Letters to the Editor

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ELECTION: Mitt Romney won’t fix anything

Letter by John E. Nelson, Graham on Sep. 24, 2012 at 2:14 pm with 117 Comments »
September 24, 2012 2:40 pm

I don’t know if Barack Obama will ever fix our economy, especially given the paralyzing partisanship currently afflicting our government, but I do know that Mitt Romney absolutely will not.

This isn’t partisan; it’s history. Romney and his Republican cohorts want to take us back to the days of trickle-down economics in a deregulated business environment. That’s great for the rich and affluent, bad for the rest of us.

Trickle-down sounds nice in theory, but in practice the only wealth trickling down is trickling straight into the pockets of the affluent and wealthy – and staying there. Look to history for guidance. Since Reagan ushered in trickle-down economics, the gap between rich and poor has ballooned to levels not seen since the days of the robber barons, and the middle class has been declining more with each passing year. The only (slight) reversal to that trend occurred during the Clinton years.

Deregulation, a cornerstone of conservative philosophy, is a good idea but it absolutely does not work when done the Republican way, leaving the fox to run the hen house. We saw it in the 1980s with the deregulation of the savings and loan industry, and the latest example with the deregulation of the mortgage industry. We all know where that led.

Historically, most job creation has occurred during Democratic administrations. In fact, roughly twice as many jobs have been created during Democratic administrations in the last 50 years.

The implication is clear. Romney won’t fix our economy; he’ll just make it worse.

Leave a comment Comments → 117
  1. Frankenchrist says:

    Mitt Romney is a miserable draft dodger who will never, ever be elected president.

    47% indeed.

  2. Hey John, is the middle class better off under Obama? Nope. The past is not the present. Why are middle class voters swinging to Romney?

    Dems destroy the economy, republicans set the wheels in motion for a recovery, then a dem takes over again and the cycle repeats.

    Time to bring the adults back to Washington.

  3. The middle class is better off since the President took office. The past is a guide for the future and repeating past republican mistakes is not the answer.
    A wise person is one who comprehends that the ship is sinking and heads for the lifeboats. Pawlenty comes to mind.

  4. chrisj122 says:

    Hey CT8, you call “setting the wheels in motion for a recovery” shedding 750,000 jobs a month? That’s what was happening when G.W.B. left office. That’s right before Obama even got sworn into office the country was losing 750,000 and was on the verge of another great depression.

    Oh did you conveniently forget about that? This is what happens when have two wars that are NOT paid for, then decide everyone should get a tax cut.

    You and others act as if Reagan was the last Republican President. It’s like Reagan was president, you feel asleep, woke up and the black guy destroyed everything.

    Sorry but anyone with a half of a brain has a little better short term memory than just that.

  5. Frankenchrist says:

    Mitt Romney is writing a textbook on failed presidential campaigns. His ineptness is even more appalling when you consider that he was the BEST the repukes had to offer! Newt Gingrich, Rick Santorum, and Mitt Romney…good God, what a pathetic choice of losers.

  6. MyBandito says:

    CT8= Just more yadda, yadda,yadda, no substance.

    Romney has a plan that will redistribute even more wealth to his wealthy friends, just like the last guy did with his tax cuts for the overly wealthy.

  7. lylelaws says:


    I am still waiting to learn anout your military record.

  8. Chrisj, I will answer you even though the unpaid war crap shows your complete ignorance. Heck, then BHO hasn’t paid for any war costs either. Or the stimulus. Or another $3.5tril in spending.

    After the dems took congress, after they failed to control Fannie and Freddie, after they ensured everyone had a house they could not afford, we faced a huge financial crisis. Bush enacted TARP, fixing the credit shortage and bailing out GM. BUSH set the date for the end of operations in Iraq (NYT just had a great article on how BHO lost all our gains there).

  9. A very well written letter. There is plenty of evidence to prove that cutting taxes and the trickle down theory doesn’t work, but it sure helps the rich get richer. Let’s move forward; not back. My personal portfolio has recovered and is doing better than ever and I’m hearing the same thing from my friends. My home value is recovering. The recovery will take a long time, but I’m not one of those people (like the serial whiners) who expect an instant fix. My parents didn’t expect a quick fix during the great depression and they came out ahead in the end. I have no confidence in Romney’s plan…too many missing details and simplistic sound bites. I’m sticking with the president who has brought us through some mighty tough economic times.

  10. SandHills says:

    While there are many issues I disagree with on both sides, I tend to look at those issues that affect me directly. So far there has been a lack of definitive substance from Romney on how he plans to change any of the tax code – he keeps saying elect me first then I’ll tell you. But there have been very strong hints (the GOP platform for one) that specifically states he will abolish the one significant advantage the middle class have under the tax code – the mortgage interest deduction.

    When asked about this, Romney still says elect me first and find out. Obama has been very clear that he could never ask the middle class to give up this only tax advantage, while allowing the wealthy to keep all of their tax advantages.

    As a retired veteran, drawing a pension, I see myself as part of the 47% Romney said he could care less about.

    How many other middle-of-the-roaders are in the same boat as me? How many really believe the elderly (who one day we all become) can pay for healthcare with vouchers?

    For many of us the scale has tipped against Romney – and he needed us the most of all to have a shot.

    Because we were never the “undecided” – as accurately portrayed in the recent SNL episode. Anyone who is still undecided must live in a parallel universe and wear tin-foil hats. Does Romney seriously think he can depend on this group to give him more votes than he already has in Fox News devotees?

    Romney is only speaking to the choir from here on out…and the choir doesn’t have enough votes to put him in the White House.

  11. Rudy, where is Obama’s detailed plan? Exactly. 4 years later and nothing but unfinanced goals and class warfare.

  12. averageJose says:

    This isn’t partisan… the history of the last 4 years shows Obama is capable of 2 things… creating more debt and more terrorists who hate America.

  13. chrisj122 says:

    CT8, as far as both Iraq and Afghanistan wars, Bush never had either of these on the books or accounted for in any budget. Obama put both of these wars in the budget, ballooning the deficit.

    The housing crisis was not created in a 2yr period. It was result of 30yrs of deregulation. To just blame Democrats is just dishonest. The fact is it was result of both party’s deregulating housing rules.

    Yes, you are correct Bush did enact the first TARP plan and auto bail out but when Obama extended both plans every republican all of the sudden became an accountant major. As if the government had been fiscally responsible all the years until Obama took office.

    Yes, once again you are correct, Bush did set the withdrawal date for Iraq but it doesn’t change the fact that we should had never been there to begin with. We were only there as result of cherry picked intel and fabricated story’s about train cars that are mobile bomb manufacturing labs. All created by the Bush administration.

    Your last statement “unfinanced goals and class warfare”
    None of the Bush tax cuts were ever paid for. Never in the history of the U.S.A. has there been a tax cut during war time, until the Bush tax cuts. If you were a supporter of the war and tax cuts at the same time then you have zero credibility about fiscally responsibility.

  14. SandHills says:

    averageJose…you just proved my point. Soundbites from Fox News is only for the choir, it has no affect in bringing in more votes that Romney needs.

    We will never know if letting GM and the banks fail would have been better for the country, and we were already a trillion behind for paying for our wars on the cuff. Plus I doubt Obama made any more terrorists than is normally created in the natural breeding ground of the Middle East (kinda like saying there are more mosquitoes coming out of a swamp) – but at least there is one big one that fed the fishes…

  15. Chris, when did the Obama pass a budget? Oh…

    This is an old, recycled argument. Bush obviously paid for the wars. They added to the debt. BHO did not walk into a trillion dollar war bill (directly, you can argue he has to pay for the interest on that debt).

    We were at war but also recovering from a recession, followed by 9-11. He acted like a leftist, going into debt to grow the economy. It was wrong then like it is wrong now. BHO simply tripled down on the spending, except his spending is for select supporters.

  16. SandHills says:

    CT8, I’ll restate my main point in simpler terms. You too are part of the choir (just as others on here are part of the liberal choir) y’all would sing your tune if it were not Romney, or not Obama.

    The turning point is when Romney lost the battle for the middle-ground. Obama didn’t exactly win those middle-ground voters (who read, rather than depend Fox News, for a “fair and balanced” evaluation of who deserves their votes), but will benefit none-the-less.

    I certainly don’t see most of my views matching up with the likes of the Frankenchrists on this forum – but once it became apparent from Romney-Ryan that they would not commit to specifics until after the election, well it changed the dynamics for those like me who would rather stick with the devil we know rather than the devil we have no idea what they will do – other than eliminating mortgage interest deduction. The “don’t care for the 47% who depend on the government” statement sort of pushed us (maybe not all that willingly) into the Obama column for our votes. Ryan getting booed by an older crowd of Medicare recipients was another indicator of how the GOP has let this one slip through their fingers.

    To late now to keep singing the same tune to those in the choir.

  17. Sonofwashington says:

    CT8 – You have an incredible way of twisting facts to fit your story line that Bush did no wrongs and Obama can do nothing right. Your statement that “Bush obviously paid for the wars” is quite obviously wrong. Adding it to the American credit card is not paying for it. He stuck America with the bill AND gave tax cuts across the board and with TARP, generated record-breaking deficits. Of course we taxpayers are paying interest on top of it, but kindly exempting corporations and the rich from paying their share of the bill despite the fact that they reaped the greatest rewards from Bush policies.

    BTW, Freddie and Fannie were involved in only a fraction of the mortgage crisis. But they are the Republicans’ favorite scapegoat to deflect from the fact that by far the greatest proportion of the mortgage crisis was due to Republican-sponsored deregulation. This allowed the banks to undertake credit default swaps and other “creative” instruments that created billions in hyper-inflated paper assets. Now, as middle class families struggle to keep their homes, the very bankers who caused the crisis reward themselves with bonuses and enjoy the Bush tax cuts ever more…

  18. sevenstrokeroll says:

    I disagree! Trickle down economics “sounds” stupid and in fact…it is.

  19. SandHills says:

    bb, I am far from being a liberal. But I believed that demographics have moved beyond the typical white, married with children, two car garage, secure job (with full medical/dental and guaranteed pension plan) voters that have supported the GOP.

    The reality is that even with the voting rules in certain states that restrict certain voters (todays news was saying upwards of 10million Hispanics), there are just too many who do not see individual initiative and hard work as the “typical American” anymore – and they are breeding faster than the typical GOP crowd.

    The liberal idea of government – especially with a hefty dose of class warfare – speaks to this growing demographic much better than the GOP.

    Believe me, the numbers are there – and Romney may have had a chance if he did not say anything to motivate them to get to the polls and vote. But the Romney-Ryan ticket has shot themselves too many times in the foot the worry for them is that not all of their choir may get to the polls.

  20. SandHills says:

    CT8, I usually have to take a double take with most posters who are so immersed in their own forest of political dogma they can”t see the trees of facts (or choose to ignore them).

    Your “except for select supporters” comment for example is kind of what I mean, when those so absolutely sure of their dogma just goes “one bridge too far” with hyperbole…what about Halliburton and so many other sole-source/non-competitive contracts lent out to support the war on terror during the Bush years? There has already been proven that over a billion dollars is known to have been simply lost – the same amount that GOP Senators refused to approve to spend on supporting veteran job training program last week.

  21. LeePHilI says:

    “CT8 says:
    Sep. 24, 2012 at 3:09 pm Hey John, is the middle class better off under Obama? Nope. The past is not the present. Why are middle class voters swinging to Romney?
    Dems destroy the economy, republicans set the wheels in motion for a recovery, then a dem takes over again and the cycle repeats.”

    More fabrications…..or a total ignorance for what is happening.

    As to “trickle down”…. when there is “trickle down” someone is the “pee-on”

    “CT8 says:
    Sep. 24, 2012 at 5:29 pm Chris, when did the Obama pass a budget?”

    Since when does a President pass a budget? Not only failing History and English…..Civics as well

  22. Pretty clear you’re not “undecided”, SandHills.

    Can we drop the artificial air of unbiased neutrality? I’ve not seen anything from you that would indicate you’ve ever been anything less than a loyal 0bama supporter masquerading as an independent. Never the slightest criticism of 0bama nor even nano-support for any of the Republican candidates through the course of this election cycle.

    Admit it… it’s okay.

    We don’t need another Joe Scarborough.

  23. SandHills says:

    Oh yeah, I am definitely decided NOW clams.

    Most of my comments have been more about pointing out regurgitated Fox News falsehoods than being pro-Obama.

    If you have read many of my posts I usually on the other side of LeeHill, Frankechrist, Tudddo, Publico, beerboy,….

    Which pretty much should alert you that the Romney-Ryan ticket is in deep trouble. As hard as it for me to swallow much of the ultra-liberal social programs, it is just too much for me to vote against my own interests to just “trust” that Romney will have a plan that can help the middle class – when his entire business career was more about self-interest and accumulation of wealth. And Ryan”s program of healthcare vouchers to replace medicare? Well that is some real voodoo to trust my old age to.

  24. Didn’t anyone hear him last night on 60 minutes he’s going to cut taxes but take away some deduction so in the long run the middle class will still pay the same isn’t that fixing things

  25. Sonofwashington says:

    Sandhill, you make some excellent points. But I have to take issue with you on one of the Republican’s favorite memes of “class warfare”. Their constant claim that the middle class is jealous of the “upper class” wealth is bogus. The real problem is the incredible skewing of wealth to the top 1% with a concurrent denigration of the standard of living for the middle class and a huge growth in the poverty class. There is a power elite of corportists who want to crush the unions, deny consumer rights, pollute with immunity, and strong-arm congress with their army of lobbyists to make ever more favorable laws, including huge subsidies and tax breaks.

    Clamato – Good job taking on the role of blasphemy police. Sandhills was obviously out of line by his audacity to disagree in any way with the ‘official party line’ particularly his failure to criticize Obama at every opportunity. He should be properly shunned and ostricized from the ‘cult of conservatism’ that dictates today’s Republican catechism.

  26. SandHills says:

    Sonofwashington, even clamato can’t cut my roots. I love my Chic-Fil-A way too much to buy into much of the liberal view of the world.

    I actually feel better about my sanity when I have to take hits from clams/CT8, maybe not as often as I get from beerboy/Frankie/LeeHill, but enough to know I have a free mind not encumbered by any fixed ideology.

  27. averageJose says:

    Sorry Sand, I didn’t read your post so I have no idea what your point was. I do know, however, that when a prog runs out of talking points they fall back on the “fox news” meme.

  28. Sow, how has BHO helped the middle class in the last 12 months? Quantify it. Income down. Real unemployment up. Taxes for Obamacare coming soon. More regulations, less small business. Coal gone (lots of middle class jobs and cheap energy).

    Oh, Julia will save you…

  29. bobcat1a says:

    In TEAspeak, class warfare is pointing out how one class has reaped all of the gains from our economy while the rest have stagnated. But in Romneyspeak, the stagnation is just laziness.

  30. averageJose says:

    Terrorists kill 4 Americans, Obama says it’s “bumps in the road.” Israeli concerns about Iranian nukes “noise.”

  31. Sonofwashington says:

    CT8 – Why do you confine your question to 12 months? Would that be the period of the most filibusters per month?

    President Obama has done a number of things for the middle class, to include continuation of tax breaks for them, extentions of unemployment insurance, a number of stimulus efforts to include the bail out of General Motors, incentives for new home and new car purchases, mortgage adustment programs, job training, and dozens of other efforts that the house passed only to be filibustered in the senate by obstructionist Republicans.

    But in the end, there can be no doubt that President Obama would serve the middle class and the vast majority of Americans far better than Mitt Romney who would continue to extend the very policies that already crush the middle class and increase the poverty level.

  32. LeePHilI says:

    “averageJose says:
    Sep. 24, 2012 at 9:15 pm Terrorists kill 4 Americans, Obama says it’s “bumps in the road.”

    As usual, the Right Wing Sound Machine is misrepresenting Obama’s quote and will try to repeat it thousands of times during the next 48 hours to make it true. Only one problem. It won’t be true.

    “But I was pretty certain and continue to be pretty certain that there are going to be bumps in the road because, you know, in a lot of these places the one organizing principle has been Islam.” — President Obama in an interview with “60 Minutes.”

    Now…did Pelley’s question have anything to do with the dead Americans or the particular incident where Americans were killed? Of course it didn’t.

    Misrepresenting President’s quotes? Shameful….no that’s not strong enough.

    “Liars”. There, much better.

  33. LeePHilI says:

    “CT8 says:
    Sep. 24, 2012 at 8:47 pm Sow, how has BHO helped the middle class in the last 12 months?”

    My counter question – What has Romney done to help middle class Americans in his entire career? NOTHING. Even his time in office as Governor of Massachusetts didn’t do diddly for the middle class, unless you count Romneycare, which under the name Obamacare, is a disaster.

    Romney’s entire career has been about displacing middle class wages. Yes….that includes Staples, which displaced middle class wages.

    The difference between Romney and Palin? Romney served his entire term as Governor.

  34. Sonofwashington says:

    Well said Lee. Echos of “You didn’t build that.” (Where Obama refered of course to the infrastructure, not an individual’s business.)

  35. LeePHilI says:

    Son….of course. The worst part is that they think we aren’t smart enough to know what they are doing.

    As to SandHills’ comments….I’m guilty as charged.

    I’m a liberal. A progressive. I want to see Americans take care of other Americans and not business interests in foreign countries. I find no problem using tax money to make sure our people eat and don’t die. I do have a problem with financing the next oil well that will produce profits for an offshore company that won’t even sell to Americans. If those values make me liberal….I’m guilty.

    With all that….I don’t have to misquote people and lie to make my points.

  36. SandHills says:


    – “I didn’t read your post”

    – but you can have an opinion that I have no talking points? Well that is right out of the Fox News playbook isn’t it?

    – same with the mantra about “bump in the road” when it was taken out of context.

    But back to my main point – which you didn’t read.

    The supporters of Romney on this forum (as with the Romney-Ryan campaign) is ONLY convincing to their fellow choir members – they have no arguments that have made any inroads into garnering more votes for their candidate than are already onboard (who would vote for a fill-in-the-name candidate if not Romney simply to vote against Obama). The GOP choir do not have enough votes to carry Romney into the WH. They have to convince those who base their vote on facts (which Romney is avoiding, until after the election) – even if the only fact that is relevant is that they would rather vote for the devil they know rather than the devil they don’t know.

    That is not just a talking point, it it a fact. Ignoring that fact, confident that Romney has all the votes he needs is fine by me.

  37. Sow, did he pay for those tax breaks? TAX BREAKS DURING WAR???!!! Criminal.

    You are all such hypocrites.

    Tax breaks to a group paying a 12% effective rate. But when Bush did it he was evil. Hypocrites.

    Bush saved GM.
    Bush ended the war in Iraq.

    Larry, Romney is incredibly successful. He was a moderate in Mass, left them with healthcare and great school. Balanced a budget. Showed leadership. Managed. BHO has done zero of that. Zero. Spent and talked to the ladies of the View. Ignored world leaders to hang out in Vegas. Skipped intel briefings.

    Obamacare taxes on the middleclass. Buying a house? Yup, he added a tax to your financing to pay for the payroll tax cut.

    The master of kicking the problem down the road. Unfortunately for four Americans, his strategy of throwing china’s cash and drone strikes at a problem do not always work…

  38. SandHills says:

    Lee, you haven’t completely pulled the curtain back on everything that goes with the general title of “liberal” have you?

    The values you listed, I fully agree with, and I am no liberal.

    But when we get into political correctness, like how we are now suppose to call Illegal (as in criminal) aliens “undocumented immigrants” that we are suppose to house, feed, provide medical care, and education (from K-12 up through college), well that is behind that curtain you are not pulling completely open, along with same-sex marriage, and legalizing marijuana.

    But those are values of the Democratic Party I have to swallow in order that “the devil I know is re-elected, rather than the devil I don’t know (well, other than the fact that this devil’s wife had a dressage horse in the Olympics that they got a $70K tax deduction for – and who would deny me a $14K deduction on my home mortgage interest).

  39. Sonofwashington says:

    Lee – to be fair, Romneycare was in fact, a very good thing for the middle class of Massachussetts. It has increased the health measures of the state in almost every respect while saving citizenry many thousands of dollars. Sad irony, Gov. Romney can’t bring up this singular acheivement because the conservative right will go nuts with his celebration of “socialism”. Interestingly enough, Obama leads in Romney’s home state by 24 points.

  40. Sandhill, Romney did not write that tax code.

  41. Sonofwashington says:

    CT8 – Let me get this straight. Bush, who started the illegal war in Iraq also ended it. And even though he gave across-the-board tax cuts in time of war and Obama targeted them to the struggling middle class, it’s OK because Obama is doing it during war too, except that Bush already ended the war, right?

    And Bush bailed out GM but the Republicans have fought Obama’s efforts to do that as well, and Romney would have let it go bankrupt. But that’s a plus for Obama ’cause he did what Bush did, right?

    And Romneycare in Mass. is great, but Obamacare for every citizen is bad, right?

    And whatever good things Obama may have attempted are meaningless because he spends too much time at the View, was apparently gambling in Vegas instead of meeting with world leaders, and skipped intel briefings. You forgot to mention his penchant for the basketball court, the golf course, and his dependency on the teleprompter, which cumulatively disqualify him for the presidency, right?

    In the end, America would just be a whole lot better off if Bush/Cheney could’ve served a 3rd term, right?

  42. CT8 – the reason the middle class in not better off today is 30+ years of trickle down has sent all the wealth to the top 10%.

    Tax cuts for the rich, no regulation of business = GOP policy and that is what has killed our economy.

    What little progress made to improve our economy is due to efforts by the Democrats.

    To send adults (defined as pro-American politicians) to DC we must first remove the un-American republicons and tpots from DC.

    CT8 – give your backside a rest and stop repeating GOP lies.

    Bush set the date, but show me one major republicon that publicly supported Obama adhering to that date.

    Where is Obama’s detailed plan – stuck in Congress that would rather say no.

    Presidents don’t pass budgets – Congress does. The difference between Bush and Obama is the record for most filibustered bills occurred while Obama was in the White House.

    Re NYT – there were no gains to lose thanks to Bush’s ineptitude as a CinC.

    TAX BREAKS DURING WAR???!!! Criminal – final a true statement – and Bush was the criminal who did it, then financed his unnecessary wars by borrowing thus doubling the national debt.

    Governor Romney flip-flopped and became Candidate Romney who now disavows his ‘moderate past’ claiming he was really as tried and true conservative.

    Romney says ‘elect me and see”.
    To which the zombie base cheers.
    Pelosi said “pass the bill to see”
    To which john the Boehner yells,

    Lyle – what branch of the military did you serve in?

    aJo – debts, like budgets, get created and passed by the Congress. To stop creating Terrorists – stop invading other countries, bring our troops home, and start building our nation.

  43. X, one again I have to commend you for a coherent, albeit nutty, post.

    Have you read anything recently on our decline in competiveness? You should. Then ask yourself why. Why can’t we manufacture here (middle class jobs)? Why can’t we fix our infrastructure (middle class jobs)? Why can’t we exploit our domestic energy (middle class jobs)?

    Hint- the ‘rich’ and trickle down have nothing to do with it. As you are looking around, find a current republican trying to enact “trickle down ” economics.

    How is BHO funding his wars? Oh, same as the guy before him. Where is his plan stuck in congress? Link? If you mean more stimulus with a few emotional tax hikes, that’s not a plan. Tax the rich 100% and you get 10 weeks of federal spending. Try again.

    Hey, see your boys in NY today hanging out with our enemy. Some real Americans.

    Good luck on your education!!!

  44. I have to admit that I have been more than a little surprised by Sandhills’ advocacy for Obama on these boards. Almost as surprising as blakeshouse’s advocacy for Universal, single payer, health coverage. And, I suppose, almost as surprising as when I agree with the more conservative voice here on certain issues (the privatization of alcohol retail sales is a more recent one that pops into my head).

    Goes to show ya – the labels of conservative/liberal only fit for those who insist upon fulfilling the stereotypes of those labels.

  45. menopaws says:

    If Romney wins–it will not be an election but a coup………..Voter suppression is NOT Democracy….CT8—Bush FAILED………..The fantasy world you live in is just so reality challenged that you might consider medication……….Your party has kept two sets of books for a very long time and wants to continue giving the shaft to those of us who can add and subtract………..rudy 1 is doing better” I have posted previously how we are doing very well also…….This “train wreck” was stopped by Obama and he has done a pretty fair job of keeping us on the tracks….so, blow off all the steam you need to. Your party FAILED this country economically and with a totally unnecessary war………FAILURE should NOT be celebrated……….Neither should liars….Frankly, Mr. Bush and Cheney should count themselves lucky they are not in the Hague being tried as war criminals………NOw, surprise everyone and just be quiet—your arguments are stale and your party is corrupt.

  46. LeePHilI says:

    “SandHills says:
    Sep. 24, 2012 at 10:03 pm Lee, you haven’t completely pulled the curtain back on everything that goes with the general title of “liberal” have you?”

    Well….I thought I’d just submit bite sized pieces. LOL

    You’d be amazed that I voted for Rob McKenna in 2008, if that is an indicator of conservative this time…..

    Labels don’t indicate all. I’m also a big supporter of veterans.

  47. LeePHilI says:

    “As you are looking around, find a current republican trying to enact “trickle down ” economics.”

    Some people just don’t pay attention.

    The answer is….”tax cuts for the job creators” and “all republicans in unison”

  48. tax cuts for job creators? You are talking about BHOs temp tax cuts that have not created jobs.

  49. averageJose says:

    I see meno is preparing for a Soetoro loss.

  50. Non partisan letters are so informative! The follow-on, supporting comments, do it justice.

    Is Romney rich? Yes. Is Obama rich. Yes. Are most in congress rich? Yes. Are most surrounding those rich people, rich? Yes. Do I want to be rich? Yes. Do you want to be rich or kept by the governing class?

  51. LeePHilI says:

    By the way, SandHills…to quote me:

    I want to see Americans take care of other Americans and not business interests in foreign countries. I find no problem using tax money to make sure our people eat and don’t die. I do have a problem with financing the next oil well that will produce profits for an offshore company that won’t even sell to Americans.

    Are those strictly liberal/progressive ideals?

  52. Sonofwashington says:

    CT8 – You are kind of all over the map on your fiscal policies. No one is suggesting that we tax 100% of the income of the rich (absurd strawman) but surely they should pay a greater share (>14%) than they are as well as corporations. That would go a long ways to addressing the deficit. And forgive me, but isn’t trickle-down (“supply side”) economics still the unending mantra of the Republicans and conservatives? “If we just let business go unregulated and the market work it’s will, all will be well”, right? Except that Reagan-Bush proved that that approach is disastrous for the middle class.

    BTW, even though American workers have increased productivity, their wages and benefits have been squashed while the corporations have shipped jobs overseas and kept a greater share of the profits for themselves. American labor can’t compete with overseas labor where they pay sub-survival wages, have no safety standards, and don’t concern themselves with pollution. NAFTA/CAFTA has proven to be a disaster for our middle class and if we don’t find a way to get living-wage jobs back to America, the middle class will continue to struggle and America will rot from its core.

    Of course we could impose tariffs (like other countries do) to restore American jobs and put them to work on our infrastructure and alternative energy sources to break our dependency on oil. Of course the Republicans would rather ship our jobs overseas and stick our citizens with the deficit bill while exempting the rich and corporations from those pesky taxes.

    Which approach do you think Mitt Romney will take?

  53. LeePHilI says:

    Son…..the real problem with our country is how we elect our leaders. Take the money out of the equation and see where the Mitt Romney-types would be in a majority wins election.

    Obama is the closest thing we’ve had to a middle class American in the White House for a long, long time.

    Limit campaigning to six months. Limit spending to $100,000 (random number, it could be less) Watch how quickly politics becomes local, which brings the middle class back to the forefront.

    There is no reason that our country, for all we say it is, should be holding elections where the winner is the highest bidder.

  54. old_benjamin says:

    Bill Clinton is a miserable draft-dodger who will never ever be elected president.

    Two terms indeed.

  55. Sow,

    No and most of the time.

    We tried the import tariff game once. How did that work out?

    Alternative energy just doesn’t work fiscally. Not even close. Make some sense. Until we allow manufacturing here (at a profit!) those prized middle class jobs will continue to go to China.

    Here is a way to get jobs back in America http://www.cnbc.com/id/49158696

  56. How did he get there in 08? That 3-1 spending ratio is quickly and conveniently forgotten. I am not saying he would not have won anyway, but BHO has not embraced limits. So Mitt has deeper pockets. Deal with it.

    Romney/Ryan 2012

  57. old_benjamin says:

    fc, was that you in that GEICO commerical with Brian Orakpo, or your twin sister?

  58. sarahsmith says:

    My goodness. I do find it amazing that those criticizing GOP talking points are using DNC talking points at the very same time. All of you need to look in the mirror at some point and realize the personal biases that are affecting you. By just watching John Stewart or MSNBC, you are only going to solidify your viewpoint which will mask any bias you may have. Watch Fox News or at least read an article or two from the opposing view which will give you the best perspective on what really is going on in the world. Sticking to one news organization is not the way to go.
    Personally I do not have much time to watch cable news so I read Fox News and take in a healthy dose of AP articles distributed by yahoo and msn. The only way I can get a clearer picture of what each side thinks about things like the Ambassador in Libya being murdered or on the presidential race.
    Before I go more in to deregulation, I would love someone to please explain to me how deregulation caused the financial crisis instead of everyone arbitrarily saying that it did. The only “deregulation” I saw was done by Bill Clinton himself with the Glass-Steagal Act. However, if you look at the banks that suffered the most during the crash (Bear Stearns & Lehman Brothers), they were not affiliated with depository institutions (which are what the bill allowed investment banks to do. If they had been, they may have survived. So that is out the window.
    One part of regulation that WAS enacted was the Community Reinvestment Act by Jimmy Carter and strengthened by Bill Clinton. It pressured banks that wanted to do business in all neighborhoods to accepted deposits from low-income and credit weak areas. And yes, Fannie and Freddie were huge in this game by bolstering the secondary market for mortgages and allowing applicants who would have never qualified otherwise to obtain mortgages.
    I will freely admit that there were banks that were greedy and tried to take advantage of this situation by credit default swaps, but tying it down to deregulation is completely dishonest. The melding of both private and public sector interests is what caused the issue and throwing more rules at it (Dodd-Frank) will not prevent another crash…just increase the severity of it.
    If this ever happens again we should just let all these banks fail. Propping them up again and again will only allow them to take more and more risks. If you think government officials can make better decisions than we are all in trouble and deserve what we vote for.

  59. Romney. He wants airplanes with windows that open. Magic underwear, open airplane windows and pixie dust. What could possibly go wrong? LMAO

  60. LeePHilI says:

    “Watch Fox News or at least read an article or two from the opposing view which will give you the best perspective on what really is going on in the world. Sticking to one news organization is not the way to go.
    Personally I do not have much time to watch cable news so I read Fox News and take in a healthy dose of AP articles distributed by yahoo and msn.”

    You’ve obviously not taken the time to figure out that FOX isn’t news at all, but you’ve found the time to speak negatively about MSNBC, although you claim to not have time to watch it.

  61. The GOP choir do not have enough votes to carry Romney into the WH. They have to convince those who base their vote on facts (which Romney is avoiding, until after the election) – even if the only fact that is relevant is that they would rather vote for the devil they know rather than the devil they don’t know.

    That is not just a talking point, it it a fact. Ignoring that fact, confident that Romney has all the votes he needs is fine by me.

    Either you’ve got the meme down pat, Sand, or you’ve completely bought into it.

    Either way, the mask is off.

  62. LeePHilI says:

    “We tried the import tariff game once. How did that work out?”

    Cite the instance and the outcome. You’re bluffing again.

  63. Hill, I’ll give you a hint. The Great Depression.

  64. LeePHilI says:

    Since Romney has enough votes to carry the election, I guess we can be spared the HITPAC tv ads making Obama into a Marxist Cannibal that eats fetus hearts.

  65. sarahsmith says:

    LeePHill – Where is the negativity in my post about MSNBC? I am not sure I said one thing that “put down” that cable news organization. If you followed the formatting of my post you would see the first sentence touched on people who like to like to make fun of others who use GOP talking points while at the same time use DNC talking points of their own. Thus I was speaking to those people and referenced MSNBC and John Stewart (both of whom are not known for being conservative) since those two are listed as the most watched amongst DNC voters for news.

    I then went in to generalities for both sides on trying to watch a multitude of news groups. Each one of us carries a bias and certainly love to watch or read something that solidifies our views, but it is still best to be aware of those biases.

    If fact, if anyone disparaged a news group you just did. While you may not agree with their primetime opine-ers, they do technically carry the news in the hours preceding them. Maybe my original post should have hit home a little harder in regards to watching a variety of news sources before forming you opinions.

  66. LeePHilI says:

    “CT8 says:
    Sep. 25, 2012 at 10:58 am Hill, I’ll give you a hint. The Great Depression.”

    As I said, you were bluffing. Now we know how badly you were bluffing. Conservative website trash.

    The simple answer – “The Great Depression was a global economic crisis that may have been triggered by political decisions (war reparations post-World War I), protectionism (Congressional tariffs on European goods) or by speculation (the Stock Market Collapse of 1929).” is more accurate, but places blame on two of the conservatives pets – war and market speculation, so let’s pretend those two issues didn’t exist.

  67. Do you want to be rich or kept by the governing class?

    False dichotomy.

    Do you want to eat hot dogs or be waterboarded?

    makes just as much sense as your question

  68. charliebucket says:

    I don’t watch MSNBC or John Stewart, never have. I also don’t watch FOX anymore. Why in the world anyone thinks you have to listen to both/multiple viewpoints of garbage television to form your political opinion is odd. Even more odd if you think talk radio is informative. yikes.

    How about we try to get our info from the actual candidate or by something resembling ‘first hand’?

    Note: I am not voting for Romney because of HIM, what his policies are, what his words are….not what I heard about him on TV or radio.

    BTW Lee, SOW…..you are really eating these guys alive on here. I don’t post much but I am reading. Thanks.

  69. sarahsmith says:

    Wow. We should get our information from the actual candidate? Are you telling me you actually believe what either Obama or Romney is saying? That is beyond telling. I now understand why the saying “drinking the kool-aid” came in to being.

    It is your prerogative if you don’t watch any of those sources, but many people on both sides do. Considering that politicians work directly through sleight of hand or outright lies, using a news source outside of the press-secretary Jay Carney (first-hand info…right? That is exactly what you meant by first hand), at least gives you information beyond the talking points.

    Either way, I could list a variety of news organizations and you would still say you don’t read or listen to any of them as well as play them off as non-viable news groups. However, I would rather not list every single one of them until I finally hit one that you agree with which is why I chose those most watched and read.

  70. averageJose says:

    Sarah, great post(s.

  71. averageJose says:


  72. averageJose says:
  73. averageJose says:


  74. averageJose says:

    I listened to what Obama said and watched what he did… it didn’t jibe.

  75. charliebucket says:

    sarah, you are twisting my words. I didn’t say that I was voting for someone because I believed what he/she says. I said I am NOT voting for Romney because of what he says, what he values and who he is.

    I do not form my political opinion of someone or of an issue by what talk radio or TV entertainers or 24/7 political pundits say. Not from a press secretary or anyone else either, nice try though.

    I think the reality is that people who think they are getting informed or educated by TV or radio are simply forming their OPINIONS based on the OPINIONS of someone else and on their spin. If that is what you call informed or if that makes so many people on both sides informed because so many on both sides do it, God help us all.

  76. MarksonofDarwin says:

    Just a few points that I keep seeing mis-represented everywhere:

    1) President Obama awarded Haliburton no-bid contracts.
    2) GM did go bankrupt. President Obama meddled in those proceedings and turned bankruptcy law on its head by putting non-secured creditors ahead of secured creditors.
    3) Romneycare in Mass. is so expensive, that price controls on medical providers was needed. It is Romney’s albatross, and will lose him this election.
    Please use Google. It really is a wonderful tool. I have grown tired of posting links that everyone ignores….

  77. MarksonofDarwin says:

    end bold

  78. MarksonofDarwin says:


  79. MarksonofDarwin says:

    Oh, I see…

    It’s AJ’s fault. I feel better!!!

  80. averageJose says:


  81. Frankenchrist says:

    Mitt Romney wants airplanes to have passenger windows that open. Wow, what an idiot. He probably wants a dog carrier on the top of his private jet, too.

  82. MarksonofDarwin says:

    Our President….you know, the guy who actually has the power, said this today:

    “The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam.”

    And the only thing Team Blue can come up with is something about a plane window???

    Good Lord…we’re all in deep doo here.
    Seriously…you guys really don’t care about our civil rights as long as Team Blue is in power.


  83. Hill, as your selective quote and no link showed, protective tariffs did contribute to the depression.

    What is your problem? Comprehension? Did I say it was the sole factor? Grow up.


    Interesting read. You may want to educate yourself before opening your trap. Do you also want protective tariffs? That article is a great example of what happens when govt tries to interfere with the free market.

  84. LeePHilI says:

    CT8…only after you are called out, do you then turn your tale.

    No…I don’t want protective tariffs. Lets let other countries do that to us and we’ll let Mitt give them our jobs also. :::sarcasm::::

    You are a child.

  85. LeePHilI says:

    As usual, the President’s words as misrepresented:

    “The future must not belong to those who target Coptic Christians in Egypt – it must be claimed by those in Tahrir Square who chanted “Muslims, Christians, we are one.” The future must not belong to those who bully women – it must be shaped by girls who go to school, and those who stand for a world where our daughters can live their dreams just like our sons. The future must not belong to those corrupt few who steal a country’s resources – it must be won by the students and entrepreneurs; workers and business owners who seek a broader prosperity for all people. Those are the men and women that America stands with; theirs is the vision we will support.

    The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam. Yet to be credible, those who condemn that slander must also condemn the hate we see when the image of Jesus Christ is desecrated, churches are destroyed, or the Holocaust is denied.>

  86. Test

  87. charliebucket says:

    lee thank you for the full quote. and for providing an example of what I was talking about a few posts back.

  88. Sonofwashington says:

    CT8 – If government does not regulate the “free market” the so-called “free market” will control us.

    A laissez faire market is Darwinian, where each competitor is striving to gain more and more of the market share. This is all well and good so long as they compete on a “level playing field”, but without referees (the government) the most ruthless competitor will eventually drive out the competition and gain a monopoly wherein the consumer can be readily exploited.

    The government is necessary to ensure fair trade and also that corporatons are not polluting the environment or providing harmful goods or services. Afterall, “free market” forces consider those pesky considerations as “cost centers” that cut into profits.

    America witnessed what the robber barons at the turn of the century did to exploit both workers and consumers while they amassed huge wealth for themselves. It was only the advent of the labor movement and Teddy Roosevelt’s willingness to take on the corporations that gave us a strong middle class and a means for a citizen to take on a corporation for negligence or malfeasance.

    Of course our rightist friends want to emasculate the government so that corporations have free reign to once again, exploit the worker and the consumer, all the while paying little or no taxes and shipping jobs overseas at will. In other words, taking full advantage of the American infrastruture to protect their assets but not having to pay a dime towards it. It is the Ayn Randian dream where greed and ruthlessness are to be revered, and democracy and liberty get tossed in the backwash.

    But your dreams may be well realized, with the Citizens United Case. It created “super people” out of corporations and puts them in the drivers seat in influencing the selection of legislative candidates as well as the laws that may impact them.

    But then, was not that the “original intent” of our founders that our “conservative” justices like to speak to, but ignore when it conflicts with their political agenda to further the power of corporation?

  89. So after an outright lie I am not allowed to set the record straight? Good job mods

  90. MarksonofDarwin says:


    Neon lights, a Nobel prize
    When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies
    You won’t have to follow me
    Only you can set me free…
    I exploit you, still you love me
    I tell you one and one makes three
    I’m the cult of personality

  91. We are the free market. It is not some group of men in tuxedos smoking cigars but people in sweatpants shopping at Walmart.

    While there are times where a monopoly actually helped the people (since AT&T was broken up costs to the consumer have risen), I (and the overwhelming majority of non-Ron Paul supporters) understand and advocate for a government role. Patents, safety, legal disputes, infrastructure all require govt.

    Corporations and their profit are owned by citizens. They are not an alien being but tax paying Americans.

    When the govt picks the winners, when elected officials interfere with innovation, we all lose.

    Stimulus is example A. Our economy is too diverse for govt to interfere without unknown 2nd and 3rd order effects.

    In the end of the day it comes down to pride in self. Can YOU make it without an unfair, govt handed advantage? Did you need the pol for a handout or a pol to keep the streets clean and our Nation safe?

  92. MarksonofDarwin says:

    See I gotta add one more:

    4) Citizens United did not grant personhood to corporations. That precedent was set over 100 years ago.


  93. How about ending this silly thread?

  94. now it is even more annoying!

  95. How did that happen? I intended to leave the italics on and they popped off!

  96. MarksonofDarwin says:

    I appreciate your trying bB.

    This thread is silly…and I’m just adding to it I’m afraid. Feeling a bit testy today.

    I blame AJ.
    He is the one that left the bold on so we are all shouting at each other at this point!

  97. MarksonofDarwin says:

    I do want to add that the President missed a golden opportunity to express to the UN & the world just how important our right to free speech is in this country.

    Instead, he rambled on about hurting others’ feelings…

    It’s more than a gaffe….there is a good argument to be made that all of this soft peddling on free speech will invite more riots in the future. We seriously appear weak with no principle too dear that we won’t equivocate.

  98. charliebucket says:

    the Pres. did mention how important free speech is if you read the whole transcript and not just a soundbite.

  99. Sonofwashington says:

    CT8 – Consumers put the demands on the market, but they are at the mercy of the market if there are not controls to keep the market competitive.

    And I remember AT&T when they controlled the market – “We don’t care. We don’t have to”.

    Corporations are legal entities with the singular reason for being of generating profits for their stockholders. That’s just fine, but the profit motive is almost always contrary to serving the public good, because such things as safety measures and keeping e-coli out of the hamburger cuts into the profit margin. I’m glad you seem to support a government role for safety, but so much of what I hear from your comrades is fewer and fewer regulations. Seems contradictory to me.

    The real problem with the advent of corporations as “people” and Citizens United is that corporations have been given ever more sway over the political and law-making process, far more than citizens can muster. In fact the Republican Party is a wholly owned subsidiary of the corporatists and they’ve got a big share of the Democratic Party as well. Our wonderful “conseravative” justices” have put American democracy subordinate to the corporate interests and we are in real danger of corporate oppression because we will soon have a governement that is powerless to combat the abuses of a power & profit hungry corporate elite.

  100. LeePHilI says:

    Cheryl, a teacher from Colorado, was asked to participate in a roundtable with Mitt Romney. In this video she shares her impression after talking with him and how her views on education are different than Mitt Romney’s:

    When I was asked to speak with Mitt Romney, it seemed like a very important thing to me, and I wanted to put a lot of careful thought into what I would say. So I went to the roundtable discussion very optimistic and interested in hearing what he had to say.

    When he sat down, one of the first questions he asked was “I understand there is a teacher here today, which one of you is a teacher?”

    I raised my hand, thinking that’s a good thing, he’s interested in education. But it wasn’t a good thing. I felt like his view was a little old-fashioned, and I was surprised by it. He went on to kind of lecture me about schools and how bad they are. He talked bad about the teacher’s union. He was talking about the importance of private schools and voucher systems.

    At one point, I said to him, “I have an answer for that.” And he said, “I didn’t ask you a question.”

    As usual, Mitt Romney only wants to hear himself speak. He doesn’t even attempt to keep his contempt for the working class hidden behind closed doors, dismissing Cheryl as if she is his hired help and not allowed to speak until told to do so.

    Anyone else wondering if Romney is deliberately trying to lose this election?

    – crooksandliars

  101. Sow, in your perfect world is it Venezuela-style socialism or communism? The larger the govt sector the slower growth, less rights.

    Hillbilly, education system is broken. Unions like Chicago’s show exactly what is wrong with the system. Fighting accountability tooth and nail, overpaid, and their kids go to private school. She was at a political event. She is so used to watching dems kiss union backside that is what she expected.

  102. MarksonofDarwin says:

    Mentioning the first amendment and explaining it are two different things.

    As it is, our President presented a weak argument for free expression. He presented it in such a way as to imply that we in the US never offend people with differing views. That we have sinned in the past, but in the future, nobody will ever be offended. It’s nonsensical.

    That’s my take after reading the entire thing. Long before it was posted here…but I do appreciate the posting.

    If the past president Bush (R) had made this identical speech, or even a fantasy future Romney (R) uttered this bit of apologentia, I would be just as outraged. The only difference between Obama (D) and the alternate scenario?….I would still be outraged, but all Obamabots would be apoplectic.

    And that’s why it’s so very hard to take any of them seriously….

  103. MoD – your outrage seems misplaced on this one. It is, as you have written, based upon what you have determined the President’s speech implied – not what was actually said.

    Now – as far as being outraged about what someone actually said, there is the audio tape of Ryan’s speech to his fellow sociopathic Rand disciples:


  104. LeePHilI says:

    “education system is broken”


    “She was at a political event”

    Funny, she thought it was an education roundtable. I guess she didn’t ask Romney why he was REALLY there…..

    “Unions like Chicago’s show exactly what is wrong with the system”

    Yeah, can you imagine those union people wanting the pensions that they paid into all these years???? Maybe we need to allow banks to not insure their depositers as well….

    Convulsive, you need to educate yourself on the issues before spewing your silly republican talking points.

  105. MoD, Sarah, good stuff ladies!

    I realize you are both a bit less partisan than I, but your ability to use the powers of reason and objectivity to paint and frame the overt intolerance of many of the lefties here is precious stuff.

    Thanks for that.

    PS, MoD, I’ve long argued that 0bama’s is a cult of personality, thanks for the link. But I would simply add that vampires have no reflection, and cannot see the light of day.


  106. Almost forgot, vampires also have a specific aversion to the sign of the cross.

  107. charliebucket says:

    MOD seems you are putting words under the microscope simply trying to find fault now. The Pres had a diplomatic, firm, good speech to the UN and talked about the value of free speech and about a lot of other things Americans value and it is not good enough for you because: he didn’t say it right?…. blah blah blah…. plueeeze. it doesn’t matter what the Pres does or says, it will never be good enough for you. it also doesn’t seem to bother you that you put a solitary line from the speech up and destroyed the President over it when it was taken completely out of context and nothing but a soundbite.

    Really? That’s dishonest. Your whole argument is simply dishonest fault finding and criticizing. Not based in reality or on fact. You would make a good talk show host.

  108. averageJose says:

    I sure hope Madonna leaves her clothes on…

  109. That is one thing we can agree upon.

  110. MarksonofDarwin says:

    bB & CB,

    Of course I was stating my opinion. That’s all you’ve got on this subject as well…your opinion. It’s puzzling that anyone is put off by the fact that I quoted one line. I’m thrilled that the entire paragraph was posted right after that. It simply drove my point home farther.

    He explained the first amendment, and said many things that I agree with. But to go on and claim that the future holds a world where nobody will blaspheme another religion is insane & dangerous to free expression. There will always be people who hold obnoxious views about other religions. WE understand that the first amendment is in place to protect those same obnoxious people….but his audience does not. In fact, they are trying to enact blasphemy laws. He may have been just trying to extend an olive branch, but really screwed up what was until then a very good speech.

    You guys think he did a grand job….and I do not. That’s the long and short of it.

    It’s also puzzling that a naked Madonna would temporarily ease tensions between bB & AJ, but I’m sure stranger thing have happened!

  111. MarksonofDarwin says:


    Sarah is much more eloquent than I am, but thanks.
    Glad you like the song too….proof that there was at least some good music produced in the 80s!

  112. charliebucket says:

    I am not ‘put off’ that you quoted the solitary line MOD, I am simply pointing out that you posted one line completely out of context and proceeded to build a case for your views based on something whose meaning is completely different when taken in context and you, thusly, spread half truths. It is manipulative and dishonest (and rampant behavior in this country). IMO.

  113. MarksonofDarwin says:

    Ya know, I find it amusing that you’re so hung up on how I presented the president’s quote….and I DID get the quote correct. You can’t seriously believe that it changed the meaning one bit to add the rest of the paragraph, can you?

    Anywho….I guess since you’re reduced to picking nits, and attacking my character, instead of addressing the entire paragraph I wrote explaining my reasoning, that means you got nothin’….

    Dishonest indeed…..oh the irony!!!

  114. CT8 – hard to be competitive when your job got sent overseas.

    No trickle down – what would you case tax cuts for the rich?

    bBoy – if not Obama we get Romney and the Nation is doomed.

    Romney/Ryan 2012 = USA doa 2013.

  115. xring – while I believe that Romney/Ryan would hasten the decline of our country – and there are real risks that the Not Sees don’t see the parallels between our situation and that of the Weimar Republic – I can’t allow myself to indulge in the hyperbolic hysteria that seems to grip BOTH sides about how Clinton/W/Obama/Romney/et al are the equivalent of Hitler and are going to destroy this country if we don’t stop them now.

    I must note that I also think that Obama is not going to prevent the decline of our nation – his enthusiastic embrace of the decline of civil rights for the Security State demonstrates this.

    As a resident of Idaho my vote against Mitt will be totally symbolic anyway so I am going to vote against both of them – Jill Stein, Green Party.

  116. charliebucket says:

    MOD you do not seem capable of understanding my point or even grasp that you are being dishonest. I bet you go around misquoting the context when the President said “you didn’t build that”. Writing the correct words that were spoken is not the same as the correct context. it is not nitpicking either. it is the difference between the truth and a lie. Either you are truly ignorant of language and usage and context or what you (collective Obama haters) are doing is dishonest and manipulative.

    good luck, either way.

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