A lot of interesting comments about possibly switching to a 3-4 next year. While I’ve never heard team staff discuss this, it is very intriguing to think about…
Curry, Tapp, and maybe Reed could be unleashed as 3-4 OLBs.
Lofa, Hawthorne, maybe HIll, fit well at ILB.
Mebane, Redding, Jackson at DE
But Cole is no better than a backup at NT. This is a huge hole to fill if we were to go to that scheme. And everybody wants to find that huge NT these days, so that may be the only thing that holds them back.
Whether we switch to a 3-4 or stay with a 4-3, we still have a weakness to solve at DT. I’d love to see us solve it by finding a great 350-lb NT and making the switch. The 3-4 teams are showing real advantages lately.
Package Lofa and branch together and see what we can get when trades open up. Seems like Hawthorne is outplaying Lofa statistically his last few starts, so why not!? I know Lofa has the instinct but who cares when you have that but no speed to react!!! GO HEATER!!! Get ‘um for cheap and clear some space for some draft picks,
Lofa is worth too much!!! (nice pick, Timmay, short and fat Hawaiian’s perform greatly)
Man, if Lofa is short and fat, I’d hate to have that same criterium describe myself.
I’ll save you the trouble:
‘…grossly obese, dwarfish, and slower than a jellyfish’
As long as Lofas production doesnt totally tank, I think his intangibles are extremely valuable going forward. That said, I’m certainly liking how Hawthorn is looking as well.
Besides…not sure what the trade value of a player with a torn pec would be anyways…
Like I said, intangibles are great when you have the speed to accompany other wise you are always just “that close” to making a play.
Combine Heater’s last two starts and combine any of lofa’s since the start of 2008. Heater so far has him beat, I’m starting to get tired of “intangibles”.
Soon we’ll have a team full of players with “intangibles” but severely lacking in “tangibles”. I wonder which wins games if you have to separate both? tangibles!!
Just because Hawthorne looks like the real deal, I’m not sure why some of the hate on Lofa? Because he makes a lot of money?
While Lofa is not a Pro Bowler (a Pro Bowler is someone who went to the Pro Bowl last year or is currently having a Pro Bowl season) anymore, that doesn’t mean he can’t get back to that status. He’s fine. He’s not a superstar MLB, but there aren’t many people like Ray Lewis in his prime of a Pat Willis of today. It’s not like Lofa is 30 years old (or older) either. He’s a well above average MLB and that’s a good thing. He’s certainly not a liability (unless he’s hurt and on IR — and the injuries have been frighteningly mounting though).
Speaking to the 3-4… I don’t see how we can do it without drafting Terrence Cody. You need an elite run stuffer if you run that system and good, athletic, powerful 350lb monsters don’t grow on trees.
I don’t think Reed fits that system though. He’s a relentless pass rusher in a 4-3 system. He’s not an OLB in a 3-4 that can drop into pass coverage. At least I don’t think he can. I look at a Pro Bowler like Aaron Kampman, who is one of the best run stuffing and pass rushing LDEs in the NFL. Well, all of a sudden the Packers switch to a 3-4 and Kampman is now a fish out of water in pass coverage. He does damn well, obviously, when he’s getting after the QB though. Very good pressure, as to be expected. Still, it’s stupid to put players in a position that doesn’t suit their strengths. The best Reed could hope for is a situational pass rusher in the 3-4.
At this point I’m not for or against the 3-4. I think our defense would be so much better off if we had that one guy who we could all count on to get consistent pressure. Eric mentioned like what the Cowboys have in Ware in the chat today. We don’t have that guy. If we add Suh in the draft, then we’d have that guy too and it would revolutionize our defense (although not probably in ’10 as I don’t ever see any rookie DT come into the NFL, take it by storm, and go to the Pro Bowl as a rookie). From a rookie standpoint, Cody would be more likely to be effective as a player at NT b/c part of his game is simply being an anchor, whereas Suh would need to figure out the nuiances of being an elite pass rusher AND run stuffer.
In either system, you need the right talent. This is obvious. If you run a 4-3 like we do, it’s almost a must to have that one dominant defensive lineman who can get to the QB and other teams nead to fear and game plan around. If we had that one guy, our other guys up front would play much better and show more than what they are currently showing (I was hoping Mebane would become this player, but sadly, it looks like he’s more of a good player who excels in run defense than a Pro Bowl sack artist).
If we run the 3-4, we need the anchor DL and LBs to fly around. We have the LBs, but need a Terrence Cody. Aaron Curry would be an absolute beast in this system (better than he will be in a 4-3… either way though he’ll be fine).
Darn right about the money!!!! good point, it’s always about the money and we could keep hawth for cheaper. But of course we need to see hawth a little more to prove if he’s worth anything, i think he’s worth a lot!!! he blows through lines and is in the backfield quicker than most!
Poor Mr. Allen. 2nd highest payroll in football buys you this crappy product. What hole do you start fixing first? Obviously Ruskell is gone. We gotta start thinking seriously about the QB. Love you Matt, but your window has closed in Seattle. Bring on Jake by the Lake.
“He may be cheap now but not after he gets a new contract and especially not if we trade Lofa and keep him.”
Audible–Good point.
Variable-
I never said I thought intangibles alone were enough. My point was that having above average ability athletically (not just based on speed) at MLB and very good with ‘intangibles’ means he has a lot of value to the team.
Got it. I will say this, Hawth has out produced Lofa in his first two starts than any of lofa’s two combined games since the start of 2008. Keep in mind that we’re talking about Hawthorne’s FIRST TWO starts, that’s intriguing and begs to question Lofa and his value on the field and off..$$$
Hawthorne keeps it up and now we have a probowl MLB all over again(the Pro-bowl is bias BS though)
Lofa has intangibles and it appears he’s not the only one to have such at that position. I can say that for now but maybe heater will slip. I doubt it though, he’s strong in practice………..he’s strong in preseason…………surprise, he’s strong in the regular as well……………….ok i’m done with my man crush on the heater, hope he surprises the NFL this yr and us by going to the probowl because of bad A$$ numbers like we’ve seen the last few weeks
We need OL, first and foremost, multiple of them. The love for Locker is his size, speed, arm strength, and he can make all the throws at the proffessional level. Have you see some of the dimes he’s thrown that have been dropped. If he wasn’t throwing to such a young receiving core, his numbers would be a lot better. I hope he plays another year before he leaves. Back to the point, OL all day, the D is going to have to take a back seat, at least in this next draft (hopefully).
What do you all think of Redding and Cole so far this season? I can’t say i’ve paid that much specific attention to either of them – but then neither has done that much to gain my attention either. Are either of them a keeper, or just a placeholder until we can find someone better?
Re the Lofa question, I’m starting to think the while a few superstar types transcend the role, the most important people (irrespective of position really) are: i) players who can provide a pass rush; and, ii) playmakers in the defensive backfield.
So, in my mind, it’s not just Lofa, I’m wondering if Hill is worth what we decided to pay him? He’s good, no doubt, but I don’t know that he’s a playmaker either – and it feels like he’s being paid like one.
Lofa hasn’t made a big play since he met Goines in the hole in the NFC Championship Game. He had a great first two years got paid and hasn’t performed up to his contract. I don’t think he outplays Hawthorne, but I’ll give all the Lofa lovers out there the benefit of the doubt and say that he does. That being the case dose he outplay him by 6 million a year???
I like Hawthorne, as a backup to Lofa. Lofa makes others around him better. I see Hawthorne as the same kind of player as Hill. Both are very good as positional players. Lofa has not been surrounded by the dream team of 2005 well since 2005. Tubbs made it easy for Lofa to accel into the runner – cause Tubbs took on all that was in front of him, and the full back. We need a monster like Tubbs on our D line.
BTW – so this:
Seahawks released CB Travis Fisher…don’t know how I missed it. Haven’t seen much comment on Travis Fisher.
I think Cole and Redding have both been valuable improvements to the D line this year, especially Redding. They add important depth to the D line and are the guys we need in there on rushing downs. Both have expensive contracts, but there are not many 290-lb DEs that can play like Redding and there are not many 330-lb DTs who can play, period.
I think Cole is what we thought he was, a guy who contributes in the rotation and handles 2 gaps. He never started in Green Bay and I don’t think he’s a guy we can build the line around here. But when we need a big man to occupy two blockers, he’s the best we have currently. But if Mebane put his weight back on and went back to the 2-gap DT role, he’d still be better than Cole even if he’ll never be as big.
The only problem I have with Redding is he’s not a young player anymore. He still plays the run well and drops back into coverage well for a big man, something he and Tapp have been called on to do often. He’s a good tandem with LoJack, with Redding taking the rushing downs and LoJack playing the passing downs. And he is our only DE who can move inside. I know he’s not a young man but I hope we pay the man in the offseason since big men like Cory are hard to find. I think Ruskell knows how hard big effective D lineman are to find and sign these days and he knew he has to spend more to get guys like this.
Only thing about Redding is that I can’t recall a single time he’s gotten pressure on the QB this year – of course i could be failing to remember every play, but as a DE he’s got to make more of an impact in that area to be worth the $ and the playing time.
I thought both Tapp and Lo Jack were invisible against the Cowboys too – i know Tapp has been improved this year, but he still gets eaten up by a big LT like Flozell Adams.
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A lot of interesting comments about possibly switching to a 3-4 next year. While I’ve never heard team staff discuss this, it is very intriguing to think about…
Curry, Tapp, and maybe Reed could be unleashed as 3-4 OLBs.
Lofa, Hawthorne, maybe HIll, fit well at ILB.
Mebane, Redding, Jackson at DE
But Cole is no better than a backup at NT. This is a huge hole to fill if we were to go to that scheme. And everybody wants to find that huge NT these days, so that may be the only thing that holds them back.
Whether we switch to a 3-4 or stay with a 4-3, we still have a weakness to solve at DT. I’d love to see us solve it by finding a great 350-lb NT and making the switch. The 3-4 teams are showing real advantages lately.
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I’m liking what i see from D-Thorne!!!
Package Lofa and branch together and see what we can get when trades open up. Seems like Hawthorne is outplaying Lofa statistically his last few starts, so why not!? I know Lofa has the instinct but who cares when you have that but no speed to react!!! GO HEATER!!! Get ‘um for cheap and clear some space for some draft picks,
Lofa is worth too much!!! (nice pick, Timmay, short and fat Hawaiian’s perform greatly)
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Did Chris Spencer look bad or what? First play of the game he got blown up and Julius nearly ended up taking a safety.
If any team ever needed to spend multiple draft picks on OL talent, its this team.
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Man, if Lofa is short and fat, I’d hate to have that same criterium describe myself.
I’ll save you the trouble:
‘…grossly obese, dwarfish, and slower than a jellyfish’
As long as Lofas production doesnt totally tank, I think his intangibles are extremely valuable going forward. That said, I’m certainly liking how Hawthorn is looking as well.
Besides…not sure what the trade value of a player with a torn pec would be anyways…
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The game was as expected, no need to get down / excited / or disappointed. This team is what it is..
One thing to note, I think Trufant should give clinic to the rest of the defense on how to tackle. That guy is th best tackler of the team by a mile.
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Like I said, intangibles are great when you have the speed to accompany other wise you are always just “that close” to making a play.
Combine Heater’s last two starts and combine any of lofa’s since the start of 2008. Heater so far has him beat, I’m starting to get tired of “intangibles”.
Soon we’ll have a team full of players with “intangibles” but severely lacking in “tangibles”. I wonder which wins games if you have to separate both? tangibles!!
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Just because Hawthorne looks like the real deal, I’m not sure why some of the hate on Lofa? Because he makes a lot of money?
While Lofa is not a Pro Bowler (a Pro Bowler is someone who went to the Pro Bowl last year or is currently having a Pro Bowl season) anymore, that doesn’t mean he can’t get back to that status. He’s fine. He’s not a superstar MLB, but there aren’t many people like Ray Lewis in his prime of a Pat Willis of today. It’s not like Lofa is 30 years old (or older) either. He’s a well above average MLB and that’s a good thing. He’s certainly not a liability (unless he’s hurt and on IR — and the injuries have been frighteningly mounting though).
Speaking to the 3-4… I don’t see how we can do it without drafting Terrence Cody. You need an elite run stuffer if you run that system and good, athletic, powerful 350lb monsters don’t grow on trees.
I don’t think Reed fits that system though. He’s a relentless pass rusher in a 4-3 system. He’s not an OLB in a 3-4 that can drop into pass coverage. At least I don’t think he can. I look at a Pro Bowler like Aaron Kampman, who is one of the best run stuffing and pass rushing LDEs in the NFL. Well, all of a sudden the Packers switch to a 3-4 and Kampman is now a fish out of water in pass coverage. He does damn well, obviously, when he’s getting after the QB though. Very good pressure, as to be expected. Still, it’s stupid to put players in a position that doesn’t suit their strengths. The best Reed could hope for is a situational pass rusher in the 3-4.
At this point I’m not for or against the 3-4. I think our defense would be so much better off if we had that one guy who we could all count on to get consistent pressure. Eric mentioned like what the Cowboys have in Ware in the chat today. We don’t have that guy. If we add Suh in the draft, then we’d have that guy too and it would revolutionize our defense (although not probably in ’10 as I don’t ever see any rookie DT come into the NFL, take it by storm, and go to the Pro Bowl as a rookie). From a rookie standpoint, Cody would be more likely to be effective as a player at NT b/c part of his game is simply being an anchor, whereas Suh would need to figure out the nuiances of being an elite pass rusher AND run stuffer.
In either system, you need the right talent. This is obvious. If you run a 4-3 like we do, it’s almost a must to have that one dominant defensive lineman who can get to the QB and other teams nead to fear and game plan around. If we had that one guy, our other guys up front would play much better and show more than what they are currently showing (I was hoping Mebane would become this player, but sadly, it looks like he’s more of a good player who excels in run defense than a Pro Bowl sack artist).
If we run the 3-4, we need the anchor DL and LBs to fly around. We have the LBs, but need a Terrence Cody. Aaron Curry would be an absolute beast in this system (better than he will be in a 4-3… either way though he’ll be fine).
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Depends whether or not you want a win that’s tangible.
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With that said i’m not saying Lofa isn’t (or should i say wasn’t a great MLB) a good MLB, just making an observation.
That should save 5 of you from getting on here and preaching about lofa’s worth and ability.
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Darn right about the money!!!! good point, it’s always about the money and we could keep hawth for cheaper. But of course we need to see hawth a little more to prove if he’s worth anything, i think he’s worth a lot!!! he blows through lines and is in the backfield quicker than most!
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He may be cheap now but not after he gets a new contract and especially not if we trade Lofa and keep him.
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I’m not in favor of trading Lofa at this time.
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Poor Mr. Allen. 2nd highest payroll in football buys you this crappy product. What hole do you start fixing first? Obviously Ruskell is gone. We gotta start thinking seriously about the QB. Love you Matt, but your window has closed in Seattle. Bring on Jake by the Lake.
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Honestly,
I don’t understand this love for locker that most people have, is he great and just surrounded by crap? He doesn’t post great numbers.
His speed is amazing………………at the college level……………pathetic at the NFL level………c’mon maaaaaaan.
it’s not just chewy either, all of espn has a @#$%-on for locker………why????????
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besides, Locker looked pretty nervous during his last prime time slot.
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“He may be cheap now but not after he gets a new contract and especially not if we trade Lofa and keep him.”
Audible–Good point.
Variable-
I never said I thought intangibles alone were enough. My point was that having above average ability athletically (not just based on speed) at MLB and very good with ‘intangibles’ means he has a lot of value to the team.
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I also don’t totally understand the Locker hype…someone enlighten us.
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Cornutt-
Got it. I will say this, Hawth has out produced Lofa in his first two starts than any of lofa’s two combined games since the start of 2008. Keep in mind that we’re talking about Hawthorne’s FIRST TWO starts, that’s intriguing and begs to question Lofa and his value on the field and off..$$$
Hawthorne keeps it up and now we have a probowl MLB all over again(the Pro-bowl is bias BS though)
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Lofa has intangibles and it appears he’s not the only one to have such at that position. I can say that for now but maybe heater will slip. I doubt it though, he’s strong in practice………..he’s strong in preseason…………surprise, he’s strong in the regular as well……………….ok i’m done with my man crush on the heater, hope he surprises the NFL this yr and us by going to the probowl because of bad A$$ numbers like we’ve seen the last few weeks
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We need OL, first and foremost, multiple of them. The love for Locker is his size, speed, arm strength, and he can make all the throws at the proffessional level. Have you see some of the dimes he’s thrown that have been dropped. If he wasn’t throwing to such a young receiving core, his numbers would be a lot better. I hope he plays another year before he leaves. Back to the point, OL all day, the D is going to have to take a back seat, at least in this next draft (hopefully).
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What do you all think of Redding and Cole so far this season? I can’t say i’ve paid that much specific attention to either of them – but then neither has done that much to gain my attention either. Are either of them a keeper, or just a placeholder until we can find someone better?
Re the Lofa question, I’m starting to think the while a few superstar types transcend the role, the most important people (irrespective of position really) are: i) players who can provide a pass rush; and, ii) playmakers in the defensive backfield.
So, in my mind, it’s not just Lofa, I’m wondering if Hill is worth what we decided to pay him? He’s good, no doubt, but I don’t know that he’s a playmaker either – and it feels like he’s being paid like one.
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Lofa hasn’t made a big play since he met Goines in the hole in the NFC Championship Game. He had a great first two years got paid and hasn’t performed up to his contract. I don’t think he outplays Hawthorne, but I’ll give all the Lofa lovers out there the benefit of the doubt and say that he does. That being the case dose he outplay him by 6 million a year???
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I like Hawthorne, as a backup to Lofa. Lofa makes others around him better. I see Hawthorne as the same kind of player as Hill. Both are very good as positional players. Lofa has not been surrounded by the dream team of 2005 well since 2005. Tubbs made it easy for Lofa to accel into the runner – cause Tubbs took on all that was in front of him, and the full back. We need a monster like Tubbs on our D line.
BTW – so this:
Seahawks released CB Travis Fisher…don’t know how I missed it. Haven’t seen much comment on Travis Fisher.
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Cole has certainly be disappointing. He hasn’t been terrible though. Redding isn’t bad, but that’s not exactly a compliment either.
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I think Cole and Redding have both been valuable improvements to the D line this year, especially Redding. They add important depth to the D line and are the guys we need in there on rushing downs. Both have expensive contracts, but there are not many 290-lb DEs that can play like Redding and there are not many 330-lb DTs who can play, period.
I think Cole is what we thought he was, a guy who contributes in the rotation and handles 2 gaps. He never started in Green Bay and I don’t think he’s a guy we can build the line around here. But when we need a big man to occupy two blockers, he’s the best we have currently. But if Mebane put his weight back on and went back to the 2-gap DT role, he’d still be better than Cole even if he’ll never be as big.
The only problem I have with Redding is he’s not a young player anymore. He still plays the run well and drops back into coverage well for a big man, something he and Tapp have been called on to do often. He’s a good tandem with LoJack, with Redding taking the rushing downs and LoJack playing the passing downs. And he is our only DE who can move inside. I know he’s not a young man but I hope we pay the man in the offseason since big men like Cory are hard to find. I think Ruskell knows how hard big effective D lineman are to find and sign these days and he knew he has to spend more to get guys like this.
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Only thing about Redding is that I can’t recall a single time he’s gotten pressure on the QB this year – of course i could be failing to remember every play, but as a DE he’s got to make more of an impact in that area to be worth the $ and the playing time.
I thought both Tapp and Lo Jack were invisible against the Cowboys too – i know Tapp has been improved this year, but he still gets eaten up by a big LT like Flozell Adams.
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