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TAXES: Republicans must think we’re idiots

Letter by Steven R. Hammack, Eatonville on July 25, 2012 at 4:08 pm with 60 Comments »
July 25, 2012 4:08 pm

I’m trying to understand the Republicans when they say that the rich people need to pay less taxes so they can hire more employees. The income tax is on personnel income not company income. So how many people do private citizens actually hire?

If they were trying to cut taxes for the businesses that hire employees then I could see it, but not private citizens who don’t employ more then a few employees.

Republicans must think that most Americans are idiots if they believe we don’t see them as they really are: money hungry. I know this sounds kind of off the wall, but I’m not a writer so I just write what I think. I’m not a member of any party, and I don’t vote for just one party. I vote for the person, although I have voted less and less for Republicans.

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  1. davegrissom says:

    As a business person and employer for over 40 years, I can tell you that a tax cut will not cause me or any other employer to hire more people. The only reason to hire more employees is if the present number of employees can’t produce enough of the product or service I am able to sell. The market dictates how many people have jobs, not the tax rates.

  2. I am money hungry. It is a positive thing. I invest, making jobs. One day I will start my own business, to make a PROFIT, and will need employees.

    Someone with the time will explain to you why small businesses file taxes as they do.

    Last, the call is for stable rates and affordable govt.

  3. GHTaxPayer says:

    Obama and Dems are running a $1 Trillion + deficit for 4 years in a row.

    Only an idiot votes Democrat.

  4. As Dave just showed, BHOs temp giveaways do nothing but cost the taxpayer money.

    Another example of his failed understanding of business.

  5. The middle class pays zero federal taxes?

    My tax statement doesn’t net zero. I don’t know who you are trying to fool.

  6. truthbusterguy says:

    GHTaxPayer, bullseye

    How can you libs that post here keep forgetting that when the economy first started hitting the skids due to high gas prices, Frau Pelosi would not let the option to drill come to a vote before the congress?
    Also, the minimum wage was increased, which hurt entry level employment. Good lord! It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure it out.

    The bigger the government gets, the more it will suck out of the economy and restrict those people that do the hiring.

    BTW, I was against the Bush bailout. All that had to be done was to cut taxes and allow drilling. We would be booming right now. Instead, we have millions out of work. Record numbers of foodstamps, and the disability rolls hitting record numbers.

    And you guys defend obama.

  7. bobcat1a says:

    GH, if the upper class is so discriminated against, please explain why Romney paid 14% in federal taxes last year and I paid 22%. Please don’t suggest that Romney is an exception as the answer.

  8. bobcat1a says:

    GH, if cutting taxes and allowing drilling leads to Nirvana, why did we have a massive recession after 7 years of Bush?

  9. Capybara91 says:

    We are idiots. We have the politicians and economy to prove it.

  10. menopaws says:

    they have been promising job growth out of these tax cuts for how many years now?????? Saying it doesn’t make it a reality and the unemployment figures support that…..Keep telling the BIG LIE and you would think people would buy it–but where the wallet is involved–people look for results. And, those tax cuts have NOT produced results. Good letter……..Writer sees the obvious as do many of us.

  11. Rather than lower the top income tax brackets we need to increase they and return the capital gains tax to 28%.

    Then the rich will not be so greedy and more money will remain in the business to be used to grow the business, do r&d, etc.

    GHT – ‘top 20%’ – do you have a viable citation?

    Oh ‘middle and lower pay no federal taxes’

    Just as I thought – another right wing lie told by another one of the GOP’s idiot zombie base.

    FYI – Obama spends nothing not approved by the GOP dominated part time house.

    Based on the posting on this letter – the real idiots vote for Republicans.

  12. davegrissom says:

    GHtaxpayer, your statistics are misleading because they are based on taxable earnings, not gross income. In a year that I made 1.6 million dollars my taxable income was less than $20,000 so I received a child tax credit of $6,000 because I was “poor”. People like me do not need any further tax cuts. Middle class people need to net more money to help the economy recover.

  13. sumyungboi says:

    I think the republicans are going more for not _raising_ taxes at this point, and though I can’t speak for them, if you think that raising taxes won’t effect small business hiring, then yes, I think you’re an idiot.

  14. took14theteam says:

    Wow, someone famous is commenting here on the TNT blog.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Grissom

    http://www.linkedin.com/pub/dave-grissom/a/39/862

    LMOF

  15. GrandMaster says:

    So; GXTaxPayer, since I have paid a million dollars in taxes as a middle class member and YOU say I pay nothing do I now get a refund on that million dollars?

  16. LeePHill says:

    “CT7 says:
    July 25, 2012 at 4:53 pm I am money hungry. It is a positive thing. I invest, making jobs.”

    A fool and his money are soon parted.

    What makes jobs is a need for products and services.

    I’m glad to see that Took14 has a new paramour to be obsessed over. Isn’t there something rather creepy about someone looking up a person’s social media because they made a comment in a newspaper forum?

    ::::shudder::::::

  17. LeePHill says:

    Truthbuster and GH Tax are the two biggest foghorns on tax issues and neither of them have a clue as to how to be prudent in paying taxes.

    I hope they both have good accountants, unless they are filing short form…..

    “Record numbers of foodstamps”….duh….bad economy and jobs being sent overseas by….Mr. OutSource Himself……

  18. I don’t know about you liberals, but I’ve never been hired by a poor person. If you want to keep the unemployment rate rising, just increase the taxes on businesses. You want to raise the minimum wage, increase taxes but then whine when you have to pay 10 cents more for your latte. I know that kind of logic flies over the heads of liberals. I don’t know why I’m wasting my time.

  19. alindasue says:

    frosty,

    I was paid for a couple years to do childcare while a couple single mothers I knew went to work. They each definitely qualified as “a poor person”.

    Tax cuts for those in the upper 10% bracket do nothing to keep the price of my milk (I don’t do lattes) down, but raising the minimum wage to match inflation does keep more barristas employed because more people can afford their products.

  20. BC1, his money is invested. It pays a corporate tax. Then it (the same money) pay an income tax.

    Mitt pays millions.

  21. bobcat, either you’re an idiot or you’re being disingenuous by pretending not to know that Romney pays an effective tax rate of about 15% on Tax Advantaged Investment Income, which is his sole source of income. Even your average idiot who still possesses a modicum of honesty knows that investment income is taxed at a different rate than “ordinary income”.

    But if you geniuses get your wish, have fun explaining the reasoning to the millions of retired folks living on investment income. And you may want to re-think your own investment strategies – start finding tax shelters (again) in which to “park” your money (yeah, that’ll help the economy too, LMAO!).

  22. blakeshouse says:

    AAH!!!. The sheeple of the Soviet State of Wa. No wonder we are in the pits we find ourselves. Redistribution of wealth mentality the major promotion of the socialist-in-chief.

  23. took14theteam says:

    And there is Larry, constantly obsessing about me.

  24. GHtaxpayer, your statistics are misleading because they are based on taxable earnings, not gross income. In a year that I made 1.6 million dollars my taxable income was less than $20,000 so I received a child tax credit of $6,000 because I was “poor”.

    Oh please. And you’re accusing GHT of misleading? Obviously you’re conflating gross business income with personal income. Outside of outright tax fraud, there’s no way you have only 1.25% effective tax rate on 1.6M. The average ETR of families with taxable incomes of 40 to 50K is 3.2%.

    If indeed you did make 1.6M, either your overhead is unsustainable huge, or you would have had to invest an enormous percentage back into your company, or you simply left a huge chunk in the company to be taxed as corporate income. In any of the forgoing scenario’s, the bottom line is “money gone is money spent”.

    Oh, and I’ve owned and operated my own business for 30+ years. I’ve had gross sales in excess of 5M, and I utilize as many write-off’s and deductions as any other prudent business person has, or is allowed. I think you’re being substantially less than truthful about one or more aspects of your total tax picture here.

    And for anyone who’s been in business “for over 40 years” and is still showing only (“less than”) 20K in before-tax income; wouldn’t that be cause for immediate (if not timely) introspection? I mean… I think you can make more money flipping burgers.

    Oh, and shouldn’t your kid(s) be a bit old for the tax credit by now? I mean… 40 years in business? A generous starting age of 18 would make you 58 years old. When did you decide to start a family? (And you’re still making only 20K?)

    I’ve been on canary ships that smelled better than this fish story.

  25. LeePHill says:

    “frosty says:
    July 25, 2012 at 9:05 pm I don’t know about you liberals, but I’ve never been hired by a poor person.”

    Oh gaaaaaaaaawwwd….that old evergreen.

    A poor person is….well….POOR! Thus they are not capable of taking advantage of the market to make business.

    Now….have you ever been hired by a person that paid himself or herself just a little bit more than you? One that didn’t think 1200 times your salary was a reasonable salary?

  26. LeePHill says:

    If you had 54 employees that were paid $30,000, it would take $1.6 million to sustain that payroll. That that doesn’t account for the $20K left over for yourself or benefits and taxes….

    I wonder how much gross income it would take to sustain a crew of 20 workers in the heavy equipment business? (cost of office, lease on equipment, salaries, benefits)

    Not everyone pays himself first.

    Not everyone bankrupts businesses and pays himself millions.

  27. GHTaxPayer says:

    For those of you addicted to watching MSLSD :

    http://taxfoundation.org/blog/top-20-percent-households-pay-94-percent-income-taxes

    The bottom 40 – 45% pay ZERO federal taxes. The “middle class” pays around 10% of their income. the “1%” pay 21% of their income.

    Obama and Democrats lie. What else is new?

  28. gowenray says:

    And, while your arguments go on and on, we quietly hear the surpressed laughter of the tax attorneys and accountants in the wings, gleefuly rubbing their hands at the thought of more and more business.
    Folks, don’t you realize how many of your arguments disappear if a flat tax with no deductions were used?

  29. Flat tax and simplified tax code are the way to go.

    Hill, a small business exists to pay to small business owner. A small business is not a jobs programs (although they obviously employ folks). What a joke

  30. donaldtock says:

    Have a look at how an S-Corporation requires the pass-through of company profits to a persons personal income and you will understand the small business (any of which are S-Corps) owner’s income tax problem.

  31. davegrissom says:

    Clamat0, when I was in law school I paid real close attention in my tax law class. My income comes from tax free government bonds and real estate. Real estate has great deductions like depreciation, which is not a real cash expense. Plus you can make money in tax free “Starker” real estate exchanges. And FYI my youngest child was born when I was in my forties.

  32. SwordofPerseus says:

    GH-as long as you are slinging mud, to call you an idiot would be an insult to idiots. You are, as usual completely misinformed or a liar. The bottom half of Americans are too poor to pay taxes, moron. I believe that Canary is a group of islands in the Atlantic or small yellow bird. Business owner who cannot write English?

    Conc-careful what you wish for. What do you know of small business?

  33. Misunderestimated says:

    Anyone proposing to raise taxes on anyone without first addressing the insane spending by the US Government is by their very actions defining themselves as idiots.
    The US Government needs to bring spending under control.
    Borrowing $1.6 Trillion annually from the Chinese for our Federal spending is not sustainable.
    Watching cities celebrate Federal Grants to perpetuate their own unsustainable spending simply makes my head hurt.
    But don’t worry. The Economic problems in the US will eventually resolve themselves once the checks start bouncing.
    So sad we have only ourselves to blame in the end.

  34. SWoP answering for bobcat? Hmmmm.

    And a spelling/ typo flame too!

    Okay, bobcat… er, SWoP, let’s try cannEry.

    That better?

    BTW, I hear using multiple handles will not cure typos.

    Better be REALLY careful now.

    Oh, and last I hears, cannary was English… and a few other languages as well.

    Geeez.

  35. dave, appreciate your… manipulation of tax code. Still wondering how you only manage to parlay it to 20K.

  36. I paid close to 30% and Romney paid 15%. Sounds like we are redistributing my wealth, not his.

  37. menopaws says:

    The tax cuts have not made one dent in unemployment………Job growth is a MYTH. So, you can keep lying over something that has failed to PRODUCE the promised result…or you can come up with another solution to try. Republicans have an opportunity to create a new plan–or they can continue to push a plan that has FAILED……You can say it creates job growth all you want–but it HASN’T. Denying reality is neither smart nor prudent……..Now you can continue to sling arrows at each other……or you can recognize reality and come up with some NEW ideas to jumpstart this economy…..It is downright boring to continue arguing over this truly DEAD HORSE.

  38. I’ve paid people to do work for me that make more than me. Poor people need home and auto repairs, etc. So BS to the poor dont contribute to the economy.

  39. davegrissom says:

    Clamat0, the tax code is a complicated but beautiful thing for some people. General Electric paid zero tax on 14.2 billion dollars in earnings in 2010. That’s impressive, not right but impressive.

  40. LeePHill says:

    “CT7 says:
    July 26, 2012 at 7:36 am Flat tax and simplified tax code are the way to go.
    Hill, a small business exists to pay to small business owner”

    Here we go again. The inexperienced is going to try to tell the experienced…..LOL

    First….learn the definition of “small business”.

    Next – some small business owners have multiple businesses (guess who) – one making money and another not…the reasons are endless.

    Next – without the need of the market, there is no small business owner.

    Stick to boot camp. They don’t have you think.

  41. LeePHill says:

    dave – you are sharing knowledge with those that would rather remain ignorant

  42. LeePHill says:

    ” SWoP answering for bobcat? Hmmmm.”

    And if I commented on the same subject, that makes everyone me.

  43. dave – you are sharing knowledge with those that would rather remain ignorant

    No, no… I’d love to see how one parlays 1.6 Million dollars “made” into a paltry 20K before-tax income.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Besides, ignorance is your domaine name.

  44. What the writer does not seem to understand is that many small businesses are S Corps, LLCs, Sole Proprietors and the like. Those businesses pay taxes at a personal rate, not a corporate one. That is why taxing individuals more will affect hiring.

  45. soapdodger says:

    As a voting lifelong Democrat and small business owner of some ten years, I’m really having trouble with this issue. While I agree the super-rich should pay more, the President’s proposal of only raising taxes on those earning $250,000 or more will have a definite negative effect on my business. I think there needs to be a clear distinction made between personal and business income before I can get on board with his and our party’s plan, and I can guarantee that fellow Democratic business people with whom I frequently associate feel exactly the same way. The fact is these tax rates have been in effect for over ten years now. They aren’t “tax cuts” so much as they are “tax rates” to us. Say what you will, but changing them as proposed will amount to a tax increase on me. While I could never bring myself to vote for Romney, all of this rhetoric has me seriously considering sitting this one out.

  46. LeePHill says:

    http://www.slate.com/articles/business/small_business/2012/07/small_business_tax_myths_most_firms_are_not_affected_by_obama_tax_proposals_.html

    If you read the story, Soap, you’ll see that you are a victim of Republican story telling….or you are telling one….

  47. Sit it out, Soap. Tell all your friends to sit it out also.

    10+ years later they are RATES. 50% pay zero. Now that is inequality

  48. LeePHill says:

    “50% pay zero”

    50% don’t make enough to pay taxes.

    THAT is a wonderful case for the “Best Country in the World”

    Hey…CT7….how much did YOU pay in taxes? I’m betting that a guy, fresh out of the military, with a lot of time on his hands, is part of that 50%……

    You do alot of talking about other people…how about telling us about CT7 for a change?

  49. With no kids and as a renter, I pay “my fair share”.

    Honestly, I am one of the few people I know that qualify for only the standard deductions.

    I am penalized because I do not burden the system. Makes sense only in your world.

  50. LeePHill, yes, I’ve been hired by someone who paid themselves more than they paid me. How much you ask? Well, it’s none of my business how much money the business owner makes, as long as he is paying me what I think I deserve. I never went to work wondering how much my boss made. That’s the difference between a liberal and a conservative. Liberals concern themselves with other people’s business when they should be paying more attention to their own.

  51. aislander says:

    Speaking of taking people for idiots, it IS idiotic to state that 50% don’t pay taxes because they “don’t make enough money” to reach the threshold where taxation begins, and anybody who takes that assertion at its apparent face value is an idiot.

    All that means is that is the level that Congress has set and it is completely useless for the purpose of comparison with other times and other nations.

    Having said that, it is also true that the poverty rate has significantly increased under the failed “leadership” of Obama…

  52. AI- that is the “blame line”. Once you drop below it, responsibility goes out the window and it is Wall Street’s fault. You should know better. Those clowns that stay married, are professionals, wait until they are stable to have kids and live within their means, it is their fault! I’ll meet you at the medical pot dispensary an we can assign blame together.

    Larry, you available around noon? You are the expert.

  53. LeePHill says:

    Just something I tripped on…

    http://markcrispinmiller.com/2011/03/craiglist-ad-seeks-writers-to-post-right-wing-comments-to-social-media-news-outlets/

    You guys are giving away your services….or are you….LOL

    Frosty…..you might want to look up “public company”…you know…where they offer stocks and have to publish financial data to solicit investers. It IS everyone’s business….unless you wish to remain ignorant.

    CT7…I’ll be working…a real job….around noon. Try it sometime.

  54. LeePHill says:

    My compliments on dodging the question, 7.

    You can’t afford to buy a house, so you begrudge those who do. The childless part is probably a good idea….but don’t think you don’t burden the world.

  55. I “begrudge” homeowners? Why? Says who? I do begrudge those that live beyond their means.

    Lol, I can’t afford a house? Sorry cupcake, you fail again at finance 101. I move often, very often for work. While I could buy a house and rent it out, t-town is not the place (when I am done here I do not wish to return).

    And since you never served and would not know this, when a servicemember deploys they continue to get their housing allowance. Now, if you were renting, and you left for a year plus, the govt moves your stuff to storage for free yet you keep a nice chunk of tax free money.

    You clown.

  56. Just something I tripped on…

    Now we know how Larry got his “job”.

  57. MililaniJag says:

    Yes tax the rich and pay for 8 days of Obama’s Government. Obama’s SO smart!!

  58. MililaniJag says:

    Yes you’re idiots.

  59. What the writer does not seem to understand is that many small businesses are S Corps, LLCs, Sole Proprietors and the like. Those businesses pay taxes at a personal rate, not a corporate one. That is why taxing individuals more will affect hiring.

    What you don’t understand is that Income Tax is on NET income after expenses(like wages). If you really want to change tax code that has a negative impact upon job creation you should look at WA B&O taxes which are based upon GROSS income before expenses.

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