Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Reaction to Hawks 20-7 loss

Post by Eric Williams on Aug. 21, 2011 at 8:52 am with 51 Comments »
August 21, 2011 8:54 am
Seattle Seahawks quarterback Tarvaris Jackson gets pressure against Minnesota. (Joe Barrentine/TNT)

Check out the box score here.

John McGrath of The News Tribune offers his thoughts on the post-Matt Hasselbeck era and they’re not pretty.

McGrath laments an offense that has struggled to move the ball and find any kind of continuity with Tarvaris Jackson at the helm.


“For all their supposed familiarity with Bevell’s offensive system – and with each other – Jackson and Rice appeared to inhabit dissimilar wave lengths. The new quarterback didn’t throw to the $41 million receiver until 4:36 remained in the first quarter, when the ball was overthrown down the right sideline.

“A few minutes later, some apparent confusion on a downfield route preceded another overthrow to Rice, who finally caught two, short passes – late in the second quarter, against the Vikings’ No. 2 defensive unit.

“And though there was a jump-ball completion to a tall Seattle receiver enjoying a mismatch advantage, the pass was to the 6-5 Mike Williams.

“The struggle to establish a connection between Jackson and Rice was symptomatic of an offense racing against the clock to develop some continuity. Nine position changes would be a challenge during a normal offseason, much less an offseason truncated by a 136-day lockout.

“What does the offense need to work on before the 2011 schedule kicks off at San Francisco on Sept. 11? The better question is: What doesn’t it need to work on?”

Here’s my game story from Saturday, which includes the sad fact that Seattle’s first unit still has not scored with Jackson leading the offense so far this season.

Doug Pacey of The News Tribune writes that receiver Golden Tate held himself accountable for the two dropped passes he had in the first half.

Art Thiel of weighs in on Seattle’s performance against the Vikings, offering a Q & A style response to the evening. Worth a read.

Clare Farnsworth of writes that Charlie Whitehurst is locked in a quarterback competition with himself.

ESPN’s Mike Sando offers his take on the game.

Although he’s no longer with the team, former Seahawks Lawyer Milloy offered his opinion on Seattle’s quarterback situation, saying Charlie Whitehurst should be the starter via twitter.

“Charlie Whitehurst should be our starting QB opening day. #ImJustSaying. What u think #12s #12thman #Seahawks #seattle”

Milloy then followed it up with this tweet:

“I promise I want TJack to do well… Charlie Played his butt off to allow the Hawks a shot at the playoffs. 2 good pre-games deserves a shot”

Dan Pompei of the National Football Post lists Lofa Tatupu and T.J. Houshmandzadeh among the top free agents still available.

Gwen Knapp of the San Francisco Chronicle reports that two fans were shot outside Candlestick Park after the San Francisco 49ers-Oakland Raiders game.

Morning links
Leave a comment Comments → 51
  1. BobbyAyala says:

    The defense is going to be good this year. The run game will be productive. Charlie’s 8-minute drive is exactly what this team needs to succeed. If Charlie can lead a ball-control effort like that with nothing but short throws, this team potentially could win quite a few football contests. The defense is good, man.

  2. BobbyAyala says:

    A few license plate suggestions:



  3. Charlie needs to start all 16 games so we can see if he’s legit moving forward. I already know and knew what comPete and Bo didn’t know about T-Jack and I’m just some stupid couch potatoe who has been saying the same thing about Jackson from day one. At least the “give him a chance” people are starting to figure it out (not that they should have needed 5 years + 2 weeks). Looks like Milloy is smart enough to figure it out, too.

    If someone rewatches the game today, check for Carpenter. Did he really look as bad and overmatched as I thought he did on the small sample size of plays that I focused on him?

  4. Whitehurst needs a shot, although he has played against 2nd stringers he’s been looking great, getting real zip on the ball, been surprisingly accurate, and we can’t forget he can move a bit, not as much as Jackson, but still. I’m a Whitehurst guy now, never thought I’d say that, but he has been nothing but a positive surprise this offseason, even thought he looked like a leader on the sidelines when the cameras pointed at him.

  5. BobbyAyala says:

    Carpenter pancaked Luis Castillo twice against SD. Those of us who missed the first half because of the NFL Network’s shoddy ass work, didn’t see the OLine when the real bullets were flying.

  6. Ewalters7354 says:

    BobbyAyala,hey bud haven’t seen a post from you in a nice min

    I agree with Bobbyk also.Charlie needs to show what he can do over 16 games.Tjack has shown what he can do from his time in Minn.I mean he was there for 5years and has played alot of games while Charlie has appeared in a handful(2starts).I love his skill set.He just may be good if Pete doesn’t allow Jackson to start.I think he wanted to give him confidence but I also think that motivated Charlie.

  7. Interesting to log in here today and read all the wild over-reactions on last nights blog. This was preseason game 2, fellas. Preseason for a rebuilding team starting 6 new starters on offense, some who have never yet played in an NFL game. They still haven’t. This was a practice game, no gameplan, no preparedness.

    Even Eric’s headline is an exaggeration. There was no loss. There was no win. This was practice for a bunch of rookies.

    The main point I took away was that putting two very raw rookies side-by-side on an offensive line, with barely any training camp, and putting them up against a starting NFL defense, is a good way to completely embarrass those rookies and your whole offense.

  8. Dukeshire says:

    Jackson had a just a small handful of opportunities to get the ball downfield. So to be disappointed he did establish a connection to Rice with one previous start together in 3 years is curious. As with any offense, it all begins up front and Seattle’s inexperienced line was abused by a veteran group in that first half. That is to be expected. We’ll see less and less of that as the season wears on, but it’s going to take time.

    Charlie is making a case, not doubt. And you can only play against who’s in front of you, but he did have the benefit of playing against the twos. And in the end, their numbers weren’t that dissimilar.

  9. HawkyHann says:

    Damnit Pete, give the QB job to Charlie. You might not be here next year. Nothing is guaranteed. Really, your going to gamble on an extremely dumb QB who can only run? Really Pete? Stop making this difficult. Everything Charlie does is better than Tard boy. I actually think Curry might be smarter than Tard Jax, and Curry struggles with everything.

  10. From my endzone seats I can’t always see everything that goes down. I have yet to replay the game online to see it from the tv camera perspective. But from the endzone, I get to see a lot of the line play between the tackles.

    It wasn’t good. The first half was maybe the worst offensive line performance I’ve seen by a Seahawks team, ever.

    At the same time, this was two different football games. Second half was 100% different teams than who played in the first half.

    Yes, Charlie was very good. Without commentators or tv cameras, I’m still curious whether the tv guys pointed out that the defense Charlie was carving up was strictly bush-league, 2nd and 3rd string. That Vikings backup D was as bad as any defense I’ve seen, including Seattle’s backups. To imagine that Tavaris wouldn’t have carved them up just as easily would be silly. Charlie was good, but that was the easiest practice session of pitch-and-catch he’ll have all week.

  11. ZombieLatics says:

    The post Fragileback era began three years ago or are we all fondly remembering the past three terrible seasons? He was not a good QB and the team was not good with him (sorry, while it was fun, a 7-9 season is not a good season, they were terrible last year). Give it up, he’s been gone.

  12. Dukeshire says:

    HawkyHann – where is Carroll going? Are you suggesting he’ll be fired?

  13. I think Charlie could make a case for himself IF he played behind our staring O line against the starting D line of the Vikings. He didn’t. He was playing against a different football game than Tavaris played against.

    And, notably, Charlie played behind a better offensive line.

    Last night, the line of Robinson-Mcquistion-Gibson-Fanaika-Giacomini easily handled the Vikings backup D line. That’s not saying a lot; the Vikings backups looked pretty weak.

    Seahawks starting line of Polumbus-Gallery-Unger-Moffitt-Carpenter was just plain bad. Really bad. They looked like they were still trying to execute basic drills instead of working together to execute football plays and counter the D line. The Vikings D line starters had an easy time of it.

    The two O linemen I’d call out for having good games were Polumbus and Gallery. They teamed to handle Allen very well, and Gallery got to the second level on a number of blocks.

    Carpenter-Moffit-Unger — UGH! You guys were pathetic. Last years right side of Spencer-Andrews-Locklear never looked this bad on their worst day.

    But, of course, that’s to be expected. Carpenter and Moffitt showed that at this point they have no business being on a football field against NFL starters. They aren’t close to being ready. They have two more practice games, which is probably not enough time to practice all that they need to learn. If they don’t improve significantly in the next two weeks, neither of them should be allowed to start on opening day. Cable needs to make these guys smarter in a hurry, improve their techniques fast, or they will both be liabilities on opening day. If opening day was this week, I’d start Fanaika and Polumbus at RG and RT. Right now they are better players and Moffitt and Carp. Of course, the idea of staring Moffitt and Carp every day is to try to get them ready. That plan makes sense; we’ll see if it works out.

    Doesn’t matter who starts opening day at QB, we’ll lose that game if these young O linemen can’t grow up very fast.

  14. When fans like a QB like they liked Hasselbeck they would blame the entire team around him for Hasselbeck’s poor performances and rookie INTs.

    Now, with literally a brand new OL (2 rookies, a turnstyle at LT and possibly yet another washed up LG), a stiff like Golden Tate dropping passes and just 2 weeks of practice, everyone is blaming the QB and calling for Whitehurst. There can be no worse situation for a QB to come in and be successful. If there is, please let me know about it.

    Jackson is exactly as advertised but so is Whitehurst. The coaching staff is going with the guy they think has the better upside which I have no problem with at this point.

  15. seahawk44 says:

    I agree with Stevos. This was only preseason game 2. It was practice. There was no gameplan. The team needs time which is something that was cut short by the lockout. I’ve been reading this blog long enough to know that these fan over-reactions are inevitable. Sure I have my worry positions, but I realize that preseason means diddly and will wait until the games count to make reasonable assessments. This team is young and talented. It just takes time.

  16. ChrisHolmes says:

    The OL I don’t worry too much about; they didn’t gameplan. There was no scheming. They’re young. Inexperienced. But they at least have the raw ability to be a great front five. And in Cable’s hands I trust that could happen, if not by the end of this year then by next season.

    And it appears we’ll be in the Andrew Luck sweepstakes if PC keeps insisting the Jackson is our starting QB. Becase Tavaris is exactly as advertised: The Suck. I don’t give a rip about his numbers; he is lost back there. This is not the position he should be playing in the NFL. He can’t read a defense and he can’t see past his first progression. He’s an arm-thrower; he will always lack accuracy. He’s just not what NFL QB’s are made from. He’s just not.

    I’ll defend BobbyK on this forever. Jackson will never, ever be a legit starting QB in the NFL. And I feel bad that PC allowed Bevell to convince him otherwise.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if we had a new OC to go with our brand spanking new rookie QB next spring…

  17. Sherels 64-Yard INT / TD vs. Seattle

    Golden Tate Drop?

    Tate should have caught that pass, sure. But it was delivered late, high in traffic and behind him. TJ was just indecisive under little pressure.

    C. Whitehurst 14/19 .. 97 .. 5.1 .. 1 … 0 … 102.3
    T. Jackson … 11/21 .. 75 .. 3.6 .. 0 … 1 …. 40.8

    S. Rice 2 … 11 .. 5.5 … 0 .. 9 … 5

    Duke – so goes the TJ to Rice 16 yard average per rec
    cough .. was but 1/3 of that

    Excusses are all well and good but Carroll claimed TJ starter because he would hit the ground running.
    Yeah, he can’t pass, so all he does is run.

  18. I got stuck in Helena MT and five places said they would have the game: none did. Some because they were cheap and hadnt bought NFL Sunday ticket for the preseason (and thier idiot staff wasnt aware of this), some because the pathetic NFL Network decided to overlap games and show the crappy Saints/Texans game instead of the Hawks game.

    To make matters worse, when that game ended, NFL Network showed interviews and talking heads INSTEAD of showing the rest of the Hawks game! REALLY?! The NFL Network broadcast interviews instead of showing the preseason game of the closest NFL team in this state?!! Unbelievable!

    This happened last year during preseason vs the Raiders.

    Come on Roger Goodell, get a grip! What the hell are you doing?!

  19. ljarllrajl says:

    I’m currently rewatching the game and here are some impressions I get on some hot topics:

    1.) T-Jack seems to presnap read defenses ok, but after the snap he shows very little field awareness. e.g. – a blown up screen play to Forsett that had Zach Miller running forlornly between the hash marks.

    2.) The 1st offense hasn’t scored but they’ve been thriving in time of possession, so far.

    3.) Carpenter and the running backs have been the biggest culprits in the poor pass blocking. Moffit has actually played pretty well.

    4.) Golden Tate seems to have difficulty making plays within the flow of the offense. If he needs special plays just to get the ball then maybe he doesn’t belong seeing how players like Baldwin and Durham look more fluid in the offense.

    5.) Maybe Aaron Curry could put on 25 pounds and play defensive end full time. Because as it stands, he may be putting together a nice journeyman career at LB.

  20. I am more concerned with the lousy offensive line play than T-Jack not completing passes. If the line doesnt play well, Tom Brady wouldnt complete downfield passes. So it will become a moot point.

    As for Golden Tate, he’s right where I thought he was: basically still a rookie and certainly not ready to be our starting slot reciever. But anyone talking about giving up on him is flat out nuts. He’s gonna take three-four years to catch up to the NFL. Remember, this is only his fourth year playing receiver, and the lockout had to have cost guys like him dearly as far as their progression.

    Roddy White, the only Pro Bowl WR ever drafted by Timmay! Numbskull, sucked for two years, and only began putting it together in his third season. I think its going to take Tate, the former RB, just as long if not longer. However, I sure hope he can get onfield more this season, and perhaps show some of that big-play ability he flashed at times last year.

  21. I watched the game on local television in Minnesota and Rick Spielman (the man who calls the shots) was with Mayock and whoever else for the entire 3rd quarter and part of the 4th quarter. They never mentioned Jackson but when asked about Ponder, Spielman made it clear that he wants/needs a QB to be two things:
    1. accurate
    2. awareness
    To me, this was a direct compliment about what they saw from Ponder at FSU and a clear analysis of why Jackson wasn’t retained. Spielman was the guy (along with Childress) who drafted him so it’s not like he wasn’t “his guy,” too. He simply determined, that he wasn’t worth investing another year to after seeing his first five years in the league. Spielman is a pretty good talent evaluator so I do respect his football IQ and there’s no way he’s going to give up on a QB like that if he clearly doesn’t believe in him.

    In Jackson’s defense, he was pretty accurate for him last night but all the dump down stuff seemed like he had no confidence in being able to get the ball downfield in those small windows (which I don’t believe he can consistently do).

    Also, I don’t know of any team in the NFL with a better defensive line than the Vikings. I have so much respect and admiration for the abilities of Kevin Williams and Jared Allen that it’s sick. I may hate those guys as football players b/c they play for the Vikes, but I know greatness when I see it and those guys are good. For our guys to get beat up front by them it’s one thing, but I don’t see us getting beat like that when we play most other teams who won’t have as good of a defensive line.

    bobbya – that’s why I asked about Carpenter b/c I admitted that I didn’t see/focus on a majority of his snaps. It’s just the ones I watched were less than impressive. And I’m not surprised that a guy as big and talented as him had some pancakes.

  22. And, yes, Jackson was running for his life too often as well. There’s no denying that. He’s simply getting what Seahawk QBs have been getting for a half decade. At least now we can tell our OL is headed in the right direction with respect to young talent, but it’s not going to change overnight. I have full confidence that the line will get there though.

  23. devisscher says:

    I just rewatched the first half. Only watched Carpenter.

    He gave up 3 QB pressures in the first half before the 2 minute drive. First one was on a screen pass. There were 2 linemen tackling Jackson when Forsett turned around for the pass. The play didn’t look good from the start.
    Second pressure was on the swing pass to Lynch. DE got to QB just when he released.
    3rd was on a Jackson scramble.

    But Carpenter looked lost the first plays of that 2 minute drive. Don’t know why.

    People here are imo overreacting to the offensive line play. A lot of the pressure came from guys that came unblocked. I’m not worried about that, it’s still preseason.
    What I did see is that Jackson doesn’t bother to step into his throw. Even when he has a pocket. I think that says enough about a QB that is in his 6th (?) year

  24. Dukeshire says:

    excile – That ball to Golden was in front of him and went right through his hands. He had enough time to turn and face his entire body toward the ball. And in traffic? You’re not going to get more open on a spot route 7 yards over the middle. Of course there was “traffic”. (All this says nothing of the fact he cut his route short. He ran it 6 and needed 7 for the first.)

    And you’ve closed the book on Rice’s per yard receptions after on half of his first pre-season game. That’s reasonable…

  25. PC and company should swap T-jack and Whitehurst next week. Let Charlie run with the first unti and T-jack the 2nd. Then let’s compare their performance. It would be interesting to see how they wouldd do and how it would compare to last night.

    Alternatively, let the swap series to series next week. Not the best for continuity but it would let PC see how they compare given the same protections and players around them.

  26. Now we know why the didn’t go after Hass, he would of got murdered out there. My question, is why didn’t Pete or T. Joke start callin’ some hot routes to combat all the pressure comin’. The fact that so much emphasis has been put on the running game scares the shit out of me since we run it four times in a row from the 2 and turned in over on downs. WTF. When Okung comes back it will be a little better, but this is an extreme work in progress. Before I was thinkin’ that might be able to gel by the 5th or 6th week, but now I’m thinkin’ next year is the projected target. Give Charlie a chance with the 1’s this week and in the game, all the fans will be chantin’ his name by the home opener anyways, might as well see what he does since they will be forced to play him or listen to Quest relentlessly chant CHARLIE, CHARLIE. But seriously, T. Joke didn’t really have a chance last night. Is it on the coaching, not allowing T. Joke to switch it up when he saw pressure coming, or is it on his own ass for not recognizing it, even though it was coming on every down. I’m thinking it was a combination of both which also scares the shit out of me.

  27. Skavage, I too wish Carroll would try swapping Charlie and Tavaris for the first-second halves. Won’t happen, but it would be good to see how Charlie would have handled that mess of an O line in the first half, and how Jackson would have handled leading the scrubs against the scrubs in the second half. I would be nice just to see Jackson get the chance to get into a rhythm.

    But I’m guessing what we will instead see is two more horrendous preseason games in which our O linemen and QB are all expected to survive repeated arse-kickings as part of their training.

    I just have to hope that opening day, complete with game planning and more experienced rookies, will bear no resemblance to this preseason mess.

  28. I wasn’t just complaining about Carpenter’s pass protection skills. If you want an example of a really bad O line performance, just look back at the four running plays Seattle ran from the Vikings 2-yard line. Unger, Moffitt, and Carpenter were all destroyed four plays in a row. That inability to run block is what really disappointed me.

    I wouldn’t want to be an O lineman in Tom Cable’s training room this week. It could get hot in there.

  29. I believe the article by Art Theil says it best….. here it is again….

  30. “Thiel” …… sorry

  31. Yes, That Art Thiel article nails it pretty well.

  32. HawkyHann says:

    Dukeshire- if he does not improve on his 7-9 record, he’ll be on watch. I think he’ll be back next year, unless they win like 4 or 5 games. He makes serious money amongst NFL head coaches. This is big business and he needs to win. Bottom line. Rebuilding or not. I think the days of giving coaches multiple years to do something are gone.

    Schneider is solid in the front office. Cable is more than capable of being the coach. Plus he’s a local boy. Now, I’m a PC fan. I like what he and John have done. I want them to succeed but he’s under the microscope and needs to be mindful of that. CLink, VMAC, 12th man. Paul Allen wants success now. So, fire T Jax because that is one horrible decision he’ll have to own. Especially when it gets ugly because it will.

  33. Dukeshire says:

    Interesting. I think he’s got quite a bit more rope than that before he’s on any watch, as it were, regardless of results. But you’re right, he’s paid for results.

  34. Duke – better have another look. The ball is to the backside and high. With Tate right in front if that was the best he could do … receivers won’t get anymore open.–TD-vs-Seattle/490c3f61-00e8-43da-b879-2d60a8dd90c2

    The book is not closed on a 16 yard ave per for Rice. But I’ll make a wager if you wish. Bet that combo last night at the book leaving dinner and they cost me $25

  35. HawkyHann says:

    The verdict is still out on whether he can be succesful in the NFL. No doubt , he’s a self branding machine, and I’ve be on board from day 1. But is he all about his personal brand or the Seattle Seahawks. If the Seahawks suck, his end of the year assesment could get interesting. Lousy economy, low morale, ticket sales go down, no playoff games to host. I He’s the guy who took Golden Tate over Colt McCoy. These type of decisions will not be overlooked.

    I want everything to be fine and hopefully it will. This T Jax decision is HUGE. He better be right or else we could easily go 0-4, and the stress will start building each week…

  36. I very much doubt that any decisions will be made regarding Tavaris Jackson or Charile Whitehurst until Tavaris gets at least 3 or 4 or 5 games under his belt as a starter in regular season games.

    Seems a waste of breath to manufacture a QB controversy when Jackson won’t even have been fully evaluated until October rolls around. Coach knows who his starters are for now, and that’s not based on last nights scrimmage, its based on three weeks of practice he supervised and filmed. The only things that get decided from preseason game 2 involve which 2nd and 3rd string players deserve another look before being cut.

    Tavaris will start the regular season and then will begin his evaluation. If he manages to stink it up for half a season then Whitehurst will get his chance. There won’t be any more controversy to it than that. And three weeks from now no one will ever remember what happened in preseason.

  37. Dukeshire says:

    excile – I’m not claiming it was anything close to a perfect pass. Jackson, with that window, ought to have hit Tate in the face with it. (As he nearly did with the first play from scrimmage. That would have been a very nice grab with the defender hanging all over him, granted. But of course, the ball deflected of off Tate’s hand like it was made of steel.) But Tate, at the “spot” (again a yard short of where he ought to have been) had time to turn his body and face the ball, get his hands (both of them) up and in front of him, only to have it whistle right through. That ball has to be caught. There aren’t going to be “perfect” throws every time in any league and if that’s what’s necessary for Tate to be successful, he will fail.

    That pick 6, in my opinion, is 100% on Tate. Not a perfect pass but not a difficult catch. One that has to be made. (Again, not that it would have picked up the first. And to be honest, I’d bet Carroll was more angry about that. Tate still can’t run an accurate route? Dropping the ball is a physical mistake. They happen. But not knowing where the 1st down marker is? Mental and absolutely no excuse for that.)

    As for Rice / Jackson; what do you mean you “bet that combo”? What prop did you get down on? In a preseason game. Their first game action together here (and only second in 3 years). With a very inexperienced o-line vs an established d-line. That’s not my fault. lol. Think it through…

  38. Soggybuc says:

    Three weeks from now all we will remember is making Alex Smith look good for his home opener.
    I’m an optimist but it’s clear it will be week 7 after the bye before these guys will be ready to show us what they can do.

  39. Dukeshire says:

    Soggy – I think that’s fair. As I’ve said, a part of the excitement of this season for me is to watch the line in particular, develop from where they are Sept 11th to where they are the end of October and into the second half. There will be days like last night, but that’s part of the process for good or ill.

  40. Duke – thinking those two (Rice / TJ) would perform against a team they had practiced against in the past.. yeah I bet them or the entire team. Why would it have anything to do with you? But, of coarse, they failed as did the rest of them Carroll Hawks.

    As far as the pass to Tate. TJ was looking at the TE (Miller?) who was open for the first down. For some reason he came back to Tate who was in traffic. The DT may have been in the way. Still. TJ made that a difficult pass to catch and it should have been on the money under the circumstance, up close no pressure.

  41. Dukeshire says:

    excile – He never once looked Miller’s way. He delivered the ball long before Miller was even out of his break. And I agree that it wasn’t a perfect pass, but when a ball sails through a receiver’s hands, I’m not blaming the QB.

    It has to do with me because you presume to hold me to the 16 YPC and bet on it. Only to bring it up with a personal wager. lol.

  42. Without view of his eyes I can’t be sure but it looked like he was looking at the TE. Otherwise he should have delivered that ball just out of Tate’s break. What was the need for him to run up short and stop if he was following him from the snap.
    Bears playoff early 1st qrt. WR Stockley slipped and Hass miss fired ahead of him. Same play, no.

    In another thread you claimed to see no reason why they would not continue on the 16 ypc. book is open.. LOL

  43. Dukeshire says:

    excile – You’ve posted two links of that play, it’s surprising you don’t notice Miller is in the slot split left. No one needs to see Jackson’s eyes to realize his head never looks left and to an outside breaking Miller.

    “A fool and his money are soon parted.” I’m sure this expression is one you are intimately familiar. If you go back and re-read the the entirety of those posts, you’ll realize the context regards Jackson and Rice, not the construct of the Seattle’s o-line. That said, I accept your bet. I will take Rice’s YPC, after the bye week, with Jackson as QB. And to that end, I offer 2-1. Put up or shut up, son. I’m sure Eric will be happy to forward my email to you so we can hash out the particulars.

  44. yellaman says:

    excile Tate F’d up the play so get over it. I’m not saying TJ is the greatest Qb in Hawks history but we all know tate should have caught that ball so quit making excuses when even tate agreed it was his fault. CW looked good out there and maybe he should get a look at starting with the 1st team but don’t sit here on this blog and try to tell all of us hawk fans that Tate was not at fault on this play and maybe we need to start calling for tate to be considered a 2nd round bust. He can’t run proper routes ( only route he knows is a fade) and if you want to be a big time WR in this league you got to make plays which he hasn’t done so in his career. IMO

  45. “not the construct of the Seattle’s o-line”

    WTF arer you talking about. I throw up some 80 catches if Rice and TJ hit on 5 receptions a game and YOU ran all over with that hypothetical in another thread. Stating 16 YPC and year total. Now it is after the buy. Buy some flip flops and get over yourself, pal.

    Slot, whatever, I still believe he was looking left at Miller before dumping it short to Tate. Whether you like that or not.

    yellaman – Tate didn’t make an outstanding catch on a pathetic pass from such a short distance. And some don’t understand why guys like Moss wouldn’t cross the middle. Cause they don’t like being hung out. Ever see Brady leave Welker or others reaching helpless with defenders closing in?

  46. bye week not buy.

  47. About that pick-six pass from TJ to Tate. There’s four variables to launching a football accurately to a receiver: timing, horizontal angle, vertical angle, and velocity. Getting the variables to work out together is what QBs are paid to do unless they’re deliberately throwing the ball away or spiking it. TJ is known for having a poor QB rating both when he is being blitzed and when under pressure. (He’s been worse when blitzed than when actually pressured). TJ was known in MIN for accuracy problems in those conditions. On that pass to Tate TJ wasn’t pressured but threw slightly behind Tate. If TJ continued leading Tate on the route he was running TJ would have thrown it directly on a path toward a defender. That defender could have jumped Tate’s route and gone for a pick six a little quicker than what he ended up doing anyway. Timing was good and the horizontal angle was within tolerence for a catchable pass. The vertical angle was within tolerence for a catchable pass and the velocity was within tolerence for a catchable pass. But when 3 of the 4 variables are near the limit of being a catchable pass the difficulty of making that catch increases exponentially. Tate has been known for not dropping catchable passes. When TJ reduces the number of variables that are close to catchable limits to one or two, that catch will be made and all will be well. All he has to do was either lower the elevation of that pass, or take a little mustard off it and SEA would have continued that drive, and if the run game was good enough to drive into the end zone, SEA probably would have won that exhibition game. It’s all good. They’re just not up to near potential.

  48. It is discouraging to read many of the comments here. Expecting high level play out of rookies and teammates who barely know each other is not realistic. If I remember correctly, Mora’s preseason was pretty good and look where that went.
    Yes, it is frustrating as a fan to have the team be struggling, but a…hang them all including the coach… attitude does nothing but increase your risk of hypertension and stroke.
    Some of you are the voice of reason and others sound like politicians running for election against the team. Relax and be a fan, not an armchair expert. Football is fun, not life or death.

  49. yellaman says:

    your argument for Tate is pathetic this guy is a terrible WR and shouldn’t have been drafted by the hawks. He has hands of stone, can’t run a proper route and your agrument is the pass was off. The pass is not always going to be right in your chest ( which is the only way Tate can catch a pass) Why don’t you start your on blog call Tate for #1WR. com. You obviously have a man crush on Tate and probably was one of his buddies who was with him when he stole Top Pot donuts in Bellevue LOL

    Also Tate was standing still waiting for the pass so how can you be thowing behind someone who is looking right at you. The throw was not on the numbers but it was in his hands so make the freakin catch Tate!!!!

  50. No, it ain’t life or death but the N-F-L (Not For Long) baby, considered a business by most. Those owners thru front office personnel are expected to put a competitive PRODUCT on the taxpayers STADIUM football field. I remember the excitement reading “ground was broken” for the Kingdome. Being from the Tri-Cities I was around from the inception of the Seahawks. Those first years as a fan were grueling watching Jim Zorn scramble accompanied by the gadget play calls of HC Jack Patera.

    1980 saw a turn of page for the upstart Seahawks. Dave Krieg walked on having not been drafted. 1983 Seahawks hired HC Chuck Knox who inheriting a formidable defense including linemen Green, Nash, Bryant backed up by all world SS Kenny Easley drafted 1-8 in ‘81. Knox immediately went to the film room. After several days studying tape he emerged with this conclusion; the OL needed bolstering along with the inclusion of a premier RB. Knox in his first draft with the ‘83 Seahawks set sights on Penn ST RB Curt Warner or so it would seem.

    Before the draft John Elway told the Colts he would not play for them but they selected him first (1-1) overall anyway. Elway was then traded to the Bronco. Rams selected Eric Dickerson second after a trade with the Oilers. Rams used their 1-3, 4-4 and 4-13 to move up one spot. The Oilers then traded again with the Seahawks for Knox 1-9, 2-14 and 3-13. Can’t imagine that Knox hadn’t targeted Dickerson. Reminded of the 1993 drafting of 1-2 Rick Mirer or “Sloppy Seconds” after Patriots selected Drew Bledsoe 1-1.

    Now bouncing me back to conception. Ever heard the pre draft story of Tony Dorsett found HERE.

    Krieg released. Behring drafts McGwire when Knox wanted Favre. Testiverde at the goal. SB XL officiating. Futch and the “Poison Pill“.
    And now ~ BIG HASS ~ a Titan !! left me cheering the Vikes garbage!

    Yeah! I’m a ’12th man’ bitter fan

    Akmac63 – see what you’ve done. Nearly in cardiac arrest, here.

  51. Yeller – just not an advocate of T J.

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