Seahawks Insider

Final: Hawks 31, Panthers 14

Post by Eric Williams on Dec. 5, 2010 at 4:16 pm with 59 Comments »
December 5, 2010 4:16 pm
Seattle Seahawks Lofa Tatupu (51) celebrates scoring a touchdown on an interception return with teammate Junior Siavii (Ted Warren/AP).

Well, this one didn’t look too good early, but here’s the stat you need to know — Carolina had 197 total yards of offense after taking a 14-0 lead early in the second quarter.

But after a stern talking to by defensive coordinator Gus Bradley, the Seahawks held Carolina’s offense to 86 yards the rest of the way, and also kept them off the scoreboard, as Seattle defeated the Panthers 31-14.

Check out the happy totals here.

The Seahawks improve to 6-6 on the season, surpassing the team’s win total from 2009. And they keep up with the St. Louis Rams, who defeated Arizona 19-6 down in the desert.

The Seahawks finally got the run game going, rushing for over 100 yards for the first time this season.

But they suffered some costly injuries, with the team’s top two receivers in Mike Williams (ankle) and Ben Obomanu (wrist) going down, along with reserve cornerback Roy Lewis (knee).

Former Seattle Seahawks defensive tackle Walter Jones, right, puts his hand over his heart as he watches the unveiling of his now-retired jersey number with family members (Elaine Thompson).

Walter Jones’ No. 71 jersey was retired today, so the win was a nice touch with the talented offensive tackle back at Qwest Field.

So what are your thoughts? Can this team get it done down in San Francisco next week? Has the defense got things corrected in stopping the run? What about Matt Hasselbeck — he threw two picks today, and almost a third?

Let us know your thoughts in the comments section.

Categories:
Game coverage
Leave a comment Comments → 59
  1. SandpointHawk says:

    A win…what more can I say…..

  2. Dear Walter Jones,

    Thank you for everything! It was such a pleasure having the honor of watching you play for “my” team all of those years! Enjoy retirement!

    Sincerely,

    bobbyk

  3. We really need to get healthy, we especially need Colin Cole and either Williams or Obomanu back, preferably both. We have a chance next week, Gore being on IR made me believe we could win it, but they have a pretty good defense, and Matt did not look super sharp today, so it’ll be tough. Did anyone else notice, that before Walt got his number retired we were down 0-14, but after the #71 was immortalized we went 31-0? We should do that every week then, lol.

    But, it was a good win, a needed win and at least we could run the ball at points, and stopped it quite well in the second half also. Week 17 might end up being ridiculously exciting and nerve-wrecking.

  4. freedom_X says:

    Someone a few days ago mentioned an football analyst that said something like “Seattle’s going to able to run the ball” or something crazy to that effect. I think that comment was mocked, but sonofagun if that person wasn’t right!

    Will the Tatupu scapegoat brigade show up this week?

  5. DisplacedSeahawkFan says:

    Whoop de do… We beat the worse team in the league today. Needless to say, I’m not excited about this win. This was a game we were supposed to win. That being said, down 14-3 at half, we might not have beat Carolina on the road. We have a lot of issues that San Fran is likely to expose next Sunday.

    Let’s face it, when it comes to injuries, Pete Carol is less than honest. It’s likely that Williams and Obo will both be out against the 49rs, though that won’t be confirmed until game time. With 3 receivers left on the roster, one of them, Tate, a true rookie, who is capable of stepping up? Then there’s our atrocious run game.

    Despite what happened today, our running game is still a mess. Of course we got over a bill on the ground today: we played the worse team in the league. 100 yards rushing won’t come as easy against the 49rs.

    In the first half, our offense and defense were absolutely anemic. Even with this win, we are not playing good football. I don’t like our chances of winning if we get down 14-3 in San Fran.

    Although winning the rest of our games would change my attitude, at this point, I would rather get a higher draft pick than go to post-season. After all, does anyone here really believe we’d beat a wild-card team at home? And if that miracle happens, does anyone believe we’d win a playoff road game?

  6. MattandCindy says:

    I was right in the midst of an aggravated freak out mode, in front of my wife and dog, when things started snowballing in our direction.
    This was absolutely awesome as a win…but we have some SERIOUSLY JACKED UP problems we need to deal with. Even as a Seahawk fan who knew a rebuilding was coming, a potential thrashing from a 1-10 wounded animal would have been a breaking point.

  7. MattandCindy says:

    P.S. – Was it just me, or was Hasselbeck making some mind bogglingly retarded throws? And he’s always messing with that glove…I don’t think it hears what your saying to it, Matty.
    I sure hope that he can function without Williams and Obomanu. We need a General out there damnit.

  8. Yes, they can win at SF. My confidence in whether they actually will or not will depend on the injury situations with BMW and Obo.

    My gut feel is that Williams has a better chance of playing in that game than Obomanu, but that’s just because I can’t imagine a wrist injury that’s simultaneously bad enough to take a receiver out of the game yet recoverable in one week…Hasselbeck can get by with a gimpy left wrist, but I’m not sure a receiver can. Now, please prove me wrong, Mr. Obomanu!!!

    I’d be interested in knowing what PC said to the defensive line on the sidelines during that moment that the cameras caught. That seemed to be the beginning of the defensive turnaround.

    Running game was nice to see. It seemed to me that most of the good runs were toward the outside, though at least one of the TD runs was up the middle. Anyone else notice this, or notice that I am mistaken?

  9. mocarob says:

    You’d rather lose games? loser.

    Also, I’m sure Petey’s primary concern is to let you and the league know who’s going to play each week. Do you work for wikiLeaks?

    We shouldnt try to win the division becuz we cant win a playoff game..
    Have u been drinking?

  10. mocarob says:

    that was for displaced.

  11. DisplacedSeahawkFan says:

    Yo Mocarob consume a phallus. We have no hopes of winning the Superbowl this season; so yes, I would rather lose games this season to get a better team, and be more Superbowl competitive, next season.

    And yes, I’d rather not make the playoffs to get a better first round draft pick then suffer the disgrace of losing to a wild card team at home. I’m not the only one saying this. Really, are you MRDD or what?

  12. Doom and Gloom – We suck. Our offensive line is a joke. Both guards and our other tackle suck donkey balls and while our center is better than that, he’s still no stud. Our only two good WRs are out. Our defense sucks. We have a hard time tackling, Jennings gets beat too often, our run defense is terrible, we get pushed around on the line, and we don’t get enough pressure on the opposing QBs as often as we should.

    Yay, I love life – For all the “blow up this team” talk, the team was “blown up” a half year ago with players like Okung, Thomas, Tate, and Thurmond. That was a good start. Lets enjoy the ride to the potential NFC West title. Lets let this young core feel what it’s like to be in the play-offs so that when we get back we’ll be more ready for taking that next step.

    Aaron Curry went #4 less than two years ago while guys like Michael Oher and Clay Matthews went about 20 picks later. Lets win games!

    Trent Williams, the #4 pick this past year, already looks like crap and a guy (Earl Thomas) about 10 spots later looks to be a stud. Win games now if we can.

    No. I don’t think we’re Super Bowl favorites, but lets actually root for our team on the field instead of hoping they lose.

  13. hawkfan777 says:

    “P.S. – Was it just me, or was Hasselbeck making some mind bogglingly retarded throws?”

    Maybe. It is hard to tell. Hasselbeck is throwing to guys he is not used to throwing to. Look at how Manning threw 3 picks today. That guy has been money the last several years but now that he is playing with back ups that has changed. It makes a huge difference knowing what the receiver is going to do. Matt doesnt have 5-6+ years playing with the same receivers. All of his receivers are new with the exception of Carlson. He is actually playing pretty well considering.

    It is a good win. We should be thankful and move on.

  14. Peyton Manning has thrown 11 interceptions in his last 3 games! Wow.

  15. mocarob says:

    We scored 31 straight points vs an NFL team.
    I don’t have dreams of grandeur but how many would have made you happy?
    41? 51? 61?

    Ravens beat them 37-13
    NYG 31-18
    TB 20-7
    They beat the niners.

    What’s MRDD? anybody?

  16. If we could have lost all of our remaining games, starting today, we could have gotten a high pick and could have gotten to pay them one of those stupid rookie salaries that rookies get paid. This type of salary handicaps teams into not being able to spend as much money on other positions so, yeah, we should have lost today so we wouldn’t have nearly as much to spend on a real free agent offensive or defensive lineman. That’s good reasoning. Isn’t it? lol

  17. DisplacedSeahawkFan says:

    I like Hasselbeck. If everything else was in place, i.e., a consistent O-line, and a consistent running game, he’d still go to pro-bowls. Mike Williams shows what Hasselbeck would be if he had a true #1 receiver. Imagine Hasselbecks numbers if he had Williams and Vincent Jackson. Too much is on Matt’s shoulders though.

    Because of injuries our defense sucks. We have a bad defense and no running game. Given that, of course a QB is going to try to do too much, and throw interceptions regularly. But I don’t blame Matt for that. I say he still has two, or three, years left.

  18. Mr_Fish says:

    Today’s injuries to BMW and Obo weren’t enough to cause a loss to a team as bad as the Panthers.

    But if both of our big receivers is out next week against the Niners, and we lose as a result, it would mean that to finish at 8-8 we’d have to beat Atlanta at Qwest or Tampa Bay on the road. It doesn’t seem likely that we can upset either of those teams.

    So I’ll be anxiously watching the injury reports all week long.

    (OTOH, if we can’t beat teams like Atl or TB, we’ll be one and done in the playoffs anyway.)

  19. Give Matt an above average offensive line and he’ll be fine. Morrah looks like we could have two good TEs (assuming that Carlson is okay these days). That’s a positive.

    Heading into ’11 our starting defensive line, on paper, looks very good. Adding quality depth is of the utmost concern though. Our current group of players after Clemons, Cole, Mebane, and Bryant are pretty brutal. I guess Brock is okay, but after that I don’t think there is even an “okay” player.

    The future does not look bleak.

  20. CHawkFanIn9erLand says:

    This isn’t our first game over 100 yards rushing. Did I read that right? We’ve broken 100 yards earlier this season.

    And for all those people saying lose games so we can get earlier picks, sorry but that makes no sense at all. Winning games, particularly down the stretch, gives confidence and experience to our young players, and a home playoff win would really help give the players and coaching staff a sense that the team is heading in the right direction. PC will earn a lot of credibility if he pulls this off. A win on the road vs SF and at home vs STL will not be easy, but we’ll absolutely have to pull that off to get to the playoffs. Winning this year means something. And picking a few spots earlier doesnt’ always mean anything. A simple look at the history can prove that a team can do very well. It would be a nice step for our franchise, and the mental edge it would give our players and coaching staff during the offseason is better than earning a few spots ahead in the draft. Find one HOF head coach that would suggest that you lose now for a chance to win next year. You won’t find one, and for good reason.

    If BMW isn’t back next week, I don’t think we make it to the post season. We can play without him vs TB and ATL, because we’re going to lose those games anyway IMHO. But we need him against SF and STL.

    Honestly, I think it’s going to come down to our ability to pull off some big plays, because I don’t think we have the better team on an every down basis versus any of our remaining four opponents.

  21. MattandCindy says:

    yeah, hawkfan777…
    He did get thrown to the backups again in terms of receivers, and there were alot of broken routes, slow breaks, etc… It just seems there were times that he just was putting it up there on some longer throws, instead of being pinpoint like you should with back-ups and rookies.
    I’m not really knocking him, he did what was needed. I’m hoping that teams don’t hone in on Williams every passing down because Hass can’t help but go there. Cuz when he’s gone, that 5-6 yrd. pad you can give him disappears
    with our other receivers.

  22. Josh Wilson just intercepted Ben Rapistburger.

  23. williambryan says:

    i think they should consider using Okung a little on defense because the tackle he had on the interception was probably the hardest hit delivered by a seahawk since Ken Hamlin knocked Donte Stallworths helmet off. Okung and Thomas have become my favorite seahawks. I dont know what to think about Hasselbeck… Of course the talent could be better around him but he’s got to be able to make more good plays than bad ones. Lately he has been and today he probably regressed a little. He also is ultimately responsible for not converting the red zone opportunities into TD’s rather than FG’s more often. At this point I dont think he will be resigned unless he can finish a lot stronger and that could be hard depending on what BMW will be able to do the rest of the year.

  24. williambryan says:

    I also think Spencer had his best game in a while, the broadcasters pointed it out a couple times and there was a big push on the runs up the middle.

  25. DisplacedSeahawkFan says:

    We don’t have a young team. So I don’t buy that experience argument. A play off appearance would be good for Pete Carrol, and perhaps, to a marginal extent, our franchise. But we simply aren’t competitive this year. Even if by some miracle we win against a wild card team, does anyone who thinks we should go to the playoffs believe we’ll make it past the divisional playoff round?

    We are re-building. Even though there is no way to know how draft picks will pan out, ultimately (especially when consider Carrol’s advantage in evaluating talent) we’ll fare better with higher draft picks. I would rather have a Superbowl win in a year, or two, then go to the playoffs countless times without getting a SB win.

  26. Dukeshire says:

    True, but they still don’t have a single rusher with a 100 yard game. One of only 3 teams in the league with that distinction.

    The score in the Packers / 9ers game doesn’t reflect how difficult it was for Green Bay. They got some big plays from Driver and Jennings but it was a hard hitting, at times ugly, game. The best thing for Seattle next week is that Gore is out for the season. Seattle will have their hands full and had better player stronger on each line if they are going to win.

    A real nice effort for a team that got it handed to them in every way in the first quarter. Butler made some nice catches and threw some nice blocks. Heater had 14 tackles (he’s has double digit tackles 4 out of last 5 games) and had 3 more sacks. On the flip side, Matt was careless at times, Jennings continues to struggle and ball carriers are still getting too many yards after contact.

    All in all, they have something to build off of for next week and they’ll need it. Todays play won’t be good enough in SF to come out with a win.

  27. Dukeshire says:

    DisplacedSeahawkFan – What is developing into the corp of this team is absolutely young. The “rented” or otherwise stop gap players are not. Whether they have a reasonable chance to make an extended run or not in the playoffs is irrelevant. You take the field each week to win. Period. I asked this earlier today when a similar comment was made about draft position; when has losing ever led to winning championships?

  28. freedom_X says:

    It’s a strange mentality that makes a win seem like a loss.

    1) If someone told you this morning Seattle would win 31-14, would you have taken it? Would you have been disappointed? This is the NFL – there are no Division I-AA teams here.

    2) If someone told you before the season started Seattle would exceed last year’s total of wins, and be in a strong position to win the division in week 13 – would you have taken it? We already knew going into the season the NFC West was weak. But it’s probably not weaker than it was last year. The decline of Arizona is offset by the rise of St. Louis, and Seattle is better.

    3) Does it mean that, if a team can’t win the Super Bowl, then all the teams should tank to get better draft picks? How is it Green Bay can be stocked full of talent despite picking mid round or later every year?

    How is it Detroit still has an abysmal record despite having top 5 picks for what, the past 5+ years every year? Let me tell you – Detroit has talent. But they don’t know how to win. If they can ever get over that hump and get the mental confidence to win, they’ll be a good team again (.500 or better record.)

    It’s worth a 1st round pick for Seattle to regain its winning confidence after two 5-11 seasons. If they can put together a decent winning streak here at the end – even if they don’t make the playoffs – it will give them a lot of confidence and build to the future.

    Maybe St. Louis should give up too and go for draft position, since presumably they have no hope of winning the Super Bowl either? If it doens’t make sense for any other NFL team, why does it make sense for Seattle?

  29. freedom_X says:

    I’m not so sure Jennings is the weak link in the secondary. Trufant is not exactly shutting anyone down. In fact, after the great preseason, Trufant is probably the biggest disappointment in terms of expectations.

    I don’t think any of Seattle’s CB’s particularly stand out (people seem to think Thurmond is great but he looks like a mid-round rookie CB to me, albeit, at times, a promising one.)

  30. Dukeshire says:

    For me, I’m more disappointed in Tru because I have higher expectations for him than Jennings. And while I agree he’s not shutting it down out there, Jennings is simply giving up play after play. I’d really rather see Thurmond starting the rest of the way and take his lumps than to see Jennings continue to give every receiver a n 8 yard cushion and still have them get behind him.

    And yes, I’d have taken that score before the game, but that doesn’t really speak to how those 14 points were achieved. On the surface 31-14 is a beat down but the game didn’t play out that way, obviously.

  31. By no means do I think Thurmond is anything special right now. However, I visualize him getting taken to school here and there and with the experience, and a healthy knee, taking it to a level next year of being a very good NFL CB. He’s not that now. But I can tell the ability is there and, starting next year, he’s going to be a good one for a long time. That’s the only reason I’m giving him a free pass. Looking forward. If some 30-year old CB were playing exactly like Thurmond is right now, I would be wanting change.

  32. drmossguy says:

    I am not a big fan of #8 but what I saw today was one pick that was both the fault of the receiver (#81) not running the correct route and #8 throwing up a turkey.

    The second pick I saw to be 99% the fault of #81 running CLEARLY about 8 yards too deep. I can’t blame Matt for those 2 picks. I thought some of his throws were absolutely beautiful today, but a few, I think the longer balls down the sideline, put receivers in the position to play more defense than offense.

    Obviously he was throwing those picks to where the receiver should have been, which can be argued both ways I suppose. But the better #81 can get at running his routes, the more Matt will trust him.

  33. CHawkFanIn9erLand says:

    Displaced … I would bet that you won’t find one HOF coach or player that agrees with you on your point. Shouldn’t that mean something?

    On to a different topic … I’m happy to see how we’ve won games as a direct result of some of the creative thinking from PC and Schneider. Where would our season be without Leon Washington, if only for his performance against San Diego? Where would we be without BMW? What if no one had thought to move Red to DE? Would we have won in Chicago this year without these moves? Sure, we’ve seen some ugly football, but we’ve also seen more from our FO and HC than under the Mora regime. If they can put together an offseason as effective as last year’s, I really think we’ll be a solid, physical club. I know it’s a big IF, but if they do it two seasons in a row, there’s no reason to believe they won’t do it consistently moving forward as well.

    For that reason, I’m excited. And you know what, this time last year I was anything but excited about the future of Seahawks ball.

  34. “I’m not so sure Jennings is the weak link in the secondary. Trufant is not exactly shutting anyone down. In fact, after the great preseason, Trufant is probably the biggest disappointment in terms of expectations.

    I don’t think any of Seattle’s CB’s particularly stand out (people seem to think Thurmond is great but he looks like a mid-round rookie CB to me, albeit, at times, a promising one.) ”

    Agree with all of that. Tru gives plenty of cushion.

    Read more: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/seahawks/2010/12/05/final-hawks-31-panthers-14/#ixzz17IWqIMgk

  35. DisplacedSeahawkFan says:

    Is it about winning games, or winning Championships? I believe the latter. Only one home team ever, the Sonics, has ever won a pro championship. In my life time, no home pro team has ever won a championship. Doesn’t that bother anyone else? It bothers me.

    After all these years I say damn making it to the playoffs, just to lose. We need to build a championship caliber team. What’s a bad season, or two, towards building one? We don’t have the talent on our roster to compete with a Baltimore Ravens, or Atlanta Falcons, team; and all of you know it!
    We need to rebuild.

    As much as I like Trufant, Tatupu, Milloy, Locklear–I don’t like him that much, etc., they probably wouldn’t be starters on a Superbowl caliber team.
    If we want to win championships, instead of games, we need to replace them. A good way to do that is through high draft picks. I don’t think enough of you look at the big picture–that being a Superbowl win.

  36. Mr_Fish says:

    I’ve said this before, but for the record: I’m not in favor of hoping to lose for the sake of a higher draft pick.

    In my previous comment I just wanted to highlight the importance of next week’s game, and the impact the injuries to BMW and Obo might have. My point was that our chances of finishing at 8-8 (or better) just got worse.

    I’ll bet the Niners would like nothing better than to drive a nail in our coffin. They’re going to be bringing it. If we bring our A game too, it should be an interesting one to watch.

  37. Dukeshire says:

    Yes that bothers me too. But you can’t win Championships without winning games. And this team is in the first season of a total rebuild. If high draft picks were a necessity to build a champion, the Pats, Colts and the Steelers wouldn’t win and be as good as they are year after year.

  38. Dukeshire says:

    As for looking at the big picture, I ask again; when has losing ever led to a Championships? I’m sure the Bills and Lions and 49ers and Raiders would likely disagree with you. Losing breads more losing.

  39. DisplacedSeahawkFan says:

    Dukeshire, you do have a point. I think that P.C. will eventually turn this franchise around; but I think higher draft picks, instead of an extra win, or two, this season, will go further in helping him achieve that end.

  40. rramstad says:

    I’m totally finished listening to anyone who says we need to lose to win.

    Losing creates losers.

    Winning creates winners.

    I want a bunch of winners on my Seahawks.

    Period, end of story.

  41. In that scenario, I think we can have our cake and eat it too.

    We can win now.

    And we can draft like we’re picking higher in the draft. This comes by way of, seemingly, having a better scouting department. It’s not so much having high picks, it’s rather what you do with those picks when it comes your turn to draft. Based on Okung, Thomas, Tate, and Thurmond (I’m excited to see what Chancellor can do too), I am excited that our staff can/will start drafting some better, overall, players. Ruskell, on average, was getting a couple decent players per year whereas it looks like we’re going to get 4-6 good players from this draft. That’s how you build a winner! And I like it!

  42. Dukeshire says:

    I hear your point and would probably be inclined to agree with you if they were sacrificing young talent for veterans in an effort to simply win this season. I don’t see that, however. Guys like Okung, Thomas, Thurmond, Lynch (25 years old) Tate, Hawthorne, Curry etc… (and others that will likely be here for a while and are important contributors now, for good or ill) need to know that winning is expected. This is why I’m glad players like B. Marshall weren’t brought in for simply a one or two year run. As I see it, a foundation is being built and any wins they get this season are a bonus. And a playoff experience? There’s your standard. Any player they draft or bring in needs to know that’s what expected. That and more (like a Super Bowl as the talent increases).

  43. Dukeshire says:

    That was to Displaced.

  44. bayareahawkfan says:

    Yeah Duke just perfectly summarized the flaw in the “tank for better draft position” argument: if it were that simple you would see worst-to-first all the time.

    The organizations mentioned at the end of Duke’s post argue otherwise.

    How about this: keep winning this year, and win even more next year? No reason at can’t happen.

    As i type this, another Former Seahawk makes a play – Redding sacks Roethlisburglar…

  45. 2005
    1. Spencer — he doesn’t suck anymore, but there were a bunch of years he wasn’t helping us much either.
    2. Lofa — good, solid player.
    3. Hill — was fine. Injuries and stupidity have shelved him.

    2006
    This is the type of draft that dooms a franchise. That’s not a compliment, Ruskell.

    2007
    1. We got ripped off on the Branch trade.
    2. Wilson — good use of 2nd rounder.
    3. Mebane — great use of 3rd rounder.
    Ultimately, you need more than a good 2nd, 3rd, and 5th rounder (Herring) from an entire draft. Nothing against Herring, but if he’s the third best player in your draft class, that’s not good (I really do like him though).

    2008
    1. LoJack — Bust.
    2. Carlson — okay.
    4. Big Red — Looked like a bust at this time last year, but has clearly played himself into being the stud of this draft class.
    7. Yoda — I struggle to give Ruskell credit for this pick simply because we released him and kept Coutu. The only way we got him back was because the Colts had severe injury problems and had to release them themselves.
    Even with Yoda, this is not an overly impressive draft class. It’s nothing against Carlson, Big Red, or Force… it’s just that it’d be nice to consistently get 4 good contributors so there isn’t so much duct tape happening each year.

    2009
    1. Curry — It’s too early to call him a bust, but I think all of us can come up with plenty of players that we would have liked for the team to have drafted instead.
    2. Unger — Too early to label, but I do think he still has a strong career as a Center in this league.
    3. Butler — Again, too early to tell, but the early returns aren’t overly promising.
    7. Morrah — Could end up being a solid player/find.
    It’s too early to really grade this draft, but the early returns aren’t what we hoped for or expected a year and a half ago.

    2010 Draft
    Sure, Mr. Happy and Bo got an extra 1st rounder from Ruskell (but didn’t have a 3rd rounder) but they did something in 1 year that Ruskell couldn’t do with having 1st round picks from ’05-’09 — they drafted cornerstone players. Okung is going to anchor the OL at a Pro Bowl level for a decade and Thomas is going to do likewise in the secondary. I am a huge Tate supporter and know he’s going to turn out fine and from what I have seen of Thurmond (see earlier post). This is going to be a draft that will give us 4-6 good contributors (nevermind getting Leon Washington). I don’t expect drafts to always be this good, but I do expect them to be better than the average Ruskell draft. They have to be if we’re going to get really good again.

    If Ruskell would have had an early pick like Curry in ’09 every year, I would rather draft in a bad position with good scouts than draft early with drafting crappy players.

  46. DisplacedSeahawkFan says:

    I mean, I’m trying to agree to disagree with you, but I don’t buy that ‘winning is expected’ is a valid argument. What player expects to lose? Players like that get weeded out.

    And I’m not suggesting that losing games to get better draft picks becomes our permanent philosophy. All I’m saying is that this season is a wash. At 8-8, or 7-9, I don’ think we deserve to go to the playoffs. And although I would want us to win if we did go to the playoffs with such a record, I wouldn’t be surprised when we lost.

    We are not very good this season. Is the best way for us to improve next season to go to the playoffs and get knocked out the first round? Or do we have a better chance of improving by not making the playoffs, because at this point we don’t deserve to go, and getting better draft picks? Obviously, I think the latter. And frankly, without a bunch of speculation, I don’t understand how you can think otherwise.

  47. DisplacedSeahawkFan says:

    (edit)

    I’m trying to agree to disagree with you, but I don’t buy that ‘winning is expected’ argument. What player expects to lose? Players like that get weeded out.

    And I’m not suggesting that losing games to get better draft picks becomes our permanent philosophy. All I’m saying is that this season is a wash. At 8-8, or 7-9, I don’ think we deserve to go to the playoffs. Although I would want us to win if we did go to the playoffs, at 8-8, or 7-9, I wouldn’t be surprised when we lost.

    We are not very good this season. Is the best way for us to improve next season to go to the playoffs and get knocked out the first round? Or do we have a better chance of improving by not making the playoffs, and getting better draft picks. Obviously, I think the latter. And frankly, without a bunch of speculation, I don’t understand how people think otherwise.

    Read more: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/seahawks/2010/12/05/final-hawks-31-panthers-14/#ixzz17IquDJCm

  48. CHawkFanIn9erLand says:

    Displaced … I”m sorry, I think Duke is being nice when he says he sees your point. There is not one reputable professional athlete, coach, or organization that has ever developed a strategy of “Let’s lose in order to build a winning culture”. Sorry man, it doesn’t work, it’s just lunacy. Winning is an attitude, an expectation, a culture. The patriots play beyond their draft position every year. Every year. Your theory is disproven constantly in real life.

    Sorry man, but I will not ever, ever, consider or accept a theory that has such a preponderance of evidence against it. There is nothing in real life that supports your theory, and a ton of evidence that proves the exact opposite.

    True champions hate losing so much that they just can’t bear to do it. It hurts, and it’s unacceptable. Champions can’t turn that off. Try convincing Peyton Manning to lose the rest of his games, since his team is basically out of the playoffs. If his coaches told him that, he’d be livid. And you know what …

    If that wasn’t his response, he wouldn’t be Peyton Manning.

    Sorry bud, but the math —- and history — make a very clear case that you’re wrong.

    Losing on purpose is something that losers do.

  49. I think the Houston Rockets really did do this (lose on purpose) in the mid-80s when they wanted one of their big men (I think Hakeem Olajuwon). I think that’s part of the reason the NBA went with the lottery system. This is the only scenario where I would root against my team (to secure the #1 overall pick if there was a franchise player available). To be honest, if Luck is as good as some thinks he is, and if I were a Carolina fan — then and only then would I view losing as acceptable (or even root for my team to lose). But if it’s a draft class with no clear cut #1 player, then I say win-win-win.

  50. Dukeshire says:

    I am trying to be tactful. Having high draft picks each of the last two seasons has gotten this team where? What one does with their pick is far more important than where that pick is.

    The best way for this team to improve is to make an effort to win each and every game they play, every time. Regardless where that leads. Intentionally tanking games because there’s concern they may not win in the playoffs is a losers mentality, with all due respect.

    Victory in the NFL is so precious and are so difficult to get, no player or coach worth their salt would treat them carelessly. If you are trying to build a culture of winning, you need to win.

    This team has a chance to win the division and they better damn well try to. And I know Carroll will pour everything he has into making Seattle a Champion at every opportunity.

  51. DisplacedSeahawkFan says:

    CHawkfan(whatever the rest of your dumb ass name is) Get off of Duke’s huevos. If you want to argue with me do so on your own behalf, don’t try to obtain credit by d-riding someone else. Secondly, you don’t know every reputable professional athlete, coach, or organization, so don’t try to front like you do. And you’re not anyone to me, so I don’t care what you accept.

    A ‘true champion,’ hah! Don’t make me talk about your mother.

  52. CHawkFanIn9erLand says:

    Right, and they won the championship 10 years later, only after changing the coach, and the culture. When the pistons beat the lakers in the finals, did they do it by getting the best player? Nope, they did it by changing the culture. The rockets were eliminated in the first round of the playoffs in five straight years with Hakeem. They made it to the NBA finals once and lost. It was in Hakeem’s 11th season that they finally turned the corner, and it was the role players that made the difference, people like Robert Horry.

  53. akmac63 says:

    After the horror of the end of last season when the team mailed it in with insufficient postage, I cannot believe that any real fan would suggest bagging the rest of the season for a higher draft position. Since only one team will win the Superbowl, maybe 31 teams should just vote on the winner at the start of the season and take the rest of the season off.
    The Seahawks need to learn to play as a team under pressure, the best way to do that is to play as far into the season as possible. Who cares if they lose in the playoffs as long as they get there or at least play like they are trying.
    Too many fans are sold on the idea that only early first round draft picks are any good. If you look around the league there are quite a few undrafted free agents contributing to teams not to mention middle round picks.

  54. bird_spit says:

    Win Now (period). Any opportunity to hang the banner at Qwest, you take it. I want nothing but a winning tradition. Like it has been said, I’d take a 21st pick in a winning organization than a 14th pick in a looser organization. Accept losing, and it is poison to any organization, whether it is a pro sports team or a fortune 500 company. Companies that accept loosing, are morally corrupt, and at best will limit the height of what is potentially possible. Besides, one draft selection will not determine if the Seahawks are winners or mediocre next season. Winning attitude and being emotionally strong can make the “team” a winner next year.

  55. CHawkFanIn9erLand says:

    LOL. Displaced, that last post was about as intelligent as the others I’ve seen from you. When logic doesn’t support your argument, by all means start in with the personal attacks. Stay thirsty, my friend.

    And just so you don’t twist my words, I’m not suggesting that I’m the most interesting man in the world. :D

  56. CHawkFanIn9erLand – What the hell is your problem? I am on your side! Haven’t you read my comments? We both want the Hawks to win the division and get to the play-offs! I/we agree on that!

    I was just stating an obvious fact (that that’s what Houston did). And if I were Carolina, I would hope to lose if Luck is as good as advertised (and they will be overhauling their staff this off-season — Fox will NOT return).

    Go psycho on the person who disagrees on you; not the one who’s on your side for the most part.

  57. CHawkFanIn9erLand says:

    sorry bobbyk, I didn’t mean to sound like a prick there, I meant my comment as continuation of your line of thinking, didnt’t meant to sound argumentative. No offense meant bro, my bad. I was agreeing with your point as well, and just meant that your point was well made, and that their results proved your point as well.

    Sometimes written text comes off different that it is meant. Sorry bro. Really, I didn’t mean it like that.

    Much respect.

  58. We both think the same way and I *think* we’re both right (as the others who believe we should win-win-win).

    My only kink in the armor is if we were 1-12 and another team was 2-11 and there was a John Elway type of franchise savior to be had with the #1 pick. I really don’t care about the difference of drafting 6 or 16 or 26.

    Sorry for the ‘psycho’ comment. Ahhh — hugs to go around — lol — :)

    No problem. Go Hawks! Win the dang division! Make people even more mad by winning our home play-off game! Tick ‘em off even more by winning the following weekend on the road! Shock the world and make Tony Dungy a prophet for his comments about a month ago! lol

  59. surelyyoujest says:

    For the record, Matt’s first pick was due to him being crushed just as he was delivering the ball (Gibson missed his block completely). The receiver was open, and given time, Matt likely drops that one in for a TD. Second pick was either a route run too deep, or the DB just making a good play. You can put the second one on Matt maybe….but the first one was on Gibson.

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