Letters to the Editor

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VOTER ID: What’s really behind the push?

Letter by Roman Gutierrez, Tacoma on July 12, 2012 at 1:11 pm with 71 Comments »
July 12, 2012 1:19 pm

Re: “It’s easy to avoid problems” (letter, 7-10).

First off, voters presenting ID is not in the Constitution. What bothers me most about these “voter ID” efforts (more than the voter-suppression idea) is that they are being attempted right before a presidential election.

Shouldn’t this major change to the way Americans have voted for at least the five decades I’ve been alive come in a well-thought-out, comprehensive plan? Also, shouldn’t this effort be started at the voter registration level? Shouldn’t some kind of a study be done to prove that this is totally necessary?

I find it very odd that those who raged for President Obama’s birth certificate long after it was provided oddly don’t have the same fervor for Mitt Romney’s tax returns. The same party that wants everyone to “show your papers” when you want to vote doesn’t want to know how your nominee earned all his money?

Since only 13 cases of voter fraud were detected from 2000 to 2010, I’d err on the side of common sense and say that it’s not a real problem, but voter ID efforts are a great way to reduce the vote of the poor and the elderly.

If you’re going to ask for identification, let’s identify where all Romney’s money came from first, because those realities could be an even bigger issue if he did become president.

Leave a comment Comments → 71
  1. philichi says:

    I suppose that this writer wasn’t around for the last several elections in Washington. Both Dino Rossi and Slade Gordon lost by a few votes that just “turned up”

    Just think, if Dino would have won, Washington would have been in far better financial shape now.

  2. Romney has provided everything required by law. How petty of the author. He wants dirt on the competition and is whining that Mitt has not provided ammo to the class warfare crowd.

    Where are BHOs college transcripts? As a founding member of the Choom Gang, I and many other are curious how he made it to the Ivy league.

  3. The true propose of the voter id witch hunt is to disenfranchise non-conservative voters.

    Pchi – Rossi lost because his handpicked conservative judge could not mind probable cause that there had been any voter fraud.

    The bottom line is the even W’s DOJ could only find about 120-voter fraud cases during a 5-year study and that the only know incidents of election tampering have been by the GOP.

  4. The mythology that Rossi would have won except for fraud is amazing. The Republican judge handpicked by Rossi and living in Rossi’s territory of Eastern Washington looked at all the evidence and found twelve phantom voters who could not be located and one likely fraud case. Every one of those votes that were found questionable were for Rossi.

  5. Ahhhh, yet another “don’t ask me for my proof of citizenship, ask Romney why he is rich and I’m not” letter. You liberals are so transparent, full of hate and rage at successful people, get over it and get a life. Mitt Romney will be your preident in seven months.

  6. truthbusterguy says:

    Jury pools are taken from the list of those with WA State drivers lic. Counties all over the state report those with drivers licenses being rejected from jury duty because they are not US Citizens. A cross reference of the voting records show that many that don’t qualify for the jury are indeed voting in elections. VOTER FRAUD IS REAL IN WA STATE.

    Proof:
    From Douglas County Superior Court the cross-referencing of 238 non-citizen non-jurors between 2008 and 2010 revealed seven (7) voted. The voter registrations of the seven have been confirmed by the Washington State Secretary of State.

    From Okanogan County District Court the cross-referencing of 178 non-citizen non-jurors between 2008 and 2010 revealed 8 were voting.

    King County Superior Court refused to release the public’s record of non-jurors, the court did reveal that for 2008-2009 6962 summoned jurors identified themselves as non-U.S. citizens. If Douglas and Okanogan experience holds in King County, there may be as many as 200 registered voters among the 6962 non-citizens. Those 6962 non-citizens entered the Master Jury Pool due to the failure of Washington’s governor, representatives and senators to require verification of U.S. lawful presence as a condition of drivers license issuance. Driver licensees automatically become part of the Master Jury Pool.

  7. Fibonacci says:

    frosty
    Romney is a liar and a fraud. How is it Patriotic to put your money in Swiss accounts–don’t we have banks here? NOW he is on the hook for just when he stopped working for Bain and when the jobs went overseas. He is a vulture capitalist and claims he does not know where all his money is, and you want HIM to run the country.

  8. LeePHill says:

    philichi must have missed the conservative judged from Chelan County that said Rossi lost the election, along with missing that Republican Sam Reed sheparded the recounts.

    Democrat Maria Cantwell won an upset victory by 2,229 votes.

    I guess that is “a few that turned up”

    Don’t you just love how conservatives make up their own truths?

  9. LeePHill says:

    “As a founding member of the Choom Gang”

    This is the new “birth certificate” because it’s not racist to say that black guys smoke dope.

  10. LeePHill says:

    “On February 26, as a part of the Republican suit, Rossi’s legal team produced a list of 1,135 felons, deceased people, or people who allegedly voted twice, whom attorneys claimed influenced the outcome.[citation needed] A substantial number of the felon-voters were convicted as juveniles and were legally permitted to vote.[26] Conservative columnists suggested that felons were more likely to vote for Gregoire, but most of the felon-voters resided in counties won by Rossi.

  11. LeePHill says:

    “You liberals are so transparent, full of hate and rage at successful people”

    Says the guy with hate and rage directed at a successful man, raised by a single mother, completed a premier law school, elected to public offices more than once, and finally elected President of the United States.

    Who hates successful people?

    The Irony King.

  12. Nice try. He got your vote, and will get it in Nov, and nothing in his weak record will change that. But acknowledge he was a pothead in high school. It is a proven fact.

  13. ” raised by a single mother”. You need to re phrase that to say “raised by his white grandparents”. There’s much more of Obama’s resume that you left out, like his pastor, his friends and associates, his business dealings with known felons etc. Don’t try to mask the truth. Not only was he a pothead, he also used cocaine.

  14. Fibonacci, all that you stated is hearsay. Where’s the beef? Even if he did put HIS money in a Swiss bank, why is that any of your business? Obama pulled off a shady deal on his real estate purchase and didn’t pay the true amount it was worth in taxes.

  15. averageJose says:

    LMAO… so I get thru the first 10 words and the first thing that pops into my mind is Obamacare. Kooky.

    To answer the question “what’s really behind the push?”, one legal vote, one real person. It’s that simple.

  16. LeePHill says:

    “Even if he did put HIS money in a Swiss bank, why is that any of your business?”

    The President of the United States, who is getting paid by our tax dollars is avoiding taxes and frosty wants to say it’s not our business.

    “Obama pulled off a shady deal on his real estate purchase and didn’t pay the true amount it was worth in taxes”

    Not a word of truth in that statement.

    “raised by his white grandparents”

    Racial hatred. Uglier than regular hatred.

    King of Irony strikes again.

    “Not only was he a pothead, he also used cocaine.”

    What is a “pothead”? One joint? Two? If you haven’t used in 30 years, are you a pothead? “Used cocaine”? How about Rush Limbaugh and his addiction to pain killers? Is that as bad as “using cocaine”?

    frosty – admit it…you are full of hate and rage.

    Hey…CT7 – that “pothead” was scholarshipped and graduated (with honors) at some of the finest colleges in the world. How’s that match up with your boot camp credentials and some non-combat service?

    If “potheads” are so bad and can complete that kind of education, what was your problem? Booze???? Too much drinking can stand in the way of learning.

    Another one full of hate and rage.

  17. averageJose says:

    Oh, and btw… the first 10 or so years I voted at the polls I had to produce a valid ID.

  18. LeePHill says:

    http://factcheck.org/2007/12/obamas-chicago-home/

    Now, someone ask Jose if factcheck is OK as a source today. One day it’s a liberal propaganda piece and another day he quotes it.

    I’ve never been asked for ID when voting. Of course, I didn’t live in a Neanderthal village all dressed in red.

  19. philichi says:

    I feel that the issue isn’t worth it. Would any of us care if we needed to show ID to buy cigarettes, beer, or watch a rated R movie? What about showing ID to get on an Airplane? Why is showing ID to vote even controversial? Who in their wildest imagination would disagree?

    Who doesn’t have ID? How do they deal with life?

  20. There are no laws requiring candidates to show birth certificates and / or college transcripts; THERE ARE laws requiring full finical disclosers.

    There are only three reasons for having offshore accounts:

    Money acquired illegally.

    Avoidance of US taxes.

    Lack of trust US economy.

    So Mr. Romney – what is your reason for having three offshore accounts?

    Inquiring Minds want to know.

    Romney has not even provided sufficient finacial and tax informantion to allow the US Senate to hold conformation hearings, let alone to be considered for President.

  21. There are no laws requiring candidates to show birth certificates and / or college transcripts.

    THERE ARE laws requiring full finical disclosers.

    Romeny has not disclosed the minimum fiscal data required by the Senate to hold confirmation hears for a cabinet appointement.

    There are only three reasons for having offshore:

    hide money from US law enforcement agencies

    hide money from IRS

    lack of trust is US banks

    So Mr. Romney – what is your reason for having three offshore accounts?

    Inquiring Minds want to know.

    Truth buster: you ‘truth’ is busted.

    Jury pools are drawn from lists of REGISTERED VOTERS.

    That renders your whole post invalid.

  22. Frankenchrist says:

    Romney was firing U.S. workers and sending their jobs to China as recently as 2002. He’s a liar and an enemy of Americans.

  23. I find it very odd that those who raged for President Obama’s birth certificate long after it was provided oddly don’t have the same fervor for Mitt Romney’s tax returns. The same party that wants everyone to “show your papers” when you want to vote doesn’t want to know how your nominee earned all his money?

    I find non-sequiturs in LTE’s odd.

    Edit???? Please?!

    But then again, no good little robot/ liberal could possibly compose an LTE that didn’t include instructions from the Center for American Progress… which means get every democrat talking point possible into the allotted 250 words.

  24. rooster_02 says:

    I wanna see Romneys marriage certificate. He has multiple homes, he is a mormon, and well….and besides that just remember that whenever you see Willard he is wearing the “magic underwear”. Are we sure he isn’t a Mexican? After all…didnt his grandfather give up his US citizenship so he could live in mexico with multiple wives? So…..I wanna see his birth certificate,

    Think about it…..

  25. Thinking you’ve managed to show religious bigotry and racism all in one “cock’a-doodle-doooooooo”.

    Congratulations.

  26. LeePHill says:

    “Who doesn’t have ID? How do they deal with life?”

    It’s not a matter of “ID” but a matter of “acceptable ID”.

    As usual the conservatives are purposefully ignorant on the subject of voter ID.

  27. Of the estimated 14,000,000 non citizens currently residing in the United States how many have voted in our elections? Voter fraud exists. To deny it is certainly not a logical position given the number of possible illegal voters.

  28. Oldoc – to use a GOP tactic – where is your proof.

    Bush DOJ, five-year investiagation found 120 verifed voter fraud exists.

  29. LeePHill says:

    Of the “estimated” 14 million, how many are children? How many of said children were really born in the US? etc, etc, etc

    Since an average election pulls about 35% of the voters, you could also apply that percentage to “non-citizen voters”

    If voter fraud was a real issue, we’d be investigating the voting machines, manufacturers and programmers.

  30. LeePHill says:

    “Thinking you’ve managed to show religious bigotry and racism all in one “cock’a-doodle-doooooooo”.”

    Let’s see. If Obama’s heritage is questioned, it’s not racism. If Romeny’s heritage is questioned, it’s racism. If someone talks about Obama’s religion, it’s OK. If you talk about Romney’s, it’s bigotry.

    Well….we finally have a winner in the Birther Irony Classic Division.

  31. Xring and LeeP do not consider 14,000,000 non citizen residents a sufficient number strongly inferring that some voted. Might I suggest a course in statistics? Of the nearly 130,000,000 votes cast in the 2008 presidential election, will X and LPH maintain that all were cast by registered citizens of the United States? Well no, but…..

  32. averageJose says:

    Read the letter and replace voter ID with Obamacare, or foodstamps, or subsidized housing, mass transit, income tax, or etc., etc., ect.

    Cracks me up how lefties have misunderstood the purpose of the constitution.

  33. averageJose says:

    My bad, I sould have said sum lefites. ;)

  34. Ok Hill, how many people TODAY (not 1930) do not have an ID to open a bank account or cash a govt check?

  35. LeePHill says:

    CT7 – you are the perfect example of “purposefully ignorant”.

    You can open a bank account with a social security card. The same card is legit for cashing a government check (I’ll not go into how you clowns always say that all the illegals are getting government checks….I guess they aren’t cashing them, huh????)

    Many of the states seeking to restrict voting rights are not accepting social security ID as ACCEPTABLE.

    olddoc – why did the Bush Administration, with millions of dollars spent on the project, only find 270 cases of fraud? Do you think that fraud takes place with hacked voting machines? It’s been proven it can be done in a manner of about a minute.

    http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2011/09/30/researchers-hack-voting-machine-for-26/

    I used Fox’s story, so that conservatives won’t say it’s “Democratic Propaganda”

  36. averageJose says:

    LOL, actually, it’s Fox reporting on a Salon story… but that doesn’t matter.
    Is there proof that a voting machine has ever really been hacked? That’s your litmus test right?

    I am in favor of fixing the ability to hack voting machines, ensuring people are who they say they are with valid ID, and any other means to ensure the integrity of our electorate.

  37. averageJose says:

    … electoral process. :)

  38. LeePHill says:

    Ah yes…..question the voting maching hacking possibilities but KNOW that illegals are voting for Obama.

    You have to love conservative logic……

    “ensuring people are who they say they are with valid ID, and any other means to ensure the integrity of our electorate.”

    GREAT! Make Social Security ID be the ACCEPTABLE ID and go on with it.

    How about one time, a person has to prove they are legal and then be done with it? That way if they have to travel an hour to the county office that handles voter registration, they only have to do it once….even though they might be 70 years old and have been voting for 40 or more years….

    Wait…how about this….let social security send their data base of adults over the age of 18, each year, to voting registration locales and after voting they can check to make sure no one cheated.

    All of this will make for the smaller government that the conservatives claim they are wanting.

  39. LeePHill says:

    Once we have made sure that there isn’t one illegal vote, then we’ll address the fraud with the military industrial complex.

    Priorities.

    You know that illegal votes are costing our government serious amounts of money…..

    Maybe we can reduce the debt with making sure that no illegal votes are cast.

  40. LeeP, the government spends billions on a host of questionable “projects”. I believe statistical probability entails a great deal more validity and reliability than I would accord most government “projects”.

  41. averageJose says:

    Did I question the voting maching hacking possibilities? Uh, no.

    How do you suppose there ends up being more votes cast than registered voters in many locals?

  42. averageJose says:

    google more votes than registered voters.

  43. That was a good attempt to shift the thread, Hill. Glad you can stay on topic.

    Now, go to a bank with a small piece of paper with your SSN and no other photo ID. Try to open an account.

    Why are you so scared of common sense? Why do speak in DNC talking points?

  44. philichi says:

    Dear Libs, please don’t get yourselves excited about offshore accounts, Swiss bank accounts or Romney being involved with Bain past the Olympics. It won’t be an issue.

    1) The largest brokerage firm in Tacoma happens to be Swiss. Does that mean that those clients can’t be President?
    2)Hedge funds and Private equity accounts are complex and generally domiciled off shore. I can explain, but what would be the point?
    3)A private equity investment generally takes 3 to 7 years for fruition. That means that if Romney left the firm, he would still be on many documents for the investments that were started when he was there. That doesnt mean that he was making decisions.
    I realize that much of this is hard for you to understand. However, trust me, the community organizer will no longer be holding back our country after January.

  45. Lee,
    One minor fact the conservacons are hiding – the name on the ID has to match exactly the name on the voter rolls. So if one says John Quincy Public and the other says John Q. Public you cannot vote.

    Oldoc,
    The total number of resident non-citizens is irrelevant.

    The relevant number is the number that vote illegally.

    According to Bush’s DOJ that number cannot be larger than 120 during the years 2001 – 2006.

    Even the highest state and local reports place the type of voter assures addressed by vote-id laws are under 3%, and the largest subgroup involves someone submitting a deceased realtive or friend’s ballot.

    Ajo,
    An even more tragic how the right distorts the Constitution to support their ideas.

    CT7 – note second *

    Policy Brief on Voter Identification – Analysis Summary

    * Restrictive voter identification policies – especially those that require state-issued photo ID cards – threaten to exclude millions of eligible voters.

    * As many as 10% of eligible voters do not have, and will not get, the documents required by strict voter ID laws. For some groups, the percentage is much higher.

    * ID requirements fall hardest on people who have traditionally faced barriers at the polls.

    * ID requirements are not justified by any serious or widespread problem.

    * There is no reason for states to implement burdensome ID requirements.

    * States that do require proof of identity at the polls should permit an expansive range of proof.

    http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/policy_brief_on_voter_identification/

  46. “Burdensome”? The bias is right there.

    Getting an ID is incredibly easy. Come on.

    Philichi, even though he claimed those accounts and paid US taxes on the income, the leftists do not care. A better question would be what is wrong with the US tax code that foriegn investors do not want to do business with US banks (one of the many reasons Mitt had those accounts).

  47. Scottc51 says:

    I want to cash some checks with those who don’t believe in ID’s.
    Bring cash.
    I’ll write the checks.
    You don’t ask for my ID.
    Just give me the money.
    Thanks.

  48. Fibonacci says:

    philci
    Don’t get for socks in an uproar. Most Americans WILL care that MItt is hiding money in Swiss accounts to keep from paying taxes. If this is not the case, why doesn’t he put his money in AMERICAN banks, after all, he wants to be President of AMERICA, not Switzerland. And his lying about when he was in charge of Bain Capital will her important to all Americans that believe in honesty (I realizer this leaves out a good portion of Republicans). This is the beginning of the end for good old Mitt. Even Gingrich said that he should have cleared this up a long time ago. You are going Down MItt!!!!!!!!!

  49. averageJose says:

    I wonder how the IRS is going to handle people w/o ID in regard to Obamacare…

    I wonder how many people w/o ID have an Obamaphone…

    I wonder how many people that use a government or charitable program to meet their basic needs do not have valid ID…

  50. averageJose says:

    Fib, you’re making a huge assumption that the dnc talking point is true and accurate.

  51. falkoja6 says:

    LeePHill sez….

    “You can open a bank account with a social security card. The same card is legit for cashing a government check (I’ll not go into how you clowns always say that all the illegals are getting government checks….I guess they aren’t cashing them, huh????)”

    That’s funny because at the bottom of my card issued in 1952 it sez

    “Not to be used for Identification Purposes” The Seattle times today had an article about voter fraud… it exists.

    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2018675340_apusvoterregistrationwoes.html?prmid=head_main

  52. LeePHill says:

    Yeah…funny how the card and ID number with that warning has become demanded by so many. Try to get a bank account without providing your social security number and see how successful you are.

    As to “voter fraud exists” – no question. Look at Florida 2000 and Ohio 2004

  53. LeePHill says:

    “CT7 says:
    July 13, 2012 at 9:06 am That was a good attempt to shift the thread, Hill. Glad you can stay on topic.”

    So small government and cost controls are no longer an issue, as long as it has to do with a small minority of illegal votes cast? We can increase the size of government and spend as much as we’d like, as long as it isn’t about social needs?

    It’s interesting how the conservatives can switch gears to suit their needs and are so quick to accuse others of the same.

    For those that can think past one dimentional – voting fraud is an issue that extends far beyond some guy voting for his dead wife or vice versa. The Bush Administration spent millions of dollars chasing 270 cases of fraud, which probably wouldn’t be the total number for a dog catcher election if all 270 were in the same place.

    This is a classic example of the cons chasing their tails and spending whatever it takes to serve their need – a lower voting base.

  54. Fibonacci says:

    OH yea, let’s here it for voter fraud. There is so much that they found 120 cases over, what a 10 year period at the cost of millions of dollars. Yup a HUGE problem there. It is so darned funny seeing the right trying to pretend they care about fraud when it is just so transparent that what they really want is to stop as many people that traditionally got demolcratic form voting.

    Hey, I STILL want to know why Romney keeping his money in SWITZERLAND is OK with the right? Tell me how that helps THIS country?

  55. Because he pays US taxes on income.

  56. Fibonacci says:

    How do you know CT7? Because you “trust” him? Again, I know you won’t answer because you can’t, but how is keeping your money offshore a Patriotic thing to do for someone that wants to be president of THIS country? How does it help THIS country? Don’t we have banks here good enough for old Mitt?

  57. LeePHill says:

    “CT7 says:
    July 13, 2012 at 1:53 pm Because he pays US taxes on income.”

    Wanna buy a bridge?

    Google “why put money in foreign banks” and find the answer.

  58. CT7,
    Now ain’t that just peachy-keen. The state where you don’t need a voter-id card to vote has made is oh so easy to obtain an ID card.

    Too bad Texas, Wisconsin, and the other red-states laws requiring the new cards also made in more difficult to obtain the cards. (ie – Wisconsin Voter ID cards are issued at DMV offices, but the State closed most of the offices in Democratic areas.)

    ‘Romney claimed and paid taxes on his overseas accounts’ – NO! HE DID NOT.

    aJo
    Probably the same way IRS handles everyone else – by social security numbers.

    No ids required to obtain phones or cell phones.
    Many forms of id exist, and are widely accepted, that are not valid voter ids.

    Show me one DNC talking point on this tread.

    Falkoj6:
    Voter fraud, simple put, is the deliberate improper interference with an election.

    While the Times article has a certain Marx Brothers quality about it, I do not see any deliberate attempt such as one sees in GOP robbo calls to registered Wisconsin Democrats telling them that:

    If they had signed the Walker Recall Petition, they did not need to vote at the polls on Election Day, their name on the Recall Petiton’s had been would count as their vote.

    Or,

    That due to expected record turn outs, Republicans were to vote on election day, and all other parties would vote the following day

  59. Tinfoil hats!

    But ignore te Choom gang. Pathetic!

  60. Silence….

  61. The Choom gang!!!!!! Obama, as a high schooler, smoked pot with a group called the Choom gang….and I heard they off-shored jobs when Obama was in high school and they practiced vulture capitalism…..wait a minute….that was Bain Capital when Romney was CEO and lying about his influence over decisions there.

  62. Seriously CT7….do you really think that, after all the birther, muslim, Wright, Ayers attempts to demonize Obama only worked with those who already hated him for being……different….that the fact that he smoked pot in high school (something he never denied) is going to change anyone’s mind?

  63. averageJose says:

    … and cocaine.
    Ayers, Wright, et al are still valid in unserstanding Barry’s choice of who he affiliated with and modeled his own idealogy after. I remember well your hackneyed referencing of Bush speaking at Bob Jones U. Kinda pales in comparision to Barry’s choice of friends and 20 years of sitting in the pews at Wright’s church never once hearing Wright’s hate filled racist rants. LOL.

  64. averageJose says:

    I wonder if the make believe girls he wrote about in his book was actually a dude.

  65. I wonder if the make believe girls he wrote about in his book was actually a dude.

    Aside from revealing your own gender-based confusion, the above sentence confuses plural with singular.

  66. average Jose, and Romney affiliates himself with a religion, that during the time he was a member relegated blacks to an inferior status, claimed they were cursed by God and not allowed to be full-fledged members.

    Am I saying Romney believes that now? No, but using your logic, he must be labeled with the beliefs of those with whom he associates, right?

  67. averageJose says:

    LOL… what does this reveal about the author…

    “Governor Butch Otter (his name seems like a gay bestiality porn star)” … bB?

  68. a sense of humor.

  69. averageJose says:

    LOL… I was thinking more along the lines of confusion… just not entirely sure of the basis.

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