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Giacomini is not Pinocchio’s dad

Post by Dave Boling / The News Tribune on Sep. 7, 2011 at 6:35 pm with 46 Comments »
September 7, 2011 6:35 pm

Since you asked: A couple quick thoughts on the Carpenter-to-guard scenario.

He looks like a natural guard, actually, and seems comfortable with the left-side footwork. The scuttlebutt is that he’s a sharp enough kid to handle the change in assignments. As you know, he’ll be operating in a more confined space, where he won’t face the demands of chasing any edge rushers. If he can keep his pads low and his butt down, he’ll be fine. It should be a little easier duty for his first exposure to the NFL regular season.

No, the didn’t draft him as a guard, but I don’t think that’s part of the debate at this point. I wouldn’t make too much out of this as a commentary on his future. I think right now, Breno Giacomini’s advancement at RT makes him one of the best five healthy linemen. With Gallery likely out, I can see the sense in trying Carpenter at left guard and giving Breno his shot at RT. I think more than anything, they’re scraping around to try to find a way to be the best they can this Sunday and they’ll worry about future implications later.

Breno’s footwork seems to have improved a great deal, and that allows him to be more efficient in using that natural strength. And, yes, he’s got some nasty to him. This is not a guy who will allow Darnell Dockett to dig his elbow into his quarterback’s throat.

They all will benefit from having an offensive scheme constructed to shield weaknesses, too, which was not the case during the preseason.

In researching a column for tomorrow about the effects of the lockout, it was interesting to note that guys like Carpenter and Moffitt were denied an estimated 1,000 snaps in minicamps and OTAs … not to mention the 42 scheduled player workouts at the facility.

Leave a comment Comments → 46
  1. pabuwal says:

    LT – Okung
    LG – Carpenter
    C – Unger
    RG – Moffitt
    RT – Giacomini

    Gentlemen, this might be your Seahawks starting 5 OL for the next several years.

  2. seriously, pabuwal? You think you can predict the seahawks starting O line more than a week in advance? Not likely. lol.

  3. Soggybuc says:

    If it works and wins the game I’m all for it

  4. Giacomo-Fe-Na-Nay

  5. pabuwal says:

    Stevos – its one of those things I would go to Vegas and ask for 50:1 odds. But I like the youth and potential of all of these players.

    I typically refrain from making comments on OL players (unless its general pass protection or run protection comments), but I feel pretty good about the long-term potential of these guys.

    If Gallery’s injury is severe enough and these guys can stay healthy, I think we can see the same OL combination for the entire year, for the first time in a long time (2007?).

  6. When Gallery returns do they put him on the bench?This could be a real mess.

  7. HawksKD says:

    Restated – with carp looking able at guard. Looks like Tom cable is a better judge of talent at guard rather than tackle….I.e gallery

  8. Skavage says:

    Gotta agree with KD on that comment. But personally, I think by week 2 or three we will see Geno on the bench and Carp at RT with Gallery at LG. But honestly I would love to see this current group do really well on Sunday so PC is tempted to keep it that way going forward.

  9. In the limited sample size of focusing on him during games, I did not see as much brute power/force as hoped, but I love his mentality and his footwork/technique seemed okay. A quote like this brings tears to my eyes…

    “This is not a guy who will allow Darnell Dockett to dig his elbow into his quarterback’s throat.”

    It is and should be a slap in the face of the losers that allowed Dockett to get away with what he did, too.

    Plus, Okung is a bad dude as well (when he’s actually on the field). We’ve heard about Moffitt/Unger having ‘tudes, too, and once these guys gel… we’re going to see something special. Just give them time and don’t hope for a miracle overnight. I hope there’s some Luck with them to bring us some Super Bowls.

  10. I’m all for whatever gives us a chance to win on Sunday. But I’ll wait a few games before praising Breno Giacomini as a starter of the future. It was only a year ago that Breno was a raw project backing up Tyler Polumbus, shortly after both players were backups cut by their former teams. Not much reason to have confidence in him yet.

  11. i dont see why Gallery couldnt play RT…

  12. nidhighe says:

    Carpenter may be like Gallery, a college tackle better suited to guard in the pros.

    –Danielle

  13. Based on what we saw of him against speed/edge rushers from his RT position, you’re probably right. You can blame only so much on being out of shape and a rookie. To me, slow feet also don’t lie. I’m am utterly jacked at the prospect at seeing him at LG. He’s actually closer in age to Okung than he is to Moffitt on the right side (Moffitt is actually almost a year older than Okung).

  14. bigsmooth says:

    My gawd can we relax on the “all moves mean all things” mentality. The team is just trying to get their 5 best OLineman on the field for GAME 1 of the season. Not sure how that fact solidifies Carpenter as a bust at RT? Like Eric stated, the kid has missed 1000 snaps! AT THIS POINT in time Breno is a better RT. Even if Carpenter is forced to play guard all season, he’ll get a shot at RT next camp.

  15. bigsmooth says:

    The kid was one of the best left tackles in the SEC last year. Seems like he’s capable at tackle?

  16. @Danielle – Good point, but let’s be fair, few college players make the transition to OT in the NFL very quickly.

    Last year the 49ers drafted Anthony Davis at #11 and although he’s one of the most talented OTs drafted last year he is still struggling to keep his starting job and might not start this Sunday either. It takes most OTs a couple of years to adjust to the speed and stunts of the NFL. Russel Okung is one of those rare few who walk right in and start successfully. We should remember what a gem we have in him, but maybe not expect Carp to match that so quickly.

    Still, if a guard he be, then a guard we need!

  17. What if he’s a bust for 5 seasons? Can we call him a bust then? My guess is “no” based on how people think Jackson needs more years to “prove” himself. And that was when he had a good line and team around him so they can’t whine about how our line sucks right now and he can’t show what he can really “do.”

  18. Soggybuc says:

    Poor Dave, he never gets any credit..

    Ok lets re hash this argument from last week.
    That 1000 snaps the rookies missed this year looms large and none more so than Carp. i have read multiple times and places that going from RT to LT is a transition and needs some time. Carp got screwed on the time part this year.

    A guy spends YEARS training his body and feet to go left to the point that it becomes pure instinct. now in one month learn to do it all backwards? to all of you right handed writers out there (yes I know thats an oxymoron as no writes anymore) switch to writing left handed tomorrow and come tell me you have it mastered in a month. I’d highly doubt that.
    There are some guys who have made the switch with ease sure, but i would argue thats not the norm.

  19. Stevos – most good 1st round tackles were good as rookies (Joe Thomas, Bryan Bulaga, Ryan Clady, and our own Russell Okung [when healthy], etc.). They didn’t need years to prove themselves. Most high pick tackles who sucked as rookies, continued to to be less than their organizations wanted (Jason Smith, Andre Smith, Chris Williams, Alex Barron, etc.). Sure, you can manipulate any stat the way you want it to, but the fact is that most tackles, on average, either looked good as rookies and became really good or they sucked as rookies and really didn’t end up as anything special. IMO, offensive tackle is one of the easiest positions to transition to in the NFL. It may not be there with LB or RB, but it’s easier than some like CB, DT, WR, etc.

    Personally, I think A. Davis for the 49ers kind of sucks and that’s why he’s not going to play much. I wouldn’t have touched him with a 10 foot pole in the 1st round last year (and glad the ‘Hawks didn’t).

    bigsmooth – A. Smith was a stud LT at the same college as Carpenter a few years earlier and he can’t handle LT with the Bengals (and was picked much higher). What’s your comeback for that?

  20. Soggy – go back about a week and read my unscientific post about how most high pick (1st round) LTs from the last 5-6 years who transitioned to RT in their rookie years were either good right away or sucked. The good ones turned out to be good/better. The guys who had trouble really haven’t done much (they may have improved, but not to the point of being good). It’s pretty simple as that. But, yes, the one variable is that the OTA situation is different this year (but Carimi can seem to handle it).

  21. Waaaay too early to make any calls on Carp – gee, he wasn’t an all-pro in his first training camp – one where the coaching staff claims that they left him on an island to see how he would adapt to the speed and power of the pro game? Oh – and remove 1000 snaps that most rookies would have received by now. Who’s surprised? I hear nothing but accolades for Okung – but this time last year the scuttle was that he’d be very good but no Walter Jones. I love the instant analysis experts… You’re all guessing! No one knows! We haven’t seen a real game yet – with a real game-plan, starters playing. I would have loved to see Carp dominate – he didn’t. Doesn’t mean he won’t. Let it ride and see where it goes before you all decide boom or bust – at least give him time to earn his grade. I agree that for this weekend they are trying to get the best 5 out there.

    Remember too – the draft is just a way to procure talent – if we got an all-pro guard then damn – we’ve needed one for half a decade. If he works out to be a solid tackle – ok – we still win. It’s all a crap-shoot. Ask the guys that drafted Leaf, Mirer, J. Russell, Alex Smith, etc… Even heisman winners are no guarantees. We may be set – we may still be looking.

  22. Props to pabs a bit with Davis (he’s from the area where Davis went to college, if I remember correctly)… he said there would be no in-between with him. He’d either be a stud, or he’s truly suck. He wouldn’t be okay. Of course Singletary would force feed him in his rookie year (it was “his” guy) but Harbaugh has no investment in him whatsoever so he’s not going to play him if he sucks and isn’t the best they have. No surprises there.

  23. I don’t know if anyone has really said Carp is a bust? I haven’t. Reason for worry at RT? Yes. A bust? No. Can he eventually transition to LG if he’s not what the staff wants at RT? I believe so. No matter what, if he fails at RT, I believe he will be fine at LG. That’s not a bust in my books. I’m fine with that. And who is “guessing” about Carpenter after seeing him in action? There is some tape to go on (such as the naturally slow feet – reason why I think he may be ideal at guard). No?

  24. How many people here have complained that we drafted a LCB and tried him primarily at RCB?

  25. BobbyK says: “most good 1st round tackles were good as rookies. They didn’t need years to prove themselves.”

    Dude, that might be true for many. But I’m not about to pass judgement on a player whom none of us actually knows a heck of a lot about yet.

    Carp and Moffitt are barely even rookies; they have not played one single game. Let’s see what happens over the next few weeks before panicking. No one knows how well Carpenter, or Carimi for that matter, will be playing a few weeks from now. Carp only played two years of major college ball, and that was on the left side. If he takes a year to learn his new position and new league, he can still be a great player.

    Giacomini has been practicing RT in the NFL for over three years now, and it took Carpenter about 3 days of practice at RT to equally as good as he is. Give Carp a couple more weeks and he should bury Giac on the bench and move on from there.

    Might help to remember that all NFL rookies, its August 1st right now. That’s how much work they’ve had practicing in the big leagues.

    But how about we at least watch these guys perform in an actual game before we judge.

  26. I’m not “panicking.” I think he’ll be a good LG if he can’t cut it at RT. I care about 2012, not this year (as the FO proved to me they don’t care about this year either when they committed to our current QB… which has made me wonder why they haven’t been “committed” to a mental institution, unless they want Luck as bad as me).

  27. g’night John-boy.

  28. BobbyK, how has “Jackson been a bust for 5 years”???????? He didn’t play the last two because of Favre and injuries.

  29. AaronCurryIsBUST says:

    “This is not a guy who will allow Darnell Dockett to dig his elbow into his quarterback’s throat.”

    Amen to that!!!! The most underrated move of this offseason was letting Chris Spencer kick rocks. Glad that loser won’t have an opportunity to stand around with that defeated look on his face while Dockett grinds his elbow into our franchise’s best QB ever again.

  30. natedog

    I guess he hadn’t practiced and sucked for the last few years either, right? In the past few years, he hit all of his open receivers in practice, correct? Those mean Vikings were so unfair to judge him and not want him, right? All I’ve heard is that he didn’t clean up any accuracy issues since he had last started (“regularly”). Of course, I wasn’t at the practices (but some buddies who saw him each year said he sucked in training camp in Mankato with accuracy) so I’m only going on what people around here reported (friends and “real” media with the “real media” being MORE credible). Of course, I’m sure they lied. Come to think of it, Jackson is going to be better than Johnny Unites ever could and more accurate than Joe Montana in his sleep. Sounds about right (and I know you’re not insinuating this garbage… but other blowhards keep blindlessly following him, no matter what, it seems). Oh, and Jackson didn’t play last year and suck? News to me. But I’m sure all of the apologists who “insist” he can’t be terrible won’t listen to such news. That would ruin their fantasy and optimism for 2012 (actually, I wish I were foolish enough to believe in 2012 — and I dont’ want any idiots thinking that we rock if we beat the worthless 49ers on Sunday… that’s almost a bye, considering how bad they are with a new coaching staff taking over). But, oh, that’s right, no other team in the NFL had a shortened off-season. It was only the Seahawks (who didn’t have to worry about a new coach either – like the 49ers).

  31. DFloydd says:

    BobbyK,

    I’m confused. are you saying you do not like TJack and want Luck in 2012? LOL! just kidding. true question now. You want Luck sooooooo bad next year and sounds like he will be the hot commodity. Please give me your reasons as to why he is a sure-fire, can’t miss next reincarnation of an Elway, Montana, Aikman, Brady?i just find that those kind of QBs drafted so high rarely work out…. just curious as to your super-crush on him being the franchise savior….I do agree, TJack ain’t showed me nuthin in MN or SEA so far….,kind of a dumb move IMO…..shoulda let CW start, kept Portis and signed a veteran as a back up just to get us to next year’s draft….and used the TJack money on some more badass D-Linemen….just my thoughts….

  32. DFloydd says:

    ….and I can guarantee that with how things go in Seattle sports there is no way in hell Luck ends up a Seahawk…no way….I wish he would but I think the chances are about as much as being struck by lightning…..

  33. surelyyoujest says:

    Ah, the sound of late night, pre-season nashing of teeth…..LOL. Young team this year, lets see how it plays out. I don’t have high expectations for our overall record, but am hopeful to see some stars start to emerge. That’ll be the harbinger of dominance for the future.

    I don’t know if Carpenters struggles are due to the transition to the NFL (and lack of reps) as much as the transition from the left to the right side of the line (and lack of reps). That’s remapping your brain, which can make any of us look slow footed. Time, and only time, will tell. Either way, a dominant LG isn’t a bad fallback position.

    Go Hawks!

  34. pabuwal says:

    “To me, slow feet also don’t lie.”

    No truer words have been spoken when trying to assess the prospects of a College OT in the NFL. It was true of Anthony Davis (49ers RT) coming into the pros and it appears to be true of Carpenter.

    If this new OL combination can gel fairly quickly, I think Seahawk Nation will be shocked what they get out of Tavaris Jackson after he has a few games to get comfortable. He has only been on the team for a month at this point. The entire offense has been rebuilt from scratch. Unlike Whitehurst, I think I’ve seen Jackson actually progress through reads and to me that’s pretty encouraging.

  35. confucious says:

    Who will PC replace Okung with after he sprains his ankle on the first play of the regular season? Half of the line shifting they did last year was to fill in for his injuries.

  36. ChrisHolmes says:

    @DFloydd Do yourself a favor and watch a couple Stanford games this year. Just a couple. You’ll get it.

    Luck has been taught a pro-style QB offense by a guy who is now an NFL head coach (and frankly, a guy I would have loved to have coaching Seattle).

    There are never really any “can’t miss” QB prospects (maybe Peyton Manning was; but that’s as close as anyone has come). But there’s a big difference between being NFL QB ready and being a great college QB. They are two totally different animals (and every single year the NFL experts and gurus still get it wrong, and still get caught up in things like 40 times and athleticism; it’s never about that in the NFL).

    Luck has everything in takes to be an NFL caliber QB. I’ll be watching to see if he has a Locker-like drop-off though, without his head coach around.

    As for Jackson – the guy had every chance to succeed with a MUCH BETTER team of talent, and he sucked. Why anyone thinks he can succeed in Seattle is beyond me. He lacks every major tool that an NFL QB needs to be successful. This is probably the one thing I’m most concerned about when it comes to PC as a coach. I dig everything about PC except this one thing: he doesn’t seem to understand what makes a good NFL QB. It’s not athleticism, it’s not throwing on the run, it’s not scrambling… It’s reading defenses, making quick decisions, throwing with accuracy and having poise in the pocket.

    Running around at the QB position is for college kids where defenses can’t keep up or gameplan as well. If PC doesn’t adjust his philosophy on what is important at the QB position in the NFL, we’re doomed as a team for years to come…

  37. rossijt says:

    pabuwal,

    based on the last few years…those 5 OL will be your starting line for the next five minutes!

    http://hawkandroll.blogspot.com

  38. Ewalters7354 says:

    Chris,if that’s the case Andy Reid doesn’t understand the QB position either huh?Cause from what I can recall all his qb’s have had those characteristics.I believe Pete Carroll just wants a QB that will take care of the ball,make smart decisions and not hurt the team with costly turnovers.If that’s not a good philosophy I don’t know what is.

  39. ChrisHolmes – I think your concerns are solid. But I don’t think its accurate to say Carroll does not “understand what makes a good NFL QB”.

    I don’t think Tarvaris was Carroll’s ideal choice. I think he was the best fit available as a $2M place-holder while he builds the rest of the offense. Carroll wanted Bevell, and Bevell was told he must wait for the right QB to come along. Bevell chose Tarvaris as the guy for now.

    The choice wasn’t between Tjack and an NFL-ready QB with everything Carroll might want.

    The choice was between Bevell’s guy Taravaris at 2 yrs $4M, or rickety old Hasselbeck for 3 yrs $21M, or Kevin Kolb for 6 yrs $65M.

    Carroll said, “thanks but no thanks, I’ll find my QB next year. Let’s spend our money on building the rest of the team this year.” Tavaris and Charilie are fill-ins.

  40. bird_spit says:

    Stevos sums it up pretty good. Can we stop the TDumb crap and play ball. TJ has as good a chance at succeeding as any other available QB. The expectations are so low, he will surprise on the upside. And with this young line, there is a real good chance we will see CW before long.

  41. some more knowledgable about Tarvaris than me would disagree with what I said above about him just being Carroll’s fill-in. That gives me some hope we might see something before this year ends.

    This is a really good article, and the most hopeful thing I’ve read lately about Jackson:

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/seahawks/2016137771_jackson08.html?syndication=rss

  42. hawkfan777 says:

    Stevos,

    Right on the money.

  43. I just want to say, that I am really tired of scrambling to field a cohesive O line EVERY STINKING YEAR.

  44. “I don’t think Tarvaris was Carroll’s ideal choice. I think he was the best fit available as a $2M place-holder while he builds the rest of the offense. Carroll wanted Bevell, and Bevell was told he must wait for the right QB to come along. Bevell chose Tarvaris as the guy for now.”

    Exactly. And we’ll see if Kolb was worth all the Cards gave up for him. He might be, but I don’t fault management for holding off when we have so many other needs.

  45. yellaman says:

    The issues on the offensive line will be a issue all year. This group will take 2-3 years of time together to gel into a high caliber group ( about 30-50 starts together) The seahawks are in a rebuilding mode (no matter what PC & JS say)and whenenver this line becomes viable group thats when we will see victories start to stack up so be patient hawk fans. Whether Carp plays RT or LG just remember he is 1 of 5 pieces on the O-Line so we just need him grow and improve in whatever position he plays. That is the most important thing because the talent is there and we just need Okung to stay healthy, unger to stay healthy, Moffitt & Carp to improve and grow and Gallery to play and show leadership to the younger guys IMO

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