Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Roy Lewis a shutdown corner?

Post by Eric Williams on June 24, 2011 at 9:05 am with 81 Comments »
June 24, 2011 9:05 am
Seattle Seahawks' Roy Lewis, right, against Arizona Cardinals' Trumaine McBride, left, during an NFL football game Sunday, Nov. 14, 2010, in Glendale, Ariz. (AP Photo/Paul Connors)

Among a list of some of the top cornerbacks in the NFL, including Nnamdi Asomugha, Darrelle Revis, Asante Samuel and Tramon Williams, one surprise name was on the list – Seattle Seahawks defensive back Roy Lewis.

The University of Washington product made NFL.com’s list of cornerbacks who gave up the lowest number of completions last year. To make the list, players had to have at least 30 attempts go their way.

Lewis, who played mostly on slot receivers on third down and obvious passing situations, finished with a 43.3 opponent completion percentage, sixth overall on the list.

Revis topped the list at 33.9 percent, followed by Asomugha, Oakland’s Stanford Routt (39.4), Kansas City’s Brandon Carr (39.8) and Oakland’s Chris Johnson (40.5).

Matt Williamson of Scouts Inc. breaks down the Seahawks wide receivers. Williamson still has his doubts with Mike Williams being a top receiving option, but like Ben Obomanu’s ability to high-point the football.

Clare Farnsworth of Seahawks.com provides details on Qwest Field being renamed CenturyLink Field, which became official during a ceremony at Seahawks Stadium on Thursday. CenturyLink picked up the five-year option with the Seahawks, extending the deal until 2019. Farnsworth also runs through his top five moments at Qwest.

Dan Arkush of Pro Football Weekly provides a list of the top 40 players in the NFC West. Leon Washington is the top-rated Seahawks at No. 11, followed by Earl Thomas (13), Russell Okung (17), David Hawthorne (21), Chris Clemons (23), Brandon Mebane (25), Mike Williams (27), Marshawn Lynch (29), Matt Hasselbeck (30), Red Bryant (32), Lofa Tatupu (37) and Raheem Brock (40).

San Francisco linebacker Patrick Willis tops the list, followed by Arizona receiver Larry Fitzgerald and St. Louis running back Steven Jackson.

Sports Illustrated’s Joe Posnanski reviews his top 14 most dominant performances in sports history. It’s definitely worth a read.

Jon Saraceno of USA Today writes about the forgotten causalities of the NFL lockout – undrafted rookie free agents.

If you looking for a good chuckle this morning, check out Peyton and Eli Manning’s police spoof “Football Cops” in the video below.

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  1. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I remember that game on monday night. I thought there was something wrong with Easley the way he let Bo Jackson fly right by him like he was shot out of a cannon! Then I realized that there was nothing wrong with Easley at all. It was Bo Jackson, the most explosive player in the history of the NFL! And another great player not in the HOF.
    There should be a place other then the HOF to recognize actually the best players of all time.
    If they were to poll all the head coaches in the history of the NFL and asked them what players they would choose to be on their all time best team I would bet that Easley and Bo Jackson would be on that team.

  2. Dukeshire says:

    Football Cops? What the hell was that?! Lol. Puns are funny…

    I’m surprised by the numbers on Lewis. I was really impressed with him and knew he was improving but not to that degree. Really good.

  3. I was happy with Lewis last year, too. I agree about those numbers with him (impressive).

    In no way, shape, or form does it excuse trading a young, good player (Wilson) for some crappy 5th round pick (as Wilson is 1,000 times better than Kelly Jennings and 50 times better than Trufant at this stage of his career… midget and all).

    Sometimes stats are lies, sometimes they make you more aware of something… I think with Lewis it’s more of the latter, as those of us who watched the games were pleasantly surprised by him (until he went out).

  4. Soggybuc says:

    Bobby I could be wrong but was not the extra pick in the 5th this year from that trade? if so you could say we traded Wilson for legree, i’ll take that any day.

  5. chuck_easton says:

    I would also take a trade of Wilson for the potential that Legree seems to have.

    I like Wilson but he is just too short for what PC wants at Corner. It is not for us to agree or disagree but it is the reality. PC wants a certain body type to play CB and WIlson just ‘ain’t it’.

    Since it is very likely that Jennings is most likely gone as well I think we can stop with the comparisons of Wilson to Jennings as well.

    The remaining CB’s currently on the roster (or rookies drafted) are all over 6 feet tall.

    It’s not Wilson’s fault he’s only 5’8″ but those are the breaks.

  6. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I will take that crappy 5th round pick LeGree over Wilson hands down!
    Time will tell though if LeGree really has it. I’m betting that he does.

  7. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Now I Know why actors are usually short. The Manning brothers look kind of dorky to me. lol.

  8. Film doesn’t do flattering things to the tall. Example Conan O’Brien.

  9. WTF? Everyone here is ready to annoint LeGree to Canton (overreaction, but you get the point) but nobody has said anthing about Richard Sherman (the guy that Mr. Happy and the Duke Boy thought were/are better than LeGree or they wouldn’t have taken him a couple of picks BEFORE LeGree was drafted). In no way would I take this guy over Wilson. I’ve only said this about 73 times before, but you can get by with a midget CB in the slot in the nickel if he’s great (which Wilson is… and Lewis seems to have a knack for, too). And if Lewis is so good, which he may be if we base things on the numbers on Eric’s link (I’m happy w/him), he could have been a starter and everybodys whipping boy, Kelly Jennings, and Jennings could have sat the pine). This is NOTHING against Lewis… and I have no problem with comPete going for guys to fit his system in his first year… but does anyone remember the Bears game? the ball that Babs dropped for a TD around the end zone may have been returned 100 yards by Wilson and then who knows? If you’re mad that we won the Saints game, you don’t care about this. But if you wanted to win the Saints game (and Bears game) then you may want to rethink this (think momentum and how important that is in an NFL game). In no way am I saying that Wilson would have been playing where Babs would have played (and dropped the pick-6) where Wilson may have been… and, hell, maybe we lose the Saints game with Wilson?)… you never know… but if you’re willing to gamble on lesser talent last year for Richard Sherman this year (does anyone in their right mind think we would have taken LeGree OVER Sherman if we’d just had 1 pick in the late 5th?)… If comPete and/or the Duke Boy would have wanted LeGree over Sherman, they would have taken him in the earliest spot possible. Just sayin’

  10. SpellStitchedHawk says:

    Wilson only had 1 year left on his contract and is now a free agent. We can still get him back at the same price as if we had kept him on the team. Think of it as getting LeGree on a long term contract for 1 year of Wilson’s use.

  11. Josh Wilson will only start next year due to injury. The same goes with Darryl Tapp.

    For some reason, Seahawk fans get all worked up over 2 players who only played well against bad Rams teams.

  12. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I’m very high on Sherman. As much so as LeGree. Sherman is just beggining to tap in on his potential, having played wr his first two years at Stanford when he lead the team in receiving, Sherman could be the steal of the draft for us.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ycn-7679270

  13. Soggybuc says:

    We’ll never know for sure but it is very possible that when the Ravens called to see if we would move a corner we offered them Jennings first.
    Then after the Ravens FO stopped laughing and pick themselves off the floor we went fine how about Wilson?
    Either way they both were going to be moved but they could only afford to move one of them last year.

  14. Dukeshire says:

    I’m actually more excited and interested to see Maxwell than Sherman. I’m drawn to defenders who play angry and Maxwell has hate in his heart for receivers. Lol.

    Carroll unloaded Wilson because he didn’t fit the profile, simple as that. It really had little to do with anything else, IMO. Although I get a kick out of someone who relentlessly defends Obomanu (who I too like) but criticizes Pistol for only having good games against a bottom feeder. That’s the definition of myopic. Wilson made the most out of every opportunity, not unlike Obo. To knock one while defending another is absurd, IMO.

  15. Dukeshire says:

    Soggy – I agree with that. Physically, Jennings fits the typical Carroll mold. But there is / was little chance the secondary would be totally revamped after being one of the leafue’s worst for several seasons.

  16. chuck_easton says:

    BobbyK,

    You and I are definitely not going to agree about Wilson except to say that he’s a good slot CB.

    I still say the fact is there is a sign hanging on the door at VMAC that clearly states “Any CB under 6′ need not apply… (well unless you can measure 5’11” and we might consider you an exception)”

    Like it or not that would appear to be the new reality.

  17. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I think Maxwell was a good pick up too. If he doesn’t make it at corner then they can switch him over to safety.
    He’s tough and versatile.

    http://www.draftnasty.com/index.php?cID=3921

  18. Dukeshire says:

    Nice link. Hadn’t seen that interview.

    Has anyone else noticed that no matter what position or what side of the line, the players Carroll / Schneider have taken for two drafts now, the word physical comes up time and time again? Maybe that’s just a buzz word in vogue right now around the league, I don’t know. But I’ve never heard it so much in my Seahawk life as I have the past two drafts with the players they’ve chosen. And I love it!

  19. If LeGree has 3 good/solid years, people around here are going to hope that he’s traded for a 5th round pick the following year b/c he’s going to be a FA and we may not resign him, right? And then we’re going to kiss the butt of that drafted player, right? Lets just always hope we draft a solid player (in the 2nd round) and then trade him after three years, right? All I know is that we drafted a guy in the 2nd round 4 years ago who turned out to be a good 2nd round pick. That’s what we hope for, right? Or should we continually trade former 2nd round picks for unproven 5th rounders? Especially when they enter their prime years. That would be smart (or something). Hell. Lets trade Unger for a 5th in ’13 and then Tate for a 5th in ’15. That’d be “smart.”

    pabs – don’t throw your bullsh!t Tapp/Wilson stuff my way. Although I thought Tapp was okay, I never, in any way, got all hyped up about that as I did the moronic Wilson trade. Anyone else want to suck comPete and the Duke’s balls… argue about drafting EJ Wilson… let me see that ammo… sure, you win some – you lose some (that’s okay — nobody ever hits on all their picks — nobody), but at least realize critical thinking is okay sometimes instead of blindlessly following someone who has never won anything significant at the NFL level (meaning Super Bowls). I remember people “blindlessly” following/defending Ruskell a few years ago, too (then equally turning on him… not all of you… but some who are “all in” nowdays… and, no, that’s not in response to any of you who have posted since my last post). Yes. I like the direction that we’re headed in with comPete and his sidekick, but I’m not going to kiss their ass on every move. I can respect that comPete has a philosophy that chuck alluded to with respect to Wilson being too small, but I also know that the good/great coaches can take something that doesn’t fit their blueprint (Wilson being “too” small and make them part of their philosophy, especially as a nickel… kind of like he had already done w/Big Red).

    We’ll agree to disagree. And in 3 years when some hope Moffitt gets traded for a 5th/6th round pick (or Carpenter for a 3rd or 4th rounder) because he’s going to potentially make too much on the open market… we can have this “fun” conversation again…

  20. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I was upset that Wilson was traded for a 5th, and I don’t think a 5 was fair compensation for Wilson, however as it turned out I was very happy to have LeGree picked with that #5.
    With that being said overall Caroll and Schneider has done a great job so far of turning over this roster with bigger better talent.
    They are not going to nail it everytime.

  21. Soggybuc says:

    Bobby you should very well know the worst thing a team can do is marry itself to any player based on draft position. if he doesnt fit your system (Josh) or sucks (lo-jack) you move on or even better trade.
    this is doubly true when a new regime comes in. had not the trade offer emerged I have no doubt he would have made the 53 and seen playing time and then allowed to leave via FA at the expense of say Pinkard. but draft picks are gold sometimes so I view it as a good move.
    And face it, John loves draft picks even more than Pete loves the Beach Boys.

    Good link Georgia. I had not looked at Maxwell closely but damn 4.46/40 10’4″ broad jump and 24 reps on the bench. kids pretty beastly.

  22. chuck_easton says:

    BobbyK,

    I think soggy said it best. Getting a 5th for Wilson was a good thing not necessarily because that’s what he may have been worth but because something is better than nothing. Wilson would have beena FA this year ad it’s pretty clear he isn’t a PC prototypical CB. He’s too short for what this team wants it’s CBs to be.

    Nobody is challenging your position about the guy’s skills. He just doesn’t fit what ComPete wants. I’m sure if they could have gotten something better for Jennings last year they may have considered trading Jennings and letting Wilson walk this year.

    Either way neither Wilson nor Jennings were likelyto be Seahawks this season so the team traded the guy with trade value and let the guy with lesser value walk.

    Now if your argument is they didn’t get enough for him you would have a point. But they got what the market would give.

    Wilson was almost certainly NOT going to be on this team this year.

    So your comparison of Carpenter and Moffit doesn’t hold water because they are both PC guys and will be re-signed.

    Yes, we know you LOVE Wilson but the team didn’t want him. Size was the issue not ability.

    This coming from a guy that was always told I was too small to play so I have a soft spot for the ‘little guy’ that makes it in spite of being vertically challenged.

  23. If Josh Wilson were an undrafted free agent or a 2nd round pick (which he was), he is/was a great nickel CB who could cover well, was great on the blitz from that position, and had the knack to be a playmaker from that position. A nickel CB is basically a starter on NFL defenses today. I hate to think we would have traded a guy like Darrell Green in his prime for a 3rd round pick because he was too small (not that Wilson is nearly as good as the Hall of Fame Green… he’s not, but he’s dang good in his important role).

    What’s up with all the talk about Schneider wanting picks so badly? It seems like we’re trading more away than we get. We traded a pick for Whitehurst (and traded down in a separate round). We traded two picks for Lynch. We traded two picks for Leon Washington. We got, then lost a pick in the separate LoJack/Balmer deals. We traded a pick for Polumbus. Although we did get picks for Wilson/Sims/Tapp/ (in addition to Clemons – good trade). So far, that’s getting 4 picks and trading 7 picks. We did get 1 extra pick in the deal with the Lions to trade our 2nd rounder this past year. I’m not saying that a trade like sending a 5th and 7th for a steal like Washington wasn’t worth it (it obviously was and we’re all happy about it), all I’m saying is that’s there’s always comments about how comPete and Bo Duke love to stockpile picks — yet in reality, they trade more picks away than they get back (granted, most of these picks we’re talking about aren’t in the top three rounds… unless we’re talking about Whitehurst and sending a 3rd and then moving down in the 2nd). It’s just funny. All of us want picks but to me, “stockpiling” picks is usually keeping all or most of your own and then getting them from other teams, too. Kind of like what the Patriots do. They stockpile picks. The Browns have stockpiled picks thanks to the Julio Jones trade (although they have traded some back in other deals). We have not stockpiled anything (unless you count that we’re without a 4th or 5th rounder for next year). In no way am I saying that I’m not happy with comPete and the Duke around here (I am!), I’m just saying that this “stockpiling” of picks that we often read from Insider post to Insider post is really a fallacy. There’s a difference between stockpiling picks and using the picks you have wisely. I think we’re on the road to being a team that uses its picks wisely. That’s a good thing. The EJ Wilson pick was not the norm last year, the norm was a stud LT, FS, and I love Tate AND Thurmond moving forward. That 4 good/great starting caliber players for the future, IMO. Even if a guy like Chancellor doesn’t start, he’s looking like he’s going to be a good/decent situational type of player who helps on ST (i.e. an asset). Same with some others… We’re all going to look back on the ’10 draft and say, “Wow. What a great draft.” That’s a huge stepping stone for us and, yes, we seem to be in capable hands (just not in hands of people who “stockpile” picks… at least not yet). I’m sure there may be a couple of trades that I have forgotten about so feel free to alter my math numbers… but I think you’ll find that we’ve still traded more in picks/players than we’ve received. This isn’t meant to turn into a heated debate… I’m just trying to spark thinking from another perspective. If I said something dumb like “I like comPete” and that’s it… that’s not really sparking any new conversation around here and we’re in a pretty boring time of the year if we want to talk about anything.

    For the record, I’ll take comPete and Bo and them trading Wilson away… I’ll take that total package over another year of keeping Wilson and Ruskell and Mora… lol

  24. chuck – I understand/respect your point. I still disagree that comPete could have stockpiled (word of the day) a bunch of tall CBs and not have had room for one midget in the slot. I had already ranted on this long previous thread before reading yours:)

    How cool would it be if comPete signs Wilson in free agency and makes him our nickel and he has 5 INTs (2 for TDs) and 4 sacks in ’12? Pipe dream, I know.

  25. Dukeshire says:

    I love Wilson too, as most here probably know. Hell, I’ve got his jersey hanging in my closet. But it’s not terribly hard to understand why they traded him, now. As Chuck said, his play was not the issue, he simply doesn’t fit into the team’s new direction. Simply but; bigger.

    Anyway, on a different note, has anyone seen this story about Greg Little’s parking ticket situation at UNC? Lol.

    http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Browns-rookie-Greg-Little-got-93-parking-tickets-at-UNC.html

  26. Where is the NCAA’s investigation of UNC’s football program for not collecting fines from their players? Sounds like all their players should lose their scolarships and they should be banned from bowl games for a few years. Sadly not funny. . .

  27. Dukeshire says:

    They are already under investigation for 9 major infractions. Regardless, the football program isn’t responsible for collecting parking ticket fines, universities have in place mechanisms for collecting those types of fines. Some of which include not releasing transcripts or allowing students to graduate or collect their diplomas. In Little’s case however, neither of those would seem to be relevant.

  28. I keep reading on this board they traded Wilson away solely because he wasn’t physical enough or tall enough to fit within their team. Yet, I look at the CBs on the Seahawks roster and they all seem to be 5’11 and 190 pounds or smaller.

    The reality is, they saw the chance to get a pick for a career backup who was an East Coast guy with 1 year left on his contract. That was a Bill Belichick type of move.

  29. Dukeshire says:

    Pab – That may be your reality but that’s not the truth. 5’11” 190 is the biggest corner on the roster and everyone else is smaller? You’re in a world all your own, my friend.

  30. Dukeshire says:

    To specify; Josh Wilson 5-9 192

    Brown, Marcus 6-0 190
    Jennings, Kelly 5-11 180
    Lewis, Roy 5-10 190
    Maxwell, Byron 6-1 207
    Pinkard, Josh 6-1 218
    Sherman, Richard 6-3 195
    Trufant, Marcus 5-11 197
    Thurmond, Walter 5-11 190
    Cox, Kennard 6-0 191
    Browner, Brandon 6-4 221

    “…5’11” and smaller.” Only one player fills that profile, Roy Lewis. Including rookies, I count 6 corners above 6′.

  31. Dukeshire says:

    SandpointHawk – Interesting links. Thanks. I especially found the Clayton salary cap link interesting.

  32. Duke – I read your link only after I posted (mistake). Hadn’t heard of NC’s other stuff before, was still curious about the Ohio State stuff. How many years will these programs be under scruiteny? ‘Till after all these current kids graduate and new recruits who hadn’t been around when things happened will have to forfeit their scholarships and play for a team that can’t go to any bowl games. I’d really hate the NCAA if I were a college coach. Too bad they can’t cryo-suspend their players between practices and thaw them out for games, too.

    SEA’s secondary wasn’t good at pass pro last season. SEA’s pass pro ranked 29th last season by Football Outsiders (FO). Vs the opponent’s #1 WR SEA ranked 14th, they were 32nd vs the #2 WR, 28th vs the #3 WR (Lewis?) 10th vs TEs, and 29th vs RB receptions. Among SEA’s CBs Jennings had the best pass-pro stats (13 PDs), Tru had 8, Thurmond 7, Lewis 4, and Cox 2 (Brown and Pinkard had no stats).

    Meanwhile Josh Wilson had the best stats for a CB on BAL’s roster last season (14 PDs and 3 picks, 1 for TD). Josh beat out the 2-3 inch taller Fabian Washington as BAL’s starting RCB. Josh also did some return duty but BAL’s LCB got the most of those opportunities. BAL’s pass D ranked 6th overall (8th vs the #1 WR, 17th vs the #2 WR, 2nd vs the #3 WR, 2nd vs TEs, and 12th vs RBs receiving.

    About bigger CBs, in ’07 after GB drubbed SEA @ Lambeau 42-20 in the divisional round and NYG went to Lambeau, I remember one pass play in that game how D.Driver was facing press coverage by a smaller GB CB and at the snap Driver grabbed the CBs wrist and pulled the CB behind him and it impelled Driver out past the LOS really quick. Driver caught the ball for a big play. I know there’s other ways and means of beating press coverage for bigger CBs, but that one worked really well for beating a smaller CB. Other than that Josh was good at shedding WR blocks and making solid tackles. I don’t remember Josh ever having as hard a time as KJ occasionally had(?)

  33. hopefully this stat boosts his confidence and he becomes a sam shields.

  34. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Wilson is gone! Stop crying over spilt milk! It is due time to purge us of the Liliputians. That goes for every position! Earl Thomas and Mebane as an exception!

  35. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Klmoo8- What are you really trying to say?

  36. Duke – you might as well find some camp bodies and throw them on your list also. The top 4 CBs last year were all under 6 feet and this could very well be the case this year depending on Jennings.

  37. GeorgiaHawk says:

    pabulwal- As a rule I will take 5-11 to 6 ft over 5-9 any day so what is your point?

  38. Soggybuc says:

    Lets not over blow Josh’s numbers as making him an elite corner. he is a good player who went to what was an already top 5 D and was a nice addition for them in a position they were very thin at due to injuries.
    Injury was the only reason they made the trade and not because Josh was a shutdown corner that was going to make them a contender. pretty easy to look good playing behind that front 7

    Josh was one of favorite Hawks and i am still a fan of him personally. he’s a good guy. and if he picks off a pass from worthlessberger or Sancheeze for a TD to seal the AFC championship next year no one will be cheering harder than I.

  39. Dukeshire says:

    Pab – You said; “…Yet, I look at the CBs on the Seahawks roster and they all seem to be 5’11 and 190 pounds or smaller.”

    You’re wrong. Period. No matter how you try and spin it after the fact.

  40. My, my, I haven’t been in here in awhile and I thought it would be quiet, but you guys are brawlin! lol! I hope our new DBs hit as hard as you guys do!

    Seriously, one of the absolute best things to watch this summer (assuming lockout is ending) will be Sherman, Maxwell, and Legree competing for spots on the roster. That’s a lot of speed and agression about to be added to our backfield. Can’t wait.

  41. I have empathy for whay BobbyK is saying! We all know the reasons for Carrolls/Schneiders decision on Wilson.

    But the truth is, good teams find a way to get their best players on the field – hands down, Wilson would have been our best CB last year if he would have stayed! Yep, I think we all knew Trufant was on the down slope even before last season.

    In summation, I would have a better opinion of Carrolls coaching if he had kept Wilson in the slot and found a way to get him on the field, I would have preferred a CB that would have made it tough on the opposing WR’s than the passive/inexperienced ones we fielded last year. Maybe we would have had a few less blowout losses and a bit more respect around the legue because of it!

    You don’t win SuperBowls by trading your best players and to me, Wilson had more fight (competition) in him than just about any other player on our roster before the trade!

  42. Duke you make things so literal to spin your argument you basically make the other guy look like an idiot. Its impossible to type every detail on a post without writing a book.

    Do you really think I care about anything other than then the top 4 CBs, especially before the season when they carry 10 guys that don’t make the team? You are basically citing guys who won’t be on the team come September, or whenever the season starts.

    I’ll be willing to take advantage of your irrational love or hate of players again with a bet on Josh Wilson. He will only start over 50% of regular season games in 2011 due to injury of another CB.

  43. Dukeshire says:

    pabuwal – You said nothing about “the top 4″ or “their starting” or anything like that. You said “all”. That’s pretty specific, yet we’re to read that as though you meant something different. Yes, when someone makes a detailed point, I take it literally.

    To the larger point you seem to be missing; Carroll has a clear “profile” that his CBs are to fit, one which Wilson didn’t suit. Part scheme, part physical size. The fact you believe my point regarding Wilson in this thread, is anything other than that, is basically saying you are assigning your own interpretation to what I wrote rather than talking my comments at face value. You don’t have to read between the lines pab, I mean what I say (even when I’m wrong, I don’t pretend I was saying something else, I own it).

    As for your bet; if you want to bet he starts 50% or more regardless, I might be interested. But even then that’s somewhat unreasonable as his ideal position is nickel and that immediately limits starts.

  44. GeorgiaHawk says:

    And now for possibly an even more heated discussion than Wilson.

    Has Carroll misused Curry?

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6696370

  45. Lets say that Wilson would have been on the goal line in Chicago instead of Babs… lets say that Wilson catches the ball that Babs dropped… there was 100 yards of open field in front of him (and Wilson is fast)… What if the game was 7-7, instead of 14-0… What if the momentum turns and we win the game and are playing the following week (at Qwest) for a chance to go to the Super Bowl… all I know is that when Babs dropped that dang ball, all I kept thinking was if Wilson was supposed to have been there… I know, let it go… but winning that Bears game (or making it more competitive) would have been fun (of course, we would have had to get some stickum for the WRs, too). Would Wilson have been there? I don’t know. All I know is that having a philosophy and sticking to it is important, but doing a good job of playing the cards you’re dealt is equally as important. I believe in hard throwing closers. However, if I would have been dealt change-up man, Trevor Hoffman, I sure as heck would have kept him as my closer even though he didn’t perfectly fit my blueprint. We’ll all agree to disagree, so there’s no reason to reshash what we’ve already said a bunch of times, and nobody is going to get me to think otherwise that the Wilson trade wasn’t totally stupid.

  46. Dukeshire says:

    GeorgiaHawk – To be candid, I don’t have much use fro Matt Williamson’s views and that Curry piece is an example why; he blames Seattle for not allowing Curry to find his “niche” and that Sams in a 4-3s are not featured and easy to find. (Although he then says trying Curry in “unorthodox roles” failed. So, Seattle has in fact tried to find a different role for him.) If Curry is as talented as Williamson says, he ought to then excel in a position that can be easily filled, as Williamson says. He has not. Williamson acknowledges too that Curry’s recognition skills are only average, not a sure tackler and is lacking against the pass, all things a Will backer needs. He criticizes Curry’s pass rush ability so DE (Leo) doesn’t appear to be a reasonable option. Can Curry be trusted with the responsibility that comes with playing Mike and the defensive checks and pre-snap adjustments when “he needs to improve his mental approach to the game”?

    The fact is Seattle, under two head coaches, have tried multiple ways to improve Curry’s production, including; moving him back to Sam, above the TE where he excelled in college. Lessen his responsibilities by taking him of the field in passing situations. Try him as an interior DT and a DE in Bandit packages. And yet he’s failed to show any real impact at any of them. Blaming Seattle for not allowing Curry to find his “niche” is thoroughly inaccurate, IMO. They’ve moved him around plenty in order to find a spot for him to flourish (never mind the fact Curry has made it known he considers himself as only a LB).

  47. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Sometimes new coaches come in and tweak things too much when they don’t have to. Trading Wilson at that time for a 5 was a mistake, even if he didn’t fit their long range plans. I am willing to live with that as an exception to the overall progress of the team.
    I remember when Holmgrem came in and inherited a much more talented group than PC inherited, and that group helped him win the AFC west in his first year.
    After that it seemed like he was letting talented players go right and left. Why? I kept asking! Why would you want to get rid of all these talented players just because you didn’t draft them?
    It took Holmgren about another five years to rebuild the team after he purged it, and his record was the same as Ericksons record in the first five years.

    Holmgren had a plan and he stuck with it and he finally became successful with his plan.
    And at one point we were all on top of the world and feeling really good about our team with Holmgren in charge.

    I just hope it doesn’t take 5 or more years for Caroll.

  48. GeorgiaHawk says:

    “Carroll”

  49. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Dukeshire- So what you are saying is Curry has an attitude problem? Kind of like a Haynesworth, but on a smaller scale?
    It should be an interesting year with him.
    Will the light bulb finally come on? Will he be traded? will he be cut.

    I’m still hoping that the light bulb comes on.

  50. Dukeshire says:

    GeorgiaHawk – Attitude problem might be a little strong but I suppose I am saying that, to a degree. He has Tweeted several times (to paraphrase) that he’s not a DL and that he’s a LB. So to me, that sounds like a player that’s not open to accepting whatever role he asked to fill. So a comparison can be made to Haynesworth, if even on a minute scale. Curry does seem to complain about odd things, odd to me anyway; autograph sessions, the charter plane, day-before-game walk-throughs. Those sorts of things. And as I’ve said before, I hope he takes a big leap forward this year. I’d like nothing more than to be proven totally wrong about him even if my expectation of that happening is minimal.

  51. I would say everything exactly with respect to Curry that Duke already said (and I didn’t even have to write much…lol).

    “The Seahawks bear some blame for not allowing him to find his niche.”

    Part of the problem with Curry are tweats like were discussed last season when he complained about being a (strongside) linebacker (he insinuated this was his position and that’s where he wanted to be) and not a pass rusher or whatever. He needs to look in the mirror and bear a large part of the blame.

    I like the part where Willis and Curry’s physical skills are compared. They forgot to mention something that sets them apart (heart). And whereas one guy can wrap up, the other cannot. Comparing Curry to Willis is like comparing John Elway to Akili Smith (both sure had great physical skills though…lol).

  52. My take on Curry is that I think he’s an okay teammate (b/c of comments that Eric has made that players don’t dislike him or anything) but he’s never going to be a leader (especially by example).

    I have thought for a few years now that he should be groomed to be our Leo, but I have to admit how disappointed I was in him “rushing” the passer last year. After his rookie year, I remember thinking that his natural pass rush skills were almost off the charts. I was so impressed with him in that regard. And then last year happened and he looked so terrible when he did rush the QB. He seemed to run right at the tackle, try to bull rush him, it wouldn’t work, get stuck on the tackle, and stay there engaged until the play ended. I don’t get it. I’m so confused with that guy. How can I think after his rookie year that he’s got mega talent at rushing the QB and then the next year, he sucks at it. Weird.

  53. Curry’s stats improved from ’09 to ’10. SLBs aren’t required to do too much in PC’s 4-3 under, and PC’s already said that Curry will play the same position in ’11 as he did in ’10. The toilet seat on the Army invoice that’s listed at $4K isn’t to blame – it’s a good toilet seat that does it’s job, it’s just how the army ‘finds a way’ to make their budgets total. Blame the way the early drafted rookies got paid under the old CBA. Fix that and make rookie pay commensurate with performance. Curry’s in a tough spot, little wonder he seems a little wacky. He knows inside he shouldn’t be paid as much as he’s getting, but his egos been built up way beyong proportion (IMHO).

  54. Another Opinion Alert: Like BobbyK, I always wanted Curry to be tried at Leo. And I remember wondering the same thing about Curry’s pass rush – it was like he didn’t have any ‘moves’ that he could use to slip off or avoid blocks plus he never tried to do anything but run right at the blocker, like magnet and iron. There should be a school for continuing education classes for active NFL players taught by HoFers and should-be-HoFers (like Tez) during the off-season where players go to improve basic skills that teams don’t have time to teach during the season. Or like Red, find a great retired player to spend lots and lotsa time with to help learn new and hone his current skills.

    I’ve also wanted Locklear to be tried at LG after we lost Hutch. Never happened. Maybe shoulda.

  55. SandpointHawk says:

    Curry = Box of Rocks

  56. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Dukeshire- I never had checked any players tweets until you suggested it. I don’t know if I will do it again after looking at Currys. I hope they don’t let these guys tweet during practice and the games.

    BobbyK- Confused is a great word to describe the Curry situation. You couldn’t have said it better in one word!

    klm008-

    “Blame the way the early drafted rookies got paid under the old CBA. Fix that and make rookie pay commensurate with performance. Curry’s in a tough spot, little wonder he seems a little wacky. He knows inside he shouldn’t be paid as much as he’s getting, but his egos been built up way beyong proportion (IMHO).”

    Now that’s a view that makes alot of sense to me!

    Make them earn it before we crown them King!

  57. Duke – I am reading between the lines on Carroll’s reasoning on why they traded Wilson. I actually thought he was the most physical corner they had but also the biggest liability. None of the top 4 CBs on the roster are thought to be physical.

    There is no ambiguity on where you stand with him but I think the Front Office pretty much feels he is a stiff which is why they “gave” him away and spun it like they did the Ravens a favor.

    I also feel he is a stiff and no team will sign him to be a starter. Nickel CBs are a dime a dozen.

  58. Dukeshire says:

    It’s true, coach speak is full of innuendo and half truths. You are not a coach. You are more than capable of stating your opinions clearly and directly and generally you do. But when you present something as fact and do so specifically and are called on it as incorrect, just be straight up and own it. Telling people that’s not what you meant or to not take your statement of fact literally, is ridiculous.

  59. chuck_easton says:

    Pabuwal,

    I’ll call you out ( not in a bad way). You say you only care about the top 4 CB’s because they are the only ones that make the team.

    So, who do you think the top 4 CB’s are?

    Trufant 5’11”
    Thurmond 5’11”
    Lewis 5’10”

    Who’s the fourth? And don’t say Jennings because he’s a FA and may not even be re-signed.

  60. I used Jennings as the 4th CB for the lack of a better player and the uncertainty of the upcoming FA period. But he was on the team last year so the Front Office does not base CB decisions solely on height or “physicality” such as the Josh Wilson supporters would lead you to believe.

    Duke – I was arguing that last point as the main point. And to disprove this, you basically whipped out the size of a bunch of camp bodies when the roster is well above 53. These are players who will be lucky to make an NFL roster in the future, probably will never see game action and will certainly never start an NFL game. For what point? Because I used the word “all?” Using the word “all” doesn’t change the main point I was trying to make and It certainly doesn’t prove the point that Josh Wilson was traded solely based on size when they kept the least physical CB in the NFL as a starter who also plays like he is 5′ tall against tall WRs.

    There have been countless other posts I have made where you completely change around the meaning to make your point but in this specific case, you happen to focus on this one literally to make your point. This pick and choose generally happens when I state my opinions on one of the Duke favorites like Wilson, Tatupu, Tapp, etc.

  61. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Within the next few years our average cornerback height will be 6-1 or better.
    But really who cares whether our cbs are 5-11 or 6-2 as long as they can do their job!

  62. Dukeshire says:

    pabuwal – You must think I’m pretty god damn stupid. Your words are there for all to read. There is no ambiguity with what you said. Yet you are now chastising me for “twisting” what you wrote. I manipulated nothing. You were 100% wrong with your facts and you know it. And you are now changing your point, or at best, re-defining what you intended to say. Not that you car, but I’ve lost virtually all respect for you I may have ever had. Continued success with saying one thing and meaning another, only when it serves your agenda of course…

  63. Dukeshire says:

    *care*…

  64. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I think Palmer is the best NFL qb from USC,Which is really not saying much since USC has had the most qbs drafted into the NFL.
    Ochocinco/Alligator/ wrestler?What a circus in Cincinnati these days!

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8207a98c/article/ochocinco-palmer-means-business-with-tradeorretire-talk?module=News_CP

  65. Well, without debating the merits of an argument that is predicated on CBs 5 through 10 in June, I have one objective thing you will like –

    RECORD IN BETS:
    Pabuwal 1
    Dukeshire 0

  66. Dukeshire says:

    Lol. Nice response. Although when you’re wrong, it’s impossible to stay on topic.

  67. Nickel CBs are, indeed, a dime a dozen. However, good/great ones are not a dime a dozen. In todays NFL, you need more than two starting CBs and nickel corners are basically the 12th starter on defense if you want to look at it that way.

    If I ran an NFL franchise, would I sign Wilson to be one of my starting CBs? No. Why? I don’t like his size. I’m just like comPete on this. I’d rather have bigger CBs. However, if all of my CBs were 5’11-6-1, you can rest damn assured that I’d do almost anything to get that little midget to be my slot guy in the nickel. You can mask his size there and he’s so quick that he’s one of the best CBs in the NFL that I’ve seen: 1. get a quick jump on balls in those more confined areas (pick 6) and: 2. same with blitzing from the slot. He simply has a knack for doing these things which turn into big plays. I don’t know about the average person, but I happen to like big plays on my team, even if others don’t. If I had four CBs who were just over or under 6’0, I’d love the opportunity to have a little midget in the slot if that midget were Josh Wilson.

  68. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Pabuwal- You need to stop being an Anus! Dukeshire has more common sense in his little finger than you do in your whole body!
    Perhaps your arguments and/or opinions would hold more weight if you would present them as opinions instead of bias facts!
    I have had my own share of debates with Dukeshire, and for the most part he has come out ahead!
    I respect the fact that Dukeshire is one of the most dedicated and knowledgeable Seahawk fans!
    Are you to blind to not see that pabuwal?

  69. Dukeshire says:

    Very kind words, thanks and totally unnecessary…

    We all have our opinions, and it’s fun and necessary really, to debate them and challenge one another (in a civil way) that ideally expands our own way of thinking or broadens our views. And none are more important or of more value than anyone else’s. However, what is frustrating to me, maddening actually, is when someone presents something as fact and it’s shown / proven to be incorrect, they don’t own up to it. We all talk out of out ass sometime. We all make mistakes. But don’t compound relating an inaccurate fact by telling everyone “that’s not what I meant” or “I wasn’t being literal”, or some such. Facts are literal. Opinions are way more nuanced generally. It’s insulting, IMO. And that’s my issue with pabuwal regarding this.

    And it is true; I owe him $10 with a double or nothing on a Carson Palmer wager riding. But I’m not shamed by that or anything. lol

  70. Come on over Carson!

  71. GeorgiaHawk says:

    What is the Carson Palmer wager?

  72. I miss Steve Hutchinson.

  73. Duke – its a 2:1 wager which for me could end up as triple or nothing.

  74. I miss Bryan Millard.

  75. Soggybuc says:

    I miss Eric having a plethora of material to post that kept us and our pre school mentalities distracted enough that we did not de-evolve into pointless pissing matches over 5’9″ and 5’11”.
    Bobby’s obvious obsession with never ever letting go on the Hutch front not withstanding =P

  76. I still miss Hutch.

  77. I miss Chuck Knox and Curt Warner, too.

  78. chuck_easton says:

    Soggybuc,

    Wilson is closer to 5’8″ than 5’9″. And those extra 3 or 4 inches in height make a big difference given how big the receivers are getting these days.

    Remember a 5’10” receiver is now considered tiny. Most of the receivers are at the 6 foot plus range.

    4 inches doesn’t sound like alot but it makes a huge difference when it comes to being able to defend a pass. And football is a game of inches!

  79. Soggybuc says:

    Well truth is inches can matter but they dont as much if a player lacks ball skills and instinct.
    When looking at Maxwells combine numbers the one that stood out the most to me was not his 4.46 40 time but his 10’4′ broad jump. that seems like a kid who has the leg strength to get up and play the ball.
    Curry is a perfect example, all the tools in the world wont help you when you can’t figure out which end of the screwdriver to hold onto.

  80. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Speaking about Darrelle Revis Arguably the best cornerback in the game at only 5-11 198 lbs.

    “First of all, it’s his mentality,” said Jets defensive backs coach Dennis Thurman, who played cornerback for the Dallas Cowboys in the 1980s.

    “The great corners, they play man-to-man and accept the challenge. They know going into the game that they have an assignment to do, and that is to shut down to the best of their ability the man they’re covering. So you have to accept and welcome the one-on-one matchup outside, knowing that much of the time you’re not going to get much help.

    “I think he has the right mental makeup, and that’s why he’s the player he is. He has great balance technique-wise; he has great hand-eye coordination; the ability to change directions. He’s very seldom out of position, but his focus and concentration to deal with you individually is probably his biggest strength.”

    Too tall can be a problem in other ways for a cornerback to cover well. IMO.

    I think one of the advantages that shorter cornerbacks have over taller ones is having better balance, and the ability to change directions better.

    I’m all for bigger cornerbacks, however 5-11 is big enough for me if it is big enough for the best in the business.

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