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ELECTION: How far are you willing to follow Paul Ryan?

Letter by Randal L. Johnson, Graham on Aug. 17, 2012 at 3:03 pm with 186 Comments »
August 17, 2012 3:03 pm

If you feel that you have the moral authority to tell a 90-year-old Alzheimer’s patient,“Mr. Reynolds, I’m taking away your Medicare benefits, but here’s a voucher so you can go buy yourself some insurance. Oh, and by the way, if you have any pre-existing medical conditions, the insurance companies may be unable to insure you. Mr. Reynolds? Are you understanding any of this?”

And if you feel that you have the moral authority to tell a young rape victim, “I know it’s tough, Mary, but you’ve been raped so now you have to make a decision. You can take the morning after pill, if you can find one, or get yourself an abortion and be sent to prison for 20 years to life, or you can spend the next 20 to life raising the child of your rapist. Choose, Mary.”

If you feel that you have the moral authority to cause this kind of suffering to occur a million times over in America, then vote Romney-Ryan 2012, because Paul Ryan has clearly expressed his desire to make this happen in your name, and Mitt Romney has not expressed the slightest inclination stand in his way.

Leave a comment Comments → 186
  1. LeePHill says:

    Randal – get ready for the denials

  2. thisyoungvet says:

    I agree with you! Really it would be President Ryan and VP Romney. Don’t get me wrong I believe that they both are incredibly dangerous to the basic and fundamental aspects of this country’s foundation, meaning personal freedom, freedom of religion, and an oppressed class system where there are but a very few rich on top and many oppressed underneath. Tax cuts for the wealthy while cutting medicare and other social programs proves that their agenda is to further perpetuate that class divide. They seem to either have forgotten or not care about the history of this country and the reason’s it was founded in the first place. Romney can not make up his mind on anything, he is worse than a fish out of water flopping around. Romney is a puppet who is being controlled by Ryan and the rest of the extreme GOP.

  3. menopaws says:

    Absolutely correct…….This “voucher” system is a real con…….Those who can afford to buy other insurance will. those who can’t will stick with traditional Medicare, which Dr.’s will quit accepting because they can make more with the other plans….. The poorest will get the plan that NO Dr. will take………Wow–talk about death panels!!! the Republicans have found a politically correct way to create them. And, women will be prosecuted like armed robbers and violent criminals for making private health choices……..So, I guess BIG BROTHER does indeed live and tell people how and when they get care……..Where is that dummy Sarah Palin to call this one out???? She can smell those death panels, can’t she????

  4. SwordofPerseus says:

    Ryan deserves a tar and feathering along with his running mate. {ride on a rail out of town.}

  5. SwordofPerseus says:

    Thisyoungvet – I like the cut of your jib. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders, glad you are commenting. Keep up the good work.

  6. Where oh where are the wingnuts riding to Ryan’s defense? Wait, there is no defense, because it is all true.
    Ryan is the presumed leader of the Tea party now and he is their poster boy. It is what they want for our nation. Get ready for the chains as someone said not too long ago.

  7. normajean says:

    I would also like to know where that brainless Sarah Palin is? An embarrassment to the GOP? How could anyone defend Paul Ryan’s position. The US has become a country caring more about money than people who are the fabric of this great nation. Shame, shame, shame on any country who dictates what a woman can or can not do concerning her body. Most of the people making & proposing these measures are men not women. I would like to see how far a woman would get proposing that a special rod be inserted to inspect men’s procreation capabilities just for the hell of it. Sounds ridiculous because it is.

  8. MrCarleone says:

    “Randal L. Johnson” & “thisyoungvet” :

    Thank You !

  9. took14theteam says:

    Is 90 greater than 55?

    I think so.

    That means nothing changes for the “90” year old letter writer.

    Nice to see the Rats chime in real quick for the defense.

    As has been pointed out numerous times; what is the solution from the Rats to fix the entitlement problem other than getting about 400 billion TOTAL from the evil rich? And when that supply is gone, in a year, then what?

    I thought so. No plan.

  10. truthbusterguy says:

    Publico, why should we comment? We can’t change the mind of a liberal. We also can’t polish a turd.

    Both are the same.

  11. If Ryan’s Medicare overhaul plan is so great for the middle class and poor, why is he exempting those over 55 from all of the wonderful benefits? They should have those voucher opportunities now, should they not? Why does Ryan hate old people?

  12. sumyungboi says:

    Randal, what do they feed you over in Graham, stupid pills?

    Of course, Randal’s ignorance is the end result of his stupidity in obtaining his “information” from left wing nut sources, all with a progressive agenda.

  13. Here we go again with the clowns throwing liberal v reactionary barbs at each other. Boring!

    Anyway, has anyone crunched the numbers? I haven’t seen any numbers crunched for the cost of the vouchers and the anticipated cost of senior care. Now keep in mind part of the deal is to raise the medicare eligibility age to 67.

    I whipped out my federal retiree Blue Cross plan which has co-pays and deductibles, no dental care, no eye care, no lifetime limits, no exclusions for pre-exisitng conditions, etc. A reasonable plan. I grabbed the 2011 plan costs (2012 is buried in the Internet) which is $578 per month. I do not recall any increase for 2012. That’s the government share plus employee share. That’s for a single person without regards to age. That means no single youngsters who do not use costly procedures and have recurrent illnesses subsidizing the older workers and retirees. Now exclude those young whippersnappers. What will the cost of care be? What will the vouchers be?

    Yeah, that’s for grandpa! What about grandma? Now $1,200 per month.

    Show me the numbers!

    Oh, I forgot! Who is going to pay for all those vouchers?

    Show me the numbers!

  14. slasmith says:

    This letter wreaks of fear.

  15. menopaws says:

    Yes, it does….the government we trusted to keep it’s promises is hedging it’s bets…..and creating those death panels for the poorest of the poor……….There is the smell of fear and the absolute knowledge of betrayal……….Vote Republican and watch………Piece by piece, they are dismantling the safety net. Third world oligarchy comes to mind……..Can you do peasant? Sumy—your voice is still not answering any questions…….Just throwing out the usual……..Explain to us how the voucher program will NOT cut the poor out of the health care system….Put up–shut up……Done treating you and yours as equals……..If you can’t raise the bar on the discussion with knowledge or real ideas, go away…….You are the one on stupid pills—shut your rude mouth and respect those who have something more important to say than your usual ugly rants……this blog needs to turn on the rude and send them back under their rocks……..Quit making a fool of yourself…..Contribute something more than mean…….The future belongs to those with ideas—not those whose idea of political is being a rabid dog………This writer had something important to say and it is worth more than ANY of your rants…….Loser!.

  16. took14theteam says:

    Bzzzzzzzzzzzzz

  17. truthbusterguy says:

    OK, I can resist making the argument.

    The Democrats want to scare the elderly to death about Paul Ryan’s Medicare proposals even though they won’t affect anyone over 54, and here’s what they’re not telling anyone. Their own legislative mishaps include billions in cuts that start eating away at Medicare right around the corner and won’t address the debt threat because of the coming costs of Obamacare.

    Keep going forward at the obama rate of a trillion-dollar deficit here and another trillion-dollar deficit there, and pretty soon we are over the cliff. If anything should induce fear and trembling, it’s that prospect, not Ryan’s perfectly reasonable Medicare proposals that truly do aim to reduce spending for the reason that there is no other choice if we want to save the program and the country.

  18. truthy, you conflate deficit spending in the time of recession with deficit spending any other time. That is a sure sign of not knowing about which you speak.

  19. aislander says:

    WHY can’t we deal with reality?

    Without prosperity (money, profit, business) we can’t help ANYONE!

    If you are “covering” pre-existing conditions, you are not dealing with insurance, you are providing charity.

    It doesn’t matter how worthy or needy or deserving someone or something is: if the resources aren’t there, they aren’t there. Agenda item number one is accumulating the resources. Then we can talk about how to distribute them.

    But we accumulate more resources if we allow those who earn them to keep them…

  20. bobcat1a says:

    Sorry, she can’t have the morning after pill because that would be illegal, as would most forms of birth control except condoms, Ryan introduced a bill to declare a fertilized egg a human being with full rights. Oh, and you couples having difficulty conceiving, no more in vitro fertilization; Ryan’s bill bans that too.

  21. lylelaws says:

    menopaws,

    Your 6:01 rant should have been titled. “My online autobiography.”

  22. blakeshouse says:

    Ignorance is bliss…. just ask any of the socialist liberal around… Better to keep your mouth shut and be perceived a fool than it is to open it and remove all doubt

  23. Careful gents, dig too deep, ask too many questions, demand rational arguments, and you will get banned.

  24. menopaws says:

    lylelaws–At least I try to engage in a discussion without “stupid pills”……the fact that some of us are fed up with the name calling instead of IDEAS or solutions is just my way of dragging this blog back to a place where those things matter more than ugly names and rudeness…..Try manners some time–it actually impresses people…..Makes them think you have dignity and smarts…..whole new world……

  25. I cannot believe that this LTE was even allowed to be published on The News Tribune website. The old Newspaper I grew up with is gone. You have all become now just a rag to line a birdcage.

  26. even though they won’t affect anyone over 54

    Well golly gee! That is just swell! It won’t affect me but it will affect my wife. I guess it is OK if she can’t pay for her insurance because – hey – it doesn’t affect me!

  27. Fear, ignorance, and obfuscation… the triad that makes progressive politics work!

    Terry

  28. Trueblue22 says:

    Nice spin job Randal! Thanks for the usual bots and their usual drivel. Nothing like some laughing entertainment to go with my morning coffee!

  29. Where oh where are the wingnuts riding to Ryan’s defense?

    They’re all lined up neatly above the “Pub”, Pub – left wingnuts on display. (righty-tighty, lefty-loosey). Did Randy email you all just before he posted his “loosey” whopper?

    Wait, there is no defense, because it is all true.

    There’s no “excuse” for such conscious ignorance. Not a single sentence – not one paragraph of Mr. Johnson’s left wingnut, propaganda tripe is true, and I have to believe you know it.

    You should be ashamed.

    As for the tools who posted ahead of yours…

    Sorry lefties, you’re not going to get away with “Palining” Ryan, no mater how hard you and the liberal press try. That card’s been played. And with Albatross Joe Biden hanging around your collective #2 pencil necks, attempts such as this LTE just come off even more laughingly weak and lame.

  30. philichi says:

    ok I realize the Medicare and social security are going bankrupt if left the way the are. Obama knows this. Romney knows this, and you all know this.

    What would be better, a candidate, Paul Ryan, to ignore the issue just to get elected? or, Coming to terms with the issue and trying to fix it even though it is difficult?

    Does anyone have the liberal answer?

    Or, are you content to believe that the programs are safe without change?

  31. LeePHill says:

    Ok, I realize that Philich is going broke if he doesn’t create more revenue for himself, but he says additional revenue isn’t the answer.

  32. I see no one can explain why Romney/Ryan are not willing to impose Ryan’s grand Medicare reform idea on existing retirees. That is a question that needs to be answered.

    If it’s as terrific as he states, why in the world is he withholding these wonderful benefits from current retirees? Why?

  33. averageJose says:

    Kooky that on one hand people are ok with all those companies and unions getting an exemption for Obamacare and on the other whine about Ryan’s plan exempting people over 54.

  34. alindasue says:

    Based on both the compromises in the Affordable Care Act (taking the “public option” off the table) and Paul Ryan’s Medicare reform plan, I’d say that there is ample evidence that the insurance industry yields a great deal of power. Since both plans work through the insurance companies, they seem to be the big winners in all of this – the only ones guaranteed continued revenue and profits no matter which way it goes.

    The doctors certainly aren’t making out in this deal. Even under Paul Ryan’s plan, the doctors and medical facilities can charge all they want, but they’ll only receive what the insurance companies agree to pay them. It wouldn’t be any better for them than it is under the current Medicare.

    Under Paul Ryan’s Medicare plan, seniors will be given vouchers to help pay for medical insurance – but if they are successful in repealing “Obamacare”, will those many seniors with “preexisting conditions” be able to find companies that will not only “insure” them but also pay to treat those conditions? Even if it is not repealed, are they going to be able to find insurance priced at a rate that the vouchers would even come close to covering? If they can’t, then what? Do they go without medical coverage at a time when it is needed most in their lives?

    I see comments about “stupid pills” and “Fear, ignorance, and obfuscation” and “spin job”. What I’m not seeing is the answers to my questions or anyone giving a good explanation about how Paul Ryan’s Medicare plan would benefit anyone but the insurance companies and their stock holders? Exactly how would it benefit seniors, taxpayers – would the vouchers really be any less expensive? – or the American public?

  35. McCain’s ploy to fire up the base with his VP pick backfired because Palin refused to play by his rules, one wonders if Candidate Etch-a-Sketch will have more luck with controlling his red meat for the Teapotters…
    http://news.yahoo.com/romney-wants-risky-pick-play-safe-075300266.html

  36. Kooky that a poster characterizes criticism of Ryan’s plan (Which Romney has said is virtually identical to his) is equivalent to supporting every aspect of “Obamacare”.

  37. Lynnwoodfats says:

    Just wondering…
    If ADA becomes sucessful and everybody likes it, will they still call itr Obamacare?

  38. sumyungboi says:

    bb: “.. one wonders if Candidate Etch-a-Sketch”

    Beerboy’s in panic mode now, too, as evidenced by his petty and childish parroting of this hippie catch phrase. You guys sure do know how to diminish yourselves.

  39. menopaws says:

    Sumy–Every time you post, you DIMINISH yourself……….Glass houses and stones comes to mind…Who in the hell do you think you are judging others so harshly????? Haven’t heard a word of wisdom or knowledge out of you……JUst more mean spirited name calling…….No real ideas, huh?

  40. sumyungboi says:

    It’s comical to watch the meltdown of the leftists. You guys were so close, after a hundred years, the finish line was in sight, but then…

    You woke everyone up just a tad too quick, no? :)

    Sorry man, it might have happened in your lifetime, now it just ain’t happening.

  41. LeePHill says:

    @10:55 – it’s impressive when people take responsibility for their actions

  42. SwordofPerseus says:

    Who’s melting down Sumdumbboy? I would say that this is the death throws for your irrelevant useless decaying party, the party of fat old white people…Where will the GOP be in four more years, they can’t even front a decent candidate now. LOL!

  43. lylelaws says:

    alindasue,

    If you owned a health insurance company, would you extend coverage to people with disabling or terminal health problems? If you would, the only way you could do so would be to drastically raise the rates on your existing customers who would obviously drop their coverage until such time as they had serious health problems.

  44. BlaineCGarver says:

    From where I sit, both D’s and R’s are marginalize the social aspects of health care. It’s time to fire Big Health Insurance, and get the politician’s hands out of the kitty. Whoever wins the White House, it’s going to be Congress that dictates the future of healthcare. Healthcare is a basic right, and I’m darn sick of Big Insurance and politicians getting rich off the backs of the healthy trying to stay that way, the sick, and the dying. If you morons could just stop the politics, maybe we could get somewhere on the road to leading the world in health once again.

  45. LeePHill says:

    “If you owned a health insurance company, would you extend coverage to people with disabling or terminal health problems?”

    Maybe this is the REAL problem – PROFITEERING health care. What kind of a society profits on the ills of its members?

    Lyle’s above quoted question makes you wonder who the real DEATH PANELS are, doesn’t it? “We’ll treat you as long as you are not terminal or disabled”.

    The Legendary Jesus would be proud, wouldn’t he?

  46. Lylelaws: And that is exactly why a voucher program for health insurance is doomed to failure. Insurance rates for retirees with pre-existing conditions would be horrendous – and out of reach for the vast majority of retirees.

    The bottom line is this: Republicans want to destroy both Social Security and Medicare. They are philosophically opposed to both programs. To claim they are “saving” both programs is ludicrous. They cannot destroy either program head-on, so they attempt to do so by chipping away at them – vouchers for Medicare and “private investment accounts” for Social Security.

    Notice that these ideas are almost always put forth by individuals who themselves were born into wealth and privilege, and will never have to rely on either program.

  47. LeePHill says:

    Lyle – since you are good on questions, I have one for you.

    How would you like to hear:

    “Sorry, Lyle, you are terminal, but to keep you comfortable until your inevitable death…..well…it’s just too expensive. Just grit your teeth and die in time.”

    I’ll look forward to your answer.

  48. sumyungboi says:

    SoP: “Who’s melting down Sumdumbboy?”

    Ummm, well, you and your ilk. Cool how you felt compelled to reply with racist rants, validating my contention. :)

  49. LeePHill says:

    Oh…and Lyle…

    This statement – “If you would, the only way you could do so would be to drastically raise the rates on your existing customers who would obviously drop their coverage until such time as they had serious health problems.” – demonstrates how little you comprehend insurance pools.

  50. hippie catch phrase

    Are you saying that Mitt’s campaign staff are hippies? Cuz that’s where the etch-a-sketch candidacy was first labeled.

  51. sumyungboi says:

    bb: “Cuz that’s where the etch-a-sketch candidacy was first labeled”

    And at the dawn of The Tea Party some people were wearing tea bags dangling from their hats. Then a bunch of leftist media personalities thought it was funny to associate the tea party with an odd homosexual act, (God, that was classy, no?) and the little immature, couthless dirtbags have been having fun with it ever since. Your crowd man, you must be so proud.

  52. wrong again….The term teabagger was initially used to refer to Tea Partiers after conservatives used tea bag as a verb on protest signs and websites.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement#Use_of_term_.22teabagger.22

  53. LeePHill says:

    I recall the TEA Party telling its membership to “tea bag” their congressman – send a tea bag by mail

    http://digitaljournal.com/article/269435

  54. sumyungboi says:

    bb: “The term teabagger was initially used to refer to Tea Partiers after conservatives used tea bag as a verb on protest signs and websites”

    And that’s different, how?

    Bottom line, it took a bunch of leftists to explain to the world what “teabag” means in their world. From experience, I guess, why else the fascination and the rush to explain it? It’s hilarious, you people can’t even see the irony in having been privy to an abnormal homosexual act. :)

  55. Using tea bag as a verb is “teabagging”.

    You really don’t think much before posting do you?

    And….you really think that only homosexuals participate in those sexual practices? You really live a sheltered life.

    And – since you were the one that brought this up, and continue to expand upon it, in the thread – it seems that you are the one who holds the “fascination”.

  56. sumyungboi says:

    It just keeps getting better and better. Do you honestly think that the tea party members were trying to convey an abnormal homosexual act when using “teabag” as a “verb”? I guess that’s the world you live in, though, your little paradigm, where mens genitals and homosexual acts are the first thing that popped into your mind.

    bb: “And….you really think that only homosexuals participate in those sexual practices? You really live a sheltered life”

    You and your friends really dig that, huh? Do you like, sit around playing pinochle or something, and then someone just decides to drop a teabag on one of you? Go ahead and elaborate on the widespread practice of teabagging. I thought it sounded pretty GD perverted, I mean, what kind of windowless van driving weirdo could possibly get off, but go ahead and ‘splain, I’m all ears.

  57. dtacoma asks:
    I see no one can explain why Romney/Ryan are not willing to impose Ryan’s grand Medicare reform idea on existing retirees. That is a question that needs to be answered.

    Pretty simple, dt, a combination of political expediency and common sense. Seniors who are currently on Medicare are, understandably, much less likely to support a major change to the program as it currently affects them, thus a political accommodation reduces the risk of pissing-off a voting block. And it makes perfect sense that those who are more than ten years away from receiving benefits would have time to decide which plan make the most sense to them.

    And that is exactly why a voucher program for health insurance is doomed to failure. Insurance rates for retirees with pre-existing conditions would be horrendous – and out of reach for the vast majority of retirees.

    Uhh, I don’t think you’re quite understanding Ryan’s plan.

    For future retirees – or those under 55 – the Ryan plan would allow them to either remain on Medicare, or pay them to buy a government-approved plan whose costs are determined through a competitive bidding system. Those seniors who want more coverage under a more expensive plan would pay more and those who want a lesser plan could pocket the savings. The poorest or sickest seniors would have a special program.

    And now, for the “blah, blah, blah” platitude segment:

    The bottom line is this: Republicans want to destroy both Social Security and Medicare.

    Yeah, right.

    Notice that these ideas are almost always put forth by individuals who themselves were born into wealth and privilege, and will never have to rely on either program.

    Ryan was not “born into wealth”, and his mother is currently drawing social security, and is (in Ryan’s words) “a Medicare senior”.

  58. alindasue says:

    aislander and sumyungboi, this thread is the first time I’ve heard of “teabagging” having any kind of sexual connotation. I can’t see how that would be arrived at… never mind, I don’t even want to know.

    aislander said, “So, we have dog equals child…”

    In terms of being a living beings that we need to care for, there are parallels between owning pets and raising children. Personally, I think the whole Romney’s-dog-on-the-roof/Obama-ate-dog nonsense is silly, but placing value on the lives of animals does nothing to diminish the value of humans or civilized behavior.

    Back on topic…
    Clamat0 said, “… the Ryan plan would allow them to either remain on Medicare, or pay them to buy a government-approved plan whose costs are determined through a competitive bidding system.”

    What I’m not understanding here is if those with expensive preexisting conditions would choose to stay on Medicare (what you seem to be implying here) and those who are healthier (and thereby cheaper to provide coverage for) received vouchers, how would that save us taxpayers money? The only way I can see that vouchers would save taxpayers money is if everyone received them… which takes me back to the problem of elderly people with preexisting conditions being able to find affordable health care coverage to buy with those vouchers.

  59. sumyungboi says:

    alindasue, “teabagging” is a term used to describe a perverted sexual act usually associated with male homosexuality. Those on the left who’re opposed to tea party people seemed to be well acquainted with the act, and many television pundits and even the well known CNN anchor and homosexual Andersen Cooper had quite a fun time mocking the tea party people because of this.

  60. alindasue says:

    sumyungboi,

    I figured that much out from the context of what you and aislander were saying, although I fail to see what such a “homosexual act” has to do with this thread. The references to “teabagger” used here by beerBoy and others in this thread is clearly in reference to Paul Ryan’s heavy support for and by the Tea Party.

  61. LeePHill says:

    “Bottom line, it took a bunch of leftists to explain to the world what “teabag” means in their world.”

    “Their world”??? Now the Cons think they have their own world, exclusive from homosexuals?

    Someone call Ken Mehlman quick….Have him call Dick Cheney’s daughter….

  62. LeePHill says:

    “October 17, 2010 at 1:48 pm”?????????????

    Oh my gaaaaaaaawwd!!!

    Someone is actually cataloging comments that are almost 2 years old?

    Now, as to Paul Ryan being “born of wealth”…..

    His father was an attorney, which could mean that he was wealthy, but not necessarily so. If his mother is collecting social security benefits, it’s the same death benefits she’s collected for 30 years….but that’s not possible, since she remarried. There is no history of her having a career. Since she tossed herself into the campaign today, I’m sure we’ll learn more about her.

  63. The worst thing about Ryan’s plan is tht it would turn Medicare into a defined payment plan rather than the current defined benefit plan.

    That is certainly destroying Medicare as we know it.

    As Clamat0 says: “Those seniors who want more coverage under a more expensive plan would pay more”

    The plans would soon provide fewer and fewer benefits for higher and higher costs. It saves the insurance conmpanies and their extremely high overhead and executive wages, inefficient and wasteful to the extreme compared with current medicare.

  64. Trueblue22 says:

    “That is certainly destroying Medicare as we know it.”

    Wrong. The destruction of medicare “as we know it” was done at the hands of Barack, Inc., courtesy of OweBamaCare.

  65. sumyungboi says:

    lee: ““Their world”??? Now the Cons think they have their own world, exclusive from homosexuals?”

    So you’re all homosexuals, then? But wait, beerboy was trying to convince us that teabagging is quite mainstream and not exclusive to homosexuals, but here you are claiming to be a homosexual and complaining of conservative prejudice against your kind, with homosexual teabagging being your central argument against those whom you assume to be normal because of their political philosophy. You and beerboy need to get together and get all the eyes dotted and the tee’s crossed.

  66. aislander says:

    We’re all animals now…

  67. DenisSchletzbaum says:

    @sumyungboi…what…are you 14 or something? Stick to the point, will ya? Geez!

  68. aislander says:

    alindasue writes: “… but placing value on the lives of animals does nothing to diminish the value of humans or civilized behavior.”

    But considering them to be of equal value does…

  69. So something said or acted upon two years ago is not relevant? Of course it is.

    If you are leaning to the left or a self describe democrat- how can you demonize someone trying to come up with a rational solution while your side has none? Obamacare is an expensive flop. Fact. There are honorable intentions, like pre existing and expanded coverage, but they ignore the basic problems of cost and an aging population. Fact.

    Those that earn a wage and produce are punished by today’s tax code and entitlement society. Fact. Fix it.

  70. Saber16 – ‘a rag to line a bird cage’
    Yet you continue to read the ‘rag to line a bird cage.’

    Whereas this letter has not been published in the paper TNT, does that mean you line your birdcage with the internet or do you just use your PC?

    AJo – more kooky is the tidy-righties ingoring the
    fact that Ryan’s budget makes the same $700 Billion cuts to MediCare to fund more tax breaks for the rich.

    Since the tidy-righties have no problem with destroying MediCare for those under 55, logic would dictate that you are all over 55 and have no friends or relatives who are less than 55.

    Sumy – the etcha-sketch term was first used by a high level member of the Romney Campagin Staff to describe how Romney would flip-flop on the issues after he became the Republican Nominee.

    Aislander – you were right – it was stretching – and the rest of you post is false.

    CT8 – when dealing with Romney/Ryan what they said two days is usually not relavant.

    What the Dems have is a plan to continue Medicare, What your side has is a plan to destroy Medicare.

  71. alindasue – just to be clear here – I used the term “Teapotter”, it was sumyungboi who has continually brought up references to the term “teabagger”. I have responded only to correct and clarify his mistaken statements.

    sumyungboi – now you are making assertions about what you think I may or may not do with my wife in the privacy of my own bedroom……

    aJ – I don’t think you really understand what “irony” is. There is no irony in your attempt to connect a sentence written by aislander with a joke I made about the Governor of Idaho’s funny name TWO YEARS AGO.

    But then….what the heck was this thread about? Oh right, VP candidate Paul Ryan, the guy who had to amend his House ethics disclosure, according to USA Today, because he conveniently forgot a $1 million to $5 million trust fund. Now we learn that Ryan, who waxes eloquently against the Obama stimulus and green business, also conveniently forgot that he sought Obama stimulus money for green business he supported, which he first forgot when asked on television, and then remembered when he got caught.
    http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/brent-budowsky/44992/republicans-panicked-that-obama-might-run-with-hillary-clinton

  72. averageJose says:

    It gives insight into your mindset and made a perfect illustration of aislander’s point. ;)

  73. but you called it “irony”.

  74. Actually, since Butch Otter’s name is Butch Otter, a more perfect example of aislander’s point was when I wrote that it would be insulting to the animal to call you a silly ass.

  75. LeePHill says:

    “sumyungboi says:
    Aug. 18, 2012 at 9:26 pm lee: ““Their world”??? Now the Cons think they have their own world, exclusive from homosexuals?”
    So you’re all homosexuals, then? But wait, beerboy was trying to convince us that teabagging is quite mainstream and not exclusive to homosexuals, but here you are claiming to be a homosexual and complaining of conservative prejudice against your kind, with homosexual teabagging being your central argument against those whom you assume to be normal because of their political philosophy. You and beerboy need to get together and get all the eyes dotted and the tee’s crossed.”

    A perfect example of why drinking and commenting don’t mix.

  76. LeePHill says:

    “Trueblue22 says:
    Aug. 18, 2012 at 9:24 pm “That is certainly destroying Medicare as we know it.”
    Wrong. The destruction of medicare “as we know it” was done at the hands of Barack, Inc., courtesy of OweBamaCare.”

    A perfect example of someone who posts, not having a clue to the truth of the matter. “ObamaCare”, as you have to call it because you don’t know the real name of the legislation, has already saved Medicare funding money. That is what the $716 billion is REALLY about, that Romney continues to lie about.

  77. LeePHill says:

    “Those that earn a wage and produce are punished by today’s tax code and entitlement society. Fact.”

    NO FACT.

    Paying taxes is part of our Constitution and a part of financing our country. Only those who are truly unpatriotic would see taxation as a punishment.

  78. aallindasue:

    which takes me back to the problem of elderly people with preexisting conditions being able to find affordable health care coverage to buy with those vouchers.

    I’m just wondering why this would bother you so much in the case of Medicare, but not 0bamacare.

  79. ClamatO: You obviously aren’t aware that Mr. Ryan’s grandfather built a very successful contracting firm, funded by government contracts by the way, and that the Ryan family is certainly not reliant on Social Security or Medicare.

    The fact that Paul Ryan’s mother currently draws both gives credence to accusations of Republican hypocrisy regarding government run social programs. Just like Paul Ryan begging for Stimulus dollars for his district, the same Stimulus dollars he ranted and raved about as “wasteful government spending that won’t create jobs”.

    Republican interest in modifying Social Security and Medicare, as well as food stamps, has absolutely nothing to do with saving money. It has everything to do with reducing the role of government in American lives. The fact they feel the need to lie and obfuscate about that fact, speaks volumes. They know that 88% of Americans are diametrically opposed to their philosophy.

  80. The plans would soon provide fewer and fewer benefits for higher and higher costs. It saves the insurance conmpanies and their extremely high overhead and executive wages, inefficient and wasteful to the extreme compared with current medicare.

    LOL, okay, I’ll bite; how could ANYTHING be more “inefficient and wasteful to the extreme” than “current Medicare”?

    And, not surprisingly, you completely ignore the part where I stated that for “future retirees – or those under 55 – the Ryan plan would allow them to either remain on Medicare, or pay them to buy a government-approved plan whose costs are determined through a competitive bidding system.“.

    Are you saying the insurance companies would then collude in some kind of tin foil hat conspiracy to screw seniors, while government looks away?

  81. Way back on 08/17/2012 5:43 PM I posed some questions. True to form for this site, nobody has responded.

  82. LeePHill says:

    “Paul Ryan, speaking at The Villages, Florida, August 18, 2012.”

    This is now a source of Paul Ryan’s biography? Let me take a try…

    “LeePHill speaking on his computer”….

    “When I found the cure for a disease, I donated all of the money given to me to the Girl Scouts”

  83. Uhmm, dt… you better go back and re-check the liberal blog from which you got your info – it was Ryan’s great grandfather who started the “successful contracting firm” in 1884, not his grandfather. And take it from someone who knows a bit about being a “successful contracting firm”, not only does being a “successful contracting firm” not come close to assuring a “wealth and privilege” birthright, but the pie slices smaller and smaller over the four generations and approximately 80 years that lapsed between the founding of the company and Ryan’s birth.

    Maybe that’s why Paul Ryan had to use the Social Security survivor’s benefits from his father (that he’d saved until he was 18) to pay for his college at that well-known Ivy-League bastion of the “wealthy and privileged; Miami University (of Ohio).

    If you can’t even get that right…

  84. So… you’re saying he’s lying, Larry? (I suppose I shouldn’t doubt the word of an experience-level “expert” on the subject of lying.)

  85. dankuykendall says:

    If Obamacare is so great, why is all of Congress and the President exempt from it? Who inside of the government does Obamacare cover? Why are so many unions exempt from it? Come on, Get a Grip! Get rid of this Albatross and do something right!

  86. A321196: Romney admits no one has run any numbers on his plan, which he says is different from Ryan’s plan. The CBO did run numbers on Ryan’s plan and found that by 2022, seniors would be paying $6,358.97 more than under the current Medicare, and there would be no guarantee that benefits would be the same, because Ryan changes it from a defined benefit insurance to a defined payment.

    That info is out on a number of sites, but I loooked at the FactCheck site.

    Romney’s camp has said the CBO’s analysis is wrong because they did not take into account the shift from government responsibility to individual responsibility to make sure the charges are correct. They said individuals will be able to keep health care costs down better tha the government has. (I guess that is why Medicare currently pays 30% less on average, than private insurance companies for the same services?)

    Romney says that individual seniors will have more power to make sure bills are correct, only needed services are provided and that hospitals are not adding extra costs and providers are charging correct fees.

    I call b.s. on anyone who says individual consumers have more knowledge and more power to find waste and fraud than regulators and auditors in today’s health industry. As a person who has helped hundreds, maybe thousands of people negotiate health services for major rehabilitation surgeries and other services, I know the extreme frustration most go through to understand, let alone challenge the giant health care industry and insurance providers.

    Both industries seem set on making sure the individual winds up with being required to pay more than their fair share of padded bills.

  87. dankuykendall, the answer is that unions are not exempt from the law. PolitiFact looked at an ad that claimed unins were exempt and found it “Pants on Fire”.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/may/23/crossroads-gps/unions-dont-have-comply-obamacare-says-crossroads-/

    “But looking at the numbers of waivers that have been given to both union and non-union groups, we don’t see any pattern that would support a case for special treatment. The number of waivers are a small sample of all health plans, and many more waivers were given to big companies and corporations. We looked for additional information or evidence on this point and didn’t find it.

    But there are additional problems with the ad. The ad doesn’t mention that the waivers only apply to annual coverage limits, that they’re intended to be in place only until 2014 and that many for-profit companies have received the same waivers. It gives the impression that unions are entirely exempt from the health care law, which they are not.”

  88. LeePHill says:

    “So… you’re saying he’s lying”

    I’m sayin’ that there is nothing on the internet to support the existance of the alleged small business that mom allegedly started.

    Campaign talk is cheap. Let’s see some facts.

    Senior citizens “living on Social Security and Medicare” can’t usually afford “the largest retirement community in the world”

    http://www.thevillages.com/

    check to see how much this place costs and if they are “private pay only”

    Ryan’s mother is not your typical senior citizen.

  89. LeePHill says:

    “Paul Ryan had to use the Social Security survivor’s benefits from his father (that he’d saved until he was 18) to pay for his college”

    How nice.

    Most kids getting survivor benefits are using it for food and clothing.

  90. Most kids do not get nominated as their party’s VP candidate. Most kids do not have a budget pass in the House. Got a point?

  91. menopaws’s 601 rant is typical of a grouchy, over the hill frustrated woman who has seen the best of her years pass by without any real enjoyment. A typical stringy-haired, overweight, self-hating liberal who despises anything that is not neatly packaged and delivered by the government to her doorstep. Get over yourself menopaws, your rage is what keeps us conservatives laughing and enjoying the little jabs at your elitist half-witted remarks.

  92. normajean says:

    Universal health care – no insurance companies to lore over anyone. Never a political issue during a campaign. Everyone is covered, no paperwork. No fear of being rejected because of pre-existing conditions. Profiting off the backs of the sick & dying is never a consideration. People have to be educated about other health care systems that have been successfully adopted by other countries. The powers to be don’t want people to know about a system that eliminates the need for big profit insurance companies who fund them.

  93. aislander says:

    beerBoy: NOBODY except high-school AP English teachers uses the word “irony” according to its strict meaning(s).

  94. LeePHill, 12:11 comment, I believe it was Obama that said we’ll just give them a pain pill. My my, what short memories liberals have. You may be able to fool your fellow liberals but you can’t fool the other side with your lies. “Eye roll” & a giant “jeeeez”!

  95. aislander, I don’t know if it is ironic or just plain sad that a word wonk like you appears to excuse the widespread misuse of the word ironic…

  96. I see that beerboy is up to his usual sport of nit-picking. Try snipe-hunting for a change beerboy, it requires a little more exercise.

  97. frosty – unlike you, both aislander and I share a respect for words and the proper use of them.

    If you can’t comment intelligently when the adults are having a conversation – just go back to the kids’ table.

  98. aislander says:

    While it is not “ironic” to be hoisted by one’s own petard (there’s an interesting word!), I can’t think of any one word that applies to that event. “Irony” has to serve in common usage.

    Perhaps you can think of another word, since you have been hoisted so frequently…

  99. I’m sayin’ that there is nothing on the internet to support the existance of the alleged small business that mom allegedly started.

    LOL, reminds me of the commercial about the girl who believes everything she reads on the internet is true.

    Larry, you read the quote from the speech Ryan gave yesterday, now you say because it can’t be confirmed “on the internet” (LMAO!) it cannot be supported.

    In other words, you’re accusing Paul Ryan of lying about his own mother in a nationally covered speech. Denying that is your position would be… lying.

    But think about what a scoop you’ll have for the huffpo. I mean, all you have to do is spell his name right for it to be credible enough for them.

  100. harleyrider1 says:

    Mr. Johnson, surely you must know that a Vice-President can pass no laws. Only Congress has this authority. You can verify this with a little further reading in a library.

    You have no need to be afraid of Mr. Ryan or spread your fear.

    Might I also suggest that you personally talk with Mr. Ryan and not absorb the hateful, misleading mongering from those that want to see their own man elected.

    Mr. Ryan is no different than the rest of us. He has a mother who is on Medicare. He and his family will one day require a solvent elderly care program, too. The fact that something is solvent for another 20-years does not help Americans in school today.

    We are out of money. Someone spent it all. As Americans it is all our responsibility to see that those not entitled to “benefits” such as people from other countries that are not American citizens do not receive them. It’s not hateful – we just don’t have enough money to take care of our own people.

    We need to see that those that can work, that are receiving benefits, do work. We need to provide public work projects. People need their pride back. Working for what you earn is a start.

    We need to take care of our disabled and our elderly. And we need to plan for ourselves for the future. Let’s look at all ideas and see what might work, where we can compromise.

    The first step is to stop ads of people throwing old ladies off the cliff and scaring people by telling them if you vote for this or that person, you will die; you will lose everything you have, etc. No one will help you.

    Dividing Americans might be the unwritten motto of one party or maybe just some of its leaders, but it is un-American. Let’s not embrace it.

    And telling rape victims they should fear going to prison if they voted for Ryan is just mind-boggling. Where did you go to school at?

  101. Most kids getting survivor benefits are using it for food and clothing.

    You really have no clue.

    My dad died when I was young. My mom saved his survivor benefits for me until I was 18 too, and I used it to help with college as well. She also went to work to support us after his death, and she re-married. Because I kept my paternal father’s name and was never legally adopted by him, she was able to receive benefits until I turned eighteen. Sound familiar?

    Could my mom have used the benefits money to buy “food and clothing” instead of saving it? I’m sure she did for a few years, until she got her life back on track.

    I’d ask you to stick to a topic about which you may know something, but I realize that would be tantamount to self-banning, in your case.

  102. ClamatO – you may be able to ignore the topic of republican hypocrisy regarding government social programs; reasonable and rational voters don’t. That’s the problem Team Rolls-Royce has this year – No amount of lying and obfuscation can hide facts that are on full display. Their own past statements and in Ryan’s case, years of House votes betray their efforts to hide their true beliefs from the American voters.

    From Palin’s denials about the bridge to nowhere, to Ryan’s denials that he begged for Stimulus money after he spent months demagoging the Stimulus as government waste that wouldn’t create jobs, it appears the republicans are simply unable to identify and nominate vice presidents who are not strangers to the truth.

    The blatant hypocrisy and lying on the part of republicans is deeply disturbing.

  103. LeePHill says:

    “Most kids getting survivor benefits are using it for food and clothing.
    You really have no clue.
    My dad died when I was young. My mom saved his survivor benefits for me until I was 18 too, and I used it to help with college as well.”

    Actually, I have many clues. Aid to Dependent Children programs have been round since I was a kid in the 1950s, so I grew up with kids whose mothers or fathers were widowed and had to use that money for things like rent, food, and clothing. I’m glad that your mother was obviously able to not have to use the money for that, but it makes you the exception, as opposed to the norm.

    I’ll not share the part of my career were I worked with many kids whose parent had passed away. When I share REAL LIFE experience like that, you get annoyed.

    Your college education didn’t afford you the ability to read the phrase – “Most kids getting survivor benefits”?

    Harley – “where did you go to school at?” Someone might pose a similar question in your direction.

    Unless the person to whom you are speaking is named “at” and you preceed that with a comma, you have ended a sentence with a preposition. I wouldn’t bring this up but you’ve provided such a great opportunity for me to relive my middle school days when many of us guys were named “At”.

  104. LeePHill says:

    “We are out of money. Someone spent it all.”

    Quit buying weapons of mass destruction and trying to police the world. All of the Republicans who are taking a check from the government could impress us by saying “NO” when the next check arrives. Quit using your medicare. All of the businesses that love government contracts can quit taking said contracts because we can’t afford them.

    OK, have we saved any money?

  105. aislander says:

    Gee, all this time I was being told that Social Security was an insurance program and not means tested, that was all a lie?

    Since the majority of the population hasn’t been living in poverty (yet–but let’s not give the Dems a few more years to put us all there) and everyone gets SS, I’d have to say that it is highly likely that the majority uses survivor benefits for things other than…well…survival.

    Such as college, maybe…

  106. LeePHill says:

    “I believe it was Obama that said we’ll just give them a pain pill.”

    Funny, I don’t believe Obama ever said such a thing and knowing how many lies are told daily about Obama, I usually wait for proof before I believe anything from the mouth of a Republican.

  107. LeePHill says:

    Now…..here is a good reason why I don’t believe Republicans. Here is the complete context of what Obama said:

    Obama: “I don’t think that we can make judgments based on people’s ‘spirit.’ Uh, that would be, uh, a pretty subjective decision to be making. I think we have to have rules that, uh, say that, uh, we are going to provide good quality care for all people. End-of-life care is one of the most difficult sets of decisions that we’re going to have to make. But understand that those decisions are already being made in one way or another. If they’re not being made under Medicare and Medicaid, they’re being made by private insurers. At least we can let doctors know — and your mom know — that you know what, maybe this isn’t going to help. Maybe you’re better off, uhh, not having the surgery, but, uhh, taking the painkiller.”

    See. There is a perfect example of how people lie about what Obama said.

  108. LeePHill says:

    About Ryan’s mother…..

    We’ll never know, but I’d bet my grocery money that the spouse of a man with a successful law practice probably was the recipient of a sizeable life insurance policy with the death of her husband. This would allow her son the ability to save the dependent benefits and not have to use them for day to day expenses of life.

    I’ll stand my ground when I say that Paul Ryan’s mother is not “everyseniorcitizen”.

  109. Betting with an EBT card. Nice.

  110. aislander says:

    Senior citizens are the richest demographic in this nation…

  111. aislander says:

    …oops–I shouldn’t have let that get out. Now the lefties will be hatin’ on the old folks.

    (Thanks for the dialect, Joe Biden!)

  112. aislander says:

    But aren’t they already doing that with all the cuts in Medicare funding going to support Bamstercare?

  113. took14theteam says:

    The quote at 1:50 PM is a perfect example of the fine speaking qualities of BHO when he is off the teleprompter. And he pretty much said there is no return on the investment, so take a pain pill and die.

    And speaking of teleprompters, I believe it has been a year since roncella has passed, so RIP roncella.

  114. LeePHill says:

    “And he pretty much said there is no return on the investment, so take a pain pill and die.”

    Somoene needs reading lessons. At least a person that uses a teleprompter (every public speaker I see) knows how to read.

    What’s an EBT card, CT? (I’ll avoid the numbers to stay abreast of the latest name)

  115. aislander says:

    I knew it was getting close to that time, took1. MarksonofDarwin was asking about him a few weeks ago, and I had to tell her the bad news.

    Good guy.

  116. Aislander Says ‘Senior citizens are the richest demographic in the nation’ – why do I think this ‘fact’ was constructed the same way the ‘fact about ‘100 million on welfare’ was constructed?

  117. aislander says:

    This from CNN Money:

    “Households headed by adults ages 35 and younger had a median net worth of $3,662 in 2009. That marks a 68% decline in wealth, compared to that same age group 25 years earlier.

    “Over the same time frame, households headed by adults ages 65 years and older, have seen just the opposite. Their wealth rose 42%, to a median of $170,494.”

  118. “I believe it was Obama that said we’ll just give them a pain pill.”

    Funny, I don’t believe Obama ever said such a thing…

    Of course you don’t. But for anyone who needs a good laugh at Larry’s expense, here it is:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-dQfb8WQvo&feature=player_embedded

  119. ClamatO – you may be able to ignore the topic of republican hypocrisy regarding government social programs…

    Hey dt, are you still beating your mother?

    I like loaded question flames – especially when they’re loaded with BS. Shall we play?

  120. LeePHill says:

    Clam – I already posted Obama’s exact words.

    The video link you submitted testifies that my point….Obama said more than just “we’ll give them a pain pill”.

    As usual, CONS try to CON us by editing Obama’s statements. It’s really bad when they submit their own video showing that he said more than they claim and they still claim he didn’t say it.

    The obvious problem is that CONS suffer from

    UnableToComprehendEnglishIfObamaIsTalking Syndrome

  121. took14theteam says:

    As the _hills always say, “cue Jeopardy music”…..

    And I did have good laugh at Larry’s expense.

    Funny how the left never acknowledges the comments form BHO regarding the entire Obamcare ram it down the peoples throat legislation debate.

    But that is okay. Pelosi and Reed did their job to get it through with “special” procedures.

    And certain people here worry about filibusters……

  122. LeePHill says:

    “median wealth”

    When you include real estate that is paid off after 30 years, seniors would certainly top the list demographically. Most people prior to retirement are still in debt for their homes.

    Now, on the other side of afluency in demographic, how do senior citizens fare on spendable income? Not nearly as well.

    How many seniors, each year, send a letter to the editor talking about not being able to pay property taxes, even though they pay a reduced rate?

    Real estate isn’t worth money until it’s sold.

  123. Larry, somehow your… interpretation of what 0bama said just doesn’t have the impact of watching him struggle with those exact words on a tube clip.

    Spin it any way you like, Larrs, he said it.

  124. LeePHill says:

    No reason to spin exact words.

    If you are not able to comprehend simple English, there is nothing I can do to help you understand.

    Tell you what…here is an example.

    Here is what Frosty said..and apparently what you concur…

    “I believe it was Obama that said we’ll just give them a pain pill.”

    Now, here is what was REALLY SAID…in short statements so that you can comprehend:

    1. I think we have to have rules that, uh, say that, uh, we are going to provide good quality care for all people.

    2. End-of-life care is one of the most difficult sets of decisions that we’re going to have to make. But understand that those decisions are already being made in one way or another. If they’re not being made under Medicare and Medicaid, they’re being made by private insurers. (sorry, that one is a little long for a conservative, but I’d be misrepresenting the quote to have altered it)

    3. At least we can let doctors know — and your mom know — that you know what, maybe this isn’t going to help. Maybe you’re better off, uhh, not having the surgery, but, uhh, taking the painkiller.”

    At no time did Obama say “we’ll just give them a pain pill”, which would, of course, indicate that he was part of the decision making process, which, of course, he isn’t. He does reflect that possibly the doctors would suggest such but…..

    …WAIT A MINUTE…..WHAT AM I DOING????????????

    I’m trying to explain context to one of the fools that claims Biden is racist for saying “y’all”….as if millions of caucasian people in the
    South don’t say “y’all”……

    Nevermind.

  125. LeePHill says:

    What is laughable is how CONS can avoid the phrase – “If they’re not being made under Medicare and Medicaid, they’re being made by private insurers.” – in order to hear Obama say something he didn’t say.

    I’m waiting for the CONS to come up with Obama being a undercover illegal Mexican because he sings “Jose can you see” during the national anthem.

  126. LeePHill says:

    Look who said “y’all”…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCRqYEOVMx4

  127. aislander says:

    Obama DOES sound as if English is his second language sometimes. I heard him say that Republicans were trying to “hoist” something on the American people…

  128. Another Hate America letter from a lying left wing supporter of the WORST President in American history, osama HUSSEIN FOOD STAMP obamuuuh.
    Under the Ryan play, NO one currently in medicare that is 55 and over will have any changes to there plan.
    Under the Ryan plan, those under 55 would have the OPTION of staying in the current system with NO changes, or they could get a voucher to go elsewhere and save money.
    It is HUSSEIN obamuuuh, who took 718 BILLION a year out of medicare to pay for his deathcare.
    So HUSSEIN is taking money from those of us who have paid into the system to help pay for a failed system for those who have paid nothing into the system.
    It’s osama who is trying to end medicare as we know it, not Ryan.
    The Ryan plan will work just as everything HUSSEIN has tried has failed.
    Remember, if you HATE America, vote dumbocrap.

  129. SwordofPerseus says:

    Remember if you want your children to turn out like CThate or demzsuk, do not vote Republicon. They want to change public education to a voucher system. We need to fix education. We need to fix the healthcare system.

  130. Speaking of Medicare there is the sordid tale of Mitt’s tenure on the board of Damon Clinical Laboratories, which plead guilty to charges of defrauding Medicare and agreed to pay what was at the time the largest health care criminal fraud fine in history – $35,300,000. They also agreed to larger civil fines which totaled $83,700,000.
    http://occupytvstations.com/news/297926

  131. Another possible reason why Mitt doesn’t want to share his taxes (and why Ryan isn’t going to give us more than two years’ worth)

    Mitt Romney may have breached state ethics laws as Governor of Massachusetts by holding a stake in a company that did lucrative work for his administration and was linked to the family of Paul Ryan, a Daily Telegraph investigation has found.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/us-election/9483845/US-election-Mitt-Romney-may-have-breached-ethics-laws-through-company-linked-to-Paul-Ryans-brother.html

  132. Both Romney and Ryan owe their good fortunes to the public sector. When Romney’s father, George, first moved to the United States from Mexico, the penniless family survived on government relief in Texas before moving to California. After his missionary work, Romney’s father worked for 2 years as a staffer on Capitol Hill, then, after a failed business, he was hired as a lobbyist for Alcoa. He also lobbied for the Aluminum Wares Association, before becoming a spokesman and lobbyist for the automobile industry, a position that led to his appointment as CEO of the American Motors Corporation. He left that position to become Governor of Michigan. After a bid for the White House in 1968, George Romney was named Secretary of Housing and Urban Development by Richard Nixon.

    Paul Ryan, whose grandfather served as U.S. Attorney for the Western District of Wisconsin under President Calvin Coolidge, received Social Security survivor’s benefits after his father died when he was just 16. He saved them up to pay for college, and then went to work as a Congressional staffer after graduating. Ryan then became a speech-writer for Freedom Works (which was then called Empower America), before joining Jack Kemp in his bid to become vice president in 1996. After a year working for the family business, he was first elected to Congress in 1998.

    http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/joshua-holland/45008/report-romney-may-have-violated-ethics-laws-through-company-linked-to-paul-ryans-brother

  133. And, connecting to the letter’s hypothetical – Missouri Republican Senate candidate says that pregnancy isn’t possible in cases of “legitimate” rape.

    Remind me how the term “war on women” was unwarranted…..

  134. Neither Romney or Ryan want to dismantle the safety net. They want to make it sustainable and ensure it does not lead to long term dependence on govt.

    What are you implying by stating they benefited from govt programs?

  135. menopaws says:

    Well, I see someone let Frosty out of his cage……..Still need to up his meds though–the rants have little basis in reality………The issue with Medicare is still pretty simple…Give seniors those $6000 vouchers, which is a drop in the bucket of health care……Then, they take some of their money plus voucher $$$$ to buy private insurance. Those who cannot afford to do that will stick with traditional Medicare. Private insurance will do higher co-pays, so Dr.’s will quit taking Medicare patients…….Voila–can you say “death panels”? the Republicans have figured out a way to kill Medicare and knock off the poor elderly at the same time……..And, it all looks sooooo goood on paper, doesn’t it? The only system that will work is the one that supports ALL of the elderly……..not just those who can afford private care……..Medicare was created because the elderly could NOT get insurance…….Look at the history of how the program was created…..One last thing–the Obama adminstration has prosecuted more cases of Medicare fraud than any other adminstration………They have worked very hard to weed out the waste…..That, too–another fact…..Pay attention to the program and what is being done to protect it……

  136. uratroll says:

    More Kool-Aid please!

  137. How far are you willing to follow Paul Ryan?

    BETTER QUESTION:

    How far are you willing to follow Barack Hussein 0bama?

    No further, says the latest Newsweek (OUCH!!!) cover:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/08/19/niall-ferguson-on-why-barack-obama-needs-to-go.html

  138. LeePHill says:

    The opening line of the OPINION piece from Newsweek:

    “I was a good loser four years ago.”

    Now there is NEWS!!! A conservative writer thinks Obama needs to go…

  139. LeePHill says:

    “CT8 says:
    Aug. 20, 2012 at 6:05 am Neither Romney or Ryan want to dismantle the safety net. They want to make it sustainable and ensure it does not lead to long term dependence on govt.”

    Right out of the “keep the government out of my Medicare” file….LOL

  140. MyBandito says:

    The Medicare tax rate has not changed since the mid 80’s. Inflation alone should dictate an increase. That would solve any funding issues.

    Hopefully, Floridians will see through Mitt’s smoke and mirrors.

  141. Now there is NEWS!!! A conservative writer thinks Obama needs to go…

    Uh-humm… “message/ messenger”?

    Ferguson’s Newsweek 5 page piece (linked above) is the most concise chronicle of the many irrefutable (threw that in for mol.ehill) failures (economy, foreign policy, dedt, overall lack of leadership and experience, etc., etc, etc…) of the 0bama administration that I’ve seen yet.

    Shoot the messenger at your own peril, Larry. Fact is NEWSWEEK chose to put it on the cover with the header “Hit The Road Barack Why We Need A New President”. Doesn’t matter who wrote it, the editors have complete control over the cover – not to mention headers.

    Spin away Larrs, but the tide’s turning. Don’t believe me? Maybe you’ll believe Politico:

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79867.html

    Trainwreck’s coming – can you hear it?

  142. Frankenchrist says:

    lol, what is Ryan’s position on “legitimate rape?”

    Gotta love the Teapublicans, always snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

  143. aislander says:

    SOMETHING has the lefties stirred up. Is it the Newsweek article or the one from Politico? Or the latest poll numbers?

    beerBoy: If your source is correct that Romney and Ryan, through their families, benefited from government programs, doesn’t that lend credence to their avowed position that they wish to fix–not end–those programs? Shouldn’t that make you more likely to support them than less?

  144. aislander – I’m thinking it is more along the lines of Clarence Thomas (who wasn’t even the most qualified black conservative lawyer available – let alone most qualified legal mind in the country) who benefited greatly from Affirmative Action and, since then, has been very adamant in his attempts to destroy the program that made his career possible.

  145. LeePHill says:

    “Ferguson’s Newsweek 5 page piece (linked above) is the most concise chronicle of the many irrefutable (threw that in for mol.ehill) failures (economy, foreign policy, dedt, overall lack of leadership and experience, etc., etc, etc…) of the 0bama administration that I’ve seen yet.”

    OK…let’s pick one at random – “foreign policy failures”. Please cite what those are….if they are so “irrefutable”. Knocking off Bin Laden and most of the leaders of terrorist cells is a failure???

    I really liked “overall lack of leadership failure”. Now THERE is something you can really measure…… Oh and the old plum of “experience failure”. Yeah….that’s quantitative, isn’t it?

    Nothing to spin. A few laughs, but nothing to spin.

  146. LeePHill says:

    “Frankenchrist says:
    Aug. 20, 2012 at 9:49 am lol, what is Ryan’s position on “legitimate rape?”

    Ryan and Atkin both had their fingers in the re-defining of “rape” on HR 3

  147. OK…let’s pick one at random – “foreign policy failures”. Please cite what those are…

    Larry, I know it hurts to read Newsweek this week so, since you won’t, so here’s one “at random” from the cover story:

    Believing it was his role to repudiate neoconservatism, Obama completely missed the revolutionary wave of Middle Eastern democracy—precisely the wave the neocons had hoped to trigger with the overthrow of Saddam Hussein in Iraq. When revolution broke out—first in Iran, then in Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, and Syria—the president faced stark alternatives. He could try to catch the wave by lending his support to the youthful revolutionaries and trying to ride it in a direction advantageous to American interests. Or he could do nothing and let the forces of reaction prevail.

    In the case of Iran he did nothing, and the thugs of the Islamic Republic ruthlessly crushed the demonstrations. Ditto Syria. In Libya he was cajoled into intervening. In Egypt he tried to have it both ways, exhorting Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak to leave, then drawing back and recommending an “orderly transition.” The result was a foreign-policy debacle. Not only were Egypt’s elites appalled by what seemed to them a betrayal, but the victors—the Muslim Brotherhood—had nothing to be grateful for. America’s closest Middle Eastern allies—Israel and the Saudis—looked on in amazement.

    “This is what happens when you get caught by surprise,” an anonymous American official told The New York Times in February 2011. “We’ve had endless strategy sessions for the past two years on Mideast peace, on containing Iran. And how many of them factored in the possibility that Egypt moves from stability to turmoil? None.”

  148. I really liked “overall lack of leadership failure”. Now THERE is something you can really measure…… Oh and the old plum of “experience failure”. Yeah….that’s quantitative, isn’t it?

    So you want me to keep ‘em coming? You should quit while you’re a behind:

    On paper it looked like an economics dream team: Larry Summers, Christina Romer, and Austan Goolsbee, not to mention Peter Orszag, Tim Geithner, and Paul Volcker. The inside story, however, is that the president was wholly unable to manage the mighty brains—and egos—he had assembled to advise him.

    According to Ron Suskind’s book Confidence Men, Summers told Orszag over dinner in May 2009: “You know, Peter, we’re really home alone … I mean it. We’re home alone. There’s no adult in charge. Clinton would never have made these mistakes [of indecisiveness on key economic issues].” On issue after issue, according to Suskind, Summers overruled the president. “You can’t just march in and make that argument and then have him make a decision,” Summers told Orszag, “because he doesn’t know what he’s deciding.” (I have heard similar things said off the record by key participants in the president’s interminable “seminar” on Afghanistan policy.)

  149. Frankenchrist says:

    LeePHill,

    It’s all part and parcel of the Republican War on Women.

  150. Insert deflection. The frontline on the war on women is BHOs campaign staff. How much are men paid vs women?

  151. harleyrider1 says:

    I’m not sure why Americans need to attack other Americans or their beliefs. It serves no one.

    Paul Ryan’s plan that some of the bloggers speak about here is a 2011 one. It’s always good to double-check.

    The House Budget Committee Chairman rolled out a different version in 2012, taking into account Democratic critiques. While it may be popular or maybe some are just misinformed so the 2011 is one they want to raise for scare tactics, the actual 2012 plan that was rolled out months back has one key point that is not being pointed out:

    Seniors are offered a choice. They can use a monthly payment to purchase private insurance or stay in the traditional Medicare.

    No one has to change. It’s a choice. It’s what America is all about. This was a compromise to the initial 2011 draft.

    Fact check

  152. MyBandito says:

    Medicare works fine the way it is. It could stand a small funding increase. What purpose is served by changing the rules? I’m especially skeptical when the proposal comes from someone on the Right who wants to see Medicare a thing of the past.

  153. So you have a closed-mind?

    And it works fine? It is part of a larger problem, our massive debt and deficit. Entitlement vs investment spending. Less workers more takers.

    Come on.

  154. LeePHill says:

    Now an opinion piece from a conservative writer is “FACT” as to what Obama did and how well he did?

    Tell you what….let’s take the same issues and have a less than conservative source analyze them. Oh wait…..someone already did….

    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/08/a-full-fact-check-of-niall-fergusons-very-bad-argument-against-obama/261306/

    Now….who is right?

  155. MyBandito says:

    I’m not open to allowing Medicare to be ruined by the likes of Ryan. If he wanted to make it better, he should think about proper funding, not parting it out.

  156. FC, great question. I not received one notification, email, etc from the moderators. What I suspect is people like you flag my comments after hours and the system just locks you out. Nice trick.

    It does not change the fact that you never provide substance or back up your rhetoric.

  157. Mb, he is thinking about proper funding, for the whole govt.

    Do you think we can borrow a trillion dollars a year forever? What spending blueprint (budget) have the dems put forth?

  158. Frankenchrist says:

    Rep. Paul Ryan co-sponsored a bill with Rep. Akin which redefined rape to a lower standard.

    Republican War on Women.

  159. LeePHill says:

    What is an “entitlement”?

    Before answering questions, the terminology must first be determined.

  160. LeePHill says:

    “CT8 says:
    Aug. 20, 2012 at 11:36 am FC, great question. I not received one notification, email, etc from the moderators. What I suspect is people like you flag my comments after hours and the system just locks you out. Nice trick.”

    A simple phone call to the moderator would clarify the entire issue. Of course one must deal with the outcome with intellectual honesty.

    If someone is talking about what takes place “after hours”, let’s take a look at who is up in the middle of the night on this forum….

    “Do you think we can borrow a trillion dollars a year forever?”

    No, we need to match our expense needs with taxation and quit giving away government services to corporate interests.

  161. aislander says:

    Corporate “welfare” is the mirror image of regulation. Both are a politicization of business and the latter always leads to the former.

  162. LeePHill says:

    Providing services without a fee is a quick way to bankruptcy.

    No amount of rhetoric will change the issue that $10 of cost, versus no income is $10 lost.

  163. Okay, Larry, I’ll play along. Now let’s see what a democrat Senator has to say about a few aspects of current US foreign Policy – specifically as it applies to China:

    On June 21, China’s State Council approved the establishment of a new national prefecture which it named Sansha, with its headquarters on Woody Island in the Paracel Islands. Called Yongxing by the Chinese, Woody Island has no indigenous population and no natural water supply, but it does sport a military-capable runway, a post office, a bank, a grocery store and a hospital.

    The Paracels are more than 200 miles southeast of Hainan, mainland China’s southernmost territory, and due east of Vietnam’s central coast. Vietnam adamantly claims sovereignty over the island group, the site of a battle in 1974 when China attacked the Paracels in order to oust soldiers of the former South Vietnamese regime.

    The potential conflicts stemming from the creation of this new Chinese prefecture extend well beyond the Paracels. Over the last six weeks the Chinese have further proclaimed that the jurisdiction of Sansha includes not just the Paracel Islands but virtually the entire South China Sea, connecting a series of Chinese territorial claims under one administrative rubric. According to China’s official news agency Xinhua, the new prefecture “administers over 200 islets” and “2 million square kilometers of water.” To buttress this annexation, 45 legislators have been appointed to govern the roughly 1,000 people on these islands, along with a 15-member Standing Committee, plus a mayor and a vice mayor.

    These political acts have been matched by military and economic expansion. On July 22, China’s Central Military Commission announced that it would deploy a garrison of soldiers to guard the islands in the area. On July 31, it announced a new policy of “regular combat-readiness patrols” in the South China Sea. And China has now begun offering oil exploration rights in locations recognized by the international community as within Vietnam’s exclusive economic zone.

    For all practical purposes China has unilaterally decided to annex an area that extends eastward from the East Asian mainland as far as the Philippines, and nearly as far south as the Strait of Malacca. China’s new “prefecture” is nearly twice as large as the combined land masses of Vietnam, South Korea, Japan and the Philippines. Its “legislators” will directly report to the central government.

    American reaction has been muted. The State Department waited until Aug. 3 before expressing official concern over China’s “upgrading of its administrative level . . . and establishment of a new military garrison” in the disputed areas. The statement was carefully couched within the context of long-standing policies calling for the resolution of sovereignty issues in accordance with international law and without the use of military force.

    Even so, the Chinese government responded angrily, warning that State Department officials had “confounded right and wrong, and sent a seriously wrong message.” The People’s Daily, a quasi-official publication, accused the U.S. of “fanning the flames and provoking division, deliberately creating antagonism with China.” Its overseas edition said it was time for the U.S. to “shut up.”

    Continuing:

    While America’s attention is distracted by the presidential campaign, all of East Asia is watching what the U.S. will do about Chinese actions in the South China Sea. They know a test when they see one. They are waiting to see whether America will live up to its uncomfortable but necessary role as the true guarantor of stability in East Asia, or whether the region will again be dominated by belligerence and intimidation.

    Former Secretary of the Navy under Ronald Reagan, and current Democrat Senator for Virginia, Jim Webb, writing in the Wall Street Journal (hey, if you can use The Atlantic, I can use the WSL).

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444184704577587483914661256.html

    Like I said, lack of leadership – in this case on foreign policy, your chosen topic.

  164. Tell you what….let’s take the same issues and have a less than conservative source analyze them.

    LMAO, again, Larry, it somehow is just not the same. I posted a factual article from an certifiably left-leaning rag, that was written by a conservative. You respond with a predictable piece of damage control spun out by a far-left writer (formerly of The New Republic) in an unembarrassed liberal rag. (BTW, love his reference to the same mission undertaken by famous 0bama and democrat propagandist, James Fallows – also of the Atlantic.)

    Surprise, surprise.

    And by the way, Larrs, that was possibly the most unconvincing piece of cherry-picked “fact checking” I’ve seen in a while. But not exactly a shocker for The Atlantic.

    I think this commenter summed it up best:

    I used to think the Atlantic was among the highest quality news sources on the planet. However, recently it has become little more than a political spin machine for the Obama campaign. The big issue here is that Newsweek published this criticism of Obama and Newsweek has always been left-leaning. The Atlantic is selective about the facts used in the rebuttal. The central thesis by Ferguson is correct. Obama is a failed leader.

    But following a “failed leader” is nothing new to Larry, et al.

  165. LeePHill says:

    “I posted a factual article from an certifiably left-leaning rag, that was written by a conservative.”

    You have to love when someone calls a publication with a conservative’s article on the cover “left leaning”…..

    I would think that if they are TRULY left leaning (see who publishes Newsweek) and they published a right wing hit piece (I love rhetoric also) on their cover….that would made them very centered.

    In November 2010 Newsweek merged with the news and conservative opinion website The Daily Beast after extensive negotiations between the proprietors of the respective publications. Tina Brown, The Daily Beast’s editor-in-chief has since served as the editor of both publications. Newsweek is jointly owned by the estate of the late Harman and the diversified American Internet company IAC.[4][5]

    ::::horrified look:::::

    MERGED WITH CONSERVATIVE WEBSITE IN 2010?????????

    Someone didn’t send Clam the memo about the merger….

  166. aislander says:

    Not to defend Akin (I think politicians SHOULD be able to avoid saying things that end up biting them in the butt, regardless of intent), but “you didn’t build that…”

    Hold their feet to the fire, I say!

  167. LeePHill says:

    “you didn’t build that”

    Hmmm….it seems we are missing quite a bit of the quote….

    Let’s look at the CONTEXT of Akin’s statement:

    Congressman Akin said, basing this view on “what I understand from doctors.” ….“If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down,” Akin said on KTVI-TV.

    Not only was Akin quite clear, but he claims to have spoken to doctors on the subject.

    I doubt seriously that this explanation will change the tactic of the CONS – taking Obama out of context – but it’s sure fun to rub it in their faces one more time.

  168. LeePHill says:

    Quote the WSJ and a commenter to bolster your conservative author on a left leaning rag that merge with a conservative news website, why doncha????

  169. You probably completely disagree with this, uh-humph… conservative POV/ cover from Newsweek too, ‘eh Larrs:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2012/07/29/michael-tomasky-a-candidate-with-a-serious-wimp-problem.html

    One truthful article and cover does not a conservative trend make. And Howard Kurtz and David Frum are no Krauthammers, now are they.

  170. LeePHill, it’s very difficult to stuff a wet noodle through a worm hole. That’s what you and your cohorts remind me of when you fail to recognize and admit that the entire target of Obama’s answer boils down to one solution, “give them a pain pill”. No matter how you try to color it, that is what he said. If Romney had said the exact same thing that Obama said, you libs would be having seizures. Some people know how to read between the lines. Obviously you libs haven’t progressed to that point yet.

  171. The libs are having a field day with the stupid comments of congressman Akin. They remind me of a man trying to grab on to anything he can to keep from drowning. They have no issues of substance to hang their hats on in support of their idol, so they grasp onto to every word muttered by a conservative. A childish bunch of whackos for sure. MSNBC and CNN have spent to entire day talking about what Akin said while the country goes down the drain. Fools!

  172. Back to the topic at hand. “How far are you willing to follow Paul Ryan?” Short answer is as far as it takes to get this bunch of crooks out of the White House! Good enough?

  173. ClamtO, I don’t think the Chinese are too worried about a country that sends it’s Sec. Of State out to dance the “watusi”. BTW, great postings!

  174. averageJose says:

    widespread misuse of the word LMAO! Talk about misuse of a word… widespread.

    So it wasn’t ironic… just very fitting and insightful.

  175. If, as aislander has asserted NOBODY except high-school AP English teachers uses the word “irony” according to its strict meaning(s) then “widespread misuse of the word” is an apt characterization.

    Perhaps you should look up the word “clueless”, because that last post is a clear demonstration of that.

    Sorry that I can’t draw you a diagram. If you, like frosty, don’t understand what aislander and I are talking about – perhaps you should stay out of the conversation. The village idiot laughs his ass off when he doesn’t understand too.

  176. Anything but substance…

  177. took14theteam says:

    Someone has too much head in his beer…

    :-)

  178. MyBandito says:

    “How far are you willing to follow Paul Ryan?”

    Off a cliff, if that’s what it takes to get Obama out of the White House?

  179. SwordofPerseus says:

    CT8’s new tag line “Anything but substance…”

  180. SwordofPerseus says:

    I’m curious how far the Cons will go, will they steal the election again if the exit polls show Obama leading? Like they did in 2000 in Florida, or like they did in Ohio in 2004?

  181. “The Democrats want to scare the elderly … pretty soon we are over the cliff. If anything should induce fear and trembling, it’s that prospect”

    Scaring people – bad when Democrats do it, but good when Republicans do it. Thanks for the excellent example of the term “double-standard.”

  182. end italics.

  183. ” Obamacare is an expensive flop. Fact.”

    Ahh, yet another zealot who confuses their opinions with facts.

  184. “a predictable piece of damage control spun out by a far-left writer (formerly of The New Republic)”

    Your own words: “Fact is NEWSWEEK chose to put it on the cover with the header “Hit The Road Barack Why We Need A New President”. Doesn’t matter who wrote it

    Thanks again for the excellent example of the term “double-standard.”

  185. In response to criticisms of his Newsweek article – that he was being deliberately misleading in his presentation of information, Niall Ferguson published a defense which was summed up by Joe Wiesenthal of Business Insider this way:

    Again, Niall Ferguson’s defense is that he was being very obtuse and misleading.
    http://www.businessinsider.com/niall-fergusons-embarrassing-response-to-paul-krugman-2012-8

  186. And there is there is this:

    Anyway, as you read Niall Ferguson, it’s worth noting that he has been wrong on economics ever since Obama took office.

    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/niall-ferguson-has-been-wrong-on-economics-2012-8#ixzz24HLASJ5O

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