Seahawks Insider

Poll time: Starting running back competition revisited

Post by Eric Williams on May 29, 2010 at 8:53 am with 92 Comments »
May 29, 2010 8:54 am

Well, LenDale White is gone. And of course, he received the lion’s share of the votes in the last poll we conducted asking who would be the Seahawks’ starting running back when the regular season starts. So I thought it appropriate that we hold a revote. Here’s your second chance to weigh in on the running back situation.

Now that LenDale White has been released, who will be the Seattle Seahawks starting running back in 2010?

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  1. Dukeshire says:

    My answer has not changed. Little Big Man.

  2. J-Force!!!

  3. chuck_easton says:

    I’m betting he’s not on the team yet.

    As much as I hate to think it, I’m going with either Jones for another season or we could be looking at Lynch.

  4. Will we really have a true startin back? Sure on gamedays we’ll name one (my bet is still Forsett) but won’t they get pretty much the same time on the field, that’s what I personally think is mostly likely, but Forsett will be “the guy”

  5. Leroy Hill + Deion Branch for Marshawn Lynch and call it even!

  6. chuck_easton says:

    I just can’t see Forsett being named the starter. Not because I don’t like him. Not because I don’t think he’s productive. Mainly because I see the NFL as a league that has a set image of what a player should look like.

    I am shorter 5’9″ and had to always fight against the “your too small” line all the way through my high school and college athletic career to think that it doesn’t come into play.

    Sure he’s a very good back. But no matter what he does NFL personell people will just keep looking at him and thinking that he’s too small. They will always be looking for someone else. Unfortunately for Forsett that someone else is here. Put JJ and Forsett next to each other and you will automatically go with JJ who just looks the part.

    If no other back is brought in JJ will start. He’s led the team in rushing the last 2 years. JJ will get the bulk of the carries. Forsett will be the change of pace back that will likely end up with a better YPC average at the end of the season, but he will never be considered “the man”.

  7. Devinc253 says:

    Still goin for forsett

  8. Oh yeah…and sign T.O. to a one year deal. You think he wouldn’t thrive under this ultra competitive atmosphere. I think it’d light a fire under Housh for who the best WR was on the team. M. Williams, TO, Housh, Tate and Butler…lots of talent.

    End result would be:

    Branch/Hill
    for
    Lynch/TO

    You decide?

  9. Dukeshire says:

    “Put JJ and Forsett next to each other and you will automatically go with JJ who just looks the part.”

    That was certainly what Mora did. I’m hoping however, that the feature back under Carroll will be the player that performs best, regardless if he looks the part or not. If that ends up being Jones, then so be it. But from everything I have seen, Forsett is clearly the more productive and versatile back between the two.

  10. chuck_easton says:

    Duke,

    If it came down to who outplays the other than if’s probably Forsett. But my experience is that if you are small you have to be 5 times better and work 50 times harder than the guy who was blessed with that 6 foot body.

    No matter how good Forsett is, he will unfortunately spend his entire career having the team always looking for someone else. So far Forsett seems to understand this quite well and uses it more as motivation than as an excuse to have an attitude. But the reality is the team is ALWAYS going to be looking to replace him.

  11. Dukeshire says:

    chuck_easton – I certainly wouldn’t argue against that, other than to say that until they find someone to outperform him, he’s has earned his touches.

  12. Carroll goes for roster moves like a little kid in a candy store. For that reason I voted for someone not on the team. I would have no problem with Forsett being the starter. I thought he was the Hawks best RB last year.

    Who backs up Thomas at FS?

  13. Dukeshire says:

    I’m sure that comes down to Babs again.

  14. What??? Julius Jones is 5’10
    Forsett and Washington are 5’8 as was Barry Sanders, Ray Rice, DeAngello Williams. Maurice Jones Drew is 5’7 and Darren Sproles is but 5’6,
    Fact ~ most backs average height is 5’10 at 200 – 220 lbs.

    Eric Dickerson, Stephen Jackson, Adrian Peterson, Bo Jackson are all over 6’0 and an anomoly.

  15. I think that JJ will be the starting back but that as Chuck said does not mean much. PC will play whomever is the most effective against that particular opponent. J-force will get his yards and his carries. A lot can happen in training camp. Perhaps JJ has lost a step and one of the other backs step up and surprise everyone. I would be surprised (and disappointed) were we to trade draft picks for Lynch. If Lendale was released because he would not fit with the Seahawks, then it is hard to imagine PC wanting Lynch, even though he is an undeniable talent.

  16. Rushing Stats For ’09
    TEN:
    V.Young (6-5/233) 55 atts for 281 yds, 5.1 avg, 2 TDs, 2 fumbles, 6 broken tackles, averaged 1.6 more yds after 1st contact with defender.
    L.White (6-0/235) 64 atts for 222 yds, 3.5 avg, 2 TDs, 1 fumble, 6 broken tackles, averaged 2.1 more yds after 1st contact with defender.
    C.Johnson (5-11/193) 358 atts for 2037 yds, 5.7 avg, 14 TDs, 3 fumbles, 44 broken tackles, averaged 3.0 more yds after 1st contact with defender.

    White’s performance wasn’t all that good last season, V.Young’s was better. He sounded like he was going to turn over a new leaf and make the most of this new opportunity. Too bad, but really not that great of a loss for Hawks.

    SEA:
    MH (6-4/223) 25 atts for 121 yds, 4.8 avg, 0 TDs, no fumbles, 2 broken tackles, averaged 2.6 more yds after 1st contact with defender.
    SW (5-11/196) 15 atts for 2 yds, 0.1 avg, 1 TD, no fumbles, 0 broken tackles, averaged 0.2 more yds after 1st contact with defender.
    JJ (5-10/211) 177 atts for 673 yds, 3.8 avg, 2 TDs, no fumbles, 14 broken tackles, averaged 2.5 more yds after 1st contact with defender.
    JF (5-8/190) 114 atts for 623 yds, 5.5 avg, 4 TDs, 1 fumble, 23 broken tackles, averaged 3.2 more yds after 1st contact with defender.
    EJames (6-0/214) 46 atts for 125 yds, 2.7 avg, 0 TDs, no fumbles, 3 broken tackles, averaged 2.1 more yds after 1st contact with defender.
    LRankin (6-1/205) 8 atts for 36 yds, 4.5 avg, 1 TD, 1 fumble, 1 broken tackle, averaged 2.1 more yds after 1st contact with defender.

    NYJ:
    L.Washington (5-8/202) 71 atts for 330 yds, 4.6 avg, 1 TD, 1 fumble, 6 broken tackles, averaged 3.0 more yds after 1st contact with defender.

    DC:
    Q.Ganther (5-9/214) 62 atts for 199 yds, 3.2 avg, 3 TDs, no fumbles, 10 broken tackles, averaged 2.6 more yds after 1st contact with defender.

    BUF:
    M.Lynch (5-11/215) 120 atts for 450 yds, 3.8 avg, 2 TDs, no fumbles, 22 broken tackles, averaged 2.8 more yds after 1st contact with defender.

    Let’s say Hawks run 32 times per game. Say the OL’s pass pro is better and MH (or CW) only scrambles/sneaks 4 atts per game. Let O.Schmitt (or some acquired big back) run goalline and short yardage 5 times. Give JJ 9, and JF 9 carries. They should be up to that(?) That leaves L.Washington with 5 carries plus returns.

  17. oceanic says:

    I am posting this in late May of 1989.

    The Lions think they have a RB in rookie Barry Sanders but they better not try to make him an every down back. At 5’8″, 200 pounds, if they try to give him more than 10 carries a game he won’t last one season in the NFL. Mark my words, he is just too small.

  18. oceanic – too funny. Thanks for the laugh.

    I have said this before, but J-Force reminds me of Joe Morris. Joe Morris was supposedly too small to be a workhorse, but he was (for a Super Bowl winner whose bread and butter was the run). Granted, Morris was an early round pick (don’t remember the exact round, but pretty sure a 2nd or 3rd rounder) but I see a lot of Joe Morris in J-Force. My opinion is that J-Force could be a workhorse until he’s about 28-29 years old, but in our situation he won’t be. Granted, a guy like J-Force fizzle out a little earlier than the guys with more desired size (Barry Sanders is a freak, he doesn’t count because he wasn’t really human), but during their prime years, little guys like J-Force can kick ass. My only problem with J-Force is his lack of perceived ability to pick up the blitz. Other than that, I’ll run that little guy inside, outside (where he’s effective, but supposedly too slow), or throw the ball at him out of the backfield. I’m glad we have him!

  19. JRocket says:

    I agree with Excile, lots of small backs have been successful in the league. Brian Westbrook 5’8″ 200 lbs also. I want the Force!

  20. Joe Morris = Mercury Morris?

  21. “I have said this before, but J-Force reminds me of Joe Morris. ”

    What about another very productive former Giant – Dave Meggett?

  22. Dukeshire says:

    klm008 – What does that mean?

    pdway – Meggett was a little stud. But if I were to draw a parallel to a current Seahawk it would be Leon Washington. Dangerous return men (both punts and kick-offs) first, then versatile and situational receivers and rushers. (Thanks for dropping his name by the way, hadn’t thought about him in a while.)

  23. Interesting that this is the second time we had disappointed players from USC who played for PC. LenDale White is shocked that he was cut, and Taylor Mays was also angry when Seattle picked S Earl Thomas instead of him. Was PC more of a players coach in college, but now a little more hard nosed?

  24. nighthawk2 says:

    Julius Jones is great if you like 4-12 and 5-11 seasons. I don’t. And for those who want to whine about the o-line, compare Dallas when they had this bum and since they were smart enough to let him walk and be our problem. I don’t think his apologists watched any of the Seahawks games last year. Every time he was in the offense stunk, when Forsett was in something good happened. Looks the part? T.J. Duckett looked the part too. So did Dan McGwire.

  25. Sorry, I’m not remembering a Joe Morris that BobbyK referenced. Awhile back there was somebody called Eugene “Mercury” Morris, played for MIA, went to 3 probowls and 3 super bowls(?) Other than that, there’s MoMo? – OK just found a Joe. Played for the Giants in the 80’s http://www.nfl.com/players/joemorris/profile?id=MOR449175, can that be the guy?

    Dave Meggett was a stud returner. Parcells always usta like smaller backs, at least for returners. Too bad he had off field problems that wrecked his career.

  26. Every once inna while I enjoy reading something about the ’05 Seahawks. Here’s something about the Hawks run-game: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2261014 ;-)

  27. oceanic says:

    Maybe everyone knows this but just in case, only five teams are ahead of Seattle for waiver wire players.

    I hope Paloma Renosa doesn’t do in Jethro Gibbs old man.

  28. The Giants’ Joe Morris is who reminds me of J-Force. Dave Meggett does not remind me of him. Meggett was a stud returner and situational runner (3rd down back). Except that I think Force could do well as a situational 3rd down back (does not have the kick return skills though). However, I think of Force as more than a 3rd down back; I think he’s a guy who can pound the rock, regardless of size. Meggett could not pound it the way Force will.

    I remember Joe Morris getting mad at Karl Mecklenburg prior to the Giants-Broncos Super Bowl because #77 was asked a question about how hard it’s going to be to stop Morris… Mecklenburg said that the Broncos had already faced our very own Curt Warner twice that season and he was a better runner than Morris (not in style, just in effectiveness).

  29. chuck_easton says:

    nighthawk,

    I agree that Forsett SHOULD be the starter. I am just saying that NFL teams go off of measurables. That is why I don’t think Forsett WILL be named the starter no matter how deserving he might be.

    I hope I am proven wrong, but I fear that I will be proven right and we will see JJ as the starter and Forsett as the change of pace back.

  30. IdahoHawk says:

    Give Forsett 25-30 carries a game….
    1400yds. this year
    High number but it will happen.
    Seattle wins the NFC West

  31. IdahoHawk says:

    I don’t remeber who posted the link to Yards/after contact but the litlle guy led the who NFL. 5.6 yds/carry last year. GIVE HIM THE BALLLL.

  32. Dukeshire says:

    In today’s NFL you’re not going to see 25 carries per anymore. The days of Larry Johnson, LaDainian Tomlison, Clinton Portis, even Shaun Alexander are over, or certainly diminished. Those 350 carry seasons are career enders. If we have to put a number on it, average of 15-18 carries per for Forsett would be the max I’d like to see. 240 – 260 carries over the season puts him in the Rice, Moreno, Forte, Grant range. In other words; it’s not about who’s named “starter” but who the feature back is. Who do you build your running game around and what type of backs do you compliment him with? Forsett is the guy I want Seattle to build around. Adding a back like Lynch as an example, whose style is a good balance to Forsett’s, would be an awesome compliment. But in any case, this is how I hope they approach the running back situation.

  33. Chuck e,

    Let me get this straight. So you think JJ will be given the starting nod by our coaching staff just because he is taller even though forsett was named the most elusive back, has looked better in offseason practices, had a higher ypc, and had more TDs with less carries? Why does that make sense?

  34. chuck_easton says:

    Nate,

    I say that because the NFL is a league where the player has to fit a certain mold. J.J. is bigger and heavier and, as I said before, if you stand J.J. and Forsett next to each other and asked which one is the NFL running back, without knowing either guy or their past performance most NFL personnell people would say J.J. LOOKS more like the NFL back. I don’t like it as I was always the small guy who was not given a chance simply based on my size and I had to go out and fight and prove the perception wrong. But it IS a reality.

    Look around the NFL. Sando just did a piece with an NFL person who made the comments that though Forsett has good numbers there is the thought that he could not hold up to the every down pounding that a starting back has to take. It’s not my perception. It is the NFL perception.

    I hope I’m wrong, but I am betting that either JJ is named the starter over Forstett or the team goes out and gets another back that will be named the starter over Forsett.

  35. And then there’s Chris Johnson (who defies “todays” NFL).

  36. Anyone else watch NFLN the other night? 10 most controversial calls of all time? #8 on the list wasn’t a “call,” but rather SB XL. I’d say it was funny, but all it did was make me mad.

  37. oceanic says:

    Some things you don’t get over. The phantom Vinny TD, losing Hutch, the Twin Towers, SB XL.

  38. I still haven’t gotten over the Oiler play-off game where Fredd Young picked off Moon but the refs didn’t call it a pick. We would have won that game.

  39. Dukeshire says:

    Jerry Glanville was my neighbor here in Portland before he resigned from the Portland St. I would see him fairly regularly in the mornings when I walk my dog. Every time I saw him, I thought about that play. He knew that was a pick too. That was deep in Oiler territory in O.T.. That was the first of many bad calls. How about Keyshawn Johnson stepping out of bounds in the end zone on Monday Night Football in ’04 in the 4th, but the refs gave him the TD anyway?

  40. Sometimes you can just kinda tell when someone isn’t quite built to take a workhorse kind of role.
    While we are throwing out old names.. when Reggie Bush came out of SoCal, I likened him to Fred Mcafee(old saints multi-purpose back), Eric Metcalf(longtime Brown) and a little of Glyn Milburn ; all effective players, but were 3rd down backs or used mostly out of the slot.

    Unfortunately, I don’t see any of the backs we have as having a workhorse build- though Forsett is stoutly built and rarely takes a direct hit. I definately wouldn’t mind if they could find a solid star back in the near future.
    Hard to wait another year though :/

  41. Dukeshire says:

    BobbyK – We’ll see how Tenn. uses Johnson moving forward. But even with his incredible work load last season he averaged 22 caries a game.

  42. chuck_easton says:

    I know I’m taking the unpopular position regarding Forsett. In fact, I don’t even like it as I would love to see him be the starter. I’m just throwing out the voice of the NFL mindset. It’s all about how the player looks.

    You can name all those small backs and they are valid. I can throw out the following:

    Doug Flutie: Was ‘too small’ to be an NFL QB…all he did was win, but was always fighting to prove he belonged.

    Warren Moon: Was too, well you get the picture, to be an NFL QB in the early 80’s. All he did was go to the CFL, win 5 Grey Cups, finally get his shot in the NFL and make the HOF. But he had to fight the NFL perception at the time.

    Drew Brees: Is ‘too small’ to be an NFL QB which is why San Diego dumped him for the better NFL body of Phillips. And what has Brees done?

    Toby Gerhart: See Warren Moon in reverse.

    This is why Forsett wasn’t drafted until the 7th round. This is why Forsett will always be fighting to prove he belongs. This is why the team will always be looking for the true NFL back to replace him. I’m rooting for him, but he has an uphill battle no matter how much of a fan favorite he is.

  43. Duke – I remember you talking about the Glanville – Fredd Young play. Small world.

  44. Dukeshire says:

    Chuck – I think the issue I have with your view is that it operates under the premise that there is a certain profile of an NFL player. And once a player is acquired that fits that profile for a given position, the team no longer looks to upgrade that position. This is simply not true. With very few exceptions, every team looks to upgrade every position every year with better players, regardless of that players “profile”. Now, they may begin that search with a ideal in mind but every player has to prove and reprove themselves each season. Does someone who lacks certain measurables face more scrutiny? I think so, yes. But Forsett isn’t just shorter than ideal, he’s also slower. Forsett is as much about intangibles (heart) as he is talent. Any athlete that relies more on skill than talent will face this uphill battle. But I think you are selling Carroll’s desire to field a winner and competitive team well short of reality. He will play the players that perform best, as they earn that privilege through competition every day, regardless of what a tape measure or stop watch reflects. I don’t think your view is as unpopular as it is a touch narrow. (No offense intended.)

  45. ruminator1 says:

    on the 10 most controversial calls show, the choice of the hawk’s superbowl involved not one but 3 such calls. as for RB, i hope all you forsett fans are correct. personally, i would prefer a healthy washington as #1 with the different styles of the other 2 for change of pace. i know there are a couple of other backs out there who are upset at #2 status. mayb e these are options?

  46. chuck_easton says:

    Duke,

    No offense taken. And as I said, if it were my decision he’d be the starter. I’m just putting out the opposing position so if/when J.J. or some other back that isn’t on the roster is named the starting RB come September there won’t be the general “HUH???” coming from the masses.

    If Forsett is named the starting RB I’ll be cheering for him just as loudly as everyone else and I’ll commend Pete Carroll and company for having the ability to look beyond that NFL mindset.

    I’ve said a number of times it sometimes seems like NFL front offices share one brain as they all seem to think the same, look for the same player, do things the same. I look at NFL organizations as a walking, talking, version of the BORG.

    It would be refreshing to see an orgainization actually look at what’s in front of them and not just go with the collective. I’m hoping our organization will be one that does have the guts to not buy into the general mindset.

  47. Dukeshire says:

    Yeah, I hear you. And your right on, this is a copy cat league, no question. And I too hope (and am believing , actually) that Carroll / Schneider do have the stones to be their own team, so to speak.

    I wonder if Forsett is aware he has a bit of a cult following among Seahawk fans?

  48. We need a name and t-shirts printed.

    Long live J-Force!!!

    Duke – you’re in charge of the fan website for your “Little Big Man.”

    We’ll start by perhaps a J-Force comic book series and with a little more popularity we can put it on public television and eventually Forsett is going to be so well known that he’ll be able to go national and eventually all people in China will know the power of the Force (no Star Wars pun intended).

    PR, baby, it’s all about PR.

  49. Dukeshire says:

    “We’ll start by perhaps a J-Force comic book series…” I’m not into comics but that’s a great idea. I envision a DC Comics kind of look, where he is wearing his Seahawks uni and where each team they play is a kind of criminal and he’s a crime fighter. Each play is the story (and his teammates are other crime fighters and Carroll could be major or some other leader of the good guys) and his carries and receptions and blocks are how he defeats the criminals. The Seahawks could hand them out to fans at Qwest for every home game. Pair up with Jones soda… Man, that would be cool.

  50. Dukeshire says:

    Not major, *mayor*…

  51. And if the Force could find himself playing in the Super Bowl and winning MVP honors… the sky is the limit…

    I envision him and his star persona taking over the galaxy. And instead of a measly President riding around earth in Air Force One, we’ll have Forsett riding around his colonies on other planets in his spacecraft (J-Force One).

  52. Dukeshire says:

    J-Force One…Oh man, lol. Awesome. Yes, he’ll defeat injustice and wrongdoers all across the galaxy.

  53. The possibilities are endless…

  54. Big plans you have there :D

  55. Ryan, some questions (or more klm drivel):

    Glad Hawks call their players “personnel” rather than “human resources”. If any people were a company’s “resources” it would probably be NFL players, espcially HBs. Don’t like being called a resource, and don’t think much of companies who calls their people resources, but it is a way of looking at the Hawks current HB situation.

    Hawks cut Forsett loose once, don’t see them doing it again. In fact, they’d probably like to keep him around as long as possible(?) How long is the average RBs career, 3-4 yrs? W.Dunn played 12 years. LT intends to play in his 10th season for the Jets, started when SA did. Edge played 11 yrs. How did they end up with such long careers? How many runs per game for them ended up like being inna car wreck, 2-3 or 7-8? Don’t HBs who fight for extra yards take more punishment than players who go down (or outta bounds) easy, and how much does that effect the longevity of their careers? So, is it better “resource management” for the coaches to ask that they do not take unneccesary hits? Or, with the DEN-style rushing offense with a ZBing OL, will the Hawks look at their RBs as just replaceable parts, and demand they be willing to ‘take one for the team’ every time they touch the ball, and never go down easy? Forsett doesn’t go down easy like SA did.

    What does the OL have to do with the length of a back’s career? Can we look at a halfback with a poor run-blocking OL and expect he’s gonna have poor stats and a shorter career because of them? Was it more SA’s foot, or losing Hutch (and Hannam and JoeJ) that ruined the Hawks rushing after ’05? Did losing Hutch have more to do with ending SA’s career than SA’s injuries? Does poor OL pass-pro effect the injury rate of HBs, when backs’re asked to block 280# DEs and 330# DTs when they get loose, or even blitzing 250# LBs? Wasn’t that the main reason JJ was kept in over JF?

    Speaking of JF, there’s another JF who’s also an ex-SC back, and also UFA. Justin Fargas. Cut by OAK cause they had D.McFadden and M.Bush. Same size as White (6-1/220) and 4.1 career avg/att. Last year Fargas had the about the same stats as JJ, has about the same ability to block, but is a little better at receiving. This would be Fargas’ 8th season. Football Outsiders rates J.Fargas higher than M.Lynch in DYAR, DVOA, etc. But JJ is ranked way higher than both of them. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/rb

  56. Justin Forsett is his name,
    Carrying the rock is his game.

    If the coaching staff is serious about playing the best players,
    He’d better be in the line-up (and why the h-ll has he twice been on waivers?).

    Some call him the “Little Big Man” and other call him “J-Force,”
    But if you want the best plan, he’s going to play, of course.

    He’s going to run inside, outside, and catch screens,
    He’s one of those late round draft picks you normally find only in your dreams.

    If you want a man who is gonna kick some “A,”
    Just let Justin Forsett play.

  57. Dukeshire says:

    Lol, very nice!

  58. Dukeshire says:

    In a timely piece by John Morgan over at Field Gulls,

    http://www.fieldgulls.com/2010/5/30/1494128/justin-forsett-and-winning-football#comments

    And from that article- “It’s staggering that anyone would rather Seattle start LenDale White than Justin Forsett. Size bias is among the stupider fixations of fans and front offices.”

  59. Jeesh Murphy, Dukeshire. Who the hell is Elaine Thompson?

    Having a HB/FB weighing in at _?_ (2007 White at 6-2 240 rushed 303 for 1110 yards 3.7 ave) isn‘t a bad thing. Okung is strong as a horse. Should the Hawks be able to run consistently behind him I’m not convinced that smaller is better. Carroll had already used White effectively at USC.
    http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/teams/stats?teamId=30&year=2005
    It is OC Bates offense that holds the questions. In Denver he ran 2 seasons with a FB and the last without. And even at that Forsett could have gotten the bulk of the carries, maybe a 3:2 ratio. But White would seem to have been a better fit for a single back backfield that I believe is what they’re using.

  60. Dukeshire says:

    “Jeesh Murphy, Dukeshire. Who the hell is Elaine Thompson?” – What does this mean?

    We are all entitled to out opinions, but I found it an interesting analysis. And I would argue that 3.7 per is in fact, not a good thing. And lastly; How do White’s college stats from ’05 have any relevance to the back he is today or to the back he has even been in the NFL?

  61. Word on the street today is that Justin Forsett has already saved a cat from a tall tree for an old man and helped four old ladies cross the street. He did all of this while running a marathon, which he is using as his “warm-up” excercise for the day; before he gets to the heavy lifting.

  62. The analysis was excellent but the by line was trivial.

    His stats were not of relevance. The fact that Carroll split the carries down the middle between Bush and White WAS. Had White been chosen the starter didn’t necessarly mean he would have been given the bulk of carries.

    3.7 is not good. Now factor in that he would have been the power back being used in short yardage. Break a run at the goal line and it ain’t going 99 or 15 yards, it will only go 1 or 2. We now need that type of back, maybe. Forsett has excellent vision and an oline that can create any push should be enough for him but if they cannot, see Minnesota.

  63. Dukeshire says:

    excile – Trivial or not, that has been my view since they acquired White.

    He wasn’t their short yardage / goal line back in ’06, the year from which you posted those numbers. That is why the 3.7, to me, is even worse. The next season, ’07 when he had 15 TDs and averaged 3.9 ypc, was when he was used more in that role. A role mine you, that should be ably filled by any capable FB. It is misuse of a roster spot to have a RB that is only relegated or capable of little more that short yardage, IMO.

  64. Dukeshire says:

    Did you know, Justin Forsett jumped off the Empire State Building this one time and he only sprained his ankle.

  65. fresfan says:

    Dukeshire – That was because he had his “light Fall Coat on”

  66. Duke – he actually sprained his foot on the Empire State Building (the fall was clean to the ground) as he was returning from the Moon.

    The reason he was on the Moon is because he misunderstood his media obligations where he thought his Warren Moon interview was to take place. Realizing he may be late (Justin Forsett is NEVER late), he simply jumped up to the Moon. And when he realized there must be a mistake (obviously, someone else’s fault), he simply jumped back to Earth. And since he is Justin Forsett, his ankle realized it better not stay sprained long, so the sprain only lasted seconds.

  67. LMFAO.. where did White play when he tallied 3.7 ypc? answer – Tennessee.
    You would consider Titan coach Jeff Fisher adequate. So what are your feelings on Eddie George?

    For the most part EG was a Titan with a carrier average 3.6 ypc. In the 2000 season EG had 403 carries for1509 yards at 3.7 ypc. George was a bruising 235 lbs at 6-3 and in 8 seasons the Titans had 1 losing season, 7-9. Their record with 3.7 ypc Eddie George was a staggering 80-48.

    Obviously Carroll felt LenDale White was not going to be an asset. Dumping him speaks volumes. However, for one to think that Carroll would have pursued White in the first place thinking he did not have the talent wouldn’t wash. IMO

  68. The Heisman Trophy balloting is stupid. Tommie Frazier was clearly the real Heisman winner in ’05 and he proved it in his bowl game (that was after he proved it during the season except Heisman voters are jerk-offs who go by other crap instead of the best player). Eddie George was workmanlike in his bowl game, but Frazier dominated a superior opponent. F – Eddie George.

  69. “1995”

    not

    “05”

  70. random rant for the day — has nothing to do with anything…

  71. - LOL

    “Down Goes Frazier!, Down Goes Frazier!” Howard Cosell 1973 as George knocks out Joe.
    http://www.entertonement.com/clips/wynftkwvht–howard-cosell

  72. Dukeshire says:

    excile – I never said nor implied Lendale wasn’t talented, he’s just not terribly skilled. And yes, I like Fisher very much, but what you are now attempting to do is compare a back (Lendale) who you would use in short yardage / goal line situations to a back (George) that averaged 358 carries a season. Not relevant on any level. A workhorse in every sense of the word vs a situational back. When Lendale averaged his 3.7 he had (only) 303 carries, the only time in his 4 year career he had over 200 caries. George had no less than 312 while in Tenn (7 seasons). Bates has no intention to feed the rock to any back one back that many times, (nor do the overwhelming majority of NFL teams).

    “Obviously Carroll felt LenDale White was not going to be an asset. Dumping him speaks volumes.” – This we agree on.

  73. I think it is very telling that the Hawks have not had a 1,000 yard rusher since 2005.

  74. I had no plans for LenDale White, ugh. It was Carroll who traded for him. The question would seemingly remain to be WHY?

    That statement under the picture you drug over yanked my chain a little is all. I’m a big fan of Justin Forsett. Always have been.

    So who is this mysterious FB you mention? I would figure Carroll had White in mind for the pump and grind, but he is excrement.

  75. Dukeshire says:

    excile – Perhaps I misunderstood, but by saying… “Now factor in that he would have been the power back being used in short yardage.”… implies that is how you envisioned him being used in this offense. And the mysterious FB is… “that should be ably filled by any capable FB.” Any capable FB. I would be somewhat surprised to learn that Schmitt is thoroughly incapable of converting short yard opportunities.

    That statement may be hyperbole, I acknowledge. But when I consider a feature back situation for this team, Lendale does not compare to what Forsett brings to the table, IMO. I imagine Carroll thought White would be a capable compliment to Forsett (or Washington when healthy) as he was to Bush at USC. And make no mistake; Bush was the feature back there. (And no, I’m not saying Forsett is Reggie Bush, simply a comparison in structure only.)

    In any case, it would appear we are closer to agreement than some of our back and forth would indicate.

  76. Knapp didn’t use FBs much last season. Griffith carried the ball 4 times for 6 yds, and Schmitt didn’t get any carries at all. I thought Schmitt was supposed to be the runaway beertruck. In ’08 Schmitt got 5 carries for 21 yds (4.2 yds/carry). What happened that he didn’t get any carries in ’09? Will Bates use him in short yardage?

  77. Dukeshire says:

    Knapp is notorious for not giving his FBs many carries. SF, Atlanta, Oakland and here; his track record is consistent. That was one significant reason Weaver was allowed to sign elsewhere. Griffith did however catch 19 passes (Schmitt just 6). I would expect the FB (presumably Schmitt) to get some short yardage work under Bates.

  78. “And make no mistake; Bush was the feature back there.”

    Yeah, don’t know how i could have been mistaken on that. You know… I mean.. at USC ’05 Bush had a whoopin 3, that is 3 more carries in a season than White. And as an ‘Aint in 2006 McAllister 244 carries Bush 155, 2007 featured Bush 157 big whoop car 581 yds 3.7 ypc was that 3.7, 2008 RB by committee, 2009 Bush had 70 carries.

    My thinking White was brought in to actually run some of the offense was just absurd. So sorry

  79. Dukeshire says:

    excile – Bush’s tenure as a Saint and how he is utilized there has no relevance to this conversation.

    The total number of carries is nearly irrelevant when discussing feature backs. What is meant by feature back is whom the ground game is built around. (I noticed you failed to mention the 23 more receptions Bush had out of the backfield than White in ’05) And if you watched any USC football (any at all) during the ’04 / ’05 seasons, you would have seen it was Bush.

    At this point it is clear you are simply being disagreeable for the sake of it. You’ve contradicted yourself by saying you are a big fan of Forsett (“always have been”), even though you feel Lendale would have been better in a single back offense that you think they are going to run, and in short yardage / goal line situations too. Not to mention how you have steered the conversation to Bush as a Saint and Eddie George. I’m no longer interested in debating with you , until you have a clear point of view.

  80. clearly it is not I you wish to debate. Using Forsett as a feature back, I was projecting that before last season. No, I would ass-ess that your proclamation should address the acquirer of White, that being the one and only Pete Carroll. Yes, either your on board or kapuuewwweiii; Carroll.

  81. Dukeshire says:

    What proclamation?

  82. he would not be a starter or feature back
    but of coarse Forsett would get the bulk of carries, 3rd long copo setic

  83. Dukeshire says:

    When / where did I say that?

  84. Mr Divish –
    Question: Heard that, as far as the CBA is concerned, this last draft was considered the end of the ’09 season. If that’s true and there’s a lockout thru all of ’11 (the season after this one), will the draft held in April 2012 be based on teams records of this upcoming season?

  85. copasetic?

  86. oceanic says:

    Other than a seventh rounder in 08, Seattle has not drafted a RB in the last six drafts.

  87. But we sure like drafting fullbacks!

  88. Why would you draft a running back when you already have Julius Jones? Come on, that dude is money!

  89. Word on the street is that Justin Forsett is getting sick and tired of hearing about the oil spill in the Gulf, so he’s going to take a quick break from training and go fix it himself. He’ll be back by dinner.

  90. IBGoofy says:

    So!!! The way things are at the moment, there is some good probability it will be J-Force & JJ to open the season, Washington joining the group after our bye week……..??

  91. Forsett should get most of the carries in September by default.

    Washington should be the man by Nov or Dec.

    Lynch would take over most of the 1st/2nd down carries if he gets signed, but he is an idiot, and I’m not so sure Coach Carroll wants another one of those.

  92. longco44 says:

    Seattle doesn’t need anymore running backs or wide receivers! They will shoot Forsett with the main load, then it will either be Jones or Washington sharing the remaining load…

    Sorry if that sounded disgusting..

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