Letters to the Editor

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ELECTION: Choice between unfocused or unfettered

Letter by William C. Dalton, Gig Harbor on Sep. 5, 2012 at 12:39 pm with 105 Comments »
September 5, 2012 12:41 pm

Wednesday’s editorial pages featured some really well-thought-out columns by Paul Krugman and David Brooks.

Brooks takes President Obama to task for some failures in the actions/goals of his administration.

On the other hand, Krugman makes some very good points about the apparent smoke-and-mirrors claims that the Romney/Ryan campaign is indulging in.

However, the really significant item on those two pages was the editorial from the Walla Walla Union-Bulletin. I agree, there is simply no explanation for the sudden rise in gas prices other than greed and power. Who directly controls the price on the pumps day to day? From articles in The News Tribune it would appear to be the big oil companies.

What is the real lesson here? I remember Mitt Romney on TV saying that “business should be allowed to do what they want,” or very nearly those words. Thus, Romney (and Paul Ryan) are clearly in favor of big business (here some of the richest companies in just about the entire world) being allowed to gouge the users and the economy as a whole. Without limit. Enron, AIG and the rest of that illustrious crowd would be included under that wide umbrella. How about Bernie Madoff?

Think before you vote. Right now our choices seem to be an unfocused president or someone who favors robber barons. Which is worse?

Leave a comment Comments → 105
  1. averageJose says:

    I remember Mitt Romney on TV saying that “business should be allowed to do what they want,” or very nearly those words.

    Citation please… and don’t use quotes unless it’s a quote.

    According to Nancy Pelosi and company it’s the president’s fault.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9Oek6ZboAI&feature=relmfu

  2. I’ve been trying to verify your claim that Romney said ““business should be allowed to do what they want,” or very nearly those words.”
    Attempting to tie Romney and Ryan with Enron, AIG or Bernie Madoff is just as disingenuous as calling you a partisan ideologue because you suggested such a connection.

  3. sandblower says:

    I take strong exception to the claim that the President is unfocused. What may look like that is the result of the unprecedented obstructionism employed by the extreme right.

  4. sandblower says:

    The philosophy of the Enrons, IAGs, Madoffs and Bain Capital are not so far apart. That is what the author is saying and I agree.

  5. Liberals = Liars

  6. Frankenchrist says:

    Mitt Romney likes to fire people, hide his money in Switzerland, and send our jobs to China.

  7. Once again this is a letter the TNT should not have posted.

    The ‘almost a quote’ quote alone should have disqualified it.

    Hey Bill, do some research next time. I know liberals like yourself are scared of the truth, but before you make a fool out of yourself again you should give it a try.

  8. So hidden you know about it?

  9. menopaws says:

    oldoc—Tell me are the Koch Brothers in the shoe business???? Romney clearly has a relationship with big oil, so let’s not play that con game, okay?

  10. Clearly? Because they like him over BHO? Think about it, if he expands production in America, jobs will be made, taxes will be paid (before you mention ‘tax breaks, BHO has not changed them) and a likelihood of prices of going down. Production in America means our standards will be applied, not the 3rd world’s. MOney stays here, helping our cash outflow to the ME.

    The Koch brothers are like the boogie man to the leftists. They are rich businessmen that pay millions in taxes, hire thousands of people, and happen to have a different political view than you. The attacks on them are everything that is wrong with the democrats.

  11. CT8 – Truth, Justice, and the American Way are NOT found on the conseragoon side of the aisle.

    Case in point, domestic oil production had fallen under Bush, but has expanded under Obama, as has the export of both cude and refined fuels.

    And to prove you are indeed foolish – do you expect BIG OIL lose money so you can enjoy cheap gas?

  12. Menopaws, I simply asked Mr. Dalton to verify his claim that Romeny said:”““business should be allowed to do what they want,” or very nearly those words.” Don’t believe I said anything regarding shoes, oil or the Koch brothers. Perhaps you would care to step up to the plate and supply some confirmation of Mr. Dalton’s assertion. I understand if you would rather just change the subject as you so often do.

  13. Whose presidency has shown the biggest increase in gas prices? Leave Romney and Ryan out of the equation, they are not the POTUS or VPOTUS. Answer: Obama’s . End of story.

  14. menopaws, shooting arrows in a dark room again. Prove that Romney has a “relationship with big oil”. Cite your source or be quiet.

  15. xring, if domestic oil has expanded under your leader, why are prices double what they were under Bush? Huh?

  16. beerBoy says:

    The Koch brothers are like the boogie man to the leftists.

    Can we say Soros? There be a whole lot more boogie men hiding under Rightists beds.

  17. sandblower says:

    If frosty has to ask about gas prices, it must mean he does not know about refinery problems or the effect Issac had in the Gulf of Mexico. Convenient memory loss or something like that…may permanent memory loss.

  18. bobcat1a says:

    Frosty, perhaps, just perhaps, the amount of oil pumped is not truly linked to the price of gas. I wonder how that could be? Any ideas?

  19. SwordofPerseus says:

    What is truly sad is the fact that we are being played by the very most influential wealthy elite. And “we” are playing right into their hands.

    Oldoc-“Corporations are people my friend.”~Mitt Romney Well aren’t people free to do as they please, that is the Republican platform. You seem like you should get it and yet…

  20. Froaty:
    Oil and gas prices are set by the Oil Companies: Presidents have nothing to do with oil and gas pricing.

    Prior to Bush there were export and price controls on domestic oil. Bush removed them, forcing us to compete with the world market.

    And if Obama were to try – your party of white shirts would scream SOCIALISM.

  21. xring, correction, oil and gas prices are set by the market place or as some would call it supply and demand. Go back to the Huff Puff and read some more. If you don’t believe me, read bobcat1a above.

  22. SOP, don’t forget to add unions, they are people too.

  23. prairiegirl says:

    “We’re not going to let our campaign be dictated by factcheckers.”
    Neil Newhouse- Mitt Romeny spokesperson

  24. beerBoy says:

    Mitt slipped once in his Convention speech, and provided some insight into his vision for the Middle class in America:

    “… when you lost that job that paid $22.50 an hour with benefits, you took two jobs at nine bucks an hour and fewer benefits … you did it because it was what you had to do.”

    At least his vision isn’t quite as drastic as that of the world’s richest woman for Australians

    Australian mining magnate Gina Rinehart has criticised her country’s economic performance and said Africans willing to work for $2 a day should be an inspiration.

    Ms Rinehart is said to make nearly A$600 (£393) a second.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19487985

  25. blakeshouse says:

    Gotta love the continued class envy and attempts to destroy the entrepreneurial spirit and replace it with a socialist nanny state. When Mark Twain came up with the famous quote” Better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you a fool, than it is to open your mouth and remove any and all doubt, he had to be talking about the leftists of today.

  26. Sword of wrote: Oldoc-”Corporations are people my friend.”~Mitt Romney Well aren’t people free to do as they please, that is the Republican platform. You seem like you should get it and yet…
    ____________________________________________________________

    Sword-Apples are fruit my friend~don’t they make a great pie~Navel
    oranges are fruit~ever heard of a navel orange pie? You seem like you should get it Sword and yet…..but first you must solve the apples/oranges thing. I’m sure you can step up and provide some confirmation of Mr. Dalton’s assertion that Romney said:”““business should be allowed to do what they want,” or very nearly those words.”

  27. menopaws says:

    The Koch Brothers run a SUPER PAC that runs ads supporting Romney. They are the prime movers behind the Keystone Pipeline, which will pump oil down to the Gulf where it will be loaded on tankers and sold to India or China…..Jobs building it–no oil for us……..That should cover both frosty and oldoc………Koch Brothers and Karl Rove run the two big Super Pacs that support Romney………the company you keep does matter, doesn’t it?

  28. Wow, they support a super PAC? The horror! More taxes and jobs in America? Oh no!! More supply to market? How can that help us? A steady supply not from the ME?

  29. CT8 – A romney win means fewer taxes, fewer jobs, and fewer freedoms in America.

  30. Scottc51 says:

    Taking over control of the oil companies (as well as health care and the car industry and . . . ) is what Hugo Chavez would do.

  31. beerBoy says:

    Comparing our situation to “what Hugo Chavez would do” is an unfounded speculation that only an idiot tea partier would do.

  32. SwordofPerseus says:

    Oldoc – Apples and oranges, wtf are you talking about. They won’t let me draw on here with crayons, so I won’t be able to illustrate this in a way you would easily understand, but I’ll try. The republicon party has been the poster child for deregulation of every form of business since Ronald Reagan. You do realize that if it were not for strong regulations of corporations in the 1970’s there would be no clean air or water by now in the US. I remember what it was like in the ’60’s and ’70’s before the clean air act and the clean water act. You might try and remember back to those good old days when corporations would do what ever they want. Without strong government regulation that is exactly what they would return to.

  33. averageJose says:

    Did Chavez’s government take over oil companies and healthcare or not?

    Why the name calling beers?

  34. LeePHilI says:

    “CT8 says:
    Sep. 5, 2012 at 1:58 pm Once again this is a letter the TNT should not have posted.
    The ‘almost a quote’ quote alone should have disqualified it.
    Hey Bill, do some research next time. I know liberals like yourself are scared of the truth, but before you make a fool out of yourself again you should give it a try.”

    The humor here is that the conservatives have made a sport of misquoting President Obama and now pretend to have found “the truth”?

    Please………..

  35. LeePHilI says:

    “CT8 says:
    Sep. 6, 2012 at 7:45 am Wow, they support a super PAC? The horror! More taxes and jobs in America?”

    Now there is a sample of their “truth”.

    The Koch’s – who know more about offshore havens than a seagull are now creating more jobs and more taxes in America?

    Please……

  36. Frosty, oil prices double what they were under Bush?

    You’re counting on us not remembering that gas was $4 a gallon under Bush, and only came down under the the worst economy in 75 years.

    If gas prices get back to what they were when Bush left office, that will be a bad sign even if it’s not because the US economy is in freefall, because best case other major economies will be in chaos, and that’s going to hurt us before long.

  37. aJo – go listen to you video – the President being blamed is BUSH not Obama.

    Frosty – and who controls the production of oil and gas – The Oil Companies.

  38. Swordof and Menopaws, I’ve been trying to verify Mr. Dalton’s claim that Romney said ““business should be allowed to do what they want,” or very nearly those words.” Both of you choose to pontificate on what appear to be your individual favorite progressive talking points rather provide a source for Bill’s Assertion. WTF, can’t either of you understand a simple request?

    Swordof, I too was around in the 60’s and experienced no ill effects from drinking the water nor breathing the air. Perhaps chewing on your crayons caused you all of the physical distress that you seem to remember with such leftist induced dread.

    Minny, you couldn’t be more correct when you wrote,”the company you keep does matter, doesn’t it?” The past and present socialist associations of Barack Obama certainly point to a man obsessed with income redistribution, globalism and repressive government.

    The two of you have my blessing to carry on with your brilliant repartee but I have had enough of both of you for one morning.
    _________________________________________________________
    ———————————————————

  39. averageJose says:

    Duh… xring… duh. Thank you for pointing out the hypocrisy and double standard coming from the left.

  40. jimlj, ever heard of hurricane Katrina? I wonder if that had anything to do with the rise of gas prices under Bush. Just wondering..

  41. xring, I refuse to get on your merry-go-round. Find someone else to whine to.

  42. Sounds like Oldoc would be perfectly happy with, say, an industrial tooling facility discharging waste effluent, including solvent degreasers, lubricants, heavy metals, etc into the ground where Oldoc relies on groundwater. This is not hyperbole – this happened rampantly and we’re still left with a legacy of contaminated sites and unusable groundwater aquifers! Know anyone who ran a hazardous waste disposal firm in the 40’s, 50’s or 60’s? Nope. Haz waste went into lakes, rivers, ponds, the ground, and the air.

    Lets dump our waste onto Oldoc’s property – heck, didn’t hurt him any! I, for one, love the regulations that prohibit rampant pollution. Guilty as charged. Does that make me a commie? Hahaha

    And Frosty – where did you learn Econ? Presidents don’t control oil prices, as they are a worldwide commodity (look up that economic term). In fact, if we squeezed every last drop of oil from our 50 states and coastlines, we would not add enough to the global market to significantly affect prices one way or another. Oil is not like an apple at the local farmers market. You want to believe that badly so that it fits with your neo-con hero worship. Reagan rolls in his grave.

  43. menopaws, you forgot too add “FLASH” the Koch brothers support Romney!!! Oil is a world-wide commodity, even if some of it does go to China so what? That helps alleviate the world wide demand. They didn’t teach you that in typing school? While you’re having a tissie fit about the Koch brothers support for Romney, don’t forget the millions that Soros and the unions have pumped into Obama’s campaign.

  44. slugoxyz says:

    I try to read both sides objectively mostly to learn what I can from amongst the insults and the usual banter that goes on between the right and the left but I think I have to throw the BS flag at whoever wrote about the Koch Brothers and Super Pac money.

    I realize that Super PACs have been around a long time (1947?) but people seem to indicate that the Koch brothers have given millions to the Republican campaign – I’m sure they have. But what those people are forgetting is the millions raised for Obama’s 2008 campaign. According to http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aerix76GvmRM Obama spent a billion dollars running for President in 2008 compared to McCain’s $227.7 million.
    In this election, it is true that Rove has raised more than a hundred million for American Crossroads GPS and Restore Our Future had raised 52 million? All for Romney but Obama uses “Bundling” and is raising even more. The Obama campaign would like you to think that it comes from small donors but according to http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/johncassidy/2012/04/obamas-money-game-campaign-donations.html this just isn’t true. It indicates that there are 47 “bundlers” who have raised the bulk of BO’s money.

    So my point isn’t to point the finger at either candidate but to show that both candidates are using Super PACs to the fullest extent. Just because the Koch brothers have become the “Boogiemen” to the left, doesn’t mean there aren’t boogiemen to the right. If Super PACs are cheating, both parties are doing it fully. And it’s kind of like doping in the Tour De France. If everyone is doing it, how do you punish or even criticize any single racer?

    Jut keeping it real. Having said that, I think we as a nation are really screwed. Both candidates are simply awful. You can defend BO’s record but let’s face it… no one is really better off than they were 4 years ago…except Obama. And is Romney the guy who will save us? I seriously doubt it. I’m just excited that the polls are even and amused that NFL football eclipsed the DNC last night.

  45. Olddoc,
    I find it odd that a fine intellectual gentleman, such as yourself, would challenge the idea that Romney would support the Republican ideal that there should be no taxes or regulations imposed on Big Business.

    aJo – no hypocrisy or double standard – just pointing out your stupidity and blind adherence to the failed republican ideas.

    Frosty
    Do be careful not to trip on that tail between your legs.

  46. SOP, I go back a little further than you. I remeMber when practically all plants operated on coal. The air was dirty, but that was just the way it was in the 40’s and 50’s when jobs were all over the place. You have a choice, clean air and no jobs or dirtier air with lots of jobs. That way the choice is your’s, you can starve to death in clean air or choke to death in dirty air. I’m now in my seventies, I breathed dirty air from smoke stacks, cars, tanks, cigarettes, but have always had a job and BTW, I’m in good health. I guess you libs don’t see the correlation between the environmental nazis and the moving of our industrial businesses overseas. Too bad, you’d better stock up on some survival rations.

  47. xring, speaking of “tail” I heard Chris Matthews, one of your leaders, fantasizing about Clinton going to Mars and having “relations” with a Martian after Clinton’s ramblings last night. If there ever was a doubt about the connection between liberalism and brain disfunction, that doubt has now been removed. He sends a “tingle” up my leg. LOL

  48. Xring wrote: Olddoc, I find it odd that a fine intellectual gentleman, such as yourself, would challenge the idea that Romney would support the Republican idea that there should be no taxes or regulations imposed on Big Business.
    __________________________________________________________

    Please provide for our edification just where you found the “Republican ideal that there should be no taxes or regulations imposed on Big Business”. If you really took the trouble to look into the “Republican ideal” you would find that it includes RESPONSIBLE TAXES AND REASONABLE REGULATIONS imposed on business. You must spend too much of your time reading the same trash that has infected the political awareness of SwordofPerseus and Menopaws.

  49. Do your own research and prove the Rpots are not committed to lowering taxes on the rich and on big business.

  50. Olddoc = your problem is you have NO political awareness –
    just blind obedience to a cause that will destroy America by destroying the middle and working classes.

    Republicans are sworn to not raise taxes or to close tax loopholes unless they lower tax rates.

    Every republican backed tax plan is based on lower taxes for the rich and on corporations.

    That is the political reality that you ignore.

    As for Romney’s plan look at what the Wall Street Journal Says:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443686004577633383662327096.html

  51. LeePHilI says:

    I don’t quite understand Chris Matthews’ statment about Clinton, but for all its clumsiness….at least he isn’t calling a law student a “slut”…..

  52. took14theteam says:

    But he is calling Martians “sluts”…..

  53. frosty Hurricane Katrina? A 2005 hurricane causing 2008 gas price increases? That doesn’t even come close to passing the smell test.

    I don’t know if you don’t remember the past, or just think that we don’t.

  54. beerBoy says:

    I found Mitt’s words about our servicemen and women during his acceptance speech as non-existent as his details on how he is going to deal with the deficit.

  55. jimlj, to your point about the 3 year period between Katrina and 2008. Do you remember how long the off-shore drilling was delayed? If you don’t know the answer to that, your memory needs a course correction.

  56. beerboy between now and novemeber 7th, you’ll be hearing a lot about the points you’re concerned about. The election isn’t over yet, wait for the debates.

  57. LeePHilI says:

    Another resolution failed….

  58. Where was BHOs plan to solve the Nation’s problems tonight? More goals, no action or plans. A repeat of the 08 rhetoric.

  59. averageJose says:

    Obama’s speeches have reached the apex of redundancy… that and his incessant sibilance.

  60. islandernwly says:

    frosty @ 1:55PM I’ve got to say that your post at best is meretricious. Your inference that “jobs were all over the place” because of dirty air is really laughable. You can count yourself as one of the fortunate ones at being in good health after what you say you have inhaled. But if you studied the history of lung disease and have worked in the medical field any length of time, you might understand the benefit those “environmental nazis” have given to people who are more susceptible to the hazardous particles that were forced on us not only by breath, but by ingesting and absorbtion through the skin, all because most industrial businesses cared less about what they were dumping. You also seem to imply that you care less what the industrial businesses dump overseas and the problems they can cause for those working people. And I too remember homes heated by coal furnaces. But unless you are still living in the 50’s, you may have missed all the jobs that were created by newer products that came to market to replace the dirty air that you seem so fond of.

  61. Who gives these big companies their money and thereby
    sabotages our nation?

  62. beerBoy says:

    Romney’s financial plan for the poor and the middle class:

    “Borrow money from your parents”.

  63. beerBoy says:

    Romney’s plan to create jobs:

    Change the tax code to catalyze the creation of 800,000 jobs overseas.

  64. beerBoy says:

    Romney’s plan to save Medicare

    We have to destroy the village to save it.

  65. Why does the left hate a solid family? Why is there any shame in a parent funding a child’s education?

  66. beerBoy says:

    Romney’s plan for the deficit

    Cut his own taxes to 1%, cut Medicare and Social Security, increase taxes on the Middle Class and magically the numbers (which show a huge increase in the deficit) will all work out.

  67. beerBoy says:

    ct – desperate ploy there dude. If you really believe your latest post you are as, if not more, clueless than Mitt.

  68. Look at your wallpaper. What has you so panicked? The lack of ideas from the DNC? The fake vote and flip flip on God/Israel?

  69. Dave98373 says:

    Other than “blaming Bush” for all of his first four year failures, Obama has not given any independant voters reason to re-elect him. Because depsite all of the rhetoric if he can’t win the independant voters (which will decide this race), Obama loses.

  70. beerBoy says:

    The DNC succumbing to the pressure from the Rightwing gotcha machine and re-inserting God and Jerusalem into their platform was, again, evidence that the Dems aren’t much different from the Repubs. But there is some difference and I would much rather have Bad for four more years rather than Worse.

  71. tellnolies says:

    “40′s and 50′s when jobs were all over the place. ”

    …did you forgot that little thing called WWII frosty? Most of the industrial world was still clearing rubble and rebuilding, while the US manufacturing base was unscathed.

    Ideology had little to do with postwar US economics, the big factor is that the war didn’t come here….

    Complacency, and the ridiculous notion that our success was based on geography/nationalism/ideology got us to where we are today.

  72. harleyrider1 says:

    Do you re-hire someone that came over to your house 4-years ago and only finished 1/3 of your remodel before all the money was gone?

    If Obama has a plan to “finish the job”, why didn’t he do it 2-years ago, 1-year ago, last month, last week, yesterday instead of flying around being on TV and going to celebrity parties? Why must his “plan” wait until after he’s elected again?

    He gave himself an incomplete. Think back to school. Those that got incompletes were not the brightest tools in the shed.

    I’d much rather take my chances on someone that knows how to make money; on someone that has actually built a business; on someone that doesn’t “need” to be worshiped and be on TV every week.

    Change? I’m hoping for a different President.

  73. Xring, like so many of your political persuasion and passion, when asked to provide validation for one of your ridiculous contentions, you simply change the subject. You wrote that, “Romney would support the Republican idea that there should be no taxes or regulations imposed on Big Business.” I would like to know the source of your information not more garbled talking points based on your own view of reality.

    I am thoroughly fed up with the misinformation that you and others continually ply on this forum and your refusal to respond to a reasonable request for verification. The apparent liberal steadfast notion that opinion equals fact may seem reasonable to you but to many others it is nothing more than partisan drivel.

  74. harleyrider nails it again; it’s really so simple.

  75. islandernwly says:

    harleyrider, ok I’m the contractor, and as the homeowner you know that the law in your town says that in order to fix the plumbing I have to use the only two plumbers that are licensed, and they have to be used at the same time, they read the same blueprints but they can’t agree on whether to use plastice or cast iron pipe. I can’t change the law so I get what I can completed but its up to the homeowner to get plumbers into town that can work together to get it done. Simple.

  76. islandernwly says:

    Oh, I had to take incompletes in some classes because of outside influences, and not because of some brightness issue.

  77. islandernwly says:

    Oh, I had to take incompletes in some classes because of outside influences, and not because of some brightness issue.

  78. LeePHilI says:

    “I am thoroughly fed up with the misinformation that you and others continually ply on this forum and your refusal to respond to a reasonable request for verification.”

    Considering the source, THAT is priceless!! LOL

  79. LeePHilI says:

    “CT8 says:
    Sep. 6, 2012 at 9:04 pm Where was BHOs plan to solve the Nation’s problems tonight? More goals, no action or plans. A repeat of the 08 rhetoric.”

    You didn’t listen to the speech. You just listened to the FOX talking points that were provided by Karl Rove after the speech.

    I thought poor old Karl’s head was going to explode.

    Meanwhile, there is still one Republican with a shred of honesty:

    STEVE SCHMIDT: …I don’t think the Democrats could have possibly done a better job this week in building a case for the President’s re-election. I think their convention was a home run….It was an effective speech, as almost all of his speeches are.

    Between Schmidt and Charlie Crist, they should start a new party and call it “Your Father’s Republicans” in honor of the Republican Party of the past.

  80. LeePHilI says:

    I find it funny that Harley equates bringing a country out of recession to a carpenter’s job (landscaper on another thread).

    The Republicans watched for eight years while the debt rose and unemployment increase. The debt increase of $5 trillion and an increase of 185% in the unemployment numbers from 2001 to 2009 weren’t enough to bring a peep out of the cons…..

    NOW…that someone didn’t clean up the mess – in 3+ years – that took 8 years to create……the cons are going into the faux outrage routine that they love so well.

    If we are going to equate our leaders to carpenters, what would Romney be? He’s the carpenter that you asked to fix a roof leak and when you came home from the grocery store, he had a wrecking crew there and charged you 10 times as much to demolish your home.

  81. averageJose says:

    Beerboy, you may want to fact check your talking points BEFORE you copy/paste them… you may not look quite as foolish. Oh, and if you’re going to continually harp about “citations”, it would do you well to take your own advice… for once.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/story/2012-09-07/fact-check-obama-biden-dnc/57672532/1

  82. I wrote in response to Xring: “I am thoroughly fed up with the misinformation that you and others continually ply on this forum and your refusal to respond to a reasonable request for verification.” The apparent liberal steadfast notion that opinion equals fact may seem reasonable to you but to many others it is nothing more than partisan drivel.”
    _______________________________________________________

    LeePHill sagely stated: Considering the source, THAT is priceless!! LOL.
    _______________________________________________________

    As your buddy ehill frequently says, “you just proved my point.” Drivel…………a LeeP mainstay.

  83. Harley – a good point to make against REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS rather than Obama.

    Oldoc ,
    Do you not know that your party’s one and only response to the economy and the debt is to cut taxes on the rich and the corporations and to deregulate businesses?
    Or, that Romney would reduce the top income tax rate to 20% and eliminate capital gains tax for those earning over $200,000, but would tax capital gains as income for those earning under $200,000 per year.
    For more facts:
    http://www.ontheissues.org/2012/Mitt_Romney_Tax_Reform.htm

    Romney on regulation:
    Repeal and replace Obamacare and Dodd-Frank
    Review and eliminate Obama-era regulations
    Cap new regulatory costs at zero dollars
    Require Congress to approve all major regulations
    Reform legal liability system

    http://www.mittromney.com/issues/regulation

  84. islandernwly, you missed the point entirely about the coal, environmentalists, etc. You “greenies” always say the same thing when someone who has smoked all of their lives and lived around coal smoke point out the fact they they are still healthy. You always come back with “well, you are one of the lucky ones”. You know what? Living is dangerous, walking across the street is dangerous.We are all going to die. Face it and move on with your life.

  85. frosty – the tabacco and coal industries would love to find a life long smoker who live around coal smoke and was still health.

    And I would love to catch a Unicorn.

  86. “before you mention ‘tax breaks, BHO has not changed them”

    That’s a lie. There were $350 billion in tax breaks in the stimulus package.

  87. “The Koch brothers are like the boogie man to the leftists. They are rich businessmen that pay millions in taxes, hire thousands of people, and happen to have a different political view than you. The attacks on them are everything that is wrong with the democrats.”

    ROFL – that’s pretty funny coming from people that constantly try to demonize George Soros.

  88. Xring wrote: Oldoc ,
    Do you not know that your party’s one and only response to the economy and the debt is to cut taxes on the rich and the corporations and to deregulate businesses?
    Or, that Romney would reduce the top income tax rate to 20% and eliminate capital gains tax for those earning over $200,000, but would tax capital gains as income for those earning under $200,000 per year.
    For more facts:
    http://www.ontheissues.org/2012/Mitt_Romney_Tax_Reform.htm

    Romney on regulation:
    Repeal and replace Obamacare and Dodd-Frank
    Review and eliminate Obama-era regulations
    Cap new regulatory costs at zero dollars
    Require Congress to approve all major regulations
    Reform legal liability system

    http://www.mittromney.com/issues/regulation
    _______________________________________________________

    I note that you provided mittromney.com as one of your citations….unfortunately you have apparently misread the text. I’ll just briefly point out a few facts that seem to have escaped your attention:

    1. Governor Romney proposes a 20% marginal tax rate reduction for all tax rates not a 20% rate for the rich. You are abviously out of sync on this one!

    2. Governor Romeney proposes that the interest, dividend and capital gains tax rates remain unchanged except to eliminate capital gains taxes for those with AGI less than $200,000.00. Maybe you got that one backwards???

    3. The review and elimination of those Obama administration regulations negatively impacting the economy. Not all regulations will be eliminated Xring…..only the bad ones.

    4. Capping regulatory costs at zero dollars refers to those regulations imposed by non elected federal bureaucrats directly impacting economic recovery. The cost of implementing these regulations are not included in the budget and drive up the year end deficit. It does not precluded Congress from enacting regulations nor funding them..

    5. Requiring Congress to approve all major regulations would
    end the practice of non elected federal bureaucrats implementing costly regulations that hinder economic growth.

  89. ehill, you obviously missed the point, quantifying my comment. He hasnot raised taxesor revenue, but lowered them. A very Bush move.

  90. “you obviously missed the point”

    Nope. I caught you telling yet another lie.

  91. CT8 wrote: “before you mention ‘tax breaks, BHO has not changed them”
    _________________________________________________________

    Ehill blustered: That’s a lie. There were $350 billion in tax breaks in the stimulus package.
    _________________________________________________________

    Surely even you, ehill, must have understood that CT was referring to tax breaks that were already in the tax code prior to the Obama administration. Everyone else seemed to get it.

  92. “Surely even you, ehill, must have understood that CT was referring to tax breaks that were already in the tax code prior to the Obama administration”

    He didn’t say that.

  93. Ehill, sometimes it may be wise to use your brain before employing your keyboard.

  94. Put your big boy pants on and admit you are wrong. It would make you look less foolish.

    My point was clear, oldoc nailed it.

  95. xring, consider yourself very lucky. I started smoking at the age of 14, that was in 1954, (you do the math). I grew up next to a factory that burned coal. In the military, most army posts in the 50’s were coal fired. I remember going to work one morning at Fort Knox and the sky was black from coal smoke. Guess what.. I’m still here! I still walk every morning, but must admit that I miss the dark skies. Good luck catching that unicorn, don’t forget to take your saddle.

  96. “Ehill, sometimes it may be wise to use your brain before employing your keyboard.

    Put your big boy pants on and admit you are wrong. It would make you look less foolish.”

    When you two know you can’t refute the message, attack the messenger. Hardly unexpected.

  97. islandernwly says:

    frosty, the only point you’ve made is you like breathing bad air, are proud of it and think everyone else should enjoy it. Fortunately people with a better sense of how to live with a cleaner enviroment prevailed.

  98. LeePHilI says:

    I wish frosty would go live somewhere where the sky is black with pollution.

    Smoke more. We can use the tax revenue and you seem to like it.

  99. Ehill whined: When you two know you can’t refute the message, attack the messenger. Hardly unexpected.
    ___________________________________________________________

    Message duly refuted. Messenger confused. Typical. Try the old pot/kettle thing.

  100. “Message duly refuted.”

    Because you said so, eh? ROFLMAO

  101. Ehill whined: When you two know you can’t refute the message, attack the messenger. Hardly unexpected.
    ___________________________________________________________

    I said: Message duly refuted. Messenger confused. Typical. Try the old pot/kettle thing.
    ____________________________________________________________

    Ehill weakly offered: “Message duly refuted.”

    Because you said so, eh? ROFLMAO
    ____________________________________________________________

    Yes, because I said so. The adults in the room must speak up when necessary.

  102. “Yes, because I said so. The adults in the room must speak up when necessary.”

    ROFL – oh, the irony!

  103. I note the children are acting up again.

  104. Yes, you are.

  105. Replace the word ‘children’ in my last post and replace it with the word ‘lunatics’.

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