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ISLAM: Is Arab video insult or observation?

Letter by Arne Herstad, Gig Harbor on Sep. 20, 2012 at 4:15 pm with 54 Comments »
September 20, 2012 4:15 pm

When Arab chronicler Ibn Fadlan cursed the Vikings as “the filthiest of God’s creatures,” he meant it as an observation, not an insult. But it took the Swedes more than 700 years to outrun that curse. Now, if you drop a gum wrapper in Goteborg, your peer-molded conscience will drive you back in the dark of night to retrieve it. Even Norwegians have running water and bathe at least once a week.

But outrunning a prophecy is more problematic. Chronicled by Moses himself, God says the descendants of Ishmael “Will (also) become a great nation” (Genesis 17:20). That’s the good part. It’s the other part that presents the problem: “He shall be a wild ass of a man; his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him” (Genesis 16:12).

Intractable, wild, undomesticated. (I’d add iconoclastic to the mix, a trait found in my own tribe, the Norse.) But millions of Arabs have outrun this prophecy. How they’ve managed that is plain enough. So what if one of them made a bad movie trailer? His sense of justice was violated in his home country and by his own people. Hath not an Arab eyes?

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Leave a comment Comments → 54
  1. Frankenchrist says:

    Pure gibberish.

  2. Sonofwashington says:

    Help me out here, Arne. Am I do understand that Ibn Fadlan had observed enough of all of “God’s creatures” to make an objective “observation” that Vikings were the “the filthiest” of all?

    Am I further to assume that you are citing Genesis as an objective source for the origins of civilizations? I only mention that because it’s bit lacking on the origins of the universe.

    Also are you equating Arabs to Muslims or Muslims to Arabs? And wasn’t the fellow who made a bad movie trailer a Coptic Christian?

    Clarity please.

  3. LeePHilI says:

    Sumyungboi is forgetting that Christians like to murder doctors with whom they disagree and will ignore the wrongs of a sect of their kind that killed black people for the crime of being black.

    A film on FOX that couldn’t show more than a couple hundred people speaks for 1.5 billion?????? Yeah, that’s rational.

  4. sumyungboi says:

    Can’t have it both ways, lee. On the one hand, you excoriate Christians for murdering doctors and killing blacks. On the other hand, you excuse muslims because so few are involved.

    While I’ve pointed out your hypocrisy, I’ll add that your premise was flawed to begin with. I don’t recall any Christian celebrating Tillman’s death, and the only Christian that I heard express anything close was Coulter, who said that she would not mourn his death. I’m not aware of any Christian sect that condones the KKK. For perspective, there have been riots and murders and mayhem in the middle east and north Africa for a week now over a perceived slight (which is BS to begin with) of their religion. You’re trying to equate a mosquito bite to a disembowelment, and your reference to Fox is just a hoot. Are you saying that every other network simply ignored it? How fair and balanced of them. :)

  5. Christians like to murder doctors with whom they disagree…

    Well… it is easier than getting a second opinon under 0bamacare.

    Beyond maximal hyperbole. You’re outdoing yourself, Larry.

    … and will ignore the wrongs of a sect of their kind that killed black people for the crime of being
    black.

    Uhhm… if you substitute “democrats” for “sect” you would have something there, Larrs. And yes, the KKK were democrats.

    You better read-up on the Underground Railroad.

    http://freedomcenter.org/freedom-forum/index.php/faith-freedom/faith-underground-railroad-cincinnati-regions-contributions-struggle-freedom/

    HTH

  6. the3rdpigshouse says:

    The video is the correct portrayal of whack-job religious fanatics!!

  7. sumyungboi, how do you justify your sweeping generalization that all Muslims are intolerant?

  8. sumyungboi says:

    lindeee, when was the last time a bunch of Christians or any religion other than islam go to their weekly gathering to have their priests or pastors or minister of whatever type whip them into a hateful frenzy to send them out to burn things and cause trouble? Doesn’t happen. Some people do dumb things in the name of their religion, but not per the instruction of their religious leaders. Islam is different, all over the world, muslim religious leaders foment hatred, and yes, it happens here, too. If you had any idea how ridiculous American muslims think you people are ..

  9. LeePHilI says:

    “Can’t have it both ways, lee. On the one hand, you excoriate Christians for murdering doctors and killing blacks. On the other hand, you excuse muslims because so few are involved.”

    Au contrair…..I was using your methodology to illustrate how, if a handful of Muslims are “all Muslims”, then a handful of Christians are “all Christians” (using “all” as universal).

    You almost got it. Clam missed it by a mile, but that’s nothing new.

    The video is the correct portrayal of whack-job religious fanatics!!

    Strange…..I didn’t recognize any of the Planned Parenthood protestors

    “the KKK were democrats”,

    Yeah….and the “democrats” fought against Civil Rights in the 1960s.
    Now, everyone that passed history in school knows that what we are really talking about are the “Dixiecrats” who pretty much ceased to exist after Johnson signed Civil Rights legislation. They joined the Republican Conservatives, who were more to their liking….and are still there today. No wonder the Cons are embarrassed enough to try to pass them off on the Democrats. Try to find me a KKK member in the Democratic Party today. Yep, they still exist and even have websites

    I quote:

    “There is a race war against whites. But our people – my white brothers and sisters – will stay committed to a non-violent resolution. That resolution must consist of solidarity in white communities around the world. The hatred for our children and their future is growing and is being fueled every single day. Stay firm in your convictions. Keep loving your heritage and keep witnessing to others that there is a better way than a war torn, violent, wicked, socialist, new world order. That way is the Christian way – law and order – love of family – love of nation. These are the principles of western Christian civilization. There is a war to destroy these things. Pray that our people see the error of their ways and regain a sense of loyalty. Repent America! Be faithful my fellow believers. ”

    National Director of The Knights, Pastor Thomas Robb

    Someone also needs to bone up on The Army of God, but I’m not going to do everyone’s homework for them…..

  10. LeePHilI says:

    “when was the last time a bunch of Christians or any religion other than islam go to their weekly gathering to have their priests or pastors or minister of whatever type whip them into a hateful frenzy to send them out to burn things and cause trouble?”

    See my quote from the KKK Grand Wizard.

    When did you see Islamics at their weekly gathering?

  11. Yeah….and the “democrats” fought against Civil Rights in the 1960s.

    Can’t argue that.

    My recommendation is back-peddle and wallpaper, Larry, hundreds of yards of… oh, never mind, I see the decorator has already been here.

  12. bobcat1a says:

    Just curious here. Exactly what percentage, do you suppose, of Muslims have ever engaged in a riot for any reason? Yet, “Muslims, on the other hand, are intolerant and have no place within a modern society”, at least according to syboy.

  13. Sonofwashington says:

    You are absolutely right, Clamato. The southern democrats (known as Dixiecrats) did indeed fight the civil rights act. Are you aware of Nixon’s “Southern Strategy” where he sought to bring all those the anti-civil rights folks into the Republican party. And that’s where most of the civil rights opponents are now.

    To be clear, that’s not too say that all Republicans are racists, but almost all (if not all) racists are Republicans.

  14. averageJose says:

    Talk about false premise AND false equivalency.

    How many abortion doctors have been murdered by a Christian? (hint:7 or 8)
    How many of those murderers did so at the behest of a Christian church or body? (0)


    The muslim brotherhood’s credo – “Allah is our objective; the Quran is our law, the Prophet is our leader; Jihad is our way; and death for the sake of Allah is the highest of our aspirations.”

  15. averageJose says:

    LOL… 7 or 8 (not sure where the happy face came from) :)

  16. Pecksbadboy says:

    Did any of you see the film?????

  17. Pecksbadboy says:

    Piggy, did you see it?

  18. NOSUCHLUCK says:

    The movie was offensive and false.

    As to the generalizations somehow being fair simply because some Muslims have done evil things and the rest aren’t making enough protest about it. You all need to rethink how many times various Christian or Jewish clergy (Luther, Robertson, Jackson, Jim Jones that Quran burning pastor Jones, the leader of Westboro Baptist) have said foolish or inflammatory things and most just say “Oh well, that is just (the other guys, the Catholics, the nutsy fundies, born agains) and dismiss it. That’s not YOU, right? You generally are not protesting THEM. So, when a Muslim or clergyman says something dumb, and every Muslim doesn’t speak up loudly about it, somehow that means they are all complicit? Why? If anyone paid attention, real Muslim leaders from Al Azhar, the Muslim Brotherhood, Imam Faisal, CAIR and Muslims all over the world, have been condemning violent response to that movie even while they object to the movie itself as offensive. The media reality is that people who make the most noise and are the LEAST typical get the most attention, and the media doesn’t bring your attention to the majority. Out of nearly 100 MILLION Muslims in Egypt there were a few hundred protesters. Even fewer who actually breached the walls of the embassy. This is NOT all Muslims. Many are angry about the movie (I live in Egypt now, I know this), yet, more than 99% are not protesting at all. The infinitesimal percentage that are, are doing so peacefully and only a tiny fraction of the tiny fraction has resorted to violence.

    So, if you are going to judge all Christian character by Westboro Baptists, then you can judge all Muslims by the ones you see in the news making trouble.

  19. averageJose says:

    I’ll bet not one person here saw it. I bet none of those muslims saw it either. Finally, finally, Obama’s people are admitting it was an organized terror attack.

  20. The Bible is once again being used to justify vile bigotry. You would think that antisemitism, justification of slavery and that whole mark of Cain thing, treating of women as chattel, etc. would be enough but NO, the “Christians” have to add Islamophobia to the list.

    I would think that God would start getting annoyed with the way his followers keep twisting his words to hate.

  21. Eohippus says:

    Sonofwashington:

    On “clarity”: I ran this letter past my wife, and if she understood it, the rest of you can, too. But since you asked, I’ll answer your questions.

    #1) I can’t answer for Ibn Fadlan. He said what he said, and we know of it because he wrote it down. You and I ought to know a figure of speech when we see it, and weigh it in light of its target audience.

    #2) Genesis says what it says. What it says about the future is verifiable. It’s a fact, for instance, that Jews and Arabs are alive and with us at this very hour, trying to outrun certain prophetic imperatives. If the future can be told us, then how much more the past? Which would be harder, in your view?

    #3) Did I mention the words “Muslim” or “Copt”? No. But it’s implied in the circumstance of the man who made the movie. I assumed the reader’s background in the facts, and that he would be able to sort this out himself.

  22. Eohippus says:

    Beerboy:

    Who are you talking to? Did you understand the letter? Maybe you’re addressing the responses. But if you didn’t understand the letter, what do you have to weigh the reponses with?

  23. averageJose says:

    Christians have moved well beyond Genesis… muslims (at least an extremely large number of them) however, are still stuck in those ancient times.

    It’s not really a phobia when you take them at their word. Are you sure the words of the koran or the muslim botherhood have been twisted to hate or if they say what they mean.

  24. … he sought to bring all those the anti-civil rights folks into the Republican party. And that’s where most of the civil rights opponents are now.

    To be clear, that’s not too say that all Republicans are racists, but almost all (if not all) racists are Republicans.

    LMAO, ding, ding, ding, ding – winner!

    Time to get out of the water. The little Larry hyperbole sand shark’s been chased off by a tiger.

    Who’s next? Which predictable fabulist, here, will step up next to out-do Son.

    Can you guys possibly dream up any more inane, preposterous postulations to put forth? (Never mind, considering the sources… )

    Geez.

  25. Uhmm, bB, if you… uh-hum, “understood” Eohippus’ 6:11 post, you’d realize that he wrote the Letter.

    HTH

    And, by the way, he seems as puzzled by your taking from his letter that “the Bible is once again being used to justify vile bigotry” as I.

    But while you earn a question mark, you don’t win the kewpie doll for out-hyperboling Larry and Son… yet.

  26. Uhmm, bB, if you… uh-hum, “understood” Eohippus’ 6:11 post, you’d realize that he wrote the Letter.

    Snarky….and disconnected from reality there Clamat0. As Eophippus’ 6:11 post followed my 5:42 post and I haven’t responded to him, your “uh-hum” doesn’t make sense. btw – I did understand from Eophippus’ post that he was the author of the letter – I didn’t need your prompt.

    Eophippus – just because your wife, who probably understands you better than anyone else on this planet, understood the intent of your letter doesn’t mean that the rest of the readers will, or that your letter was well-written. Since you have written to SonofWashington and to me upbraiding each of us for not comprehending your intentions it is clear that your letter wasn’t as clear as your wife thought it was.

    And, since your tone was one of condescension I will note that when my college students don’t understand what I have shared with them it is my role, not to criticize them, but to reevaluate the way I have communicated – as clearly it wasn’t effective.

    AND, SonofWashington has demonstrated that he is one of the most literate, well-read, concise posters currently participating on these boards. If you have not communicated to either of us effectively, it is hard to escape the conclusion that your letter wasn’t clear.

  27. NOSUCHLUCK, once more with the moral equivalency argument.

    Is it really necessary to again point out the fact that the level and frequency of violence perpetrated in the world by islamists, in the name of Islam, far outstrips that of any other religion?

    No one should doubt that the majority of non-muslims in America want to believe that this behavior is not condoned by a like majority of muslims. But citing condemnations by the likes of the Muslim Brotherhood and the apologist group, CAIR, is hardly comforting.

    Excluding 9/11, I cannot remember seeing one LTE or comment submitted by a Muslim in this forum, condemning the actions of the islamists who are responsible for countless acts of violence around the world over the last decade. I have seen many, many such condemnations of acts by the self-proclaimed Christians you describe, posted by Christians here.

    We in the US, as in much of the Western world, are currently hamstrung by a foolhardy official policy of political correctness, so it has to be up to the individuals in the muslim world to stop this recurring insanity.

    So far I’n not impressed with the lack of effort.

  28. Wow, that’s a neat trick – someone’s post seems to have disappeared.

  29. sumyungboi says:

    beerboy: “The Bible is once again being used to justify vile bigotry”

    Wow, and that contention has to do with this letter and replies because ..?

    And to the rest of you who blind yourselves to islam because you hate jews and wasp Americans, take a look around the world. Yeah, but stuff like that happens whenever [place leftists name here] offends Christianity. Right.

  30. SandHills says:

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Even those with more knowledge and experience to back up their opinions have to accept the ignorance and intolerance of others who are offering opinions out of their established beliefs (political, religious, moral, or other).

    Having lived and worked in the Middle East for a number of years I learned that at the root of Islam is the absolute belief in every word of the Koran. Read the Koran. Read every word.

    Go and experience life (spend a year or two in Riyadh, nor Dubai) under Sharia Law.

    Now some of you might have some insight to offer an opinion that speaks of some understanding of the subject rather than rehashing your ingrained political/personal dogma.

    The letter writer is on the right track – regardless of those who are always out to argue/defend their own political dogma, whatever the subject.

  31. This just in NOT FROM FOX but, alas from NBC!

    “Protests by tens of thousands of Pakistanis infuriated by an anti-Islam film descended into deadly violence on Friday, with police firing tear gas and live ammunition in an attempt to subdue rioters who hurled rocks and set fire to buildings in some cities.”

    Please note, “tens of thousands” and of course one wonders who among that throng has actually seen the film that supposedly sparked this violence, despite the fact that the film is nothing more than a scapegoat, a vehicle to justify this rage.

    Perhaps there IS something behind the foreshadowing recorded in Genesis?

    When a Jim Jones or a KKK Supreme Knight or whatever the he!! they call themselves is able to provoke tens of thousands of Christians to murder and maim in the streets, get back to me.

    Meanwhile, I too await comments from Muslims decrying this conduct, and I’d really like to hear someone from the Whitehouse call this what it actually is. Obama had no choice but to admit that the murders last week in Libya were premeditated, planned attacks on the U.S. When do you think he might have the courage to speak plainly about the rest of this? Not before the election, that’s for dang sure.

  32. Frankenchrist says:

    People arguing Islam -vs- Christianity is like a bunch of bespectacled nerds with and pocket-protectors debating Star Trek -vs- Star Wars.

  33. averageJose says:

    BeerBoy hypocritically whines since your tone was one of condescension.

  34. MyBandito says:

    Sandhills- “regardless of those who are always out to argue/defend their own political dogma, whatever the subject.”

    That’s just about everyone. Except you and me.

  35. Must get lonely in your ivory tower, ‘dito.

  36. MyBandito says:

    Clamato- Aren’t you the one who expects everyone to see the humor in your comments? Was that humor?

  37. Sarcasm.

  38. “This just in NOT FROM FOX but, alas from NBC!

    “Protests by tens of thousands of Pakistanis infuriated by an anti-Islam film descended into deadly violence on Friday, with police firing tear gas and live ammunition in an attempt to subdue rioters who hurled rocks and set fire to buildings in some cities.”

    This just in, Not from NBC, but Fox News: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/09/21/libyans-storm-ansar-al-sharia-compound-in-backlash-attack-on-us-consulate/

  39. Eohippus says:

    Beerboy & SonofWA:

    Sorry for the appearance of “condescension”. It comes with haste. I know you guys are smart. If every posting had to be filtered through the oppositions of lawyers, scribes and pharisees (i.e. the ‘educated’), none of us would write anything. If I anticipated and acted upon every whiff of opposition, explaining myself with circles and arrows and extra paragraphs, who would be able to read it? The point of my letter is simple, and summed up in the last sentence: “Hath not an Arab eyes?” In other words, he’s a human being with a human’s desire for justice. If I cut him, will he not bleed? I’m inviting comparison with the “justice’ of those who would have his head. This is my apology for not having made that clear enough.

  40. Star Trek -vs- Star Wars. </i.
    :-)

    Eohippus – I always run my business emails and writing past my wife before submitting – but here I shoot from the hip, sometimes without carefully re-reading what I am responding to.

  41. end italics

  42. whitecap says:

    All you regulars are nothing short of pathetic. How can you take a letter which Frankenchrist, in the first post, correctly labeled as “jibberish” and turn in into whatever waste of time you’ve turned it into. And no, I haven’t read all your posts. What a collosal waste of time that would be. This is how you dopes spend a nice Saturday? Geez.

  43. Ehill, will those protests bring back the 4 dead Americans?

    Whitecap, feel free to go away. Anyone that respects the opinion of FC is beyond hopeless.

  44. MyBandito says:

    “…..feel free to go away?????

    Just who do you think you are?

  45. averageJose says:

    LOL, L@rry Hill of Oly made a prediction one week ago that, come (last) Monday, there would be 6 or 7 new monikers from righties inferreing they would be banned. All I’ve seen are new lefty monikers.
    Kooky.

  46. “Ehill, will those protests bring back the 4 dead Americans?”

    Sorry to burst your hate-fueled fantasy that all Muslims are the same and that they all hate America.

  47. Perhaps Pakistanis are getting tired of being shot at by drones….

  48. averageJose says:

    … fired by Obama.

    Obama, Obama, we are all Osama

  49. So you are saying that our President shouldn’t be using military force? Or that he should be loved by radical Islamists? A little unclear of what your continued quoting of a chant by the radical enemies of the US is supposed to prove.

  50. averageJose says:

    Didn’t Barry promise hope and change? Didn’t he promise the world would love us again?

  51. Sorry to burst your hate-fueled fantasy that all Muslims are the same and that they all hate America.

    The straw man said, adding “but in fact it’s Christians who are all the same and hate my America. Christians all want to take over the country by imposing Christian laws and expelling non-Christians. It should be obvious to all, given the number of the violent acts perpetrated by them against the US and non-Christians worldwide and in this century alone, that they are America’s enemies, not militant islam!”

    Figured “alfalfa” could use an infusion of fresh straw. He’s got nothing without it.

  52. I didn’t say anything of the kind, Clammie. Take your scurrilous lies elsewhere.

  53. Wow scurrilous. Figured out how to use your thesaurus, eh’?

    Now see if you can find another word for straw… man.

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