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ECONOMY: U.S. risking another depression?

Letter by Ora Clark, Federal Way on Sep. 12, 2012 at 1:36 pm with 75 Comments »
September 12, 2012 1:45 pm

Re: “Moody warns of downgrade” (TNT, 9-12).

My first action after reading the article was to send a letter to each of our members of Congress asking them the question, “Is this what you want to happen?”

If you thought the recession following the downgrade by S&P in 2008 was bad, beware of the one following a downgrade by Moody’s.

But I really must take issue with the reporter who referred to the recession of 2008-2009 as the “Great Depression.” The real “Great Depression” occurred during the 1930s. I know. I lived through both, and  there is no comparison.

Compared the 1930s, this last recession – and we aren’t out of it yet – was a piece of cake. Another downgrade now would certainly take us back to the situation of the real “Great Depression”!

Leave a comment Comments → 75
  1. menopaws says:

    To listen to some of the whiners on this blog, you wouldn’t know it!!! I wasn’t around during the Depression, but I do remember my parents talking about it…..My Father telling me about my Grandmother feeding hobos at the back door, because they had a farm and had food……..She thought it was her duty to feed those who were hungry……..A lot different from today’s crowd who begrudge children subsidized breakfasts and lunches at public schools……..Not the same kind of character or integrity of the Greatest Generation for sure. They endured the Depression, marched off to war and still kept their heads. This doom and gloom crowd whines about gas prices, home prices and jobs that don’t pay them enough…..and, their problems are always someone else’s fault….Yep–not any heroes in this bunch!…..Thanks for your letter–it nailed it from the perspective of someone who lived it……

  2. LeePHilI says:

    Maybe this time, the Republicans won’t play around with the debt ceiling issue…

  3. Meno talking about personal responsibilty is priceless.

    Lar, if BHO keep his campaign promises we would not be having this conversation.

  4. “the recession following the downgrade by S&P in 2008″

    I hate to interrupt a perfectly good rant with anything inconvenient like facts, but the sad (for you) fact is that the recession started in December 2007, and the downgrade didn’t happen until 2011.

  5. LeePHilI says:

    “if BHO keep his campaign promises we would not be having this conversation.”

    I’ll bite. Show me a direct quote from Barack Obama where he said that we’d be able to pay down the debts from George W. Bush (who doubled the debt) and you’ll have a valid complaint.

    You’ll note I’m letting Daddy Bush and Reagan off the hook on this.

    Oh and remember….the debt ceiling is just authorizing Congress to pay the bills already run up….oh and the first two years of “Obama Spending” was a budget from the Bush Administration.

    I’ll be looking for your answer.

  6. LeePHilI says:

    Anyone that concludes that progressives/liberals don’t know anything about personal responsibility isn’t exercising the personal responsibility of looking up the facts to that assertion.

    They are just relying on some right wing blog to give them sentences to spew.

  7. CT8 – if the GOP members of Congress had not obstructed every bill Obama requested we would not be having this discussion.

  8. LeePHilI says:

    I’m guessing that CT is looking for the right wing website with “cute responses to rational questions about the debt”

  9. Just a video of Obama speaking. No “context” issues.

    Go away Hill.

  10. Dave98373 says:

    “Maybe this time, the Republicans won’t play around with the debt ceiling issue…”

    When Obama took office, the Demorats had control of BOTH houses and they were too busy trying to push Obamacare rather than deal with the budget and existing crisis at the time. Nearly four years later (and after trillions spent on failed stimulus), America is facing another downgrade, another economic disaster…all while our marines and US Ambassadors are murdered due to Obama’s failed foreign policy.

  11. Why are conservatives so stupid? The S&P downgrade happened August 5, 2011.

    Since the downgrade, GDP has been up all three consecutive quarters!!!!

    As far as I could tell, it was a ho-hum event.

  12. We got lucky. Europe’s implosion saved us from the damage. There is no other place to invest in nation debt.

  13. menopaws says:

    Give CT8 a break…Speaking of personal responsibility—how about Romney’s behavior yesterday???????? He managed to anger most of the ELECTED Republicans in Congress who treated him like he was a carrier of the Ebola virus after his foreign policy “adventure” yesterday………..Your candidate managed to humiliate himself and his party in a time of American tragedy………I am sure those grieving families really appreciated his grasp of the situation yesterday………I feel sorry for all of you supporters—your empty suit really proved he is NOT Presidential material yesterday…….
    One last thing–we pay our bills on time, live our lives and don’t BLAME anyone else for our problems or mistakes…….That is what personal responsibility means….My parents did it, we do it and our kids were raised with the family mantra….don’t whine about it, fix it………So, CT8, you have much bigger problems than slamming me today…good luck with your defense of Mr. Romney–luck is all you got!

  14. It is true that President Obama’s promise to cut the federal budget deficit by half during his first term did not specifically address the national debt. It is also quite disingenuous to somehow infer that this campaign promise, if kept, would have had no effect on the national debt. Had the promise been honored the debt would not have reached $16 trillion.

    It might also be wise to consider that the federal budgets during the early years of the present administration were the product of a Democrat controlled House and Senate. Today and for the past three years we have a govenment that doesn’t even have a budget but relies instead upon a series of ‘continuing resolutions’.

    There is quite enough blame to go around here but fools on both sides of the issue appear to be satisfied with pointing fingers while nothing is accomplished. A downgrade of our nation’s credit rating by Moody’s would indeed have a serious effect on the direction of our econony.

  15. The ONLY way one can justify voting for Mitt is to completely ignore foreign policy and the role as Commander in Chief.

    The last time we voted for a business candidate with NO foreign policy experience we suffered the worst attack on American soil.

  16. averageJose says:

    How’s the community organizer working out for ya?

  17. Frankenchrist says:

    The last time we voted for a moronic draft-dodger with NO foreign policy experience we suffered the worst attack on American soil.

  18. BeerBoy wrote: The ONLY way one can justify voting for Mitt is to completely ignore foreign policy and the role as Commander in Chief.

    The last time we voted for a business candidate with NO foreign policy experience we suffered the worst attack on American soil.
    _______________________________________________________

    The only way one can justify voting for Barack is to completely ignore the economy and the role of massive deficits in the nation’s continued financial stability.

    The last time we voted for a candidate with absolutely no background in the workplace we still suffer from the longest period of 8% unemployment since the Great Depression.
    ***********************************************************

    I’m sure you can see the fallacy of using that type of comparison to make a valid political point…..what say, beerBoy, a bit over the top????
    ___________________________________________________________

  19. BHO had policy experience prior to 2009? Living overseas as a kid and visiting pakistan as a college student made him an expert on what?

    It is easier to argue Mitt’s international business dealingsmake him more knowledgable then BHO ever was.

  20. Frankendummy is getting harder and harder to ignore but the idiocy of his statements does mitigate the difficulty.

  21. Oldoc – the debt was created by CONGRESS, and CONGRESS as failed to take steps to reduce the debt.

    aJo – the community organizer knows who our enemies are, unlike Mitt the Twit who is still fighting the Soviets.

  22. aislander says:

    I was just reminded that prominent Dems had PLENTY of negative things to say about our actions as we became engaged in war.

    Their disagreement was said to be the “highest form of patriotism…”

    What’s changed?

    Oh yeah: there’s a Dem in the White House…

  23. aislander says:

    So…xring…if the President has no control over spending, does that make Obama’s promise to cut the deficit a lie?

  24. aislander says:

    After all, his party was in complete control of Congress for two years of his presidency…

  25. He knows who our enemies are? Then why did he support their takeover of two countries, working on #3?

  26. SwordofPerseus says:

    ‘slander, you know that the POTUS writes a budget proposal and submits it to the Congress. It is entirely up to the Congress to make the appropriations and spending bills, not the POTUS he can sign them or not.

    The Congress has never been 100% Democrat party members, thus your above statement of complete control of Congress is pure fallacy, again.

  27. aislander says:

    Passage of Obamacare equals complete control of Congress.

    Your post above is the phallusy…

  28. Ora Clark wrote: “the recession following the downgrade by S&P in 2008″
    ________________________________________________________

    Ehill added: “I hate to interrupt a perfectly good rant with anything inconvenient like facts, but the sad (for you) fact is that the recession started in December 2007, and the downgrade didn’t happen until 2011.”
    ________________________________________________________

    Speaking of “inconvenient facts”, the Obama administration and many economists pronounced the recession over in June, 2009. You will have to pardon Ora and about 25,000,000 idle American workers if they failed to notice. So much for perfectly good rants.

  29. Xring wrote: Oldoc – the debt was created by CONGRESS, and CONGRESS as failed to take steps to reduce the debt.
    _____________________________________________________

    The President formed the Simpson Bowles commission to produce solutions to the ongoing federal budget deficit and national debt problem. The President promptly s–t canned the recommendations of the commission and relies instead on the sequestration solution. The man has no clue and will support any activity for which he can disavow any blame.

  30. Oldoc – Finally, a budget issue the President and Paul Ryan agree on.

    Oh, you didn’t know that Ryan, and the other to House GOP members of Simpson Bowles voted against the final report and recommendations?
    And one more time” CONGRESS creates the debt.

    CONGRESS could have adopted all are part of Simpson Bowles recommendations.

    Could have, BUT DID NOT!

  31. LeePHilI says:

    “When Obama took office, the Demorats had control of BOTH houses”

    Sorry Dave. You’re wrong again.

    You don’t “control” the Senate without 60 votes because the GOP will filibuter you until the cows come home. Proof positive? The record number of filibusters since Obama took office.

    The Democrats (I don’t have spelling issues) never really had 60 seats in the Senate because, as soon as Al Franken was sworn in, Ted Kennedy was dying, thus…..not voting.

    Between “Demorats” and your re-write of recent history, I’m amusingly reminded that you claim to be an “Independent”.

  32. LeePHilI says:

    Now to CT’s video….

    Obama pledged to “cut the deficit in half”.

    When he took over, the deficit was twice the amount as when Bush took office. (double)

    Obama’s plan has slowed the deficit accumulation to 50% of the existing debt he inherited.

    He didn’t double the debt, he slowed it to half the pace of his predecessor.

    When dealing with numbers like “trillion”, I’d say that’s a pretty damned good fulfillment of a goal.

    Of course, any president would have to have the cooperation of Congress, which we KNOW Obama has not.

    If anyone is paying attention, this is the game of “do everything to make sure he is a one term president”. Only the truly stupid can’t see that.

  33. LeePHilI says:

    Oh…did I fail to mention that the first two years of Obama’s administration were budgeted by the Bush Administration?

    Sorry to bring that up, but THAT is the way it works.

    Which makes you wonder even more, how Bush could have screwed up so badly, what he inherited from the Clinton days.

    And to oldoc…..get some new reading glasses:

    The National Bureau of Economic Research, a panel of academic economists based in Cambridge, Mass., said the recession lasted 18 months. It started in December 2007 and ended in June 2009. Previously the longest postwar downturns were those in 1973-1975 and in 1981-1982. Both of those lasted 16 months.”

    Doesn’t look much like the Obama Administration to me, other than he may have quoted them. Now we know that the Conservatives wouldn’t misrepresent a quote from President Obama….right?

    I suppose that a definition of “recession” would be in order so that it can be determined when “recession” ends.

    “In economics, a recession is a business cycle contraction, a general slowdown in economic activity.[1][2] Macroeconomic indicators such as GDP, employment, investment spending, capacity utilization, household income, business profits, and inflation fall, while bankruptcies and the unemployment rate rise.”

    Maybe, and I’m just spitballing here, the Bureau was referencing the recovery of the stock market as an indicator. Regardless, there are no fast and hard terms that dictate when we are/aren’t in recession.

    Oh crap…another thing you can’t dump on Obama…..

  34. LeePHilI says:

    oops

  35. averageJose says:

    LMAO… more leftist math from Larry of Oly.

    Barry has added double to the debt twice as fast as Bush.

  36. “Speaking of “inconvenient facts”, the Obama administration and many economists pronounced the recession over in June, 2009. You will have to pardon Ora and about 25,000,000 idle American workers if they failed to notice. So much for perfectly good rants.”

    It took unemployment about five years to recover after the end of the short, mild 2001 recession, and you’re snivelling about this one. If we recover at the same rate now, unemployment won’t recover until 2014.

  37. Lar, what planet are you living on? Too much medical marijuana? Martinis?

    Even if I give Bush full credit/blame for the 2008 spending (Nancy and Harry made the budget, some of the spending was made with BHOs wishes and TARP was repaid) if does not negate what BHO said and failed to do.

    He did not claim percentage growth or some other wacky way for you to make math work in your parallel world (and it does not work).

    Even the pundits on the left have given up the ‘slowed spending’ line since it is stupid on its face. No one can take that serious but the Hills.

    Be better than this.

  38. LeePHilI says:

    Bush double the debt.

    Obama slowed it down to 50% growth.

    Indisputable.

    Aside from that, Obama took on the war debts, Bush swept them under the carpet.

    Who started the wars?

    Cons pretend that when Bush left, everything disappeared with him. No so, says LPH. When Bush left, he left two ongoing wars and the CDB and residual debt of said wars, plus all the other CDB and residual debt of the growth of the Federal Government.

    It didn’t just go away.

    Maybe Obama should have just bankrupted the United States and paid himself a handsome salary for doing so. Then he’d be called “successful”.

  39. LeePHilI says:

    Speaking of debts and wars….

    Who is going to pay for all this latest sabre rattling that Romney and the Cons want to do?

    I was listening to Grampy McCain this morning, chastising the President for not getting into Syria and Iran. I wonder when he’s going to put up the legislation for tax increases to pay for the wars he wants us to get into.

    Are we going to pay for them with magic money again?

  40. LeePHilI says:

    “Barry has added double to the debt twice as fast as Bush.”

    Obama has not doubled the debt. False statement, as usual, Joey.

  41. aislander says:

    The cost of complying with the tax code is a $100 billion less than the cost of servicing the debt…

  42. averageJose says:

    40 BILLION a day to buy bad mortgages?

  43. LeePHilI says:

    “CT8 says:
    Sep. 13, 2012 at 5:38 pm lar, this isn’t even fun or funny. You are so far away from reality it is not worth debating.”

    This is a sure sign of someone that doesn’t have a clue to the mathematics of the issue and is trying to deflect the conversation.

    Ever since someone got away with “polish this turd” on this forum, it’s become a daily phrase for CT – usually two or three times a day.

    Anything to not have to argue a point with facts and details….

    Now, not to distract too much, CT…but go back to my original challenge….

    Show me a direct quote from Barack Obama where he said that we’d be able to pay down the debts from George W. Bush

    You didn’t do that, therefore any response on my part to your childish retorts are nothing short of charity directed your way.

    OH…..LOOKIE HERE…..the DETAILS that were left off the video:

    “The president’s budget proposal will project that the estimated $1.3 trillion deficit inherited from the Bush administration will be halved to $533 billion by 2013, or from 9.2% of the gross domestic product to 3%, the official said.”

    http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/23/news/economy/fiscal_summit/index.htm

    Nice try, CT, but the one thing I can generally depend on, when a conservative submits a quote or a video of the President is that it’s been edited to their favor.

    Some things will never change….that’s just the way it is….

  44. LeePHilI says:

    “averageJose says:
    Sep. 13, 2012 at 8:03 pm 40 BILLION a day to buy bad mortgages?”

    Why do I think that is a misrepresentation of the true issue?

    The source.

  45. aislander says:

    That should have read: “The cost of complying with the tax code is $100 MORE than servicing the debt.”

    Kind of lost its impact the other way…

  46. I mentioned campaign promises and you added Bush debt. Did I say that anywhere? Nope.

    Just pointed out he did nothing about the deficit.

    What you left out of your quote was TARP (repaid) and the spending request by one BHO.

    This is a recycled argument that you have lost multiple times.

    When he loses he will have spent over a trillion dollars per year of his admin in debt. Spin that all you want, those are the facts.

    And how is one year of Bush’s spending, which was universally declared to high, a justification for anything? Your twisted world where a previous wrong justifies one today is quite illogical.

    Glad to see you gave up on the war debt junk.

  47. Aislander – what war are you talking about?

    The lie is the one where the Dems had complete control of Congress for two years.

    Presidents make requests, the House makes budgets.

    CT8 – Who and which three countries are you talking abour?

  48. “Bush’s spending, which was universally declared to high”

    Ahhh, that explains why Bush lost his re-election bid in 2004. Because the Republicans were appalled at his huge deficits. ROFL

  49. Ehill somehow thinks that the 2009 FY budget deficit should have swung the 2004 election in Kerry’s favor? ROFL

  50. Xring wrote: Oh, you didn’t know that Ryan, and the other to House GOP members of Simpson Bowles voted against the final report and recommendations?
    And one more time” CONGRESS creates the debt.
    ______________________________________________________

    The President is required by law to submit to the Congress a budget for each coming FY. This budget is a prioritization of national interests/goals as presented in the state of the Union address. The latest budget submitted by the President was soundly defeated without a single member voting yea. It is also important to remember that the President has the veto power to prevent unwise budget choices by the Congress so he cannot be considered to be powerless to affect austerity measures.

    The Democrat majority Senate has failed to produce a budget (or even vote on one) in three years. As a result of this failure the finances of this nation have depended upon a series of continuing resolutions to pay its bills. Many past Presidents have actively led the budget debate but this administration appears to be satisfied to follow.

    I am well aware that the Simpson/Bowles Commission report was rejected by an 11-7 vote. Fourteen votes were required to adopt the report. The nays included four Republicans and three Democrats. Any combination of three (3) additional yea votes would have OK’ed the recommendations of the report. Who do you wish to blame?

  51. The present debate seems centered around the argument that the President promised to halve the federal budget deficit during his first term of office. If this FY’s budget is $600 billion or less the answer will be yes but that figure was passed long ago and we are headed for the fourth consecutive budget deficit well in excess of $1 trillion.

    You may pile up all your indisputale facts but the glaring truth remains that President Obama was unable to make good on that campaign promise. He definitely had help.

  52. “Ehill somehow thinks that the 2009 FY budget deficit should have swung the 2004 election in Kerry’s favor?”

    Never said it. Never thought it. Try again.

  53. end of italics

  54. Olddoc,
    The President’s budget is not binding and is usually voted down.

    The Constitution requires budgets begin in the HOUSE.

    The Senate does not have the power to produce a budget, but must wait for the House to produce a budget bill.

    In 2009 and 2010, House passed budget bills were filibustered in the Senate by Republican Senators.

    In 2011 and so far in 2012 the GOP has not passed a budget that is acceptable to the Senate and to the White House.

    I blame Simpson and Bowles for their failure to produce a document that both sides could support.

    What the President had was one party whose highest political go was to destroy the President regardless of what their actions did to Country and Citizens.

  55. If House GOP budgets have been unacceptable to the Senate why hasn’t Harry Reid brought any of them to the floor so that they can be voted down? Answer…..to protect Senate Democrats. If no one knows your position how can you be held accountable.

    Please explain the position of the three Democrats who voted nay. Were they just the designated hitters or did they have legitimate reasons for voting nay? Yea votes from these three and the recommendations of the commisssion would have been approved.

    What the President is attempting to do to this country is far more serious than a political party attempting to stop him from doing it.

  56. “Answer…..to protect Senate Democrats”

    And you know this because…?

  57. Ehill responed to the LTE with: “I hate to interrupt a perfectly good rant with anything inconvenient like facts, but the sad (for you) fact is that the recession started in December 2007, and the downgrade didn’t happen until 2011.”
    ____________________________________________________

    I wrote: “Speaking of “inconvenient facts”, the Obama administration and many economists pronounced the recession over in June, 2009. You will have to pardon Ora and about 25,000,000 idle American workers if they failed to notice. So much for “perfectly good rants.”

    ____________________________________________________

    Ehill countered: “It took unemployment about five years to recover after the end of the short, mild 2001 recession, and you’re snivelling about this one. If we recover at the same rate now, unemployment won’t recover until 2014.”
    ____________________________________________________

    It appears that the mere mention of 25,000 idle American workers is considered “snivelling” in ehill’s personal edition of the liberal playbook of progressive talking points.

  58. “Answer…..to protect Senate Democrats”
    ______________________________________

    Ehill’s one liner: And you know this because…?
    ______________________________________

    And you take issue because…?

  59. aislander says:

    xring: The House of Representatives HAS produced budgets–a number of them–none of which have been brought to the floor in the Senate (which DID vote on the the President’s budget proposal: nyet, 99 to 0).

    Harry Reid, the mob lawyer, is the chief obstructionist…

  60. aislander – did a quick google search of “Harry Reid Mob Lawyer”. Found allegations that he had connections with Jack Abramoff, invested in gambling (totally legal), received donations from mob-connected individuals and that his office was one floor away from a “mob lawyer”. Found nothing to substantiate labeling him a “mob lawyer” AND found nothing but hit pieces from Rightist sources.

  61. “And you take issue because…?”

    Because you presented no evidence to support your claim. Try again.

  62. Harry Reid has some other reason? Perhaps you can look up his rationale. I have presented mine. Select the one you prefer and live with it.

  63. “Perhaps you can look up his rationale. I have presented mine.”

    You made yours up. Try again.

  64. averageJose says:

    Maybe aislander has “old friend” with the lowdown on Harry. According to the rules set by Harry Reid himself, he has an obligation to show that they are false, or he must be held accountable.

    So, after Harry leads by example and plays by his own rules he’ll release his tax records and his FBI file.

  65. Opinions are often an individual evaluation of a situation. Ehill has yet to figure that out. Give him time. Couple of years ought to do the trick.

  66. “Opinions are often an individual evaluation of a situation”

    Opinions without a factual basis are about as reliable as a house without a foundation. Anyone who calls himself “doc” ought to know that.

  67. Obviously you have no comprehension of what may constitute a reasonable evaluation. When no other logical reason has been tendered, one is left with the probable conclusion that an alternative either does not exist or is inferior.

    Fact is, budgets have been approved and sent to the Senate for action. Three years and no action. Conclusion…..Democrat political considerations outweigh the need for a Federal budget.

  68. They do not want a budget. Without one they can keep spending with continuing resolutions. The base line for the CRs includes all of the emergency spending which is now just leftist entitlement spending.

    If they passed a budget they would have to be rational.

  69. “When no other logical reason has been tendered, one is left with the probable conclusion that an alternative either does not exist or is inferior.”

    Correction: When no other logical reason has been CONSIDERED, one is left with the IRRATIONAL conclusion that an alternative either does not exist or is inferior.

    You’re welcome.

  70. Ok ehill, I am standing by for Harry Reid’s rationale for failing to bring a single House approved budget to the floor of the Senate. For that matter, perhaps you might profer your personal evaluation of the situation. Contrarians like yourself seldom offer reasoned analysis.

  71. ” the Senate on Wednesday rejected a House budget plan that included a controversial provision to overhaul Medicare”
    http://articles.cnn.com/2011-05-25/politics/senate.medicare_1_medicare-overhaul-budget-plan-budget-proposal?_s=PM:POLITICS

    So your claim that the Senate never voted on a House budget can be seen for the outrageous lie that it is.

  72. Ehill writes: So your claim that the Senate never voted on a House budget can be seen for the outrageous lie that it is.
    ________________________________________________________

    I confess that the Senate has voted on several motions to proceed for consideration. Very different DUMMY from a vote to approve or vote down a budget. Such political theater procedural votes have been taken on the 2012 Ryan Budget 40-57, 2013 Ryan Budget 41-58 and the Obama 2013 Budget Blueprint 97-0.

    Whenever such a motion to proceed is approved and the budget is debated and subject to amendment we can then get a vote on a budget proposal. Until such time as that occurs it is quite safe to maintain that the Senate has not conducted a vote on a budget. Harry Reid has stood firmly in the path of this process for over three years.

    I consider myself fortunate to be counted amoung the many whom you have called a liar. We all share a similar passion for the truth which apparently eludes your comprehension or knowledge of legislative procedure.

  73. “Whenever such a motion to proceed is approved and the budget is debated and subject to amendment we can then get a vote on a budget proposal. Until such time as that occurs it is quite safe to maintain that the Senate has not conducted a vote on a budget.”

    Nice spin. You didn’t specify any specific kind of vote. Fail. Try again.

  74. It was stupid of me to even consider the possibility that you, of all people, would understand that a vote to consider is not a vote on the merits of a proposal. Your simplicity never ceases to amaze me. Nice deflection, or is it projection, maybe pot/kettle, perhaps strawman, could it be messenger..messenger or liar, liar? Fail. Try again.

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