Letters to the Editor

Your views in 200 words or less

ECONOMY: Our ‘means’ not enough in the end

Letter by Alan Cook, Tacoma on July 3, 2012 at 2:30 pm with 89 Comments »
July 3, 2012 3:06 pm

As more and more costs are shifted onto individuals, I have a few questions.

Primarily, where are we supposed to get the money to for student loans, health care, to raise kids, fund our own retirement, support aging relatives in their later years, put a roof over our heads and food on the table?

More and more costs are being shoved onto individuals at the same time that real wages are stagnating or falling. The “just live within your means” crowd doesn’t get that if everyone lived within our means, the national economy would implode (70 percent of our GDP is based on consumer spending).

I guess our options are to continue to buy middle-class lifestyles using credit cards. Or simply throw in the towel and admit that 80 percent of Americans are now, in practical terms, lower class and that this nation has no plan to make things better. Sadly, many in Congress are actually working tirelessly to ensure the middle class disappears entirely.

We are quickly devolving into a second-world society with no clear end in sight. Will we stop at second-world status or continue to plummet to third-world status?

I dread to see what this country will look like in 2050. Thankfully, or hopefully, I won’t be around to see the carnage.

Leave a comment Comments → 89
  1. BigSwingingRichard says:

    Your attitude and pessimism is consistent with the feelings and beliefs of our current President.

    What this country really needs is a turn around expert, someone like Mitt Romney.

    The direction of the future of our country really does depend on it.

  2. The answer to your question is to work. Stop looking for govt to provide solutions to individual problems. How did people do all those things before the entitlement society took charge?

    Parents stayed together, saved for their retirement and their children’s college.

    You and your attitude will not be missed.

  3. itwasntmethistime says:

    I think what’s feeding this issue is that there is a huge difference in what different people consider a “middle-class” lifestyle to be.

    Some families have a large home with a bedroom for each child, full to the brim with electronics and the latest greatest toys and fashions, cell phones, new cars, airplane vacations, etc, but all they do is complain they don’t have enough. They feel poor because all they think of is the stuff they don’t have.

    It seems to me that if you make enough money to reliably keep a roof over your head, clothes on your back, food in the fridge, your car runs well, and sometimes you can buy things you want that you don’t really need you are neither poor nor rich. That makes you middle class.

  4. When do you think the “entitlement society” took charge? Before FDR? Not that many went to college, or retired.

  5. menopaws says:

    Corporations are people….remember???? As long as that attitude prevails and politicians believe that as they stuff corporate cash into their pockets……this writer is correct…the middle class will disappear…….It’s not about an entitlement” society—it’s about those who have…and those who don’t……..And, those who don’t, don’t seem to matter much these days.

  6. dtacoma says:

    Basically the social compact that most of us currently living signed onto, is disappearing. There simply isn’t the income to match the needs. The only thing working people can control is spending. What macroeconomic effect will that have on our economy and the opportunities for our children? The letter writer hit the nail on the head. This has nothing to do with presidents; they are powerless to stop the devolution. The forces working against our previous standard of living are stronger than any one individual – regardless of their title.

    The math doesn’t add up. Something, or many somethings will have to give. Retirements? Decent healthcare? College educations? The average working person can no longer afford to fund all of it.

  7. sandblower says:

    The 6 Walton heirs have more wealth than the bottom 30% of Americans. There is something wrong with that and I don’t mean that the rich don’t deserve to be rich. What I do mean is that there are too many folks who are in the bottom 30% who are poor.
    Romney does not care about the poor any more than any other conservative does and that is not much. Why do you think they call themselves conservatives?——–it is because they are reactionary in their stance to any change that might make opportunities equal and better. They want to “conserve” what they have and not share with anyone else the riches they enjoy by way of our democracy and economic structure to which everyone contributes one way or another. The world should change or do away with the word conservative and replace it with ignorant. Stupid might be the favorite for some, but stupid is difficult to overcome. Ignorant means that a little learning might be the solution.

  8. itwasntmethistime says:

    menopaws and dt — You guys are seriously confused between “needs” and “wants.” Our lower-income population currently enjoys a very comparable standard of living to previous generations of middle-class Americans. They have enough to eat, a place to live, clothes to wear, schools for their kids.

    What you should have written was “there simply isn’t the income to match the wants.”

    You can watch your giant TVs and play with your fancy smart phones all day long. When I have saved enough for retirement and my kids’ college tuition I’ll come ask you what flat screen TV I should buy.

  9. aislander says:

    I think the writer is correct that many in Congress are obstacles to the rebound of the middle class, but I also think he has the wrong cohort in mind.

    As long as government pillages such a huge share of resources from businesses and potential businesses, we cannot hope to enlarge the pie…

  10. bobcat1a says:

    Aislander, government “pillages” a much lower percent of income than it did in the not so distant past…like my childhood.

  11. aislander says:

    Then why are the “rich” paying a larger percentage of the total than they ever have? Hmmm?

  12. aislander says:

    You’re kidding, right?

  13. dtacoma says:

    Actually, I’m not confused with needs vs. wants, itwasntmethistime.

    I’m talking about fully funding retirements, paying off student loans, saving for health care costs, caring for elderly relatives in their old age, and raising children. Nowhere did I mention big screen televisions, smart phones, new cars, McMansions, extravagant vacations, or any other “want”.

  14. DT, and your argument is that their is not enough wealth in the US to do those things?

    SB, since you probably heard that stat somewhere, what they did not tell you is anyone not in debt is wealthier then that 30%. Some victory

  15. philichi says:

    Sandblower says that Romney doesn’t care about the poor. In his tax statements it showed that he gave millions of dollars away each year. A lot went to feeding programs for the poor in the US and all over the world. What else would you like him to do? How much do you give away? Don’t you care about the poor?

  16. cclngthr says:

    With a smartphone, I have a Net 10 android that cost less than $100 and monthly service is a $50 card that includes unlimited web/talk and text.

    Flat screen TV’s are the only TV that works now. When the country went to digital broadcasting, tube type TV’s went out.

    Cars? I can buy a Nissan Versa for less than $14K, or a Kia Rio for less than $15K. Those are new cars.

    You also have to consider if a family has a boy and a girl, would you put them in the same bedroom? How about the same bed? Teenage kids in the same bedroom that are opposite sex?

    Not everything is expensive. Large screen TV’s are not $1,000 anymore. Cell phones are cheaper than you think.

  17. As more and more costs are shifted onto individuals, I have a few questions.

    Primarily, where are we supposed to get the money to for student loans, health care, to raise kids, fund our own retirement, support aging relatives in their later years, put a roof over our heads and food on the table?

    More and more costs are being shoved onto individuals…

    What “costs”?

    I have only to think of my parents and their struggles in the 50’s and 60’s – putting eight kids through school and college on middle class wages. They received not one dollar of support for any of the goals the writer lists, yet we were provided a wonderful upbringing, all attended college, my parents managed to save for their retirement, my grandparents were cared for by them when it ultimately became necessary, and we always had a home and food.

    Great example of the new “entitlement” mentality, I guess.

  18. beerBoy says:

    I have only to think of my parents and their struggles in the 50′s and 60′s

    Yep, my parents scrimped to put 5 children through college. But my mom didn’t have to work and my dad got an early retirement package that now pays him more than I will ever earn. The 50s and 60s were the days of honey and cream in America…..America was the only industrialized country left standing intact after the War and it was boom times.

    If you want to think back to the struggles of our elders you should go back to the 30s. To my parents’ parents

  19. harleyrider1 says:

    We have evolved into half of America supporting the other half and yet, still trying to better themselves. The stats are 51% supporting 49%.

    What is the incentive for those people to work? What I mean is why? They are given EBIT cards to use each month at the grocery store or casino; they are given healthcare; they are given rent subsidy and in some cases free rent; they have everything they want.

    No one requires them to work. in the 1930’s one was required to at least work for their soup – public work projects; or pick up parks; pick up roadsides. The fact is they had to work.

    We don’t need leaders that believe people should get things free in such quantity and with such regularity, do we?

    I am only one voter but I would like to see us apply some rules: the person collecting us to physically appear and be fingerprinted (verification of who they are); they must be a U.S. citizen or here legally; those without a medical release by a board (like the Selective Service Board did), must do public work until they obtain work elsewhere.

    President Reagan when Governor of California predicted they would run out of money if they did not do this. They set up a program and tens of thousands of names dropped off almost over-night. Turns out people were collecting under multiple names or dead people as well as their own.

    We have had many a person in the Hilltop be the “central” point for social security checks to arrive each month. Then for a “fee”, he disburses them.

    When half of us are working and now almost half are not, we do need to take a look at what we have done. We need to make a change. This is not working and we can no longer afford such numbers.

    This Fall, when you vote, think about this. You go to work each day so your neighbor down the street doesn’t have to. We need a better way and it’s not rallying people to dislike the few left that have worked hard all their lives. We do not need a divider.

    We need a leader with some answers. Blaming a previous office holder after 4-years for our situation in 2012 because all you have done is fly around the Country with rock and movie stars is not working. when the most important thing to an individual is to have more fun raisers than the previous five (5) Presidents, his priority is askewed. I would have liked to have seen my President put that effort into helping America.

    Can you imagine after four (4) years if his organization, his movie star friends, the sports teams he invites to the White House, his web pleas, his daily TV and radio had all been focused on a solution, that he thought of, we may not be having such angst.

    I can blame Bush, I can blame Congress – you can too. Where’s that get us when we have no plan.

    Now, the one thing that did come out was a new tax plan – 21 taxes the Supreme Court said. Taxing business and taxing the remaining Americans who work even more – is that really a solution?

  20. ThomasSkidmore says:

    “Romney”…a joke right??? How many American jobs has he been responsible for shipping overseas.

    If we had “jobs-jobs-jobs” there is plenty of money to operate a first class country. Last time I checked the Republicons had all the job bills blocked in the Congress because they care more about defeating Obama than they do about the country.

    Obviously another Fox Noise viewer!

  21. Final_Analysis says:

    harleyrider1: Great Comment. Hopefully this country will change direction after this next election. If not, basic economics will eventually force the change, and it will be harder on everyone.

  22. philichi says:

    ThomasSkidmor: says that “the Republicans have all of the jobs bills blocked”. Do you consider a borrowing $400 billion more to hire more teachers and firemen a jobs bill? When that runs out don’t we just have to keep doing it? Obama’s last spending spree lowered our credit rating. What do you think that this one will do?

    Wouldn’t it be better to make the conditions better for businesses to want to expand and hire? How about a low tax bracket that they can count on for a long time? How about the construction of Key stone pipe line? How about more drilling and cheaper energy? How about running our cars off of the same natural gas that we have a glut of under our county.

    That is what a true leader would be doing. Not giving $400 billion to teachers unions.

    by the way, when Obama was elected, I have to say I was sort of excited to see the new smart guy think of new smart ideas. All we have seen is old, tired, tax and spend, big government solutions of the past. They have not worked anywhere they were tried. I am very ready for this guy and his band of lefties to go back to their university faculty lounges where they came from.

  23. BigSwingingRichard says:

    Mr Cook appears to have accepted the new Obama campaign slogan change from “Yes We Can” to “Why We Couldn’t.”

  24. Clamat0 says:

    Rhetorical lib meme disguised as a question:

    “Romney”…a joke right??? How many American jobs has he been responsible for shipping overseas.

    Obvious non-talking point, cue-from-the-DNC/ 0bama campaign answer:

    None – as in zip, nada, zilch, zed.


    The only thing the DNC/ 0bama campaign zombies and their boot-lickers in the MSM (like the Washington Post, for example) can come up with is three companies that Bain invested in while Romney was at the helm, that specialized in out-sourcing – to other locations in the US, at the time – low-paying jobs in tedious and unprofitable divisions of US companies, such as call centers and tech support for Microsoft, etc.

    First of all, no U.S. jobs were offshored by these companies during Romney’s tenure at Bain, which ended in 1999. And second, what happened with those companies after Romney left is irrelevant.

    If you take the time to follow the link instead of spouting internet meme and lib-blog talking points, you’ll see a lot of data that show the outsourcing in the late 1990s in the companies in question was occurring on U.S. soil with U.S. workers, and that the foreign call centers and foreign factories set up by these companies were serving foreign customers — a call center in Japan using Japanese speakers to service Japanese buyers of U.S. software, for example.

    But we wouldn’t want facts to obscure the latest 0bama/ democrat lie about Romney now would we.

  25. SwordofPerseus says:

    The problem is capitalism, this is the end result of unregulated “free trade”. The will be no recovery without a complete change, and we are rudderless. The mass of people are clueless, many are so desperate they are seriously considering voting for Rawmoney.

    Until we revoke the FED charter and dismantle the bloated military industrial complex empire building machine, this will get worse. It’s probably too late now to save America as we knew it.

  26. SwordofPerseus says:

    Clamo says – “0bama campaign zombies and their boot-lickers in the MSM (like the Washington Post, for example)”

    Then conveniently references a Washington Post article. So clueless it’s priceless.

    Vote Willard Rawmoney!

  27. SoP- can you state here that Mitt has not sent jobs overseas?

    Also, a common thread among progressives and libertarians is a call to end the Fed. Why? Why lose our independent central bank and empower pols? Why trust our money supply management to a BHO or Congress? A bunch of lawyers turned pols. Great idea.

  28. charliebucket says:

    harley you are doing to Obama (blaming) exactly what you are scolding others not to do to GWB. and you heap on a bunch of blame on the poor and suggest what sounds like the gestapo coming into peoples’ homes if they aren’t doing what you think is right. you people terrify me. especially on Independence day you folks should really look into what freedom means. not to mention that we the people elected Obama in a fee and fair election for 4 years and all the screams and lies and slander toward our President and fellow Americans about socialism and communism and the duly passed health care bill being the end of our country blah blah blah really make you guys look stupid and like you do not honor what a democratic republic is: get a grip.


  29. CB- has BHO done anything wrong, in your view? What is his responsibity? Anything?

  30. SwordofPerseus says:

    Conc, may I call you Scott? You just don’t get it, do ya Scott?

    FED=debt for U.S.

    The FED is a private for profit bank that makes a living by sucking the money out of the government (our government) at a profit, creating debt which we can never repay. No country should allow a private banking group to control the money supply for a sovereign nation. That is not how our founding fathers envisioned the national monetary system to be controlled by a few rich oligarchs. I doubt that few who read this will comprehend the significance of this situation.


    As for Obama’s record, he is simply the lesser of two evils. Obama has capitulate far too much to the demands of the opposition party.
    He went along with the extension of the Bush tax cuts.
    He rolled over on the Public Option for affordable health care, and gave 15,000,000 new customers to the for profit health care lobby.
    He is more right wing than I would like, in fact he is just slightly to the right of Richard M. Nixon. But in today’s politics in the US the current right wing platform is slightly more autocratic and totalitarian than Stalin.

    With this ridiculous two party system I am forced to vote for the person who will do the least harm. Currently that would be Obama, not Willard RawMoney, the etch-a-sketch man.

  31. SwordofPerseus says:

    Ten Things The GOP Doesn’t Want You To Know

    1. GOP leaders agree U.S. default would be a “financial disaster.
    2. Ronald Reagan tripled the national debt.
    3. George W. Bush doubled the national debt.
    4. The GOP voted 7 times to raise the debt ceiling.
    5. Federal taxes are at a 60 year low.
    6. Bush tax cuts didn’t pay for themselves or spur “Job Creators.”
    7. Ryan budget delivers another tax cut windfall for the wealthy.
    8. Ryan budget will require raising the debt ceiling repeatedly.
    9. Tax cuts drive the next decade of debt.
    10. $3 trillion tab for unfunded wars remains unpaid.

  32. In case someone wanted the facts-

    The U.S. Government receives all of the system’s annual profits, after a statutory dividend of 6% on member banks’ capital investment is paid, and an account surplus is maintained. In 2010, the Federal Reserve made a profit of $82 billion and transferred $79 billion to the U.S. Treasury.[21] This was followed at the end of 2011 with a transfer of $77 billion in profits to the U.S. Treasury Department.[22]


    Nice Founder’s plug. So they would not like one small group controlling so much. Kind of like the entire reach of today’s federal govt.

  33. beerBoy says:

    As for Obama’s record, he is simply the lesser of two evils.

    As for Obama’s record, he is simply the lesser of two evils.

    As for Obama’s record, he is simply the lesser of two evils.

    As for Obama’s record, he is simply the lesser of two evils.

    Unless, of course, you are willing to “throw away your vote” for someone else…..

  34. philichi says:

    Obama is the less of two evils? Obama can’t even read a balance sheet or an income statement. We need a businessman that has some financial sanity. Obama has already given us one credit down grade. It is time to send him and his utopian statists back to the college faculty lounges that they came from. Send home the clowns, bring in the adults.

    Lets see Keystone built. Lets give businesses a stable low tax rate that they can count on. Let drill and become energy independents. Lets get rid of this silly healthcare law and other clean up the rest of the Obama regulations. We are one election away from growth again!

  35. SwordofPerseus says:

    Conc-nice copy and paste, not even close you fail…the FED has NEVER been audited. You don’t know what you are talking about. Why would you blindly trust and institution run by private non elected non accountable individuals like Jamie Dimon and Ken Lay? You are a bigger fool than I thought.

    Philitchy – Less than fail, you have no idea what you are spouting, Pinche piasso. Dumb azz, the congress teabaggers are responsible for the credit downgrade. Who turns your pc on for you? If stupidity were painful you would die from the agony. Taxes are the lowest in 60 years! Turn of fox, it is making you think stupid thoughts.

  36. SwordofPerseus says:

    John F. Kennedy had this to say about the FED;

    “For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its sphere of influence–on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations. Its preparations are concealed, not published. Its mistakes are buried, not headlined. Its dissenters are silenced, not praised. No expenditure is questioned, no rumor is printed, no secret is revealed. It conducts the Cold War, in short, with a war-time discipline no democracy would ever hope or wish to match.” American Newspaper Publishers Association on April 27, 1961

  37. SwordofPerseus says:

    Conc- this is for you, I don’t mean to be pedantic, but…

    “The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the Principles and form of our Constitution. I am an Enemy to all banks discounting bills or notes for anything but Coin. If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered.” ~ Thomas Jefferson This guy is credited for having authored the Constitution of the United States of America, I can think of no more appropriate time to bring this to light than on the anniversary of the founding of this Nation.

  38. So he wanted no central bank in the 18th century. Progressives created the Fed in the 20th.

    These are cute quotes, but you have established nothing, except that you believe in conspiracy theories.

  39. took14theteam says:

    Ya know, I smell k****r all over the Sword…..



  40. Happy 4th Took!

  41. beerBoy says:

    philichi – the first, and last, MBA President was W. ’nuff said.

  42. SandHills says:

    Before throwing in the towel, take all your credit cards to their limit – then, if you qualify based upon your state median income, file Chapter 7 Bankruptcy. Sure it ruins your credit – but it keeps your head above water for a few more months before going totally under.

    Banks got a bailout already, leave them holding the bag on credit cards.

    And folks this is coming fast down the tracks, along with more bad news in housing, employment, and Europe. At best we are in a small bubble, the calm before the storm – we ain”t seen nothing yet.

  43. LeePHill says:

    None – as in zip, nada, zilch, zed.

    The only thing the DNC/ 0bama campaign zombies and their boot-lickers in the MSM (like the Washington Post, for example) can come up with is three companies that Bain invested in while Romney was at the helm, that specialized in out-sourcing – to other locations in the US, at the time – low-paying jobs in tedious and unprofitable divisions of US companies, such as call centers and tech support for Microsoft, etc.

    You have to love that kind of doublespeak. But let’s translate:

    The only jobs that Romney’s company outsourced were low paying jobs to other locations in the US, so the people who had those low paying jobs could not afford to relocate and Romney’s companies found lower paying states (it’s called “right to work for nothing”) to eliminate a job for one person and pay the next person less.

    That is the way Romney and his friends in the Republican Party will make you all wealthy.

    As to smells……well…it speaks for itself…..you’d smell also if you took1

  44. LeePHill says:

    “The ad seizes on a recent Washington Post story outlining how several Bain-backed businesses transferred jobs to lower-wage countries such as China and India. Romney’s campaign said the story was factually inaccurate and asked the Post for a retraction. The newspaper stood by its report.

    There is no question that Bain did invest in businesses that moved jobs overseas to cut costs — a trend that began in the 1990s and which many U.S. companies followed. But that doesn’t mean Romney personally directed those companies to follow such practices.”

    Better than the Washington Post, take a look at:


    Who takes a look at what Gingrich said about Romney

  45. sandblower says:

    phil, your ideas are really ridiculous after all.

  46. BSR,
    The only way Romney could help our nation and the majority of Americans is to do complete turn arounds on each and evey one on his positions – which means he would no longer be acceptable to the ding-bat conservacons.

    Before work comes jobs – you know those things the American Corporations keep exporting.

    But GOD and the GOP want all good people to be rich and have the middle class / American Dream you are denigrating.

    I’m betting you would consider yourself ill-used if you had the life that you think Middle Class Americans should have.

    Because the income of the non-rich has declined while that of the greedy-rich has skyrocketed to record levels while their true tax rates have plummeted to the lowest in over 50 years.

    Romney gives millions = luke 20:45 – 21:4

    There are none so blind as those who will not see. Except for you.

    If Romney wins the incentive to work will be outsourced along with our jobs.

    The GOP does see a US default as a finical disaster – which is why they are working so hard to create one so they change America to the Land of the Rich and the Poor.

  47. LeePHill says:

    “CT7 says:
    July 4, 2012 at 4:33 pm So he wanted no central bank in the 18th century. Progressives created the Fed in the 20th.
    These are cute quotes, but you have established nothing, except that you believe in conspiracy theories.”

    Now history is a “conspiracy theory”.

    Gaaaaawd….you can’t make this stuff up. Mr. Malaprop

  48. What has been established negative about the Fed? So far on this thread, zero.

    Independent bankers or pols looking after the money supply, interest rates, etc? Come on. Make some sense Hill!

    For all of the jobs Gov Romney created (Staples to name one brand), you can find a few companies he was loosely tied to the outsourced within the US!!!! Terrible man! The horror!!!

    Now, what business record does BHO have? Oh…

  49. LeePHill says:

    “(Staples to name one brand)”

    Staples is a great example of Romney-style business. Take a concept (office supplies) that has been traditionally a small business, usually family owned and change it to a box store for corporate investors. Less jobs per square foot of space, less talent, less product knowledge, lower wages. Then call it “success”.

  50. CT7 – blind, deaf, and dumnb to anything save fox bat talking points.

  51. So now you are pulling out recycled anti-Walmart talking points. Ha!

    With all your nitpicking, you gloss over the elephant in the room, BHOs own history. Before getting elected as the ‘not Bush’, he did nothing. He never created a job, made a payroll, etc.

  52. Far better to have not created a job than to not create jobs in America!

  53. I wonder if this letter does’t reflect a swort of prelude to the street riots in Europe when folks realized they were no longer going to be supported so they could take month-long holidays?

    When newlywed couples think they “deserve” a new house furnished by Pottery Barn; when brides-to-be flash 2-carat diamonds … I wonder what happened to the days when we began with very little and gradually earned our way up? What happened to the days when there was no shame in getting vocational training as opposed to a liberal arts degree (one that would insure liberal indoctrination for each and every American youngster)? What happened when it was a noble decision to join the military after high school?

    Look down the road folks…what do you see?

  54. sozo – real wages have gone down since 1973

    All this b.s. about how everyone wants more than they did in the old days doesn’t change reality – REAL WAGES HAVE DECREASED SINCE 1973

  55. And why the animosity towards liberal arts degrees?

  56. What is better for America, 1mil lib arts degrees or 1mil engineers?

    Yes, you will whine that we need culture and arts, and I tend to agree. But the scales are tipped way to far in the soft studies.

    How many companies have stated they cannot fill highly skilled positions with Americans because there are not enough qualified applicants?

  57. CT7,
    Point of fact –Founding Fathers feared the power of corporations MORE than authoritarian government, and feared to combination of corporations and government even more.

    Because Liberal Arts degrees teach people how to think on their own rather than to just accept authoritarian proclamations of truth.

    Show Me The Jobs

  58. falkoja6 says:

    Made in China pervades the marketplace on just about everything. GE recently shut down a facility in Wisconsin and pumped 2 Billion $$ into a plant in China to do the very same thing. If given the choice I would buy “Made in USA” regardless of cost. At least somebody in this country was gainfully employed in producing it, earning a living, & paying taxes. If GE or anybody else wants to ship manufacturing to China they should provide for 2 years of financial assistance & training to the people that are displaced. If the Gov’t can tell us what kind of electric light bulbs to use they certainly can put this kind of law into effect.

  59. charliebucket says:

    I think some people are so brainwashed by Fox and Rush they don’t even know what liberal arts means.

    I have a BS in Chemistry from a liberal arts college. it is not ‘soft’ or ‘artsy’. (my degree or the undergraduate college I attended) my roommates/friends from college are : lawyers, nurses, biologists, doctors, engineers, teachers, researchers, IT people, economists, successful business owners etc

    you know some of you ought to just really do some research or something before you post. hating the word liberal or peopel who you think are evil liberals is really not a solid debate position.

    someone asked me above about Obama, I don’t give a rat’s ass what Obama does or doesn’t do wrong or right, sure he has done some things I don’t like and some things I agree with…same with every other President in my lifetime…I care that this country is being divided from the inside by political propaganda and bullshit against citizens and against the current govt based on nothing but nonsense talk and and media hype, by entertainers, for profit. wake up people!

  60. So one radio host and one cable channel are responsible for our current divide, not the guy elected to lead us?

    Grow up, the FNC and conservative radio hatred is just childish.

  61. dtacoma says:

    Amazing responses. What world do most of you live in? For most average income Americans, the math doesn’t add up. Consider my budget: $60k gross; no pension, so minus $9k for 401 contribution. Taxable income is $51k, minus $12k in taxes, leaves an annual net of $38k and change. Divide by 12 equals $3,200 per month. House payment is $1,400, utilities $350. Fuel is $160; health insurance is $450; car insurance $75. Groceries and sundries are $450. Emergency savings $150 per month; entertainment $100; clothes $50, and pharmacy co-pays $40. That’s it folks. The American dream!

    You’ll notice a modest house payment and no car payment. The house payment is about what a two-bedroom apartment would be in a nice neighborhood. No student loan payment. No extravagant vacations or splurging on big screen televisions. We have basic cell phone service with no land line phone, and Click Network’s $40 cable service – which comes out of our $100 entertainment budget.

    So enough of the political mudslinging and deflection. This goes so far beyond petty politics. The middle class is disappearing in this country. You can stick your head in the sand and spout bumper sticker slogans all day long; that doesn’t change the mathematical facts.

  62. Stupidity and greed that send US factories and jobs overseas while slashing US taxes are the root causes of our problems.

  63. Harley, you indicated there is “no plan” but actually there is. Simpson/Bowles is EXACTLY the roadmap we need to get us out of the woods. It is a straightforward plan with concrete ideas, based on real live numbers. Unfortunately, neither party will embrace it. Probably because any politician who does is DOA in terms of us voters. We refuse to take the medicine. Start insisting on Simpson/Bowles and make the politicians make a stand.

  64. jmpurser says:

    As near as I can tell we’re not “supposed to” get the money for those things anymore. We turned a hard Right at Reagan and haven’t looked back. This is what he promised us, though he always said it would just affect “them” and not “us” so we can’t be all that shocked when it finally gets here.

  65. LeePHill says:

    “riots in Europe when folks realized they were no longer going to be supported so they could take month-long holidays?”

    False premise.

    The labor unrest was due to attempts to raise the mandatory retirement age, which would eliminate jobs for younger workers

  66. dtacoma says:

    I think it’s also noteworthy that nowhere in the original letter does the writer say the costs were being shifted from the government (entitlements) onto workers. Again, the Faux News crowd and Rush puppets read what they want to read; hear what they want to hear. Totally oblivious to the facts and reality. They see “entitlement mentality” under every rock.

    The majority of the costs being shifted onto workers are from employers. Pensions no longer offered; health care benefits reduced and employee co-pays are skyrocketing. These used to be part of compensation packages, not government entitlements. These costs are shifting at the same time real wages are stagnating and falling; and while corporate profits are astronomical and CEO pay is through the roof.

    This is not pessimism; it’s just the stark reality for those who wish to see.

  67. charliebucket says:

    no ct, the idiots who listen to and internalize the hatred and propaganda from Fox and right wing hate radio are responsible for the divide.

  68. beerBoy says:

    ct7 – Since the majority of well-paying jobs in America are for creating things rather than being able to follow plans – and a common place complaint from US software manufacturers is that American trained engineers are great at following plans but can’t create anything – it is clear, in your all or nothing b.s. non-choice, the American economy would be much better off with folks who had been trained to think critically and creatively.

    But then…I think you need both the people who create new ideas and the engineers who put them together. And since, it isn’t an all or nothing world (at least in my universe), we can have both.

    btw – I was recruited by MIT and CalPoly based upon my test scores in high school but I chose to go into the arts. Again….it ain’t all or nothing/black or white.

  69. LeePHill says:

    I wonder if Labron James has a degree in Engineering.

  70. Clamat0 says:

    Clamo says – “0bama campaign zombies and their boot-lickers in the MSM (like the Washington Post, for example)”

    Then conveniently references a Washington Post article. So clueless it’s priceless.

    Speaking of “clueless”, I wouldn’t expect mental midgets to be up to date on the news,
    but then even ignoramus’ don’t have to be up on the news… if they’d bothered to actually follow the link.

    The piece I linked was Romney’s rebuttal to the Washington Post Bain Capital hit piece.

    Geez man, buy a “clue”.

  71. Clamat0 says:

    I think some people are so brainwashed by Fox…

    Like whom? You? You seem to be the main FOX-fixation afflicted one here.

    Just wondering, charlie, do you ever compose a post that doesn’t include a disparaging reference to FOX News?

    Obsession is really not a very helpful state – just ask Larry.

  72. charliebucket says:

    I consider it a public service to always point out when right wing propaganda is present clamato…right wing propaganda beamed into living rooms 24/7 disguised as ‘news’. I wonder if people had the guts and the nerve to question propaganda coming from the likes of Hitler if history would have turned out a little different…..

    when a TV station, or talk radio host, spends their entire airtime disparaging a group pf people, be it Jews or, say, liberals…one would hope that more people would catch on to the charade.

    I can hope anyway.


  73. LeePHill says:

    When in doubt, call any media source a “leftist propaganda” or something similar. It will make you feel like their reporting is invalid.

    Meanwhile, as I mentioned a day or so ago, there is a website and bloggers that make their living just debunking FOX and affiliated publications purely on the volume of material provided.

  74. LeePHill says:

    Someone was Vexed or Voxed, I’m not sure which

  75. Ha! MIT wanted me but I went to Idaho. Who cares? Nice try.

    You are asking for personal attacks based on ‘bold’ claims. Come on.

    Imagine you are running a business program, do you want kids interested in ‘Womens Studies’ or accounting and engineering?

    Save it.

  76. beerBoy says:

    OK….if you choose to disbelieve my personal history then the alternative is that my intellectual abilities are demonstration of what an arts education does for all of its students.

    Or…you could believe me when I share that I received unsolicited recruiting letters from MIT and CalPoly after taking the JETS aptitude test the summer between my sophomore and junior years (my parents made me take the test because they wanted to encourage me into a more pragmatic future).

  77. beerBoy says:

    If I need an accountant I hire someone who is trained and experienced in accounting.

    If I need an engineer I hire a trained engineer.

    If I need a visionary….

  78. You hire someone that majored in women’s studies? South American anthropology? Some dead culture? No, you would not.

    Studying a soft art does not make one a visionary, and studying something practical does not make one a robot.

  79. menopaws says:

    Well, Ct7, how did that MBA President work out for this country???? It has always fascinated me that he cooked his books, by NEVER including the war costs in the deficit. Obama included those costs, the deficit ROSE and he got slammed for being honest………….Interesting set of values being pursued by the right…….Ignorance is bliss……….In less that five years, you want to elect the same Wall Street people who picked your pockets the first time…….It’s both scary and very sad……….Honesty is apparently not a big value to the right, is it? Neither is smart.

  80. Can you really throw around insults when writing as you do?

    The old ‘unfunded wars’ crap. It was not budgeted, not hidden or a secret. It was obviously paid for. What a waste of time trying to explain away your 2004 talking point, you do not care about the truth.

  81. CT7 – ‘would I hire’ – that depends on the job and the person. There are two ways to look at a degree.

    First as training for a job – doctor, lawyer, teacher etc.

    Second as training to develop the skills necessary to learn thus enabling a person to learn many jobs.

    Some would say a third way is as training accruing the knowledge to be a good citizen – informed, knowledgeable, and able to form one’s own decisions.

  82. LeePHill says:

    A person that never went to college wouldn’t know that a BA in women’s studies would require all sorts of courses that would provide education and training for jobs, aside from the major subject.

    Many men should know more about women, since they need to interact with them, and do a poor job of it

  83. Most professionals I know in womens studies are also experts in other fields – like philosophy, literature, psychology, sociology, economics, etc.

  84. And….if you want to talk about “soft” disciplines….gotta love Business with all their “what is your color”, pop-psychology, management seminars.

  85. Obama was not the lesser of two evils in 2008, and is not the lesser of two evils in 2012.

    As he was in ’08, he is quite simple, not just the better candidate but the only qualified candidate.

    Speaking of personal histories, I have it on good authority that Aislander drives a beige colored corvette with a vanity plate reading “ISLANDER”.

  86. aislander says:

    xring: Your “authority,” like your ideology, is anything but good. I favor elderly Italian cars and freedom, economic and otherwise…

  87. Aislander,

    The central tenant of my ideology is to protect, defend, and preserve the Nation and Her Citizens.

    ‘aged italian cars’ – what’s the matter with aged American Cars?

    That was one sweet ride I saw, even if the vanity plate read ‘ISLANADER.’

  88. Better qualified? In 08 it was a long serving Senator veteran vs a junior senator/community organizer. Come on.

    In 2012 it is a very successful businessman and governor with a record of working across party lines vs a failed man with good speech writers (even those are starting to fall flat).

  89. The great thing about Mitt – if you disagree with a stance he takes on an issue all you have to do is be patient – he will agree with the opposite side eventually.

We welcome comments. Please keep them civil, short and to the point. ALL CAPS, spam, obscene, profane, abusive and off topic comments will be deleted. Repeat offenders will be blocked. Thanks for taking part and abiding by these simple rules.

JavaScript is required to post comments.

Follow the comments on this post with RSS 2.0