Seahawks Insider

Morning links: Wilson happy to be a Raven

Post by Eric Williams on Sep. 1, 2010 at 7:56 am with 112 Comments »
September 1, 2010 9:54 am

Former Seattle Seahawks cornerback talked to Jamison Henley of the Baltimore Sun about the trade that sent him to Baltimore. And Wilson said he was pleased to be headed back to his old stomping grounds, along with playing a playoff contender.

“I couldn’t be happier. You never expect it, but you know it always can happen. But if it had to happen, you’re going to a Super Bowl contender and play on a defense like this. If it has to happen, I don’t think I can get a better situation.”

Rob Rang of NFLDraftScout.com says Wilson and Seahawks defensive end Chris Clemons as potential breakout players this season.

Clare Farnsworth of Seahawks.com says Wilson is happy to headed back home.

Former Seahawks long snapper Matt Overton signed with the Omaha Nighthawks of the UFL.

Miami defensive end Kendall Langford lost a diamond earring he forgot to take off on the practice field that he said was nearly 2.5 carats, and reported to be worth nearly $50,000. Langford, along with several of his teammates looked for the earring after practice, but had to give up his search to attend a meeting. The grounds crew mowed the lawn soon after.

While the Seahawks continue to make moves they believe improve their chances to win long term, the window seems to be closing for the Arizona Cardinals. The latest from down in the desert is quarterback Matt Leinart asserting that he has outplayed Derek Anderson, even though Anderson will likely be the starter for the Cardinals.

Rumor has it Lineart is now being shopped around the league as potential trade bait.

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Leave a comment Comments → 112
  1. Good luck, Mr. Wilson.

  2. trout_hound says:

    I’m happy that Josh gets to go home and play for a contender, but what a horrible PR move for the Seahawks rookie front office that has surely alienated legions of fans. I think Wilson was far and away one of the most popular players on the team, the J-Force of the defense. This guy was a proven playmaker, and exciting as hell to watch. What has Jennings done with a game on the line except get burned? Maybe if they would have traded Wilson for a starting caliber lineman we could maybe understand. Fans like me are tired of always being the laughingstock of the league, and it really sucks when we are laughed at for personnel moves and not just how we play on Sundays.

  3. Ewalters7354 says:

    I really admire the effort the FO is putting forth to make this a successful franchise.Wilson being gone is kind of aggravating because he was a solid player,but i have confidence in the young guys Thurmond and Lewis.i just hope and pray they are not sold on Jennings.1pick in 4 seasons for a first round pick is an official bust in my books.That damn Ruskell.

  4. “Rumor has it Lineart is now being shopped around the league as potential trade bait.”

    Please, Coach Carrol, do not flip the draft pick you got for Josh Wilson into a trade for Matt Leinart. Wilson represented what I like to see in a football player – aggressiveness, toughness, smarts, intangibles, playmaking. Leinart represents everything I dislike about millionaire athletes. Leinart can’t understand why his coach is pushing him to compete with Derek Anderson. Leinart thinks he deserves to start since he’s on the cover of magazines and his hair looks great.

  5. variable575 says:

    Reading how PC said it was such a good deal they couldn’t turn it down interests me. Was this the first deal they were approached with? PC also made it seem like they were not shopping JW if I remember correctly. “So, if a team comes for him, and you have a market brewing with Baltimore, New England, and the Packers, all needing a serviceable(more than that) DB, why wouldn’t you wait and not jump on the first offer made. If that is indeed what happened.

    PC…………..Patience is a virtue in this league, hope you come to understand when it is needed with future transactions.

  6. Ewalters7354 says:

    Ok,Wilson was a solid player,but I also remember him getting burned alot last season.Just because a person makes plays against bad teams doesn’t make him a cornerstone.Jennings is garbage bag and Wilson is solid but undersized,so lets see what the young guys can do.Maybe Thurmond can be a steal as well as Lewis.Also,can we trade Babs already!

  7. Ewalters, I think Babs just became more important on this roster. Babs has played nickel CB, Lewis is unproven and Thurmond is still rehabbing. I think Babs was likely on the list to get cut, but I think they just saved his bacon.

  8. HawkyHann says:

    I’m very happy Wilson is gone. Now please get rid of Babs ASAP-he sucks bad-watch the film, and Jennings.

    Lets go Walter!!!

  9. chuck_easton says:

    I hate to bring the dreaded S word into this (um, whisper, size, cough, cough, size…there I said it), but I think the deciding factor may be just that.

    Josh Wilson is 5’9″ and that supposedly is generous. Yes he’s tipping the scales at close to 200 lbs but he looks small out there.

    Jennings is 5’11” so he LOOKS bigger. Problem is he weighs about 170 soaking wet and with a pocket full of change. He gets thrown around like a rag doll because he just doesn’t have the weight. But he LOOKS the part.

    As someone who is also 5’9″ tall (and I’m being generous with myself as well as I am probably closer to 5’8 3/4″) I understand. My whole life I have been told I’m a good athelete but I’m too short to do X on the field.

    Anyone who has watched the Seahawks play the past couple of years knows that Wilson plays bigger than his height and Jennings plays much smaller than his.

    But to the new coaching staff I’m afraid they just saw the height difference and went with the taller guy. I hope I’m wrong but that chip on my shoulder is telling me this had alot to do with the decision.

  10. Your link to Rob Rangs article isn’t right. Sends me to Jay Glazer.

  11. Ewalters7354 says:

    Stevo,I agree.I just hate that even when he plays nickle he still sucks.I would rather take a chance on Lewis or Thurmond being that they can’t be any worse than Babs. @Chuck,I absolutely agree about Jennings.He is always getting abused,burned,and always losing his job.i have seen the guy be in perfect position to make plays,and get thrown out of the way.Thats a shame.

  12. Quelly: Thanks. I fixed it.

  13. Rang link

    http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/view/13682485

    I always assumed chuck_easton was Chad Eaton, just in a horrible e-disguise.

  14. I’ve been sitting here wondering – does Leinart become a Seahawk before or after the final preseason game?

  15. chuck_easton says:

    pabuwal,

    You are definitely stuck on that Leinart thing! :)

    Well, either you are going to look like the genius or you will come off looking like that crazy guy on the bus who continues to have an animated conversation with himself.

    Time will tell. Until then I, for one, will not tell you your idea is dumb. Not with what has gone on with the Seahawks in the last 24 hours.

  16. I can see some of the logic supporting Wilson as being expendable… what I don’t understand is making a trade of your STARTING CB for an unproven fifth round draft choice… … the dollars and ‘sense’ don’t add up….

  17. bird_spit says:

    I wish there was a stat for number of man on man plays vs your man was thrown to. I would bet Kelly Jennings does not get targeted as much as Josh Wilson.

    That said, if we plan to keep a smallish CB, let it be Jennings. Jennings second year is probably the only good year you can evaluate him. He did not start his rookie year, barely played. Second year, he got targeted and we all screamed. His third year he played with broken ribs. Last year, when he played, we had no pass rush. Jennings can cover man to man way better than JW. JW plays zone better due to his quickness.

    I like Josh Wilson, and hope he does as well for the ravens as you all expect he would have done for us. Then it is a 4th round draft pick. If he plays like I think he will, it will be a 5th round draft pick. Either way, Hawks get better.

  18. stigmata says:

    Chuck, I’m 100% certain that the Wilson move had ZERO to do with the front office valuing Jennings more than Wilson due to his height. Both Jennings and Wilson will be hitting the FA market next season, and had a team made a good offer for Jennings, I’d be willing to bet that he would have been traded. But Jennings has absolutely no trade value due to his spotty (at best) play. So they moved Wilson in order to get value for a guy who was likely to depart or demand a bigger contract next season.

    I think the driving factor for this trade was less Jennings over Wilson and more that the front office has a great deal of confidence in Walter Thurmond being able to start at CB next year. Jennings will not be re-signed after this season, I can almost guarantee you that.

    This is a pattern the team has developed, and has demonstrated with the Tapp, Sims, and now Wilson trades. They aren’t afraid to move guys who are in the final year of their contracts if there is a market for them. And given that we’ve only won 9 games in 2 years, and that many of the players we had don’t fit the mold of what Carroll and Schneider value in their players, it’s hardly surprising to see such a roster purge.

    Admittedly, it is hard to see some of our better guys leave while some of the favorite whipping boys stick, but if we as fans can tell that a player is awful, what makes anyone think that opposing teams’ GMs can’t tell that same thing? So we get stuck with the camp bodies and subpar guys until we can replace them with guys that Carroll and Schneider can hand-pick. And those unpopular trades are a way the FO uses to collect draft picks in order to make those new player selections.

  19. nighthawk2 says:

    Yes, I’m sure Josh Wilson is very happy to go back to Maryland and play for a team that is likely to be the AFC champion. They seem to have a front office that knows what they’re doing; we don’t. Wilson was probably the best corner on this team. Trufant has sucked the last several seasons, and he still looks like he’s giving 10 yard cushions to any receiver. Although he played pretty well for the most part this pre-season. Jennings has sucked from Day 1 and will always suck. Babineaux sucks as a starter, or as a reserve. Thurmond looks good but the knee worries me. The idea of Jennings being on the roster after next weekend, let alone starting, makes me ill. Ditto Spencer and Julius Jones. Is there no way to package Jennings and Jones and get a real cornerback from someone? Well, we can scour the releases by other teams next weekend I suppose.

  20. Norseman says:

    pete and john likely identified josh wilson last spring as a player they would move over the long term, or sooner under the right circumstances (effective play from thurmond, thomas, etc; and appropriate return compensation). if thurmond hadn’t so far worked out, and thomas ended up being a disaster, i’m sure they would have kept wilson. pete carroll has mentioned several times that he likes big physical corners, and jw, while talented, is neither. his long term viability in the hawks defense was probably being looked at in march…and while not shopping him around, the ravens provided the opportunity to move him for a 4-5th round pick. for a 4th year, 2nd round (but not elite) player, that’s acceptable.

  21. Ewalters7354 says:

    Did you just say Trufant sucked the past few seasons??Last time I checked in 08 quarterbacks didn’t throw much to his side,and last year the guy had a back issue. You say Trufant is giving a 10 yard cushion,you must have not been watching Wilson.He was playing soft with a cushion more than any other corner.Also,did you see how easy Benard Berrian got passed him?Had he just put his arms out he would have easily had a touchdown.

  22. ljarllrajl says:

    My opinion on the whole thing is if this turns out to be a 4th rounder then it is a great trade. If it’s a 5th, it’s still a good trade. Here’s why:

    1. 4th round picks allow to trade up in the 2nd round and sometimes into the end of the 1st round.

    2. Wilson has higher trade value than Jennings and lower upside than Thurmond.

    3. Jennings is better in man coverage while Wilson is better in zone. Hawks want to run a man based scheme, Ravens run a zone blitz scheme. Plus as much flack as Jennings gets when covering 6’5 freaks of nature, he does a very good job covering smaller quicker receivers, like Santana Moss or Devin Hester, that even Trufant may have some difficulty covering.

    4. Wilson’s lack of size I don’t think was an issue in the least. Unless you bring in Revis or Asomugha any cornerback in the league is gonna bounce off of Larry Fitzgerald when trying to make a play on him.

    5. FO clearly feels like they have depth at the position and this is a text book way of leveraging that depth.

    On a side note, I was really interested to see if FA Josh Pinkard play at this level to see if he could adjust to the speed of the NFL. It’s disappointing that his injury hasn’t allowed us to get a look at him. He’s got the size of a safety and just mauls receivers with his monstrously long gorilla arms in coverage.

  23. Dukeshire says:

    Hear hear Nighthawk.

    Stevos – If anything signals an awful personnel decision more than Babineaux becoming more important after a move, I love to know what it is. Wrong direction fellas.

    pabuwal – Not happening. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5518740

    chuck_easton – You have hit on something that concerns me a great deal; the compete / performance talk is just that, talk. Because this particular move reeks of one made with a tape measure rather than actual talent and performance analysis. A prototype vs reality. As I said in the previous thread, a black mark on Schneider’s pro personnel evaluations.

  24. Has anyone found the stats on CBs yet? Who was the fellow that would come and do a stat dump on the most detailed, obscure stats around to settle discussions? We need him here today.

  25. Dukeshire says:

    pabuwal – What sats are you looking for that you cannot find?

    Ewalters7354 – I’m not sure you’ve been watching the games. “Also,did you see how easy Benard Berrian got passed him?” What game is that, exactly? Last week where he had 1 catch for 8 yards? Or last season where he had 2 for 11 yards?

  26. HawkyHann says:

    Wilson=smurf. 6 ints in 3 years. Thats OK but lets look at how many times he blew coverage or got posted up on. Free agent next season, we’d let him walk anyways because he’s going to demand more than he’s worth. Let Baltimore figure that gamble out. Good job John, you did get fair market value-5th round pick. We got something we wouldnt have had he remained a hawk this year.

    Whats next? Exciting things to happen over next few days….

  27. Wow, fieldgulls is in full on tantrum mode. Here is sane by comparison.

    Stigmata said – They aren’t afraid to move guys who are in the final year of their contracts if there is a market for them. And given that we’ve only won 9 games in 2 years, and that many of the players we had don’t fit the mold of what Carroll and Schneider value in their players, it’s hardly surprising to see such a roster purge.

    Well said.

    Josh Wilson wasn’t the piece that was sending the Seahawks to the super bowl this year or ever. Probably wasn’t a starter this season, and definitely wasn’t gonna be next season. And while his style of play allowed him to ball hawk, it and his size led to a lot of receptions a better player. Him gone may not make them better early, but I bet it does late and next season, with or without the draft pick.

  28. * a better player would have had a better opportunity to defend.

  29. ljarllrajl says:

    lol. Trufant isn’t the only cornerback on the team to start 10 yards off of a receiver at the snap. He’s doing that because he’s either playing the deep zone in a cover 3 or cover 4, or feigning the deep zone to confuse the quarterback and coming up at the last second or after the snap to play man on the receiver or a cover 2 flat or sink coverage. Either way it’s not really his call, it’s the coaching staffs.

  30. Fieldgulls was in rage mode after the trade of Darryl Tapp. Tapp only makes the Eagles if they don’t have a good read on Cole’s injury. They have their favorite players and they run with it.

    The stats I am looking for show how many times a CB was thrown at, passes completed, INTs, TDs, passes defended and total snaps. They are not official stats but I have seen them around. I would love to compare Jennings with Wilson.

  31. If I’m not mistaken, aren’t the Hawks planning on lining the CBs at the line more,if this is correct, wouldn’t JW’s speed and physicality be an asset? Jennings will get run over every time. Also, Thurmond and Lewis are looking good as prospects, but thats it, they might end up being great, but right now, aren’t we still playing in preseason. I’m even more scared now for opening day..

  32. BobbyAyala says:

    From the Duke yesterday: “That all sounds reasonable except for the part where he was beat out by Jennings. There is simply no way that is the case. We all saw the games. So please, let’s be honest. This is a comment on what they see in Thurmond, not Jennings.”

    Duke, you’re much, much smarter than to assume because “we watch the games” that we have a better read on the actual football on the field than the coaches who spend their lives evaluating these players.

    I’m always skeptical of fans who want to judge defensive back play, number 1, because the television view we get doesn’t allow us to see what’s happening in the defensive backfield until the ball reaches that portion of the field.

    No fan with a television set should ever assume he or she can evaluate players better than a coaching staff.

    That said, you’re right, this is about Thurmond.

    He’s first-round talent with a frame that Carroll covets. He’s going to get the long term deal that Wilson would’ve commanded this offseason.

    Jennings, meanwhile, is an incredible smart and humble player, the type of guy football coaches love.

    He’s pretty damn good in bump-and-run coverage as well.

    Roll back Jennings’ tape at Miami. He played almost exclusively in bump-and-run, and did quite well.

    ONce he got to Seattle he got locked into zone schemes and he didn’t do as well.

    Carroll plays a lot of bump-and-run.

    This is a move that will be widely panned up front, and proven to be prudent down the road.

  33. zombiehooliganfc says:

    Did I miss the part where Wilson was a fan favorite and a top-tier old-timer? He was a twerp that had some nice plays, he wasn’t all that great or all that bad, which we have a lot of on this team. Now if they can just jettison Jennings, we may actually have some CB’s that can see over their steering wheels. A bad PR move? Really? Perspective, please.

  34. Dukeshire says:

    HawkyHann – “Wilson=smurf. 6 ints in 3 years. Thats OK but lets look at how many times he blew coverage or got posted up on.” Okay. Well, how many. Or is the innuendo alone satisfy they argument?

    JoSCh – That’s a false argument. Of course they aren’t going to the Super Bowl this season. It’s about the future. And whether he’s a “starter” or not is also irrelevant. His best position is nickel and with Thurmond presumably taking the spot opposite Tru, that allows him to play his best position. Tru, Pistol, Thurmond is far superior to any combination they have now. So as a result, it becomes a position the team has to address when it was already set in year one of the rebuild and for seasons to come. That’s the issue (or at least one of them).

    pabuwal – Yes, I’ve seen them too. I’ll look around and see what I can come up with.

  35. BobbyAyala — I think that is the first time you have posted something I totally agree with – nicely stated!!

  36. BobbyAyala says:

    “But to the new coaching staff I’m afraid they just saw the height difference and went with the taller guy.”

    Are you freaking kidding me?

    Pete Carroll was hired January 11th.

    He’s watched ever second of football Kelly Jennings and Josh Wilson have played in Seattle, and unlike you, he had the full 22 view.

    This is just insane.

    People, have the slightest bit of faith in your coaching staff.

    Please.

  37. Your starting corner for a 5th rounder? Well, if we are deciding to trade our starters for potentials and draft picks, why stop at Wilson, lets get rid of all are old vets (2yrs, 25 yrs old?) for 5th rounders. Oh yeah, Jennings playing bump and run at 170? This isn’t college anymore.

  38. BobbyAyala says:

    Yeah, he did.

    Ask Miami fans.

    When Jennings was drafted I wrote a story on him and talked to 25 or so diehard hurricane fans on scout’s cane website.

    It was darn hard to get one person to say one bad thing about Kelly Jennings.

    Miami played agressive, press coverage and Jennings did well.

    He has speed and smarts.

    He’s not a bruiser, he’s not a leaper, but he has the ability to play tight, press coverage.

    But again, this isn’t about Jennings.

    Jennings is our nickel corner.

    This is all about Walter Thurmond.

  39. I think some people need to realize that this is a new regime of football minds, and just because they don’t see the same thing in terms of talent that the fans do, does not make their evaluations, or vision of how they’re going build the team incorrect.

    Think about it, this regime moved Mansfield Wrotto from G to T, and while the jury is still out, I shrewd move to find value in a guy that was not capable of claiming a starting G job in the worst of times. They moved Red Bryant from DT to DE, from backup to starter and is looking brilliant. The move down in the draft that netted Walter Thurmond-an educated gamble on a 1st round talent, that also netted Kevin Vickerson 6 5 321, and to me looks like a replacement for Cole. Say what you want about Whitehurst, but he has shown flashes of poise and a big arm that completely warrants everything they gave up for him, QBs struggle, remember #8 when he first came here? He was terrible-and we booed him.

    Chris Clemons has looked like a nice little find, and also netted us a draft pick. Leon Washington might just make that incredible recovery to give us a very cheap playmaker.

    How about the fact that we are playing Lawyer Milloy and he’s crushing people, rather than relegating him to special teams?

    The GM from Green Bay managed to put together a pretty good secondary, any of you ever watch the Green Bay vs. Seattle playoff games?

    Don’t be a Seattle Mariners fan. Don’t get sentimental about “guys”, because they’re your “guys”. Let’s build this thing, and quit whining about want it to build it your way, with your guys.

  40. BobbyAyala says:

    olsonc:

    PREACH!!!!!

  41. ljarllrajl says:

    Jennings had one bad year due to injury and he’s a whipping boy. lol
    I was as guilty as anyone but it was clear to me last season that he played very well. In fact, here is some random fantasy football website that rates match ups versus corners and safeties and they actually have Kelly Jennings listed as a ‘tough matchup’. It doesn’t get anymore objective than fantasy football research. =)

    http://www.theleadpipelock.com/2009/09/26/cornerback-and-safety-ratings-week-3/

  42. Also, I’m tired of some of you out there insulting peoples intelligence with, “they’re the coaching staff, they have access to things normal fans don’t, they always know what they are doing and what’s best,” (see Ruskel era). You can have all the recources in the world, but you still aren’t going to be perfect. Fans have the right to there opinions, and believe it or not, sometimes they have valid points, even if it is from the couch bro. I’m not saying this is the case, though, in my opinion it is, I’m just tired of the sheep that just roll with the ideals of whom they think is the utimate authority, in this case, the Hawks front office.

  43. BobbyAyala says:

    Dude, everyone can have their opinions, and I’m not saying you’re wrong in that Wilson is better than Jennings.

    But that’s not the point.

    Media and Fans are reactionary because they aren’t privy to the future plans.

    Rant and rave all you want about how stupid Pete Carroll is, but, there’s a reason why he is the head football coach, and not your buddy sitting next to you on the couch.

  44. Dukeshire says:

    BobbyAyala – As a general rule, I agree with your premise. The casual fan isn’t in the same league regarding talent evaluation as NFL front offices. The disparity is so great it isn’t worth trying to qualify. We’re in total agreement there. Where we differ is where results come in. Including but not limited to this preseason, Wilson has outplayed Jennings in every facet. Is there anyone here that would have really made an argument for Jennings over Wilson 2 days ago? I suspect not. And I don’t believe Schneider / Carroll are making that argument with this trade, either. That’s why I said what I said. If this team was a year or two further along in the building process and the same scenario presented itself, I don’t believe Wilson gets traded. But, valuing draft picks like gold as Schneider does, in these early stages, it makes sense to him. And of course there is the small matter of Thurmond’s unexpected play.

    But that was what I was saying, for what it’s worth. To be honest, I don’t think Jennings has much of a future here either. But no one’s coughing up a mid round pick for a 5th year first rounder that hasn’t been able to hold on to a starting spot.

  45. When going forward this season, you don’t think Jennings will be the starter opposite Tru?

  46. BobbyAyala says:

    I think Thurmond will be starting after the bye. Maybe earlier.

  47. BobbyAyala says:

    They went through camp to see if Thurmond’s knee will hold up.

    They got their answer, which made Wilson (the guy who is unrestricted, and worth more than Jennings) expendable.

    It’s as simple as that.

  48. BobbyAyala says:

    Duke,

    We’re in agreement.

    Thurmond is going to be the starter.

    This is all about Thurmond.

    Wilson IS better than Jennings, you’re right.

    But is he better than Thurmond?

    Nope.

  49. And to be staight, I’m not saying I could do a better job, but I can question what is going on and how it is being done.

  50. Dukeshire says:

    Because they are professionals and do this for a living doesn’t mean they are immune to making mistakes and exercising poor judgement at times.

    And yes, there is a reason they are paid to run multi-million dollar franchises while we sit on our couches with potato chip crumbs in our lap. But that doesn’t mean those reasons are always because they are necessarily that much smarter at what they are doing than anyone else. Cases in point; Rich Kotite. Chan Galey, Dick Jauron. Who knows why people are hired sometimes? Simply because someone is in a position of authority or power doesn’t make them better or somehow transcendent, no matter how much we’d all like to thing so.

  51. Dukeshire says:

    BobbyAyala – Well, considering Thurmond hasn’t seen a regular season snap, it’s hard to say. But point taken. His potential is greater and I have never suggested otherwise. But again, that doesn’t mean Wilson doesn’t / didn’t have a valuable role to play on this team.

  52. ljarllrajl says:

    I guess I’m on an island.

    Right now, in this defense, Jennings is better than both Wilson and Thurmond.

    Thurmond physically looks ready to start but mentally doesn’t look ready. In fact he’s looked a little lost in coverage against any QB not named Simms. His upside is what’s important, though. But I don’t think he’ll beat out Jennings this season and become a starter just on the odds alone.

  53. Norseman says:

    it’s way too early to judge the merits of this trade…especially with draft picks involved. see the tapp trade, and the difference a few months makes. we’ll be in a much better position to judge this move in 12-15 months.

  54. Dukeshire says:

    ljarllrajl – Yes, you are on an island. Kelly Jennings has been given only to surrender his starting spot each of the last 3 seasons. This year will be no different. In two of those is was taken by Josh Wilson. This season it will be Thurmond or Lewis.

  55. Dukeshire says:

    Norseman – Trust me, we will. lol

  56. bobbyj0708 says:

    As a trader I’ve learned to cut my losses quick and as best as you can and don’t look back once you’re out of the bad deal. It seems like the same thing here; Wilson didn’t fit their plans so they got what they could for him and moved on. You should too…

  57. A little off subject but this subject always comes up over and over.
    ESPN has a little article on PUP list trying to add the link below but it doesn’t look right
    http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/26890/clarifying-pup-list-rules-quiz-to-follow

  58. Wish Josh a great career with the Ravens, just not to have that career game vs us in the future.
    Hate to see him go as a fan, but its the business of the NFL people come and go.
    Plug in next guy to the lineup and hope he is better. We all have hopes of the newbys doing well and hope they develop fast because they need to.

  59. In football and in sports new coaches and management can often mean big changes, and quite often an established star, veteran or talent does not mesh with the vision, this happens all of the time. Gary Payton, Joey Galloway.

    Think of Josh Wilson as an asset, and a bargaining chip. This team needs to amass more overall talent and they felt good about the depth at CB. I actually like the Ravens, so it’s a win-win for me, as well as Wilson.

    Look at it this way-that 4th or 5th round pick is going to be a great value pick for a C, G, T depth on the offensive line that we are sorely lacking, but can be found in the mid-rounds. That coupled with the fact that we get compensation a year earlier, than if Josh Wilson walks in free agency, which he definitely would have given the value the FO was giving him.

    A draft pick in the present, may be better than a draft pick in the future.

  60. BrianBlades says:

    I’m not saying we should trade for Leinart, but after listening to an Arizona media guy on KJR this morning, it sounded like Leinart isn’t as bad as being publicized by Wisenhunt…so I got to looking at stats for the preseason.

    Here are the averaged out stats for the 3j preseason games. Interesting that after the decent 2nd preseason game Hasselbeck is being re-crowned here, while Leinart is being run out of town (and we are cowering in fear that he’ll come here – except Pabuwal)

    Hasselbeck:
    24 for 42
    completion percentage avg is 55%,
    avg yds per pass = 6.1
    Avg Rating: 81.9
    1TD 3 interceptions

    Leinart:
    19 for 23
    completion percentage avg is 80%
    avg yds per pass = 6.7
    Avg Rating: 102.6
    1TD 0 interceptions

    Leinart meets or beats Hasselbecks performance except in playing time.

    Pabuwal has me thinking, although I’m not for trading or giving up on Whitehurst.

  61. Dukeshire says:

    Preseason numbers… Leinart is a significant degrade.

  62. greenandy says:

    oh i finally see what Carroll is trying to do! he got Mike Willians, traded Wilson for a 4th or 5th round pick that he will use to get Leinart. And the reason he isnt pursuing a running back right now is because hes waiting until next summer when Reggie Bush is a free agent! I can see the Hawks dominating the league the way USC did college football in a couple years lol.

  63. bird_spit says:

    As one hawk fan to another, here’s drinking the the kool-aid to the best Kelly Jennings season ever, may he toss aside the demons and hawk the ball.(amen)

  64. BrianBlades says:

    I guess we’ll see. I’ll have to remember that preseason stats (which can be used to measure performance for the most part) do not matter.

  65. chuck_easton says:

    Maumau,

    To clarify that PUP list issue. Those four NFC North players that were all put on the inactive/PUP list had been out of the entire training camp.

    Seattle could put Pinkard on the PUP as he has been on the Active PUP for the entire camp.

    Pitts could have been put on the inactive PUP list if he wasn’t activated this week and began practicing with the team.

  66. HawkyHann says:

    1st 2 possesions vs Titans and Packers in preseason. Who gets picked on right away? Answer-little man Josh Wilson. Nate Washington down to 1 yard line. J. Finley TD, didn’t even jump…just looked down at the little chump.

    Start Thurmond, and bring in Jennings at Nickel. Go with Chancellor and send Babs packing. The secondary has been garbage for years, so yes, change it up now.

    I love how this regime is handling the OBVIOUS. Our D line looks much better and secondary is improving. Wonder if we could trade Babs and get a 7th rounder…doubt it, thats how bad this guy is.

  67. I’m not about to bash the trade again. I said my piece yesterday. But I do have an obervation:

    It amazes me that good players get traded for crappy draft picks. It’s not just Josh Wilson.

    It seems that teams value their draft picks like gold.

    But then on draft day teams are throwing picks around left and right like they are trash (not all teams).

    I know you have to give to get but the Eagles gave away a pair of 3rd round picks so they could move up about 10 spots in the 1st round. Once you get out of the top 10 there are a bunch of trades where teams trade down for more picks. And not just for 1st round picks.

    I wish some team was smart enough to just trade, trade, trade on draft day and say screw their 1st rounder and get a bunch of later picks (perhaps in later years). And by the time they get to the end of the 1st round they can trade that 1st rounder for a future 1st rounder and a bag of chips (and perhaps that 1st rounder will be at least mid-1st round and you can repeat the cycle of trading until you have a million picks over a 5-year period (overexaggerated – but you get the point). Heck, they would have the ammunition to acquire good, young players entering their primes (like Wilson) and still have a bunch of extra picks.

    I know you have to find trading partners, but there are a lot of trades in the NFL draft weekend.

  68. HawkyHann – that Finley TD you’re talking about was the fault of the Safety who was supposed to have that area. The announcers and later players/coaches said this. Wilson did what he was supposed to do on that play (even though it looked like he got beat to you). I could be wrong, but I think we’re thinking of the same play on the TD where Finley was wide open for the score?

  69. Actually, I don’t remember the CB (if it was Wilson). I just know it was made clear that the Safety (can’t remember if it was Lawyer or Earl) was responsible for Finley being so open.

  70. Dukeshire says:

    HawkyHann – That was Justin Gage to the 1 vs Tenn. Wilson had outside leverage, as he should, and Gage found the open area between Heater and Thomas. But yes, Wilson could have been tighter. And as you seem to have forgotten on the second possession, Wilson was all over Gage like a bad rash and picked Young on the 25 yard come back.

    Bobby already spoke about the Packers play so no need there.

    At least we’re in agreement about Babs.

  71. pabuwal says:

    Leinart has put together some decent games against good defenses in his career and some bad games also – like any young QB does. He is actually 2-0 against the Seahawks, beating them in 2006-2007 and putting up good numbers. Warner was 0-2 against the Seahawks in those 2 years. I invite anyone to go through Leinart’s career games. Of course he had good talent around him, but he was just a rookie and 2nd year QB in those games.

    I put the blame for Leinart’s demise on his coach. His coach didn’t have the patience to go through a young QB’s growing pains. And why would he, with future HoF QB Kurt Warner there. The coach was spoiled by watching and having Warner. He expected a 2nd and third year QB to be Warner which was crazy.

    Hasselbeck will have to crawl around on his knees before Whitehurst beats him out. Whitehurst is still every bit as bad as he has been in years past. He has shown 0 growth in his 5 year NFL career.

    Put Leinart back in the right situation, give him some patience and he can become a Matt Hasselbeck 2002-2005 type QB. Not a world beater, but given a decent offense, a pretty good QB.

    And then the Seahawks will have a pretty good fallback option if/when Hasselbeck falters. They have nothing right now, except 3-13 with Whitehurst.

  72. Dukeshire says:

    How is he not in the right situation now?

  73. ruminator1 says:

    local sports radio show was suggesting the wilson trade a prelude to a deal to get revis

  74. freedom_X says:

    Leinart’s numbers are better than Anderson. Yet it appears AZ is picking Anderson over Leinart. Maybe numbers don’t tell the whole story? Such as Leinart choosing the quick outlet or dump-off pass instead of letting the play develop?

    Maybe that despite those numbers, Leinart has been virtually ineffective in moving his team to 1st downs in the preseason?

    Maybe that his teammates have no confidence in his leadership?

    Maybe that AZ doesn’t want Leinart around even as the backup, because they think he’ll taint the young 3rd QB they’d keep for the future, and spoil the air with his whining and complaining?

    Sounds like just what Seattle needs.

  75. guywhothinksheknowsitall says:

    sorry guys, but with everything we gave up for whitehurst, there is no way we make a trade for leinart. we are stuck with CW, for better or for worse

  76. You’d think if the Jets wanted to trade Revis to us that they would want a quality CB in return too. That part doesn’t make sense. If the Jets wanted to teach Revis a lesson though, they would want to trade him to Candada South. No Super Bowl wins and nobody cares about them besides a few of us.

  77. I’m way late to this conversation – but my two cents: I guess I’m still in the Trust Carroll mode, and will go with him in this one (as I will on most of these moves) until the season proves otherwise. By that, I definitely don’t mean that he and/or Schneider are above criticsm – I fully believe that fans have the right to criticize or applaud anything they like about a team and the moves it makes. But we snagged a coach who is coming off tremendous success, and I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt in personnel decisions for the time being.

    I’ll agree that it does ring false, that this was ‘a deal too good to pass up’ – but I’d wager this is all Carroll’s call, and Schneider was just told to see what the best he could get was, for a guy who, for probably a couple reasons, was not one the 4 CB’s that Carroll wanted to keep this season.

    It’s not great value, and I thought Wilson was a good, if not great, player for us last year (honestly pretty tricky to tell who is good in the mess of a terrible blowout-filled season). Again, trusting PC’s judgment on this one. Now let’s see how the guys he picked to stay actually play.

  78. BobbyAyala says:

    I don’t know if I could trust Leinart with my NFL franchise.

    Dude’s a kid of privilege who has shown he can’t handle adversity worth a darn, and has also shown that his teammates consider him more a friend than a leader.

    He doesn’t have an arm either, he’s not very accurate. His numbers are padded by short dump offs, he can’t hit a 50-yard out.

    His success in high school and college was predicated on the fact that he played at Mater Dei and USC, two juggernaut programs in the heart of dynasty eras.

    He was surrounded by elite talent, which wouldn’t be the case in Seattle.

    I wouldn’t take on Leinart if he paid us to play.

  79. Dukeshire says:

    All this Leinart talk is absurd. They’re not trading for him. But even more baffling to me than the absurdity of the rumor is that some people actually want him. Pouting. Throwing helmets. Criticizing receivers. And that’s in addition to his inability to hit a receiver without hanging him out to dry, more than 10 yards downfield. It’s one thing to carry a clipboard for Warner. It’s another to do it for D Anderson. He’s a bum.

  80. BobbyAyala says:

    Yup. Pretty much.

  81. edstang45 says:

    I was surprised as anyone when JW was traded (should end up as a 4th due to he should get lots of time as he is a injury replacement) anyways Even as he is a talent his talent is returning kicks, not so much as a CB my opinion, he is small, has speed of course but even when he speeds his way to the big Larry fitzgerald types he cannot compete for the ball and or make solo tackles on them also he is a liability in the running game. Seems PC is building toward bigger physical CB’s at least that is my hope. A 4th is gonna be nice next april, face it we can only count on being competetive this year and he would need to be replaced going forward so pull the trigger, and look for a bigger back feild in our future. Hell man we went from small speedy DL to big bad bruisers DL in one off season. the best is comming

  82. hawks31 says:

    JW was great for our team. He is a good player. But lets not get confused, he was a good player in one of the worst secondaries in football, which made him stand out that much more to all us Hawk fans. He will never be able to grow taller. That will always be a knock and a huge one for a CB. We all liked him because he played hard. He did so because he had to, to compensate for his size. I hope he does well, but I don’t think he will be a stand out player like he was here. He was not going to be here next year and that was the best offer we could get. Yes, we could have kept him for this year, but he would have sat behind Thurmond, Trufant, Jennings etc. I agree, he was the 2nd best corner on our team, a team that had a terrible secondary.

  83. Dukeshire says:

    A liability in the running game. When did that misnomer begin to surface. Would we all agree that Lawyer Milloy is a hard hitter that is not a liability in the running game? Milloy has had 3 forced fumbles since 2001. Wilson had 3 forced fumbles in 2008. (3 less than Lofa, 2 less than Hill and 1 more than Mebane over their respective careers) He is not a liability in run support and along with Heater, the surest tackler on this team.

    And I love the comparisons are always how he covers Fitz. Who covers Fitz well? And since when are we comparing him to how well he covers the leagues best receivers. That’s what Trufant gets paid millions to do.

  84. Dukeshire says:

    hawks31 – Who are the best corners in the game? What is their average height? When you discover that taller is always better, please get back to us.

    And why would he sit behind Jennings when he never has before. In ’08 Jennings was given the starting spot. Wilson took over. Jennings broken rib? Well, last year Mora gave Jennings the starting spot. Wilson took over. That’s because Tru got hurt. Then wouldn’t it stand to reason Jennings would cover the #1s? Wilson took that over too.

    There is no evidence that Seattle would not have been able to resign him. None.

  85. snydro22 says:

    While I hate the idea of bringing in Matt Leinart (see LenDale White) I don’t think the possibility of it happening is absurd.

    Three days ago, if you would have asked me if we would trade Josh Wilson to the Ravens for a conditional 5th round pick, I would have told you THAT was absurd..

  86. HawkyHann says:

    Dukeshire I remember little mans pick. It was the result of a classic, gross, Vince Young pass who should have just thrown it away. I was glad he picked it though. Bobby K-I’ll give you the safety should have been there, but I still think a tall corner could possibly gotten over to tip it away. I doubt Rodgers even could see Wilson. As you can tell…..I cant stand little corners, especially against AZ and SF. They have big WRs.

    Now, lets hope Thurmond comes through and the knee holds up. Go Hawks!

  87. hawks31 says:

    I am 6′-6″ and I can speak from experience that taller IS always better.

    I just got back to you buddy.

  88. snydro22 says:

    Nnamdi Asomugha, CB, 6-2, 210

    Champ Bailey, CB, 6-0, 192

    Darrelle Revis, CB, 5-11, 198

    Cortland Finnegan, CB, 5-11, 188

    Terence Newman, CB, 5-10, 193

    Asante Samuel, CB, 5-10, 185

    Josh Wilson, CB, 5-9, 192

  89. snydro22 says:

    Marcus Trufant, CB, 5-11, 197

    Seeing Trufant and Wilson stand next to each other at practices and on the sidelines, I would say that 5-9 is very generous for Josh Wilson..

  90. hawks31 says:

    “There is no evidence that Seattle would not have been able to resign him. None.”

    I think it is pretty clear that the Hawks were not going to re-sign him.

  91. Dukeshire says:

    “Three days ago, if you would have asked me if we would trade Josh Wilson to the Ravens for a conditional 5th round pick, I would have told you THAT was absurd..” Good point. And it is. Still.

    While I brought that list on myself, the argument has never been whether he’s one one of the best corners in the game (despite an emotional rant) A better way to say what I meant would have been; being tall is not a prerequisite for being a good cornerback. Ash Lito Sheppard or Antoine Winfield.

    And you forgot Charles Woodson and Al Harris. Both over 6’0″ (now, if you’ll excuse me, there’s a pie in the fridge…)

  92. hawks31 says:

    Duke,

    I am not sure who’s quote that is (or if it is your rebuttal of my previous post), but the quote below, to me, shows that they were not going to keep Wilson after this year:

    “I totally understand where the fans are coming from, but the fact of the matter is that Josh is going to be a free agent next year and we felt we had guys who could step into his spot.”

  93. ryanryan says:

    *sigh – we are a long way from competing boys…a long way. just ask the current regime. they’re betting on their skills for LATE draft success rather than our current talent.

    go hawks!

  94. Dukeshire says:

    hawks31 – I presume that was a John Schneider quote? I hadn’t seen that and if someone in the front office said that, then so be it.

    The quote in my previous post was from snydro.

    I think I’ve just now finally reached acceptance, the 5th stage. Lol. I still don’t like it, but they didn’t ask my opinion before they shipped him off. Thanks for listening everyone. lol

  95. freedom_X says:

    Taller is always better? Not if you’re a stiff.

  96. edstang45 says:

    I guess Dukeshire is one of JW bigger fans that’s ok but I want a bigger more physical corner, Sure JW made some plays in the run game but I remember more times he was man handled too many times, and it was “Fitz types”, plenty of big receivers in this league which he is not capable of handling. Our secondary has been subpar for atleast 2 years now, He plays small for his small stature, some smaller guys play BIG sorry Duke my opinion

  97. ruminator1 says:

    on the revis rumor, that is all it is. IMO that station talks nonsense much of the time and this was just musing. if there was something to this i think we would be hearing something.

    i do think that our roster will not be set on this weekend. it will be a roster with several spots opening up as other teams let players go and maybe then a trade happens, for lynch for example. i think the O line is getting close, maybe with terrel being dropped. seems like valos may be gone too.

    on leinart–there seems to be some possibility that he is dropped, not traded. i cannot see the hawks going there unless Losman stinks up the joint tomorrow night. CW looking more and more like a project to me. they are trying to get him ready (heartbeat away and all that) and he has shown he can do some things. but he lacks mobility and seems to make careless decisions. very hard to read what they have there.

    on wilson–i think they see thurman evolving beyond nickle. and they love
    thomas and his range. and they like the idea of a 4th (hard to imagine wilson doesn’t play enough to warrant the 4th). still it would not surprise me to see them add someone once rosters are set. i liked wilson, but i have to say that bigger receivers, even mike w on the hawks, were taking balls away. this is true of jennings also. they got good tips, but they cannot muscle the ball and i think that is what the staff want, physical players. the last game wasn’t great but PC loved the energy and the loose balls. that is something they CAN do.

  98. ruminator1 says:

    and milloy, while i think he is a liability in coverage, does bring energy and hard hits. i really don’t think they are keeping him because of his coverage skills. more for his knowledge of the game, his tutoring and his hits.

  99. freedom_X says:

    So Josh Wilson is gone. Guess what? I’ll bet you this year, Larry Fitzgerald still catches a bunch of passes against Seattle’s secondary. So will other 6’3″+ receivers. So will 5’9″ receivers.

    If a tall receiver catches the ball, it’s because Seattle’s corners are “too small.” So what is it when a short receiver catches the ball against them?

    What’s the difference between a tall receiver outjumping the short CB in the red zone, or a quick receiver ditching the stiff tall CB and getting wide open?

    Who are the tall corners that are totally shutting down Steve Smith?

    How is 5’10”, 185 lb Asante Samuel a Pro Bowl corner?

    Did you know the average height of the Pro Bowl 2010 CB roster is under 6 feet?

    Oh, but a 5’11” guy is so much better equipped to deal with a 6’5″ guy than a 5’9″ guy.

  100. freedom – love the post! lol

  101. I’m excited about having Earl Thomas in our secondary for a long time.

    With that being said, how come nobody is mad that we took a short safety with the 14th pick in the draft?

  102. chuck_easton says:

    BobbyK,

    From what I’ve read Thomas gets in just above the Schneider tapemeasure.

    Supposedley Schneider’s approach is “never draft a DB under 5’10” and preferably 6′ or over.

    Thomas is listed at 5’10”.

    Thomas and Lewis are listed at 5′ 10″
    Trufant, Jennings, and Thurmond are all listed at 5’11”
    All the other safeties are 6′ or better.

  103. grizindabox24 says:

    Does anyone actually think JW is a difference maker? Does anyone actually think that the end result of the season would be different with JW than without? I just can not think anyone can answer yes to either of these questions. I was surprised by the trade, but in the long run, I do not see this deal as a bad thing. I would be guessing that both JW and KJ would be gone after the season either way, and the Hawks grabbed something for JW while they could.

  104. tylakewalker says:

    I’m wondering if we see more changes from week to week with the starting lineup and playing time for the cornerbacks. If the hawks are playing a team with a very fast and small receiver, Kelly Jennings starts. If the opposing team has larger than average receivers then Walter Thurmond starts?

  105. pabuwal says:

    Jennings and Thurmond are listed at the same height and weight.

  106. tylakewalker says:

    Thurmond is listed at 190, Jennings at 180. Taking into consideration Thurmond is only 23 he may be able to add more weight. I am surprised Thurmond is only 10 lbs heavier. I thought the difference would have been more.

  107. snydro22 says:

    Santonio Holmes is probably the best player on the Jets with Darrelle Revis holding out.

    It doesn’t mean sh** but it helps the sting of the Wilson trade..

  108. chuck_easton says:

    While I don’t challenge the notion that Jennings is indeed the same height as Trufant (I’ve seen them side by side and they are the same height) I very much doubt Jennings could tip the scales at 180 unless he’s wearing every piece of clothing he owns, is wearing steal toed boots, and has a foot or two of steal chain in his pockets.

  109. Dukeshire says:

    grizindabox24 – I can answer an unequivocal yes to both questions. And while perhaps your end hypothesis is correct, that doesn’t doesn’t devalue his contributions in any way.

  110. snydro22 says:

    John Schneider disagrees, Duke. According to him, Josh Wilson was beat out during camp, and he stated that even if we were on the verge of a Super Bowl, he would have made this deal.

  111. Dukeshire says:

    What? When? I listened to the Brock and Salk interview and I got from that this was as much about him becoming a FA at the end of the season as much as the vision they have for the future of that position. I missed where he said Wilson was beat out during camp. I’m going to listen again.

  112. Dukeshire says:

    I listened again and got this; he was going to be a free agent and they want bigger corners, so they weren’t going to resign him. “Out of the blue” the Ravens came to them (but then he did say there was another team involved, so…) and offered them a pick in next year’s draft.

    He did mention that he was impressed with the play of Thurmond, Jennings and Cox but that wasn’t in context of anyone beating Wilson out. Maybe you heard it differently. Are we talking about the same interview?

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