Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Carlson supports Hasselbeck’s return

Post by Eric Williams on June 4, 2011 at 8:55 am with 67 Comments »
June 4, 2011 8:55 am

Mark Craig of the Minneapolis Star-Tribune catches up with Seattle Seahawks tight end and Minnesota native John Carlson. (hat tip to Brian McIntyre)

Carlson says he has fully recovered from a concussion he suffered in the NFC playeroffs against Chicago. And he weighs in on his workout partner, Matt Hasselbeck’s future in Seattle.

“The lockout has been unfortunate for us because of Matt’s situation and the fact we also have a new offensive coordinator, Darrell Bevell, who came over from the Vikes,” Carlson said. “I really hope Matt comes back because he knows the Darrell Bevell West Coast system from all those years under Mike Holmgren.

“But the thing is I have absolutely no idea if Matt will be back or not. Like everything else, it’s just wait and see.”

Doug Farrar of Yahoo Sports provides a wrap-up of the second day of player-led workouts by the Seattle Seahawks at the University of Washington, including interviews with Mike Williams and Matt Hasselbeck.

Christian Caple of provides the full transcript of the Hasselbeck conversation, along with a list of Seattle players in attendance.

John Boyle of the Everett Herald checks in with Deon Butler and how he’s recovering from a broken leg last season.

Jeremy Fowler of the St. Paul Pioneer Press writes that because of the lockout dragging on, Minnesota head coach Leslie Frazier is contemplating bringing a veteran quarterback in to help ease the transition for first-round pick Christian Ponder.

Andrew Brandt of the National Football Report provides an overview of Friday’s court proceedings in St. Louis between NFL owners and players.

Ray Ratto of CBS Sports pens a column definitely worth reading this morning. Ratto throw cold water on those believing a settlement could be close at hand, saying the labor dispute is far from over and that the small-market owners ultimately will be the ones who decide when this thing gets settled.

“So while the 8th Circuit Court hears arguments Friday before re-re-affirming themselves, and the candle in the window of the not-secret secret meeting between representatives of the two sides slowly flickers, the truth is this:

“We have a long, long way to go with this, and the key will not be when the players collapse (that day has already passed, really), but when the owners turn on themselves and argue about what kind of course correction they’ll have to make among themselves when the time actually comes to discuss ratification of an agreement.

“In other words, this whole lot of no fun is going to stay a whole lot of no fun, and you shouldn’t be fooled by ‘Well, at least they’re talking’ shots in the dark. It’s the fifth inning, which is still not long enough for a starting pitcher from either side to get a win. Buy a beer and a brat. It’ll make the time go faster.”

Mike Tanier of Football Outsiders reviews the top five quarterbacks in Seahawks’ history.

Kentwan Balmer is No. 1 on this list by Fox Sports of players looking to erase the bust label.

Morning links
Leave a comment Comments → 67
  1. Dukeshire says:

    Pep Levingston was in attendance? Really good, although I wish Moffitt or some of the other guys could have made it as well.

    The Farrar piece really is a great wrap-up.

  2. Soggybuc says:

    Good to hear Deon is progressing well. he made a nice leap from his rookie season and looked to be on pace for 40+ catches last season. hopefully the leg does little to hinder him coming into that magic “third year”.

    As to the Adam Rink talk from yesterdays thread, I have to agree with him on the Rams uni’s from old bieng one the most iconic classic looks.

  3. Also glad to see that drafted WLB Malcolm Smith was there. Wonder why neither Hill nor Herring could come?

  4. Dukeshire says:

    I’m impressed too that guys like Butler and Lewis were in attendance, that were unable to participate.

    And check that only Levingston came, Smith too. Like to see the rookies there.

  5. Carlson not exactly giving Charlie a ringing endorsement. I guess he saw too much of him in practice (from all our accounts).

  6. Dukeshire says:

    The only thing I remember hearing about CW struggling with in practice, was the accuracy of his shorter throws. Specifically, a tendency to hang guys out too much.

    Regardless, it shouldn’t be terribly surprising that Carlson is firmly behind Hass, considering he’s played with him for 3 seasons now and the two have been working out together nearly this entire off-season (signaling to me that they have a strong bond, which is a very good thing).

    It’s easy to read too much into player’s quotes right now as actual, real football news is next to impossible to come by thanks to the lockout.

  7. I mean, how are they not going to re-sign Matt?

    He’s so obviously the leader, and the player the team respects the most.

    If it wasn’t clear enough to me before, it is after reading these stories.

  8. pabuwal says:

    Does Carlson even start next year and do we need more players who aren’t playmakers with questionable hands (Lynch, Williams)?

  9. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Carlson may start next year, but I doubt that he will be starting at the end of the year.
    Fortunately the Seahawks have two young talented T.E.s waiting in the wings.
    I do hope though that Carlson rebounds from his less then average performance last year.

  10. Dukeshire says:

    Those catch % numbers for Lynch were as misleading as the Jennings coverage stats Football Outsiders provided. If you look closely at those numbers accumulated over the last 3 seasons, he has improved each of those, especially last year. And my guess is that yes, Carlson will be starter next season, although I’m sure Morrah will be pushing hard. The criticism of Carlson last year seems misplaced to me. I’m not going to excuse his drops, but what production can be expected from a TE essentially played FB for 6 games and from an OC that felt his routes were too precise and from a QB that yourself considers to be among the two or three worst starters in the NFL (although I’m not in agreement with that last point).

    It’s pretty easy for me to understand (justify) Carlson’s decline in overall production last year and would expect a significant rebound this season.

  11. Dukeshire says:

    QB comment directed at Pabuwal.


    Charlie Whitehurst is planning to be the Seahawks’ starting quarterback this season.

    Whitehurst acknowledges that competition, either in the form of Matt Hasselbeck or another veteran free agent, will be brought in, but believes “I’m going to get the chance to be the starter.” Although he led Seattle to a stirring Week 17 win, and into the playoffs, last season, Whitehurst is almost certainly the Seahawks’ Plan B.

  13. pabuwal says:

    Carlson has had questionable hands since his rookie year (although did a bit better in 2009). Like all Ruskell 2nd round draft picks thought to be long-term “winners”, he lacks the tools to grow along the lines their initial production suggested. These players come in completely polished and outperform the rookie level but also come in “as good as they will get.” A few injuries are enough to reduce their skill level down to sub-NFL. It wouldn’t surprise me if Carlson’s production would have been the same with the 2005 or 2010 edition of Hasselbeck.

    Marshawn Lynch is a fumbler – I wasn’t really referring to his catching or lack of catching. And I don’t think he scares anyone when he catches the ball in the open field.

    If Hasselbeck is the QB this year (and it looks that way), than surrounding him with playmakers should make him perform average. They will need Morrah, Obomanu/Tate and the Forsett/Washington playmakers to develop consistency. Throw in some rookie OL development this year and the Hasselbeck lovers may be able to “say I told you so.”

    But that doesn’t change that having an average level QB starting is a lot better than having “one of the two or three worst QBs in the league” starting. The playmakers would allow that average QB to look well above average. But at least having playmakers wouldn’t make Hasselbeck’s deficiencies so obvious,

    If we see Lynch, Williams and Carlson as the number 1s for the majority of the year next year, I wouldn’t expect Hasselbeck to look any better than he has the last 5 years.

  14. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Lynch, Williams, Carlson, and hasselbeck would still be good enough to win the NFC west again!
    And they may win more than just one playoff game depending on what plays out when free agency comes around,and how well the o-line improves by the end of the regular season.
    There are only a hand full of very good qbs in the NFL, and there are only a hand full of average to good qbs in the NFL. Not signing Hasselbeck for at least this year would be a huge mistake if the Seahawks want to repeat as NFC west champs again.

  15. Dukeshire says:

    pabuwal – Quite frankly, very little of what you said makes much sense. The fact you are taking the position that it’s the complimentary pieces rather than the foundation that has rendered QB play here as a liability is revealing. You would seem to be of the opinion that an efficient and productive offense is build by starting with receivers, running-backs and TEs first, then build a competent line to support them. I would be interested to learn from which successful team’s blueprint this has come. I suspect none is the answer.

    And this; “But that doesn’t change that having an average level QB starting is a lot better than having “one of the two or three worst QBs in the league”. Are you now admitting that after all the dozens upon dozens of posts where you have stated Hass is well below NFL standards, that he is at least now average? That quite an admission.

    Regarding “all Ruskell 2nd round draft picks”, I presume you mean here in Seattle. Lofa improved each of his first 3 seasons prior to injuries. Pistol certainly has gotten better each season. Jury out on Unger. So we’re left with Carlson and Tapp. Who knows what to make of Tapp at this point, but he’s the Eagles “problem” now. Regardless, Carlson has more yards, catches and TD than Dallas Clark through 3 season and as many TDs and as Jason Witten through 3. I wonder how many games either of them played at FB and with a QB that up until today you have steadfastly held is awful?

    Look, I get the fact you are a contrarian, but the contradictions undermine your point, IMO.

  16. Duke: Carlson has more yards, catches and TD than Dallas Clark through 3 season and as many TDs and as Jason Witten through 3. I wonder how many games either of them played at FB and with a QB that up until today you have steadfastly held is awful?

    I think that has had something to do with Romo and Manning also having legitimate threats at wide receiver.

    Keep in mind, I’m as big as an advocate to bring back hass as there is, I just think those numbers are slightly skewed.

  17. Dukeshire says:

    Quincy Carter, Testaverde and Bledsoe in Witten’s case. But that not withstanding, my point is that while both Witten and Clark have played their entire careers with significantly better talent than Carlson, he still managed to assemble a solid and statistically impressive beginning to his career by comparison, despite not having Manning, not having “legitimate threats at wide receiver” that open the middle of the field for TEs, having to play FB, having Knapp and Bates as OCs, etc…

  18. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Wasn’t Clark injured for much of the 2010 season?

  19. Dukeshire says:

    Missed the final 10 games.

  20. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Kentwan Balmer is #1 on the list of Fox sports players looking to erase the bust label.
    Will Curry be #1 next year? I sure hope not.

  21. Duke – I just re-read my post on Hasselbeck and I don’t see how I am saying anything different than usual about him.

  22. Why am I thinking Mr Williams is somewhere on the beach in Hawaii drinking Mai-Tais?

  23. Audible says:

    What happened in court on Friday?

  24. chuck_easton says:


    Lawyers for NFL: “DID NOT!!!!”
    Lawyers for Players: “DID TOO!!!!”

    Court: “Both of you go to your rooms while we try to figure out your punishment, but neither of you will like it and it’s going to hurt you alot more than it’s going to hurt us”

    Any questions?

  25. Audible says:

    Yeah, when’s recess? LOL Chuck, you have a gift…ESPN really need you to cover their Sports Law pieces!

  26. SandpointHawk says:

    Not liking a four game home schedule ….Not happy with either side.

  27. GeorgiaHawk says:

    If we were to take the Lawyers out of this, than there would have been an agreement already!

  28. Audible says:

    Well, for lack of anything interesting to talk about…Plaxico Burress is out of prison. Let the rumors begin:

  29. Dukeshire says:

    pabuwal – For the better part of 3 years you have berated Hass and have been consistent with your assertion he is well below average. But now you seem to feel he is (at least) average with the potential to be better than that with just some “playmakers”. This is a start departure from your past views. That’s all.

    (BTW, I’ve posted this same message, basically, three times now and none have gone though. So if they all miraculously appear at the same time, as is TNTs way sometimes, I apologize.)

  30. williambryan says:

    I think last season should have been Carlson’s best. Bates was famous (infamous?) for using the TE alot! Hasselbeck started and played the majority of the games! Carlson should have broke out. The team tried to use him at multiple positions (Where he lines up anyways) to help him get open. But yet Morrah was the TE that stood out from last year. I think Carlson is on his way to being a good backup TE in the NFL and not necessarily for the seahawks.

  31. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Good back up, yes. that’s how I see Carlsons future. Again, hope I am wrong.

  32. Dukeshire says:

    williambryan – I don’t recal seeing Carlson line up as a FB before last season (which he did out of necessity) let alone for the better part of 6 games. If Morrah beats him out in camp, so be it but I don’t understand all the Carlson “bashing”. At worst, he’s a solid starter, IMO. But again, if Morrah beats him out that’s fine, but I’d caution against expecting more from any of their TEs than 50 receptions and 750 yards, I don’t see Gates on this roster.

  33. pabuwal says:

    Duke – I didnt say that. Let me sum up what I said in my initial post of this thread:

    1). Hasselbeck is one of the worst starting QBs in the NFL, assuming they all had equal supporting casts.
    2). Give him playmakers and a decent OL and he will perform average with some good moments in there.
    3). It doesn’t change the fact if you had a QB who was average (assuming all had equal supporting casts) and gave that same QB playmakers, the QB would perform above average and have many good moments in there.

  34. bayareahawkfan says:

    I too expected Carlson to have a breakout year last season, based on what I’ll call “The Scheffler Effect”. But it’s very very clear to me why his stats were mediocre.

    Have people forgotten our turnstile O-line, and the crazy scheming they had to do to get even a little pass protection? Whomever posted about Carlson “being moved around the formation” last year must have a short memory if they’ve forgotten that was done out of desperation, to help the O-line protect.

    The fact that was necessary all year is more or less proven by those two play action TDs he had against the Saints – Roman Harper was essentially biting on an entire season’s worth of set up for those two plays.

  35. I too, expected Carlson to break out in a big way. It didn’t happen.

    Some of it is his fault. There were some plays that he could have made that he simply didn’t (like the tough catch in Denver that would have been a huge gain… tough catch… but ones the good/great ones make). There have been too many plays like that with him. For every good/tough catch he makes like that, he can’t hang on to about two of them.

    On the other hand, he got screwed over again by having to do other things he shouldn’t have been asked to do. Two years ago he was stuck blocking all too often. Last year he was playing FB way too often. That’s like asking Trufant to play one of the OLB positions. Stupid. Then Carlson gets punished as a TE for being a better blocker than Morrah (getting stuck at FB) while Morrah got to do what we’d like our TEs to do… actually go out and catch passes. If Carlson would have simply sucked more as a blocker, maybe Morrah (or someone else) would have gotten stuck with the crap FB stuff and Carlson could have run around catching some more passes. It’s not like Carlson is a great blocker either (he’s not), but he’s obviously the best we had.

    Carlson certainly needs to step up his game this year and make tough catches much more routinely if he wants to elevate his play, but the organization needs to actually get a real FB (and, no, Robinson isn’t a “real” FB… he’s a good ST guy, but that doesn’t mean he’s a good FB) and Carpenter needs to be good enough in pass protection (I think he will, but I don’t know if he will enough as a rookie) so Carlson isn’t babysitting the RT in pass protection instead of catching passes.

  36. pabuwal says:

    Morrah has got a ton more upside when it comes to becoming a great receiving TE than Carlson does. And on this team which isn’t very good, I want to play players with upside.

  37. pabuwal says:

    This study here shows the Seahawks OL gave up the least amount of pass pressures in the NFL last year. I always thought they did ok (at least average) in pass blocking and the QB invited a lot of the pressure on their own (like that Raiders game).

  38. pabuwal says:

    Actually, it was the least amount of pass pressures in the NFC and number 2 in the NFL.

  39. Dukeshire says:

    That may be your take on Hasselbeck now, but that is a departure from your posts over the past 3 or so years.

    Morrah may indeed have more upside than Carlson. No one is arguing that, even if it is speculation at this point.

    And don’t worry pabs, if Morrah plays much at all you’ll begin criticizing him too ;) .

  40. GeorgiaHawk says:

    If the Seahawks hadn’t ran alot of roll out plays to save Hasselbeck from the onslaught of interior pressure, then I am sure that those pass blocking stats would have been different.
    You have to look at the whole picture.
    I could throw the Chargers total yards, and total yards allowed stats up here and point out that they were #1 in the NFL in both categories, however there has to be more to it if they couldn’t make the playoffs.

  41. Dukeshire says:

    I too thought they were at least fair in pass pro. But consider too how many blow outs they were involved in and defenses simply don’t typically bring much pressure when up 3 or more scores. As Georgia says, big picture. A lot more to the story than simply quality O line play.

  42. Aside from the Raider game, I also thought the pass protection was fine. But when you can’t run the ball to save your life, it also makes it easier on the defenses. Many, many factors to consider… I agree.

  43. Duke – I never said anything to imply Hasselbeck would look as poorly as he does if had was surrounded by playmakers. Any QB would look better with playmakers My criticism of Lynch, Williams and Carlson as the number 1s supports this. But I certainly haven’t been one of the fans who feels the team should beef up every other offensive position to make the QB look better. Good offensives start with good QBs and then the other positions follow (including OL).

    How many rollouts away from pressure did Hasselbeck really have last year? He could barely move and he certainly can’t throw accurately on the run anymore.

  44. williambryan says:

    I would be interested to see how much Carlson played FB last year because I dont remember it that much. The FB was barely used even when Robinson was available. Maybe someone who knows how to find that info better than I can might be willing to do it?
    Carlson has had plenty of chances to succeed and has rarely done so. I am not one who likes to point fingers and make excuses for peoples play. So he had to help block??? He’s a TE, thats his job! He got his 5 or so targets a game and if he would have made the most of those opportunities we wouldnt be talking about him now.
    And Duke, those 50 receptions are all we really need from a TE. I think thats what the WCO offense wants. I would be happy to see about 8 of those go for TD’s though.

  45. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I saw more rollouts last year then in any other year of watching Hasselbeck. How many? Who knows, perhaps klm008 can find the stats.
    He may not look the part, however Hasselbeck is a good athlete for his age. And he will not back down from laying out his body to make a block.
    I never said he was great, however he is the best that we have at this time, and good enough to help us win the NFC west again. And with better help perhaps a few playoff wins.

  46. So Morrah shouldn’t be a TE because he sucks even worse than Carlson at blocking and that’s his job?

  47. I still love how much more we know on this site than the actual coaches and staff of the Seahawks.

    If CW was soooo much better than MH then he would have played. If MH was as bad as some make him out to be he would not have played or been on the roster at all. and since he is such a bad QB – thats why he is linked to every team in need of a QB upgrade or has a young QB to tutor. It is true it is time to look for a replacement but get a grip.

    Saying that MH would be better with playmakers around him is just plain stupid. EVERY SINGLE PLAYER IN THE NFL would be better, with better play makers around them.

  48. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I sure would like to know who the seahawks are targeting when or if free agency begins this year.
    Any opinions on who might be at the top of the list and why?

  49. My guesses –

    1. Resign their own if they can get them at the price they fell is appropriate
    – in order: Hass, Mebane, and a few minor guys

    1.a. if they can’t resign Matt I believe they will make another ill fated trade for a QB – read – Palmer or Kolb – neither is worth the draft picks it would take us to get him.

    2. OG – Gallery is likely but I sure hope they don’t over pay for a valuable but older – more injury prone guy.

    3. LB depth – I don’t believe we will be able to keep our guys who are looking for starting jobs

    4. BPA – to bring in competition at any position

  50. Dukeshire says:

    williambryan – You’re criticizing Carlson for not succeeding yet his first two seasons he had just exactly what you said you wanted, in terms of production; 50 receptions, 750+ yards and 7 TDs.

    And when I get home, I’ll lookup personnel breakdowns to see if we can find his snaps at FB. It was more than you think, I believe.

  51. GeorgiaHawk says:

    xcman- I agree that Hasselbeck and mebane are top priority. After that I would like to see them add more talent and/or depth to the d-line and linebackers.
    If the Seahawks can nail it in free agency then I think we will win the NFC west again.

  52. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I know I have criticized Carlson some, however I am a fan of his overall work. I like his toughness and attitude, however his hands are just horrible! If he can some how get that corrected than he will most definitely be pro bowl caliber.
    As much as I hate this player,(even more so than any Stealer player), I would have to say that at this point Jeremy Stevens had better hands and that’s not saying much.
    I hope he can get this turned around.

  53. Palerydr says:

    For the record there are only 21 players who have reached the numbers posted for a TE since 1980 (50 catches, 750 rec yds, 7+ TD) of those 11 have played in the 2000’s
    Brent Celek(1),
    Dallas Clark(1),
    Chris Cooley(2),
    Alge Crumpler (1),
    Vernon Davis (2),
    Antonio Gates (6),
    Tony Gonzalez (6),
    Todd Heap (1),
    Shannon Sharpe (4),
    Jeremy Shockey (1),
    Jason Witten (2).

    Carlson did not reach these numbers but I believe he could if he wasn’t blocking 2 out of every 3 plays. What you are asking for is an elite level TE which isn’t unreasonable but we need better overall Oline play to get there. As you can see what you are asking for still doesn’t happen nearly as often or easily as it’s being made to seem.

  54. pabuwal says:

    I could see Carlson averaging 10 yards per catch on 50+ catches but there is no way he ever averages 15 yards per reception on 50+ catches.

  55. Dukeshire says:

    Can you see him averaging 11 per for 50+? Because that’s what he’s done (’08, ’09) on teams with virtually no running game and very little in the way of support from other receivers (which all but the very most talented TEs in history have required to be consistent contributors.) Considering the circumstances in each of his 3 seasons, I’m not sure one can reasonably expect more (drops not withstanding. I’ll never excuse drops.)

  56. Palerydr says:

    Hey pabuwal seeing as how you are so good at predicting the future why don’t you share some winning lottery numbers with us. In case the sarcasm escapes you your opinion doesn’t mean someone can or can’t do something like say avg 15 yds a catch for a season.

  57. I’d like to see an upgrade at TE too – even if Carlson had great hands (and he hasn’t shown that lately) – he is still far less explosive than the majority of TE’s in the league right now.

    Beyond Palerydr’s list above – there are TE’s like Kellen Winslow (who was put up 89/875 and 82/1106 yrs), Visanthe Shiancoe, even Marcedes Lewis (10 TD’s last year). If Carlson was going to be really good, it would have shown up by now. There have been other factors, no doubt, but basically it’s pretty hard to argue that he hasn’t regressed since his rookie year.

  58. Dukeshire says:

    pdway – I may misunderstand your post, to some degree. Are you suggesting the three TEs you listed are “better” (more productive) than Carlson? (Hell, this is Lewis’ 5th season. He had a total of 7 TDs prior to this year. )

    “…far less explosive than the majority of TE’s in the league right now.” Come on now, that’s hyperbole. I’d be interested in seeing a list of, at least, 16 TEs that are “far more explosive” than Carlson. After which point, I’ll be doubly interested is noting how many of them are or have been in similarly desperate situations, as JC has been in his 3 seasons.

    Look, I’m not saying he’s Jermichael Finley or Antonio Gates or Jason Witten, but so much of the criticism he’s taking here doesn’t seem to be based on actual football and the circumstances surrounding this team since ’08 (and before). And sadly, there’s simply no reasoning with that.

  59. SandpointHawk says:

    I really hate to bring up to the uniform discussion from several days ago, however I thought a few of you might be interested in the following link.

  60. Dukeshire says:

    SandpointHawk – Hell yes! Nice find. That’s not a throwback. Not only does it have the current Seahawk logo (although it appears to be a more traditional blue) but the facemask is the dark blue they have now. When the ‘Hawks went to blue facemasks in ’83, the blue was the same color as the jersey. A much lighter and brighter shade of blue. No sir, that appears to be a prototype for the new Nike uniform. A thankful return to a more traditional look, I pray.

    I’m giddy.

  61. GeorgiaHawk says:

    I’m giddy too!

    Last thing that I am going to say about Carlson for awhile is that there is nothing that has frustrated me more in the last ten years of Seahawk play then the inexcusable amount of dropped balls. Not just Carlson, but collectively over the last 8-10 years the seahawks have had some of the worst recieving in the NFL.
    I don’t now how many times I have seen the seahawks recievers drop very catchable balls in big games and at crutial moments.
    It was happening so much in the mid 2000s that it started me questioning Hasselbecks passing.” Is he putting too much spin on the ball”? Ect,ect…
    Hasselbecks a rythm qb, and there is nothing worse,(imo), then dropped balls at crutial moments to help get a qb out of rythm.
    Hasselbeck has been plagued with this his whole career, and to me that kind off explains some of his forced mistakes at times.
    Being the sometimes emotional or high strung qb that he is, he starts trying to do too much when his recievers fail him, and get him out of his rythm.

    That’s why I’m more critical about drops then talent, blocking, route running or anything else a reciever or t.e. does.
    I just hope that finally one year before he retires that Hasselbeck can have collectively a group of recievers that can hang on to that darn football!

  62. “…far less explosive than the majority of TE’s in the league right now.” Come on now, that’s hyperbole. I’d be interested in seeing a list of, at least, 16 TEs that are “far more explosive” than Carlson. After which point, I’ll be doubly interested is noting how many of them are or have been in similarly desperate situations, as JC has been in his 3 seasons

    Re the 1st point, no I was just pointing out addtl TE’s that had hit that 50/700/7 level.

    And re the majority of TE’s point – as to whether it’s hyperbole or not , it’s pretty close to true I think. It’s not a perfect measure, but check the TE stats around the league:

    Off the top of my head, it’s pretty easy to rank Witten, Gates, Davis, Clark, Shiancoe, Finley, Gonzalez, Winslow, and Cooley, as guys I’d rather have.

  63. williambryan says:

    Look, Carlson has been serviceable at worst and maybe thats ok and the team can get by with that. However, Carlson brought expectations of becoming a pro bowl tightend and it doesnt look like that will happen.

  64. williambryan says:

    And the silver helmet is probably one of the remaining ones from the uniform switch. Remember when the team got new uniforms there was a vote to use a silver helmet or the new blue helmet and the season ticket holders and other fans voted on the blue helmets (If my memory serves me correctly…)

  65. Yeah, I don’t really mean to pick on Carlson – we’ve got more pressing issues at other spots – just sort of making conversation during this slow off-season stretch . . .

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