Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Owners, players seek to reduce risk

Post by Eric Williams on March 7, 2011 at 9:35 am with 30 Comments »
March 7, 2011 9:35 am

As NFL owners and players begin negotiations again today, Andrew Brandt of the National Football Post succinctly sums up the issue between the two sides as they try to get a deal done during the 7-day extension of the CBA that ends on Friday, stating it’s all about risk.

The owners want the players to share their risk of operating their professional football franchises. The players want the owners to reduce the health and safety risk associated with playing a violent game. Simply, they both want the other side to reduce the risk.

Peter King of Sports Illustrated provides some interesting perspective from inside the ongoing negotiations between the owners and the players, including a report from colleague Jim Trotter stating the players were on the cusp of decertification last week.

Mike Freeman of CBS Sports writes that federal mediate George Cohen could save football.

CNBC sports business reporter Dan Rovell says it’s time for the owners to open the books.

Greg Gabriel of the National Football Post discusses how medical evaluations can affect a player’s draft stock.

Chad Reuter of NFLDraftScout.com says history tells us it’s unlikely that teams will find an elite-level quarterback outside the top two quarterbacks taken in the draft. For every Tom Brady, there’s a Tony Pike or David Greene dragging down the curve.

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Morning links
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  1. “history tells us it’s unlikely that teams will find an elite-level quarterback outside the top two quarterbacks taken in the draft”

    Interesting article…

    I’d like to see an article that looks at QB trades…seems like that’s the way to reduce risk if you can’t take one of the two top QBs in the draft. Kevin Kolb anyone???

  2. chuck_easton says:

    Audible,

    Let’s say Philly makes Kolb available for trade. First off, why would they? They only have Vick for 1 year on the tender and Kolb is cheap this season. He’ll be making less to hold a clipboard for the Eagles than many other backups. But let’s say they do make him available.

    Are you comfortable with the pending bidding war? It will likely cost Seattle the 25th pick in this year’s draft as well as some other lower pick either this season or next. If Philly wants a 1 and a 2 then Seattle doesn’t draft until the 4th round.

    Is Kolb worth a 1 and another pick? Philly holds all the cards. They either get their price or they hold on to him for another season.

    Then you have the inevitable bidding war between other teams such as the Vikings, 49rs, Arizona, the Bills, the Dolphins…

    The price could get steep. So again. If he’s made available what is your comfort point? It’s great to say “trade for so-and-so” or my favorite “just pay the man” but there are long term ramifications.

    Where does it go from a great idea to ‘they gave up too much?”

  3. I’m still a Whitehurst supporter, so I’d like to see Hass brought back and CW given another chance next year to prove himself.

    Honestly, I don’t know much about Kolb…but the fact is…if CW isn’t the guy and we lose Hasselbeck (in FA or to injury), we have a huge problem at QB.

    Trading a #25 and our 2nd rounder for a “sure thing” at QB is a small price to pay, if we’re fairly certain Kolb is a franchise QB.

    Wouldn’t you trade our #25 and 2nd rounder to snag our choice on QBs in this year’s draft? At least Kolb has turned heads at the pro level, so a trade involving him just might make more sense.

  4. chuck_easton says:

    OK,

    Now I know your comfort point. I don’t have an opinion one way or the other on Kolb. I just remember what Philly was asking for last year when they thought he might be their #1. They wanted 2 first rounders for him.

    I also remember a statement, and I’m paraphrasing here, about how it was much better to give up our 1st round draft pick for a sure thing WR instead of taking our chances with the draft. (Branch….cough, cough). We all know how that trainwreck went.

  5. Dukeshire says:

    Here’s a little background on George Cohen, the mediator between the NFL and NFLPA. Quite a resume.

    http://www.fmcs.gov/internet/itemDetail.asp?categoryID=93&itemID=22319

    The Trotter portion of the Peter King piece was interesting. I’m not sure I fully agree the decertification would have “obliterated the NFL as we know it today” considering they would have reformed and more importantly, would have been sued by the league. Regardless, interesting…

    (Also, the names of his sources weren’t withheld because of the sensitivity involved, as Trotter claims. They were withheld because there is a gag order in place. No player wants to be subpoenaed for violating that, I’m sure.)

  6. Hawks haven’t faired so well with the first round QB’s. Stouffer, McGwire and Mirer never lived up to their billing. Dave Krieg walked on undrated and holds hall of fame numbers. Jim Zorn was undrafted and should never have seen a pro field much less started IMO. So if I offended you close your eyes cause gonna dog the article next. The author of that QB crap must be wet behind the ears. Guess he never heard of Joe Montana 3rd round 1979 4th QB drafted overall. 1968 Ken Stabler 4th
    Some drafts are deep in talent and others bare nothing.
    1983 1 1 John Elway 1 7 Todd Blackledge 1 14 Jim Kelly 1 15 Tony Eason 1 24 Ken O’Brien 1 27 Dan Marino
    OR
    1971 1 1 Jim Plunkett QB 1 2 Archie Manning 1 3 Dan Pastorini 3 56 Lynn Dickey 3 59 Leo Hart 3 67 Ken Anderson 4 99 Joe Theismann

  7. AaronCurryIsBUST says:

    If there is no salary cap in the next CBA we can cut Aaron Curry with no financial repurcussions right??

  8. chuck_easton says:

    ACIB,

    Well the financial reprurcussion is we pay the guy 10 million to not play. His salary is guaranteed for next season. They did do that with Housh last year so it’s not beyond the realm of possiblility. But if they have to pay him anyway they might as well play him.

  9. Dukeshire says:

    Chuck – His salary isn’t guaranteed for ’11. I believe only his $5 mil roster bonus would be. He was guaranteed $34 mil of the $60, which included a $15 mil “second year bonus” he got last year. If they dumped him, they’d save the $5 mil salary he’s scheduled to make in ’11.

  10. chuck_easton says:

    Still alot of money to pay the guy not to play. He’s not worth that money but he’s not shown he’s the type of guy that would voluntarily redo his contract to be paid what he’s actually worth.

    So Either the team pays him 5 million not to play or they pay him 10 million to play.

    That 5 million savings sounds nice unless there is a cap next year.

  11. Dukeshire says:

    Oh, for sure. I’d love if they could trade him, but that contract is so prohibitive. The deal’s been signed and investment made, see what they can get out of him at least for ’11. The last 3 years of his deal are all in the $6-$8 per, range. If he doesn’t progress this next year (which I don’t expect, sadly) I can see them dumping him then.

  12. Soggybuc says:

    Oh definitely have to give him a 3rd year. it is general consensus that it’s year 3 where most players either get it or don’t. this CBA BS hurts him more than others as he really could use the full round of OTA’s and a full camp going into the season.
    i’ll have to look it up but i think Carroll and Norton coached an OK linebacker at USC once. so maybe theres hope.

  13. No amount of coaching is going to get that bum to cover anyone in space. It may help him to not overpursue as much (although I think he’s either too dumb or too entitled/rich to really have to want to care… like some of his tweets this season suggested).

  14. Regarding Aaron Curry,

    I think we overestimate our ability to define his successes and failures. We aren’t always aware of his assignment on any given play. Has he missed tackles? Yes (a clear failure). Has he pressured QBs? Yes (clear success). But on most plays it would be difficult to identify if he did his job… I will admit though, that I would expect a 4th overall selection to be a standout at his position, just like all of you. What’s difficult to pinpoint with him though is his role… I wonder if his role is still undefined. He has immense physical abilities and because of that – immense potential. He is still young so there is still hope. I don’t know if he’ll be a successful 4th overall pick, but he is a servicable linebacker with potential to improve. As for other options… If Herring was better he would have been starting, besides why weaken an already thin position?

    Suggesting he’s dumb is just unfair – I don’t have access to his IQ scores or his grades at Wake Forest, but maybe someone else does, so this is an accurate portrayal for all I know. But failing that type of proof – please keep the personal attacks on OUR players to twitter or some other waste of time… where he can defend himself.

  15. Sarcasticus says:

    “Suggesting he’s dumb is just unfair – I don’t have access to his IQ scores or his grades at Wake Forest, but maybe someone else does, so this is an accurate portrayal for all I know. But failing that type of proof – please keep the personal attacks on OUR players to twitter or some other waste of time… where he can defend himself.”

    You, sir, are a dreamer, and I applaud your attempt.

  16. Dukeshire says:

    Sac_94 – That’s definitely a fair criticism, that we don’t always know his assignments, as fans. Especially in coverage. Playing the run in their base package, it’s not terribly difficult however to presume with some level of certainty, what is asked of him. And it’s there that is the most alarming aspect of his game to me. I know that goes against the grain, the accepted rap is that he’s solid vs the run and awful defending the pass. But after a full season of him at Sam, and seeing him get blocked out of the picture by TEs (yes, despite what Carroll says just watch replays of the games. TEs dominate him far more often than they ever should.), failing to redirect runs back to the middle, overpursue, horrific one-on-one tackling, giving questionable effort, inability to shed blocks from linemen, and so on, It’s these things that make me call him a bust. Add to that his complaints about walk-thrus, playing d line, even their charter plane, all have me wanting him out of Seattle. His talent is undeniable, but he’s done less with it than any player in recent Seattle history. As long as he’s here, I’ll be hoping that changes and he turns the corner, but I’m not holding my breath at this point.

  17. Palerydr says:

    Aaron Currey’s wonderlic score was 24 or 26 conflicting reports out there. If true then this is the same minimum score range that teams look for in a QB. Would like to know Mallett’s score

  18. chuck_easton says:

    I get the distinct impression based on Curry’s Twitter comments he is not happy in Seattle.

    My hunch is that whether we cut him or not he will not re-sign in Seattle after this contract. It’s also pretty clear he’s here for the money and the money only. He doesn’t care about the city, the team or anything but the paycheque.

    He’ll be playing for a team somewhere in the South East in a couple of years.

  19. The wonderlic doesn’t seem like a very accurate measure of a QB’s potential. Who cares if they know the month the fall season changes. They need to be able to read a defense better than I and opt out to an open receiver. Love watching Manning operate like a general commanding troop movement.

    http://www.dailynorseman.com/2011/1/28/1961801/quarterback-drafting-rules-26-27-60
    ^^^You can find the QB draft rule 26, 27, 60% ^^^ BTW Ponder did pass

    All the bashing of Currey yet Tatupu has been given a free ride? NFL stands for Not For Long and he is far from pro bowl potential currently. The leader of a defense that ranks at the bottom of the league. CEO’s would be fired after dividends were awarded. Some here need check down to their pocket book :) and Heater up. Or possibly add a DT with push. Like Paea, here at 25 but small and short arms. Doubt Schneider gives a look but a Raji force in the middle would be great. Free up the middle for our LB’s.

  20. chuck_easton says:

    Excile,

    There is no free ride for Lofa. The fact is he’s the defensive team leader. The entire defense plays better when he’s out there.

    His skills are not what they were a few years ago and the team needs someone to step up. We are lucky that person is already on the roster and you know who he is.

    Lofa should be in the mentor role for at least another year or two and then we move Heater to Mike. And Lofa is the type of team guy that would most likely redo his contract if it meant getting or keeping another good player.

    You can’t say that about Curry who has made several comments about ‘gotta get the money…’ Curry just cares that his weekly check doesn’t bounce. He doesn’t appear to have the desire to make himself a better player, at least for Seattle. He’s the type of guy that will go to another team and then suddenly develop into something great while all the while bashing Seattle and complaining about how mistreated he was while he was collecting that $60 million.

  21. On Curry, I tend to disagree somewhat with the common viewpoint. He is not a bad LB, or a bust. In fact, he’s made many great plays–not just ones where he made incredible open-field tackles on his own to stop a potential big play (I have seen lots of those), but plays where he plugged a gap and pushed the runner either inside, or outside–whichever was best–so someone else could make the play. In fact, one of his better games, he hardly had a tackle–yet every good defensive stop was caused by Curry playing hard, fast, and disciplined.

    That is not to say Curry hasnt been a huge disappointment–he has, for a top-5 pick. But he doesnt play badly. He is however, inconsistent. And THAT is the problem. For someone as fast as he is, he’s rather stiff in the hips, and doesnt cover TE’s very well, for whatever reason.

    I have seen his mind-numbing missed tackles, the overpursuit, the failure to shed blocks. All things I have seen Tatupu be guilty of on an even more regular basis. And even the sainted Hawthorne, who is an incredible athlete, has had his share of missed tackles, failed block-shedding, and mental mistakes leaving huge holes in our D.

    What I see is a defense that hasnt come together, partly from players not trusting each other and being disciplined, partly from the talent gap at certain postions, partly due to injury, and partly–or IMO mostly–due to poor coaching.

    The coaching staff on D is still gelling. Dont know if they will ever get there. Bradley’s defenses are sometimes incredible, yet often inconsistent and too often just plain inneffective. Will that change with a small influx of talent, healed injuries, and more coaching improvement? Hard to say, but I am hopeful.

    I think his Twitter comments have been taken out of context. His comment about “gotta get the money” was referring to someone else, and not a reference to wanting only the money and wishing he wasnt in Seattle. I think some are taking his comments down the road about ten miles.

    Julian Petersen hated Seattle’s weather, yet gave 100% effort. Many players dont care for Seattle, yet loved being Seahawks.

    And I have watched Curry on the sidelines and during games. While he shows his frustration with his own mistakes and his several benchings, I took that as a competitive person frustrated by his struggles and trying desperately to improve, rather than as a pouting kid ready to quit or give so-so effort. And honestly, if his effort was lacking, or he was really stupid, dont you think Caroll would be somewhat candid about that–especially the effort thing? Curry isnt his draft pick, he owes him nothing. So what would he gain by lying? If Curry still has his starting job, its cause he busts his ass and we dont have anyone better.

    Of course he makes too much money. They all do. But it shouldnt hamstring our team, even if theres a return to the salary cap, so who cares?

  22. And as for Lofa, perhaps his two knee surgeries will return him to his Pro Bowl form. Otherwise, its time to start scouting MLB prospects in college, looking for the next Patrick Willis.

  23. AaronCurryIsBUST says:

    These people saying that Aaron Curry isnt bad but just disappointing are laughable. I’ll go over the tape with anyone – Not only is Curry unquestionably a bust, but he’s also literally the worst starting OLB in the NFL.

  24. chuck_easton says:

    Now ACIB,

    Don’t let your dis-like of Curry make you sound uneducated. To say that Curry is LITERALLY the worst starting OLB in the NFL is going a bit far.

    Look at the numbers.

    32 teams = 64 starting OLB’s.

    So you say that Curry is the 64th OLB in all of the NFL? That is a stretch.

    You can dis-like him. You can want him gone (you wouldn’t be alone). But don’t even try to say there is documented proof that he’s the 64th ranked OLB out of 64. Ruins your cred there guy.

  25. Thank you, chuck_easton.

  26. AaronCurryIsBUST says:

    A stretch? Far from it. I’d say it’s even likely. There literally isn’t one thing Curry is horrendously awful at.

    All things considered, he is the worst tackler I saw in the NFL last year. He cannot wrap up, takes absolutely terrible angles, has zero recognition, and the tackles he does make are always after the play is successful for the offense (first down achieved, etc).

    He is undoubtedly the worst coverage linebacker. Literally no instincts or awareness. Is allowing upwards of 90% of passes targeted at him to be completely or something ridiculous like that. Still often fails to make the tackle after allowing the reception. He is a gigantic reason why we are so amazingly bad at defending intermediate passes.

  27. AaronCurryIsBUST says:

    ::Continued::

    Forgot to mention he is also as dumb as a pile of rocks, he literally goes and engages blockers instead of trying to avoid or shed them and making the play. This was most obvious against the Raiders. The fact that he still does this game after game is a testament to what an uncoachable moron this clown is.

    He is a terrible pass rusher. Julian Peterson is still one hundred times better than him at it and he’s around Hasselbeck’s age. The only reason he got a handful of sacks is because he has one of the most attempts at rushing the passer among 4-3 linebackers, if not the most. Curry spent the entire game rushing the passer against the Broncos and his ass was shut down by rookie RT Zane Beadles. He will NEVER be a good pass rusher. He was garbage in college (9 sacks in 4 seasons) and continues to be in the pros. Literally cannot do anything besides bull-rush, and that doesn’t work when you aren’t playing the piece of s*** competion he faced in the joke ACC.

    He is also a lazy and unmotivated son of a b**** who takes plays off all the time? Don’t believe me? Rewatch the games against New York, Oakland, Tampa Bay, Atlanta, San Francisco round 2, among others. This is consistent with his Twitter account where he basically announces to the masses what a greedy and undeserving idiot he is.

  28. AaronCurryIsBUST says:

    I take your resounding silence as an affirmation of what I’ve said.

  29. chuck_easton says:

    Or it is the fact that you have again confirmed your complete lack of knowledge about football so you are no longer worth trying to reason with?

  30. AaronCurryIsBUST says:

    Go ahead, try and refute me. Deep down, you know it’s true.

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