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ELECTION: More specifics from both sides, please

Letter by Michael C. McKeller, Fircrest on Sep. 4, 2012 at 1:59 pm with 51 Comments »
September 4, 2012 2:02 pm

Great cartoon in Saturday’s paper by Chris Britt about Clint Eastwood’s strange performance at the Republican National Convention. Of course, I’m sure the Democrats will also trot out their share of celebrities (though probably younger and more coherent) to tell us why they think we should re-elect President Obama.

I’m writing this not to try and sway anybody one way or the other, but to share a personal wish – simply that both parties give us more pertinent information on which to base our choices. To date, there’s been precious little in the way of specifics, just more typical name-calling, fear-mongering and vague promises.

To both candidates, please, just tell us:

• How you’d go about fixing the economy/deficit (and show that your numbers are defensible and actually add up).

• How you’d address the huge social issues facing the country – from Social Security and Medicare, to “correctional” facilities jammed to overflowing and the dismal global ranking of our public education system.

• How you’d do all of the above while protecting our seemingly increasingly fragile planet.

That’s it – just give us specific information in ways that allow us to make rational decisions, informed by logic and reason, and not by which side’s celebrities or politically successful has-beens or wannabes we find most appealing in a five-minute convention-stage speech or a 30-second TV ad.

Is that too much to ask? Of course not. But sadly, it’s probably way too much to expect.

Leave a comment Comments → 51
  1. You had 4 years of blame and excuses. Nothing else needed to make a rational choice

  2. http://www.mittromney.com/jobs

    Not hard to find. Please feel free to see his ideas on other issues you addressed.

  3. sandblower says:

    Reelecting President Obama may not solve all the world’s problems,but it will keep the world’s problems from getting worse and one cannot say that for Ryan-Romney who represent the extreme right.
    The past 4 years have been difficult, because of the severity of the recession, which was not Obama’s fault and the foot dragging done by the extreme right, which is also not his fault.
    If you need more information than that, you have not been paying attention.

  4. LeePHilI says:

    “CT8 says:
    Sep. 4, 2012 at 2:13 pm You had 4 years of blame and excuses. Nothing else needed to make a rational choice”

    A comment with this many falsehoods should not be posted.

  5. Four years of Republican blame and excuses.

  6. X, glad to see you have a sense of humor today!

  7. Frankenchrist says:

    Romney/Ryan have been quite specific:

    — Tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires; tax increases for the Middle Class.

    — A war on women and their uteruses.

    — More foreign adventures to feed the military-industrial complex.

  8. LeePHilI says:

    Here’s what took place for Americans in the last four years:

    1. General Motors (and all related small businesses) saved.

    2. Stock Market goes from 6K to 13K

    3. War in Iraq spending significantly reduced.

    4. Bin Laden goes from “I don’t think about him” to DEAD.

    5. Job losses halted and unemployment decreased 2% from high of 10% to 8%.

    6. Republicans in Congress unify in effort to stop all progress in the United States

  9. LeePHilI says:


    Nothing new, except whose lips it exits

  10. beerBoy says:

    clicked on your link ct – saw a bunch of politispeak – NO SPECIFICS.


  11. beerBoy says:

    Nothing else needed to make a rational choice

    That isn’t true – to make a rational choice you need to do more than just say “Obama bad”, you need to be able to say, with great confidence, Romney would be better.

    Unfortunately, it seems, many GOPers are anti-Obama because they can’t really state with any confidence that Romney will be better. As I have written several times:

    Obama bad, Romney worse.

  12. How many airlines are alive today without huge bailouts going through normal bankruptcy procedures? Bush already bailed out their financial arms.

    Warriors killed UBL, not Obama. Speaking of that, you are about to vote for a guy who said no to the operation (Biden).

    War in Iraq timeline was established by Bush minus a small residual force. Only thing BHO will get credit for is if they (Iraq) fails to stay stable.

    #5. Slowest and worst recover. Great point Hill.

    And yes, the stock market went up helping the 1%.

  13. sandblower says:

    CT8 does not seem to understand how democracy works. Mr. Biden has one vote and he voted his conscience. I’m not sure any democrat thinks UBL’s death is any more significant than being a talking point to counter the ridiculous positions coming from the extreme right.
    I know I don’t.

  14. LeePHilI says:

    Well, I see that CT is still making excuses for Bush.

    “warriors killed UBL”….but BUSH “accomplished his mission”…

    “slowest and worst recovery” – nothing more than GOP rodent droppings. Much like “unemployment hasn’t been above 8% since Obama took office. People who buy into that line of claptrap are either stupid, part of the 30% who hate Obama or both.

    Luckily we don’t have to stupidly try bankrupsy to see if it works. GM is successfully saved. I’m certain that all the small businesses that depend on GM money are glad we didn’t do it Romney’s BAINWAY.

  15. So where is that unemployment rate?

    Nice Bush plug. Is he running for office? And what does that have to do with BHO taking credit for the work of others? If he is responsible for that then he is responsible for EVERY action since 2009. Yeah, you don’t want that.

  16. Scottc51 says:

    Looking to 4 more years of Obama complaining that he can’t get anything done because of tsunami, congress, previous president Harding, Europe, golf clubs, global warming, high corn prices. He won’t be able to do much for the next 4 years, but we know he won’t take any responsibility for it.
    But he talks good, don’t he?

  17. aislander says:

    Economic policies that grew America into the biggest economy in the world are now called “extreme,” but only by the extremists who now inhabit the Democrat party.

    The “vision” expressed by Obama, et al, is that of Karl Marx, although expressed in New Age terms…

  18. alindasue says:

    aislander said, “Economic policies that grew America into the biggest economy in the world are now called “extreme,”…”

    As the letter writer says, please offer specifics. Which “policies that grew America” are now considered “extreme”?

    The economy seems to be at its strongest during periods of moderation where “capitalistic” and “socialistic” principles are at a balance. Ideally, voting for a moderate candidate would be an ideal solution – but Jon Huntsman is no longer in the running. Mitt Romney and President Obama are.

    As beerBoy keeps saying: “Obama bad, Romney worse.”

  19. A321196 says:

    CTB, see that’s what McKeller is talking about. You give a link to a page that tells you absolutely nothing but political talking points. CTB, you are part of the problem. You just suck up all the gibberish the politicians throw at you. I really do not expect anyone to put together a concise plan of action with specific proposals, especially if the numbers have to flesh out.

  20. aislander says:

    I know that a political and economic system based on governmental thievery is unsustainable, and that a free market is the fairest economic system there is…

  21. LeePHilI says:

    “aislander says:
    Sep. 4, 2012 at 8:25 pm I know that a political and economic system based on governmental thievery is unsustainable”

    Well….I’m sure glad that we have taxation with representation based on the Constitution. Thievery would be the upper class taking all the cream off the top.


    “Where is that unemployment rate?” Two points lower than the highest level in 2009.

    Whether you children can handle it or not, when you leave a pile of poop behind you, it stinks for a long time. Bush left a HUGE (Trump inflection) pile.

    When you quit applauding Bush’s faux warrior routine, and give Obama the credit due for being in charge when Bin Laden was caught, you’ll find that you’ll have to defend Bush less often.

  22. LeePHilI says:

    Hey…CT – when you throw a rock in a pond is there a ripple effect? How long does it last?

  23. LeePHilI says:

    Everything that Bush did…stopped abruptly on January 21, 2009. Some of it actually backed up and disappeared.

    That, and other fairytales, spun daily by the Birchers.

  24. aislander says:

    Thievery is when the property of one American is given by government to another American in return for his political support.

    There is no moral argument that can be made for that, and there is no moral argument to support being able to vote oneself something that belongs to another…

    …unless, of course, you subscribe to an ideology that doesn’t recognize private property as a basic human right.

  25. LOL! Keep dancing.

    So far all we heard was class warfare and big govt junk from the DNC. It is great for the republican party. Please, tell everyone how hard life was/is one more time. Please blame Bush a few more times.

    Alindasue- according to the “experts” on this board, the middle class has been getting screwed since the 80’s. Why not place the blame where it lies? In the 70’s entitlements and payments to individuals passed ‘investments’ and never looked back.

  26. beerBoy says:

    The “vision” expressed by Obama, et al, is that of Karl Marx, although expressed in New Age terms…

    You have just reduced yourself to 3rdpig’s level of John Birch/HUAAC Cold War nostalgic hysteria.

    Rather unfortunate how the reptilian brain can overpower what appears to be a rather competent intellect.

  27. And you are following Hill with the Birther bit.

  28. Clamat0 says:

    Of course, I’m sure the Democrats will also trot out their share of celebrities (though probably younger and more coherent)…

    Uhmm… Betty White?

    • How you’d go about fixing the economy/deficit (and show that your numbers are defensible and actually add up).

    0bama had a plan to fix the economy; he called it the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act – also affectionately known as the “stimuless act. Here’s what he said we should do if (when) it failed:


    Pretty simple, we should take him at his word.

    • How you’d address the huge social issues facing the country – from Social Security and Medicare…

    Romney Ryan have a plan. 0bama? Not so much… unless you consider whistling past the graveyard a “plan”.

    • How you’d do all of the above while protecting our seemingly increasingly fragile planet.

    Yeah, nothing like predicating a discussion on a false premise.

  29. beerBoy says:

    The Romney/Ryan “plan” is more of a rough sketch that cannot be accurately analyzed as it has huge gaps that they tell us we should just trust them to fill in in a manner that will somehow, miraculously, make up for the extremely large deficits created by their “plan”.

    Not buying it. Too many vague (and probably) empty promises from a known Flip-flopper and a known Liar (the Rosie Ruiz of politics).

  30. Clamat0 says:

    0bama’s “plan”??????????

  31. Nostalgic hysteria, bB? Hardly.You know, sometimes it is right and proper to sound a tocsin. Can you seriously not see the long-range vision of this president clearly? Have you read his books; listened carefully to him? That is, when he’s not trying to cover the truth of who he is in order to secure votes.

    YOu want folks to believe there’s hardly a difference between these two candidates and you are mistaken. There is a fundamental difference at the very core of who they are.

    I suggest everyone look very closely at European socialism and brush up on the global community rhetoric out there if you want to see the goals our president has for us.

  32. averageJose says:

    The Romney/Ryan “plan”

    Citations please.

  33. averageJose says:

    The Rosie meme is pretty lame.

  34. LeePHilI says:

    OH…that’s right….Romeny and Ryan don’t have a plan.

  35. LeePHilI says:


    That’s communist…or socialist….or another of the ists….

  36. BeerBoy wrote: Too many vague (and probably) empty promises from a known Flip-flopper and a known Liar (the Rosie Ruiz of politics)________________________________________________________

    BARACK OBAMA during the 2008 Presidential debates said: “For my mother to die of cancer at the age of 53 and have to spend the last months of her life in the hospital room arguing with insurance companies because they’re saying that this may be a pre-existing condition and they don’t have to pay her treatment, there’s something fundamentally wrong about that.”

    HOW IS THAT A FOR A FLAT OUT LIE….??? Giving BHP a pass?

  37. beerBoy says:

    Sub-three hour marathon when it was over 4 hours…….well at least he completed the marathon unlike Rosie Ruiz.

  38. yes, BB, that was a stupid line. Whether he had no clue or told a lie only he knows. But unlike BHO, he is not lying to justify policy changes….

  39. But unlike BHO, he is not lying to justify policy changes….

    Yah sure, ya betcha!

  40. CT8 wrote: But unlike BHO, he is not lying to justify policy changes…

    BeerBoy responded: Yah sure, ya betcha!

    Another insightful comment regarding Barack H Obama’s truthfulness. The President has been, is now and will continue to be a liar.

  41. averageJose says:

    Speaking of Obama lies…

    5 hours ago

    WASHINGTON — Speakers at the Democratic National Convention portrayed President Barack Obama’s presidency in glowing terms Tuesday evening, but sometimes left out important details or embellished his record.
    Others mischaracterized programs backed by Republican challenger Mitt Romney and GOP running mate Paul Ryan.
    Obama’s landmark health care overhaul, which Republicans lacerated at their convention last week, and his job-creation performance were among the initiatives burnished the most.
    First Lady Michelle Obama was the main draw and San Antonio Mayor Julian Castro the keynoter, but more than four dozen other speakers made presentations.

    HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY KATHLEEN SEBELIUS: “Instead of sending your checks to your insurance companies, your insurance companies are sending a check to you. …If you already have health insurance you like, you can keep it.”
    THE FACTS: Under the new health care law, insurers must issue rebates if they fail to spend at least 80 percent of premiums — Sebelius incorrectly said 50 percent — collected on medical care and quality improvement. But mostly it’s the employer, not the worker, who gets the check.
    The Obama administration says that about 13 million people will benefit from health insurance rebates averaging $151 per household. But the number of families actually getting a check will be much smaller, experts say.
    For one thing, employers can plow all the rebate money — including the worker’s share — back into improving the company’s health plan. For example, they could reduce the premium for the following year.
    Employers typically pay 82 percent of the premium for a worker, and 72 percent for a family plan.
    Most workers and their families are covered by job-based health insurance, and the new law does not stop employers from changing their plans from year to year, as they do now.
    SEBELIUS: “So instead of the Medicare guarantee, Republicans would give seniors a voucher that limits what’s covered.”
    THE FACTS: She left out crucial details in describing the Romney-Ryan Medicare plan. It would not apply to the nearly 50 million current Medicare recipients but to future retirees who would join the program starting in 2023. Current beneficiaries could remain in the traditional program, while new retirees would get a fixed payment from the government that could be used either to purchase a private insurance plan or a new government program modeled on traditional Medicare.
    Romney and Ryan say they have no intention of limiting medical care for seniors — only restraining the growth of costs. And traditional Medicare also has its limits. It does not cover everything. Long-term care is not covered, only limited nursing home stays. And most must seniors pay out-of-pocket for dental care unless they have private insurance that covers it. Medicare has copayments and annual deductibles, and that’s also a form of limiting coverage.
    SAN ANTONIO MAYOR JULIAN CASTRO: “Despite incredible odds and united Republican opposition our president took action. And now we’ve seen 4.5 million new jobs.”
    While that figure has become a White House talking point, it’s only part of the story. It’s a cherry-picked number that refers just to private sector jobs created in the last 29 months, from the trough of the recession through July. Governments — especially state and local ones — have continued shedding jobs.
    The economy lost 8.8 million jobs from the time employment peaked in January 2008 until it hit bottom in February 2010. Between then and this July — the most recent month for which there are figures — just 4 million jobs have been recovered. Never since World War II has the economy been so slow to recover all the jobs lost in a downturn.
    SENATE MAJORITY LEADER HARRY REID: “We can only imagine what new secrets would be revealed if he showed the American people a dozen years of tax returns like his father did…. Mitt Romney says we should take his word that he paid his fair share. His word? His word? Trust comes from transparency, and Mitt Romney comes up short on both.”
    THE FACTS: Reid has challenged Romney on his tax returns before, but this time Reid omitted an earlier charge that over the past decade, there were some years when Romney paid no taxes — an uncorroborated claim that Romney insists is false.
    Romney has released just one tax return, from 2010 and says he’ll release his 2011 return once it’s finished. He has steadfastly declined to make more than two years available.
    CHICAGO MAYOR RAHM EMANUEL: “I remember when the president received a report that the auto industry had a few weeks before collapse… And because (he) made the right choice, over one million Americans are still working today.”
    THE FACTS: Emanuel, Obama’s chief of staff at the time, makes it sound like Obama was the one who saved General Motors and Chrysler. (Ford never applied for federal help). But, actually, the auto bailout program was started by President Bush, then extended and expanded by Obama.
    REID: “We learned he chose Swiss bank accounts and Cayman Island tax shelters over American institutions.”
    FORMER OHIO GOV. TED STRICKLAND: “Mitt Romney has so little economic patriotism that even his money needs a passport. It summers on the beaches of the Cayman Islands and winters on the slopes of the Swiss Alps.”
    WOMEN’S EQUALITY ACTIVIST LILY LEDBETTER: “…doesn’t sound like a lot to someone with a Swiss bank account, Cayman Island investments and an IRA worth tens of millions of dollars.”
    THE FACTS: These are references to a $3 million account that Mitt Romney held for several years in a bank in Switzerland and investment funds set up in the Cayman Islands in the Caribbean. A trustee handling Romney’s blind trust said that the Swiss account was active from 2003 until it was closed in 2010. The trustee said the account had been opened for “diversification.” Romney still has active investment funds based in the Caymans, Bermuda, Luxembourg, Ireland and other foreign sites.

  42. AJ, they do not care….

    Bb thinks Ryan is going to focus his policy on long distance running. Or, he forgets the LIES told by BHO in regards to his mother’s insurance.

  43. beerBoy says:

    ct – I have cited several studies that demonstrate that Ryan’s budget plan is full of empty promises. Facts is this: the cuts to middle class programs don’t make up the cuts in taxes for the rich and Ryan’s budget does not explain how he is going to reduce the deficit – let alone make up the difference between loss in tax revenue and his proposed austerity cuts.

    Ryan is a serial liar. The marathon tall tale he told is just a clear example of his lack of veracity. His entire education and career has been at the public trough yet he claims to be a Rand disciple (forgetting, of course, Rand’s very strong libertarian stance against policies that control a women’s body and her atheism).

    You supposed Libertarians should really read H.L. Menken – an admirable Libertarian who was honest about his beliefs.

    Romney made his millions by taking on huge debts, buying up companies and then saddling them (the shareholders) with those debts. Just like our previous M.B.A. president W, Mitt got rich by taking other people’s money, not producing anything – especially American jobs.

    Neither of them demonstrate anything resembling a clue when it comes to turning our economy around.

  44. beerBoy says:

    ct8 – I don’t care about carefully parsed quotes that omit the whole article (which I have already read).

  45. averageJose says:

    I have cited several studies Liar.

  46. Where is BHOs plan? Will he say something like he did in 08 when he promised fiscal responsibility? With Nancy (who needs to gie her make up artist a big tip tonight) gone from power who will ram it done the People’s throats?

    Will it get more vote than his last budget?

    Cite a study please (and for the love of Pete, no more chimps or TP; I understand bias but those are just amateur).

    Romney out hustled the other guy and made a ton of money, taking risks and creating jobs. BHO wrote a book FULL of lies. His wife was given a no show job invented just for her (and not replaced after she left).

    I know you know better. Your ideology is stronger then your reason.

  47. beerBoy says:

    Romney out hustled the other guy and made a ton of money,

    You do know what, in slang, a “hustler” is?


    * From the word hussler. It’s used to describe someone who thinks they’re cool, but they’re really not.

    Hey baby you’re a hussla’.

    Originally submitted by Lacey M. from Fort Collins, CO, USA on Nov 16 1999. (Edit this definition.)
    * A person who is always working; usually illegally.

    That guy is a hustler, he always balling.

    Originally submitted by Jarvis M. from Eudora, AR, USA on Jan 04 2003. (Edit this definition.)
    * THUG. also roams the streets for sex and drugs, steals, etc.

    I’m a qutie hussla.

    Romney’s financial history of borrowing huge amounts of money to buy companies, give himself massive “bonuses”, and then saddle the company he just bought with those debts does fit very nicely with the slang usage of the word hustler.

  48. averageJose says:

    Still no citations… kooky.

  49. “#5. Slowest and worst recover.”

    Ho hum. Another post, another lie. It took unemployment more than five years to fully recover after the end of the last recession. If we recover at that exact same rate, unemployment won’t fully recover until 2016.

  50. “Economic policies that grew America into the biggest economy in the world are now called “extreme,” but only by the extremists who now inhabit the Democrat party.”

    You mean economic policies like a MUCH higher income tax rate? One that Eisenhower refused to lower?

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