Seahawks Insider

Schneider on Wilson trade: A deal the Hawks couldn’t pass up

Post by Eric Williams on Aug. 31, 2010 at 5:50 pm with 105 Comments »
September 1, 2010 9:58 am

Seahawks head coach Pete Carroll and general manager John Schneider addressed reporters here at the VMAC this afternoon on the roster moves they made today.

Carroll began by stating this is one of the busiest times of the year in terms of roster movement with teams around the league working to upgrade the talent on their rosters as they trim down to the final 53 players.

Schneider agreed.

“This is the most difficult weekend in the year for everybody involved,” Schneider said. “For the coaches, for the players – all of these guys – and for the personnel staffs to have to go through the evaluations and address players that have worked their tails off the whole season.”

With Wilson gone, the Seahawks have a extra roster spot, and used that to sign defensive end James Wyche. At 6-foot-5, 279 pounds, Wyche appears to be a 5-tech guy for Seattle.

That said, a move that appears to look like Seattle may have wound up with the short end of the stick by sending Josh Wilson to Baltimore for what has been reported as a fifth-round pick appears to have been sped up by the play of Marcus Trufant, and ultimately Walter Thurmond.

The rookie out of University of Oregon came back from major knee surgery much quicker than most anticipated, and he is now competing for time as a starter with Kelly Jennings.

Carroll said Thurmond would be the team’s nickel back for the first unit right now, along with guys like Roy Lewis and possibly Jordan Babineaux.

Specifically, the Seahawks like Thurmond’s size at corner and his ability to come up and play physical, both in pass coverage and in run support.

Wilson and Jennings had been sharing reps with the first team, but it appeared that Wilson had nudged forward in the competition for the starting cornerback job opposite Trufant.

“This is an opportunity for us that came along to us because of our depth,” Carroll said. “And our situation at the cornerback position that we’re very happy with, with the play of Tru and Kelly Jennings, Walter Thurmond and Roy Lewis. … Josh is a great kid and we love him and all of that. But this is a team that really came after him, and it happened very quickly.”

Added Schneider: “Josh has been a factor here for several years now, and has done a great job in the community and everything. He’s very well respected. This was a team that was very aggressive in coming after Josh. They have a situation where they have a strong need. And as Pete said, it has more to do with the way Walter has stepped up, and the way Tru is playing and some of the younger guys.”

Schneider went on to say that the Wilson deal was too enticing.

“It was one of those deals that comes along,” Schneider said. “We get calls on players and we don’t do everything. But this was one of those deals we felt like we couldn’t pass up.”

In terms of the compensation of potentially a fifth round pick from Baltimore for Wilson, Schneider said the Seahawks got market value.

“The market is different at different times,” he said. “Randy Moss was traded for a fourth-round pick. So it fluctuates. And right now with Josh in terms of the value, we felt like it was at a level with him being an unrestricted free agent next year that it was at a point we felt was definitely fair.”

With Wilson gone, Leon Washington now will get a chance to earn the kick returner position, something that he’s been chomping at the bit to do according to Carroll. If the regular-season opener was today, Carroll said Washington would be the kick returner.

Carroll said that he was excited to add offensive tackle Tyler Polumbus to the roster, beefing up the team’s depth at offensive tackle.

“He’s played both left and right tackle in the same system in Denver,” Carroll said. “He’s started in games, and we have plenty of film on him. We know that he can play. So at this time, I think we were very fortunate to find Tyler.”

Carroll and Schneider also addressed the Leroy Hill contract situation. Hill accepted a pay reduction in his base salary of $6 million that was due this season, reducing it down to $2.125 million and voiding the four remaining years of his contract, giving up about $20 million in future earnings.

“That was a situation where both sides, we had obviously been talking to Leroy through the whole thing,” Schneider said. “He had a situation that came up, and both sides just felt like we could come with a solution. And (Vice President of Football Administration) John Idzik and Leroy’s representatives did a nice job of figuring out a solution for the situation that Leroy was involved with.

So will Hill be with the team for the remainder of the 2010 season?

“We really like the way Leroy plays,” Carroll said. “We’re looking forward to him playing for us.”

Leave a comment Comments → 105
  1. HarbachHawk says:

    I feel much better about it now.

  2. vichawkfan says:

    this will be interesting to say the least. JC and Pete might be getting their first taste of WTF from the fans.

  3. It doesn’t seem that Baltimore was too “aggressive” if they only coughed up a 5th round pick for him. Why can’t we get aggressive and get Marcus McNeil for a 4th round pick? Because the Chargers would be morons if they did that and they aren’t that dumb. Not everyone is stupid enough to trade a good YOUNG player for a 5th rounder. Last I looked, you resign your good and young players (insert Hutch joke here… different regimes, similar stupidity).

    Of course, this is the same John Schneider who thought Jordy Nelson was better than DeSean Jackson. And the same guy who did the Ruskell equivalent of Curry by taking AJ Hawk with the 4th overall pick. Smart. Real smart.

    This new regime has done some good things, but this was an act of stupidity. Nobody is perfect, I guess.

  4. If I were the GM of any other team in the NFL, I’d come calling this Seahawks organization and offer a 4th round pick for Brandon Mebane. I’d say that he’s going to be a free agent after the season and Randy Moss was traded for a 4th round pick. Then I’d say he’s ripping me off by my giving him a 4th round pick (same round Randy Moss went for and Mebane is no Randy Moss). I’d come hard at him with this 4th rounder and make it sound like it’s an offer too good for him to refuse.

  5. Isn’t it good to have defensive playmakers? And bad not to have many of them? Fifth round picks aren’t exactly gold, ar they? Just curious.

  6. HarbachHawk says:

    I love the fact that I live in Ohio and have had 4 friends so far that know NOTHING about the Seahawks send me a text message saying “LOL WTF man, ‘hawks got ripped off.” These are Cleveland and Cinci fans mind you. And I cant even really defend it……..

  7. To me this is the first horrible, horrible, horrible move this regime has made. Overpaying for CBJ seemed aggresive, but if they like a QB I can understand paying to get him.

    Letting an excellent kick returner, and starting CB that is the 2nd best CB on the team leave for a 5th rounder seems DUMB! DUMB! DUMB!

    Wilson has been better than Jennings since the day he got here, and if you were looking to unload Josh Wilson, a team would have given up a 3rd rounder for him.

    This is an awful move.

  8. vichawkfan says:

    CBs are like gold in this league. When a team competing for a SuperBowl this year are showing one glaring weakness on their team, and we serve up a starter for them….for a 5th……is outright pathetic.
    Starting to think they have fantasty football mentality. And I don`t buy the 5-11 team excuse.

  9. Bobby I think you missed the point on value. We get a 4th or 5th pick for him now and avoid losing him to UFA next year. That’s the logic behind their decision. They’re looking beyond 2010. I think we give them credit on this as I doubt we would have re-signed JW without shuffling out a big chunk of money that we’re going to need next year.

  10. Nobody called about Jennings apparently so there you go. My bet KJ will fade from the picture as the season evolves.

    Lewis had a pick today in 7 on 7. They put Pinkard on reserved /inj today as well.
    We prob got better today and don’t know it.

  11. HarbachHawk says:

    Hopefully nobody offers a 6 pack of Sam Adams Octoberfest for Earl Thomas. I mean, it IS really good beer, and that WOULD be a very aggressive approach.

  12. Soggybuc says:

    With Thurmond coming up strong and the starter of the future, RW looking like a good option at nickle and a good ST player…..either we pay JW big money next year to retain a FA thats going to be replaced or lose him in FA for nothing. that or strike while the iron is hot and before he blows out a knee and all is for naught. it’s an OK move when you take the blinders off.

    I liked JW alot. he was a good player and even better person but its called the Not For Long league for a reason. good luck kid i wont and cannot root for the Ravens but ill always be happy when you have good game.

  13. Dukeshire says:

    A 5th round pick was too enticing? Please. I wasn’t aware a team could be too deep in the secondary. Especially considering one of those players still plays with a giant brace on his knee.

  14. BenderHawkFan says:


    Initially, I thought there might be more to the story, but maybe not so much.

    The cost/benefit is not in our favor for this move. Part of my frustration about this is based on the fact that it feels like other teams make savvy moves as we continue to make head-scratchers.

    Still…the proof is in the pudding. Here’s hoping for a great season and validation about our FO moves.

  15. Dukeshire says:

    HarbachHawk – lol

  16. When you have a good, solid 25 year old player… you keep them.


    Or we can eternally draft players and then trade them when they are 1 year away from free agency so we could never see any of our own players play in the prime of their careers.

    For the people who don’t think Wilson was a difference making Pro Bowler… not everyone on your team has to be… but good teams need good players and if you trade them… you sure as hell expect to get more than a crappy 5th round pick in return.

    I know the league was laughing at us for the CW trade. They have got to be on the ground rolling after this one.

    Mebane better be worried. He’s a year from free agency, too. And he’s never been to a Pro Bowl so that means he sucks as well and certainly not part of the solution. Derrr….

  17. torinaga says:

    I am going to go ahead and register BobbyK as not a far on this trade.

  18. Soggy…

    There is one thing you need to understand:

    If Wilson played for us and then signed a big money contract with someone else after next season, we would get a comp. draft pick the following year. Depending on the amount of the contract, it’d probably be a mid/later pick (like a 5th rounder). So there’s no way we’d lose him for nothing. And if he didn’t get a big money contract from someone else, then we could keep him. And if we resigned Wilson, well, that only makes sense to keep your own good young players.

    Damn stupid trade. Damn stupid. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.

  19. If they don’t get something done with the CBA, there’s a chance Wilson would be under team control for ’10, ’11, and ’12.

  20. I think a playmaker like Wilson was worthy of being paid to stay next year when he’s a free agent. i don’t like the move.

  21. Dukeshire says:

    Absolutely Bobby. Corner was set (presuming Thurmond develops the way it appears) for years to come. No longer. The idea is to eliminate positions to have to address. They have now just created one.

    I can’t wait to read all the Jennings comments by the time week 4 rolls around. See how many people think he’s better than Wilson by then.

  22. Duke – not one comment I read thought that Jennings was better than Wilson.

  23. grizindabox24 says:

    Seriously…JW is not that big of a loss. The Hawks are not going to be a worse team for dealing him. Heck, he probably would not start for a majority of the teams in the league. I am not touting Jennings as good either, but I think if they like Thurmond and Lewis, then they moved a guy to get the younger guys on the field. For a team that has not won more than 4 games in either of the last two season, I have no problem with rebuild.

  24. Um, when you lose good players, you get worse.

    Again – we could have kept Wilson for a year and then gotten a comp. pick for him if he signed somewhere else.

  25. variable575 says:

    harbachfan, Bk and Duke,

    I think we all feel the same way…………………still waiting for PC to explain how this was sound reasoning…………talk about insulting our intelligence.

    I think I’ll go watch “Something about Mary” now just to see and a hear a good authoritative F-Bomb delivered by Matt Dillon when he overhears the crippled guy ratting him out. !@#$%

    BTW-I just caught something on ESPN about a 6pac of brew and matt hass.

  26. HarbachHawk says:

    Relax everybody….maybe they meant to say that it was Willis McGahee that they got in return instead of a conditional 5th round pick……a guy can still dream.

  27. I will love this move when they take that 5th round pick and flip it to the Cardinals for Leinart.

  28. grizindabox24 says:

    What I am saying is that even though JW maybe considered a better player than Jennings and probably would start, I personally do not like either and the Hawks are in trouble with either anyway. So I do not see what the big deal is, because neither is the answer.

  29. CreamRanger says:

    The roster needs to be cut down to 53 men by Saturday. This is basically like cutting someone but getting a 5th round pick for it. Sure Josh Wilson is talented, but he is far to short to be anything more than a solid nickel in the league. With Thurmond coming on strong and Roy Lewis playing physical football there isn’t much need for a solid nickel when either Thurmond or Lewis could blossom into a legitimate starting corner in the league. And that is if Kelly Jennings struggles. Who knows, Jennings could get in stride now that he won’t have Wilson competing for time with him. We also have more room on the roster to sign guys that could be the answer at another position of need.

  30. Chill out BobbyK. Do you really believe you have more insight than the guys that are there every practice, every game, every day.

    I admit, I like JW way better than K Jennings, but W. Thurmond does look like a steal, and it sounds like the UW kid is going to make it too. Somehow, our secondary went from total weakness last season to a strength, but these guys know their craft.

    Vent if you must, but get a grip.

  31. variable575 says:

    With the packers hard up for secondary help, I don’t see how the hawks were not able to get a bidding war going between a few teams.

    If one can be created for a 3rd string QB, what about a young talented 1st string DB.

    Are we about to become the lesson already learned……….You can’t coach and GM at the same time. ohy ohy ohy.

  32. OutSydeDog says:

    I liked Wilson, but I’m not as upset as a lot of you. This FO isn’t afraid to pull the trigger on anything that they think will make us better in the long run. I’m not even sure that Jennings is still here come opening day. I’m glad we didn’t keep the same ol’ guys who didn’t get it done last year. It also sends the right message to all the other vets, don’t get too comfortable.

    GO HAWKS!!!

  33. Same guy that drafted Jordy Nelson over DeSean Jackson because Nelson was supposedly better?

  34. Okay, I’m still mad at this trade, but I’m done venting about it for the night…

  35. BenderHawkFan says:


    Surely you meant Line Art. Or maybe Lion Heart.

    But f’g Leinert????

    I wouldnt trade DJ Ducketts pube shavings for that douche.

  36. BenderHawkFan says:

    All sort of typos on that…my b..

  37. grizindabox24 says:

    Bender…I am wondering why you have Duckett’s shavings?

  38. Dukeshire says:


    This was a terrible trade on every level. I’m going to try and stop venting about it for now, as well.

  39. When bidding for a player, it is easy to overpay and get “ripped off” (Whitehurst). But when trading your own player, it’s hard to get “ripped off” unless the availability of the player was kept under wraps or the pool of partners was purposefully limited. Neither of those seemed to happen here.

    Fans tend to overvalue the talent on their team, even when the team has 2 historically bad years (1st 2 year stretch of 5 or less wins since 1976-1977). We blame it on injuries, bad coaching (remember when John Marshall was the problem) – but rarely on our favorite players.

  40. freedom_X says:

    This is the biggest surprise I’ve seen from the new management. If they got rid of him because “he doesn’t fit their mold”, then that’s completeyy ridiculous, especially at the CB position. That may make sense on the line, maybe even LB. But at CB it’s cover, run support, make plays on the ball. That’s it.

    Unless statistically it can be shown Wilson was getting beaten more often than the other corners (in practice as well as games) – my perception he covers at least as well, and probably better, than any of the other Seattle corners other than the rejuvenated Trufant.

    Run support? He was clearly superior to all of the other corners last year in this category, and this year – perhaps the revitalized Trufant and Roy Lewis might be better. But Wilson is a sure tackler for a CB of any size, upper 3rd anyway.

    Make plays? Do I really need to elaborate on that?

    So if Seattle’s CB talent has risen to the extent that Wilson is expendable, then that would be an enormously encouraging sign. But somehow I don’t believe that’s the case. Or I just can’t see it in the games.

    From a value standpoint, this looks as bad to me as the WHitehurst trade.

    Oh, BTW – if Seattle picks up Leinart, someone who can’t beat out Derek Anderson – then this management is to be completely abandoned. I’d rather see them claim Matt Gutierriez, who was just waived, than Leinart.

    If Leinart is cut loose, it’s because the Cardinals don’t think he has any leadership qualities – they don’t think the team will follow him. Just what Seattle needs. But let’s add insult to injury and pay for Arizona’s trash, too!

  41. Where is that fellow that used to post a ton of comprehensive stats on everything? I’d love to see Wilson’s stats last year (thrown at, completions, yards, TDs, INTs). I am convinced QBs completed at least 65% of passes thrown at him.

  42. DisplacedSeahawkFan says:

    This is the stupidest roster move Schneider and PC have made thus far. Josh Wilson is a midget, but he doesn’t play that way. He’s a solid starter and should have started opposite of Trufant. He can’t cover the Fitzgerald’s in the league, but for that matter neither can Trufant. He’s still a starter and you don’t trade starters for 5th round draft picks. This was a stupid, stupid, move that will come back to hurt us once the season progresses and our CB’s start geting banged up.

  43. If we could get a stat like this I think it would be best to compare it to Seahawk DBs, as most other teams didn’t have DBs who had to cover as long as ours did (horrible pass rush).

  44. tylakewalker says:


    I forgot about compensatory draft picks, that’s a good point.

    I am surprised and disappointed in hawks management for not being able to do better than a 5th round draft pick. I hope Thurmond and Lewis develop quickly, I don’t know how much more of Kelly Jennings I can watch.

  45. Looks like Babs will make the team after all…..

  46. variable575 says:

    I really liked the idea of having two ball-hawks in the backfield………..oh well.

  47. It’s too bad we didn’t get more for him, but let’s be grateful for what we have. We got Mike Williams, who everyone was laughing about and now looks like a #1 receiver for us for absolutely nothing. We got Kevin Vickerson, who, if you’ve watched him is downright huge and dominant, for a switch in draft picks. You win some, lose some, but I think we’re winning more than we’re losing.

  48. BenderHawkFan says:


    It was a Qwest give-away…thought it migth be worth something some day…maybe I can get a signature…

  49. BobbyAyala says:

    If you’re going to lose Wilson at the end of the season, then trading him for a fourth (which it will end up being) is hardly an “act of stupidity.”

    Wilson right now is the second best corner on the team, but Walter Thurmond is the future.

    Pete likes a big secondary, and Thurmond fits the bill.

    Just because Josh Wilson was one of the better DB’s on this team doesn’t mean he’s one of the better DB’s in the league. By a long shot.

    Pete and John are building their team, so all of you people crying over the loss of another Ruskell midget need to step back and take another sip of Kool-Aid. Once again, this team has won NINE games in two years.

    No one on this team is worth crying over.

  50. el_gato_furioso says:

    Three letters:
    While many teams have used this uncapped season as an opportunity to sign away, come next year there will be many tough decisions to make by many teams. The trade market for decent players is and will remain low with so many players becoming available at the end of the season.
    Plus, if they want to give JW money to play next year, nothing is stopping them right?

  51. BobbyAyala says:

    You all forget that this team has Chancellor, Thomas, Lewis and Adams, all good, young, big defensive backs.

    Thomas can play corner. Thurmond can play corner. Jennings is a third corner.

    This defensive backfield is set for years to come WITHOUT Josh Wilson.

    Once again, just because Wilson was one of your lone playmakers on two miserable football teams, you people are WAY over valuing him.

    He’s just a guy.

    A guy that doesn’t fit the scheme.

  52. DJammmer says:

    BobbyK… good point on the compensatory pick.

    First I was pissed! (WTF? Best corner from last year gone for a 5th?)
    Then I was ok.. .b/c I bought into the FO’s PR… (He’s an FA next year anyway).
    Then I was pissed, b/c we have Paul Allen’s Billions, and no Cap. So what… We should be paying talent. (especially if we used 2nd round picks on them, and they’re good.)

    And they you reminded us all that we’d probably have gotten a 4-6th anyway if he left.

    Crap. I’m going to chalk this one up as a “NFL learning curve” for Carrol. If wilson is his version “on the job training”, ala “HUTCH”… and he doesn ‘t have bigger mess ups… I can live with this kind of on the job training. Still kinda pissed though.

    Let’s hope Wilson plays his brains out for the Ravens… and this becomes a 4th rounder.

  53. DJammmer says:

    ps. I’m also a little pissed that they threw away the rest of Hill’s contract. Didn’t 4 more years @ $5 mill per seem like a bargain for HIll, if he starts playing back to potential?

    I applaud the cut in salary for this year; but they should have somehow kept him signed for future years.

  54. fuzzybear says:

    Dump Wilson and keep Jennings? Please

  55. SteelBlueLime says:

    There is more to balance into this than just fan-favoritism. The two posts below offer some reasonable considerations that we are looking beyond a 1-year plan!

    CreamRanger says:
    The roster needs to be cut down to 53 men by Saturday. This is basically like cutting someone but getting a 5th round pick for it.

    BobbyAyala says: If you’re going to lose Wilson at the end of the season, then trading him for a fourth (which it will end up being) is hardly an “act of stupidity.”

  56. DJammmer says:

    SteelBlue + CreamRanger…

    You can’t say this is an early move to cutting to 53. For good teams, cutting to 53 means you cut the guys ranked 54-80 on your team. There is no way that Wilson wasn’t in the top 53 on this team. No way.

  57. Dukeshire says:

    You’re including Jamar Adams as one of the young backs of their future? He’s a year younger only than Wilson and likely won’t make the team. And Lewis is 25. That hardly makes Wilson an old timer who by the way is 25).

    Thomas can play corner but he was brought in a play FS so you can amend that particular list where he’s the #1.

    Sadly he wasn’t traded because he didn’t fit the scheme, he does. He was traded because they are sold on Thurmond and he has value unlike Lewis, Jennings or Adams.

    If were talking about a player that doesn’t fit the scheme as was a part of “two miserable football teams”, how is Jordan Babineaux not met with the Turk yet?

  58. Dukeshire says:

    SteelBlueLime – Wilson was in no jeopardy of being cut. And why do agree with BobbyA’s assumption they would lose him at the end of the year? There is absolutely no way to know that. And if he did walk they would receive a comp pick.

  59. ballgame says:

    They most have felt that jennings beat wilson out, so they took the 5th round pick this year. There was no way they were bring back next year he didn’t win the job this year, so wilson would have been a nickel back this year and a comp pick for a nickel back is a 7th round pick, one that would have been lost by signing a FA next year. I wouldn’t count on comp picks with as active as we are in the free agent market. So they turned a guy who was not in their long term plans and turned it into a 5th. Makes us worse this year but at value going forward

  60. Dukeshire says:

    That all sounds reasonable except for the part where he was beat out by Jennings. There is simply no way that is the case. We all saw the games. So please, let’s be honest. This is a comment on what they see in Thurmond, not Jennings.

  61. mrbaileyboy says:

    Wilson gets to go home and play. He went to school at Maryland. Lives outside Baltimore. A good deal for him. For us who knows.

  62. these moves are why we never win a superbowl new people take over but its still the same

  63. Dukeshire says:

    John Morgan puts it quite well;

    Here’s the skinny: Josh Wilson is a 25-year old corner and former second-round pick that has amassed in three seasons, and mostly on very poor pass defenses, more value than an average fifth-round pick amasses in their entire career. He is a ball hawk and an impresario of the pick six. In two seasons starting, he has six interceptions and three returned for touchdowns. Wilson has averaged 43.5 yards per interception.

    … He is an excellent nickelback, a sound and sometimes punishing open field tackler (Wilson forced three fumbles in 2008) that has shown improving cover skills. His tools, minus his height, are off the charts. He ran a legitimate 4.39 forty at the 2007 NFL Combine. That showing bests all defensive backs in the 2010 class. Every single one of them. 58 of the very best talents in college football, including Eric Berry, Earl Thomas and Taylor Mays, and not one ran a faster forty than Wilson. He also flashed a 36.5 inch vertical, popped 20 reps on the bench and scored a 29 on the Wonderlic. Seattle just turned what every team hopes a second-round pick can become into a fifth-round pick.

  64. Duke – thanks for that depressing read.

    For those of you who question if we would get a comp. pick in return…

    A big part of receiving a comp. pick is the dollar value of the contract(s) of the player(s) you lose. The higher the dollars they make in free agency, the higher your comp. pick(s) the following year.

    This regime has proven they aren’t going to go out and spend huge dollars in free agency. In English — this means that if we lose players who sign decent contracts, we will be awarded comp. picks.

    In my opinion, we just traded 1-year of service from Josh Wilson and a 4th or 5th round pick in 2012 for a 5th round pick in 2011. How does this make any sense?

    Again, if Wilson wouldn’t have gotten a big money contract from someone else… we could have resigned him at a reasonable salary.

    But if Wilson got a big, fat contract that we couldn’t or wouldn’t match — then we are looking at about a 4th round pick in 2012.

    There’s no way anyone can say this makes any sense. It’s a bad deal and Schneider just lost a lot of the credibility he has built up by saying the offer was too good to pass up.

    This regime has built some credibility with a pretty good off-season but this is certainly a black eye on their report card.

  65. Anyone remember when Holmgren came aboard and traded or let go Galloway, Ahman Green, Phillip Daniels, Sam Adams, Pete Kendall, James McKnight and Jon Kitna? Now those were quality, young players who put in strong seasons with their future teams (with the possible exception of Kitna). The results also turned out well for Holmgren.

    Sims, Tapp, LoJack, Wilson are at best mediocre players who were contributors to a historically bad run by the Seahawks, saved only by the Rams. These players also put up most of their stats against the Rams. None of these 4 will approach the success the players Holmgren let go.

  66. And if a response is that we have sucked for two years so it’s okay we get rid of everyone — then is it okay to trade Mebane for a 4, Unger for a 5, J-Force for a 5, Heater for a 6, Red for a 6, etc? We would end up a winless team with a bunch of crappy 5th round picks and become a huge laughing stock.

    Just because we have been bad for two years doesn’t mean that we don’t have some players who can be part of the solution. Wilson was part of the solution, not the problem.

  67. This isn’t huge for me, but i think I would have rather seen Jennings go. I also do not feel they got value, if Baltimore wanted Wilson as badly as has been reported, we should have at least gotten a 3rd rounder or a serviceable back up ot for him.

  68. DJammmer says:

    +1 (dukeshire’s comments quoting morgan.)

    some interesting stats…
    Seattle only had 2 defensive scores last year, both Pick-Sixes by wilson.
    Which means he was only 1 TD less than Burley, and Hoosh (@3), and Tied w/ Branch (@2).

    He has more career TDs for the Seahawks than:
    Trufant (1)
    Tatupu (1)
    Babineaux (1)
    Jennings (0)

    Hoosh (3)
    Butler (0)

    Infact, he has more nfl pick-6s than the rest of the corners combined.

    I’m not saying, he’s the greatest thing ever… but he’s young (25), cheap (500K), fast (4.39), not short (relative to roster), AND WILL BE PLAYING FOR A CONTRACT.

    Seems like the wrong time to trade him.

  69. ballgame says:

    The thing with comp picks is they are offset by the players you sign and with the way this front office seems to want to turn over this roster I would except them to be very active in FA thus I wouldn’t except much in the way of comp picks. So the way I see it we just turned a player not in the hawks future plans (wrong or right) and turned it into value. This is what we need to be doing speed up the rebuilding process

  70. I’d take a 5 for Unger at this point.

  71. This is just so funny to me. Wake up people, he’s not Darrell Revis! When Kurt Warner was marching down the field and completing every single pass, where was Wilson? We had the 30th ranked pass defense, no one player was not replaceable on squads that have won 9 games in two years.

    John Morgan is also pissed we got rid of tap, I for one am more than happy to be getting rid of the fast smaller type “Tampa Bay Defense” players that would thrive in college, yet are liabilities when you go against the bigger and stronger teams.

  72. Some of you are talking as if compensatory picks are more predictable than they really are.

    We don’t even know if that system will still be in place after this year.

  73. My guess is everyone got excited watching Josh Wilson scoring TDs taking Kickoff returns back against the 2007 Rams and intercepting JT Sullivan, Kyle Boller and Matthew Stafford for his other 3 TDs. Some fans even get excited watching Tapp abuse the Rams backup Tackles for half his career sacks.

    But then its ok when Tapp disappears against a decent Tackle or Wilson spends an entire afternoon chasing around Fitzgerald or Boldin while they rack up 100 yards each because they are “elite”, they are supposed to have their way with everyone and the Seahawks are just lucky to keep it close.

  74. seatowntp says:

    I hope that Josh Wilson has a MONSTER year playing for the Ravens. I hope he far exceeds anything we have seen in Seattle. Knowing Seattle recent luck with injuries and the importance of depth we should be seeing Cord Parks as our starting RCB by about December. Then maybe the front office will re-think that the Wilson deal was too good to pass up. Wilson for a 5th is too good to pass up? That is so effed up. It SUCKS to be a Seahawks fan.

  75. seatowntp says:

    Maybe we can trade Okung tomorrow for a 4th round selection in 2012?

  76. This would be aittle less stinging if we were able to get an impact player in return… Or someone who could contribute right away like Jared Gaither…

  77. Yahoo is reporting as a “conditional 5th round pick”, and “If he plays a lot, then the Seahawks will obtain the Ravens’ 2011 fourth-round draft pick.”

    This was a “A deal the Hawks couldn’t pass up” for our 2nd best CB?? huh?

  78. azhawkman says:

    like everyone it seems, wish this was Jennings and not Wilson. But, probably not many teams willing to trade picks for a CB that gets mismatched and looks like a rag-doll while these big receivers shed his puny tackling. Honestly Lewis and Thurmond look more legit and promising than keeping Jennings in the starting lineup. Jennings causes big matchup issues for us vs. the Niners and Cards. That’s my opinion at least.

  79. freedom_X says:

    If Wilson’s such a mediocre player, why do the Ravens, who have championship aspirations and a savvy GM in Newsome, want Wilson at all?

    This only makes sense to me if Wilson is a coaching headache. Maybe Wilson is unhappy because he lost his starting job and is pulling a Leinart, whining about it and complaining how he is being shafted.

    In that case, Seattle’s probably doing the right thing in dumping Wilson for a pick – it’s a lot more than AZ is going to get for Leinart.

    It would surprise me since Wilson has a good reputation, but I did hear a bit of chatter of him being unhappy at losing his starting position.

  80. I know this has all been said, but Jennings must give a good bj to keep his job.

  81. yellaman says:

    I’m ok with the move of wilson. I wish Jennings was gone as well. I’m tired of opposing teams WR’s beating our small corners. While I would have like to see jenning leave 1st but Wilson was a casualty of a new coaching staff. Just remember this is a Ruskell pick and he probably wasn’t worth a 2nd round pick at the time of his draft. Ruskell probably over valued wilson so getting a 5th maybe 4th for wilson is ok. Did anybody see Wilson stacken up against the Fitzgeralds or Crabtree’s in this division? Not me- good luck Wilson

  82. yellaman says:

    Seahawk fans just remember this team hasn’t been competitive for 2 years. Some players need to be let go and new ones need to be given chances to play. Just look at the players the team has let go this off season its unsuccessful Ruskell picks. I expect more moves to come. This team is another year or 2 away from returning to its glory years again so just calm down hawk fans and hope for a better future

  83. tp10super10 says:

    seatowntp- “It SUCKS to be a Seahawks fan”

    Then go away..we don’t want you as a “fan” anyway. Complain about every single move and catastrophise the team trading a 5’7 nickel CB who was going to play a MAX of 16 games for this franchise. Do you want a 5’7 guy who isn’t going to play next year playing or would you want the (without the knee injury) 2nd round CB gaining experience by playing and getting this team ready to win by 2012.

    As for the compensation that some people made so “easy’ to understand.. With no CBA in place, yes you can spend money on players this year with no cap, but do you honestly think they were going to sign Wilson to a 5 year deal? No. Period. Everything in this league is up in the air. Go back to the CBA/Player Union rules the last time it expired and look at the differences in UFA, RFA, Franchise/Transition tags, etc…who knows if compensatory picks will be be part of the deal..and if they are, they may very well be different.

    And BobbyK, there are stats on CB’s..and Kelly Jennings ranked in the top 10 in yards allowed per attempt and completion % against. I only took like 2 minutes to search for the link, but i didn’t feel like doing more than that. This info comes from Pro Football Weekly’s NFL Preview Mag.

    At this exact time next year the only holdover that will be starting in our secondary will be Trufant. I think he’s looked great in preseason..and finally healthy. Thurmond will be on the other side with ET and Chancellor at Safety. Jennings can be my nickel corner any day of the week.. And in the middle of everyone freaking out, what does this team miss by having Roy Lewis playing Dime vs. Josh Wilson? What did Josh Wilson do to cause everyone to have the biggest emotional breakdown of the year?

    He was a ballhawk…sure. He was also 5’7. He made some really nice plays that actually saved games for us..the KR @STL in ’07, the Pick6 @SF in ’07, the KR vs. STL in ’08, and the Pick6 vs. Detroit last year…he made some plays…on a terrible team that had a bottom 5 pass defense. Blame it on the pass rush all you want, but I can tell you this… Last season, Cincinatti had 34 sacks..only 6 more than Seattle..but they were 6th in pass defense. And that was with Roy Williams starting almost half their games. So you can play the “chicken or the egg” BS all you want, but it’s all about players.

    Was Josh Wilson going to directly make this team better in 2012? As a kick returner you say? Walter Thurmond was going to be at least 2nd team All American at KR before shredding his knee..on a kick return… I’m not sure if I believe in Golden Tate as a KR..definitely as a PR…and as for this season, Leon Washington (the best KR in the NFL 2007-2008) should be able to handle things ok. What about the compensation in this deal? Our 3rd 4th round pick should not only give us opportunity to get more depth in the secondary, but ammo to move up and maybe get a CB who runs a 4.4 40 who isn’t an Umpa Lumpa.

    You’re not going to pay a 5’7 CB any sort of contract, you get a nice midround pick for him, and you get an opportunity to get the CB of the future more PT and get ready to take the spot over for when we actually can compete for this division again (right…that’s not happening this year). Also, PC and JS both mentioned around draft time that one thing that was so attractive about Earl Thomas was that you didn’t have to take him out on 3rd down..he’s a 4 down FS who has cover skills enough to slide into the slot in nickel packages or be single safety in dime… I also think it allows them to move Babs back over to CB and give us size there. I don’t really like his coverage skills, but he’s really good in zone and is physical, but with Chancellor and Lawyer he just doesn’t have a spot.

    So for this 6 win team our CB’s could be Trufant, Thurmond, Jennings, Lewis, and possibly Babs. Is that cause for the mass hysteria? Throw Wilson’s name in the middle of that list..does it make it really THAT much better? I will say this..the timing of the move is curious, but if a team is beating down the door begging to give you a 4th round pick for a 5’7 CB who won’t be playing for you in 5 months…yes please.

    I have absolutely ZERO problems with this move. Apparently cats and dogs will be living together soon and the apocolypse is upon us, but that’s what midget CB’s do..they cause the end of days. Really nice work by everyone crapping their pants though..especially BobbyK…just classic work. I read someone on in Sando’s blog who said, “this move is up there right below the Hutchinson deal as the 2nd worst move in the history of the franchise”. I lost the bet on that one…i had the over on comments read before moronic “fans” bring up Hutchinson.

    I was really hoping to write enough that people would stop reading the comments because they saw how much people were writing. I wouldn’t want young, influential Seahawk fans coming in here and reading that trading Josh Wilson is the equivilant of dismantaling the 1995 Dallas Cowboys secondary. It’s embarassing. This really is worth freaking out about? Do you realize how dumb some of these comments sound? Oh God, we traded our 3rd CB for a decent draft pick so one of our CB’s of the future can play more. This is awful. You hypocrites would have been calling out names if this FO signed Wilson to a 5 year $37 mil with 15 guranteed….and if you say you wouldn’t, you’re lying. This isn’t Darrell Green we’re talking about here.

    I wish the best for Josh Wilson…he played well and hard for a terrible team. It would have been nice for him to have been here when better players were around him and the franchise had a little more stability but he had no ties to the new FO and didn’t fit into their plans (although he fits into most overhead compartments). He’s 25 now..when he’s 28 he’s still going to be 5’7. And slower. Santonio Holmes went to NYJ for a 5th rounder. Kerry Rhodes went for a 4th rounder. Ted Ginn for a 5th rounder. Anquan Boldin for a 5th rounder. Chris Houston for a 5th rounder. Tony Scheffler for a 5th round pick. Do any of these players stick out more than the others? Probably Boldin and Holmes (considering he was SB MVP and went for 1,200 and 5 last yr) and they went to NYJ and Balt for 5th round picks. How many Pro Bowls do they have combined? Or even Kerry Rhodes for that matter…we got the same compensation for Josh Wilson as Zona got for Anquan Boldin?? Point is, the market for trades in the NFL changes by the month, by the week, and by the team/players involved. For a backup CB, getting a 5th or better is a steal…even though he was really convenient to pack in my carry-on.



  84. tp10super10 says:

    What’s that? Josh Wilson is 5’9 and not 5’7?? Yeah right, and Grizzly Adams had a beard..

  85. tp10super10 says:

    It’s so amusing to me how some of you pledge your allegance by spouting off factual anecdotes thinking that makes you more of a “fan” and are in here no less than 1 week ago praising the FO for “cleaning house” and changing the roster of a terrible team that had losing ways and bringing in hungry players and guys who needed another chance…

    Then 1 backup CB later, they are all terrible. It’s over…burn it down. Just classic Seattle sports fans.. Get on or off. Questioning a move or maybe not agreeing with it is one thing (we’ve all seen/done plenty of that over the past 3 years) but calling for a mutiny after they trade a backup is embarassing. Challenge it, question it, bring up other options…but you guys are calling them a failure and “this is why we are always bad” quotes?? “Fans” saying they don’t even want to root for this team after this? Are you serious? What a CF…I really look for inspiration and logic in this room and am constantly disappointed. Maybe this time I’ll have learned my lesson.

  86. Dukeshire says:

    It’s astonishing to me that many people here will, on one hand, say this is one of the worst pass D in the league, therefore Wilson is expendable. But on the other are content to include Jennings and Babs (and even Adams in one case) as part of the future. Wilson is one of the reason they weren’t dead last.

    And this notion that keeps coming up that there is no way Seattle would have retained him after this season is pure speculation. There is no evidence to support that.

    If one comes here “looking for logic”, then perhaps they should start with yourself. Boldin was shipped on the cheap due to his persistant contract headaches. Wilson has no such baggage. The comparison is irrelevant as is the case with nearly all the players mentioned, who either underperformed expectations or had off the field issues.

    If you believe what you said here; “…he played well and hard for a terrible team. It would have been nice for him to have been here when better players were around him…” then you acknowledge he was part of the solution to improving the pass D as player like Thurmond were added.

    You want to talk about a guy who embodies Carroll’s “compete” mantra, it was Wilson. He did everything that was asked of him and did well with 100% effort, every time. The odds of Seattle turning that 4th round pick (hopefully it becomes that) into the level contribuitor Wilson was, is very long at best. When you draft a guy in the second round, you expect him to become the player that Wilson was.

  87. I could’nt copy and paste Petes last comment on this issue over at O’Neils but in sum it says,,

    ,,,we want to become a place where teams come at us for our players. We could do it at this position but not at others at this time.

    Setting up the precedent that we are open for business and have the goods is the goal and is the bigger picture in the plan for building for the future. In a win now culture you are going to have to take some heat along this way.

  88. Sarcasticus says:

    Great post tp10super10.

    Unfortunately, it was well written, long and salient, and will thusly be avoided by many.

    It is the rare post that makes skipping past most of the drivel to this so rewarding.

    However, as a long time reader, you must realize that a sensible approach won’t work.

  89. Dukeshire says:

    Schneider values draft picks over players, which in many cases is a good thing. He has had great success building throught the draft. But it does make me question his process in evaluating pro player personnel. We know Carroll / Schneider like players to fit a certain profile based on position. And I presume because Wilson doesn’t fit their profile at corner, he was devalued and thus made expendible.

    That quote is interesting because it would be great to be in a position where the talent is so deep that teams come to them in that way. But despite the prceived depth at corner, this team isn’t there just yet. In other words, they are in no position to jettison talent at bargin basement prices, IMO.

  90. Norseman says:

    getting a fourth round pick for wilson is pretty good value, a fifth round pick is okay. draft picks are the most valuable currency in the nfl, and only a handful of players are good enough to command high draft pick compensation after several years in the league. darrelle revis is one such player, vincent jackson is finding out he is not. to think that a 2nd round pick, 3 years removed from his rookie year, and the second best member of the secondary on a bad team, would command a 2nd or even 3rd round pick is ridiculous. we got good value for a pretty okay player who will be a free agent next year. good, aggressive decision making by the front office.

  91. I think most of the ground here has already been covered by now: we all liked Josh, he was short, 30th ranked defense, etc.

    The one thing that I do like about this deal is that, assuming it become a fourth, given our list of 2011 picks it makes it much more likely that we get back into the 3rd round (thank you, Clipboard Jesus), which is where we might actually find a player. In an ideal world, you are turning Rob Sims and and Josh Wilson (quality depth) into Mebane or Leroy Hill (a good starter). Obviously no guarantees in the draft. But I have to think they are trying to get back into the 3rd, and that makes sense to me.

  92. chuck_easton says:

    Although Duke is getting to the point through an emotional rant I agree with him on one point.

    This isn’t a Jennings is better than Wilson position being taken by the team.

    This is a situation where the team has determined that Thurmond is going to be better than BOTH Jennings and Wilson. To make room for Thurmond and to give him playing time one of the two (Jennings or Wilson) currently ahead of him on the depth chart needed to go.

    Wilson had trade value, Jennings didn’t. The team has taken the step to make room for Thurmond and picked up a 4th rounder in the process.

    We may not like it, but if Thurmond truly is the starter of the future (and I think that future is coming sooner than we might expect), then this move makes some sense.

  93. Hammajamma says:

    This will not be significant at the end of the season. PC sees Thurmond as a starter opposite Tru, leaving JW in the nickle at best. You traded your nickleback for a potential 4, and as has been stated here previously, The Schneid loves draft picks. It’s one area where he excels. Carry on PC, stick with the plan.

  94. What gives someone the clout to say who Seahawk fans can and can’t like, say, and do?

    If you’re a fan. You’re a fan. No fan has the right to tell someone can’t be a fan just because they don’t agree with them.

    And just because the front office people are the experts doesn’t mean they can’t be questioned? Aren’t we allowed to question our government? The framers expected us to do our duty and question injustices, just as fans have a right to question what some feel are questionable moves. They are the experts and they have to make tough decisions and no leader has ever not been questioned. I respect them for this. I hope it works out (but I don’t like the move and have voiced my opinion, which I’m entitled to do). I’m certainly not going to play the role of a zombie and blindly follow the new regimes. We’ve gone through too many regimes without ever winning a Super Bowl for me to give a free pass to anyone/everyone who walks in the door and takes over this franchise. When they get this program winning and get us a ‘W’ in the Super Bowl, then and only then, will they have built the clout to have earned the benefit of the doubt on a more regular basis.

    We will all move on from this and be screeming our lungs out in week 1, but in the meantime, will all agree and disagree on things. Hopefully, it’s respectfully, but emotion always gets the best of most of us sometimes.

    No matter what, this was a bad move in my opinion. Lets hope there are more good moves than bad moves moving forward.

  95. I understand that CBs like Wilson and Jenning do not fit what Carroll wants for the future. But a conditional 4th/5th round pick? That was an offer they could not refuse to take for one of their only playmakers on defense??

    The pressure is now on Walter Thurmond and Roy Lewis. Those are the two guys that supposedly make Wilson expendable. Thurmond could replace Jennings as the starter opposite Trufant once his knee is 100% and he gets a little experience under his best. At that point, Jennings could be perfectly capable defending in the slot as nickel CB, at least until Schneider sends him packing too. But why so much faith in Roy Lewis to be the #4 CB? I don’t see it If one of our top three gets injured, especially Trufant, then we be hurting.

    I am mostly pissed that we lost a real playmaker. Wilson had all the intangibles you want in a defensive player. He made things happen. He made players around him better with his constant aggressiveness. What the hell happened to ALWAYS COMPETE? I guess Carroll and Schneider meant “ALWAYS COMPETE FOR 2011.”

  96. yellaman says:

    totally agree with Chuck easton’s comments on the wilson move. Duke- hawk fans liked Wilson as a player but with the hawks being a mediocre team right now his movement make sense since nobody wants Jennings. Hawk fans need to embrace the turnover of players because I see more moves coming and it needs to happen if we are to get better.

  97. Stinks like menstruation in here…

    pabuwal said…

    My guess is everyone got excited watching Josh Wilson scoring TDs taking Kickoff returns back against the 2007 Rams and intercepting JT Sullivan, Kyle Boller and Matthew Stafford for his other 3 TDs. Some fans even get excited watching Tapp abuse the Rams backup Tackles for half his career sacks.

    But then its ok when Tapp disappears against a decent Tackle or Wilson spends an entire afternoon chasing around Fitzgerald or Boldin while they rack up 100 yards each because they are “elite”, they are supposed to have their way with everyone and the Seahawks are just lucky to keep it close.

    Great post. Also nice wall of text by tp10super10 . I’d quote it… but no.

    I do wish they’d gotten a defensive player, any defensive player, back from Baltimore… they know how to draft.

  98. nighthawk2 says:

    Stinks like stupidity in here…

    Yeah, Wilson only played well against bad teams. That’s the ticket.

    “That said, a move that appears to look like Seattle may have wound up with the short end of the stick by sending Josh Wilson to Baltimore for what has been reported as a fifth-round pick appears to have been sped up by the play of Marcus Trufant, and ultimately Walter Thurmond.”

    This is beyond stupid, it’s in the mega-stupid range. Wilson was one of the very few good draft picks that Tim Numbskull made, and we trade him for a six pack of Michelob. Short end of the stick is right. They keep Kelly freaking Jennings and trade Wilson? Carroll’s anti-depressants are really kicking in. If Jennings starts, this team will not win more than 6 games this year. Have they not seen this idiot play?

    “Hawk fans need to embrace the turnover of players because I see more moves coming and it needs to happen if we are to get better.”

    Yeah, we need more 5th round picks in exchange for good players. I’d “embrace” turning over crap like Jennings and Spencer. Looks like the Mariners mentality has infected the Seahawks, someone is good so let’s trade him so we don’t have to pay him anything on a new contract. Brilliant.

  99. Dukeshire says:

    yellaman / chuck_easton; “Wilson had trade value, Jennings didn’t.” & “This is a situation where the team has determined that Thurmond is going to be better than BOTH Jennings and Wilson.”

    I have said just that multiple times in multiple posts, since the trade. The problem is that scenario (Thurmond exceeding their expectations) doesn’t exclude Wilson from having an important role on this team. Teams don’t get better by having less talent. And with Wilson now gone and the overwhelming possibility that whomever they take with the pick they got in return not matching his production, this team has become worse. It was an awful trade and terrible personnel decision. That doesn’t come from emotion. That comes from a rational evaluation.

  100. Pete Carroll had one starting CB under 6 ft tall in 9 years at USC. He has a system that he believes in, and it includes big & tall CB’s. Josh Wilson didn’t fit. Neither does Jennings. Wilson had more value. Thurmond will be the starter soon.

  101. seatowntp says:

    Hey tp10super10! You may be calling me out, but you have the wrong person. I’ve been a fan since day one. I’ve been a fan living in the shadows of Gillette Stadium. If I wanted to bandwagon, I could have been a Patsies fan and celebrated undeserved rings. (I HATE the Patsie cheaters!) I was born and raised in on Capitol Hill (when it was populated by big Catholic families) and I bleed Seahawks blue. You claimed I complain about every single move. You are full of it. I’ve been writing on this blog since Sando was the “blog master supreme.” I’ve questioned the Whitehurst move, and blasted the Wilson move. Oh, yeah, and a few years ago I blasted the clusterHutch. I challenge you to find another time when I spoke negatively of the Seahawks FO. When, in my mind, they make a significant blunder, I express myself. So get your facts straight before spouting off.

  102. bs10964 says:


  103. jdaniels13 says:

    The key point is Josh Wilson is an unrestricted free agent at season’s end. For ONCE the Hawks have enough DB talent to actually consider it a surplus area.
    They got value that will likely help the team for FOUR years or more, assuming we get a 4th rounder when all is said and done.
    Remember 2005 Super Bowl season? The real reason we lost wasn’t the refs. It was no Ken Hamlin and even his replacement got injured (Marquand Manuel I think). That Willie Parker 75 yard TD run is what won the game. Safety and CB DBs who can support the run will cut down on those longie TD runs the Seahawks seem to give up a lot of.

    So celebrate our DB depth! Josh, we love you, and good luck in Baltimore, kick butt!
    Love our new Seahawks front office too, they are making smart choices, even if some are a little emotionally tough.

  104. SharkHawk says:

    Wait… so our problems in the past were related to DB’s, but you claim we have depth now that we’ve traded Josh Wilson? Who takes his place? Jennings? That guy flat out sucks at football. Sorry. We just traded away our depth. Babs is getting old and is terrible in coverage. Adams has never done anything. Thurmond is a major injury risk and a rookie to boot. Trufant has a bad back and may never be the same, Milloy is as old as me.

    That isn’t depth. Josh Wilson actually was giving us some depth because he gave us a guy opposite Tru to start. Now we don’t have a “real starter” opposite Trufant, which doubles the pressure on him. They will throw at Jennings all game and Trufant will be worn out covering their best receiver and will get worked in the 4th quarter from having to zigzag across the field covering for Jennings and the alignments that force mismatches with Jennings. This was a stupid move by a team that shows little value for draft picks and their importance, and even less interest in retaining their actual good young players.

    They could have signed Wilson yesterday to a long extension whether he will be a free agent or not. They are being tight with the cash obviously. Who cares if he were going to be restricted? By all accounts he loved Seattle, loved playing for the team, and if you pay the guy he will stick around. It wasn’t like Baltimore wanted him bad enough to overpay for him. They underpaid and got him anyway. What a joke.

  105. DJammmer says:

    Please, Please, Please… someone post the link that says Jennings was in the top 10 in CBs. I have to go read it to believe it. You can’t reference it as part of your arguement, and then not link to it.

    Look, I can’t go around arbitrarily claiming to be king, because someone through a sword at me… post the link that shows the stats saying Jennings was a top 10 corner… then I can get over this JW trade.

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