Seahawks Insider

Monday Morning QB live chat transcript

Post by Eric Williams on April 11, 2011 at 9:13 am with 29 Comments »
April 11, 2011 11:54 am

We’ll get started at 10:30 a.m.

Categories:
Chat
Leave a comment Comments → 29
  1. Duke/Eric – oline has not built any cohesion because of injury more so than talent. Second round selection Unger will return, 1-6 Okung is healthy, 1-26 Spencer maybe resigned and Locklear? Those are some high draft picks for an oline. The defensive line has only seen 1-25 Lawrence Jackson of late. Eh, we all know how that worked out. Tapp was traded for Clemmons which turned out to be a pleasant surprise. And with Red Bryant they were stout against the run. Still, Hawks failed to collapse the pocket.

    I’m blaming dline neglect and poor draft selection. DT Tubbs was a Beast on the SB team and a healthy Trufant/secondary played well. Granted the offense was a league best. But again, injury/mismanagement has plagued the Hawks oline in recent years.

    Remember Seahawks 1980’s defensive front consisting of Green, Nash and Bryant. Or better yet; lets have a look at 4 time SB loser Buffalo Bills with DE Bruce Smith. Colts/Freeney, Patriots/Seymour, NYG/Strahan, GB/White, Seahawks/Pierre-Paul or Morgan??? Schneider/Carroll DRAFT FS 1-14 yet Duke places blame on the secondary.

    Seahawk first round secondary consist of CB’s Trufant/KJ (Thurmond [knee] projected late 1st) … name anyone else? Oh yeah, 1-14 FS Thomas??? Normally safety is not chosen so high. 1-6 Chiefs SS Eric Berry was an outstanding game changer but of coarse; KC had chosen DE 1-3 in the prior draft. Another TR gaff was selecting LB Curry so high at 1-4.

    I’m hoping it is injury to the oline and the pieces are there, ad FA’s or mid round selections.

  2. HawkfaninMT says:

    Piggybacking on what Excile is saying a bit…

    I see the argument that a better OL will improve the Defense due to less time on the field. One argument I don’t hear as often is that a playmaking defense will improve the Offenses chances of having a short field and opportunity to put points on the board. I don’t have the stats in front of me, but I think our CBs contributed 4 ints all year!?! It is not easy for an NFL offense to drive 70-80 yards every possession.

    Football is the ultimate team game and thats why I feel that whichever player will be the most immediate upgrade is the player that should be drafted. To me that is Jimmy Smith, or a RT/OG… Just my opinion of course

  3. Dukeshire says:

    excile – Cohesion is secondary to talent. That is, a team can have the same 5 men up front for years on end, but unless they are talented enough to perform at a high level individually, you will have an inferior line. Health is a key element, one that I’m not devaluing. But Seattle has had inferior talent and a lack of health up front, by and large, for the better part of 3 seasons. IMO, a talent upgrade is desperately needed on the o-line to add to Okung (and hopefully Unger). Russ is the foundation by which young, good talent should to be added and then allowed to develop.

    In addition, I’m not “blaming” the secondary for anything. I said that their corners comprise the worst (performing) unit on the team, IMO. Not unlike the o-line, the secondary as a whole now have an all-world talent (Thomas) to build around. But I would think even a casual observer would agree their coverage unit is horrible. It’s no accident the priority in last year’s first round was o line and secondary. Not d-line, where the actually is some talent, if not thin and oft injured themselves.

    Speaking of which, Seattle has drafted 8 defensive linemen since ’06. I would not call that neglect. But of course Jackson in the first symbolizes so much of what was wrong was Ruskell as a GM, IMO.

  4. GeorgiaHawk says:

    With this years draft heavy with defensive lineman I would be suprised to see the Seahawks not draft one in the first two rounds. I hope it’s the first round, and a guard/center in the 2nd. Then back to the defense in the fourth with a linebacker.

    We will never win a championship if we don’t get our D better.

  5. Dukeshire says:

    And one other thing; if we’re to have a conversation about the Seahawks of the 80s and their defense, along with Green, Nash and Bryant, one had better include Kenny Easley and Dave Brown. Their dominance on defense illustrates the symbiotic relationship a d-line and secondary share as well as any I can point to.

  6. Duke – my experience has been it is much easier to find adequate interior linemen later in the draft than exceptional DL. I was all for drafting LG Mike Iupati last year but athletic freak DE Pierre-Paul or Dez Bryant may have been the gem. Earl Thomas is a fine FS but all-world? And your not seriously putting Thomas in the same category as 6-3 210 Easley? LOL. We would have been better served choosing FS 6-2 Kenny Phillips a couple year back.

    This Hawks defense need collapse the pocket as other top teams are capable then coverage would improve. 2007 LB Julian Peterson brought pressure as did DE Patrick Kerney benefiting Trufant who had 7 INT.

    One thing we agree on Duke is that TR was a terrible GM.

  7. Have you not watched the most worthless interior offensive line in the NFL for the last half-decade long enough to know that we have NOT found a good group of players no matter what we’ve tried? How is hoping we “find” a good interior lineman later in the draft going to help us on 3rd and 1? If we had a rock of stability at one singular guard or the center position, then I would be inclined to agree, but we do NOT have that one stud on the interior. I think Unger will be okay/fine at Center, but the crap at guard is not acceptable. It’s horrible. Sucks. It’s sucked long enough unless you want to try to go for a full decade of sucking crap on the interior. If we had one Hutch, then we could get by with a couple of crapholes on the interior, because the Hutch-clone (Pouncey?) would elevate the level of play of the crapholes beside him. I am so sick and tired of being worthless up the middle and knowing our interior line is going to get pushed backwards, especially in short yardage situations, that I could scream, or write a rambling blog post on the Seahawks Insider.

  8. If you want revisionist history, then why not take the other Pouncey at #14 last year (over Iupati)? He’d dominate at Center or Guard. I’d take him over Pierre-Paul, Dez Bryant, or Mike Iupati and I’m pretty sure that most other NFL GMs would too.

    Personally, I wouldn’t trade Earl Thomas for Dez Bryant any day of the week. Nor would I trade ET for Pierre-Paul (but I would ponder it for a few seconds before declining). I’ll admit, I would trade ET for Pouncey though.

  9. Dukeshire says:

    excile – I said Thomas has “all-world talent” not that he has (yet) played at that level. Talent is not the same as production. (Although he is off to a terrific start.) Nowhere did I compare him to Easley. The comparison was the effect the back end of a defense has on the d-line and vice-versa.

    And it’s of no use what-so-ever to go back in time and say they should have take so-and-so, those ships have sailed. Every team every year can do that with no effect on future performance. I for one, would not swap the Okung or Thomas picks for any in the draft. I am totally satisfied with them and where they were taken, and very optimistic for their futures as Seahawks.

    Just as pressure on the QB makes coverage look better, so too does good coverage make d-lines appear to pressure QBs more. I cannot believe the relationship between the two is that complicated to understand.

  10. I would trade either of those two for Sam Bradford:)

  11. A good coach can find ways to win without a run game. Again, look at the 2007 Hawks or numerous Marino/Dolphins and Elway/Broncos teams. Favre won his only SB after the addition of DE Reggie White.

    And WHO is hoping to find. Your putting all those eggs in one Pouncey basket as I see it. With no CBA Hawks cannot use FA and I see no other supposedly sure fire prospect.

    And Duke…. Bruce Smith or Reggie White didn’t need coverage to get sacks. Are you 4 real???

    but yes Earl Thomas is very young and extremely talented. We could have done much worse and he was a safe pick.

  12. Dukeshire says:

    excile – The real question is, are YOU for real? Yes, Hall of Fame DEs (never mind two of the very best-of-the-best to ever play) will, and have always found incredible success without help from coverage (or anyone, for that matter).

    And yes again, Hall of Fame QBs will find success without a “running game”. But I wasn’t aware the conversation relied on the very most extreme end of the spectrum.

    I have never once said I want the ‘Hawks to draft Pouncey. I challenge you to find where I have said that.

    When the conversation finds it’s way back to a reasonable one regarding building a contending and highly competitive football team, in the here and now, let me know. Because this is ridiculous exercise.

    (Those Bronco teams didn’t have a running game? Do some homework, please.)

    Bobby – Do I really have to add that I wouldn’t trade them for anyone still available at that stage?

  13. Everyone who watched those ’07 Seahawks knows fully well that there’s no way they had a “real” chance to win it all and it was because of the sole reliance on Hasselbeck and his arm because of NO run game. This was especially true in short yardage situations.

    There have been many ways and teams (with their own strengths/weaknesses) who have won the Super Bowl and while there isn’t one direct blueprint to win it all, there are many philosophies, and mine focuses on 1. QB, 2. Consists of an OL with at least three really good pieces in a row on an offensive line. 3. Followed by everything else, including DL, LB, DB, WR, etc. I will never waver from that blueprint.

    I will take Matt/Walt/Hutch any day over a defensive line with the likes of Cortez Kennedy and Sam Adams. Maybe add a guy on the edge like Michael Sinclair. Throw in a good guy like Chad Brown for the front seven. What? You mean weren’t world beaters when we had those guys on the same team? How can that be? I’d give anything to trade Mebane/Cole in for Tez/Adams and I’d trade any of our DL for a Michael Sinclair coming off the edge (especially from the strong side). Remember the years of Sinclair and his 13, 12, and 16.5 sacks and we still weren’t an overly good team? And, again, that was with Tez and Adams in the middle with Chad Brown contributing too.

  14. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Pete Carroll said that defensive line was the position he wished they could have Improved better after last years draft!
    Now looking at this years draft it should be a no brainer who Carroll picks!
    The only two O-Lineman worthy of picking in the first round,( in my opinion), is Pouncey and Carimi. It wouldn’t disappoint me if we were to choose either of them.
    However with the possibility of 12-15 D-Lineman going in the first round, it looks like the odds are in favor of us getting a good D-Lineman. And that’s OK with me.

    Unless they are very special players I do not want to see the Hawks keep spending a 1st on O-Lineman.

  15. Duke – Pouncey was directed at BK. You both made posts at the same time. Keeping up isn’t easy because all posts do not come up quick on my PC. Or I’ll miss them for whatever reason.

    Extreme? I’ve used the Kerney, Peterson, Trufant example as well.

    Do your own homework. Pre Terrell Davis was Bobby Humphries who only lasted a couple 1,000+ seasons. Went to the 1989 SB and got blew out by the 49ers. Many other Elway/Bronco teams lacked an explosive run game.

  16. BobbyK – why is it that you prefer Pouncey over Iupati? Is it because he made the pro bowl as a highly publicized Stealer. PFF rates Iupati much higher. As in +9.6 to -4.2

    Carolina LG Geoff Schwartz drafted in the 7th played RT in college and dominated USC DE, Lawrence Jackson. Seahawk scouts err questionable at best.

  17. GeorgiaHawk says:

    BobbyK,

    We weren’t world beaters when we had Matt/Walt/Hutch on the same team. And now that we have Carroll as coach he’s not going to just stack the offensive side of the ball like Holmgren did and neglect the defense.
    That’s just not going to happen with a defensive minded coach.

    Were going to get back to the Superbowl, however it’s not going to be close to being like the 2005 team. Were going to have a team that will dominate on the road, and we will have a much better defense. And we will have a more balanced team from top to bottom.

  18. I don’t think anyone here will be mad if we draft a DL in the 1st round (as long as he doesn’t turn out to be Lawrence Jackson II). But that 2nd rounder had better have a name like Wisniewski or Cannon though! I have been thinking about Marcus Cannon lately. On the surface, he doesn’t look like a fit in our system but he is extremely athletic for such a huge man and Cable does like his guards bigger (although I don’t know if it’s that big). I don’t see Unger excelling at Guard under Cable, but I see him being very good at Center. And, man, nobody is going to push Cannon backwards on 3rd and short.

  19. We may not have been world beaters all of those years, but we did make a Super Bowl, whereas the good DL of those mid-late 90s teams weren’t very good.

  20. I prefer Pouncey over Iupati (now, not last year) because he made a huge difference on the Pittsburgh OL and made the Pro Bowl as a rookie. That’s pretty amazing/impressive to me.

    In no way do I think Iupati sucks. I’d love to have him.

    I never watched the 49ers/Steelers enough to have a definite opinion of them, but isn’t it impressive that Pouncey made it on the interior offensive line as a rookie? I do. There must be something to it. As we’ve been saying a lot of lately, where there’s smoke, there’s usually fire too.

  21. Maybe after the Steelers saw that stat they want to offer Pouncey (who sucks) for Iupati. I doubt they would do it, even though the stats say that Iupati is better.

  22. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Yes the 2005 team did make it to the superbowl, however that team was not playing in the AFC west like the Seahawks in the mid 90s. We were lucky to have easy pickens in the NFC west and as a result home field advantage to the superbowl.
    That does not however take anything away from how great Hutch and Jones were!
    And yes I agree to O-Line in round two if we were to pick D-Line in round one.

  23. Dukeshire says:

    excile – Elway / Broncos didn’t win the Super Bowl until they had a great running game, even with some success prior. Doesn’t that teach us something? (Aren’t we discussing what builds champions?)

    GeorgiaHawk – Carroll clearly relishes balance. Okung / Thomas in the first last year and dumping Bates for a lack of balance in their offense illustrates that (at least to me).

  24. GeorgiaHawk – good point. The Seahawks of the late 90s (95-98) had 4 games each year against 2 of the best teams in the NFL, the Chiefs and Broncos. And given the stadium and ownership situations, the Seahawks of that time period had zero home field advantage. I think it was a miracle they were able to finish with a virtual .500 record.

    None of the Seahawks division winners of the 2000s had another team in the division with a winning record. The Seahawk teams that won divisions in the 2000s fared poorly playing against higher end caliber teams like the 90s Chiefs and Broncos. I think the only division winner that would have had a winning record playing in the late 90s AFC West would have been the 2005 team and I think they would have come in with a 9-7 finish.

    I watched the playoffs last year and saw 3 of the final 4 teams have downright bad OLs. And while the Jets had 2 pretty good OL, they had three other guys where the sum total was average. But all 4 teams had exceptional skill position players and QBs that could make plays when the pocket broke down. Some of the more successful teams don’t build an OL with high draft picks – they build them through coaching and cohesion.

    Trying to win with a broken down Matt Hasselbeck, a downright average Lynch and a slow as hell, bad hands MIke Williams would make any offense look bad, regardless of OL. The 2005 OL would have looked fairly average with these skill position players.

  25. pabs wants us to trade our 1st and 2nd for Kevin Kolb:)

  26. maddog12 says:

    I’d vote no on Kolb. I’d rather keep Charlie, get our oline fixed and sign what we can for a qb. Has Peyton Manning signed yet?:)

  27. Dukeshire says:

    pabs – What are some of the more successful teams whose o-line was made through “coaching and cohesion” while not investing high draft picks?

    “The 2005 OL would have looked fairly average with these skill position players.” I would argue that players unable to perform at a high level behind that line (or any great unit) are the one who would look bad. That is, if a running back struggles to gain yards behind a well executing line, it is the back who as at fault, not the line who then looks “average”. (At least by any objective study of that particular team’s situation. Much in the same way the Steelers line is unreasonably criticized in pass pro. because Roethlisberger holds the ball in the pocket as long as any in the league.)

  28. GeorgiaHawk says:

    Pabuwal,

    I had forgotten all about the ownership and stadium situations of the 90s. I don’t think any team could have thrived with all that going on.

    And those three of the final four playoff teams last year also had top 10 defenses. You could even add Chicago to that mix. they had a horrible O-Line allowing 56 sacks on a QB that can run.

    Speaking of QBs that can run, I have never seen so many qbs come out of a draft at one time with so much athletic ability that have the potential to be franchise QBs. Perhaps we can get one? I’m thinking Ponder.

  29. Duke – GB, NE and NYG – although GB’s OL isn;t that good but the team has been very successful with this philosophy. NYG had a top end OL for a few years before age caught up and NE has been above average as well for the last few years.

    BobbyK- That Kolb joke is the same as making a “yo momma” joke on the playground – no one leaves happy after one of those!

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