Letters to the Editor

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ELECTION: Letter example of smear campaign

Letter by Craig Chilton, Bonney Lake on Sep. 26, 2012 at 3:45 pm with 86 Comments »
September 26, 2012 3:46 pm

Re: “Romney can’t lead by example” (letter, 9-19).

The News Tribune constantly gets letters from people who don’t have their facts straight. Who really led by example?

Mitt Romney was not born into a wealthy family. George Romney was the general manager of the Automobile Manufacturing Association when Romney was born. This was a good job, but he wasn’t rich. It wasn’t until later in the 1950s that he became wealthy.

George Romney passed along a high set of values to his sons. By comparison, Joseph Kennedy made a large fortune in finance and left trust funds to all of his children. However, he didn’t provide his sons with a moral compass.

John Kennedy was a charismatic man and a war hero, but he also was a philanderer and so was his brother Ted. Does Chappaquiddick ring a bell? Neither led by example because true leaders maintain high moral standards.

On the other hand, Mitt Romney has led by example his whole life and was a self-made millionaire. He was an exceptional student, graduating from Harvard with law and business degrees. He is a faithful husband, great family man, bishop in his church and highly successful businessman. His charitable giving and position in his church show how much he cares for the poor and the middle class.

President Obama’s smear campaign is built on lies and inaccurate facts. This letter is a perfect example.

Leave a comment Comments → 86
  1. Another attempt to claim that Mitt wasn’t born with a silver spoon in his mouth…..


  2. President Obama’s smear campaign is built on lies and inaccurate facts. This letter is a perfect example.

    So now we are to believe that the lies and inaccurate facts put forward by Mr. Chilton are part of a smear campaign by Obama?

  3. btw – JFK isn’t running for President.

  4. Frankenchrist says:

    JFK, JFK…didn’t he serve honorably in WWII?

    Mitt Romney–born with a silver spoon in his mouth–is a Vietnam draft dodger, a sniveling chickenhawk wuss with a big yellow stripe down his back.

    However, linking JFK to Mittens is another sign of teabagger moonbattery. Thanks for the laugh, Craig. Seen the polls lately?

    Obama in a landslide.

  5. LeePHilI says:

    Billy Romney, as he was known until age 5, was born to George Romney, an executive at American Motors He took over as chairman and president of American Motors Corporation in 1954. MillyMitt was 7.

    I’m doubting seriously that BillyMitt ever saw dad pack a lunch pail to work.

    Craig…for someone who is so anal retentive on the wealth of Billy’s daddy, you sure are quit to use a false story about Ted Kennedy. There has never been proof of Ted having an affair with Ms Kopechne.

    I’ve never seen your letters about Newt Gingrich’s multiple affairs.

    You’re a living testimony of the hypocrisy of the conservatives.

  6. Sonofwashington says:

    I haven’t seen a smear campaign knocking Romney the man; in fact his family values, work for his church, and generous contributions have been repeatedly acknowledged. But his stated attitudes and proposed policies certainly open him up to criticsm for his lack of caring for the middle class or those in poverty. He can’t even invoke “compassionate conservatism” as that is tantamount to socialism in the eyes of the Tea Partiers.

  7. menopaws says:

    Why do people feel like it is okay to smear one man to build up another???? Jack Kennedy was a WAR hero, he was President of the United States who faced down the Russians during the Cuban Missile Crisis……..Now, I am not particularly interested in his sex life and perhaps this letter writer enjoys peeking through other people’s windows, but private life is private—public life is open to scrutiny……..Mr. Romney never served during Vietnam–he has FIVE sons, none of whom have served either……..President Obama was too young to serve during Vietnam.
    Whatever happened to Ted Kennedy has nothing to do with Mr. Romney and his qualifications….this writer needs to either quit drinking or get his meds checked because this letter makes NO sense……..No one is smearing Mr. Romney’s values or his church or his life. The President has strong issues with his fiscal philosophy and that is fair game……..If you can’t take that heat, you don’t belong in this kitchen!!!!!

  8. aislander says:

    SonofWashington writes: “…[Mitt Romney's] proposed policies certainly open him up to criticsm for his lack of caring for the middle class or those in poverty.”

    Democrats really have the best of it. They can claim the mantle of compassion and generosity by giving away the property of others.

    Their legendary meanness when it comes to giving of their own resources is the other side of that despicable coin: steal from others but keep their own stuff…

  9. sevenstrokeroll says:

    Psssstttt…JFK isn’t only not running, he is no longer with us.

    But seriously, Nim Rodney just comes across as clueless and out-of-touch. Get a grip Republicons. Your candidate is weak.

  10. WBusheyShipsBoatswain says:

    The tinfoil lined coonskin cap Tealiban have touted birth certificates, place of birth, college records, sexual orientation, criminal records, etc ad nauseum as being fact as solid as the 3rd pig’s house (pun intended) and yet Mr. Chilton has the chutzpah to say Obama is doing the smearing? ROTFLMAO

  11. More pathetic right wing whining. Have you got no balls and must you act like little schoolyard boys? Bickering and finger pointing and complaining are the sad remnants what once was the Grand Old Party. Nothing grand, no party for sure, perhaps only old is left…

  12. aislander says:

    Yeah, that stuff’s persuasive. Try again, lefties…

  13. SandHills says:

    Let’s see, very exclusive private schools – love how he was caught on his voucher proposal when asked why can’t all Americans have the advantage of the education he had – it was just the way he said “obviously they can’t” as a response to that question by Williams of NBC News.

    When he did his Mormon mission he was sent to Paris.

    And then Harvard.

    And are you telling me George didn’t give him a leg up financially? Or at least by his own advice to young people, “borrow from your parents”

    Give it a break…there is one difference between Romney’s silver spoon upbringing and the Kennedy’s. Joe Jr. died in WWII and JFK served in the Navy.

    The Kennedy’s could still talk to potential voters without talking down to them. Not a blind worshiper of the Kennedy myth – although I will always think of Bobby as being the best President we never had.

    Sorry Mr. Chilton, this turd don’t float….

  14. Capybara91 says:

    What is an “inaccurate fact”? No one gets elected to anything by telling the truth. Jeez, let me get my violin and a hankie.

  15. SwordofPerseus says:

    “The News Tribune constantly gets letters from people who don’t have their facts straight.”

    Oh the hypocrisy.

  16. Obviously Craig hit the target.

    Nice responses from the usual 0bamapoligists.

    Hey Son, remind me again; in what branch did your guy serve?

  17. lylelaws says:


    when I read your “Private school and Harvard” opening sentence I thought you were making a comment about President Obama. Silly me.

  18. lylelaws says:

    While Mitt Romney gives millions to charity Joe Biden who was born with a “silver shoe” in his mouth, gave about something like $369 the last year I read about.

    Thanks Joe.

  19. Well done Craig. Look at the panic.

    So, BHO didn’t go to elite schools paid for by a wealthy banker?

    JFK? Teddy? You guys for real? What did JFK do with that intern again? How about Ted and a famous incident?

    Is Mitt rich? Yup. Was he born to a middle class family? Yup. What do you leftists want to provide your kids? Jealous Mitt’s parents provided more then you did to your kids????

  20. SandHills says:

    Well lyle, it was a comparison of the Kennedy’s and Mitt Romney, not Obama, however Punahou is much cheaper than Cranbrook…

    And given the new polls coming out of Ohio and Florida, even that comparison won’t be necessary in about 6 weeks.

    Panic CT8, nah, just trying to flush more distorted turds some of you in the GOP choir try to float.

  21. charliebucket says:

    panic? hit the target? not.

    When I see Craig Chilton’s name at the top of a LTE I simply plug my nose and put on my hip waders cuz the BS is gonna be real deep.

  22. SandHills says:

    menopaws, I have to say I have some disparaging words for Romney and his religion…both flip-flop whenever they are outed on something they try to hide.

  23. LeePHilI says:

    CT….are you really ignorant or do you just ask ignorant questions?

    Panic? You have to be kidding. Obama is leading in EVERY poll in the US and you are playing your game about “panic”? Maybe what we should all do is ignore you and watch your head explode again like you did last night.

    I’m going to reverse one of your questions and I’ll bet you can’t answer it…..

    What about Ted and the famous incident? My answer is that there was a fatality car accident that went unreported for too long.

    Now, aside from the price of rice in China, tell us what Chappaquidick has to do with an election that Mitt Romney is losing in 2012.

  24. LeePHilI says:

    Lyle…what does donation to charity have to do with being a President? Vice President?

    Do you know that many people don’t claim charity donations on income tax? I’m one that doesn’t, because I’m not doing it to avoid paying taxes. How much “in kind” did Joe Biden provide for charity? For that matter…how much did YOU donate. Since you are the one that says that one must have served in the military to talk about others, I think that you need to caugh up your charity donations and in-kind before you go talking about others.

  25. LeePHilI says:

    “Is Mitt rich? Yup. Was he born to a middle class family? Yup.”

    Is CT incapable of reading a simple wiki bio on Mitt? Yup.

    Being the son of the CEO of an auto manufacturer in 1954 wasn’t middle class. Middle class were the guys working on the assembly line.

    Again, I ask…are you really ignorant or just pretending to be?

    “So, BHO didn’t go to elite schools paid for by a wealthy banker?”

    No, Barack Obama was scholarshipped for performance and need. As to college, what wasn’t a scholarhip was student loans.

    Again….all this information right at your fingertips and you prefer to ask stupid questions that make you look like a fool…..

  26. lovethemountains says:

    Hey, LeePHill….Nope, no evidence that old Ted was having an affair with Ms. Kopechne. He just ran off and let her drown while he sobered up. Do you remember that part or are you just “a living testimony of the hypocrisy of” liberals?

  27. lylelaws says:


    We don’t have much to give, but we send along a few dollar to various charities when we can.

    We also send a modest automatic monthly donation to the Pierce County Humane Society to help provide for the abandoned and abused pets that can’t provide for themselves. I hope you do too.

  28. menopaws says:

    Again, what in the hell does Ted Kennedy have to do with Mitt Romney????the land of the serial whiners is active tonight—those poll numbers must be tough when your candidate is the biggest whiner of all……Deal with it–you failed your party and they failed you…..Want a mirror?

  29. aislander says:

    God, I love how lefties choose the time periods that suit their distortions! The letter writer said nothing about 1956, but mentioned the year 1947, when Mitt was born into a middle-class family…

  30. bbsbxringrliars says:

    On the 7th. let the liberal whining begin….you lib’s are all liars..

  31. lylelaws says:


    Just in case you haven’t noticed the only people I ask about their military service are those who try to portray Republicans as draft dodgers.

  32. Hill-

    Choom Gang. Grandma was a banker who bankrolled is education.

    After that, there is just conspiracy. Perhaps a foriegn backer? A loan (least likely)?

    Yes, there is evidence a shady character paid for his college education. Also, how about that summer he spent in the future leader of Pakistan’s estate?

    Between terrorists (WU), college (minus grades/financing and scholarly work), and his momma (the diehard commie) his life is a mystery. His books were fiction.

    Dems, you should have gone with Hillary. Your guilt is destroying the country (and the ME). Do not vote in the presidential election this year. I am not asking you to vote for Romney, just do not vote. Do what is best for you, your children, and America.

  33. normajean says:

    LeePHill & Menopaws. You are both so right on the money. I listened to Rachel Maddow & I was appalled at Mitt for saying 1 thing publicly & then when fact checkers confronted him about it, he just lied about it. We are neither party this time around but out righ lies & flip flopping about important issues just makes my skin boil. This man was never middle class.

  34. Grandma bankrolling Obama’s education is bad.

    But didn’t Romney say students should relay on the parents and families if they want to get a good education?

    And did not Daddy Romney fund Mitt’s schooling?

    Lyle – I am a former marine, what service were you in?

    CT8 – what is destroying this country are the GOP and their Corporate masters.

  35. Norma, Obama (or someone using his name) wrote a fiction piece and passed it off as story of his life. Racial hardships that never happened, poverty that never was known, etc.

    One pundit shows you one factoid and you are sold. Very sad.

  36. MyBandito says:

    The only person running a smear champagne against Romney is Romney, now that Sanatorium and Gingrich are out.

    Romney is doing a great job of showing his disconnect with the American public. He’s on par with the replacement refs.

  37. MyBandito says:

    Don’t forget, Gingrich was the one who called Romney a liar. He didn’t say that Romney lied, he said that Romney is a liar.

  38. What was George Romney’s salary in 1947…..I suppose that is why Mitt thinks Middle Class is $200-250K.

  39. George Romney passed along a high set of values to his sons.

    Not so much…..Mitt is not nearly the man that his father was. His father insisted that his pay as CEO be kept at a lower level than he was being offered in order to ensure that the workers received good compensation levels. Mitt was a vulture capitalist who bought companies and gave himself huge bonuses by saddling those companies with debts that immediately required massive layoffs – if not bankruptcy.

  40. Speaking of smear campaigns not directly controlled or approved by the candidates:

    Citizens United Ruling Accounts for 78 Percent of Campaign Spending


  41. its the law of the land. Like Obamacare and the tax code.

    Sorry that unins are noo longer the only big money game in town

  42. LeePHilI says:

    Union money represents a vote of the members.

    Corporate money represents a donation of a CEO’c choice.

    Which closer represents DEMOCRACY?

    Lovethemtns – if that is your idea of an affair….I’m wondering how Newt didn’t kill someone since he had multiple affairs.

  43. LeePHilI says:

    “CT8 says:
    Sep. 26, 2012 at 10:55 pm Norma, Obama (or someone using his name) wrote a fiction piece and passed it off as story of his life. Racial hardships that never happened, poverty that never was known, etc.
    One pundit shows you one factoid and you are sold. Very sad.”

    Again….the attempt to look ridiculous comes shining through. CT discounts an autobiographical account without a single drop of proof to support the denial….but tells someone not to believe on pundit???

    Very stupid.

  44. BB – you are aware of Mitt not taking a salary when he ran the Olympics and when he was Governor. In 2008, Romney said he will not take his salary if he becomes President and I asssume that to be the case in 2012. Did you forget that?

    The liberals might try reading the letter “Romney can’t lead by example”. The letter writer compares the Kennedys to Romney but never mind.

    Obama not running a smear campaign? Right.

  45. averageJose says:

    Of course he is chile. He’s also willfully ignorant when it comes to all the democrats who are 1%ers.

  46. averageJose says:

    I rarely follow bB’s rabbit hole blog links but felt a little Lewis Carrol style might be entertaining.

    LMAO… “Resisting the New World Order” is the name of the site.

    Hey b, next time respond in your usual hypocritical fashion and claim someone is falling for conspiracy theory, put a sock in it.

  47. The original source, linked within the link I provided:

    Somehow 14jimms missed that……

  48. And, both sources cite the Sunlight Foundation for their information:

    The Sunlight Foundation is a nonprofit, nonpartisan organization that uses the power of the Internet to catalyze greater government openness and transparency, and provides new tools and resources for media and citizens, alike. We are committed to improving access to government information by making it available online, indeed redefining “public” information as meaning “online,” and by creating new tools and websites to enable individuals and communities to better access that information and put it to use.

    We want to catalyze greater government transparency by engaging individual citizens and communities — technologists, policy wonks, open government advocates and ordinary citizens –- demanding policies that will enable all of us to hold government accountable. Sunlight develops and encourages new government policies to make it more open and transparent, facilitates searchable, sortable and machine readable databases, builds tools and websites to enable easy access to information, fosters distributed research projects as a community building tool, engages in advocacy for 21st century laws to require that government make data available in real time and trains thousands of journalists and citizens in using data and the web to watchdog Washington.

    But it seems that averageMind couldn’t go that far in his “research” of my link….

  49. Romney’s 2002 Olympics COST US Taxpayers $1.3 Billion …

    Romney’s one term governorship (a full half-term more than the past GOP VP nominee) was notable for Romneycare – which, it is said by many conservative commentators, is bankrupting the state.

    Not only was it appropriate that he worked for free – he should be paying the taxpayers reparations for the work that he did.

  50. You brought it up (again and again) so I did a little research:

    The Salt Lake games cost taxpayers 1.5 times the amount spent on the previous seven Olympics held in the U.S. — combined. While some money went to security, much of it was spent on infrastructure and “questionable projects of marginal value to the Salt Lake games.” Mother Jones reports that the taxpayer money was something of a slush fund for wealthy donors:

    Wealthy Utahns used the games as an excuse to receive exemptions for projects that would otherwise never meet environmental standards, or to receive generous subsidies for improvements of questionable value to the games—but with serious value to future real estate developments. In one example, a wealthy developer received $3 million to build a three-mile stretch of road through his resort. Where’d he get the money? Federal funds that had been deposited in the Utah Permanent Community Impact Fund.

    Indeed, Mitt Romney was so eager to get “free stuff” and other things from the government that he even became a registered lobbyist. It appears that Romney may have been lobbying some of the same legislators to whom he was giving thousands in campaign cash.


  51. No Republican has ever won the presidency without carrying Ohio.

    Ohio: Romney vs. Obama CBS/NYT/Quinnipiac
    Obama 53, Romney 43
    Obama +10

  52. Chilton: “On the other hand, Mitt Romney has led by example his whole life”
    So, let’s see: He beat up and cut the hair of a fellow student. He tied his dog in a crate on top of his family car (for all his boys to learn how to abuse animals). He avoided going to Vietnam. He ran a campaign LEFT of Ted Kennedy. He hoards his money overseas. His business practice was to buy companies, lay off staff to make the books look good, and then he dumped the whole thing for a profit. He hides his tax return and fudges the two he chooses to show. He was for Romney care before he was against Obama-Care. And he does not give a rat’s rear about half of the American population.
    YES! A real stand-up guy, your Mitt Willard.
    No to be too negative: He is innovative. He wants windows that open on airplanes.

  53. So if Obamacare is based on Romneycare, we are going to bankrupt the Nation, right BB?

  54. averageJose says:

    I saw the “truthout” link… what’s your point?

  55. averageJose says:

    CBS/Times poll was 20th out 23 in 2008 in terms of the presidetial race.
    The big media organizations almost universally failed to give readers a final accurate prediction, with Newsweek coming in dead last, just behind polls for CBS/New York Times; Reuters/C-Span/Zogby and Gallup.

    Guess which one was number 1…



  56. the3rdpigshouse says:

    When a trained anti-American marxist even has a chance of becoming POTUS – the USA is headed for BIG problems!!!

  57. the3rdpigshouse says:

    bB – how do you vote for an individual who was tutored by many marxist/socialist activists over a successful pro-American like Romney???!

    Now, tell me again how it is not a position based on race!!! Sorry, not that gullible!

  58. Frankenchrist says:

    Romney is losing in Michigan–his home state–and in Massaschusetts where he was a moderate-to-liberal governor. He is behind in New York, Florida, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Ohio.

  59. aislander says:

    Mr. Chilton is being unduly kind to the memory ole Joe Kennedy when he gives him credit for making his fortune in “finance.”

    The Kennedy patriarch was a bootlegger who made his money because of that progressive disaster, prohibition.

    No wonder that old Nazi and his entire family became Democrats…

  60. One reads this kiddie sandbox bickering, and one can only scratch their heads and laugh. Who really cares about ANY of this stuff! Sheesh…Back n forth were right youre wrong and neener neener neener!

    Just for fun, as far a JFK is concerned, he wasn’t in office long enough to prove whether he was worth a hill of beans or not.

    What he DID accomplish however was to fill the role of fresh, young change from the old fuddyduddy administrations that preceded him to a young emerging mass of baby boomers looking for someone to fill that image, who put him on a gilded pedestal when he died. That was his legacy, along with becoming the role model fixation of Bill Clinton, John Kerry, Obama and any other liberal Democrat.

    As far as his morals, or lack of, he made Bill Clinton look like a choirboy.

  61. BlaineCGarver says:

    Once again, everything is covered except the pertinent facts. What does America want? Socialism, or Capitalism. It’s that easy.

  62. aislander says:

    Yep, BCG, it’s freedom and opportunity or dependency and leveling.

    That cut and dried…

  63. menopaws says:

    Does anyone else notice the stench of desperation? CT8 is really off the rails with his accusations—-must be really depressing when you back the Whiners……….I was at a party over the weekend where someone told me they were just sick of Republican ads with only white faces………When this party starts to look like the American I live in–I will pay attention to them again………Pay attention to their stump speeches–always older, white faces in their crowds…….Time is passing them by……and demographics.

  64. Sonofwashington says:

    One more Romney bit – He incorporated a company in Bermuda called “Brookside Management Company” which he used to make investments in China. Interesting that he turned it over to his wife, Ann, the day before he became governor of Massaschussetts.

    Wouldn’t it be great if he had the ethics of his father and released his tax returns to give America a honest insight to his personal finances and “management style”?

  65. Frankenchrist says:

    The words “Mitt Romney” are synonymous with “bowel movement.”

  66. Frankenchrist says:

    I gotta go take a Mitt. Man, that coffee works!

  67. averageJose says:

    Scatalogical humor should have expired around the 3rd grade… huh bB?

  68. averageJose says:

    How about we play trivia… who authored the quote below?

    hint lives in Idaho…

    “It’s interesting how polls are always most significant when they support one’s own views and rather unimportant when they don’t.”

  69. Sonofwashington says:

    CT8 – You are so right. Citizens United is indeed the law of the land, courtesy of 5 “conservative” justices who deemed that the “original intent” of our founders was that corporations not only have the rights of people but there can be no limit on their political expenditures. What an abomination of the “original intent” concept!

    And BTW, they overturned 200 years of congressionally-passed laws governing campaign financing. Talk about your activist court!

    If nothing else, the Citizens United decision proves that conservatives do not work on principle; it is purely an agenda that pursues power and profit at the highest levels. The very American democracy and liberties they claim to hold sacrosanct are in jeopardy of being put at the whim of the corporate elite that are striving to take over our political process.

  70. Frankenchrist says:

    Todd Aiken, the GOP’s “legitimate rape” candidate, is now receiving the full support of Newt Gingrich. Nothing like family values, eh GOPhers?

  71. old_benjamin says:

    Remind me, what military branch did Joe Biden serve in? Seems I remember something about college deferments until 1968 and then a medical pass for “asthma,” despite his claims that he played college football.

    President Obashian could have volunteered to serve but didn’t. How that makes him morally superior to Mitt Romney escapes me entirely.

  72. alindasue says:

    SandHills said, “When he did his Mormon mission he was sent to Paris.”

    People keep bringing up that his mission was served in Paris, as if his being called to serve in Paris was evidence of his pampered existence or something…

    The church’s missionaries have always paid for their own living expenses when they serve their missions and the church has missions all over the world. Some places have a very low cost of living, while others have a very high cost of living. Sometime back in the late ’80s/early ’90s (shortly before my sister-in-law served her mission in Brazil), the church decided that there would be a set amount that each missionary would have to pay for living expenses regardless of the cost of living in the mission he or she was being sent to. When Mitt Romney served his mission in the ’60s, that wasn’t in place yet – so, of course, missionaries from families who could afford to pay more were sent to places where it cost more to live, like Paris.

    Regardless of where they were sent, the lives of the missionaries are basically the same. They live in simple community apartments with their companions and possibly a couple other missionaries. They are up at dawn, out doing missionary work all day, and back in the apartment by 21:00. It’s not a life of luxury, even in Paris. Every day is devoted to doing the Lord’s work, prayer, scripture study, and community service.

    Yes, SandHill, you can see the church changed its policy on that a bit too. Just like in the Bible, God’s prophets and followers are given instructions gradually as the situation warrants it. That’s that “flip-flopping” that you keep going on about.

    Did you know that Joseph Smith smoked and drank coffee? It’s no secret that he did – until he was given the revelation that we now call the “Word of Wisdom” (Doctrine and Covenants 89) that outlines how we should be taking care of our bodies. Now Mormons don’t smoke or drink alcohol, coffee, or tea, even though they did all of that before. It’s not “flip-flopping”. It’s further instructions.

  73. Frankenchrist says:

    Living in Paris instead of Vietnam IS evidence of a very pampered, privileged, and protected existence.

    Romney is a draft dodger and a coward.

  74. alindasue says:


    I followed the link to the full article on the truth-out site. I found this very interesting:

    “The study noted that a “deeper dive” into the data tracked by the Sunlight Foundation “shows that the latest uptick in outside spending is focused on congressional races: Even in presidential battleground states, almost all the spending by outside groups is focused on House and Senate candidates.””

    In other words, the PACs like Citizens United understand what many of us have been saying all along: the real power to change things is not with the president, but with the congress. A president can try to enact change all he wants, but when the stated goal of nearly half of congress is nothing more than to “make sure he is a one term president”, not much is going to get done.

  75. old_benjamin says:

    Obashian’s father earned a Master’s from Harvard. His mother earned a Ph.D. Perhaps not a silver spoon in little Barry’s mouth but surely a bronze.

  76. FC just hates success. Why else would anyone vote for BHO? Envy and jealousy are terrible attributes.

    Such a sad, dark world you and Meno live in.

    Race and envy run your political views.

  77. SwordofPerseus says:

    You’re confusing “charity” with “non-profit.”

    The Romneys give almost nothing to charity. Look at the single year of their tax returns they’ve released. Only a few thousand to charities. That’s it.

    Yes, they give money to non-profits, but they’re not charities. What is the second largest non-profit to which the Romney’s contributed? The George W. Bush Presidential Library. That’s not a charity. That doesn’t help the needy and unfortunate.

    What’s the largest non-profit denomination? To the Mormon church. That’s not a charity, either. Unlike the Methodists or the Catholics, and most other organized religions, the Mormons give almost nothing to charity — far less than one percent. The Mormons don’t help the needy and unfortunate. They help themselves.

    The Mormon budget goes to recruiting more Mormons, building up Mormon businesses, and fighting Mormon political fights. Not a one of them are charitable endeavors. Talk about facts straight, you don’t know facts, just wrong wing talking points.

  78. Frankenchrist says:

    You mean success like Jim Sinegal and Costco? Steve Jobs? Warren Buffet? Nope, I appreciate people who actually build something. However, Mittens never built anything in his life. He dismantles, dismembers, and destroys. He likes to fire people and make millions sending jobs to China. That’s not success; that’s treason.

  79. alindasue says:


    The church tends to keep its missionaries out of active war zones. There is no way he would have served his mission there even if he wanted too.

    And finally… in response to this thread, a few points:

    Both President Obama and Mitt Romney are wealthy. I don’t know of any president or general election presidential candidate who wasn’t.

    Both President Obama and Mitt Romney attended private schools while growing up and both went to Harvard.

    Both President Obama and Mitt Romney are church going men with well raised children and strong family values.

    Neither President Obama nor Mitt Romney has any military service experience.

    So… all things apparently being equal, how about we all get back to actually discussing how the candidates fare on the issues involved in doing the job of president. Thanks.

  80. What does America want? Socialism, or Capitalism. It’s that easy.

    Clearly, since the majority of Americans want Social Security and Medicare while they say they want Capitalism, it clearly isn’t that easy.

    I want socialized programs when they make sense and REAL capitalism (you know, the kind that took excess capital and invested in order to manufacture products – not the Leveraged Buy-out/Vulture “Capitalism” of Bain that creates nothing but debt) where it makes sense.

    But then, simple slogans for simple minds…..

  81. Frankenchrist says:

    I wasn’t suggesting Mittens should have served his “mission” in Vietnam. He used his “church” as an excuse to avoid military service and live it up in the south of France. Mormonism is no different than Scientology in that they are both money-making religious cults. Membership in a religious cult has never before or after been a way to avoid the draft.

  82. SwordofPerseus and frankenchrist – living in “MightasWellbeUtah”, just a two hour drive from the center of the Hive, I really don’t like the borg-like culture of the dominant religious group here. But, I have met more than a few Mormons who have moved here from other states who have shared their misgivings about the Mormon culture of Idaho too.

    However, religion should not be a consideration on whether or not a candidate is qualified. This holds for Catholics, Jews, Mormons, Muslims, Protestants, Hindus, Pastafarians – whatever. I felt that the one candidate from either Party that could have done some good was Jon Huntsman who, like Romney, is a Mormon but, unlike Romney, he didn’t seem prepared to sell his soul for the Office or, earlier, to feather his nest.

    So, please knock it off – the anti-Mormon thing doesn’t help convince anyone.

  83. Frankenchrist says:


    I have LDS in my family and they are the nicest people in the world. However, that doesn’t change the fact that the Mormon Church is a secretive cult and Romney used it to avoid military service. That makes his religion relevent and I will continue to cast a skeptical eye on it. Ditto Huntsman. He would have been a fine intelligent candidate but he had the audacity to trust science over dogma. That made him anathema to the GOP.

  84. alindasue says:

    SwordofPerseus said, “The Mormon budget goes to recruiting more Mormons, building up Mormon businesses, and fighting Mormon political fights. Not a one of them are charitable endeavors. Talk about facts straight…”

    Okay, let’s talk about getting facts straight.

    The IRS form only says how much Mitt Romney donated to whom. What it doesn’t say, and what is really his business alone to know, is how much of that donation was tithing, how much of it went to the missionary fund, how much of it went to things like Fast Offering and Humanitarian fund, and so forth. All that goes on the IRS form is total amount that goes to the church.

    Thing is used for:
    Constructing temples, chapels, and other buildings.
    Providing operating funds for the Church.
    Funding the missionary program (This does not include individual missionary expenses.)
    Preparing materials used in Church classes and organizations.
    Temple work, family history, and many other important Church functions.

    The missionary fund is for those who want to donate a little extra specifically toward the missionary efforts. If someone is having trouble gathering enough money for his mission living expenses, help with that would generally come from this fund.

    Fast Offering – once a month, members who can are asked to fast for a day and donate the money not spent on those meals as Fast Offering. That money all goes to the church’s well known welfare program.

    Humanitarian fund – SwordofPerseus, this is the fund that addresses the outside the church “charity work” you are talking about. How much of individual member’s income is donated to this fund? I don’t know. That is a private issue between each person and the Lord.

    I could go on to write an essay about the humanitarian work done by the church and its members, but if you really want to know (not much can be done for it if you don’t) there is a whole section with subsections on the church’s website that talks about what the church does with humanitarian funds and what it wants us as members to do to help with humanitarian efforts both within our local communities and in the world as a whole.


    If you’d prefer a more condensed version of the same thing, it can be found at http://mormon.org/humanitarian-aid

    You wanted straight facts. Those are your straight facts.

  85. alindasue says:

    beerBoy – ^-^b I see you’ve finally adopted my nickname for the place.

    Frankenchrist – There are a good number of young men who served their two years as missionaries and then went on to join the military (or vice-versa). It was Mitt Romney’s years in college after his mission that truly deferred his eligibility for the draft. Now if you want to talk about that, that’s a different matter…

    By the way, did you actually serve in Vietnam? My father (who is not LDS), like his father before him, joined the navy in 1963 just as the Vietnam mess was starting to flare up. He spent the Vietnam war going back and forth between the eastern USA, Scotland, and Spain. That doesn’t make his 12 years in the service any less honorable.

    Personally, I think any person who actually volunteered to willingly fight in Vietnam is quite likely certifiable. Most men, rich or poor, were finding any way they possibly could to avoid being drafted and sent to Vietnam – even if it meant joining another service like the National Guard as President George W. Bush did.

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