Seahawks 32, Lions 20-- reader reaction thread
Posted By Ryan Divish on November 8, 2009 at 4:21 pm
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Photo by Joe Barrentine
It was an awful start -- I believe the word we decided on was "sucktastic" -- but the Hawks found a way to pull out a win against a bad Lions team.
Matt Hasselbeck was solid throwing for over 300 yards. T.J. Houshmandzadeh made some catches and didn't have a fit on the sidelines, Julius Jones scored a touchdown (it's true), and the defense forced some turnovers led by David Hawthorne.
Go ahead and sound off. Rant, analyze, theorize, hand out game balls ... have at it
Joe Barrentine/The News Tribune
Joe Barrentine/The News Tribune
After the Stockton - Mare game, whose got the energy for anything? But, that game was a lot harder than it needed to be. Hawthorne continues to impress and Knapp's play calling is still awful. I'm sure more later...
How big was Jason Hansen hitting the upright on their first FG attempt? If he makes that, they're only play to get into FG range at the end of the game, the score would have been 25-23 Seattle at that point.
So can they keep it within 20 next week? That's my goal for road games.
This team was just missing 2 of the year's projected starters today (Locklear and Tatupu) and they were terrible.
So is this team just plain bad or is there another excuse we can use?
I know that we almost have a good offense.
QB - check. Very good.
RB - check. While I would love to add a Spiller/Best, I realize you can't have everything and JJ/Forsett is okay.
FB - check. While you may not like Griffith (especially after the 1st quarter fumble), he's still a solid FB.
WR - check. Good.
TE - check. Good.
That means one unit must be pretty bad. And they are. Still, a win is a win and I'm glad we won. It would not have been fun to lose to the Lions at home. The push our OL got on the 4th and 1 play in the 1st quarter symbolizes their ineptitude, although the pass protection was much better. Of course, this was the Lions.
As far as running back, I'd be very happy to get Montarrio Hardesty with our 4th round pick. WR? I got sick of Houshmancrybaby last week. Offensive line sucks big time. So does the defense, for the most part.
There are holes, no question. But there is no question there are some very talented players here to build around, moving forward. We can all argue whether the leadership is in place to guide this team, but there are some young, great players on this roster, now.
Frankly unless the O-line pulls off a miracle and starts playing well we can start thinking about a 5 and 11 season...maybe. So pray Denver looses a bunch so we can get two 1st round picks in the top 15 and pray we pick a left tackle and a right guard. Move Locklear back to RT, move Unger to center, and put the two new rookies out that and pray next year they all stay healthy.
Of course I'm sure many or you will say go for a QB but unless we can get a REALLY good o-lineman via free agency we need to go young for a couple years. And for cripes sake get us a safety that can cover AND hit.
And no one has an issue with a QB that can only throw short passes over the middle all game because of well below average arm strength? Or is it that the WRs get no separation? I can buy that one, I just can't tell because the cameras don't show us that.
IMO, it's time to give up on Julius Jones. By comparison Shaun Alexander looked better in the twilight of his career & that's pathetic.
Go with Forsett, Rankin or some loser on the waiver wire, but get rid of Jones.
points:
Down 17-0 in the 1st, I thought: "Why are the Seattle Seahawks sooo damn unlucky? Where are THEIR breaks? The ball hasn't seemed to bounce their way since 2005. This sucks!" but.....Today ....they did NOT give up!
After the horrendous 1st quarter.....the D only gave up 3 points the rest of the way. (thank you Mr Stafford)
Knapp actually allowed the O to start playing to it's strength and let the passing game be featured and Hasselbeck to make the reads.
The Seahawks needed a game like this (a come from behind win) to grow as a team and gain some momentum.
Speaking of momentum .....a win next week will go a LONG way in that department. (hit Warner.....a lot....PLEASE)
Go Seahawks ...continue to become better.
I will argue that the primary issue with D are the plays that called, the scheme. I don't think they are being put into the best positions to play well.
That 4th and 1 symbolized not only the inept play up front, as Bobby points out, but as importantly, Knapp's thoroughly unimaginative playcalling. That was an obvious play action spot, to. But if he still wanted to make a point by using nothing but muscle, why go off guard? Why not run it right at them? That one play symbolized nearly everything I have issue with this team.
John Morgan of Fieldgulls sums it up best regarding Hasselbeck and the offense:
"It took 51 attempts to get 329 yards. 17 passes were to his backs or fullbacks. Hasselbeck played like the aging game manager I think he now is. Seattle won around him, but mostly because of Stafford's five interceptions (worth 225 or 350 yards depending on your interpretation). It didn't win because of him. Hasselbeck dinked and dunked against the 30th ranked pass defense. He stared at his wide receivers like there wasn't a throw he could make. Hasselbeck checked down like he was facing a gifted young secondary. He was facing Kevin Hobbs."
http://www.fieldgulls.com/2009/11/8/1122009/seattle-seahawks-agonizing-in
Surprisingly, Arizona is 1-3 at home. Hopefully the hawks can go there and steal one.
Did Lock get any snaps this week?
In my opinion the coaching staff seems to be finding their way, the same as the players....the book has yet to be written about how good of a head coach or staff they actually are. They are facing adversity in many forms, and the calls seem to be wrong a good percentage of the time, but the book needs to have time to be written, also.
The first down that Hasselbeck got when he drew the D lineman offsides with the quick snap count on 4th down was great.
If you were a QB and you were used to getting hit... you'd probably dink and dunk more often than most (whether you were 23 years old or 35 years old). The OL hasn't gained his confidence and for good reason. And why would we want to draft a QB in the 1st round with the garbage we have on our OL? Great. Draft a QB and let him get killed. Smart way to ruin a player or, in our case, make sure an aging vet gets killed early.
Pabuwal ... if that sums it up best then you claim that our QB is more of a problem than our O-Line?
If the O-Line is better ..... then : Hasselbeck has the protection he deserves and can complete longer passes as they have time to develop. (his only shots downfield seem to be quick lobs) He is no doubt still playing with soreness and does not want to take a hard shot ....therefore he dinks and dunks ....
If the O-Line is better ..... then : We would have a running game ... which good teams have, and that also benefits the QB and the passing game.
Mathew H is not the problem with this team!
Was the Offensive Line a problem in pass protection today? The Lions are an awful team and an especially bad defense. Look up their starters in the secondary. Their starters wouldn't even make most other teams. Today's starting Offensive Line is serviceable. It's not great but it's not awful and it's not going to make below average RBs like Jones even look average.
The Lions have lost 29 of their last 31 games and 30 of their last 34 road games coming into today. They lost today because they played a rookie QB who has a long way to go, not because the Seahawks considerably outplayed them. The rookie QB threw 4 INTs and still had a chance to pull the game out with 2 minutes left - in Qwest Field no less.
Agree to disagree.
Yes.
I think it's a little bit on the churlish side to complain about Hasselbeck's play. It looked like Detroit was playing soft coverages, so Hasselbeck took what was there. If Stafford had done the same, Detroit might have won, so let's not take Hasselbeck's performance for granted, as though any QB could have done that. Especially when you consider the state of his O-line.
I don't think Seattle has the vertical weapons to go over the top anyway on a semi-consistent basis. Someone who can analyze game film would have to corroborate, but I don't think Seattle had targets open deep and missed or ignored them. It sounds good to say "we'll take what we want" but the reality is, unless you have the weapons to do so, you're better off taking what is there.
Strangely, I think the only way Seattle's going to get a deep passing game again is to get the running game going well. Unless opposing defenses have to pull men closer to the line to stop a vigorous running game, they're going to keep people back in the deep quarters to prevent deep passes. It would take an exceptional deep threat or playmaker to hit a big play against that type of defense (or great protection and/or a blown coverage.)
In any event, I'm glad they won and hopeful they can win in Arizona and turn things back towards the playoffs.
I guess Favre is magically getting better after the age of 40?
He's not getting better, the talent around him has improved. It's obvious.
Prior to his final year in Green Bay, people were saying he's washed up and the reason for this is because the talent on offense was pretty bad. The talent level improved and some players came into their own with a little experience (like Jennings). He didn't become better. The players around him did. And, therefore, there was an increase in production. It's not too hard to figure out. Then again, it's obvious it is that tough to figure out for some people.
Last year, Favre started out pretty well (until the injury). Why did he start out so well even when the Jets lacked a deep threat? It's called a LT and C who were in their 2nd year and who were #1 picks (i.e. talented/good, not like Spencer who is talented/bad). Ferguson was the 4th player taken overall and he's very good. The injury thing though... is hard on anyone... but maybe he was old and washed up?
Why is Favre doing so well this year? It's called Bryant McKinnie, Steve Hutchinson, Adrian Peterson, Percy Harvin, etc.
You put Favre on some team like ours with a pathetic OL and he'll suck and the seagulls people can talk all they want about how he's an old "has been" who can only dink and dunk because he's so used to getting the sh!t kicked out of him that he's checking down quicker than usual.
Instead, he's on a team that keeps winning and who have a legit shot at the Super Bowl. Hmmm. Imagine that. Get good players around you and you automatically play better even though you're at an age where you are supposedly getting worse.
And the Jets FA signing of Faneca was HUGE for Favre prior to last season.
freedom - I like the analysis.
with the play of hawthorne (he is a plamaker and we need all the playmakers we can get) and curry i'd say trade either hill or tatupu who in my own opinion are 2 of the most overated highley paid and always injury prone LB's out there, dump a contract and try to get either a 2-3rd round pick to help rebuild our offense next year,with the first 4 picks we take not sure what order a QB LT RB OL and the rest of the pics all OL lol, done right with the right picks we could rebuild our offense in 1 draft, is this something you want ruskell to do
look what baltimore did drafting flacco, ray rice, and michael other wow, we could do the same next year i just sure hope we have the right guy in the front office to make those picks
I'm sorry to say this, but nobody is going to want Hill and his contract. He's not an elite LB, yet he's paid like one. Don't get me wrong, he's a fine player. Teams don't normally get high picks for overpaid players.
Duke.... I can't agree more.... We have quite a bit of talent.... Failing to use that talent to its' best abilities is becoming seriously redundant.... not good....
Game Ball to YOU Ryan!!!
Great job with the chat....
BobbyK.... Hopefully you're not giving up on Hill.... certainly right now.... lots of factors are a part of how he's playing now... injuries, schemes, playcalling... not within his control.... I share your concern, but his track record is pretty good as a Hawk....
If we can't get a 1st or 2nd for Tatupu, the team could always consider a 3-4 defense in an attempt to field their best players.
Yeah! The Hawks won! We're back in it, baby! Play-offs! Superbowl! It's all right there for us!
Give me a break. There is ZERO good to take from this game. You can't measure anything against, literally, one of the WORST teams in the history of the NFL.
Show me something next week with a road win in AZ and then we can talk about what's possible. (The bad news? There is absolutely NO way we win.)
I am as convinced as ever this team needs to be rebuilt from the inside out and the top to the bottom. Bring in Holmy and let the rebuilding commence!
"but get rid of Jones. "
Dude balled his ass off today. He had a run in the second half in which he broke three sets of ankles.
The OL sucks, put Julius behind Alexander's lines and he breaks off 2k.
Hill's a beast.
Our defense underperformed again today. I agree with those saying that it's our scheme. I've been saying it all season so far. Until Gus figures out how to rush the passer consistantly we're gonna have big problems with good teams. That 3rd and 20 he let them convert in the first drive was inexcusible. I'm glad we finally got some INT's but I think that had more to do with Mr. Stafford than it had to do with our defense.
Please Gus, for the love of all that's holy, give me just one jailbreak blitz! Just one for F's sake!
You're dumb if you think the d was that bad. 2 red zone drive starts because of fumbles and picks. Any team would get that lead in that scenario. Remember seattle@green bay 2 years ago?
The D down the stretch impressed me. Don't forget, calvin johnson is one of if not the most elite wide outs in the nfl. 2 catches. we ran solid screens against a pretty good linebacking corps, plus we tuned up. 17-0 1st quarter leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but the 32 -3 closing quarters gave me hope. Offense showed they can hold the ball.
Anyone else thinking detroits secondary has a ton of potential?
You're in denial dude. Good teams don't give up 3rd and 20 in the red zone. I'm hoping they build off of this game too but even Gus has to realize from watching the tape that our front four rarily gets enough pressure. We're gonna need to knock Warner out of his rythm early and often or it's gonna another long game in AZ.
I thought it was interesting watching the AZ Chicago game how similar our defense is to Chicago's in personnel and scheme. After Harris got ejected they weren't able to even whiff at warner and he killed em. I'm hoping we don't suffer the same fate. I want to go in there and stomp the sh!t out of em.
Why aren't they using Wallace on more Wildcat/Gadget plays?
HEY TILLMAN; its Holmgren.. H.O.L.M.G.R.E.N.. You call him "holmy" like your best friends with the guy.
We passed for 329 yards - i don't care how many attempts it took, that's still a good day of offense, period.