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MARRIAGE: Redefinition lowers the dignity of all humans

Letter by Matthew Ross, Tacoma on July 19, 2012 at 2:45 pm with 52 Comments »
July 19, 2012 2:46 pm

Re: “A vote in support of Referendum 74 affirms God’s creation of diversity” (Your Voice, 7-17).

In response to Barbara Gorzinski’s beliefs regarding the redefinition of marriage and human dignity, it is clearly pointless to appeal to the traditional teaching and catechism of the Catholic Church, of which she professes to be a devout member. Rather, a response must restrict itself solely to the question of whether or not the proposed redefinition of marriage would enhance human dignity.

Any discussion of human dignity must include the dignity of the child. Nature teaches us that the conception of the child involves both a woman and a man. And as the conception of the child involves a woman and a man, so the rearing of a child should involve both a woman and a man.

This natural truth is acknowledged by homosexual couples who raise children. One partner takes the role of the mother, and the other partner takes the role of the father. But to suggest that a woman can take the role of the father in place of a man, or to suggest that a man can take the role of the mother in place of a woman, is a direct assault on the dignity of both the man and the woman.

Both the mother and the father have a special, irreplaceable role in the rearing of a child. Any suggestion otherwise lowers the dignity of all humans, including the child.


Leave a comment Comments → 52
  1. For those that don’t believe there is a god, your argument means nothing.

  2. SandHills says:

    Matthew, while I am firmly on the side of upholding the definition of marriage as between one man and one woman, your attempt at lucidity on the issue escapes me.

    Besides adoption – which I believe your logic is based, do you know that gay couples are now having their own children via surrogates for gay men couples and In-vitro fertilization for gay women couples?

    But the one aspect of same-sex parents seems to me that either partner could play either role easier than a straight couple.

    So excuse me, what was your point again?

  3. charliebucket says:

    Matthew, ridiculous argument. on too many levels to even try to address the ignorance. wow.

    moving on.

  4. I would think that the extra effort necessary to produce or acquire a son or daughter would make that child very much wanted, more likely to be raised in a financially secure environment, and I believe the parents would be more emotionally mature

    Certainly, these benefits would over come any negatives that you believe would happen. Besides most of us have extended families that have female and male members that could also negate some of the negatives you are worried about.

  5. nwcolorist says:

    For those of us who believe the Bible to be truth, the essential difference between male and female is found at the spiritual level, as explained in the second chapter of Genesis.

    The two beings are fundamentally different, and no amount of role playing can bridge the gap.

  6. It’s fairly easy to see which of the commenters here were actually raised in a traditional home. You really have to feel a little pity for those who have no idea what a real mother and real father are.

  7. nickeygrl2002 says:

    100% agree frosty.

  8. The conception of a child requires a man and a woman. It doesn’t require a marriage, however.

  9. everybodiesmom says:

    I was raised in a traditional home, my children were raised in a traditional home, just want to put that out there for frosty. Matthew – your point about men and women not being able to fulfill the role of the other got me thinking. So in your opinion what about a single parent? Do they not have to play the role of both mother and father? What happens to their kids? What about children of the military? When one parent is serving overseas does the other parent not have to step up and be both a mother and a father? I suspect they do so and raise their child(ren) with just as much “dignity” as a heterosexual “couple”. I have also seen homosexual couples that are wonderful parents and have raised great kids. They have done so with much class and dignity and their children are in know way ashamed of their parents.

  10. Pecksbadboy says:

    Same old lame argument, who grants the marriage licence = NOT the church.

    You still have to go to the court house to get one there even if you get married in a church,so it has nothing to do with your traditional teaching.

    So you are saying God wants 50% of all children in the good ole USA to be raised in a divorced household since that is what your “Traditional Marriage” results in?

  11. charliebucket says:

    more ‘leave it to beaver’ ignorance and Bible thumping. I pity you all.

  12. CrazyJim says:

    I have gay friend who have raised children just fine and know straight couples who have really made a mess of things. Next!

  13. averageJose says:

    “Both the mother and the father have a special, irreplaceable role in the rearing of a child. Any suggestion otherwise lowers the dignity of all humans, including the child.”

    Yep. Nothing personal folks.

  14. surething says:

    The Bible is a work of fiction, real love is tangible and proven, regardless of sex.

    Another puke inducing LTE.

  15. bobcat1a says:

    So averageJose, when do you think you and your male AND female parent purists will be starting the initiative drive to ban divorce? You don’t support lowering the dignity of all those single parent kids, do you?

  16. sandblower says:

    Conception does not require actual physical contact between a man and a woman. The argument is baseless on that point alone if not all the other nonsense.

  17. averageJose says:

    Nice try at a diversion (rabbit hole).

  18. LeePHill says:

    “so the rearing of a child should involve both a woman and a man”

    Yeah…otherwise, the child may grow up to be President of the United States.

  19. LeePHill says:

    I just learned that my teenage grandson’s racist redneck conservative father just beat him about the head for mouthing off to his new wife.

    I’m sure glad that he’s not a homosexual….that would make him a bad parent.

  20. The letter writer must be very young or thinks that marriage is only for conceiving a child under his church-approved rules. Old people who cannot have children find dignity in marriage, too. People who cannot biologically conceive find dignity in marriage. Gay people find dignity in marriage.

    The letter writer must lead a very sad life encountering so many people who fall beneath his standards of dignity. Since there is no dignity in life without conceiving a child, I guess the writer’s next logical step is to have fertility tests become mandatory for any marriage. Maybe euthanizing those who cannot conceive so as not to have a “direct assault” on others should be considered.

  21. Sroldguy says:

    LeePHill says:
    “I just learned that my teenage grandson’s racist redneck conservative father just beat him about the head for mouthing off to his new wife.”

    Does that mean your racist redneck conservative son just beat your teenage grandson for mouthing off to his new wife?
    Like father, like son, like grandson?

  22. dlockner says:

    The civil and criminal courts are filled with examples of the so-called perfect unions between a man and a woman. In my own experience i have met same sex couples who were better educated, more creative, and more successful at being good, kind and nurturing parents than many of the heterosexuals who would claim otherwise. Especially those detractors who chose to believe in a non-existent sky daddy (which has anointed them as the chosen few). The nonsense of cognitive dissonance. There are good people, bad people and everything in between. It has nothing to do with their sex. The concept of worship for the Son on God was borrowed from Roman pagan worship of the sun to ease the Roman pagan transition to Christianity 300 years after the death of Jesus. It’s in the Book of Romans. The sun is our true creator and life giver. The bible is a fabrication and the church is a profit center. Why don’t you people study history and science instead of devoting your energies to making misery upon others?

  23. I can’t believe honest people still write these letters and progressives bash believers.

    The leftist will not change their mind. There is no respect or rights for those who believe in the Bible.

    If it bucks the system, the left will support it. It is less a matter of belief/emotion rather a desire to deny another’s belief.

    Yet somehow Hill and his ilk are ok with Islam, killing gays and women. He should be ignored but got a plug.

  24. dlockner says:

    I look forward to the day when the Tacoma News Tribune follows through and requires people use their true identities. I’m certain the level of insult and disrespect will recede and the level of thoughtful discourse and respect will rise.

  25. Of course….when one thinks of Dignity and the Catholic Church, DignityUSA, the gay Catholic organization, comes to mind.

    The Catechism of the Catholic Church says nothing about Dignity related to fulfilling socially defined gender roles.

  26. ct7 – Islam?!!???? Quite the non sequitur there. This letter is about the marriage law in WA – not the practices of Middle Eastern oil emirates supported by the US.

  27. Exactly how many gay couples did you interview before coming to the conclusion that one takes the role of the mother, and the other takes the role of the father?

    How absurd.

    Turn off Fox News, put your Bible down, and go do something constructive with your life.

  28. I think there are many children who would feel blessed to have two loving, caring, nuturing parents, regardless of whether it is two mothers or two fathers.

  29. mojjonation says:

    Heterosexual divorce rate hovers at about 50%. There are more grandparents rasing their grandchildren right now than ever before. I can almost guarantee that any same sex couple that wants a child will be better at parenting than those who pop out kids in hopes of milking the welfare system of whatever state they live in. The fact that people are focused on the actual definition of marriage, as opposed to fixing what is wrong with it, goes beyond words. You can’t see the forest for the trees.

  30. One thing is certain. The truth will never be accepted by a gaggle of the population who have succumbed to the notion that unequal means equal, or those who try to propagandize those who do know the difference in their futile attempt to force feed the idea that wrong is right.

    You have to feel sorry for them.

  31. …..and one thing is clear, and always expected in this subject. Those who try to make the argument that this lifestyle or the “marriages” included in this lifestyle are normal or equal, rely on their standard twists, turns, rationalizations, and justifications to make the impossible, possible.

    They remind me of someone flailing in quicksand. Reaching, struggling, but always sinking.

  32. XN – one of the same arguments used against Blacks. did work then, won;t work now.

  33. xring…thanks for proving my point…..lets divert and bring out the race issue to twist, turn and deviate from the topic. Haa! Sorry, it’ll never fly. Ya cant make an apple out of an orange.

  34. What used to be “normal” is that we lived in small, rural communities based in agrarian economies and stayed there all our lives (except for young women who left for their husband’s clan). Raising children used to be done by the extended family and extended clan.

    Times have changed.

  35. ThePrincipledPatriot says:

    Mojjonation says; “Heterosexual divorce rates hover at about 50%.”

    My friend that is a bogus statistic that has been debunked years ago! It is a classic homosexual apologist spurious talking point to down-play the important role that both a father and mother have in a child’s life. That marriage is nothing more than just writting on a piece of paper. Real, true divorce rates among heterosexuals hovers at about 20%.

    However, statistics in the Scandinavian countries where homosexual counterfeit “marriage” has been made legal/declared moral for sometime now, shows that marriage in general is now almost non-existent. Less than 20% now marry in those countries. That’s just great for the children in those countries, right?

    Statistics also show that the average homosexual “marriage” in those countries lasts just 1.6 years, with the average “married” homosexual having 6 sexual partners during that 1.6 years. That is non-comparable to heterosexual marriage statistics.

    Statistics also show that their and here in the U.S., that “committed,” “faithful,” “loving'” relationship has a vastly different meaning to homosexuals than it does to heterosexuals!

  36. TPP,

    Twist, shout and wave your arms all you want, but you are wrong.

    Centers for Disease Control and prevention report that in the US, in 2009 there were:

    6.8 marriages per 1,000 total population, and

    3.4 marriages per 1,000 total population.

    3.4 / 6/8 = 50% of marriages ended in divorce.


  37. TPP – anybody can make up a bunch of statistics. Cite your sources for that 20% hovercraft claim.

  38. Until TPP shws his lionks, I keep mine to myselof, but both of the statistics are fairly accurate.

    One is for marrages ending i divorce , approx 50% and the other is for people who get divorced. Many people are serial marriers and divorcers.

    The glaring twist of statistics in TPP’s claims is that marriage rates and divorce rates of same sex couiples almost exactly mirror the marriage and divorce rates of opposite-sex couples in countries where there is legal same-sex marrige.

    Citing a statistic about gay people without putting it into cultural context, or by comparing marriage and divorce rates in Sweden and marriage in the US as if they were the same is meaningless.

  39. dlockner says:

    When citing the divorce ratio one must take into consideration the time line. The ratio grows with the length of the union. The divorce rate rises as the marriage ages. After 10-12 years of marriage the ratio rises dramatically. When concluding a fixed ratio one must qualify that ratio by citing at what length those unions were at when dissolved. Another course would be to combine all marriages within a generational demographic and arrive at an average. An actuarial.

  40. Tuddo, I’m sure you accidentally forgot to mention Denmark, which has a much lower divorce rate for same sex marriage. Just picking the ripe plums only?

  41. Theo, the only study I found about Denmark was in 1997, 8 years after legalization. A recent estimate in an article that studied falling marriage rates in all of Scandinavia mentioned the “almost equal” rates of marriage and divorce. If you have a study showing a compariason of marriage and divorce rates specific to Denmark, I’m always up for reviewing it.

    My point was, of course, is that any comparison between what happens in Scandinavia and the US in such a cultural dependent issue such as marriage is faulty. It will take several decades for divorce rates to stabilize in states where same-sex marriage is legal. My bet is that they will mirror opposite-sex marriages f0or the same reason.

    Equality under the laws for divorce is just as much an issue as is marriage. Property rights, inheritance, and all of the other issues surrounding a marriage break up is as important to same-sex couples as opposite-sex.

  42. I think that if proponents of homosexual marriage and the lifestyle in general, should try to convince the rest of us the normalcy and equality of that lifestyle on the merits if any, of homosexuality instead of falling on the same old lame, tired spins on how “blacks were once treated as subhuman too, that didnt make it right did it”….Frankly I’d be willing to bet, that the black community is getting a little sick of having their entire race played in this hetro/homosexual battle.

    Go ahead, someone prove to the world that homosexuality is equal to, or accepted as normal in the eyes of the rest of the population, and prove it on its own merits. There has to be someone who can prove it , rather than a load of spin and diversion.

  43. XBJ98N – nope, the duty is for the opponents to demonstrate that marriage equality is damaging to the Republic. Equal protection under the law is a Constitutional right – you must demonstrate that the “danger” to the Republic requires this Constitutional principal has to be ignored in this case.

  44. principle

  45. averageJose says:

    Homo sexuals have the same right to marry one person of the opposite gender just as heterosexuals, transgenders, bisexuals, etc.

    If YOU were to apply YOUR OWN confused understanding of “equal protection” then YOU would support polygamy, incest, and several other wierd unions… no?

  46. averageJose, theSupreme Court said that argument was pure bunk when the good Christians of the state of Virginia used it to say blacks could marry blacks and whites could marry whites, so they were being treated equally under the law. Separate but equal has been shot down in many other legal situations, too.

    The Supreme Court said that a person has the right to choose the person to marry, not the state.

    Like beerBoy said, try a Constitutional reason for limiting a basic human right like marriage. What harm does same-sex marriage do to our nation or the people from which it is constituted? Restrictions on the types of marriages you mention and others, such as age restrictions, have been upheld because the courts have agreed with arguments that they cause harm.

    Get a good “harm” argument going, make sure it has been scientifically studied, tested and evaluated by peer groups and found to be valid, and maybe the courts will agree with you.

  47. aJ – there are more than a few state Supreme Courts who agree with my argument (rather – I agree with theirs). What are your legal credentials?

  48. penumbrage says:

    aJ – “Homo sexuals have the same right to marry one person of the opposite gender just as heterosexuals, transgenders, bisexuals, etc.”

    Millions of blameless intersex citizens would like to know, just what is the opposite gender of a hermaphrodite? Who should a person with a male brain and female genitals be allowed to marry?
    When your concept of equal rights only applies to some people and not to others, doesn’t that make it unequal rights?

    XBJ98N – “Ya cant make an apple out of an orange.”

    As far as our intersex citizens are concerned, a grapple is neither an apple nor a grape, no matter how many times you call them such or how hard you insist that they behave like something that they aren’t.

  49. averageJose says:

    LOL… let’s just put it to a vote already.

  50. vingrotto says:

    @ Frosty: “It’s fairly easy to see which of the commenters here were actually raised in a traditional home. You really have to feel a little pity for those who have no idea what a real mother and real father are.”

    Wow. What a stupid, unfounded comment. I was raised in “a traditional home” by a stay at home mother and working father. Married almost 60 years! I was raised to respect everyone, despite them being different from me. I am heterosexual and proud to have many homosexual friends that live “normal” and exceptional successful, loving lives. And guess what? My parents love my gay friends just as must as my straight ones. I hope you are not a parent…

  51. My 91 year old father and 90 year old mother are still married and still living together after 68 years of wedded bliss. My mother was a stay-at-home mom. We had a Leave it to Beaver/Father Knows Best upbringing.

    My parents are quite supportive of my brother and his 21 year marriage to his male spouse.

    frosty – it is better for you to not speculate about backgrounds.

  52. penumbrage says:

    aJ – You don’t seem to have a good handle on this whole answering questions/comparing viewpoints/exchanging information thing.
    As a result, I don’t know if you are just unaware of the fact that a couple percent of the population is born in a gender grey area other than completely male or female (comprising a substantial portion of our gay community), or if you have a basic disagreement with our government’s ongoing efforts over the last couple centuries to expand it’s legal freedoms, rights and protections to include ALL of our citizens as we identify inequalities in their treatment.
    A few minutes googling ‘intersex’ will cure the first problem, and if the second description applies (and you don’t mind condemning innocent people along with the lifestyle decisions of those icky gays of choice) there are several skinhead and KKK groups that share your views and are desperate for members.

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