Seahawks Insider

Report: Hawks get DE Henderson as part of Sims’ trade

Post by Eric Williams on April 5, 2010 at 11:42 am with 79 Comments »
April 5, 2010 11:48 am

According to Jason La Canfora of the NFL Network, the Seahawks received defensive end Robert Henderson and Detroit’s fifth round draft pick for Rob Sims and the team’s seventh rounder.

Seattle has two, seventh-round picks, one at 213 and a compensatory pick at 245. However, teams cannot trade compensatory picks, so Seattle is likely sending along its 213 overall pick.

At 6-foot-3, 278 pounds, Henderson was a sixth round draft pick by the New York Giants in the 2008 draft out of Southern Mississippi. Henderson suffered an ankle injury during the preseason of his rookie year and spent the rest of the season on injured reserve.

The Giants released Henderson in 2009, and he spent some time on Jacksonville’s practice squad before getting picked up by Detroit last year. Henderson has never played in a regular-season game.

With the latest move, Seattle still has nine picks in this year’s draft.

NFL free agency
Leave a comment Comments → 79
  1. Kinda like Wierdbeard, no reg season game exp.

  2. So are we trying to avoid picking a DE in the first few round? We have lost a few, but we have also picked up a few, but the ones we’ve picked up seems worse than the ones we have lost :/

  3. SnakeDoctor says:
  4. Dukeshire says:

    Training camp fodder is not to be confused with say, Derrick Morgan, as an example. I don;t think a guy like Henderson affects how they approach the draft other than one less 7th.

  5. mikew177 says:

    Is anyone keeping track of how many DE’s we have now?

  6. nighthawk2 says:

    A 7th for Henderson doesn’t seem unreasonable. Looks like he’s a replacement for Cory Redding, who did absolutely zero here and Numbskull traded Julian Peterson for him. Carroll and Schneider must figure he fits the scheme their installing, as a reserve. Fine by me.

  7. chuck_easton says:

    He’ll be fighting with Reed and Foley for that 4th and final DE spot. At least he’s the biggest DE Seattle has on their roster.

    Seattle now has 6 DE’s on the roster:

    Kerney (probably on his way out if he doesn’t re-structure)

    I wouldn’t be suprised to see Reed gone since Henderson and Foley are also “Elephant” type DE’s.

  8. Do you think we’re done stockpiling draft picks this year?

  9. I’d sure like to pick up a 3rd rounder or another second round pick.

  10. I’m just thinking, if we can get talent like Forsett and Nick Reed in the 7th, I would rather have a younger less injury prone guy, but again don’t know nothing about him so once again, I will have to give the organization the benefit of the doubt.

  11. Dukeshire says:

    Kerney, Jackson, and Henderson are all pretty much the same size. Reed, Clemons and Foley are the “little” guys.

    By the way, is anyone watching the Whit Sox / Cleveland game? Mark Buehrle made the most incredible play. Be sure to check SportsCenter tonight.

  12. Curry has also been mentioned in the elephant role.

  13. Sazqwatch says:

    I’m still waiting for the feel good free agent move. The latest PFT Mock Draft has the Hawks taking Boise State corner Kyle Wilson at #14? Another friggin 1st round corner? I’ll cut my wrists if this goes down. I’m not feeling it Hawk Nation.

  14. Curry has not only been mentioned as the Elephant, PC has said he is the Elephant. Look for that guy in the backfield often, at least PC is a coach who can figure out what to do with him. Hopefully he won’t tell him to “calm down” like the last coach.


    If the Hawks could stock pile more draft picks they would. Clayton was just on Brock and Salk and said they are acquiring picks to package up to send to Denver for Marshall. He also said that the Hawks are now the front runner (again) for Marshall, and look for him to be a Hawk, and the Hawks to maintain both first round picks. Clayton also said that trading the 6 pick probably won’t happen.

  15. Anything at all for Sims has to be good considering he wasn’t a good fit and could qite possibly have been cut anyway. If henderson makes the roster – or our 5th round pick does, we have to be better off this year.

  16. chuck_easton says:


    Jackson will almost definitely be one of the DE’s. Kerney is a question mark.

    That means Henderson, Foley, Clemons, Reed and a possible draft day pick are fighing for 2 or 3 available spots.

    At least there will be competition at camp. PC has said he wants competition.

  17. The NFL does keep the off-season interesting – Rams just cut Bulger:

    I guess that makes the chances of them taking Bradford at #1 just about 100%.

    I wonder if he’ll find a back-up gig somewhere – the times i’ve seen him the last few years, his play has been greatly diminished.

  18. Marshall? Clausen? Spiller? How bad does the O line have to get before it gets a total upgrade?

    Sometime this week Seattle will sign a FA guard who is 30 years old and coming off micro knee surgery or a 32 year old guard who weighs less than 290. Whoop de doo.

    Band aids on the O line and D line won’t get it done.

  19. vichawkfan says:

    this pretty much secures Berry as the 6th pick imo. Okung definately going 4th, if not already gone at 2. Buluga 4th or 5th… we take the 3rd tackle in the first 6 picks? Unlikely….so top rated D option left will be McCoy (hope and a prayer), but most likely Berry.

  20. Not so fast on Berry. I disagree because the fact is it’s easier to snag quality safeties later in the draft than it is quality left tackles and defensive linemen.

  21. The12thMan says:

    Right now here is my dream scenario for the first 5 rounds of the draft:

    #6 Eric Berry – Safety – I know you don’t like him SL2 but every scout and ‘draft expert’ out there raves about him and compares him to Ed Reed. It’s been much too long since we’ve had a real play making, game changing safety.

    #14 – Stay with me here. We trade #14 to New England for #22 and we take Charles Brown-LT. I think if we trade down further than #22 we risk missing Brown. In return we get New England’s later 2nd round pick #47 (Pats also have the #44) but we have to give the Pats our higher 4th round pick (#104) to make up the difference in points (Pats would be giving up 24 points overall in this deal which is reasonable I think).

    #47 (2nd round) – this pick either goes to the Broncos for Marshall or else we use it for the best WR available (I’d pray that Damian Williams was available).

    #60 (2nd round) – Montario Hardesty – RB – Big and fast, perfect fit for our system.

    #127 (4th round) – Larry Assante – SS

    With our 2 5th rounders and 1 6th rounder, Alex Gibbs takes over and does what he does best which is finding sleeper O linemen that fit his system.

    In this scenario we don’t get a DE or DT (we can’t fill every hole this year). I am hoping Nick Reed can bulk up eventually and be our every down DE. Keep in mind that Reed pretty much owned Russel Okung when they played each other. I am also hoping Colin Cole has a better year this year and/or that Red Bryant has a break out year. It would also be nice if we could pick up a CB with some size in the 5th or 6th round.

  22. yankinta says:

    No Way, We will still get McCoy. Detroit will take OT, and Redskins & Chiefs will not draft DT since they are overloaded at the position.

    If no one trades up, we will still get McCoy at 6th pick.

  23. I agree with Audible on his last statement. As far as O Line in the first, track down an Alex Gibbs interview on the web from any team he has been on, and when he talks about rookies, it makes a case for the Hawks to NOT draft an O Linemen in the first. Looks like it’s going to be Berry at 6, unless he’s gone, or McCoy is hanging around there. Seattle is still looking at bringing in some older, beaten down linemen that have worked with Gibbs before. More then likely they would act as mentors for the current O line mash-up they have now.

    Keep in mind that the coaching staff gets paid to watch tape for hours and hours. Way more then any of us do or even have access to. Maybe Gibbs sees something in some of these guys laying around that he can work with, or maybe not. Bottom line is if we let people like us, the fans, make personnel decisions, this team would not only suck, but the stadium would never be full because the ticket prices would be so high from the payroll that they would have to inherit.

    I trust that the Hawks are going to make the best decisions for the team period. We are talking about a young GM that spent a lot of time learning from one of the best GMs in the game hands down. Couple that with a coach that does know talent, and finally has a say in what he wants (in the NFL), and the Hawks should be fine. Not to mention that a 9 win season can win this division, things are on the up-and-up.

  24. chuck_easton says:


    McCoy and Suh will be gone at 2 and 3. Detroit will take Suh with their 2nd pick and TB will take McCoy with their 3rd. Detroit may throw a wrench into this by taking Okung at 2 but that just means McCoy and Suh go 3 and 5.

    The Redskins will likely draft a OT either Okung if he’s still there at 4 or Bulaga if Okung is gone. No way either Suh or McCoy fall to #6. But if either of them do you are right. That #6 pick will be increadibly easy. Take whichever is still there.

  25. Saying Redskins are overloaded at DT is not true at all, they have four DT’s two of them did not start a game at all last year, then they have Haynesworth who they apparently wanted to sent to Philly, and then Kendric Golston. They have two big needs DT and OT, so I do not think McCOy will drop, I hope he will, but don’t think any of the two studs at DT will slip to #6.

  26. 12th Man – I like your scenario, especially at RB. I’m sick of all this Spiller talk, if anything the Hawks need a bruiser at RB, Jones is not the answer. If what you wrote actually happened, the Hawks keep both first rounders, pick up Marshall, and get the bonecrusher ball carrier. Love that idea, e-mail it to Schneider.

  27. I’d still like to see Reed as a starter.

  28. 12th Man:

    Best scenario I’ve seen for the Hawks yet. I hope it goes down like that.

  29. chuck_easton says:


    Reed is a fan favorite, that we agree on. Problem is he isn’t anywhere near an every down player. IF he sticks on the team this year it will be in a similar role as last year. He’ll be a situational pass rusher and ST ace.

    I hate to burst your bubble but if Reed is the starter at DE then this team is in BIG trouble.

  30. jjsnix…. Sando sure didn’t give us much on Henderson did he??? If he didn’t, there probably isn’t much to give… I wouldn’t be surprised we just gave away another draft pick….

    also… klm008, I agree… not sure of the continued ‘Sims” bashing here… It’s very likely we will have a lot less talent there this coming season…. Detroit did well with this… At best, we’ll have a mistake prone rookie at LG….

  31. Just for clarification purposes:

    Did we trade Sims/#7 for Henderson/#5 or was it two separate trades where we got a #5 for Sims and then shopped a #7 for Henderson (or separate, but, wink-wink we’ll trade you this if you trade us that)?

  32. BobbyK, you our backup ‘competition’ guy at LG this coming season??? We just gave away another starter… rookies need competition, right???

  33. chuck_easton says:

    Sims was the starter at LG by default. He was average at best but he is too slow footed to be effective in a true ZBS that Gibbs is going to run.

    He wasn’t going to be a starter this season, even if he was kept on the team.

  34. We traded Sims for the 133rd pick, which is 5 spots lower than the pick we took him with originally. IMO that is a win considering the depth of this draft. The Henderson component of this trade is a head-scratcher to me though. Maybe they see him as an interior rusher in the nickle package???

  35. chuck_easton says:

    Once again the collective Seattle fanbase shows it can’t be satisfied. A couple of years ago Burleson was a loser and needed to be cut. That was until he signed with another team and then suddenly he was the most valuable WR since Largent.

    Seneca Wallace was getting booed for his poor play last season and now he’s the next coming of Steve Young and we shouldn’t have let him go.

    I could go back a few months and find numerous posts about how Grant was overpaid and overrated…that until he got cut and now it’s ‘what were they thinking letting our starting safety go?’

    I have even read on another Seattle Blog that people are starting to miss Ruskell and Mora over PC and Schneider.

    No matter what happens Seattle fans just like to complain. If they keep a guy he’s a bust and he should have been cut. If they cut him he’s suddenly the most important person on the team.

  36. We’re drafting 3-5 offensive linemen this year because Gibbs is going to want his starting OL in place so they can gel asap. Not to mention Gibbs is pushing 70 so he’ll likely be retiring soon. Carroll must have promised him some draft picks to get him over here, which he no doubt will gladly follow through on so we can get our starting o line in place before Gibbs leaves and hands them off to another coach.

  37. nidhighe says:

    If Detroit wanted Sims, good for them. He didn’t fit our new system, and honestly didn’t play that well in any previous system here.

    Giving up a 7th round pick for Henderson isn’t a big deal.


  38. nidhighe says:

    “No matter what happens Seattle fans just like to complain. If they keep a guy he’s a bust and he should have been cut. If they cut him he’s suddenly the most important person on the team.”

    Agree 100%. Schneider likes to go young and build through the draft instead of overpay free agents. Fans saying we should have kept Ruskell are just plain ignorant. The way Schneider builds a team might take a couple of seasons to really take effect, so hopefully the fanbase doesn’t implode before then.


  39. Chuck_easton & nidhighe:

    The fans that are getting skittish right now are clueless. This is how Schneider said he was going to go about building our team. This will not be a quick fix. It’s a process.

    Ruskell liked splashy moves that brought big headlines in the offseason. It should be obvious to our entire fanbase that his approach didn’t work.

    Carrol and Schneider are on the right track. They are going to bring in young hungry players who are fighting for a payday. IMO that should yield better results than overpaying other team’s cast offs.

    The result that they put on the field in the coming years will determine the success of these transactions not the opinions of pundits in April.

  40. I’m not sold on the idea that the Duke Boy likes to fully build through the draft. I think they were forced to use their resources wisely in Green Bay with respect to their spending habits. If you send me out to buy a car, I’ll probably end up with a used Chevy Impala. If you give me a credit card and tell me to spend what I want, I may end up with a BMW. He’s in a situation here where he has an owner who’ll spend what it takes to win. I know he won’t spend recklessly, but he has more of an option to spend more. Lets not forget that the Packers have signed a few guys to bigger contracts in recent history too (Pickett, Woodson, etc.). Frankly, I think Jesse’s nephew is more of a puppet to Mr. Happy than anything, but he did seem to have some input in the Whitehurst scenario though. Time will tell…

    Every pick is important. I don’t like the idea of trading someone who has proven in a few years that he isn’t very productive for a pick that could have turned into something else (if we indeed did want to trade a 7th rounder for a proven unproductive player). That’s why I was wondering if it was two separate trades or the Henderson/7 thing was part of the package.

  41. chuck_easton says:

    And BobbyK, to answer your question. The team just made a formal announcement that it was a package deal. Sims and our 7th to Detroit for Henderson and their 5th.

  42. “The fans that are getting skittish right now are clueless. This is how Schneider said he was going to go about building our team. This will not be a quick fix. It’s a process. ”

    that’s all fine – but there’s nothing wrong with having a reasoned opinion on the off-season moves – i’m with Carroll too, am glad he was brought in, as I’ve said – doesn’t mean i have to agree with every single thing his regime does.

    “Carrol and Schneider are on the right track. They are going to bring in young hungry players who are fighting for a payday. IMO that should yield better results than overpaying other team’s cast offs.”

    True enough – but shouldn’t 26 y.o. Rob Sims still fall into the young and hungry category?

    I don’t think i fall into the skittish category – I guess I’m just not used to this kind of turnover – I do understand that we don’t have a whole lot to build on coming off 9 wins in two years.

    Ultimately – i’m a little divided. Part of me knows that we almost certainly have to suffer through at least 1 if not 2 real bummer years, in order for Carroll to accomplish what he needs to in revamping this roster. Then, the other part of me is thinking, if we can just give Hasselbeck better protection and some decent targets, then b/c we happen to play in the worst division in the league, we could actually have a shot at winning it at 9-7 (maybe even 8-8). I’m willing to live with either scenario I suppose, as long as it feels like progress is being made.

  43. chuck – I’m torn too. On one hand, we truly suck. That last month was especially brutal. But the other part thinks that an improved OL and a BM will make our O legit again, which means our D will be able to attack more, which puts that unit in a better position to succeed too. Nevermind improved coaching. It all starts with the play of our OL though.

    I think we’re going to learn a lot on draft day about how we are going to approach ’10.

    The Henderson/7 thing makes me feel better b/c I don’t know how anyone could like trading a pick for an proven bad player but I understand it was necessary to actually get the 2nd pick in the 5th round.

    Has anyone heard anything about Pitts? I’m still wondering about Justin Smiley too?

  44. oops… wrong person/response…

  45. Chuck was up with the same yammer when now pro bowl FB/RB Weaver wasn’t signed.
    The return on Sims was right.
    BobbyK, can’t believe you don’t have some Haynseworth scenario up.

  46. DisplacedSeahawkFan says:

    I just don’t get it.

  47. chuck_easton says:


    Weaver was a bad move by Ruskell. But now Weaver got exactly what he wanted. He’s the highest paid FB in the NFL. That wasn’t going to happen here. Glad for him. He would not have had the same season in Seattle that he did in Philly.

    If Sims goes to Detroit and suddenly becomes a pro bowler I’ll formally acknowledge it.

    Look at Hamlin. He went to Dallas had his ONE good season (pro-bowl), got his big payday, and now after two years of sub-par play at way overpaid prices he’s cut.

    Let’s see Weaver do it again this year. He has it in him but he has to prove he can do it once he’s paid.

    I don’t see Sims ever making a pro-bowl.

  48. The12thMan says:

    jjsnix and rollo73, thanks for your feedback on my little draft scenario. I had another thought after I posted it that I thought I’d share.

    There have been some rumors that the Pats might be interested in getting Branch back. If it’s true we could throw him and maybe our 6th round pick into the deal so that we could keep our #104 pick in the 4th round. So then here’s the altered trade:
    We get #22 pick in the first round and #47 pick in the 2nd round.
    Pats get #14 pick in the first round, Deon Branch, and our 6th round pick
    I think it makes some sense since the Pats have two 2nd rounders and maybe they want to trade up to get a CJ Spiller or something (I’m not that familiar with their needs).

    Then, since in this scenario we’d be getting a good RB in the 2nd round that could split time with Forsett right away, we could trade Julius and get a 6th rounder to replace the one we gave up.

    If we kept #104 I’d like to get Myron Rolle – SS and then with pick #127 take a CB that is raw and needs development but who has size and speed like an A.J. Jefferson or someone like that.

    Here’s the altered draft with this scenario:
    #6 – Eric Berry – FS
    #22 – Charles Brown – LT
    #47 – Brandon Marshall or Damian Williams WR
    #60 – Montario Hardesty – RB
    #104 – Myron Rolle – SS
    #127 – A.J. Jefferson – CB

    2 picks in 5th and 1 in 6th are for Gibbs to find his linemen with guys like Zane Beadles, Selvish Capers, and Jeff Byers most likely being available.

  49. okay I am beginning to question the moves this front office makes. They may turn out but bear with me for a while.

    1. They trade for Whitehurst who had signed a 3rd round tender. (which we didn’t have) and then end up trading our 2nd round pick (which has 1st round value due to the depth of the draft)

    So based on Tender – we WAY overpaid

    2. We sign Sims for a 4th round tender and trade him for a 5th round pick and a worthless guy – or and give up a pick too.

    Based on Tender – we were WAY underpaid

    that means we are 2 for 2 on getting taken advantage of in trades. Now I am willing to wait and see, but if we are going to build through the draft like we say we are. There is NO WAY we should be trading away the 40th pick with the draft as deep as it is, or giving away picks when we are already taking below market value from the other team.

    I just don’t get it! These guys better contribute! or this FO is really, REALLY off to a bad start!

  50. chuck_easton says:

    We didn’t trade away our 2nd round pick. We swapped picks. If the draft is as deep as everyone says the 60th pick (in the 2nd round) should be able to land somebody of value. Yes moving down 20 picks in the 2nd round is a gamble, but I don’t think it was overpaying.

  51. A.Gibbs zone blocking system is different from what Hawks have played (it’ll take some of us fans awhile to get used to it.) Except for last seasons OL stab at ZBing, coached by a very good KC man-blocking coach – now SF’s OL coach, fans are used to our team giving most attention to tackles (especially LT), then centers/guards. That’s not Gibb’s MO.

    Gibbs is most particular about his centers, then guards, then tackles. Gibbs guards and centers aren’t very tall (6-0 to 6-5). Since ’95, Cs drafted by Gibbs teams averaged 302 lbs, taken in the 3rd/5th & 7th rds – Tobeck woulda been a perfect center for him if he didn’t already have Nalen. Inexperienced/less intelligent players have a hard time starting at interior OL positions for Gibbs. Gibbs wants them 1st smart, 2nd mean, and 3rd at least average athleticism. Guards drafted by Gibbs teams avg 289 lbs, were taken in the 2nd/3rd/4th/6th & 7th rds. B.Hamilton is Gibb’s model for an OG (“a pumped-up 250 lber”.)

    Tackles drafted by Gibbs teams avg 313 lbs, were taken in the 1st/4th/5th & 7th rds, 6-4 to 6-8 ht. Why so heavy at OT? The highest a tackle was ever taken on a Gibbs team was 338 lb G.Foster, taken 20th in ’03 (who didn’t really fit Gibb’s mold). I’m guessing Mr Bowlen maybe got into the argument there, but that brought the average tackle weight up. OT Brandon Frye 6-4/302, was drafted 5th rd by Gibbs HOU team in ’07.

    Draft Since ’95:
    Gibbs teams have had 12 draft picks before #20, and never once used one on OL.
    Gibbs teams used 3 of 43 picks before #60 on OTs (no other OLers either). One of those OTs was G.Foster.
    Btw #60 & #77 Gibbs teams used 5 of 11 draft picks on OGs and Cs (none on OTs).

    Why couldn’t a team buy a pub and hire ex-OL guys to operate it. During off-season and after hours players are restricted to that pub (as opposed to other clubs/taverns, etc.) If a player ever has too much to drink the ex-OL guys rwest the keys away and drive the player home. If the player starts getting into trouble (fist fights, etc.) pub staff breaks it up. Plus, if the pub staff are great ex-ZBing OL guys, they can tip off the current OL players all after hours about what to do in different situations. Walt’s Place.

  52. The12thMan says:

    Klm, interesting and informative post but I’m not totally sure what your point is. Are you saying that you don’t see the Hawks selecting a LT in this draft until the 4th or 5th round?

  53. BrianBlades says:

    “probowl” player is just that. someone who played in the “probowl”. I don’t remember Weaver lighting anything up other than message boards. If he could run his legs like he does his mouth, we should have kept him.

    If you are just on the shoulda-woulda-coulda routine…well, then, you are in good company here.

    But whining about Weaver? Bush-league.

  54. xcman…. Apparently jjsnix infers “I’m Clueless”… so, it would not be good for me to comment that we traded a starting NFL Left Guard, (Holmgren supported) and arguably our best lineman in 2009, for a player that has never played in an NFL game and will very likely not make our team, getting a 5th rd draft choice while giving away a 7th so that we can draft a rookie, prone to rookie mistakes and unproven to shore up our offensive line for the 2010 season… Silly me dealing with facts….

  55. By the way, xcman, “I don’t get it either….”

  56. Dukeshire says:

    kim008 – Here are two links that articulate the information you touched on (and likely where you originally got it). Hope this helps –

  57. IBGoofy:

    Being the best offensive lineman on what was arguable the worst offensive line in the NFL is hardly an accomplishment. When I say some of you are clueless it’s because…Well, you are. Would you rather we stuck with an O-lineman who’s skill set didn’t fit the system we were trying to run? Didn’t we just go through a year of trying to fit square pegs into round holes? Or have we forgotten about that already?

    Carrol and Schneider have a plan. They are committed to the type of system they want to run. They understand the type of players they need to run it much more than you or I ever will.

    It’s April. We haven’t even had our first mini-camp yet. Calm down people. Can we wait to see what the final product looks like before we start doing our Chicken Little impressions.

  58. I agree with jjsnix, people on here are going crazy on what has or has not been going on with the Seahawks. This team is not a superbowl team no matter what people believe. Carrol and Schneider are doing what they think is best for the team. Would you rather have another year of Mora and his clowns? I didn’t think so, lets see what plays out and see if the team is improving throughout the year. Rome was not built in a day people…

  59. No, there are many people on here that really no nothing about football, but they’ll point out how I made an error in that I said the Hawks had 10 wins in two years, when we only had 9.

    I’m way too lazy to worry about the W/L record of a team that has been so horrid the last two years. I want all of the skeptics to pull up all of the free agency and drafts of Ruskell and Holmgren. You will see a glaring amount of swings and misses, overpaying, and running good players out of town.

    I’m truly sorry to those that are upset that we’re not trying to put square pegs into round holes on this 9 win over 2 year team. I mean imagine what we could do with all of that talent? Please.

    The new regime is getting rid of dead weight and salary and is going with the draft. I’ll tell you what, we’re going to have one hell of a special teams. The beauty of everything is that as quickly as some of these guys came, they can go; there are no financial ties….Make sense?

  60. chuck, Weaver averaged over 4 yards a carry every year in Seattle. I’ve watched the dude run as well as you yammer and eye say he had a better per carry than tiny Forsett. Pull your head out.
    Hamlin made a pro bowl with Dallas because he was with the boys, granted. Now compare him up against that worthless Deon Grant. Who was better. Oh yeah, Grant supposedly had one good year BUT Hamlin went to the pro bowl. How bout Russel and Boulware. Who took the Hawks to the playoffs every year? The talent of this team was lost when TR got here. Your original post catagorizes you as a Jack azz.

  61. Duke –
    Thanks for those links – they’re great stuff and no, didn’t get the info from there but from another source on Gibbs, sorry I can’t put my finger on the site right now, I’ll try to find it though. . . but thanks for those links – better stuff than mine.

    One of the perceptions of Holmgren is his ability to take a late round QB and turn him into a ProBowler. Kinda the same with A.Gibbs, except that it’s OLers. He’s perceived as taking a group of average OLers, teaching them to ZB, and voila – probowlers. That perception’s not quite true. But he has had a good eye for players with the skills needed to make his zone blocking system work. Gibbs is behind the “Denver one-cut” zone-blocking scheme that Bates said Hawks are gonna play this season.

    Two expected benefits: 1. take ‘average’ OLers later in the draft, use Gibbs system and still get high performance, and 2. RBs benefit from Gibbs system so that ‘average’ RBs can benefit from the scheme and yield high yds/carry. Somehow Gibbs gets his OL that’s based around ‘undersized’ zone run-blockers to end up with excellent pass-pro performance as well as run-blocking. Hawks don’t need to take high pick OL guys and can wait till later to get an RB. It’s confusing. I get how smaller guys can zone run-block an area, overload the defenders and free up a blocker to get to the 2nd level, but smaller OL guys outperforming behemouth OL guys at pass-pro?

    Looking at A.Gibbs last job – the LT drafted by HOU in ’08 – his 1st yr there. Virginia Tech’s Duane Brown 6-4/315, ’08 draft, rd 1 pick #26. In ’08 he started all 16 reg season games, but only took 859 snaps. He was spelled for an average of about 25% of the offenses plays in every game by 6-6/295 Ephraim Salaam. Still, Brown allowed 11 sacks, 14 hits, 25 pressures, and was flagged for 6 penalties. Last season, Brown took all 1055 snaps, allowed 7 sacks, 11 hits, 35 pressures, was flagged for 8 penalties. Brown only had one year at LT in college, and was a TE as a freshman. Did Gibbs pick LT Brown for his athletic ZBing ability, or for his ability to protect the QB’s blindside? I’d think the more important requirement is pass-pro for a LT, but maybe that’s just what you get with the #7 ranked LT vs the #1 ranked LT?

    Most mocks still have Hawks taking a LT @ 6. When I think LT I think W.Jones (a #6 pick). Gibbs doesn’t seem to think that way, and I also wonder if PC & JS aren’t counting on him to find that LT (and whoever else he wants for the OL) much later in the draft. Also wondering if Gibbs might be looking at B.Frye @ LT if healthy? Know everybody’s been wondering the same things earlier on this blog – I’m just catching up, but have questions about what’s gonna happen on the OL, and with the RBs. Does anybody remember what happened to most of DEN’s RBs? Most of them, like Terrell Davis, Mike Anderson, Olandis Gary, Reuben Droughns Quentin Griffin, and Tatum Bell had career-shortening/ending injuries playing in that Denver System.

  62. Most teams who pick players late in the draft pretty much fall into those players and have to get a bit lucky (or if it were known they were going to be good other teams would have already taken them). With the state of our OL right now we cannot afford to draft a bunch of clowns in the late rounds and hope they can gel into something respectable. One of those top three picks must be used on OL and preferably it’s a LT prospect. And with Alex Gibbs’ track record of OL play in ’09 with the Houston Texans even he proved that you actually need talent to work with too.

  63. Dukeshire says:

    Unless something changes between now and the draft, I agree they will select a LT with one of the top 3 and I would hope at #6. The cupboard is bare at LT and it’s impossible for me to believe they are willing to start anything but a 1st round rookie there.

    One thing I want to point out is that there is a difference between talent and skill. Gibbs would appear to believe that the ability to learn the skills to be solid in his system is more important than inherent talent. That doesn’t mean he takes scrubs off the street and and turns them into hall of famers. Great players, for his system, can and have been found in the middle rounds but he has very specific traits he looks for.

  64. chuck_easton says:


    We get it. You LOVE Weaver. He went to a pro-bowl. The team should have given him everything he asked for even though they didn’t use a FB last season the way Weaver wanted to be played. He took less money to go to Philly and proved he was worth it. He now is the highest paid FB in the NFL. Mission accomplished for Weaver.

    What does that have to do with the fact that you and many others only come on here to whine and complain about anything/everything the FO does or doesn’t do that you think they should do.

    Here’s a suggestion. Send your resume to VMAC. When YOU are making the decisions I’ll back you fully. Until then you are just complaining about things and whining that nobody listens to your insightful understanding of how a football team should be run.

  65. Klm-

    Great post, I love how some people still miss the point. That point is: don’t look for the Hawks to go O-line until the fourth. I bet they use all the picks in the 4th and 5th on O Line, and the first three on D.

    Granted the Hawks desperately need help on the O Line, but a huge defensive overhaul has been absolutely necessary for years now! With the exception of a few players, defense was not Holmgren’s MO. He just built one that was good enough to a little better then average. Make no mistake about it, PC is a defensive guy all the way. And remember one thing:


    Look for either Eric Berry or McCoy (if he slips) at 6, and another word to the wise (or unwise) – quit reading mock drafts people.

  66. The Saints offense had more to do with their Super Bowl win than their defense. Sure, Porter had the pick to seal the game, but the last I looked, you need to score points too. The only time I’ve ever seen a defense win a championship was the Ravens. Even the ’85 Bears had offensive Pro Bowlers.

  67. BobbyK-

    When the Ravens offense scored 10 points that season they were 14-0. Their starting QB was Trent Dilfer, enough said there. Yes, I agree that the Saints offense had a lot to do with that win, however, when the game was on the line, and Manning had the ball, what happened? The DEFENSE came up with a pick 6 that sealed the win. Without that TD and the time that Manning had, would they have won that game? Remains to be seen.

    As far as the 85 Bears, New England dropped a ton of passes in that game because they were scared of the coverage. The ball was well thrown to their receivers, they just looked off at the last second thus dropping passes. Walter Payton, their all-world RB didn’t even score a TD. Go back and watch that game.

    Granted you still need to score, however and more importantly, you need to keep the other team from scoring. Otherwise, it’s all for nothing.

    I wasn’t the person who said defense wins championships origionally, that’s an age old saying good for any sport.

    I’m just basing my opinion on what I have been reading from ALex Gibbs, and what PC has done in the past. PC was a defensive coordinator long before a head coach, and how good was USC’s defenses? Pretty good. If you have a defensive minded head coach, then look for them to stock the defense. Sounds like PC and Schneider are going to turn the O Line personnel responsibilities over to Gibbs, if he likes a guy in the first, maybe they take them. Traditionally speaking, he doesn’t draft many linemen in the first round. Best guess, he looks for the highest wonderlic scores for guys in his size requirements. If those guys are in the 4th and 5th rounds, that’s where they will be taken. Look for the defense to get shored up first, and if the Hawks develop a top 10 defense who’s going to complain? Everybody on here will, except for me, I would love to see a return to the Chuck Knox power D days.

    Make no mistake about it people, the Hawks are not 2 or 3 players away from a Super Bowl run. Especially now that McNabb has been traded to Washington, the NFC East is going to be a powerhouse. Remember last season, Washington’s D was really good, they just couldn’t score. We (the Hawks) need a hell of a lot more than a LT to make it to the Super Bowl.

  68. Dukeshire says:

    No one will complain if the ‘Hawks have a top 10 defense and I don’t believe anyone here is of the opinion they are “2 or 3 players away from a Super Bowl run”. Pete Carroll does indeed come from a defensive background but he understands the importance of offense. There is a great piece on Carroll and his offensive ideas at Trojan Football Analysis and I will post the link as soon as the site comes back up after maintenance. In addition, the first move of significance he has made here has been to bring a QB in. The defense is definitely closer that the offense, no doubt. And his tutelage of Bradley and the switch to eh “under” will make a dramatic impact, IMO. But stating simply that “defense wins championships” does nothing to explain the symbiotic relationship the D on O share. In other words, they will not be “fixing” one side of the ball to the detriment of the other. Both will be given and warrant equal attention, thankfully.

  69. Sazqwatch says:

    I’ll be so glad when Apr 22nd gets here and all of us arm chair GM’s can stop guessing about who SHOULD be picked and start whining about who WAS picked.

  70. Duke,

    Do you have an equation that shows the symbiotic relationship between offensive and defense?! :-) LOL

  71. Sazqwatch says:

    D^2 + O = SB XLVI

  72. chuck_easton says:

    April 22nd seems like a world away.

    Nothing is or isn’t going to happen regarding a potential Marshall trade until after the first evening of the draft. At that point Denver will either have conned some team into giving them a 1st rounder for BM or they will have to make a decision to accept less or keep him for another year.

    I agree that many of the moves to date are head scratchers but I’m holding out hope that all will be revealed by the end of the day on the 24th. If nothing changes or the FO pulls some obvious SNAFU’s we can all have a great time burning them in virtual effegy.

  73. Sazqwatch, my furry friend…that’s brilliant!

  74. Like I mentioned “defense wins championships” was not said by me origionally. Also, Dukeshire, there are a lot of people who post on here everytime the Hawks pick up a player for depth or special teams, and freak out like it’s the end of the world, and yes, there is posters on here that generally believe the Hawks are a LT away from dominance. The Hawks have been in need of a better then they have defense for years now. Granted Holmgren did select and bring in some defensive players, but his focus was on offense. Plus, getting rid of Seneca Wallace sure meant that they needed to pick up a QB, can’t have two on the roster. By the way, they traded Wallace before they brought in Whitehurst, wasn’t the other way around. I’m not saying that they are even going to undermine the offense. I am saying IMO, that they may go for D first and get their offensive guys in later rounds. IMO.

  75. Dukeshire says:

    Sazqwatch – Something like that.

  76. Sazqwatch says:

    Hey chuck_easton; is “BM” short for bowel movement? Sorry, I kid because I care. ; ) Chuck, like you, I am looking forward to April 22nd as much as I am the final episode of Lost. Because “…all questions will be answered!”

  77. Dukeshire says:

    rollo73 – That’s fine. While we differ in opinion on how they will approach the rebuild we do agree the all the hand wringing here is a bit over the top. Giving a 3rd, moving down 20 spots in the 2nd this year and giving $8 mil to CW indicates that they brought him with an eye to a future after Matt, not a replacement for Seneca. In any case, we’ll all have our answer in 2 weeks.

  78. Yeah Duke I agree it’s a little strange. I’m not convinced that Whitehurst is going to be the future unless he just plain goes off. Given his contract structure he may be just a bridge to gap between Hass and the next QB, which IMO will probably be drafted next year (unless Mike Teel is the guy). They did give him a lot of money for that bridge, but who really knows their motivation, plus they have wads of cash. I do have this opinion though, and don’t know what others think, but here it is: when Matt struggles for the first time, Whitehurst will be in the game. Or if he goes down with an injury, look for Matt to get the ol’ Bledsoe.

    It will be very interesting to see what happens in two weeks Duke, but needless to say, I’m happy with whatever they do. I will never stop rooting for the Hawks.

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