbeck’s first year in Seattle (2001) to Tarvaris’ first year in Seattle. Hass played much worse than Tarvaris is playing right now. And Holmgren kept grooming him until he gained confidence and improved.

    But Seahawks QB conversations this season all seem kind of stupid, doncha think? Next year at this time, Tarvaris will be on the bench backing up… Charlie Whitehurst will be retired and smoking dope in his Georgia mansion… and the Seahawks will be grooming some young QB being paid starter money. Meanwhile, the young O line will have grown up together a bit, the receivers should have some clue what they are doing, the young DBs should be covering better, and the 2011 season of rebuilding – hopefully – will have paid off.

    Again, Tarvaris Jackson is not the story of what’s going on with this team.

  88. Rebuilding is fine…however, better QB play results in more competitive and entertaining games and more wins. We can do better than TJ right now, and his name is Charlie.

    The smoking dope comment is silly unless you have proof. I don’t remember Charlie ever getting popped for pot or anything else. Please provide a link.

  89. williambryan says:

    I see what your saying Stevos. I think all of us expected to struggle especially in the win loss columns, but I think at the same time we were all hopeful to see some signs of life. The offense isn’t giving us any signs of life. I think Jackson is to blame for that, as the onus is on him to get things done. Hasselbeck played horribly but at least there were signs that he could throw the ball. But you’re very right again in that he was brought in for back up money, but I dont think he will be the backup next year. I feel confident that Whitehurst will outplay him. I am hopeful that Bevell will not be brought back and therefore the team won’t need Jacksons “knowledge” of Bevell’s offense.

  90. Seahawks fans are acting like they never saw this team get blown out on the road before, especially being shut out in Pittsburgh (21-0 in 2007 – the same 2007 team fans think was “good”).

    I can’t figure out what’s funnier, this or watching a 6’4 WR and a 6’4 CB who run 4.7 forties trying to play NFL Football. Or how about a 6’3 SS trying to change direction with a shorter more agile RB? I’ll hold my breath now everytime I see Chancellor as the last line of defense trying to make an open field tackle.

  91. Both Steve Atwater and Kenny Easley were 6’3. May have been the grass.

  92. Audible, okay you’re right. My smoking dope comment was probably out of line. lol! But seriously, Charlie guy grew up under his Dad’s reputation, never has shown the drive to compete to be an NFL starter, runs off the field wincing every time I’ve seen him hit, and he just seems way too relaxed and comfortable sitting on the bench year after year collecting backup money.

    Charlie looks like the ultimate slacker to me, a guy who looks like he figured out a long time ago how to use his talent to just slide by, get wealthy, and not dirty himself.

    At least Tarvaris looks pissed off when he’s on the bench, and at least he can take a hit and refuses to give his opponent the satisfaction of ever seeing him wince in pain. Of course, that’s not saying a lot. Tarvaris is being paid to be a human punching bag at this point.

    I was just questioning whether Charlie would be tough enough to handle that job, and I think Carroll made up his mind about that months ago.

  93. Steve Atwater and Kenny Easley were both 1st round picks. How many tall, strong defensive players had the agility and quickness of smaller players and were not drafted in the 1st round? I can’t imagine its that many but I can figure the players that shared that quality ended up as some of the all-time greats.

  94. I think Jackson gets at least 5 games, until the bye, to show something. If he plays truly poorly at home the next two games with Sidney Rice on the field, then replacing him at the bye will obviously be the fans choice.

    I’m not so sure it would be Carroll’s choice, though. Benching Tarvaris so early might only succeed in sending a message to the team that the coaches have given up on the season. Fans might think that move makes sense, but I can’t see Carroll doing that.

    I’m going to just try to enjoy watching the younger players grow this season. But damn its tough.

  95. IMHO Chancellor is a great tackler and appears ot have a good nose for where the play is going. As far as speed is concerned, Usain Bolt the worlds fastest sprinter is 6′ 5″ so I don’t think that height is necessarily a disadvantage. Ruskell tried the small and fast defense already and nobody liked the results so lets give these guys a chance to gel. It seems to me that it is the offense that needs serious attention. The Hutch curse is still bedeviling the OL.

  96. ChrisHolmes says:

    @williambryan You are so right – hoping for signs of life.

    Anyone who follows the team knows this is a rebuilding year, whether the front office comes out and says it or not. And any fan of this team is pleased that we finally spent some draft picks on the OL. Hopefully they develop and in a year or two we have one of the best, young OL’s in the game.

    But at the same time, you expect your team to be competitive on some level. And this is a QB driven league. We did nothing to address that position in the offseason.

    If we draft Andrew Luck next year, I’m not going to complain at all about how this season shakes out. But – I do have concerns about PC in this one regard: How does he really value the QB position?

    In my mind, QB in the NFL is the most important position on the field. And I simply worry that PC has a college coaches mentality when it comes to the QB position; in that he thinks he can get away with less. And that’s just not the case at the NFL level. If you want to win championships, you have to have a great signal caller.

    I have loved (LOVED) nearly every move PC and JS have made (with the exception of letting Matt go; I love the guy, think he could have been a stellar QB with better OC). But starting TJ and not drafting a guy like Mallet just makes we really question PC’s coaching philosophy concerning QB’s. It seems like the most important position on the field is not viewed that way by PC, and that concerns me for our future.

  97. “at least he can take a hit and refuses to give his opponent the satisfaction of ever seeing him wince in pain”

    As slow as he is at reading defenses and decided where to throw the football, he probably doesn’t even realize he’s been hit until he’s in the locker room after the game.

  98. pabs – if you want to compare Matt and ’07 to the Junster this year, don’t forget Matt brought the team to the play-offs that year. You’re not saying the Junkster is bringing us to the play-offs, right?

    The Matt/Jackson first year stuff baffles me. Holmgren expected Matt to produce and didn’t stick the pacifier in his mouth. He actually let him try to make plays. The Junkster has the training wheels on like there’s no tomorrow b/c you can tell the coaches know how bad he sucks. That’s definitely going to impact the stat line as far as turnovers are concerned.

  99. Its not that he’s slow in reading defenses, its that he refuses to make throws in tightly covered situations. But with Mike Williams as your number 1 WR, every throw is going to be tightly covered.

    This isn’t much different than when Hasselbeck would take a sack for the same reason. But then it was because his OL “sucked.”

  100. BobbyK – Do you think the Seahawks have anywhere near that easy of a schedule this year? Go back and check how many QBs the Seahawks faced that started for the same team the following year – it wasn’t very many. Then go back and check how the Seahawks fared against teams with winning records compared to how they fared with teams with losing records.

    2007 was one of the bigger hoaxes I can remember as a football fan.

  101. williambryan says:

    Pabuwal, So what if Mike Williams is covered? He still caught 65 balls last year and was Matt’s go to guy. Even if he is double covered he is open beacuse of his ability to get the ball. I don’t think Jackson knows if he is even on the field. I know this has got to be eating Williams up and pretty soon he won’t be able to hide his contempt for Jackson (assuming he continues to recieve -3 targets a game).

  102. 32 of Mike Williams 65 catches came in 3 games (2 of those were against the Cardinals). This means in the other 13 games he caught 33 balls. That’s weak for a starting WR in the Nattional Fantasy Football League.

  103. Its true that Jackson has “had the training wheels on”. I think that’s what Carroll meant when he said he “needs to help more”. He needs to give Jackson some plays downfield and allow the guy to use his abilities to make a play, mistakes and all, it has to be better than what he’s done so far. If Rice plays this week, we need to see multiple shots downfield. Using a QB as a “game manager” only works if a team has a running game. And this team does not. I’d rather see Tarvaris throw 3 TDs and 3 INTs and lose than watch him dump it off every time.

    But the whole offense stinks at this point. Especially the running game. Changing out one bakcup QB for another isn’t going to fix it.

    The only way I can watch this season is to believe the young O linemen can only get better and better.

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