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ISRAEL: Dangers of pre-emptive attack on Iran

Letter by Donald J. Fritz, Tacoma on Aug. 24, 2012 at 12:59 pm with 89 Comments »
August 24, 2012 12:59 pm

Charles Krauthammer discusses possible Israeli pre-emptive war with Iran (column, 8-24) without mentioning Israel’s nuclear stockpile estimated (in a national publication) at 75 or more warheads.

If Israel launches a conventional bombing strike at Iran, there are three possible outcomes:

• Most Israeli planes are downed, with limited damage to Iran’s nuclear facilities, some of which are constructed underground.

• Damage by airstrike is considerable, in which case Iran might chance a counterattack, knowing that Israel might escalate to a nuclear strike or the United States might intervene militarily.

• Damage of the initial airstrike is considerable, but Iran decides that discretion is the preferred response and goes to the U.N. as “victim” of “unprovoked aggression.”

If the second alternative happens, then the U.S. would have an immediate decision to make: intervention or possible (probable?) nuclear war.

Perhaps Krauthammer really believes that Israel would restrain itself while 50,000 rockets (his estimate) rained down upon it, but I doubt that.

Israelis have been trying to push the U.S. into war with Iran for at least the past year. Of the presidential candidates of both major parties, only Ron Paul has indicated that a new U.S. pre-emptive war would be out of the question were he president.

Other Republicans seem avid to launch a war, although the Bush administration did nothing of the sort when North Korea was about to join the nuclear club. Public discussion of this critical issue is needed.

Leave a comment Comments → 89
  1. truthbusterguy says:

    Why wait? With obama’s affinity for Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood, and any form of Islamic ideology, he and his administration are a threat to Israel.

    Makes me want to join the IDF.

    Thank you Americas: socialists, Marxists, commies, and false idol worhippers for electing an unvetted, fraudulent narcissist with a personality disorder.

    It’s going to happen sooner than later so like the song says, “bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran.

  2. Frankenchrist says:

    You want to throw some hands with the jihadists? Join the IDF, tough guy. It’s about time you served in someone’s military. You talk the talk, do you walk the walk?

  3. menopaws says:

    truthbuster guy–do you mean Nethanyahu?????? That is what many Jewish people I know have to say about him……….Israel can do as the damn well please—but, if they want our help, it better be with real leader……Not some mid-life crisis warrior who doesn’t appear to know when to hang up his guns……..He barely won his last election—so some of the citizens of Israel have some questions too……..Never found a war you aren’t willing for others to fight, have you?????

  4. SandHills says:

    Frankie, kinda out of your league espousing expertise in Air Power aren’t you? I can assure you the F-15Is do have the range, the ordnance, and the Command and Control to do the job if they decide to do so – albeit they would feel a bit more confident with some active U.S. support, rather than having to tug on that loose leash we hold them by with our military aid.

    I suspect the Mossad will have a bit more accurate intel than our CIA gave GW on WMD in Iraq. There is a red/go line that when crossed Israel will jump, with or without the concurrence of POTUS (but I suppose Netanyahu would feel better that his back is covered by his long-time friend Mitt).

  5. SandHills says:

    Oh to add, the main issue is support bases to recover….I would not necessarily rule out that even the Saudis might allow a Star of David to land at one of their remote bare bases to strike at those nasty Shiites….

    Flight of fancy, maybe, but strange bedfellows with a common cause. The recovery bases might be the only stumbling block in an Israeli strike plan, not the capability of the IDF planes or crews. But again, if the Mossad is confident of Iran’s nuclear capability approaching weapons…well suicide missions would not be unique for Israel, as Entebbe was planned as one.

  6. LeePHill says:

    * 10-Point Disability: You are entitled to 10 point veterans’ preference if you are a former member of the Armed Forces who was separated under honorable conditions and have a service-connected disability that is 10 percent or less, but the Veterans Administration has not awarded any compensation.
    * 10-Point Compensable: You are entitled to 10 point veterans’ preference if you are a former member of the Armed Forces who was separated under honorable conditions and have a service-connected disability that is at least 10 percent, but less than 30 percent, and you are receiving disability compensation from the Veterans Administration.
    * 10-Point Other: You are entitled to 10 point veterans preference because you are (a) the spouse or mother of a veteran occupationally disabled because of service-connected disability, or (b) the widow/widower or mother of a deceased wartime veteran.
    * 10-Point/30 Percent Compensable – Veteran: You are entitled to 10 point preference if you have a service connected disability of 30 percent or more.

    So…you quality by having up to 10% disability or are a dependent of one who does?

    What does that have to do with having the good sense to know that nuclear weapons are stupid for everyone.

  7. LeePHill says:

    Monday morning quarterbacking is not what we need in charge of nukes

  8. Frankenchrist says:

    Sandhills,

    The IAF doesn’t have aerial refueling and I don’t believe one=way missions are part of their doctrine. Familiarize yourself with a map of the Middle East and the IAF’s inventory of aircraft & ordnance and tell me I’m wrong.

    truthy, so your another vet sucking off the U.S. taxpayer, huh? Good job on the ten points. What was the name of the doc you goofed with your made-up ailments? Send us a postcard from Israel, too.

  9. Frankenchrist says:

    LeePhil,

    Coneheads in the U.S. Chair Force are the only morons who recklessly advocate nuclear war. Fortunately, we keep them deep underground and out of the way.

  10. SandHills says:

    Frankie, you are wrong on aerial refueling, and at only a bit over 900 miles from Israel to Tehran, well I guess you need a geography lesson.

    Oh and you would be surprised how familiar I am with the inventory of the IDF…..

  11. Frankenchrist says:

    OK, whatever. I’m not an expert by any means nor claim to be one. I suspect the IAF may have a secret treaty with one of Iran’s neighbors (not Saudi) so that might take care of the range issue.

  12. SandHills says:

    Didn’t get your derogatory USAF slap at your betters either Frankie, or is it just an inferiority complex showing through Frankie.

    Actually since SAC was disbanded, the Air Force has largely been led by fighter jocks – not the cigar chomping general seen in Dr. Strangelove, probably where you gained any knowledge of the military from your own easy chair….

  13. Frankenchrist says:

    The only thing good about the USAF is they let us jump out of their airplanes.

  14. SandHills says:

    Or get you to where you need to be, or more importantly get you out of where you don’t want to be and if you have ever been in a fire fight and had to call in air support….

    Oh heck Frankie, just stick to what you know best….being a smarta$$ on a blog.

  15. No wars for Israel. or rather…..no MORE wars for Israel.

  16. Harry_Anslinger says:

    truthbusterguy = Cheney/Ashcroft mini-me.

    Marxist Socialist Commie Muslim blah blah blah. If you actually are a sucker for that low IQ rhetoric sad for you, truthbluster.

    It seems like this administration, while idiots throw around those absurd terms above without even knowing what they mean or how/if they even pertain to this administration, has over all been fairly moderate. Notice I didn’t say effective.

  17. For those ignorant of the previous Israeli strike against a nuke site-

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Opera#section_3

    Meno- “crisis warrior”? How about a real warrior! You obviously know nothing about that man or why he laughed at BHO when he tried to tell Israel how to defend themselves. His speech at the UN was epic. The day we stop funding the UN will be a great day for America and freedom.

  18. John Cleese Orders Strike on Iran in Israeli Ad for Chocolate Spread Um, what?
    http://www.adweek.com/adfreak/john-cleese-orders-strike-iran-israeli-ad-chocolate-spread-143074

  19. menopaws says:

    CT*—I don’t think that Nethanyahu is good for Israel….since I have friends who actually live in Israel–trust me when I tell you, many of his own citizens feel the same way….He won his last election by a whisper………You want to watch Romney kiss up and pretend he knows what he is talking about….go for it……Shimon Perez is critical of Bibi………His “laughing” at BHO in front of the press in the White House was rude, racist and the reason Obama does his duty with Israel and waits for this pig to be sent off to the old warriors home………..NO President should be lectured by another leader in front of the press—but, hey, all you Tea Baggers think bad manners is a sign of courage….It’s just a sign of ignorance and bad breeding……Ask Ann Romney about that……”You people” should understand her attitude, right? One last thing—if Israel can do this by themselves, why is Bibi kissing up to Congress and Romney and trying to get more money from American Jewish groups???? He is soo competent–he should be able to go for it on his own……..Seems this great warrior is having some problems walking the walk—but he sure knows how to flap his mouth for the talk…….

  20. Race card comes out, its the end of rational arguments.

    And no, I do not “trust” you or your friends in the west bank. There are liberals everywhere that hate real men, the warriors, because they are weak and hopeless themselves leaving the full of envy. They hate the people that provide the charity they receive but do not deserve.

    ……………..,,,,,

  21. Frankenchrist says:

    Just a little inter-service rivalry fun, Sandy. No need to get spiny.

  22. LeePHill says:

    “There are liberals everywhere that hate real men, the warriors, because they are weak and hopeless themselves leaving the full of envy.”

    Gawd, I am so glad that we are not an archaic society that finds ourselves ruled by this kind of testosterone addict.

    “Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!!!”

  23. The leftist world of handouts, entitlement, and art relies on real men and women, producers and warriors, to pay for their leftist ideals. They rely on real men and women of action to keep them safe and defend the weak.

    Go out and thank a conservative.

  24. Go out and thank a conservative.

    Since so few of the conservatives in politics ever served, that might be hard to do.

    Go out and thank Mitt “I was in France” Romney or Paul “I voted for the defense cuts before I was against them” Ryan!

  25. Some conservatives who didn’t serve – even why speaking out in support of warring

    http://www.nhgazette.com/chickenhawks/

  26. The leftist world of handouts, entitlement, and art

    “And art”????

    You have some odd hangups.

  27. Some other folks who had and issue with art:
    Hitler
    Stalin
    the Taliban.

  28. SwordofPerseus says:

    More Crusading, more militaristic misadventures in the Far East. Who the hell would think this is a good Idea? War like morons that’s who.

    How about we act like adults for a change and try Dip-lo-macy. Yes the State Department is much cheaper than the War Department to operate successfully. The War Department has run our foreign policy for too long now. Time to close every single military base outside the US borders. Reduce the standing army, navy and air force to minimal size (100,000 total troops Officers and all). Sell off excess bases in the US too. Transfer all military R&D spending to infrastructure and clean energy. Gradually move to needs based economy vs. consumer based economy.

  29. menopaws says:

    CT8—-You don’t trust the Israeli people now????? Want to hop a plane and run over there and tell them they are toooo liberal???? Let me know how that works out for you……..Go do your whack job moment with Fox News and try to remember that YOU are NO warrior………You flap your mouth and usually don’t know one damn thing about what you are talking about…….Your worship of Nethanyahu might be funny, if it wasn’t so damn stupid……..This country will support Israel—doesn’t mean we support an aging showboat like Nethanyahyu….who also ignored Bush’s efforts for talks about West Bank settlements……..His behavior with those Palestinians borders on some of the same abuse you saw during the early days of the Syrian uprising……Bush called him on it, most of Europe is appalled by it, and frankly, those Republicans with honor have some concerns too……..Go do your homework……..You honestly don’t have a clue about how those Palestinians are being treated by his government , do you????

  30. SwordofPerseus says:

    “A great war leaves the country with three armies – an army of cripples, an army of mourners, and an army of thieves.” ~German Proverb

  31. SwordofPerseus says:

    “What a cruel thing is war: to separate and destroy families and friends, and mar the purest joys and happiness God has granted us in this world; to fill our hearts with hatred instead of love for our neighbors, and to devastate the fair face of this beautiful world. ~Robert E. Lee, letter to his wife, 1864

  32. SwordofPerseus says:

    This is one of my favorite authors, his take on the subject…

    “O Lord our God, help us tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with their little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it.” ~Mark Twain, “The War Prayer”

  33. “The soldier above all others prays for peace, for it is the soldier who must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war.”. Gen MacArthur.

    No meno, I don’t trust your sampling of far left Palestinians with a chip. You ignore thousands of rockets. Shame on you.

  34. You ignore thousands of dead Palestinians. Shame on you.

  35. If you start a fight by swinging a bat, and the other guy shoots you in the face, I have no sympathy for you.

  36. menopaws says:

    CT8–shame on you…Historically those Palestinians have legal right to that land……….But, hey, you beat the drum you are told to beat………..Independent thought is not your skill……..Nice little propaganda troll…….Study the history of Jerusalem and the West Bank….Both sides have legitimate claims…….But, hey, your and the warriors aren’t interested in history……..Just roll over the poor and disinfranchised……This isn’t right or left you moron–but, hey, you don’t care about reality, do you???? beerboy said it–shame on you for your intolerance and raw IGNORANCE………Your prejudice is stunning in it’s scope and stupidity…..

  37. I expect you to hand the keys to your house to the next native American you come across.

    When the poor start launching rocket they lose any right to sympathy. We are not talking peaceful protests here, but acts of terrorism.

    Look where they get their support from. A hostile regime that hates us. That is who side with? The Iranians? A modem day Jane Fonda. Good for you.

    Reality is that Palestinian terrorism is just the cause of the day for the radical left. You are simply a puppet.

    Open your mind. Think rationally and as an American.

  38. LStrong206 says:

    Israel must defend itself from an Iran that wants to wipe it off the earth … much like Hitler tried. If anyone thinks that Obama’s word that he will stand with or behind Israel is worth anything must have their heads in a cloud. His word is worthless and he is both naieve and inept anyway.

  39. In the last 5 years, 76 Israelis were killed by Palestinians. Ten were children.

    In the same time period, 2,505 Palestinians were killed by Israelis. 516 were children.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict#Fatalities_1948.E2.80.93present

    In 2011 alone, 384 Israelis died in traffic accidents. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

    Maybe Israel should declare war on its own drivers.

  40. LStrong – there is no Iran that wants to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. The Israeli translation of the Iranian president’s speech was incorrect.

    I have no problem with Israel defense – I do have a huge problem with Israel offense – and, more to the point, those Americans who think it is America’s duty to spend our treasure and service personnel in the service of Israel’s imperialistic designs.

  41. menopaws says:

    CT8–did you see the figures ehill provided????……..Now, please shut up and quit spouting ignorant garbage…………Aren’t you EVER ashamed by how little you know???? Name call all you want—it is embarassing to listen to you………Knowledge is power…You never figured that out, did you?

  42. What was the other top

  43. What was the other topic where right-leaning posters cited traffic deaths and the left planted the BS flag (I also thought it was a mental stretch)? Very hypocritical and childish comparision.

    Yes I saw the numbers. Bring knife to a gun fight…..fight with a bull you get the horns.

    I question all numbers, but for the sake of debate we will say they are accurate. Do you blame the Israelis who are returning fire or the dirtbag that fired the opening shot? They fire from populated areas knowing the Israelis will return fire in self-defense. So you expect them to sit idle while it rains rockets and mortars? Grow up.

    Turn off your bleeding heart for a second and imagine you were an Israeli living somewhere close to the border.

    Knowledge is power. You have never been on the receiving end of a rocket. Heck, ask your relatives what OUR response is when a rocket is fired on a US position overseas.

  44. ct – you are ignoring the Terrorist Settlers.

  45. “What was the other topic where right-leaning posters cited traffic deaths and the left planted the BS flag (I also thought it was a mental stretch)? Very hypocritical and childish comparision”

    Citing traffic numbers: good when wrong-wingers do it, “hypocritical and childish comparison” when anyone else does it. Thanks for yet another excellent example of the term “double standard”.

    “Do you blame the Israelis who are returning fire or the dirtbag that fired the opening shot”

    Congratulations. You just justified attacks on this country by Iraq. After all, we fired the opening shot on them.

  46. Antisemitism grew out of Jews being punished collectively for the death of Jesus. This culminated in the wholesale slaughter of Jews in Auscwitz. To atone for Euro-Christian guilt over this tragedy they gave them Palestinian lands – effectively transferring guilt for European/Christian antisemitism onto the Palestinians through collective punishment.

  47. Reread my post, ehill. I thought gun vs auto stats were stupid then and your connection is equally as stupid, if not more so.

    We attacked Saddam, not the Iraqi people. The thousands of rockets are not aimed at military targets. But once again I see another leftist jumping to join Iran in a call for terrorism.

    Bb- do not re-write history. The Jewish claim to that land goes back thousands of years. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel#_

  48. Mdenopaws wrote: CT8–did you see the figures ehill provided????……..Now, please shut up and quit spouting ignorant garbage…………Aren’t you EVER ashamed by how little you know???? Name call all you want—it is embarassing to listen to you………Knowledge is power…You never figured that out, did you?
    __________________________________________________________

    A careful reading of the posts on this thread reveals no name calling by CT8. Menopaws who frequently calls upon all other posters to be civil and exercise verbal restraint when arguing on this forum, cites CT8 as ‘stupidly prejudiced’ and “spouting ignorant garbage”. She also calls CT8 a troll and a moron………..Now that is what I call exercising verbal restraint. “Name call all you want”, Menopaws. I agree it is embarassing to listen to you.

  49. “We attacked Saddam, not the Iraqi people”

    ROFL – tell that to the Iraqi people. How many dead Iraqi civilians were there?

    “once again I see another leftist jumping to join Iran in a call for terrorism:

    Unlike your god Reagan, who sold them arms.

  50. menopaws says:

    We killed 100,000 Iraqi civilians—-We didn’t just bomb the Palace–we bombed all of Baghdad….Remember “shock and awe”????Again, more STUPID arguments to justify that which has NO justification…….So, even if we didn’t have a problem with Iraqi citizens……..those bombs fell on them…….This country should hang it’s head in shame for what WE did in Iraq……And, many of us don’t want a repeat of that kind of foreign policy AGAIN……….
    oldoc—Ct8 is the master of the 10 word spin. No knowledge, no facts, yet he makes fun of “lefties, liberals and NEVER backs it up with anything factual………..Knowledge is power–outside of what spin he hears on talk radio and Fox News, he brings NO knowledge to any argument. ehill gave him numbers, I mentioned statements from people I know who live in Israel and neither one of us had anything relevant to say…We were treated badly by someone who brought NOTHING of value to this discussion…….So, yes–he is STUPID, INSULTING and a brain dead Troll……….And, if you want to dive on his mat—-remember people are indeed judged by the company they keep…….ehill gave facts–CT8 continues to dismiss those who believe differently and also implies we are weak or stupid…….Go play in that shallow sandbox—not enough sand to cover your toes…….

  51. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/rockets2011.html

    Here is a number for you, 1100 attacks just from Gaza. Have you ever been near a rocket attack? Did you ask your close relatives what our response is in similar situations?

    If your son or daughter was part of the initial invasion of Iraq, what kind of action would you want to be ahead of them? What a silly argument. No, let’s not use our air power to destroy an enemy’s capabilities.

    Should I send an Indian over to collect your keys….

  52. “Here is a number for you, 1100 attacks just from Gaza.”

    And here’s a number for you from your own source: “Since 2009, the rocket barrages have … directly led to the death of 7 innocent civilians.”

  53. “I thought gun vs auto stats were stupid then”

    funny, I don’t recall you saying anything of the kind.

  54. The Jewish claim to that land goes back thousands of years.

    From wikipedia
    The region has been controlled by numerous different peoples, including the Ancient Egyptians, Canaanites, Ancient Israelites, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Ancient Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, the Muslims, the Crusaders, Ayyubids, Mameluks, Ottomans, the British and modern Israelis and Palestinians.

    Why is the ancient Israeli connection to the land the ONLY one that counts? The Palestinians had a much longer recent connection to the land than Ashkenazi Jews from Germany and Eastern Europe whose ancestors NEVER lived there.

  55. Your list shows who controlled it, not who lived there. Big difference.

    I guess you are joining meno in retuning your home to the native Americans.

    Ehill- 2 steps. 1) find the thread, 2) feel defeated as usual.

  56. “I guess you are joining meno in retuning your home to the native Americans.”

    ROFL – since you’re the one claiming that ancient land claims should be in force today, isn’t it you who should be turning over your double-wide?

  57. menopaws says:

    CT8—You seem to wrap yourself in ignorance like our flag….But, the people who fought and died defending that flag weren’t stupid….Real patriots know that war is the LAST resort, not the first….Armchair patriots of your type are always ready for some brave young person to die fighting, while they sit on a sofa and criticize those who must make the call………
    One last thing–my husband was a warrior and he is NOT a conservative. My son-in-law is Native American and our history shows how well we treated those who were here FIRST……..So, your arguments about Israel is more of the same kind of blowhard excuses used by Rumsfeld and Cheney to justify Iraq under the LIE of WMD ……..And, history has proven them WRONG…..How many more people have to die in unnecessary wars? That isn’t about anything resembling patriotism…….And, next time bring some real facts to the table and quit criticizing those who do………The best of America serves in our military and they have been stretched to the limit……..There is NO reason to bomb Iran………..I won’t take Nethanyahu’s word on it and wisely, neither will Obama……..There is a bridge for sale in Brooklyn–wanna buy it?????

  58. A history of the Palestinians
    http://ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html

    “Palestine became a predominately Arab and Islamic country by the end of the seventh century. Almost immediately thereafter its boundaries and its characteristics — including its name in Arabic, Filastin — became known to the entire Islamic world, as much for its fertility and beauty as for its religious significance…In 1516, Palestine became a province of the Ottoman Empire, but this made it no less fertile, no less Arab or Islamic…Sixty percent of the population was in agriculture; the balance was divided between townspeople and a relatively small nomadic group. All these people believed themselves to belong in a land called Palestine, despite their feelings that they were also members of a large Arab nation…Despite the steady arrival in Palestine of Jewish colonists after 1882, it is important to realize that not until the few weeks immediately preceding the establishment of Israel in the spring of 1948 was there ever anything other than a huge Arab majority. For example, the Jewish population in 1931 was 174,606 against a total of 1,033,314.” Edward Said, “The Question of Palestine.”

    It should be noted that the founder of this excellent site is Jewish.

  59. Ok, noted.

    Waiting for you to give your house to a Native American.

    Let’s be adults here. They are all there now. The Israelis have been on the defense since day one.

    Meno, what a worthless rant. When you hand your keys off to a Native American and move back to majority o your gene pool, you can rant.

  60. “Waiting for you to give your house to a Native American.

    Based on your logic, you should be handing your single-wide over. After all, they were here first, just like those poor outgunned Israelis.

  61. Frankenchrist says:

    “CT8—You seem to wrap yourself in ignorance like our flag….”

    Priceless and oh so apt.

  62. I see the analogy hit a nerve. Good. You all look ridulous. Practice what you preach

  63. LeePHill says:

    “We attacked Saddam, not the Iraqi people”

    The most stupid statement I have ever read on a TNT forum.

  64. Hill, go back and read one of your comments under any of your monikers.

    Nice deflection and weak personal attack. I see Jr needed help.

    Even you should be embarrassed by the behavior of your ilk.

  65. CT8 – if you get a reaction that doesn’t mean you “have hit a nerve” Absurd behavior does tend to provoke a reaction.

    “We attacked Saddam, not the Iraqi people” is a very bizarre, fantasy-based statement.

  66. MyBandito says:

    I suspect that his comments get on the nerves of anybody who bothers to read them.

  67. Hard not to have war when one side’s religion orders them to wipe out the other side.

  68. averageJose says:

    No kidding xring… those muslim jihadists are ruthless.

  69. LeePHill says:

    “CT8 says:
    Aug. 26, 2012 at 8:39 pm Hill, go back and read one of your comments under any of your monikers.
    Nice deflection and weak personal attack. I see Jr needed help.
    Even you should be embarrassed by the behavior of your ilk.”

    Paranoia.

    I have only one moniker. Maybe you need self reflection “8”.

    “Jr”? Still stuck on ehill, who is older than me, being my son????

    I’m embarrassed by your behavior. A totally ignorant statement about a bombing raid being an attack on one person and a display of paranoid behavior is embarrassing to say the least.

  70. Bb, what was our initial mission? Sure it changed with the situation. You are so desperate to paint Bush (and America) in a negative light that you are blatantly rewriting history.

    You were not there. You did not witness the changes. You watched selective media from your couch or classroom and bought into a biased opinion (not based on fact).

  71. And I am still waiting for you and Meno to tell me why you have not returned your home to the Native Americans.

    Maybe you would only respect the Native Americans if they fired thousands of rockets at our farms and cities?

  72. menopaws says:

    Excuse me CT8—when you get back on meds or quit hitting the bottle, maybe people will respond to your rants…..In my gene pool, as you put it, we pride ourselves on LEARNING and keeping an open mind. In your gene pool, lots of scratching and figuring out how to walk and chew gum at the same time….Done responding to you–lob your bombs of idiocy at those who have time and energy to waste…..War is the place of last resort–not first……Are you willing to risk your life???? Nah, I didn’t think so………Easy to applaud those kinds of plans when you have no stake in it…those of us with military family look a lot harder……………
    One last thing—so far on this blog you have made ugly statements about our President, Palestinians, and Native Americans…….I think you have finally identified yourself as a RACIST……..Thanks for giving all of us the opportunity to show your TRUE colors……..Your brankd of patriotism involves white sheets and torches…..

  73. you are blatantly rewriting history.

    How?

  74. And please, explain how we can invade a country, kill thousands of their people and not be attacking the country?

  75. We attacked the govt of Saddam then fought an insurgency battling the new govt. To say we were fighting the ‘people of Iraq’ is quite amateur.

    Meno, I have multiple years spent downrange in defense of our nation since 9-11. Yes, I know more about war than you. Fact.

    Now, instead of pulling out the race card (when the only racism here is from the anti-Israel crowd), answer a question. Be an adult.

    I hit the bottle to tolerate people like yourself. Self proclaimed genus yet will not answer a simple question. Rather than just admitting a personal bias, calls names and cries like a kid on the playground.

  76. We invaded Iraq – not “the government” or “Saddam” – Denial ain’t a river in Egypt.

  77. the “race card”? What are you talking about?

  78. Never mind – I see that you were addressing a different poster. Please disregard my question of 3:38…….not that I disagree with her assessment.

  79. Some set of digital muscles. Where I come an accusation like that gets addressed with a fist.

    I have not stated, implied, alluded to anything racist. You and your ilk have the race problem; tell me why you really dislike the Jewish people? Where is your sack now?

    Glad to see that you too skip crazy’s comments.

  80. “you and your ilk”

    ROTFL

    What is it with conkeyboard warriors and “ilk”?

  81. I’ll answer that when you answer my questions from earlier, tough guy. Address your obvious bigotry and hypocritical stance, then we can talk vocab.

    You are obviously embarrassed. Man up. Stick by your words or be a bigger man and admit you crossed a line.

  82. menopaws says:

    For a troll like you to tell anyone to man up is just ludicrious………Your manhood is that of some playground bully who whines when he gets nailed by ANYONE smarter……..You are a racist and a stupid little propaganda troll with nothing to offer beyond Fox News and Rush Limbaugh…..Quit bullying people who are smarter and try to actually discuss ideas……..You are offensive and rude and even people who agree with you are tired of pretending that your behavior is okay…It is not….Try to learn some manners…..The only person who has crossed any lines is you…

  83. Meno, so far you have cried and deflected. Make a small attempt to be civil. Tell me why you have not returned your home to the Native Americans.

    Since you will not deed your house back to the Indians, tell me how you are different from the Israelis. I am not saying the land is clearly Arab anyway, just trying to move along.

    By the way, your buddy Bb never explained how political control was different from who actually lived there.

    I do ask you to quote a racist statement I made. Thanks.

  84. “tell me why you really dislike the Jewish people”

    I don’t dislike the Jewish people. You’re lying. Again.

  85. tell me why you really dislike the Jewish people?

    Again….a pro-zionist cries antisemite whenever the Israeli policies are criticized.

    THE Israel Defence Force’s arbitrary use of violence against Palestinian children, including forcing them to act as human shields in military operations, has been exposed by veteran soldiers in detailed statements chronicling dozens of brutal incidents.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/israeli-soldiers-expose-plight-of-palestinian-children-20120826-24ueo.html#ixzz24qUczDJH

  86. Please note: the “veteran soldiers” that are exposing the use of Palestinian children as human shields are veterans of the IDF.

    You aren’t completely to blame for your ignorance about what is going on:
    This eye opening long documentary film elaborates on the discovery of American media lies by comparing how news are delivered to the US population and to other countries around the world. The film provides a striking comparison of U.S. and international media coverage of the crisis in the ME zeroing in on how structural distortions in U.S. coverage have reinforced false perceptions of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict for example. This pivotal documentary exposes how the foreign policy interests of American political elites–oil, and a need to have a secure military base in the region, among others–work in combination with Israeli public relations strategies to exercise a powerful influence over how news from the region is reported.

    http://undergrounddocumentaries.com/?p=1831

  87. Did you read your link? So they shot a kid attempting to throw a Molotov cocktail.

    The incident with the gun is obviously wrong, and if addressed through command channels probably would have led to significant punishment. Now, te kid was throwing a rock, and not only is that dangerous to the soldiers the kid is lucky they did not think it was something more hostile.

    Have you ever dealt with a situation like that? I have.

    The next issue was a kid getting arrested for mistaken identity. That happens here. He was given due process and released. Annoying, sure. Tragic? No.

    One piece of propaganda was enough.

    Now, where was a racist? And do you agree that your native citizen argument falls flat if you reside on land that once belonged to Indians?

  88. I guess you missed the bit about using children as human shields….funny how ideology blinds one to certain things.

    “Preparing For A Post Israel Middle East”, an 82-page analysis that concludes that the American national interest in fundamentally at odds with that of Zionist Israel. The authors conclude that Israel is currently the greatest threat to US national interests because its nature and actions prevent normal US relations with Arab and Muslim countries and, to a growing degree, the wider international community.

    The study was commissioned by the US Intelligence Community comprising 16 American intelligence agencies with an annual budget in excess of $ 70 billion. The IC includes the Departments of the Navy, Army, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, Defense Intelligence Agency, Departments of Energy, Homeland Security, State, Treasure, Drug Enforcement Agency, Federal Bureau of Investigation, National Security Agency, National Geospatial Intelligence Agency, National Reconnaissance Agency and the Central Intelligence Agency commissioned the study.

    http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2012/08/28/us-preparing-for-a-post-israel-middle-east/

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