Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Hawks fueling Kolb speculation?

Post by Eric Williams on March 23, 2011 at 9:00 am with 49 Comments »
March 23, 2011 10:01 am

Don Banks of Sports Illustrated says the Seattle Seahawks are not necessarily playing down their interest in Philadelphia reserve quarterback Kevin Kolb.

The Eagles reportedly already have received an offer of a first round pick for Kolb’s services, and speculation has it that team is Seattle.

Seahawks head coach Pete Carroll was asked about his team’s interest in Kolb during the NFL owners meeting this week, and did not flatly deny that there was any truth to the speculation that Seattle was interested in Kolb, leading Banks to believe that the Seahawks are the leader in the clubhouse.

“It’s good that people think that,” Carroll told reporters, of the rumors linking No. 25 Seattle to Kolb. “Because every opportunity that’s available, we investigate. We want to (take) every opportunity, and that’s one that’s been out there. They’ve said he’s a guy they would possibly move. So those kind of discussions, it doesn’t matter where it’s coming from, we’re trying to be privy to all of it. We just want to know what’s going on.”

“Anybody who comes through Andy’s program has been through a great system, with great coaching and leadership and direction and all of that,” Carroll went on to say. “And that adds to the value of the player, rather than (getting) a guy who’s coming fresh out of college.”

Seahawks kick returner Leon Washington tells Brock Huard and Mike Salk of ESPN 710 Seattle in this audio link that he doesn’t like the changes to kickoffs approved by league owners this week.

The proposal moves the kickoff up five yards from the 30 to the 35 yard line, and only allows kickoff coverage guys to line up five yards behind the kickoff line.

“I was telling my dad the other day,” he said, “it just looks like there’s going to be a bunch of 109-yard kickoff returns because I plan on coming out of the end zone if that takes place.”

ESPN’s Mike Sando reports on why the playoff re-seeding movement died so quietly this year.

Former Seahawk Leonard Weaver makes the unfortunate choice of agreeing with Minnesota running back Adrian Peterson, saying that players want equal treatment from the owners and are tired of being treated like slaves.

Check out the video below.

I understand the rhetoric players are attempting to create with their message, but they really need some history teachers to address them and explain to them the meaning of slavery in this country and the emotions they invoke when they use this word. And maybe a slap upside the head from someone like Tony Dungy would help, and then perhaps they will stop this idiotic behavior. I’m embarrassed and ashamed for both Weaver and Peterson.

Weaver later apologized this morning on Twitter.

“Now, that I have seen it, I will say that it was hard for me to watch and after thinking about it, I’ve come to the conclusion that I represented my family, friends and organization the wrong way. I’m sorry for those words I used and if I offend anyone, please forgive me,” he said. “To all my fans whom I’ve disappointed I’m sorry.”

Georgia linebacker Justin Houston has a scheduled visit with Seattle. He could play the Leo position like fellow Georgia product Chris Clemons. Houston is 6-3, 267 pounds and ran a 4.57 40-yard dash during his pro day.

Gary Meyers of the New York Daily News reports that former NFL head coach Buddy Ryan has cancer.

Jack Becta of the National Football Post weighs on the influence the media has on the draft. It’s very little, according to Becta, an NFL agent, and I agree with him.

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Morning links
Leave a comment Comments → 49
  1. Dukeshire says:

    Eric, very well said, that was awesome to read from you. The stain that slavery left on our nation’s history compared to the lifestyle and privilege today’s professional athletes choose (CHOOSE) to live and work to enjoy simply cannot compare, on any level. Prior to Curt Flood suing Major League Baseball / Bowie Kuhn and what ushered in free agency, a loosely based comparison could perhaps be made. But at this point, the language is so hyperbolic and ill-informed it defies any reasonable intelligence.

    Beyond all that, I’m surprised that either side talking in such rhetorical tones. It serves no purpose other than to continue alienating themselves.

  2. Dukeshire says:

    Back to football; Houston would be a hell of a lot of fun to have. Not only would he make a great Leo, but he’s versatile enough to develop into a solid Will in nickel packages, IMO. Problem is, I can’t see Seattle taking a LB in the first and he’ll be long gone at the end of the second. Of course, if some manor of FA comes before the draft there’s no telling what deals and signings Carroll / Schneider may pull. And after reading Carroll’s ambiguous comments regarding Kolb, I have no idea what to expect.

  3. Well said, and comments like those do not help endear me to the players. Still, I’m on their side in this since its the owners who want to change the deal to take a bigger share for themselves. I’m so sick of the labor dispute, but all labor disputes are sickening, and all of these tend to be resolved in favor of wealthy owners at this point in our history. The owners are squeezing their golden goose for a few more golden eggs, all for themselves. They didn’t become billionaires by being fair-minded.

  4. Whomever gets Kevin Kolb is going to overpay. Will that be Carroll and Scheider? I would think Schneider’s desire would be to draft a guy like Ponder instead and develop him, without overpaying.

    Imagining possible scenarios –

    1) Seahawks re-sign Hass, draft a developmental QB, struggle through 2011, and unveil their next QB project in 2012. 49ers essentially do the same with Alex Smith and a developmental QB. I’m not sure who wins in that situation.

    2) Seahawks trade their 2012 first-round pick for Kolb. Hass walks and signs with the 49ers. With a solid team around him, and revenge to be had, Hass wins another NFC West title. Seahawks 2012 pick ends up being in the 10-20 range and the Eagles celebrate.

    3) Somebody trades multiple draft picks for Kolb and we all look back on the trade as just another reach for a QB no better than other guys drafted in the second of most drafts.

    4) Charlie Whitehurst leads Seattle to the super bowl. Not really, I’m just testing whether anyone reads these things.

  5. CHawkFanIn9erLand says:

    That’s one of the drawbacks to players having so many ways to communicate to fans. It’s so easy to say something they will regret. All it takes is a moment of anger, frustration, etc and something gets put out there to the world.

    I can look back and think of many times at parties, during arguments, etc that I’ve said something and immediately wished I had a rewind and erase button. Hopefully he feels like an idiot right now, because he really came across poorly there.

    The players have some legitimate points to make in this discussion. Comments like that one provide an unfortunate distraction from the more appropriate parts of the players’ message.

  6. CHawkFanIn9erLand says:

    Stevos, I can certainly empathize with the players’ situation here. But I can’t agree with your point that “all of these tend to be resolved in favor of wealthy owners at this point in our history”. That’s simply not true. Since the league started, the overwhelming trend in past labor discussions has been an improved labor situation for the players. I can’t imagine someone debating that the players plight is worse in this decade than it was 25 years ago. It might be worse this year than it was last year in a few respects, but I guess we’ll have to wait and see how this ends.

  7. Last years offseason was so fun. I hate this year. Please get deal done!
    IMO Kolb for #25 is a homerun.

  8. Just a guess, but I doubt the Hawks would go with Ponder or Dalton. Schneider can’t hide his admiration for quarterbacks who can “really spin it”. Ponder’s arm has been hurt, and though it’s supposedly back, it’s not a big weapon itself. And Dalton’s arm strength is sub-standard for a NFL QB.

    Kolb is more likely than either of those two, in my opinion.

  9. Dukeshire says:

    It wouldn’t surprise me to see the Cards trade their #5 for Kolb. A crazy high pick for him, granted. But Kolb is only due $1.4 next year and they could then negotiate a contract based on how he performs in ’11. That would likely cost a lot less than signing the fifth overall pick and Bidwell is as cheap as any owner in league history.

  10. Yeah. Those idiots who compare the NFL to slavery are just that – idiots. Lets see, in one scenario you are forced to do something against your will and can be beaten/killed for whatever reason (or beaten for no reason). You are manipulated to no end and life outright sucks. Being a parent, the worse part, to me, would be to watch your child grow up as someone else’s property and beaten/disciplined by them and perhaps even sold into another life of hell (repeat cycle).

    The NFL pays you thousands or millions of dollars to play football. Sure, there are rules in the NFL, but there are rules with every single one of our jobs, too. If you don’t like playing football, you can simply use your FREE college education to get a real job. Sure, you may not make the same type of money, but you have a choice to live where you want to live, the freedom to do it, etc. If you’re Chad Johnson, you can even publicly critize your head coach or owner and you will not be beaten/killed.

    The comments from Weaver and A.P. are about as dumb as you can get.

  11. We could be ensuring that a team like the Cards are going to have to give up more than they want. That’s good business.

    I could see the loser of the Kolb sweepstakes ending up with Matt though.

  12. Just curious: When it comes to linemen and linebackers, why don’t they get their 10-yard dash times? Everyone gets excited about 40-yard times. I wonder how fast The Tez ran the 40.

  13. Dukeshire says:

    During the combine, they do offer the first 10 yard split, but I don’t believe they are published on the NFL’s combine page. Mayock always notes the first 10 yard split.

    In the past I’ve seen Tez’s 40 time as 4.77 (as I remember). I wasn’t able to find it with a quick search. I’ll keep looking.

  14. Mr Williams:
    I looove your blog, but I also like L.Weaver and hope you might consider cutting him a little slack. He did say that NFL players were treated like “slaves” by the owners, but people use the word “slave” all the time. She’s a “slave” to fashion, he’s her love “slave”, his boss is a “slave” – driver, etc. He never actually said NFL playerhood is being a plantation slave. To the extent he meant to imply it, that is the extent he needed to apologize. If he apologized that people might have inadvertently interpreted it that way, then I don’t feel he needed to apologize. He did apologize, not certain why. Did he apologize to us, or to those who went before him who gave their efforts and lives to ensure that this society no longer resembles, in any way, that plantation slavery allowing society of old? By saying NFL playerhood is like (plantation) slavery disses their lives and efforts. OK, I think I get it(?)

  15. Duke –
    If you do find 10-yd split times from like 1990, please do share the site.

  16. Palerydr says:

    You know here’s a trade possibility I just heard that would work for Phoenix or SF swap picks with Philly in the first round and acquire Kolb in the process. That would be a great move for either of those teams, but not us.

  17. That reminds me an a black female boss I had a long time ago…she was piling on the work, and without thinking, I said, to her, you’re a slave-driver, ya know that right?! Luckily, she had a good sense of humor.

    But, their comments don’t sound like just a poorly chosen manner of speech…and, I think they deliberately chose those words because they do evoke such strong emotions.

    I don’t remember hearing about slaves having a Union, million dollar salaries, and they certainly didn’t have free agency.

  18. chuck_easton says:

    Palerydr,

    That trade scenario you talk about is pretty much how Seattle got Hasselbeck.

    We swapped our higher 1st rounder with GB’s lower first rounder and we threw in a 3rd rounder.

    I can’t see Philly just swapping 1st round picks and giving Kolb. There would have to be some later round pick that SF or Arizona would need to include to make it work for the Eagles.

  19. I’m a slave to reading this blog numerous times per day……

  20. Maybe the next comment we’ll hear is how Goodell is a modern day Hitler or Stalin, instead of a J.P. Morgan, Rockefeller, or Carnegie.

  21. Dukeshire says:

    Hitler and Natzis… Don’t you love that one on the cable news shows? Good god.

  22. Last year, all the talk in Philly was about Kevin Kolb’s impending rise to stardom with Mike Vick as an afterthought. Philly was fortunate that when Kolb fell flat on his face, they “lucked” into starting Vick (who they tried desperately to give away during the off season).

    This year, it’s the same but with Vince Young as an afterthought. The team that gets Kolb will have no such luck with a capable backup and will be setback several years while the team with Vince Young will be one of the surprise teams of next year, who “lucked” into a franchise QB for nothing.

    I hope Arizona antes up, does the stupid thing and gives up their first round pick for Kolb.

  23. AaronCurryIsBUST says:

    Speaking of Hitler, did anyone know there are more Jewish owners of NFL franchises than there are Jewish NFL players? Go figure.

  24. $1m-$10m per slaves? me think not. Maybe $1 mil – $10mil per year punching bags, but definitely NOT slaves.

    Weaver, I’ll trades salaries with you any time for any period. Just say the word!

  25. I’ll take this guy any day of the week and twice on Sunday for a LATE round pick…

    http://rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4174/amobi-okoye

  26. And he’s the same age as Russell Okung.

  27. maddog12 says:

    I don’t understand the fascination with Kolb. I’m in the not worth the first round pick group (maybe a small group). If I was going the do a Kolb trade I would do it at last minute after I saw how the draft was going.

    I think I would rather try to keep Matt than giveaway 1st Rd for Kolb. I would take Carson Palmer over Kolb easy.

    Just my thoughts on the subject.

  28. maddog12 says:

    Maybe Kolb talk is just a smoke screen Per the National Football Post….http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/The-medias-influence-on-the-draft.html

    “…The team visit; a smoke screen?

    One longtime scouting director told me that if he were interested in a QB, he would not bring in him for a visit and bring in one he had no interest in drafting. The reason for this was that it would leak out and he didn’t want to show his hand to the other teams.”

  29. StevoS and Dukeshire–Wow, excellent points in your early posts.

    Kolb has been up and down in his few starts, looking either awful or Brady-esque, depending on the day. Which is a lot better than Hasselbeck looked after a lot more starts. Give Kolb the reins for a full season, and I think you’ll see why teams are clamoring for him. He’s got a stronger arm than Hass ever had, and he has trained under Reid for four years, and seems to have all the markings of a real game-manager.

    With the risks inherent in drafting a qb high, and the ridiculous money paid out to them, it makes sense that teams would be willing to trade a first and a third, or even a first and a second, for a fifth year qb who has shown brilliant flashes and has been mentored under a complex offensive system. Especially teams that run a WCO. Though another point is that Kolb has a strong enough arm to run a vertical passing game as well, which makes him attractive to teams like the Bengals and Cardinals. Add to that his low salary, and those two teams especially–with the cheapest, most tightwas owners in sports–should be interested.

    All of which point to Seattle not getting a deal done unless we overpay horrifically. Sad and ironic that overpaying for CW may have hamstrung our ability to trade a first and third for Kolb this year.

    Honestly, I would love to see us re-sign Hass, and either pick up a promising qb in the draft this year or next. Other options include bringing in McNabb when the Washington Football Club cuts him loose, or doing the same with Vince Young. Young has a lot to learn about being a leader, and signing him and lettting him compete with CW to backup Hass would be great. I doubt he’d go for it, but he might learn a thing or two. By next year, he could beat Hass out and life could be good.

  30. I thought Tez ran a 4.9 40. It would be sick if he ran a 4.77. Thats faster than Steve Largent, and almost as fast as Jerry Rice’s 4.7 40. Tez was amazing, and its disgusting that Richard Dent is in the HOF and Tez is not, but he wasnt THAT fast.

    But you’ll have to do research to find his actual combine numbers.

  31. hawkfan777 says:

    I have a hard time with Weavers comments also and I tend to believe that the players have things awfully good right now. Go back 20+ years and you had players that worked harder, got hurt more (less emphasis on safety) and were paid much less. There are many, many guys out there that would do just about anything to have the opportunity to play in the NFL. They would also do it for the league minimum for years if given the opportunity. These guys that are making 15+ million per year (Brady, Manning) need to realize how good they really have it.

    The families living in 3rd world countries live off of less than $100 per month and these guys are crying about their wages????? Ridiculous.

  32. Idaho_MarinerSonicHawk says:

    Carrol’s first move couldn’t have been worse for us now (trading a 3rd rounder for CW). Can’t do much with that. The thing that people like about Kolb is that he’ll come relatively cheap for the experience that he has. The ‘Hawks hope he’ll turn into another Matt Schaub (Schaub also sat behind Vick in ATL). The only thing is, is that it’s the same debate as to whether a QB is more important than an O-Lineman. I would rather take Kolb over a rookie QB at this point, but the ‘Hawks have other pressing needs. Not sure what the Eagles want for Kolb. My guess would be nothing less than a 1st rounder or two lower picks. The Eagles will come out the winner in this regardless. If this were a democracy, my vote would be to somehow work a deal for Kolb while holding onto our 1st & 2nd rounders. Trade future picks and some cash to the Eagles. I just wonder if the Cards, 49ers, Vikes & Titans are more desparate. My guess is yes.

  33. Idaho_MarinerSonicHawk says:

    Plus, worst case scenario: Lose out on Kolb, resign Hass to 2-year deal, draft O-Lineman in 1st, draft playmaker or D-Back in 2nd. Finish 5-11, get a high draft pick, draft QB next year in 1st round while keeping all of our picks in 2012.
    Best scenario: Trade future picks for Kolb, pick o-lineman in 1st, pick playmaker/d-back in 2nd. Finish 9-7/10-6 as NFC West champs and make a deep run for SB. Trade 1st round pick in 2012 to OKC to get the Sonics back and everyone lives happily ever after!

  34. Dukeshire says:

    STTBM – Finding info on combine numbers from that far back has proven a lot more difficult than I thought it would be. This is what I consider the most reliable info I could find, looks like he ran in the 4.86-4.89 range. (I guess time makes players after after all, lol) Still, pretty impressive.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/14823/assessing-mccoys-bench-press-results

  35. Dukeshire says:

    Hey everyone! Let’s head to CenturyLink Field. Meh… No thanks, I’m going back to calling it Seahawk Stadium.

    http://www.macsfootballblog.com/2011/03/qwest-field-to-get-new-name.html

  36. Yeah, the whole Sponsor-naming thing makes me barf. I hate it.

    I loved when Candlestick Park got renamed 3-Com park, and one of the three announcers on Monday Night wouldnt call it anything other than Candlestick–and every time he’d say it Candlestick, one of the other toady announcers would slimily chime in “Dont you mean, 3-COM PARK”. And finally, the guy (I cant remember which one-Dierdorf or Micheals or the other guy) says, “NO, dammit, I mean Candlestick Park! It’ll always BE Candlestick Park!” and I cheered. Of course, after the next commercial break, the guy had a muzzle in place, and the other two guys seemed to be in a race to see who could say “3-Com Park” the most times….PUKE!

    Paul Allen caved to the NFL owners, who were whining that he wouldnt go along to get along and sell naming rights to Seahawks Stadium. He didnt need the money, and didnt want to. But Allen wants so badly to be “One of the Boys” that he eventually caved. What a wuss. And then Goodells pet refs ruined/threw Super Bowl 40. What did your lack of balls buy you, Allen?! Not much, just a loss of respect from peons like me.

    Ok, end of rant. Apologies for those who disagree. I cant help it, I just cant stand The TOSTITOS Bowl, CenturyLink Park, et al. Gross! I liked it better when they named stadiums after Dead White Guys. (I didnt care what color they were or who they were, its better than todays product names).

  37. How many college bowls have been renamed? They used to be names like Cotton, Orange, Rose, etc. Have they been sold yet? Wonder who’ll buy the Rose Bowl?

    Is it wierd that some stadiums sell one name for the stadium and another name for the field? Microsoft Field at CenturyLink Stadium?

  38. Dukeshire says:

    Sponsorships to those games have been sold. For example, The Rose Bowl presented by Vizio. Or The Tostito Fiesta Bowl, etc…

  39. Hawksince77 says:

    Kolb – After reading all the comments and thinking about it a bit, I agree with those who consider the QB position the single biggest priority for the team. Drafting at 25, I don’t see a lot of opportunity to get the right guy (unless Mallet turns out to be it, or Ponder) and even if they identify a QB that will be available at 25 as a future franchise QB, the risk remains.

    I have been advocating prioritizing the o-line, and the guy I really like at 25 is Derek Sharod. I also really like Carimi (have cooled a bit on Pouncey – not even sure if he is the best guard prospect available, let alone worth a first rounder).

    Anyway, Kolb is worth a lot, for all the reasons cited in previous comments. Close to his prime, starter-ready last year for the Eagles, West Coast guy with a good arm..etc etc. The risk factor with Kolb is far lower, along with the development time, then anyone available in the draft (including the top QB – whoever that might be).

    BUT, if the o-line isn’t seriously addressed, it doesn’t matter who is at QB – CW, Hass, Kolb, or, god forbid, Mallet (average speed DTs could run the guy down).

    So, in my mind, while trading the 25 pick would be a bargain for Kolb (and maybe even throwing in next year’s 3rd). But that’s it. If they want more than that, say Seattle’s first and second, I say pass. Seattle desperately needs those picks. Trading the 25th for Kolb would equate to drafting a game-ready guy, and that’s a deal.

    But if FA doesn’t happen before the draft, would all trades have to involve next year’s draft? If that’s the case, I might trade next year’s first and third for Kolb. That way, all of this year’s picks get retained, and a chance to build something.

  40. Hawksince77
    Why have you cooled on Pouncey?

  41. Hawksince77 says:

    Good question. It took a few minutes to find the ranking that seems credible to me, one that has Pouncey at #40 overall, and third behind Wisinieski and Hudson at 36 and 37. Also, Watkins sits right next to Pouncy at 41.

    Other offensive linemen (OTs) rank 18, 19, 20, 21 and 30 (the usual suspects). Any one of these guys presents more value, IMO, at 25 than Pouncey. Plus, the drop-off from Pouncey to another guard/center available at 57 will likely be minimal.

    I think most rankings have Pouncey so high because of his brother. He is a sexy pick at the position – not necessarily the most valuable.

    http://www.nfldraft101.com/draft/rankings/2011/top.jsp

  42. The more I think about trading for overpriced QBs like Kolb or Palmer, the more I think Schneider will never do it.

    I have a feeling we won’t even draft in the first round, but we might draft four or five guys in rounds two, three, and four, after Schneider swaps picks around on draft day. That would be more his style.

  43. Stevos-
    At this point, even the possibility of trading ’11 draft picks for players is too far-fetched to consider. The draft is like April 22-24(?) The NFL & NFLPA meet with Judge Nelson Apr 6. She’s sposed to decide if the lockout is OK or not OK. The NFL sez she shouldn’t even consider the matter ’till the NLRB has studied and determined if the union decert is legit or not. So either she grants the NFLPA an injunction against the NFL lockout, or she agrees to wait and hear what the NLRB has to say. I’d expect her to wait.

    I don’t know what the date is for the the NLRB to issue a ruling on the NFLPA’s decert, but the original purpose of the NRLB was to ensure that owners treated unions fairly, not the other way around. If the NLRB agrees with the owners, then it’s back to Judge Nelson and argue it out. If the NLRB agrees with the NFLPA, then it’s back to Nelson and likely a rubber stamp “no lockout” and then, due to the hardening of each side during their recent owners meeting and players rep meeting, they agree to extend the old CBA another year under the same rules as ’10.

    Then they work out a new CBA to use in ’12. Getting to the point of having the old CBA extended, so that trades can be worked out has gotta take more than the 16 days between the Judge Nelson court date and the draft. So, no trades likely before the draft. Maybe trades after the ’11 draft using ’12 draft(?)

    Hawk77-
    We’re all trying to figure out what JS is gonna do. Most mocks have Mike Pouncey going before SEA gets to pick. But if he’s there, I’d take him before Ponder, J.Smith, Hudson, Mallet, and some of the OTs they (NFLdraft101) have listed above where SEA picks. Prior to the draft, Pitts, Locklear, Willis, Polumbus, Hamilton, Spencer, and C.White are likely still out there as FAs. If August and September come and go before a usable CBA (doubtful) we stand a better chance of re-signing any of them as other teams would be hard pressed to sign them and train them in their schemes before they have to see the field.

    But, if the old CBA gets extended by late June or early July other teams will be more interested in them. SEA will be a “final eight” team so they’ll be restricted to resigning their own FAs or getting players cut from other teams, plus one expensive one and any number of $3+M and under FAs from other teams. SEA will be concentrating on resigning their own players. If the one expensive FA (or trade) ends up Kolb (with a 1st & 3rd in the ’12 draft), then I’d hope JS would concentrate on run-blocking OLers with both the 1st and 2nd picks of the ’11 draft.

    SEA’s OL was OK at pass-pro last season, but bad at run-blocking. Lynch showed what he can do if he gets a hole to run through vs NO in the postseason. Forsett and LW should also be dangerous in the 2nd level as well, if they can just get a little help from the OL to get there. If we can get Matt back, he’ll be able to distribute the football fast enough to limit sacks, but if he’s pressured enough and he’s not on the same page with his receivers yet he’ll throw more picks. SEA needs an OL that can run-block to take the pressure off Matt (or CW). Last season we had very little run-game to the outside – the only place runs really worked was at Okung’s position. Cable was hired to fix the run game and he tends to have larger OLers than A.Gibbs.

    Which OLers does Cable wanna re-sign, or does he plan to make his own OL pretty much from scratch? Locklear may be in demand. He took a pay cut to stay on the team and may be looking to get outta town. SEA was not able to run very well to gaps around his position. Was Lock playing injured? Too bad Pitts has been injured badly and his injuries have been recurring – he’s a good ZBer and may also be in demand. Spencer has had a history of injuries too, and he may also be looking for a pay increase from SEA, and might also see some demand. Polumbus should be in demand, but even though he only has 3 accrued seasons or less, I never heard that he was tendered (it’ll take 6 accrued seasons to make UFAs if the ’10 CBA gets exended). Ray Willis should also be eligible to be tendered, but I never heard any tender was offered either, plus he ended up on IR. Hamilton is probably retired. Don’t think C.White got tendered.

    Anyway, if Cable gets 9-10 players to work with, and we don’t get or take any of our OL FAs back, I’d like to see:

    LT-Okung/Giacomini
    LG-M.Cannon/Gibson
    C-Unger/JeanPierre
    RG-M.Pouncey/Fanaika
    RT-Andrews/Robinson

    Taking Pouncey with the 1st and Cannon with the 2nd, but know it’d never happen. . .

  44. Hawksince77 says:

    klm,

    Nice post. A couple of comments/concerns. Andrews couldn’t beat Locklear out as a starter at RT, and he was a healthy scratch at the end of the season, plus he gets something like $5mil this year. I don’t see how he can be counted on (by you and me) to be a quality starter at the position next year. That being the case, and given the importance of the position, I think Derek Sharrod or Carimi far better choices at 25. Couple that pick with signing Gallery at RG, resign Spencer to have him and Unger compete for the center positon, and then draft Cannon in the second.

    That’s my recipe for a starting/back-up o-line for Seattle in 2011.

    And yeah, I’d spend my first two picks on the o-line too.

  45. Dukeshire says:

    “”Taking Pouncey with the 1st and Cannon with the 2nd, but know it’d never happen. . . ”

    I hope that “never” happens. This team has far too many holes to spend both a 1st and 2nd on o line.

    And Breno behind Russ? I can only hope he doesn’t make the roster in ’11, let alone back up the LG. At least plug Polumbus in at LG behind Russ.

  46. Dukeshire says:

    *LT* not guard.

  47. Hawksince77-
    Re: Stacy Andrews
    Matt Hasselbeck either leaves in FA this year, or is re-signed and retires in a couple years or maybe becomes the backup. SEA must develop an environment that’s as good as possible for a new franchise QB to be able to be successful in. SEA needs an OL that can not only keep opponent D’s away from the passer, but also be able to create running lanes for their RBs. That’s their most important need right now, OL. That need has increased since ’06.

    Some Andrews background: He played LG for 3 games and also started the final 11 games of ’07 for CIN @ RT. CIN FT’d him in ’08 because of his versatility and effectiveness, but he tore his ACL playing RT thru Wk 16 of the ’08 season and was released the next offseason. Stacy played RT for most of 2 years for CIN.

    Picked up by PHI, he was sposed to play next to his little pro-bowl brother Shawn in ’09, but then it was Shawn’s turn to get “injured”. Stacy’s knee injury from ’08 still wasn’t healed and he needed more practice with PHI’s OL coach on pass-pro, so Max Jean-Gilles replaced him @ OG in week 2 of ’09. Shawn got preseason back problems and depression and ended up going to NYG and Stacy went on to SEA (6 yr/$39M) after PHI got R.Wells from AZ. Stacy was a disappointment to PHI at guard. But he’d only played 3 games @ guard in CIN when they got him. Stacy had told the PHI press that he’d never have signed with PHI if they’d told him he was gonna havta play at guard.

    When SEA got Stacy he’d said he prefered to play tackle rather than guard. Hawks sports writers assumed Stacy would fill in for Okung @ LT at the start of the season and then compete with Lock @ RT after Okung came back. A.Gibbs quit about the same time we got Stacy, so the assistant OL coaches were probably advised to continue with the OL as Gibbs had left it to the extent practicable. They plugged RT Stacy in at RG (without TC), which was out of necessity at the time, because of Unger’s turf toe.

    OG Gibson did a pretty good job of replacing the injured Pitts @ LG, so when Pitts came back @ LG they moved Gibson to RG vs ATL, @ TB, & vs STL. Like KC playing Damion McIntosh @ RT, after he’d played LT all of his career, or trying to move Lock over to LT in ’08 when Walt got hurt and again in ’09, it seldom works to expect to play players out of position especially without much TC practice. They also tend to get injured. Stacy played out of position for most of last season. At least he’s recovered from any previous injuries.

    Now sportswriters are expecting Stacy to be cut because of his salary and less than stellar guard play. If he can pick up the ZBing mental requirements (easier @ RT than RG) and Lock leaves for more $$ in FA, then yes, I’d expect Cable to try to plug in Andrews at RT. http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/35170/pete-carroll-optimistic-on-trade-for-lineman He’s under contract and has played in the ZBing scheme (however poorly) for most of a year. He’s also probably not the final answer for the Hawks “future RT”, since Andrews is already 29 and will likely retire within 4-5 years, if he’s lucky.

    While SEA’s got their future LT with Okung, and if they move Unger to C their future looks good to go @ C, too. But SEA needs both guards and a RT of the future, now (or very soon, depending on whether Matt stays or goes). SEA has lotsa FA OLers, who were neither tendered nor tagged. They will be up for grabs when the ’11 CBA happens and we just can’t expect that SEA will outbid the other ZBing teams for all of them. If JS wanted to have a good chance to keep Spencer, Willis, Polumbus, or C.White, he could have tendered them. He didn’t outright cut them like he did Allen Barbre (who’s now with MIA), but he could have at least tendered them if he thought he wanted to keep them. No tenders at all tells me JS isn’t all that satisfied with them. They didn’t tag Lock, and tendencies are that when players accept cuts to stay with a team, that player and team usually part ways near term.

  48. Hawks must get their ZBing run-game working. Where were the problem run-blocking OL positions last season? Once the runner got past where the OL is sposed to help them, in the open field, SEA ranked 11th. At the 2nd level, where a ZBing OL is sposed to get to and give the runner some help with their blocks, SEA ranked 21st. Overall SEA’s OL run-blocking ranking was 29th. Plus they were dead last in their ‘stuffed’ rank. It’s not their RBs, it’s their OL. SEA’s OL’s ZBing isn’t working. Or maybe, much of the run-blocking problems can be credited to the loss of OL players due to injury and the resulting musical chairs along the OL?

    SEA Position (gap) avg yds / rank / % of total RB carries to that position:
    Left End (D): 3.04 / 30th / 5%
    Left Tackle (B & C): 3.48 / 29th / 17%
    Mid/Guard (A & B): 3.56 / 28th / 43%
    Right Tackle (B & C): 4.22 / 14th / 26%
    Right End (D): 3.13 / 29th / 9%
    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol
    Football Outsiders get their stats from the NFL and wrote in a reply to my question, that there isn’t consistency in what the NFL records as far as which gaps are included in Mid/Guard vs Tackle.

    SEA had their best stats running to the right B&C gaps, between Lock and Andrews/Gibson and/or between Lock and JC. 30 yo Locklear is the common factor, and even though he did have his problems run-blocking at times, it may be difficult for JS to keep him.

    Sean’s ranked 7th overall among FA tackles, and was rated 1st in ProFootballFocus’s RTs in pass-pro. Lock’s knee (or knees?) bothered him last season, and he had a ‘personal’ matter that he missed practice for during the playoffs, but other than that there’s been no words reported by either the team or Lock about wanting to keep him on the team or him wanting to stay. He’s accrued 6 years with the team and wasn’t tagged. If JS is intending to re-sign him, hope that the FA period begins very, very late and there’s no time for other teams to train FA OLers. Even so. . .

    Other ZBing FA RTs include ATL’s 29 yo pro-bowl alt T.Clabo who’s a better run-blocker than Lock and is also very good at pass-pro, DEN’s 26 yo R.Harris who played injured, and OAK’s 31 yo L.Walker who’s a good run-blocker but poor at pass-pro. Walker gave up 44 QB pressures last season. No word on Clabo getting any tenders, and Harris was tendered for original round (3rd rd). If Andrews is SEA’s RT, Stacy might even be better suited to taking on power DEs than Lock in outside run-blocking.

    But if any of Costanzo, Smith, Carimi, Solder or Sherrod should fall to #25, I wouldn’t be too surprised if PC/JS took him there to compete with Andrews. However, if they waited and took a RT in the 2nd (M.Cannon) he’d also likely be their RT of the future. It doesn’t look like all that much of a dropoff in talent between any of them, and with Andrews it doesn’t appear to be as big an immediate need on the OL. If Hawks could land Cannon in the 2nd he could start at RG where he wouldn’t have to worry about getting beat by NFL speed rushers around the outside edge. http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/02/28/ranking-the-free-agents-offensive-tackles/

    If Spencer also leaves in FA, and Unger moves to C, and if Andrews moves to RT for ’11, then there’s a hole at RG. Gibson played OK there after Pitts came back, but ZBing RG Pouncey would be a perfect fit there, for a long, long time.

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