Letters to the Editor

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ELECTION: Romney’s character in question

Letter by Robert Brown, Fircrest on July 13, 2012 at 11:23 am with 139 Comments »
July 13, 2012 3:03 pm

Given the information we have so far about the two major party candidates for president, it is pretty easy to assess the difference in character.

While there are some similarities – for example, both are devoted to their wives and families, both are people of faith and they both seem to be physically fit – there are shocking divergences from that point.

Mitt Romney has shown that he is willing to lie on many occasions; he changes course on a dime, his spokesman announced that it’s like an Etch A Sketch when resetting the campaign for the general election. The newest lie that I am aware of is that he claimed he was not at Bain Capital when outsourcing decisions were made.

The Boston Globe is reporting that he was the CEO and owner at least through 2001, when many of the most egregious cases happened. He has said in the campaign that he is against Obamacare, even though this law is patterned after Romneycare in Massachusetts, and he earlier suggested that it should be a model for national health care.

I use that as an example of course corrections, but there is another. He has completely flip-flopped on women’s rights issues. He stated he fully supported Roe v. Wade when running for governor of Massachusetts, and just eight years later he is fully against abortion and anything dealing with women’s freedom to choose.

Meanwhile President Obama speaks the truth, defends the poor and works for all Americans.

Leave a comment Comments → 139
  1. I still don’t want the Mitt flopper in the Oval office.

  2. As opposed to BHO the evolver or BHO the economic failure?

  3. This is who he is:

    ‘I’m not trying to return to Reagan-Bush.’
    ‘Ronald Reagan is… my hero.’

    ‘I think the minimum wage ought to keep pace with inflation.’
    ‘There’s no question raising the minimum wage excessively causes a loss of jobs.’

    ‘I respect and will protect a woman’s right to choose.’
    ‘I never really called myself pro-choice.’

    ‘I saw my father march with Martin Luther King.’
    ‘I did not see it with my own eyes.’

    ‘This is a completely airtight kennel mounted on the top of our car.’
    ‘They’re not happy that my dog loves fresh air.’

    ‘I’ve been a hunter pretty much all my life.’
    ‘I’m not a big game hunter… I’ve always been a rodent and rabbit hunter. Small varmints, if you will.’

    ‘Roe v. Wade has gone too far.’
    ‘I believe that since Roe v. Wade has been the law for 20 years we should sustain and support it.’

    ‘It was not my desire to go off and serve in Vietnam.’
    ‘I longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam and be representing our country there.’

    ‘I will work and fight for stem cell research.’
    ‘In the end, I became persuaded that the stem-cell debate was grounded in a false premise.’

    ‘I like mandates. The mandates work.’
    ‘I think it’s unconstitutional on the 10th Amendment front.’

  4. Fibonacci says:

    flip flop. flip flop, flip flop

  5. Fibonacci says:

    CT7
    Yes, by all means we need a vulture capitalist corporate raider as president. Maybe he can do for the country what he has done for companies. LIke, sell Alaska back to Russia and hawaii to Japan (or even better, China). He could lower the minimum wage, just like the workers in the companies got paid less after he bought them. He could move Fort Knox to Switzerland. He could eliminate ALL taxes on the top 1% while ending Social Security to pay for it. Yes, he is a wonderful choice for President.

  6. LeePHill says:

    CT7 – does Romney leap tall buildings in a single bound and rescue cats from trees?

    It appears that Mitt has either lied to the SEC or the FEC – both subject to felonious charges.

    Helping a friend find his wayward daughter won’t be much of a defense for a felony.

  7. LeePHill says:

    “As opposed to BHO the evolver or BHO the economic failure?”

    What is an “economic failure” in terms of the presidency? When previous presidents have doubled and tripled the debt and Obama has slowed it down to 50%….is THAT failure?

    I think someone likes to just make up terminology

  8. aislander says:

    The Washington Post has given the Bain timeline story three Pinocchios, calling it a minor flap about an unimportant SEC form.

    Should’ve gotten four…

  9. LeePHill says:

    “unimportant SEC form”

    If it’s “unimportant”, why have it?

    Says the Post – “Despite the furor, we did not see much new in the Globe article. We had examined many SEC documents related to Romney and Bain in January, and concluded that much of the language saying Romney was “sole stockholder, chairman of the board, chief executive officer, and president” was boilerplate that did not reveal whether he was actually managing Bain at the time. (For instance, there is no standard definition of a “chief executive,” securities law experts say, and there is no requirement for anyone to have any responsibilities even if they have that title.)

    I don’t know about anyone else, but after 40plus years in business, I don’t find “chief executive” one bit ambiguous and in fact if I were to tell the chief executive he was nothing but a flunkie, I’d find myself unemployed by day’s end.

    Now, on the other hand, the conservatives claim Glenn Kessler (WA Post) is guilty of liberal bias

    http://politifactbias.blogspot.com/2012/01/mark-hemingway-and-glenn-kessler-on-npr.html

    I guess they can pick and choose when he is right and when he isn’t.

  10. averageJose says:

    LOL, yes… BIG diff… Obama was the leader of the Choom gang, never created a single job, and was mentored by a racist, a terrorist, and a communist.

  11. averageJose says:

    evolve, evolve, evolve fib.

  12. Thank guys. Happy hour leads to other things, no time to argue with bitter old commie/hippies (moderators- they embrace those terms).

  13. alindasue says:

    CT7,

    I don’t think it’s so much that they embrace those terms so much as they just got tired of constantly telling you to get a dictionary and learn what those terms actually mean…

  14. LeePHill says:

    Well, let’s see…since we are talking about high school, we understand that Mitt was opting to go to barber school, then he avoided serving his country while claiming to be exercising his religious freedom (that others died for) while hiding in France…..

    He was mentored by religious leaders that discriminated against black people – as did the KKK…

    This is a fun game!!!

  15. LeePHill says:

    As I recall, Beavis and Butthead over used the term “hippie”, also

    “Happy hour leads to other things” – frequently DUIs and harm to others

  16. Alindasue, what terms? Can you explain?

    Thanks for the concern, Martinixxx. What a joke. Like BHOs (and your) service to the country. Glass houses.

    Oh, eating dog and Choom Gang.

  17. Fibonacci says:

    averageHose-ee
    evolve evolve evolve to what?

    CT7 Are you going to start talking about how much better you are because of your illustrious military history again? Yo hit down other veterans as if what they did doesn’t matter. What, did you win the Silver Star of Medal of Honor or something?

  18. charliebucket says:

    Lee it is finally starting to sink in, what you suggested about considering the source.

    There are 5 or 6 or so posters here who got nothing…but insults and blah blah blah liberal blah blah blah socialist…blah blah blah Obama. they also appear to have an alcoholic nature of their mindsets and attitudes. None for me thanks, tried reasoning with alcoholics all my life: been there, done that, got the T shirt and the scars to prove it.

    Is there an ‘ignore posts by this user’ button around here?

    why is it that those who know the least know it the loudest?

    (my apologies to any recovering alcoholics, no offense to you intended)

  19. “Choom gang”…..seriously….a high school group is what you are reduced to thinking is how you are going to finally demonize Obama enough so everyone hates him as much as you do?

    ::::::::::shaking his head::::::::::::

  20. averageJose says:

    Fib, you don’t remember that when Barry flip-flopped on homo sexual marriage his minions in the media claimed he “evolved”? You don’t remember that? Kooky.

  21. averageJose says:

    I don’t hate him, I just think he is ruining our great country with his failed policies. You don’t remember the hub-bub from the left about Bush’s escapades with alcohol in his early years? Kooky.

  22. averageJose says:

    ====chuckle followed by yawn====

  23. averageJose says:

    LMAO… out of the differences I mentioned you take exception to his drug use.

  24. philichi says:

    Ok the left’s demonization of Romney is working. Obama will win…. in Seattle, Queens NY, and Eugene Oregon.

    Look, we could say all the bad stuff we want about Romney. However, when it comes down to November, people will realize that he can read a balance sheet and income statement. They will be tired of of a community organizer learning on the job. They will look at the mess that Obama has made and say, “clean house”.

    In January we will have a conservative Senate and House, and a Nice happy Romney family in the White House. America will begin to grow again and bring the rest of the world with it. Now everyone relax.

  25. philichi – you really should take a look at how well the symbolic bills only republocongress is polling.

    Americans don’t like either side because neither side is getting the job done.

  26. Nice spin aJ – I just mentioned the most recent absurdity that you rightist keyboardists have been flinging out of your cages. I have, in the past responded to the other things.

    Tell me…how many jobs did Obama outsource when, as a highschooler, he was smoking pot?

  27. Ah, the debunked outsourcing (and I assume you mean sending jobs overseas) line.

    How many times do we have to show you that line is a lie? You should be better than that.

    For a guy who is not voting or going 3rd party, you sure spend a lot time attacking Romney and defending the failed policies of BHO.

  28. philichi says:

    My dear friends on the left. This silly out sourcing argument will be gone by November. So will all of these other fake issues. Remember “the war on women”.

    When the dust settles you will be stuck defending amateur hour in the White House. Almost every decision that Obama and his band of nitwits has made in the last 3 years has been wrong.

    Think about it. All they can pin on Romney is a school boy incident and a traveling dog story. They have a problem. Heck, the average baker or cook in our town, over years of services is bound to have some bad stuff in their history. The Left is finding that Romney is as honest as the day is long. They just don’t know anyone like that on their side. It freaks them out.

  29. hansgruber says:

    When previous presidents have doubled and tripled the debt and Obama has slowed it down to 50%….is THAT failure?

    Yet under his watch he has created 33% of the entire national debt? (Increased the national debt $5.345 Trillion in just 41 month)

    The only President ever to have borrowed over $1 Trillon dollars in a fiscal year and is working on 4 straight over Trillion dollar annual borrow. There is no slowing, only full speed ahead.

    Stop worring about how Romney spends his money and you should start worring about how Obama is spending your money!

  30. philichi says:

    Beerboy , you are right, the symbolic bills are a waist of time. Both sides are doing it.

    However, I sort of like small government. If they aren’t going to cut the budget and lower the deficit, I would rather that they all go home.

  31. LeePHill says:

    “philichi says:
    July 14, 2012 at 8:36 am My dear friends on the left. This silly out sourcing argument will be gone by November. So will all of these other fake issues. Remember “the war on women”.”

    Whistling in the dark, philichi. Conservative Virginia, the home of the ultra-conservative leader of the Republicans in the House, home of the vaginal probe for women……Romney AND Eric Cantor are failing miserably.

    The only people that haven’t taken the war on women seriously are misogynists who think you can deny everything away.

    Since you like “small government”, we’re sure that you don’t want to waste our time and money chasing a handful of illegal votes among millions, thus you oppose all this “voter fraud” nonsense….right?

  32. LeePHill says:

    “Yet under his watch he has created 33% of the entire national debt?”

    Which is a far cry from creating 100% or 200% of it…..

    Are the Republicans going to work with Obama to create a new revenue stream to help reduce the debt, or are they going to raise taxes on the middle class?

  33. Mitt v Obama

    High School – Mitt leads a gang that terrorizes a fellow student, Obama leads a gang that likes to smoke pot.

    Dogs – Mitt, as an adult, straps a dog on top of his car which precedes to crap all over itself, Obama eats dog as a child.

    Healthcare – Romneycare is the model for Obamacare.

  34. fanciladi says:

    “Meanwhile President Obama speaks the truth, defends the poor and works for all Americans.”

    Really? Really? Not really at all! Obama has shown his character as he lies to ‘we the people’! He is sneaky, racist and the only transparent thing about him is his record of untruthfulness! He has chosen like-minded people as he is for his Administration.

    How do I know??? I watch the news!

  35. OHS (Obama Hatred Syndrome) has claimed more victims, I see.

  36. hansgruber says:

    LeePHill

    July 14, 2012 at 9:26 am

    “Yet under his watch he has created 33% of the entire national debt?

    Which is a far cry from creating 100% or 200% of it…..”

    In 8 yrs Reagan added $1 Trillion
    In 8 yrs Clinton added $1.57 Trillion
    In 8 yrs Bush 43 added $4.889 Trillion
    In less than 4 yrs Obama added $5.245 Trillon
    And you say this is good?

    “Are the Republicans going to work with Obama to create a new revenue stream to help reduce the debt, or are they going to raise taxes on the middle class?”

    Create a new revenue? You mean tax. Government isn’t selling anything, they tax, the US Supreme Court upheld that on Obamacare.

    Say if for what it is, it’s a tax.

  37. charliebucket says:

    yes fancilady it is very clear who watches the “news”… the 24/7 anti Obama channel “news”. the result is a bunch of OHS crazy talk from a lot of people. (thanks to ehill for the acronym)

    and, will everyone who keeps saying they want small govt please stop using our roads, stop relying on the military, don’t send any children through public school, give back your medicare, stay out of our national parks, state parks etc etc etc…..all this small govt talk is empty rhetoric. a load of crap.

  38. Payments for goods that benefit ALL are different than payments to INDIVIDUALS.

    10% of stimulus went to infrastructure. So much for investing.

  39. philichi says:

    I don’t hate Obama. I think that he would be a fun guy to play golf with. I just don’t feel comfortable with him making policy decisions. Heck, he has no experience with anything. Even the books that he wrote didn’t cause him to read and research. They were about himself!

    Leephil, why do you care about the ID issue? I just left the post office. They required ID for me to pick up a package. I didn’t protest. I showed it.

    How do you know that the same guy isn’t voting with different names all over town?

    Why does the left care here? Do you all need voter fraud to win? I thought that people liked your policies?

  40. lylelaws says:

    LeePHill,

    In your Friday evening post when you pointed out that Mitt Romney somehow managed to avoid serving in the military, is that the same way that you, BeerBoy, and Bill Clinton also managed to avoid serving or is that just a special shame reserved for Republicans who did not serve?

  41. took14theteam says:

    philichi, how would a poor democrat or an old person be able to pick up a package then? We all know they don’t have any ID. Because if they did, they would be able to show it when they voted.

  42. charliebucket says:

    lyle, every vote is cross checked with registered voters. the whole argument asking what if a voter voted multiple times is like a silly Glenn Beck chalkboard conspiracy theory. About as sensible as me asking “what if pigs fly”? Sure someone could try it and may cast a whole bunch of ballots by some miracle of deception but the elections workers would throw out any that were duplicate or could not be matched up with a real person.

    I think you have been watching too much TV.

  43. CB, why question it when there is such an easy solution? You leftists are not making sense.

  44. charliebucket says:

    C7 your easy solution amounts to, basically, a poll tax or could make it an undue hardship for some to cast a ballot in our elections as more and more requirements are put in place. you must be really ignorant of American History and the amendments to the constitution.

    plus, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. what part are you not getting that there is no election fraud going on? anomalies (and there are always going to be a few) get sorted out under our current system…..our elections are not fraudulent no matter how many times you say you are scared they are.

    for all the crying about the economy why are republicans spending ANY time on fixing something that isn’t broken?

  45. charliebucket says:

    and please stop calling me a leftist, I am not. your constant overuse of that word renders your credibility a zero, BTW. I am simply being kind answering your question. if you start with insults (yet again), I will not reply anymore.

  46. Undue hardship? Ha! Do you have an ID? Was getting it undue?

  47. charliebucket says:

    it may have been a hardship if I was poor and/or did not drive. it may have been for other reasons I can’t relate to either (illness, disability etc).

    why are you so bent on fixing a system that isn’t broken?

  48. … please stop calling me a leftist… your constant overuse of that word renders your credibility a zero…

    You mean like your constant condescending references to FOX News, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, etc, etc, etc?

    If you not in the far left 25 percentile – which by any definition would make you a leftist – then you’re doing a pretty crappy job of selling yourself as a moderate/ centrist here, based on the content and positions taken in your posts.

    Perhaps one could be forgiven for the assumption that you are a leftist. Or maybe a bit of introspection on your part is in order. At least you could try being honest with yourself.

  49. took14theteam says:

    Thank you for that Clamat0.

    Reading the comments from CB where the basic theme is Republicans or conservatives are stupid and suck and they have no clue in life, but his comments are pure as the driven snow makes you wonder about his motive.

    Similar to that dude from Olympia.

    I think C bucket should join that “blog” from Olympia and leave this site. That way he would be able to comment amongst like minded leftists and he wouldn’t get his feelings hurt…

  50. charliebucket says:

    spoken like the two uber right wing brainwashed deflecting haters you are fellas.

    you are so clueless it is hysterical. you give conservatives and conservatism, the REAL kind, a bad name.

  51. took14theteam says:

    But you never addressed whether you are being honest with yourself. All you did was insult and attack others. Kind of goes counter to what you preach.

    Things that make you go Hmmm….

    ::::::Big hug for CB to make him feel better::::::

  52. fanciladi says:

    “all this small govt talk is empty rhetoric. a load of crap.”

    charliebucket…you really don’t know what some of the posters know. You don’t know who they are or who they know. There is much more to this administration than meets the eyes of the American people…and it’s scary!

  53. Clam- great post. Applies to many leftists in denial here.

    Begs the question, what are they in denial for? Embarrassed?

  54. When I think of a Democrat who is a moderate on this forum, I immediately think of alindasue. There are others, but the aptly-named charliebucket is just another notch on the left-of-bottom-25%-base democrat board – AKA leftist.

    Tell me, charlie, did 0bama show bad character by lying when he said the IM was not a tax?

    You could say that would be question #1 on the leftist-identification litmus test.

  55. Clamat0, was Romney lying when he said the IM was a penalty in Massachusetts? I don’t think either of them thought the Supreme Court would say the penalty is a tax, so I don’t think either of them were lying, just using the definition that legislators used in the law.

    I am not sure why that would have anything to do with character. Most lawyers in the US would have said that the Supreme Court would throw out the argument that the IM is a tax, so therefore it is constitutional.

    Character is saying something you believe, and it is obvious both men believed their statements.

    One can have character and be misinformed.

  56. charliebucket says:

    fancilady these posters don’t know one damn thing except what they hear from entertainers making a profit spreading political BS. please do yourself a favor and turn off the propaganda before you end up just like them…..the more they talk the more brainwashed they sound. just look at the froth every time they are challenged to do something other than insult “leftists”.

    when ya got nothing ya go nothing to lose I guess.

  57. averageJose says:

    Tell me bB, how many companies did Obama rescue while he was a communist organizer?

  58. averageJose says:

    Shucks… I meant community organizer.

    Too hard a question? nK

    How many leadership roles did Obama fill prior to his failed presidency?

  59. charliebucket says:

    took: saying the truth about right wing propaganda and those who believe it is not an insult, it is reality. statement of fact. as is stating that you (all) are ignorant of amendments etc.

    you are just one ugly person, how do you live with yourself?

    You are on the Merry Go Round named Denial. The whole lot of you.

  60. charliebucket says:

    I win, you lose. I got you fools so riled up it is laughable. All the insults and ganging up come flying like missiles as soon as you fools are beaten. By little old me.

    ROTFLMAO. Brainwashed lemmings.

  61. averageJose says:

    Tudds, was Obama lying when he said Obama care isn’t a tax???
    that people could keep their doctors and current insurance???
    that he would raise taxes “a single dime” on people making less than 250k???
    that he never heard racism while in the pews during Wright’s sermons??? that his fondest memories of family vacations were riding the bus and staying at the Howard Johnson???
    that he sat on his
    that his “heart swells with pride at the sight of our flag.”???
    that one of his earliest memories is of sitting on his grandfather’s shoulders proudly watching the Apollo astronauts return to Hawaii after their splashdown in the Pacific???
    …or when he said “How could America send men into space and still keep its black citizens in bondage?”

    These are just a few… the tip of the iceberg, so to speak.

  62. Yeah… we’re so “riled up” we had to post three out of the last five comments. Full of insults, no less.

    Your a real peach… bucket.

  63. took14theteam says:

    Remember C Bucket, when you point a finger at someone, you have 3 pointing back at you.

    I am surprised you didn’t know this.

    You truly are a self righteous piece of work.

    I am glad your excrement doesn’t stink.

  64. fanciladi says:

    CB…I watch the news…I also hear from his mouth what Obama says about his actions and how they will help the people then I also see the results of his actions and they never seem to be the same as what he said they would do for the people…they are completely opposite…they hurt and are hurting and will keep hurting the people!

    I did not vote for him…when he won, I hoped he would be what he said he’d be…those hopes were trashed very soon after his swearing in. I can recognize a lie when I hear and see it. I do not trust this man and his administration at all. He will surpass Carter as being the worst President in our times. Actually, I think he may have already passed him.

  65. tuddo, I think you’re smart enough to know the difference between law of the land and states rights.

    Not only is your defense of charlie spurious, but the fact is Romney never lied about the IM in Mass. And your understanding of Robert’s decision is completely ill-informed. He ruled 0bamacare constitutional on the basis that the IM is a tax – period. 0bama’s team argued before the court that it was… and then that it wasn’t. They have to be lying about one or the other – makes no difference.

    And 0bama himself has said repeatedly that it isn’t a tax, both before and after the decision. So… when it’s convenient, it’s a tax. When it’s not convenient (especially since the tax is the largest tax on the middle class in history, thus highlighting another 0bama lie – that he would not raise taxes on the middle class), it’s a penalty. Either way, he lied.

    I think that, along with too many other examples to name, speaks pretty clearly to his lack of character. This narcissistic egoist will do and/ or say anything to be re-elected.

    So… since you answered for charlie in the negative, you’ve affirmed what he won’t admit; charliebucket is a leftist. Hard-core one at that.

    You wear it well charles.

  66. Cb- you have riled up no one. It is BHOs failed admin, declining US power, a flatlined economy, and a bunch of excuses that have people riled up.

  67. Clamat0, please illuminate me why state’s rights has anything to do with Romney support and calling the mandate a penalty, not a tax, and that being legitimate, but Obama supporting the exact same thing, and that is somehow a character issue.

    I think yuou are smart enough to know that it is just part of the “I hate Obama even when he is instituting a right-wing think tank’s solution and saying the same thing as a Republican nominee for president.”

    You can call it a lie, if you want to, but it doesn’t make it a lie.

    Presenting two legal arguments is snot a lie. It is done all the time. I remember the state of Virginia presenting the argument that the Bible is our Constitutional basis and the Bible says that black people cannot intermingle with white people, wo therefore interracial marriage is unconstitutiional. They also presented the argument that state’s rights trumps the Constitution, since marriage wasn’t in it. Two different arguments.

    Luckily the Supreme Court didn’t accuse them of lying, just ruled they had defective arguments, like yours.

  68. averageJose, I don’t think you have suppported a single “lie” in your laundry list with any real facts.

    I could just as easily say, “don’t you think averageJose is lying every time he writes something stupid like he does?” Its hard to tell whether you are lying when you say you believe Obama is lying, because you form your opinions based on emotion and propaganda, not facts and evidence.

    Take, for example Reverend Wright. As an ordained minister, I was very interested in his theology after all of the controversy, so I read about six years of his sermons. Not a racist statement in them.

    If you think talking about slavery is racist, then maybe you need to look at real history. If you think talking about black pride and liberation theology is racist, then you need to look at the whole Southern strategy of denying blacks equal rights and churches being about the only place where blacks could feel free and express themselves (that is, unless their churches were burned down or their little girls massacred by white segregationists).

    If you have a shred of evidence that he doesn’t take pride in America and the flag, please present it.

  69. charliebucket says:

    fancilady every time you state that you watch the news you prove you are not thinking on your own. understand? the news is biased, understand? some news more biased than others, but all out to make a profit. got it? they will say whatever makes money, ok? they will conveniently stir the pot even if a story is not newsworthy to make a buck, ok?

    these people on this blog are brainwashed, comprehende?

    I beat them as soon as I state the truth about their news sources and they pull out the arsenal of insults cuz they got nothing but tired talking points. I don’t even have to take a political stand and I haven’t…..as long as I don’t say what they want to hear they attack. They know nothing about my views, noting about me, nothing but whatever schtick they internalized from the TV and radio. I am not a big Obama fan but they act like I think he is the second coming cuz otherwise they got less than nothing. They have to hate cuz that is what they know.

    you align with these low lifes at your own risk. do some research into the issues, don’t just believe or repeat what you hear on the news or what these bozos say.

    they are losers in the nth degree. beaten as easily as if I pushed over a feather. LOSERS.

  70. menopaws says:

    You know every time CT& talks about BHO’s “failed policies”, I have visions of politicians signing pledges of fealty to Grover Norquist, while they continue to shake the shrubs for those pesky, hidden WMD’s……..Tell us CT7, do you have medical memory issues??????Your defintion of “failed policies” doesn’t ever seem to include an unnecesary war or loyalty pledges to a man who has never and will NEVER be elected dog catcher……So, let’s talk failure again soon—go take a memory pill……..

  71. The OHS is getting worse. Seek help immediately.

  72. LeePHill wrote: What is an “economic failure” in terms of the presidency? When previous presidents have doubled and tripled the debt and Obama has slowed it down to 50%….is THAT failure?

    “After 40plus years in business” one might think that Lee has some comprehension of the principle of compounding. If Obama spends another 5+ trillion in his next term, Lee can easily claim that Obama slowed it down to less than 25%. I certanly hope that Lee was not in the banking business.

  73. Charlie likes to declare himself a winner. Congratulations Charlie on your winning streak. Charlie=winner Others=losers

    Sounds like another Charlie who was a winner.

  74. LeePHill says:

    “I certanly hope that Lee was not in the banking business.”

    Nope, Lee was in business that required real accounting, not funny accounting. I didn’t live off other people’s money.

    The rate of increase in the debt has slowed tremendously since Obama took over. Frankly, I don’t find the debt to be a president’s fault, but if it’s all going to be dumped on one, let’s play fair.

    What was the debt increase percentage during Reagan’s administration?

    How about GW Bush?

    How about Clinton’s eight years?

    Here – use the built in calculator:

    http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np

  75. LeePHill says:

    “averageJose says:
    July 14, 2012 at 9:09 pm Tell me bB, how many companies did Obama rescue while he was a communist organizer?”

    Bankrupting a company, eliminating employees pensions and jobs, then taking a handsome profit for yourself is “rescuing”??????????????

    It gets funnier as they blabber along….

  76. Hill, have you ever been to a Staples?

    I understand most of Mitt’s record is beyond your comprehension. It does not involve the govt picking the winner/loser.

  77. oldoc, you’ve noticed that the lefties, here, just love to play with things they have no business playing with (which is why they have no fingers left) – like, for instance… numbers.

    They use percentages when it fits their tenuous narrative. But ask them about spending as a percentage of GDP under this… president, and watch how fast they change the subject.

    As for Larry, he has many stories about his long and successful career parking cars for the 1%’s, but likely the only experience he has with accounting comes from his failed lemonade stand venture.

  78. Clamat0, and, as we wonder when the GDP dropped so fast that it took our breath away, we go back to Bush, the subject that Republicans don’t want to talk about. At least Obama has had the GDP climbing instead of falling rapidly like Bush.

    Your comment about percentages underscores your inability to understand what that means.

    History has shown us that our economy cannot slash a deficit and recover from a severe depression at the same time. Obama has taken a middle road, trying to moderate spending and slow down the huge jumps in deficit spending that Bush did without increasing taxes to any great extent. I don’t think, with Republicans in charge of the budget that he had any other choice.

    I think it is the wrong approach and would welcome a tax level about the same as Ronald Reagan championed, which would mean a big increase for the highest rate payers and a slight increase for those making over $200,000.

  79. BHO has been a moderate spender? You expect to be taken serious after that?

    No one is calling Bush economics the model. No one on the right, at least. This attempt to link every republican to the Bush economic years (even though dems own a good chunk of the subprime/housing mess) is weak.

  80. averageJose says:

    LOL Tudds. I asked IF he was lying when he made those statements… granted, it was largely rhetorical.

    As to Wright. He’s pals with Farrakhan… ’nuff said. If the same standard of “racism” is applied to those 2 that is routinely applied to everyone else, you shouldn’t have any problem spotting it from them.

    Those racists from the south??? Democrats. (westboro church’s Fred Phelps is a great modern day example. You should google him)

    How did you construe I alledge “he doesn’t take pride in America and the flag”? (fyi, his wife DID say “all this over a damned flag”)
    Now, if I did alledge he was anti-American I would cite some of his policies.

    As to his lies… is he lying here???
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL7ak__MGyw&feature=player_embedded

    Besides all the lies in his 2 books and his campaign speeches, what about his lie about closing GITMO?

    How about the lie about his Grandpa being a goat herder? LMAO…
    .
    Obama “I am the only candidate who isn’t taking a dime from Washington lobbyist?”

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-04-15-obama_N.htm
    .

    The list goes on, and on, and on.

  81. averageJose says:

    “when the GDP dropped so fast that it took our breath away, we go back to Bush” … and both houses ruled be democrats. ;)

  82. LeePHill says:

    “CT7 says:
    July 15, 2012 at 8:36 am Hill, have you ever been to a Staples?”

    Sure have. The minimum wage flunkies can barely tell me where in the store to find what I want, much less which brand is best and it’s fuction. They are uneducated about their product line, but know how to put it on the shelf and break down the cardboard boxes.

    Staples, Office Max and Depot have replaced the family owned stationary and office supply stores that used to provide middle class wages to heads of families that learned their craft and provided excellent service.

    Thank you, Mr. Romeny, for improving life in the US.

    Oh and….

    “how many companies did Obama rescue while he was a communist organizer?”

    How many terrorists has Romney been responsible for the capture?

  83. LeePHill says:

    We have an unemployed, stay-at-home spouse critiqueing the career experience of a 40 year business professional.

    Yeah, sounds about right for Conservativeland.

  84. aj, more importantly is the notion that tuddo seems to espouse, whereby when you ain’t got it (doesn’t matter why, tuds), all the better reason to spend more!

    Seems odd; what we have here are lefties who won’t admit it, and Keynesians who don’t realize it.

  85. So the mom and pop shop did not have a minimum wage stock boy? A child working the register for nothing? Higher prices? Does Staples have management that get paid a ‘living wage’? Do those min wage jobs provide a first job or second income?

    You would rather have them on the teat…

  86. Clamat0, if you look at history, and we have many severe recessions and a few severe depressions to look at, when there is a problem with deficit and a severe depression, you attack the depression first, get the economy back on track and then you work on the deficit.

    The Republican constant lowering of taxes to a level undreamed of just a few decades ago, spending like there was no tomorrow and not claiming that spending in the budget, effectively lieing to the American public during the Bush years, and clamoring for even more reductions in taxes has led us into severe deficit and a depression at the same time.

    Laying off huge numbers of government workers at the local, state and federal level by reductions in infrastructure, police and fire protection and teachers in order to keep taxes low for the rich stymies any hoped-for recovery. With fewer and fewer people having any disposable income, the economy sufferes.

    Republicans treat the economy with lower taxes and laying off government workers like they are the magic cure. It doesn’t work, it has never worked and will not work in this economy. FDR even tried the Republican approach after getting criticism from conservatives in his own party, and it made the economy worse, so he changed his tune and started implementing real cures.

    Romney has no other plan except to lower taxes, lay off government workers, take away basic support services for elderly, people with disabilities and the poorest among us.

    That will make our economy much worse, just like all Republican administrations have done during severe recessions and depressions because their ideology gets in the way of what is happening in the real world.

  87. aislander says:

    tuddo earns some Pinocchios of his own.

    If you are talking about Federal taxes, the return is always around 15 to 20 percent of GDP, but has been lower over the last four years due to the Obama economy.

    If you are talking about the percentage of taxes paid by the “rich,” it has never been higher than it has been over the last ten years.

    If you are talking about the “progressivity” of our tax system, we have the most progressive system of any major industrialized nation.

    So what ARE you talking about, tuds?

  88. aislander, keep spouting rhetorical nonsense. If it works for you, then go for it.

    When the middle class gets decimated, as under Reagonomics, then there is less income, and so fewer taxes. When the wealth gets concentrated at levels only seen briefly during the “gilded age” of tha late 1800’s, then yes, the wealthy pay more of the percentage of the total taxes.

    Keep voting for those lower taxes for the wealthy, keep trying to trickle down, and keep diminishing the middle class’s total tax responsibility because the middle class itself is diminishing. If that’s the kind of America you want to live in, vote Republican.

  89. aislander, Cole and Ohanian have been severely chastised for their phony numbers in that article in order to try to refute the demand-side economics that worked instead of the supply-side economics that moved the country further into depression. Fox Newss is the only one that still cites it, knowing that none of their audience will look up the real information. I suppose that’s where you obtained this laughable essay.

    They are playing two jokers:

    (1) They define “before Roosevelt” as the average of 1930-32 rather than as 1932.

    (2) They assume that all of the declines in hours of work per week is due to deficient demand rather than to a much-desired increase in the bargaining power of workers who then choose to bargain for more leisure.

    If their theory about people working fewer hours meant a worse economy, then the 1950’s wpould have been a disaster, with about 1/3 fewer hours worked than during pre-war Roosevelt era they discussed, and that is about all they can hang their hat on.

    Here are some real economic studies that use real data. The numbers your article “assumes” weren’t even pubklished or available, so making up some “assumptions” to fill in the gaps always gets peiople into trouble.

    http://www.econ.fudan.edu.cn/userfiles/file/20110225103844234.pdf

  90. aislander says:

    We know that the Great Depression was the longest-lasting economic contraction in American History, and it was the first one in which the government tried its hand at “mitigation” using idiotic semi-Keynesian manipulation of the economy.

    We know that the current malaise is the second-longest-lasting period of stagnation, despite the heaps of debt that have been accrued.

    We know that the history books are written by the left, and I am not falling into the trap of arguing about what history is factual and which is revisionist. That is a rabbit hole that lefties love going down.

    I do know this for a fact: leftist policies punish productive behavior and reward dependency, and those policies result in less of the former and more of the latter.

    If we want a prosperous economy–and I have strong reasons to believe that most lefties don’t want that–we need to allow people to reap the rewards of risk-taking, innovation, and hard work, and that will never happen under Democrat rule…

  91. Tuds, look at #8

    http://news.investors.com/article/617140/201207060851/10-reasons-jobs-market-worse-than-june-report.htm

    I challenge you to actually read this article. You will end you rhetoric on reaganomics and trickle down.
    http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/07/m-the_trickle-down_hoax.html

  92. More for you-

    http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/data-in-new-world-bank-report-shows-that-large-public-sectors-reduce-economic-growth/

    I expect “Cato” to scare you off. Endstate is larger the govt (as % of GDP), the slower the growth. You can find proof of that all over the web (most are very boring Fed products if you are no into economics).

  93. CT7, just shows that what we are doing, using trickle down, low tax methods isn’t working. Why do Republicans insist we do more of the same? Obama hasn’t been able to implement a counter policy.

    One, he is timid and knows the rhetoric has America believing that our economy is bad because a few people are lazy and just refuse to work and that wages are too high for everyone except the top executives and financial workers.

    He knows the Republicans have America believing that just a few more tax cuts and we’ll be fine. Americans believe maybe this time trickle down will work, because the Christians are for it and those atheist liberals are just commies.

    Two, Republicans are doing everything in their power to bring America to its knees by blocking any real attempts at economic reform, striking fear and making sure consumers have no confidence in the economy. They are the biggest anti-America group we have, and Romney, the most “look out for number one, even if it destroys America” is their new spokesperson.

  94. Since you were too scared to read the articles, please find me an economic text that shows Reagan and today’s republican party believe in ‘trickle down’ economics.

    You can’t, but I eagerly await whatever non-economist stuff you can drag up.

    But the lefts favorite economist, Krugman writes a book with no footnotes. How is that even possible? You kids are lost, banking on emotion and not reason. Time to bring an adult in to fix this mess.

  95. btw, if you think that American Thinker article rebuts the concerns and the facts that show trickle down has never worked, then I know why you say some of the nonsense that you do. It lacks any critical thinking, facts, real arguments or even any cohesive points.

    He repeats some of the arguments against trickle down ion simplistic fashon and then says “look at this isn’t it funny”. Its like cheering for the home team when they are down 9-0. Switching sides wouldn’t be part of “believing’ would it?

  96. aislander says:

    So…what is the mechanism by which high taxes spur economic growth, knowing as we do that the bulk of such taxes must fall on the middle class?

    Remember, going back to Clinton-era tax rates will raise only a projected $70 billion per year from the “rich” (those making over $200K), but a projected $400 billion from those making less.

    Obama himself said two years ago that it was deleterious to the economy to raise taxes in a recession. What has changed?

  97. fanciladi says:

    CB…just where do you get your info??? If your info is so much better and the ‘truth’…where is this source???

  98. The other aspect is raising INCOME taxes on high earners does nothing to those already rich (those with a wealth of BHO or higher). It only punishes those trying to get rich.

  99. aislander, you ask ridiculous quesitons and make stupendously wrong assumptions. High taxes and increases in government workers are not what anyone is talking about. Sufficient revenue and stable levels of government employment, the first to pay for investment in infrastructure, allowing governments at all levels to hire private contractors and the second to moderate the increases in unemployment rate are what is needed.

    Your last comment about income taxes for the wealthiest has a small bit of truth, although many people in the top 10% earn CEO slaraies and earned income, not just investments. Inheritance taxes, lowest in over 100 years, and for some the lowest ever, do not need to be severely reduced, as Romney is proposing, and capital gains taxes, which are at an all time low need some slight increases.

    There is no need in America to create oligarchical families.

    Until a comprehensive reform can be accomplished on all of the deductions for the highest earners stuck on for various interest groups over the last 20 years, a few small tweaks will have to do.

    Corporate taxes also need reformed to tax real earnings for all companies at a lower level than about 1/3 pay now and a higher level than about 1/3 pay now because of unneeded incentives. There are many old deductions and write-offs for some industries that do not need government running interference for them.

  100. aislander says:

    I’m completely in favor of comprehensive tax reform, but that is not in the conversation right now, at least not on the Democrat side. ALL special deals should go away.

    If you’re not talking about higher taxes, why do always come down in favor of higher taxes? Inquiring minds want to know…

  101. menopaws says:

    Look, I CANNOT vote for a man who attended a private fundraiser given for him by Dick cheney. Just thinking about who all those “private” donors might be makes my skin crawl. You are judged by the company you keep……First, that whack job Trump and now Mr. Cheney and his “Halliburton”crowd. What kind of deals did he have to cut to get those checks????Sorry—you sleep with dogs, you get fleas……Mr. Romney is truly an empty suit–and the big boys plan on keeping him on a VERY short leash. We need to pay attention to the kind of donors he is getting…..and Cheney brings nothing but real trouble to the table.

  102. The company they keep! Lol!

    Someone has her head in the sand.

  103. aislander says:

    If you can’t beat ‘em, demonize ‘em, huh, meno?

  104. aislander says:

    Idioms & Phrases

    empty suit

    An unimportant person; also, a phony. For example, Don’t pay any attention to him he’s just an empty suit , or She acts as though she knows what she’s doing, but she’s really an empty suit . This graphic expression calls up the image of an empty suit of clothes. [c. 1970]

    Sounds like a description of Obama to me.

    Mitt has a solid record of accomplishment in every field he has entered…

  105. Empty suit: someone who inherits great wealth and family connections, uses other people’s money and ruins other people’s lives in order to extract selfish gains and does not care enough for the country he is running to lead to even invest in its future.

    aislander, I was objecting to your use of the term “high taxes”. I guess any taxes higher than the ones we have now, the lowest in over half a century and far lower than when we did have “high taxes,” would be high to those who do not want to invest in Ameria’s future, like Republicans.

  106. Invest in its future? In one year Mitt will pay more in taxes then you will in your entire life. In one year he donates more to charity then BHO has his entire life.

    He was born into money. I wish I was and hope my children are. I do not turn my jealousy into hate and blame, but motivation.

    His business record was excellent. It took brains, skill, and hard work. How hard was it to be a community organizer or no show senator?

  107. America’s future are the citizen and the Constitution, supported by a strong defense structure. Not a failed system of socialist benefits.

  108. aislander says:

    “…lowest [taxes] in half a century…”

    More truthiness from the left side of the bell curve…

    Tax receipts are low as a percentage of GDP due to the Obama economy, NOT tax policy.

    SHEESH!

  109. aislander says:

    And you DO know, don’t you, that all that “vulture capital” crap has been thoroughly examined and debunked…

  110. aislander says:

    How many times does tuddo need to be shown the truth of something before he quits lying? Mitt did not “inherit great wealth.” Rather he received a modest inheritance (typical of the middle class), which he used to further his education…

  111. aislander, if you think tax rates (not just receipts) are high now in comparison to history, you certainly are not the one to ask for any facts.

    Here are the facts from the Tax Foundation:

    – Today’s income tax rates are strikingly low relative to the rates of the past century, especially for rich people. For most of the century, including some boom times, top-bracket income tax rates were much higher than they are today. (we’re about at the 1928 rate).

    – Super-high tax rates on rich people do not hurt the economy. During the 1950s and early 1960s, the top bracket income tax rate was over 90%–and the economy, middle-class, and stock market boomed.

    – Super-low tax rates on rich people also appear to be correlated with unsustainable highs in the economy–brief, enjoyable booms followed by protracted busts. They also appear to be correlated with very high income disparity.

    And the reform in corporate and other taxes needs to come soon. For example, Murdoch’s News Corp , which after generating $10.4 billion in profits over the past 4 years, and which would have been expected to pay the IRS $3.6 billion at the statutory corporate tax rate, instead received $4.6 billion back from Uncle Sam.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/over-past-4-years-news-corp-generated-104-billion-profits-and-received-48-billion-taxes-irs

  112. LeePHill says:

    “In one year Mitt will pay more in taxes then you will in your entire life. In one year he donates more to charity then BHO has his entire life.”

    I’d like to see the proof of that. Oh wait…Romney doesn’t share tax returns….

    Aislander….at least read the wiki on Romney (probably created by his handlers) before embarrassing yourself with such comments….

  113. LeePHill says:

    “(typical of the middle class)”

    The middle class attended Cranbrook???????????????????

  114. aislander, Romney said he donated a portion of his inheritance as a memorial to his father to Brigham Young, which has acknowledged the endowment was over $1 million. That’s modest?

    The median inheritance reported by AARP is $49,000, and only 19% of the population ever receives an inheritance, so your statement that Romney’s was typical of the middle class is plainly ludicrous.

  115. bobarita0451 says:

    If Obama was a leader and and has any intigrity then he would run on his record and not resort to character assissination in any feeble attempt to promote his “class warfare” agenda. He has done this now for 3 years and it’s getting old. It’s time to stop pointing the finger at the opposiion of his policies and accept the fact that America is not buying it. We are $17 trillion in debt, massive government spending is not producing the results and we are all on the hook for this failure of “blind ambition” style of leadership. He campaigned on “hope and change……….maybe we shoud “hope” to “change” the direction of this country. Just a thought.

    How’s that “hope and change” working for everybody? Not very well from direction of our situation.

  116. charliebucket says:

    fancilady….I get my info directly from a person’s words an actions and from things like watching our govt in action, actual research of issue and REAL conversations with people who may have info I could learn from….not from partisan TV networks. I do not watch ANY TV news (except my local 10pm news for the local stories weather and sports.) NONE. (nope, not PBS, not MSNBC (garbage) either)

    My point is and will continue to be that EVERYTHING the right wing says about Obama the last 4 years is simply parroted nonsense from ultra biased media sources and the republican party spin masters whose sole goal is to get back in power. They lose me every time they start shouting socialist, communist, leftist, terrorist ad nauseum. There is no credibility for these folks, none whatsoever. They have no argument except hyped up ugly labels and BS. ( I am not a big Obama fan, he has not done what I wanted him to do or lived up to my expectations)

    I have never had any difficulty having meaningful, civil conversations with REAL conservatives. I am conservative in some ways, liberal in others. I am fair minded and open minded. I have conservative friends and liberal friends. I have conservative family and liberal family and we all can talk about any topic and get along wonderfully. It is just the right wing jerks, like those on here, that are so obvious in their hatred of anyone not like them, who are so one sided and brainwashed that ruin every blog and show that they are not thinking, not wanting to discuss ideas with others…just hate on people and react to “news”. The sky is always falling for them and the anger and powerlessness against whatever it is that they hate and their fear (of liberals) are just oozing. I don’t even try to reason with them, I just make my statements, point out their propaganda, give my 2 cents on a topic etc…. which always results in the personal insults at me to start flying because they want to have an enemy to conquer. LIFE IS TOO SHORT.

    Now, you seem capable of civil conversation and I bet we have some like minded values and political viewpoints and some very very different values and political viewpoints. It is too bad we can’t discuss them here because the assholes ALWAYS jump in with their insults and hyped up ‘Obama is the end of America, you’re a leftist kool aid drinker BS’.

    Please….civil discussion is not possible in that atmosphere. So I just tell them like it is (they sound like a bunch of sophomoric brain washed jerks aping hyped up partisan rhetoric with no basis in reality) and they hate me for it. And I won’t just always stand still like a punching bag when they start with their very personal name calling and insults at my person, I punch back. And they hate to have their crap challenged cuz then they are exposed for who are they are: Haters.

    It is too bad this blog does not have a private message feature (to my knowledge) where civil people could actually go to have REAL conversations or to share links or info that might trigger REAL conversations…..

    take care.

  117. CT7,
    To evolve is to develop and grow gradually overtime.

    I would rather have One Who Evolves in the White House rather than One Who Seeks the Past.

    There are many ways to serve one’s country. All are honorable, and none deserve to be demined just because they are not the same way you and I followed.

    Ajo,
    Do you still view women and girls the same way you did in the first grade?
    Probable not, which makes you an EVOLVER.

    Obama supported equality for same sex couples in 2008, pushed for federal benefits for same sex couples, and lead the fight to get Don’t Ask Don’t Tell repealed.

    A true flip-flop would have been to deny any or all of this positions that Obama had defended many times and in many ways.
    IMO – the people who are really destroying our county are the same ones who oppose Obama and his pro-people policies.

    Pchi,
    No need to demonize Romney – telling the truth works so much easier and even more effective.

    Name one Democratic sponsored Symbolic Bill.

    The only thing worse than a Government that is to large is one that is too small.

    Little Hans,
    No President creates Debt. Congress controls taxes and spending, therefore Congress and Congress alone must be held responsible for our fiscal crises.

    Obama inherited over $5 trillion in debt by moving Bush War Funding from the non-public Special budget to the Public Budget where it belongs.
    As for the rest of the debt – blame Congress –THEY, not Obama, control fiscal matters.

    CT7,
    You are falsely implying that the other 90% was wasted by going to Wall Street, Banks, Credit Instructions, and the Auto Industry?

    Except for the Auto Loans, the stimulus/bail out money would have been better spent if it had gone to main streeters.

    Fanciladi,
    Speaking of smoking dope: What are you using while you watch Fox News?

  118. SwordofPerseus says:

    Sorry CT7 you have no moral high ground upon which to stand and fling poo at others for you are as guilty as anyone of personal attacks and name calling. I note that you have never been middle of the road politically speaking. C-bucket at least brings dispassionate facts to the discussion. You often refer to known right wing web sites to back up your talking point. Try http://factcheck.org/ next time if you want a reliable unbiased source.

    Where in the political spectrum do you see yourself CT7? To me you seem just to the right of Hitler or about equal.

    As far as how the right is fixated on dehumanizing and marginalizing progressive politics, progressiveness is the only thing that has ever done any real advancement of civil rights and freedoms in this country. I know you will choke up a bone when you read this, however that just illustrates how effective the right wing propaganda has been to swing this country back into the pre-depression era ideas of government. Sad but I fear that people like CT7 and ‘slander will help to usher in a new era of laissez faire politics and monopoly capitalism. Oh wait it’s already a done deal…

  119. aislander says:

    I said nothing about tax rates, tuds, since they are largely unrelated to revenues. I wrote about revenues as a percentage of GDP, which is what all the left-side-of-the-bell-curve hissy is all about when they squeak about lowest taxes e-v-e-r.

    I stand by my opinion of Romney’s inheritance, since he gave the bulk of it away and kept enough for his education (where, by the way, he performed brilliantly. You guys said you want a smart President, right?). He lived on funds typical of those available to the offspring of an upper-middle-class family.

    And LeePHill: Worry about you and not me, since every one of your posts SHOULD be embarrassing to you.

  120. The “middle” class is a misused/abused term that is relatively meaningless these days. the median income is $49K. Obama is a 1 percenter. Romney is a 0.1 percenter. Anyone earning $250K per year is a 2 percenter.

  121. aislander, of course I know you will stand by your opinions. Facts mean nothing to the far right and never will. “I hate Obama, even when he is instituting conservative policies” is the only song you know, but the verses are getting tedious.

  122. hansgruber says:

    Xring sez:
    “Little Hans,
    No President creates Debt. Congress controls taxes and spending, therefore Congress and Congress alone must be held responsible for our fiscal crises.

    Obama inherited over $5 trillion in debt by moving Bush War Funding from the non-public Special budget to the Public Budget where it belongs.
    As for the rest of the debt – blame Congress –THEY, not Obama, control fiscal matters.”

    So if no president creates debt and congress does and should be held accountable for the debt, then why are you not holding Obama accountable for the debt when he was the US Senator form Illinois prior to becoming President since he voted for all the Bush Budgets including all the war budgets?

    And since no president creates debt, how then can the president move “Bush War Funding from the non-public Special budget (funny, couldn’t find anything on this topic but the Iraq & A’stan wars were budgeted thru supplemental budgets which is included at the end of the fiscal year added to the debt) to the public budget where it belongs (and it has always been there).

    So you if I follow your logic, I can blame Obama, Biden, H. Clinton and the other congressmen for Bush’s contribution to national debt and not Bush? Remember, these 3 along with their cohorts voted for all the Bush budgets and supplemental war budgets during their time in Congress.

  123. SOP, unlike others on this thread, I do not deny that I am a social and fiscal conservative, with fiscal taking precedence. I am not religious and see the connections of the republican party and evangelist Christians as negative.

    There. Happy? Why hide it when people’s post tell the story anyway.

  124. Back to the topic of this letter:

    Romney keeps saying he has one big factor going for him – job creation, so the press is legitimately studying his assertions. Romney touts all the policies he put into place as governor and lauds his own perfomance in job creation in Massachusetts. However, a 2008 study at Northwestern showed Massachusetts was 47th out of 50 states in job creation during Romney’s governorship and well below the US average on every economic indicator.

    Romney could show records that prove he did not meet with the board of directors at Bain during 1999-2002 like he is now claiming, but did claim when he told a Massachusetts audience that he visited that state frequently for Bain board meetings to prove he was a resident. He could explain how he received in excess of $100,000 per year salary during that time for activities and services he provided for Bain, but for which he now claims he did nothing to receive.

    I think he would be damned if he did and damned if he doesn’t, because one way or another he is lying, either then or now.

    And, of course there’s the performance before the NAACP. Insulting your audience is not the way to show character. Adding in your speech the next night a low blow about “free stuff” is disgusting.

    Romney hasn’t even learned to use his surrogate PACs for the really nasty stuff but is still trying to pander to the racists of the South and the Tea Party elitists.

  125. Being honest is insulting? You would rather have him lie? Most of America still hates Obamacare.

    Incredible that you prefer a politician that lies and spins based on the audience he is speaking to. BHO really is your guy.

  126. Hans,
    To blame Obama for creating debt when he was a Senator one would need to know how he voted on budget and spending bills.

    To hold Obama accountable for creating debt when he was a Senator one would need to be able to vote against Obama the next time he ran for Senate.

    Fact check:
    We invaded Iraq in 2003, Obama was elected to US Senate in 2004, therefore in did not vote for the

    Candidate Obama was consistently opposed to the invasion but made it clear that once our troops were engaged he would support funding them.

    http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/03/22/obama_defends_votes_in_favor_of_iraq_funding/

    Moving debt from one budget to another is not creating debt.

    Yes – blame each and every member of Congress that backed increase spending, except for spending in direct support of troops engaged in combat operations.

    Moreover, blame the ones who voted to expand Afghanistan and to invade Iraq.

    CT7 – odd that most American hate Obamacare but support the Affordable Care Act.

  127. CT7, Romney is either lying now or lied in the past, Which is it? The American people want to know.

    How can he base his claim being a Massachusetts resident for two years when he lived full-time in his home in Utah? He based it solely on returning “frequently” to Massachusetts to conduct important Board business for Bain. If you watch something other than Fox, you’ve seen the tape where he asserts this emphatically.

    Then after he files for governor in the debates he says that he didn’t do anything for Bain while receiving what we know now is over $100,000 per year for this “nothing’ he claims to have done.

    He needs to grow a pair and take responsibility for his votes on Bain’s activities during the years he was CEO, Board Chair and sole investor. If he wasn’t responsible for the decisions that ruined many people’s lives and shut down good companies, he could show that quickly by showing he voted against it at the board meetings or he really did not attend the board meetings, as he asserted in Massachusetts, was not a Massachusetts resident, not qualified to run for governor and thus was lying.

  128. hansgruber says:

    Xring-We all know Obama was opposed to the war in Iraq. We all know he was a state senator in Ill. We all know he was for the war in A’stan. We all know he was elected to the US Senate in 2004. We all know he voted in favor of every final annual budget and every final supplemental budget during is 4 yrs as a US Senator.

    President Obama expanded to war in A’stan. Don’t you remember?

    Aug 17, 2009
    PHOENIX (Reuters) – President Barack Obama on Monday called the conflict in Afghanistan “a war worth fighting” in a speech designed to stiffen U.S. public support ahead of this week’s important Afghan elections.

  129. took14theteam says:

    “I hate Obama, even when he is instituting conservative policies”

    Your side seems to forget the hate and vitriol that was directed towards former President Bush for 8 years.

    Your side can dish it out but not take it.

    You should be thankful that you will only have to hear the hate toward Obama for 4 years…..

  130. fanciladi says:

    CB…I’ve gotten my info from the mouths of those in government, too! I hear what they promised and see what they do or do not deliver.

  131. so, took, what “side” do you think I am on? I haven’t ever used hate and vitriol, so what side does that put me on?

    I am a practical person, very little swayed by ideology. What I look for are facts, reason and what works.

    I was whole-heartedly in support of Reaganomics at first, but my fervor slowly died down when it showed that it could keep a great economy alive for a little while, but when the cycle went downhill, it couldn’t do anything to get it going again.

    I was an appointee of Bush in Texas and I still have fond memories of him and certainly of Laura. Cheney and Rove were his downfall, steering him into some really bad decisions for the country and turning a charming man into a political puppet. I shuddered when Romney sought advice from and said Cheney was a great leader.

    Just like Machiavelli, Cheney’s mantra was “the worst and most treacherous acts of the ruler are justified by the wickedness and treachery of the governed”.

  132. lylelaws says:

    Tuddo/xring

    I am sure that you boys must say something meaningful from time to time, but I just click passed your comments because they are often so lengthy that I keep dozing off when I try to read them.,

  133. lyle, I click past yours all the time, so no problem.

  134. averageJose says:

    LOL… same here Lyle.

  135. lylelaws says:

    tuddo,

    Good comment; short and sweet. See how easy that was?

  136. lyle, propaganda and attack statements are much easier and shorter to write and not something I generally do. I like writing something substantial showing facts. But here goes for those of you who like the far-right approach to debate.

    Romney is a complete lair and always will be. He takes delight in putting people out of work and betting against America.

    See, short and sweet and fits your style of comment.

  137. averageJose says:

    No, you just add alot of unnecessary verbage to the LLW talking talking points.

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