Letters to the Editor

Your views in 200 words or less

JOBS: What’s the real unemployment rate?

Letter by Ora Clark, Federal Way on Aug. 31, 2012 at 3:57 pm with 165 Comments »
August 31, 2012 3:57 pm

Re: “Few workers laid off find jobs” (TNT, 8-25).

The article stated that 56 percent of the people (6.1 million) laid off between January 2009 and December 2011 had failed to find jobs. What effect did those 3.4 million people have on the unemployment rate?

Looking at the Bureau of Labor Statistics, I found that the 56 percent cited had contributed 2.4 percent to the reported 9.1 percent unemployment rate, a quite significant figure.

But the most disturbing part of this research was that the unemployment rate is entirely dependent on your definition of labor force and unemployment. In fact the BLS reports six different rates, the 9 percent being what is referred to as the U3 report.

I believe a more realistic value is the U6 report, which gives a rate of 15 percent. But even this figure is flawed since the U6 does not include workers who have given up and are no longer looking for work. Other experts put the real unemployment rate at or near 22 percent.

Why not report the real unemployment rate? Both political parties have a vested interest in publishing the lowest believable figure. The higher it is, the lower the consumer confidence; lower consumer confidence leads to less spending and the deeper the recession will go.

One more case of government manipulation. A pox on both houses.

Leave a comment Comments → 165
  1. “But even this figure is flawed since the U6 does not include workers who have given up and are no longer looking for work.”

    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm

    See the note? It says: NOTE: Persons marginally attached to the labor force are those who currently are neither working nor looking for work but indicate that they want and are available for a job and have looked for work sometime in the past 12 months. Discouraged workers, a subset of the marginally attached, have given a job-market related reason for not currently looking for work. Persons employed part time for economic reasons are those who want and are available for full-time work but have had to settle for a part-time schedule.

    If you can’t even get simple facts like this right, why on earth should anyone take your opinions seriously?

  2. The labor force participation percentage tells an interesting tale, possibly the figure you are looking for

  3. You asked why the real, or higher, unemployment rate is not reported and then you state that a higher reported unemployment rate lowers consumer confidence which leads to a deeper recession.

    Thanks to your blabbering about the U2 report showing 15% unemployment, and your so called experts “outing” the real unemployment rate at a possible 22 percent we’ll likely be tanking into another 2008 GWB type economic disaster if your theories about reported unemployment and consumer confidence hold water.

    What in the world is the matter with you? Keep a lid on it.

  4. Ehill wrote: If you can’t even get simple facts like this right, why on earth should anyone take your opinions seriously?
    ________________________________________________

    Ehill has a very difficult time seperating opinion from fact. Ora Clark of Federal way cites a number of BLS statistics and simply opines that: “Both political parties have a vested interest in publishing the lowest believable figure. The higher it is, the lower the consumer confidence; lower consumer confidence leads to less spending and the deeper the recession will go.

    One more case of government manipulation. A pox on both houses.”

    One might ask ehill, “What simple fact did Ora distort or get wrong? More likely ehill thought that Ora’s LTE was an attack on Barack the magnificent rather than a well founded opinion that both sides of the aisle have a history of twisting bad news into acceptable news.

  5. sandblower says:

    As long as an unemployment rate is defined by well set criteria it is a measure of which way the current runs. What the current is matters most and right now the current is and has been positive since Obama became President and the corrective measures were put in place by the various actors. As long as 3 years ago, one of the budget offices in Washington said that full recovery would not happen until about 2017 based on the severity of the recession and the lack of stimulus it saw coming from the congress….(which was being controlled by the republicans whose only goal was to make Obama one term President.)
    4 MORE YEARS is the answer. Ryan-Romney are a disaster in waiting.

  6. “a well founded opinion that both sides of the aisle have a history of twisting bad news into acceptable news.”

    the letter-writer claimed that the U-6 rate “does not include workers who have given up and are no longer looking for work.”

    Wrong. 100% wrong. Try again.

  7. reformedliberal says:

    “If you can’t even get simple facts like this right, why on earth should anyone take your opinions seriously?”

    And with this thought in mind, what are we to think of the politicians who are trying to tell us the unemployment rate is really 8.2%?

  8. Dave98373 says:

    Only the actual unemployed and the local communities actually truly know the unemployment rates (which is far higher than the false reported numbers that our inept government reports!). All other government “official” published rates have long been manipulated to satisfy elected politicians. Anyone who has any faith in these “government” numbers are naive at best…corrupt at the worst.

  9. Seems thenewstribune has a double standard, those of us who are and on the right, have been called liars and rapists among other things today. But when I suggested BHO take a catapulted assisted leap off an aircraft carrier I was barred….I just want him to fly, fly away…Those who run this paper should start handing out red cards to the left for their vile innuendos…You guys …(fill in the blank) Let me make a wild prediction, you will be supporting BHO over Romney…No wonder your paper is losing readers…

  10. lamar – if you were band why are you still here?

  11. Too funny. Insert martini man joke here.

  12. beerBoy says:

    The same people who don’t believe the government’s veracity in self-reporting unemployment numbers have accepted the official 9/11 report as completely accurate. I guess the government only lies about employment numbers – not about a screw-up in national security.

  13. the3rdpigshouse says:

    bB – When are you going to stop blaming Bush??! Check the calendar – your country is in deep trouble primarily because of the anti-American “OH-Bummer”!!

  14. SwordofPerseus says:

    Well pig, by that same logic when are you going to quit blaming WWII on Hitler?

    To iamur – when you threaten the POTUS prepare for the worst. Nothing against the right, just those who are sociopathic racists like yourself.

  15. I wrote: a well founded opinion that both sides of the aisle have a history of twisting bad news into acceptable news.”
    ____________________________________________________

    Ehill says: “the letter-writer claimed that the U-6 rate “does not include workers who have given up and are no longer looking for work.”

    Wrong. 100% wrong. Try again.”
    ____________________________________________________

    Wrong? Not really but to be counted an individual ALSO have a desire to go to work. Tell me ehill, how does the government determine that an individual wants to work but manifests absolutely no effort to seek it? Only a true progressive understands such a deep seated but well hidden passion for productive labor.

  16. BeerBoy writes: The same people who don’t believe the government’s veracity in self-reporting unemployment numbers have accepted the official 9/11 report as completely accurate. I guess the government only lies about employment numbers – not about a screw-up in national security.
    ____________________________________________________

    John is skeptical about the BLS unemployment numbers.
    Many are skeptical regarding the oficial 9/11 report.
    Therefore John is skeptical regarding the official 9/11 report……..

    Nice piece of logic there BB????

  17. SwordofPerseus says:

    The real problem with unemployment in the US is that it is not going to get better soon. Not unless we face some serious problems and address the real causes of the current high unemployment levels.

    First of all the current free trade agreements do not create an incentive for manufacturing, this has to change.

    Second we need to enact some type of national jobs programs to kick start infrastructure rebuilding. Some type of private/public work projects for high speed rail, existing rail, power grid, bridges, dams and multitude of work that has been neglected for thirty years.

    Third a national clean energy policy to eliminate carbon based fuels in the US in the next 20 years. We went to the moon in ten years we could get off of oil, coal and natural gas in 20.

  18. Iamur wrote: when I suggested BHO take a catapulted assisted leap off an aircraft carrier I was barred….I just want him to fly, fly away…
    ________________________________________________________

    SOP tsked, tsked, then wrote: To iamur – when you threaten the POTUS prepare for the worst. Nothing against the right, just those who are sociopathic racists like yourself.
    ________________________________________________________

    To be a credible threat iamur must have access to an aircraft carrier and be familiar with the operation of an aircraft catapult. Does wishing for a new administration automatically brand one as a sociopathic racist? One cannot employ hyperbole in reference to a President? Relax SOP. It is Saturday. Dismount from the soapbox and enjoy the weaher.

  19. beerBoy says:

    John is skeptical about the BLS unemployment numbers.
    Many are skeptical regarding the oficial 9/11 report.
    Therefore John is skeptical regarding the official 9/11 report……..

    Nice piece of logic there BB????

    That “piece of logic” you wrote isn’t what I put forward so I will take your last sentence as a request for my approval on what you wrote. Sorry, your logic isn’t logical. And here is your fallacy.

    You have suggested that since B and C have similar traits they must be equal and therefore you have concluded that if
    A = B then A must equal C which, clearly can’t be supported because, while sharing similar traits B doesn’t equal C.

    What I pointed out is the paradox that individuals who assume that the government is not truthful when dealing with simple statistics like unemployment numbers oftentimes turn around and insist that the government must be trusted when it comes to more complex issues like 9/11. Clearly, your “logic” – while tangentially related to what I put forward – is not the same as mine.

  20. BeerBoy, is there such a thing as tangential logic? I don’t think so.
    I do note a bit of hedging in your explaination when you alter your paradoxial application from universal to an “oftentimes.”

  21. averageJose says:

    Ignore it oldoc, he’s run out of material so he keeps posting the 911 line you saw above. It’s like the 3rd or 4th time in as many days. Leads one to believe he’s a truther.

  22. Sonofwashington says:

    SwordofPerseus – You are absolutley right and thanks for offering a realistic approach to addressing the jobs situation regardless of the “actual numbers”.

    It should be noted that President “B. Hussein O-Bummer” and the Democratic members of the House have proferred several bills in Congress to do precisely those things, but the Republican Senate, led my Sen. Mitch McConnell, have obstructed every attempt to reduce unemployment. Quite obviously they have put their priority on attaining power for their party over the interests of the American people. IMHO, this borders on treason.

  23. LeePHilI says:

    Ora is a Republican hack, regular LTE submissions attacking Obama and such.

    Probably not much more than a copy/paste letter.

  24. LeePHilI says:

    beerBoy – “analogies” would not be this crew’s strongest Jeopardy subject.

  25. “Wrong? Not really”

    Yes, really. Here are the exact words from the letter-writer: “this figure is flawed since the U6 does not include workers who have given up and are no longer looking for work”

    Here are the exact words from the BLS page: “Persons marginally attached to the labor force are those who currently are neither working nor looking for work but indicate that they want and are available for a job and have looked for work sometime in the past 12 months.

    So please tell us all exactly how the letter-writer wasn’t wrong.

  26. “Does wishing for a new administration automatically brand one as a sociopathic racist?

    Nice tray. Failed, but nice. He didn’t wish for a new administration. He wished for the President’s death.

  27. nwcolorist says:

    IMO, we should chuck all the different unemployment rates and concentrate on the EMPLOYMENT rate. After all, without the employment rate, there wouldn’t be any unemployment rates.

  28. alindasue says:

    iamur said, “… I was barred…”

    How did you manage to post that you had been barred if you had been barred? It may have just been a Disqus glitch. I’ve encountered those before on more than one occasion. At any rate, it’s not to terribly smart to threaten a president, even if the threat is a joke or impossible for you to carry out. The Secret Service is notorious for its lack of a sense of humor…

    Ora Clark,
    Are you reading the same chart I found?
    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm

    If so, then the U6 figures on the chart not only include those who have “given up” but also those people who found part-time work in lieu of full-time work. (Read the note under the chart. It’s the same one that ehill quoted earlier.)

    So, if an employer doesn’t want to pay benefits and only hires people for 32-35 hours per week instead of 36-40, those employees would be included in the U6 numbers – even though technically those people are employed. THAT figure is the 15% that you cite.

    Those conditions you cite as “U6 report” would actually fall under the category of the U4 report, which is only .5% higher than the “official unemployment” figure.

    The U5 report, which does include “all persons marginally attached to the labor force” (that is, those who “are neither working nor looking for work but indicate that they want and are available for a job and have looked for work sometime in the past 12 months”), was at 1.6% above the official unemployment rate in July 2011 but now sits at 1.4% above the official unemployment rate as of July 2012. At any rate, it topped out last year at 10.9% – nowhere the 22% that “other experts” speculate.

    How those different measures compare to historic figure I can’t say until I find figures predating 2011 that are based on a similar set of scales.

    As for consumer confidence affecting the economy, there’s only so much that can be done about self fulfilling prophecies. The best that politicians (ANY politicians) or the media can do about that is, as you say, publish the lowest believable figure and hope the public buys it well enough to keep the markets flowing. As long as our economy is based on consumerism, that is pretty much how it has to be.

  29. Does wishing for a new administration automatically brand one as a sociopathic racist?” you ask…

    In today’s political circus, I’m afraid the answer is yes, Silly isn’t it? And sad.

  30. alindasue says:

    Typographical mistake count in my last post: 3.

    The only one worth mentioning though is the dropped word at the end of the third from last paragraph. It should read:

    …nowhere near the 22% that “other experts” speculate.

    Sorry for any confusion the dropped word may have caused.

  31. Sow/sop, BHO had a trillion dollars to do just that. Spent 10% on infrastructure.

    Somewhere in the 70s the amount govt ‘invests’ in America was surpassed by entitlements. We need to make govt sustainable before we kick off huge projects. Second, we make building and manufacturing in America affordable. The reform needed here is dramatic. Tort, environmental, labor, etc.

    Last, no pol cares about the long term, just the next election. We need to address a nation strategy that carries through from one admin to the next.

  32. alindasue says:

    sozo said, “Silly isn’t it?”

    Yes, it’s very silly. This whole name calling “racist-fascist-Marxist-commie-Obummer-Rawmoney” political circus is silly to the point of ridiculous. I, for one, am getting tired of it.

  33. alindasue says:

    CT8 said, “We need to address a nation strategy that carries through from one admin to the next.”

    Since most of the provisions of the Affordable Care Act AND Romney/Ryan’s “save Medicare” economic plan take place years after their current terms or expected terms end, I’d say that the politicians carry too much from one admin to the next.

  34. averageJose says:

    Any disagreement with the current administration paints you as a racist.

  35. averageJose says:

    … apparently “chair, kitchen cabinet, angry, and obamacare” are a few of the racist code words… if they’re used by anyone other than an Obama disciple… kooky.

    Where can I get my racist code word decoder ring?

  36. alindasue says:

    averageJose said, “Where can I get my racist code word decoder ring?”

    I don’t know. Why don’t you ask a “Marxist-commie-socialist”.

    Come on people! I know it’s the weekend, but it’s still only Saturday morning. How about we wait until at least Sunday before dragging this thread off onto another “I know you are, but what am I” tangent.

    The topics of this letter are unemployment numbers and the economy. Please, let’s nip this silliness in the bud and try to steer our comments back to those subjects.

  37. LeePHilI says:

    Interesting how Josie leaves out the real racist codewords and actions.

    I’m still wondering why Gerry Ford’s birth certificate wasn’t vetted, since he was born to another name other than Gerald R. Ford.

    Racism will end in the United States when people quit being cute about its existance.

  38. MyBandito says:

    How many of our good paying jobs have gone overseas? Let’s stop arguing about the jobless rate and go about the business of fixing the leak in our manufacturing bucket. Punish companies that outsource.

  39. Does wishing for a new administration automatically brand one as a sociopathic racist?” you ask…

    If those wishes are expressed in sociopathic and racist terms….Yes. But if they are expressed in intelligent and respectful matter – no – in spite of sozo’s claim.

  40. You can punish those companies after you make manufacturing affordable in America.

    The attack on wealth, Obamacare, lack of tax reform, our huge debt, an much more leave business with many reasons to manufacture elsewhere. Toss labor costs, environmental regs, energy, etc and you have a perfect storm of reasons not to manufacture here. We have two advantages, the quality of our labor and distance to market. They are not enough to tip the scales.

  41. Bb, please go back to the previous thread on Israel where you agreed with meno that I was racist. Then find one phrase or word that can be interpreted as racist.

    You are a hypocrite. You and the rest of the entitlement class scream racist as a default when you are out of rational or left wing debate points.

  42. MyBandito says:

    The only reason businesses manufacture elsewhere is the availability of offshore slave labor.

    It’s time to protect our economy.

  43. SwordofPerseus says:

    Conc – how do you propose to “make manufacturing affordable in America. I assume you mean the US, Costa Rica and Mexico are in America also.

    How, by lowering wages to compete with Chinese workers?

  44. Streamline our tax code. Control the EPA. Tort reform. While our labor is expensive the productivity can be agued to justify those prices. But couple higher labor costs on top of other large costs (compared to other nations) and we have a losing situation in America. Our legal system needs to be addressed. Small businesses are getting destroyed through frivolous lawsuits.

    Another very easy step is to stop demonizeing business and wealth.

    I do not think we can compete for high volume, low margin products with the likes of china. But we can compete in other areas if we just stop shooting our selves in the foot.

  45. Look at the success of Tx. Apply that model nationally.

  46. LeePHill who is a Democrat hack, regular LTE submissions attacking Romney and such writes: Ora is a Republican hack, regular LTE submissions attacking Obama and such.
    __________________________________________________

    As ehill would say….pot/kettle???

  47. I wrote: To be a credible threat iamur must have access to an aircraft carrier and be familiar with the operation of an aircraft catapult. Does wishing for a new administration automatically brand one as a sociopathic racist? One cannot employ hyperbole in reference to a President?
    _________________________________________________

    Ehill replied: “Nice tray. Failed, but nice. He didn’t wish for a new administration. He wished for the President’s death.”
    _________________________________________________

    Surely your “Messiah” could survive a ride on on the catapult of Iamur’s fanciful aircraft carrier. You certainly have an idiotic way of taking things literally except when confronted by real world facts.

  48. I wrote: To be a credible threat iamur must have access to an aircraft carrier and be familiar with the operation of an aircraft catapult. Does wishing for a new administration automatically brand one as a sociopathic racist? One cannot employ hyperbole in reference to a President?
    _________________________________________________

    Sozo replied: Does wishing for a new administration automatically brand one as a sociopathic racist?” you ask…

    In today’s political circus, I’m afraid the answer is yes, Silly isn’t it? And sad.
    ________________________________________________

    BeerBoy added: If those wishes are expressed in sociopathic and racist terms….Yes. But if they are expressed in intelligent and respectful matter – no – in spite of sozo’s claim.
    _______________________________________________

    As I wrote earlier to ehill…..Surely your “Messiah” could survive a ride on on the catapult of Iamur’s fanciful aircraft carrier. You certainly have an idiotic way of taking things literally except when confronted by real world facts. Somehow the repetition appears necessary to reinforce lessons apparently not yet comprehended.

  49. “You certainly have an idiotic way of taking things literally…”

    Pot. Kettle. Ring any bells? It should, especially since you just got through attacking someone else for doing it.

    “…except when confronted by real world facts.”

    Still waiting for you to post some.

  50. alindasue says:

    CT8 said, “Look at the success of Tx. Apply that model nationally.”

    I looked for information on the Texas success and found an interesting story in USA today.
    http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2011-06-20-state-gdp-growth_n.htm

    It gives several reasons for the growth of the Texas economy: “…natural resources, immigration and successful technology businesses while avoiding the real estate bubble…”

    What’s not in that list is any reference to government regulation and taxes – or lack thereof. The big kicker in there that separates Texas from many other states is that they avoided the real estate bubble that so devastated much of our country. Simply put, the real estate values didn’t inflate as much, so when the bottom dropped out they didn’t need to fall very far to normalize. (That’s why I’ve always found the concept of “getting rich” buying/selling real estate to be nothing but a silly pyramid scheme.)

    In an interesting aside…the article also notes, in regards to Virginia, that “The federal government-fueled suburbs of Washington, D.C., led this state and neighboring Maryland to a decade of prosperity.”

    MyBandito said, “Punish companies that outsource.”

    We already have sufficient punishments and regulations at this point. What we really need is do is instead of creating more tax breaks for businesses in general, we should cut back on those tax breaks and instead offer enhanced tax breaks BUT only to those companies whose employees are made up of 80-90% people living in the USA. One of my daughters pointed out that that would benefit smaller businesses more than huge corporations, but that’s a good thing. In reality, it is the smaller companies (under 5,000 employees each) that do the larger amount of overall hiring.
    http://www.census.gov/econ/smallbus.html

  51. MyBandito says:

    Alindasue- I agree. Rewarding companies that outsource our jobs is unpatriotic. We should be rewarding those who manufacture their goods here by giving them an advantage at the register. Tax imported goods 25% above the local sales tax. Our country can use the income.

  52. Ehill wrote: “You certainly have an idiotic way of taking things literally…”

    Pot. Kettle. Ring any bells? It should, especially since you just got through attacking someone else for doing it.
    ___________________________________________________

    Just a gentle reminder to one of the Hill boys that it is a favorite adage of the gang. When you say inane things you should very well expect that they will be characterized as idiotic.

  53. I wrote: Surely your “Messiah” could survive a ride on on the catapult of Iamur’s fanciful aircraft carrier. You certainly have an idiotic way of taking things literally except when confronted by real world facts.
    __________________________________________________________

    Ehill responded: Still waiting for you to post some.
    __________________________________________________________

    Please alert me when your mother is on hand to read them for you.

  54. beerBoy says:

    “Take a look at Texas”

    AUSTIN, Texas — Some in Texas had talked tough about solving the state’s budget problem by austerity alone, but lawmakers finally faced a hard fact: Texas is in serious financial trouble.

    The severity of the state’s $27 billion budget crisis was evident in the furrowed brows, sad eyes and pained expressions of legislators. They fidgeted in their seats as hundreds of teachers, parents and disabled people explained in testimony in recent weeks how proposed budget cuts would ruin their lives.

    Legislatures elsewhere are facing budget problems, but most are blending cuts with asset sales, increased fees and tax modifications to soften the impact. Texas prides itself on lean government so Republicans here promised to solve the crisis here by budget cuts alone.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/16/texas-economic-miracle-be_n_836885.html

  55. beerBoy says:

    Those 30% who were paying attention already knew this, of course. If you are a conservative who believed Perry’s bluster and agree with the conservative budgeting model because it’s worked so well in Texas, then you were suckered, again.
    Texas has a $25 Billion + deficit!

    The Texas deficit it worse than New York’s and about the same as California’s.

    http://www.texassharon.com/2011/01/08/rick-perrys-big-economic-lie-is-exposed/

  56. Texas has much smaller govt then Cali and an expanding economy. Nevermind the fact that Californians with money are flocking to Tx

  57. http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE71314420110204?irpc=932

    Now, for the rest of the story. Tx has $9bil rainy day fund. All states are being hammered by the Obamaeconomy.

  58. LeePHilI says:

    Can I purchase bus tickets for those Washingtonians who wish to move to Texas? Please let me know who you are.

    Much like Louisiana, Texas is swimming in money until the next hurricane hits, then they will turn to the Fed for money. I had to laugh when Jindahl claimed Obama “didn’t give him all the help he asked for”.

    If Texas has a wad of money, maybe they’ll invest in schools, where they rank 44th in the nation. Pretty sad for a state with a “rainy day fund”.

    http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2011/jan/31/wendy-davis/state-sen-wendy-davis-says-texas-ranks-44th-educat/

    How much Stimulus money did Texas take to bail out their deficit?

    http://money.cnn.com/2011/01/23/news/economy/texas_perry_budget_stimulus/index.htm

    Gotta love that Federal money, right Ricky?

  59. Do their residents pay federal taxes?

  60. averageJose says:

    Interesting how Josie leaves out the real racist codewords and actions.”

    That’s why I need your decoder ring, Larry PHill of Olympia. I don’t know what they are.

  61. beerBoy says:

    CT – Blue states pay more in federal taxes than they get back, Red states (you know, the ones who complain about the stimulus and such) receive more in federal monies than what they pay in taxes.

  62. beerBoy says:

    Speaking of federal monies…..

    The Federal Bailout That Saved Mitt Romney

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-federal-bailout-that-saved-mitt-romney-20120829?page=2

  63. beerBoy says:

    Summing up: The figures from our sources show two different trends. On an annual basis between 1981 and 2003, Texas almost always paid more in federal taxes than it got back from Uncle Sam. But since 2003 the reverse has been true, with Texas receiving more than it paid in five out of seven years, which is close to routine.

    So….for 3 years Perry’s Texas paid more taxes than it received in funding and then the Texas Economic “Miracle” occurred and the trend reversed!

  64. beerBoy says:

    Correction – for TWO years under Perry, Texans didn’t receive more in federally funding then they paid in federal taxes.

  65. beerBoy says:

    Just viewed this week’s political cartoons – fully expect an indignant letter from a Rightist complaining about the cartoons about the (not so) funnies in Tampa.

  66. LeePHilI says:

    ::::still providing relocation tickets to Texas::::

  67. http://dailycaller.com/2012/08/16/romneys-bain-saved-site-of-obamas-first-kiss/

    Bb, so what does that mean? You are implying that they are hypocritical? These programs all out there, and grow under every admin. The ‘red’ states should just let the ‘blue’ states take advantage of tax payer money? And we are talking about individuals, not state govt’s.

  68. LeePHill is: ::::still providing relocation tickets to Texas::::
    _____________________________________________________

    You might get a few takers if the ride was on Air Force One or at least the $1.1 million Obamabus.

  69. ::::willing to chip in a few bucks for relocation tickets to Texas, as well::::

  70. “the $1.1 million Obamabus”

    Ahh, another cheap shot. The bus was ordered by the Secret Service, not the president.

  71. That Canadian made tour bus? What a joke.

    He could of said ‘no’. Is he responsible for anything?

  72. http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/bus.asp

    If you move to Texas, would you raise the collective IQs of both states?

  73. So the bus was made in Canada and customized in America. Point?

    He just stay in Washington and actually work.

  74. He should…

  75. alindasue says:

    CT8,
    Did you read the article at the snopes link? There were two buses ordered by the Secret Service. The other identical bus is intended for the Republican candidate which would be Mitt Romney (and/or Paul Ryan).

    Only the shell of the bus was manufactured in Canada, which means that that “Canadian” bus has more USA parts and labor in it than many Fords or GM cars. We own three cars: a Dodge, a Ford, and a Chevy – all American brands. Only the Dodge was made in the USA, as was my friend’s Toyota.

  76. Ehill wrote: “the $1.1 million Obamabus”

    Ahh, another cheap shot. The bus was ordered by the Secret Service, not the president.
    _____________________________________________________________

    No, not really, just a random comment concerning the comfort of the ride.

  77. Alindasue, Romney is not the President yet. He has no vote on govt purchases.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obama-tour-bus-made-america/story?id=14324892

    There was a 100% made in America version they could have used.

    All that said, this is a silly distraction. Guilty as charged for adding to it.

  78. “just a random comment”

    Ahh, thanks for the admission. I’ll be sure to treat the rest of your comments as “random” from now on.

  79. “He [should] just stay in Washington and actually work.

    And of course the President NEVER works when he’s not in Washington, does he?

    “There was a 100% made in America version they could have used.”

    Oh? What was that?

  80. Read the link and it will answer that silly question.

  81. alindasue says:

    CT8 said, “All that said, this is a silly distraction. Guilty as charged for adding to it.”

    The man who deflects from issues by accusing others of deflecting now proclaims me “guilty” of adding to a “silly distraction” that he has already added three posts. Whatever.

    Given that the topic here is unemployment, and its inverse: employment, where merchandise purchased by the government is manufactured IS a natural outflow of the thread’s topic. I agree that the government should purchase items that are made in this country. However, if the items available do not suit the need, then they do they best they can to at least provide the most American jobs they can.

    To begin with, the president does not approve every line-item request by every department. The Secret Service ordered the buses from an American company. The American company, Hemphill, purchased the shell to build the bus with. In this case, it was the American company with the Canadian shell that had the bus that met the Secret Service’s needs for its security equipment (according to both ehill’s Snopes article and your ABC News article).

    If you have a crew of 14 to transport, do you buy a 15 passenger van from an American company that manufactures some of its cars in Canada or do you buy from the company that manufactures all of its cars in the USA but doesn’t sell anything larger than a 12 passenger van? (Don’t think too hard about it. It’s meant to be a very simple analogy.)

    Now, ideally, the company than manufactures all its vehicles (or parts of vehicles) in the USA would start designing a larger vehicle that would meet the need of the buyer, but until that happens, what are they to do, eh?

  82. Guilty as charged, as in I (CT8) am.

    Yes, the president does not of should not go line on govt purchases. But he is still responsible.

  83. LeePHilI says:

    “CT8 says:
    Sep. 2, 2012 at 5:15 pm Guilty as charged, as in I (CT8) am.
    Yes, the president does not of should not go line on govt purchases. But he is still responsible.”

    Well then…that would make Romney responsible for everything that takes place at Bain.

    Let’s return to the story about Bain cutting health coverage and a woman dying….

  84. LeePHilI says:

    “You might get a few takers if the ride was on Air Force One or at least the $1.1 million Obamabus.”

    One must be elected President of the United States to get such treatment. I wonder who paid for Palin’s Plush Palace. I sure there was a quid pro quo for that little deal.

    I seem to recall George W. Bush having such privilege to the point of making a midnight right to Florida to get involved in a state matter.

  85. If the bus was purchased half a decade after BHO leaves office in Jan, your parrellel might work.

    But nice deflections on top of 2 wrong make a right.

  86. took14theteam says:

    “CT8 says:
    Sep. 2, 2012 at 5:15 pm Guilty as charged, as in I (CT8) am.
    Yes, the president does not of should not go line on govt purchases. But he is still responsible.”

    Well then…that would make Romney responsible for everything that takes place at Bain.

    Let’s return to the story about Bain cutting health coverage and a woman dying….

    The above response (in bold) is exactly why the TNT Letters to the Editor blog is a joke now. Well not now, but for a year or more thanks to the _Hills.

  87. averageJose says:

    I just want my prog ‘U R a Racist’ decoder ring please…

  88. There was a pleasant period where the mods had him go away.

    It’s election season…

  89. There are three unemployment rates.

    One is used when your neighbor is unemployed. It’s called recession.
    The second is used when you are unemployed. It’s called depression.
    The third is when Jugears is unemployed. It’s called full employment.

  90. CT8 – whereas Congress tells the President How Much he can spend, and HOW he can spend it, where did the trillion dollars come from?
    Meantime, don’t panic, there are fire trucks with fully charged hoses and rescue/emt’s personel specially trained in pants fires.

    “streamline our tax code” = to the GOP that means NO taxes for those earning $250,000 per year,
    NO taxes on investment income, and
    NO taxes on Corporations.

    aJo – it’s not the disagreement that makes some on the right racist – it is the manner they express their disagreement that makes them racist.

  91. Haa poor economy my foot! I work 11 to 14 hrs a day, five days a week….

    All those poor people who Obama and the media love to cry about who are running out of unemployment benefits? I have no sympathy!

    If you cant find a job in the field you WANT….then re-train in a field where there ARE jobs!

    As far as the LTE….Even at the highest rate of 22%, which I think is hogwash, that still indicates 78 out of 100 people are WORKING!

    Lets break down that 22%….just throwing numbers around…Lets say 15% of that 22 are those who are too stubborn, stupid, or lazy to retrain into a productive field..that leaves 12%, of that 12 lets say 7% are unemployable for one reason or the other…that leaves 5 out of 100 who just dont want to work, and the weekly handout checks that the rest of us pay for, suit them just fine.

  92. LeePHill wrote: ::::still providing relocation tickets to Texas::::
    _____________________________________________________

    I opined: You might get a few takers if the ride was on Air Force One or at least the $1.1 million Obamabus.
    ____________________________________________________
    Ehill wrote: “the $1.1 million Obamabus”
    Ahh, another cheap shot. The bus was ordered by the Secret Service, not the president.
    _____________________________________________________________

    I explained: No, not really, just a random comment concerning the comfort of the ride.
    ________________________________________________________

    Ehill then said: Ahh, thanks for the admission. I’ll be sure to treat the rest of your comments as “random” from now on.
    ________________________________________________________

    Please feel free to treat any comment that I make concerning the Obamabus as a random comment. It is your idiot buddy LeeP who is offering bus rides to Texas for all conservatives. I just felt, in the spirit of liberal cooperation, that LeeP could get a few more takers if the ride offered was in a more comfortable and safe vehicle. You know, something like the Obamabus with foot thick windows, sleep-number cots and bullet proof ash trays.

  93. I wrote: “You might get a few takers if the ride was on Air Force One or at least the $1.1 million Obamabus.”
    ________________________________________________________

    LeeP explained: One must be elected President of the United States to get such treatment. I wonder who paid for Palin’s Plush Palace. I sure there was a quid pro quo for that little deal.

    I seem to recall George W. Bush having such privilege to the point of making a midnight right to Florida to get involved in a state matter.
    _________________________________________________________

    Since liberals are not bashful about sharing other people’s money I just assumed that you would be equally generous about sharing the creature comforts of the Obamabus.

    You must consider Palin’s Plush Palace a quid pro quo equal to the whopper of a deal Obama made with Tony Rezko for Michelle’s Magnificent Mansion in Chicago.

    I’m sure George’s midnight Florida flight was just as important as Obama’s use of a 747 for a 120 mile flight to Richmond, Virginia.

  94. beerBoy says:

    Lets say 15% of that 22 are those who are too stubborn, stupid, or lazy to retrain into a productive field

    Nothing quite like statistics created from speculation to support a non-reality based opinion…..

  95. LeePHilI says:

    “CT8 says:
    Sep. 2, 2012 at 9:52 pm There was a pleasant period where the mods had him go away”

    Did you say that eight times?

    I guess I hit pay dirt on the analogy about “responsibility”. I could hear the whining clear down in Olympia…..

  96. LeePHilI says:

    “15% of that 22″

    Let’s see. A math problem.

    If you have 22% of 100 that is “22”.

    15% of 22 is 0.033 (less than 1 or less than 1%)

    Yeah, I guess it would be fair to say that less than 1% could be “those who are too stubborn, stupid, or lazy to retrain into a productive field

    XBJ must have been trying to say that a small minority of the unemployed are abusing the system. I would agree.

  97. LeePHilI says:

    As President Barack Obama traveled to the first of two “town hall” stops in western Illinois today, top national and state Republicans criticized his campaign-style visit and criticized his use of a taxpayer-funded Canadian-manufactured bus as part of a jobs tour.

    But no mention was made by Republican National Chairman Reince Priebus or Illinois GOP Chairman Pat Brady that a re-election seeking President George W. Bush used a bus from the same manufacturer, Quebec-based Prevost, for a spring 2004 “Yes, America Can” campaign tour through the Midwest. – Chicago Tribune

    Uh oh…..

  98. Recheck that math, Hill. Not that I agree with that poster, but you look like an idiot correcting his math with the wrong answer.

    More ‘but Bush did it too!’. I thought we hired Mr Hope and Change?

  99. LeePHilI says:

    Mr. “I don’t know what CDB Is” is questioning my math?????

    OK….this should be fun.

    Prove me wrong. You have all the factors of the equation on your computer screen.

    Mr. Hope and Change?

    “I hope the Stock Market changes. It did….times 2″

    There’s enough hope and change for me and my investments.

  100. SandHills says:

    …and the beat goes on. Libs and cons today are like kids arguing about which one had their hand in the cookie jar.

    “Did so”

    “Did not”

    “Did so”

    “Did not”

    Bottom line, the economy is bad, still bad and not showing significant improvement, and unemployment is worse than “official” figures.

    The only other time it was this bad was when it took a whole lot of federal programs and finally WWII to pull The U.S. out pf a depression. Don’t know where all those jobs the GOP candidate is going to miraculously spring up from old tried but false trickle down economics – so maybe another WW might do the trick.

    The media keeps hinting that the economy is getting better, “we are about to turn a corner”. But either you live in a bubble are you are blind to see we are not. And yet colleges and high schools are pumping more into the work place with not enough job growth to make a dent in the job loss we’ve seen in the last 4-5 years.

    But keep rearranging those deck chairs to score partisan political points as we take on more water.

  101. LeePHilI says:

    Sand Hills – can you qualify what “bad” is, when speaking of the economy?

    Is it losses in the market?

    Is it unemployment levels?

    Is it the reluctance of the middle class to make purchases?

    It it the banks not lending money for major purchases?

    Frankly, I find the “economy is bad” to be somewhat self-imposed and a definite tool on the part of the Republicans to paint a picture that they want seen.

    The United States has seen worse economic challenges, and the Republicans have blown them off (see Reagan Administration). I’m old enough to remember the Nixon Wage and Price Freeze (actually Wage Freeze) when the Republican Administration was downright socialist.

    I’d like to know what makes this time so much worse.

  102. took14theteam says:

    Must be that Olympia fuzzy math again.

    When I type 22 enter 15 shift % on my HP calculator, I get 3.3.

    or 22*15/100 = 3.3.

    We all know they do things differently in Olympia.

  103. What is 15% of 22? And you know what the poster meant, you attempt at being a wiseass backfired.

    LPH- “less than 1 or less than 1%”

    Lol!

    SH- old and tired? You mean Keynesian economics? Bush kept ramming stimulus out, BHO tripled down, unemployment stuck at 8+%.

    You have not listened to one Romney speech or been to his website. No where is trickle down mentioned. What is mentioned is energy production and unleashing small businesses.

    Old and tired is the class warfare and long term unemployment. The guy never works and has no ideas, just Blame and Excuses.

  104. I though Reagan spent too much (like a dem!) and raised taxes (like a dem!) but now he ignored it? Millions of jobs created.

    What a joke. Stick to rhetoric provided to you and do not try original thought.

  105. SandHills says:

    On the issue of unemployment rate made up of stupid, lazy, I have to make a point. Many of us over 50 don’t even get a decent look at entry level for two main reasons.

    1. A young college grad is hungry, may take more crap from a 30 something supervisor, and may stick for awhile.

    2. An older employee has a full resume, with job history that is paying 2 or 3 times the salary. Younger supervisor may feel intimidated by such experience, and it is obvious that this older employee has a better chance to jump if a better job opens up (as they have that resume out there that a recent college grad don’t)

    There are many factors why so many have been unemployed for so long, but classifiying them as stupid or lazy, no that might be going a bit far – especially for someone who is lucky enough to be making so much overtime in a secure job.

    That does not mean there are not those out there gaming the system – the human race will always have them – but the unemployment numbers is not really telling the true story about how bad it really is out there in the job market – especially for older workers competing for entry level positions with their grandkids.

  106. a deal Obama made with Tony Rezko”

    Nice random comment. A falsehood, of course, but that’s hardly unexpected.

  107. SandHills says:

    CT, it was not private investors or the private sector that created jobs at the height of the Great Depression. I will grant that it was WW Ii war production that solved that more than all the CCC, WPA, etc jobs created by FDR.

    But don’t overlook that it wasn’t that these government programs offered any hope of having gated community homes and a second Benz in the garage (as the GOP wants people to believe – that you too can win the lottery). It provided hope to those who had all but given up hope. I would rather it be another WPA or CCC program created than payong off $700b in bad bank debt – but that is just my opinion. I simply can’t buy into the hype that somehow all those wealthy investors will create more jobs – when they haven’t done it so far with the tax cuts (and loop holds, and low capital gains taxes, tax shelters, off-shore accounts, tax deferred terust funds) they already have.

    Where is all that private investment coming from under a Romney admin that isn’t out there creating new jobs now?

    Oh, they want additional tax exemptions….while asking the middleclass to give up their mortgage interest deduction…

    Oh, yeah that should sell like hotcakes – not much different than the meat selling scam reported recently in the TNT.

    No, I don’t buy into any liberal selling me on a perfect utopia either. But we need new roads, bridges, electrical grids, and other infrastructure improvements that could be started on without waiting for private investers to get off their pots of gold.

  108. As I have pointed out before, entitlements crowded out investments in the 1970’s.

    Want more investments? Something has to give. The elephant in the room is the growing cost of payments to individuals. It cannot be ignored.

  109. LeePHilI says:

    “When I type 22 enter 15 shift % on my HP calculator, I get 3.3.
    or 22*15/100 = 3.3.”

    When you are calculating percentages, everything is less than 1.00, therefore you must imply the decimal point.

    Calculators can’t be right when you don’t know how to operate them

    When CT cheerleads your math calculations, you know you’re in trouble.

  110. LeePHilI says:

    Took…you fell for the misrepresentation. No surprise.

    XBJ was saying “15% of the 22% of unemployed”

    “As far as the LTE….Even at the highest rate of 22%, which I think is hogwash, that still indicates 78 out of 100 people are WORKING!
    Lets break down that 22%….just throwing numbers around…Lets say 15% of that 22″

    Therefore the correct caculator application is “.22 x 15%”

    No charge for the math lessons.

    Don’t mess with BTDT. Experience counts.

    ————

    CT – stick to cheerleading. Your idea of an original thought originated on American Thinker.

  111. LeePHilI says:

    Sand Hills – in the conservative world, there are jobs waiting on the shelf, just as soon as we have Republicans controlling all of the government at tax cuts take place.

    Just like the jobs that didn’t happen when the Republicans controlled all of the government and the tax cuts took place.

  112. SandHills says:

    CT the elephant in the room is a growing population. And while it would be highly Un-PC to say so, that
    population growth is not coming out of your (or my) world where individual responsibility is admired and respected.

    To say anything negative about “diversity” puts garners you a racist tag. But when diversity means acceptance of dependence on society rather than personal responsiblity (having kids, being able to raise them, taking responsibility for them is one of the most important examples I see), well we are getting away from the basics.

    There is a growing population that does not take personal responsibility as a prime aspect of being a citizen in a free society.

    That is the elephant in the room – and I believe may be better suited to eating peanuts from the left.

    A sober thought for anyone on the GOP choir who thinks their message can be sold to this growing demographic.

  113. LeePHilI says:

    “Haa poor economy my foot! I work 11 to 14 hrs a day, five days a week….”

    A sure sign of a strong back and a weak mind.

    Due to the cost of health care insurance, employers have calculated that it is cheaper to pay overtime for some employees, than to hire additional workers and have to pay for insurance for them, plus wages.

    Brilliant, huh?

    Now remember….THEY are the JOB CREATORS!!!

  114. And nothing like looking down on the guy who busts his rear to support his family. Your last comment could be a new low. I say this often, but you really should be ashamed of yourself.

  115. beerBoy says:

    Lee – the sad reality is that, as Chomsky declared, Nixon could be legitimately declared the last liberal President we have had.

  116. I wrote: “You might get a few takers if the ride was on Air Force One or at least the $1.1 million Obamabus.”
    ________________________________________________________

    LeeP explained: One must be elected President of the United States to get such treatment. I wonder who paid for Palin’s Plush Palace. I sure there was a quid pro quo for that little deal.

    I seem to recall George W. Bush having such privilege to the point of making a midnight right to Florida to get involved in a state matter.
    _________________________________________________________

    Since liberals are not bashful about sharing other people’s money I just assumed that you would be equally generous about sharing the creature comforts of the Obamabus.

    You must consider Palin’s Plush Palace a quid pro quo equal to the whopper of a deal Obama made with Tony Rezko for Michelle’s Magnificent Mansion in Chicago.

    I’m sure George’s midnight Florida flight was just as important as Obama’s use of a 747 for a 120 mile flight to Richmond, Virginia.
    _______________________________________________________
    Ehill eagerly rushed to support LeeP with: “a deal Obama made with Tony Rezko”

    Nice random comment. A falsehood, of course, but that’s hardly unexpected.
    ________________________________________________________

    Not at all random nor false, idiot. Read all about it on an ABC source. If there was a quid pro quo in Palin’s home purchase I’m sure your pal LeeP would substantiate it with a link.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/rezko-connection-obamas-achilles-heel/story?id=4111483

  117. LeePHilI says:

    “CT8 says:
    Sep. 3, 2012 at 12:30 pm And nothing like looking down on the guy who busts his rear to support his family. Your last comment could be a new low. I say this often, but you really should be ashamed of yourself.”

    No. Anyone who applauds an employer for working employees overtime, as oppose to hiring more employees, should be recognized for what they are.

    Those who can’t recognize when they are being worked to the employer advantage, can’t be stong of mind.

    You should be ashamed of yourself for not comprehending how employers lie on the issue of “give us tax breaks and we’ll provide jobs”.

    By the way, many people work to provide for their families – 92% of the workforce, to be exact. It’s no big deal, unless you are watching from the sidelines in envy.

    Did I say Palin got quid pro quo on her house? No, but it might make for a fascinating search, since she did get in trouble for her vacation home. I was pondering who picked up the tab for her RV….

    As to the “Resko” issue….that has been clarified for years…

    http://factcheck.org/2007/12/obamas-chicago-home/

  118. Did I say anything about tax breaks? No. You know who loves the temporary tax break? BHO. Since we both feel they do nothing except reward business that was going to hire anyway, what is your point? Oh, you feel BHO is doing a bad job getting people back to work.

    What if you are self employed (that is who tends to put in the most hours)? Or you hold two jobs to get your family ahead?

    Why does the left hate hard, honest work? Why is someone always the victim? Sad outlook on life in this land of opportunity (the opportunity took a four year BHO break but will come back in Jan with President Romney).

  119. LeePHilI says:

    “CT8 says:
    Sep. 3, 2012 at 2:05 pm Did I say anything about tax breaks?”

    Yes….many times you have said that job creators need tax breaks.

    “Why does the left hate hard, honest work?”

    Another baseless assertion.

    Unless you think over 50% of Americans don’t work (Obama voters in 2008), you constantly castigate over 50% of Americans.

    How do we know you work? Just because you say so?

  120. LeePHilI says:

    Anyone who is self-employed and works too many hours has only his boss to blame.

  121. LeePHilI says:

    “Oh, you feel BHO is doing a bad job getting people back to work.”

    Politicians can only create temporary employment. The need for a labor force is what creates jobs.

  122. took14theteam says:

    Those who can’t recognize when they are being worked to the employer advantage, can’t be stong of mind.

    Um, anyone who has HELD a JOB knows that they are being worked to the employer’s advantage. Why else would they hire someone?

    Earth to the _Hill.

    Oh, regarding the “math” problem. Can you EVER admit you are wrong? Do you always have to twist in the wind to justify your comments? Wait, you are a lefty troll, so that is a given….

    Hope you are tickling the ivory on this labor day.

  123. I stated additional tax breaks are needed? Please show me where.

    I will state we need low corporate tax rates competitive globally. They need to be stable and provide visability. The complexity of the tax code harms small business.

    Your attack on the self employed and/or those working 2 jobs is priceless.

    Stop dancing around what you just said. Should BHO give temporary tax breaks away or no?

  124. Not at all random nor false, idiot.”<i."

    Taking the high road again, eh?

  125. end italics

  126. “You know who loves the temporary tax break? BHO”

    Which of course has nothing to do with the temporary Bush tax cuts, does it? LOL

  127. “we need low corporate tax rates competitive globally.”

    We already have low tax rates. “Total corporate federal taxes paid fell to 12.1% of profits earned from activities within the U.S. in fiscal 2011, which ended Sept. 30, according to the Congressional Budget Office.” http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/02/03/418171/corporate-taxes-40-year-low/

  128. beerBoy says:

    “WE” don’t need the tax breaks for off-shoring jobs to compete globally – The corporations (not American citizens) need it to maximize profits.

  129. (“15% of that 22″)

    LeePHill….My mistake, after all it WAS pretty early for me and the coffee hadnt kicked in. Just take out the percentage symbols and use the simple arithmetic subtractions I intended.

    Now I know most people could figure that out, but then we ARE dealing with Tacoma’s finest, high caliber citizenry who jump at the chance to have an all day orgy over typos! HAAA!

    Either way, the lies about this being a poor economy are baloney. In my opinion of course! ;)

  130. wrote: “You might get a few takers if the ride was on Air Force One or at least the $1.1 million Obamabus.”
    ________________________________________________________

    LeeP explained: One must be elected President of the United States to get such treatment. I wonder who paid for Palin’s Plush Palace. I sure there was a quid pro quo for that little deal.

    I seem to recall George W. Bush having such privilege to the point of making a midnight right to Florida to get involved in a state matter.
    _________________________________________________________

    Since liberals are not bashful about sharing other people’s money I just assumed that you would be equally generous about sharing the creature comforts of the Obamabus.

    You must consider Palin’s Plush Palace a quid pro quo equal to the whopper of a deal Obama made with Tony Rezko for Michelle’s Magnificent Mansion in Chicago.

    I’m sure George’s midnight Florida flight was just as important as Obama’s use of a 747 for a 120 mile flight to Richmond, Virginia.
    _______________________________________________________
    Ehill eagerly rushed to support LeeP with: “a deal Obama made with Tony Rezko”

    Nice random comment. A falsehood, of course, but that’s hardly unexpected.
    ________________________________________________________

    Not at all random nor false, idiot. Read all about it on an ABC source. If there was a quid pro quo in Palin’s home purchase I’m sure your pal LeeP would substantiate it with a link.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/rezko-connection-obamas-achilles-heel/story?id=4111483
    __________________________________________________

    Ehill lamely responds: Taking the high road again, eh?_________________________________________________
    Stuck for a cogent answer again? What a suprise!! How ’bout pot meet kettle? Maybe attack the messenger? Deflection might work. Surely you can come with something better than taking the high road. Why not point out that an ABC source is right wing?

  131. CT8 notices and remarks, “That was some good tap dancing, hill. Not only was original math equation wrong, you knew what the original poster meant (i.e. 15% of the original 100, not 15% of 22 or 22%). You were, and are, just being an a hole.”

    You have to remember CT8, that twisting things around to make a pathetic point that supports the lies the Liberal crowd pass around is what they have to do since they haven’t got any REAL answers. No words? Just twist and deflect. Works for them like a charm.

    Haaaa Maybe THEY are the 7%!!! :D

  132. Effective rates. So you now support loopholes for large companies placed there through lobbying?

    Interesting. Why not just make the rate 15% make the tax code efficient?

  133. “Haa poor economy my foot! I work 11 to 14 hrs a day, five days a week….”A sure sign of a strong back and a weak mind.
    Due to the cost of health care insurance, employers have calculated that it is cheaper to pay overtime for some employees, than to hire additional workers and have to pay for insurance for them, plus wages.”

    No, actually a sure sign of a strong work ethic, a responsible motivation, and the desire to get a job done, and to chastise one for such values shows me a whiner who most likely hasnt got his fingers dirty in years, who ridicules those who do a valuble job with a skill he could never master. ;)

    By the way, I have pretty good health insurance, and you would shake in your shoes to find out what MY overtime amounts to. ;) By the way, I also ENJOY my job. Have fun with those assumptions little boy :D

  134. LeePHilI says:

    XBJ – thanks for being honest about the “22%”. It won’t help the others with their math challenges, but it’s nice to see that you learned the difference.

    I love the way you take joy in attacking others, but when someone brings up the obvious (you are not management material and don’t know why an employer would pay overtime versus hiring to avoid overtime pay) you get your undies in a bunch. If you can’t handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

    There is no assumption on my part about the mathmatical equation of paying overtime in lieu of health care costs. It’s a well known management tactic in today’s health care costs. Somehow, you seem to think I’m speaking ill of you personally, by bringing up the issue, when all I’m doing is clarifying the reason behind paying you so generously, instead of hiring addtitional workers.

    You seemed to try to elevate yourself above others by working overtime hours. I guess that makes me – a person with a full time salaried job that doesn’t pay overtime and who runs two small businesses – a REAL AMERICAN PATRIOT, huh? I could work this as you taking overtime pay from your employer, while I put in however many hours required to do the job, and I don’t require additional pay for it. Aren’t I just so special? Along with this I’m a “JOB CREATOR”, as I contract our portions of the other businesses I own. None of this would I do it I didn’t enjoy it…..oh, and did I mention? I’M A LIBERAL!!!

  135. LeePHilI says:

    Took14…..I don’t have to “admit that I was wrong”.

    As you can see, by the admission of XBJ – I wasn’t wrong.

    Thanks for your participation.

  136. “Stuck for a cogent answer again? What a suprise!! How ’bout pot meet kettle? Maybe attack the messenger? Deflection might work. Surely you can come with something better than taking the high road.”

    Still taking the high road, eh?

  137. Someone is very in love with themselves.

    And as you can see, what he was trying to say was clear. You decided to play games and attack based on a trivial mistake.

    Hope you feel like a big man now, Hill.

  138. “So you now support loopholes for large companies placed there through lobbying?”

    Where did I say that? Here’s a clue: I didn’t.

  139. took14theteam says:

    Where did I say that?

    I say Tomatoe, you say Tomato

    eHill PeeHill, doesn’t matter who says what, it is all the same.

    And I have been reminded once again why you don’t engage with a _Hill Troll. It is a colossal waste of time. One can get real dizzy and fall down trying to follow their justification for living.

    Have a nice afterlife boyz…..

  140. Took, of course they know they are spinning and lying. Part of following their train of garbage is to recognize that they know what they are seeing false.

    It is fun watching them justify and excuse failure (or like today attack WORKING). I do not have to click on one left leaning website, all the talking points can be found right here. The professional leftist pols cannot back up their points when pressed, so watching Hills twist and whine is very entertaining.

  141. LeePHilI says:

    took14theteam says:
    Sep. 3, 2012 at 8:14 pm Where did I say that?

    HERE:

    took14theteam says:
    Sep. 3, 2012 at 2:57 pm

    Oh, regarding the “math” problem. Can you EVER admit you are wrong?

    Next question???

  142. LeePHilI says:

    Uh…CT….you might want to check the last post. It’s called “copy and paste”.

    Verbatim. There ain’t no twisting copy and paste.

    I don’t expect you and Took14 to have the slightest clue on the issue of mathmatics. Took14 has demonstrated math deficiency before and you…well…all I need to say is “CDB”.

    As to Took14’s statement about avoiding interaction with me, I’m betting that resolution will last about as long as the last one did.

    XBJ wanted to take issue with unemployed workers and make a baseless assetion about how many are allegedly “lazy” etc. I just decided to take the statement at face value. Hell…I even agreed.

    Rule #1 – if you are going to make an arrogant attack like XBJs, you might want to make sure that you know what you are saying, because there is someone like me, more than willing to take you on your written word.

    For those who are math challenged, 15% of 22% is .033. Try using multiplication of decimal numbers. Now had XBJ said that 68% of the alleged 22% were “lazy”, it might have been closer to what was being attempted to be said (divide 15 by 22) Or….one could say that “of the 22% unemployed, 15 of that 22% was…..”

    You see, it’s all in how you express yourself.

    I could say that CT is 100% false in his assertions or I could say that CT is false in his assertions 100% of the time. Either way, it works.

  143. “15% of that 22 “. Original post.

    You got caught being a wise guy, then changed his post to suit your screw up. Did you know what he was driving at or do you have an issue with comprehension?

    Still waiting for the link to CDB in the federal budget….

    On top of that, I just came out and asked you what it meant. After some searching, only a group of photographers uses that term. Call it humble or curious on my part, you have just proven yourself an (insert three letter word for backside).

    Be better then this Hill. Act your age. Given how bad BHOs approval rating is and that RCP average has it in a dead heat, I can see why you are looking for a win. Seek elsewhere, you are thoroughly outmatched.

  144. beerBoy says:

    you knew what the original poster meant (i.e. 15% of the original 100, not 15% of 22 or 22%).

    You don’t know what he knew.

    I didn’t know that that was what the poster meant.

    It doesn’t matter anyway – as I pointed out upthread – that “statistic” was created completely from the poster’s imagination.

  145. ItalianSpring says:

    22% sounds about right, but I think it may be higher.

  146. I posted: “Stuck for a cogent answer again? What a suprise!! How ’bout pot meet kettle? Maybe attack the messenger? Deflection might work. Surely you can come with something better than taking the high road.””
    ____________________________________________________________

    Ehill wrote: Still taking the high road, eh?
    ___________________________________________________________

    Oops, I forgot to add projection to the list. Here is one you frequently employ but do not mention. Let’s call it IGNORING THE FACTS, or ITF. Whenever faced with an uncomfortable set of facts, you simple ignore them and employ one of your time tested ruses to blur the conversation. Did you read the ABC link regarding the quid pro quo the Obama’s made with Tony Rezko regarding purchase of the Chicago house? I’ll accept ITF as your answer.

  147. Bb, since he came back and clarified, and I was correct, obviously I did.

  148. MyBandito says:

    How to keep trolls busy on long weekends.

  149. beerBoy says:

    Wow….you guys will argue about anything, including statistics that the author acknowledged that he made-up.

  150. LeePHill writes, “I love the way you take joy in attacking others, but when someone brings up the obvious (you are not management material and don’t know why an employer would pay overtime versus hiring to avoid overtime pay) you get your undies in a bunch. If you can’t handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen…”

    Haaa You’re a riot! Attacking others? Sheesh that about all I see ANYONE doing in these neanderthal posts, regardless of topic. I swear if anyone in another part of the world went online and read this swill (and they do!) the first thing people would say about Tacoma is….”What a bunch of childish retards!!”

    Now then ExpertHill….What gives you the presumptious notion that I am not “management material”? Haaa! I wont even honor you with words on THAT one! By the way, presumption and assumption does seem to be the prevalent tools in this silly place! And by the way I understand full well how some corporations will pay the extra overtime to avoid extra hires. It’s a management practice that has existed for years. In our case they’d just rather pay for the quality of the existing workforce. We just haven’t got the time for the required excessive training and risking a catastrophe on the inexperienced.

    Now I get to be presumptuous! Haa! I notice you are on these threads ALL day…..My guess is maybe you are one of those “unemployable” :D Another “LIBERAL” (as you’ve expressed) on the public dole perhaps? :D

  151. Beerboy writes, “Wow….you guys will argue about anything, including statistics that the author acknowledged that he made-up”

    Haaa! Beerboy, youve been around here long enough to know thats just the way things are here in Tacoma! :D

    I had some notion years ago, that you were above the trivial pursuits of Tacoma, and that was why you left?! :D

  152. LeePHilI says:

    “CT8 says:
    Sep. 3, 2012 at 9:35 pm “15% of that 22 “. Original post.”

    CT…now I have to provide reading lessons along with math?????

    “15% of that 22″ would refer to the “22%”, thus “15% of 22%” which is .033.

    No wonder you people are so good at misquoting the President. You can’t read and don’t comprehend what is being said.

  153. LeePHilI says:

    XBJ sure is missing the 11-14 hours yesterday and today, unless he/she doesn’t sleep.

    Now then ExpertHill….What gives you the presumptious notion that I am not “management material”? Haaa! I wont even honor you with words on THAT one!

    Uh….you just did. Maybe that, in itself, says everything.

    XBJ, since we are having the “I’m bigger than you are” contest…

    On Sunday, I clocked spent 3 hours on one of my clients and billed them $120. How much per hour, straight time, do I charge? Mind you, “straight time” doesn’t require putting in eight hours first to get that hourly rate….

  154. LeePHilI says:

    “I notice you are on these threads ALL day…..My guess is maybe you are one of those “unemployable”

    You’ve somehow mistaken me for CT.

  155. That was pretty weak. Try again

  156. beerBoy says:

    XBJ – you remind me of Dale. Do you have a new handle?

  157. LeeP poster: “CT8 says: Sep. 3, 2012 at 9:35 pm “15% of that 22 “. Original post.”

    CT…now I have to provide reading lessons along with math?????

    “15% of that 22″ would refer to the “22%”, thus “15% of 22%” which is .033.

    No wonder you people are so good at misquoting the President. You can’t read and don’t comprehend what is being said._
    ______________________________________________________

    LeeP is quite obviously one of those people who just CANNOT admit a mistake. I give him credit for his mule headedness though….it is consistent.

  158. LeePHilI says:

    Oldoc….what is the “mistake”?

    You’re cloning Took14….

  159. olddoc – ‘15% of the 22%’ proplerly means ‘15% of the whole’,

    as in ’22 of 100 people’ have blond hair; and

    ‘of those 22 people, 15 also had blue eyes’.

  160. X and LP…..does 15% of 22% make any sense at all in the context of the letter? Of course it does not!

  161. LeePHill writes, “On Sunday, I clocked spent 3 hours on one of my clients and billed them $120. How much per hour, straight time, do I charge? Mind you, “straight time” doesn’t require putting in eight hours first to get that hourly rate….”

    Thats all? For three hours LeeP? Really? :D

  162. Beerboy……Due to covert, clandestine operations I am not at liberty …… :D

  163. Whoever that guy is Beerboy…..He seems to have maintained to knack for really twisting the trolls diapers huh? HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

*
We welcome comments. Please keep them civil, short and to the point. ALL CAPS, spam, obscene, profane, abusive and off topic comments will be deleted. Repeat offenders will be blocked. Thanks for taking part and abiding by these simple rules.

JavaScript is required to post comments.

Follow the comments on this post with RSS 2.0