Letters to the Editor

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MARRIAGE: Traditional marriage passing away

Letter by Vince A. Wagner, University Place on Aug. 15, 2012 at 12:55 pm with 39 Comments »
August 15, 2012 12:55 pm

Re: “Wedding signals a sea change” (TNT, 8-14).

How did we get to the place where a homosexual wedding is front-page news?

Could anyone have ever predicted that the time would come when we would be debating what is and is not a marriage? Debating if the fundamental husband and wife part of a marriage is constitutional? Debating if the fundamental father and mother part of the family is constitutional?

Is marriage and the family as we have known it passing away right before our eyes? For some time now homosexual radicals have demanded that their behavior receive more and more recognitions, considerations and protections. The response from many has been, so what?

Worse, many just yawned when homosexual radicals invented a nonsensical, nonexistent condition called homophobia to take the focus off of what they do and place a stigma on anyone who opposes moral relativism to rule the day.

Now because of our silence we are in a battle for the very soul of this nation.

Sadly the most popular thing to say today is, “Jesus never addressed the issues of homosexuality or marriage so why should I deny someone’s love?”

But the fact is, Jesus does address and is crystal clear on both issues. The fact that Jesus was committed to heterosexual marriage and opposed to any sexual immorality, including homosexuality, could not be more evident.

Jesus loves all and promises forgivenesss and deliverance to any who come to him, heterosexual or homosexual.

Leave a comment Comments → 39
  1. Ah, Vince, people like you were writing letters that sounded just like yours when my hometown newspaper depicted interracial couples getting married when a temporary court order allowed them to, much against the majority opinion who said it was redefining marriage and against God’s will.

    It was the hot button target of those who only wanted “traditional marriage” in the South and who blamed those Yankee activists for bringing such a disgusting idea to the South.

    Interracial marriage did not affect any one else’s marriage, no matter how unsavory and disgusting it was to those who opposed it based on their religious beliefs. Same-sex marriage wil not affect anyone else’s marriage, even if you find it against your personal version of Christianity (which will also not be affected by gay marraige).

  2. I’m just trying to figure out why a gay couple getting married is still “news”?

    Congrats you’re getting married, you can now join in the misery with the rest of us.

  3. Tuddo: Exactly. Societies evolve; always have, always will. And always there are those who prefer the status quo, who find new realities deeply alarming because it’s outside of their safe zone, or what they’re used to.

    Pick your advancement – women’s vote, interracial marriage, non-Christian males teaching in public school, ending segregation, female CEO’s, female politicians, females in the military, gays in the military, gay marriage. Our society has survived just fine thanks, in fact it’s grown stronger despite the best efforts of those like the letter writer to forestall social advancement.

  4. Fibonacci says:

    Homosexual radicals and nonexistent condition called homophobia——–after that who can take you seriously?

  5. Frankenchrist says:

    If marriage is sanctified by God why don’t priests get married instead of abusing altar boys?

  6. earlyriser says:

    No, traditional marriage is not endangered. Men and women who want to marry will still do so, and most people, at some point in their lives, will marry. Have no fear!! Your sons and daughters will not turn away in disgust from the institution of marriage because of a photo in the TNT.


  7. surething says:


  8. ThePrincipledPatriot says:


    Interracial couples?

    The writer isn’t talking about God-given characteristics such as race.

    The person was talking about behavior. Sexually immoral behavior. Homosexuality. There is no comparison.

    Race is a God-given characteristic that is involuntary, immutable and innocuous. Homosexuality is none of the above!

    No one can choose what race or gender they will be. No one can change what race or gender they can be without mutilating themselves, and no one because of their race or gender is inevitably harmful.

    Again, homosexuals cannot lay claim to any of the above. Sexual behavior is a choice, people flip-flop back and forth often, and homosexual behavior is certainly not innocuous. Homosexuals are most harmful to themselves, not to mention others.

  9. ThePrincipledPatriot says:


    Don’t you mean homosexual pedophile priests?

  10. ThePrincipledPatriot, I am very supportive of your right to believe anything you want as long as it doesn’t harm someone else, even if it goes against science. Unfortuately, your beliefs about gays do harm people, while mine affect no one but gay people.

    I am a Christian, and therefore I believe sexuality is a God-given characteristic. There is a purpose why God made some individuals 100% heterosexual, some people 100% homosexual, and a lot of people somewhere along that continuum.

    I don’t deny marriage to asexuals, people who have indeterminate gender or any other God-created characteristic, either.

  11. TPP is not a patriot.

  12. RegisteringFool says:

    It simply amazes me how someone can claim the moral high ground when he/she is breaking new ground.

    Much has been said elsewhere about the various ways that the institution of marriage had been perverted in the past – coverture, miscegenation, polygamy, etc. However, for all of its permutations, good and bad, there was one constant within the institution of marriage, the possibility of procreation.

    Now, if the LGBT community has its way, even that will be lost, and the definition of marriage is diluted, perhaps fatally. Nonetheless the LGBT wants their covenants and ceremonies to carry the moniker of “marriage”, to which I say, “Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.”

  13. took14theteam says:

    It simply amazes me how someone can claim the moral high ground

    I assume you were referring to the one and only Publico….

    He has been all over the letters today with his self righteous indignation.

  14. RegisteringFool, most societies long ago took the necessity for procreation out of marriage. In our society, it does not matter if two people can procreate or not, they can still get married.

    I guess next you will require a fertility test for marriage, based on the unsupportable logic you are using.

  15. writnstuff says:

    Heck, I still can’t believe we pay for bottled water.

  16. writnstuff says:

    RF said: It simply amazes me how someone can claim the moral high ground when he/she is breaking new ground.

    Rosa Parks comes to mind.

  17. writnstuff says:

    TPP, I bet you hate left handed people too.

  18. Principled,
    If God made humans who made some of them homosexuals?

    most (as in almost all) pedophiles are not homosexual.

    Most (as in almost all) homosexuals are not pedophiles.

  19. took14theteam says:


    Proof read xring. Proof read.

    I read another comment from you on another letter, and you were actually coherent.

    Do you purposely try to come across as an un educated liberal most of the time?

  20. averageJose says:

    xring… the male priests who single out boys to molest are homosexual pedophiles.

  21. ThePrincipledPatriot says:


    If you are a Christian, how do you get past what scripture teaches us about the sin of homosexuality?

    Read; 1 Cor. chapter 6, 1 Tim. chapter 1, Romans chapter 1 and get back to me with a sane answer.

    Second, show me in scripture where God said He created homosexuals?

    Read Genesis chapters 1 & 2, Matthew chapter 19, Mark chapter 10 and get back to me with a sane answer.

  22. ThePrincipledPatriot says:


    I hate no one!

    However, I do stand against immorality.

    Why, because scripture commands us to do so, and because this country needs God’s blessing.

  23. LeePHill says:

    “God’s blessing”

    First…how about proving “God”?

    Once you have accomplished that you’ll then have to prove that “God” can “bless” and that “God’s blessing” is something that anyone really wants.

    If “God’s blessing” would make me act like most of the Christians on newspaper forums…..no thanks. Unbless me, if necessary.

  24. LeePHill says:

    “get back to me with a sane answer”

    As if a “sane answer” is from a mythology book….

  25. The PrincipledPatriot, first, our secular laws look at what harms society and people in our society, not what the Bible might or might not say is a sin.

    I have studied the Bible carefully, and while I respect some scholars who point out Old Testament laws against male prostitution in the temple as meaning homosexuality is a sin, I look at the New Testament and only find a few passages where Paul, not Jesus, spoke against it. (Paul, a mysoginist who felt that celibacy was better than marriage in all cases .)

    These are mainly passages against the fairly common Christian practice at the time of having sex with priests, both male and female, as a part of idol worship that Paul was trying to stamp out in Roman territories.

    I attend a Christian church that sanctions gay marriages. I left the Southern Baptist denomination where I was an ordained minister because of their misuse of Bible passages to deny secular rights to certain groups. They have since changed on that issue, and they will change on this issue, too, but too slowly for my taste and not in my lifetime.

    My final decision was based on whether or not I think that one part of one religion should dictate to others who do not believe the same thing and codify it in law. I do n ot. I believe that separation of church and state was a God-given philosophy that has allowed our diverse soicety to be at peace, even while we disagree so vehemently on our personal religious practices and beliefs.

    I might ask you, like I ask others, why do we have laws that allow divorce, and why aren’t conservative Christian churches pushing as hard or harder to outlaw such a practice, when it is even clearer from the Bible that Jesus said we should not allow divorce that any statement on gay marriage? After all it affects far more families, far more of the population than gay marriage would.

    We allow it, because marriage and divorce are civil actions in our society. Yes, you can have your marriage “sanctified” in a church, but it is still a valid marriage if you don’t.

    If a person doesn’t believe in divorce, they don’t have to get one. If they don’t believe in gay marriage, they don’t have to get one.

    So, if you do everything scripture commands you to do, then I wait to see your stand and evangelical churches’ stand against the immorality of allowing divorce in our country. Women who remarry after a divorce must be stoned to death, like the Bible says, right?

    Oh, and outlaw shellfish while you are at it. I am allergic to it and can’t eat it, so no one should be able to enjoy that succulent Dungeoness crab!

  26. So TPP – you (like the Church hierarchy) think the “heterosexual” pedophile priests (and there were many incidents of cross-gender abuse) aren’t as bad as the “homosexual” pedophiles?

    Pedophiles aren’t heterosexual or homosexual in the adult sense of the term because they have sexual attractions for children and do not feel attracted to adults of either gender. There are a few who have specific gender preferences but, for the vast majority, the attraction is to children first, gender second.

  27. averageJose says:


  28. I guess, in your case, ignorance is bliss….

  29. ThePrincipledPatriot says:


    Prove God? How bout disprove God?

    And, I sure will take His blessings. Thank God this nation has had His blessing!

    Your last statement does break my heart because for Christians our prayer is that all, those struggling with the sin of homosexual behavior and those struggling with heterosexual immorality will come to know that Jesus loves them and promises forgiveness and deliverance for all that come to Him.

    The inspired Word of God; a myth. Wow, what a statement!

    I hope you have a “One Nation Under God” – “In God We Trust” kind of day.

  30. ThePrincipledPatriot says:


    What real proff is there besides what liberals insist, that Paul was a mysoginist?

    And, Christians do speak out and push against the sin of divorce. They do against the murder of the unborn. They do against the sin of homosexuality. They do against all sinful behavior in LOVE.

    Read Matthew, chapter 19, and Mark, chapter 10, and tell me again how Jesus doesn’t endorse marriage between 1 man and 1 woman only.

    Get out of the Old Testament.

  31. ThePrincipledPatriot says:


    Sexual immorality be it heterosexual pedophilia or homosexual pedophilia is an abomination!

    Nice try in your attempt to define pedophilia!

    If you are an adult male, and you prey on adolescent males; then you are a homosexual pedophile – not just a pedophile. Quit candy-coating the behavior.

  32. Another problem related to terminology arises because sexual abuse of male children by adult men2 is often referred to as “homosexual molestation.” The adjective “homosexual” (or “heterosexual” when a man abuses a female child) refers to the victim’s gender in relation to that of the perpetrator. Unfortunately, people sometimes mistakenly interpret it as referring to the perpetrator’s sexual orientation.

    To avoid this confusion, it is preferable to refer to men’s sexual abuse of boys with the more accurate label of male-male molestation. Similarly, it is preferable to refer to men’s abuse of girls as male-female molestation. These labels are more accurate because they describe the sex of the individuals involved but don’t implicitly convey unwarranted assumptions about the perpetrator’s sexual orientation.

    The distinction between a victim’s gender and a perpetrator’s sexual orientation is important because many child molesters don’t really have an adult sexual orientation. They have never developed the capacity for mature sexual relationships with other adults, either men or women. Instead, their sexual attractions focus on children – boys, girls, or children of both sexes.


  33. LeePHill says:

    “If you are an adult male, and you prey on adolescent males; then you are a homosexual pedophile – not just a pedophile. Quit candy-coating the behavior.”

    I’ll take the word of the professionals that study this subject, as opposed to the SkyFairyBeliever Society that spends their time creating multiple monikers with the same old tired mantra.

  34. LeePHill says:

    “What real proff is there besides what liberals insist, that Paul was a mysoginist?”

    You have to laugh at the ones that think Christianity is own by the conservatives, when it was that exact group that Jesus spoke out against.

  35. LeePHill says:

    “ThePrincipledPatriot says:
    Aug. 16, 2012 at 9:26 am LeePHill,
    Prove God? How bout disprove God?”

    Logic 101 – those who claim existence must prove, unless you say that the Fly Spaghetti Monster is real, since you have no proof to the contrary.

  36. The burden of proof should fall to the one asserting that something exists. This makes sense because it is, as Rumsfeld asserted about WMDs, impossible to prove a negative.

    As LeePHill has put forward – since you can’t disprove that any imaginary beings like fairies, leprechauns, unicorns, flying spaghetti monsters exist then – according to you – they must exist.

  37. SwordofPerseus says:

    ThePrincipalParrot; Whenever I see a person using “scripture” as a basis for their argument I realize that this person has no logic or facts to back any argument he may present, and immediately dismiss them as a crank. But just out of curiosity, at what age did you decide to not be gay?

    “Prove God? How bout disprove God?” Simple, there is no god. Because “something” has to make “stuff” so we aren’t scared of the dark and so superstitious people long ago believed in spirits and ghosts and witches! Let’s not return to the dark ages, we should be an enlightened people by now and organized religion has no place in a civilized society. The hatred, fear, shame and ignorance advanced by religious cults are a drag on humanity and we should know better if we study the lessons of human history.

  38. The PP, I answered you question about my beliefs out of courtesy. I’ll save the Paul discussion for a thread about that subject. As I said, my opinions about what should be in secular law have nothing to do with the Bible. I respect those with a different opinion of the Bible, you have that right.

    However, it is not the right of a majority to take freedom, liberty and equal protection under the law away from a minority without real cause, and the courts have said many times that a person’s religious beliefs does not allow them to deny rights to others.

    Show me any harm to others, harm to society, harm to the people involved in a gay marriage and we can have a discussion. I’ve been asking that question for over 20 years and no one has shown me anything excepted discredited and unscientific studies, myths or personal beliefs.

    Icky feelings do not count.

  39. writnstuff says:

    Here’s my prayer: God, save me from Christians.

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