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GAS: Cantwell’s threat paid off

Letter by Doug Benedetti, Puyallup on June 21, 2012 at 3:29 pm with 147 Comments »
June 21, 2012 3:29 pm

All it took was the threat of an investigation to get the price of fuel in our state to drop down toward the national average.

Two weeks ago the price of regular was $4.16 at Costco in Puyallup, well above the national average. Today it’s $3.54 and dropping like a rock. What a difference, thanks to the efforts of Maria Cantwell.

Leave a comment Comments → 147
  1. As long as the “threat” is followed through w/ a full investigation

  2. Or it could be that the supply disruption is in the past, coupled with gas prices falling nationally.

  3. LeePHill says:

    Heh heh.

    I remember when a “concerned Tacoman” was blaming Obama for the high gas prices.

  4. And now prices are going down due to a flatlined economy (yup, BHOs fault) and europe’s implosion (socialism’s fault).

  5. truthbusterguy says:

    Gas was $1.79 a gallon when obummner was put in office. Gas has gone up 100% since obummer took office.


    can’tdoanythingverywell knew the cause of high NW gas. She knew Cherry Point refinery was the cause and once it came back on line fuel prices would drop. It would have been on line sooner but they were installing upgrades that the enviornazis made them do. OK, I will give it to her that she was smart and took advantage of inside information and made it look like her saber rattling was the reason. I am sure it will come out soon that this was just one of her tricks.

    Only a fool is fooled by a foolish woman like cantwell.

    Don’t be a fool.

  6. philichi says:

    Wow, that Maria Cantwell is powerful. Perhaps she can fix the European mess, balance the US budget, and cure cancer while she is at it. Heck, perhaps her and her party could just pass a budget after over 3 years in the senate with no budget.

  7. aislander says:

    Hey I want a piece of this action! I threatened to hold my breath and turn blue unless the sun came up this morning, and GUESS WHAT!

    I’m thinking of starting a church or a political party, or maybe a combination of the two.

    Oh, wait: that exists and is called the Democrat Party and massage parlor…

  8. SadujTogracse says:

    Heh heh.

    I remember when countless individuals were blaming Bush for high gas prices in ’08.

  9. “Today it’s $3.54 and dropping like a rock.”- Doug

    Good point. The proof is in the pudding. Maybe we will see $3.00 soon.

  10. tree_guy says:

    The News Tribune arrives on my doorstep every morning and then the sun comes up.


    The News Tribune is making the sun come up.

  11. LeePHill says:

    Funny how Obama is to blame for high prices and “the market” is the source of the price going down.

    Obama buys gasoline in the United States. The price went up in the United States. It’s Obama’s fault.

  12. Why is diesel still nearly $4.00 here on the west side of the state, when the price in Kittas was $3.69 a week ago? Maria!!!!!

  13. BigSwingingRichard says:

    Dear Doug,

    This is a joke, right? You cannot really believe Cantwell has the power to unilaterally reduce the price of gas, can you?

    Cantwell probably found out when the Cherry Point refinery was scheduled to go back online and timed her letter and press release to fool the idiots who vote Democratic.

    I have always thought the folks who vote Democratic were gullible, uneducated, and easily fooled. Cantwell and Doug have just confirmed my beliefs.


    BigSwingingRichard (R)

  14. LeePHill says:

    “You cannot really believe Cantwell has the power to unilaterally reduce the price of gas, can you?”

    No. Only Obama is powerful enough to raise the price of gasoline, confiscate all the guns in America, stop Christianity from being practiced, make straight people turn gay and make them marry, help thousands of Mexican illegals climb the fence in Arizona and make women need birth control pills.

  15. LeePHill says:

    “The News Tribune is making the sun come up.”

    I wasn’t aware the sun moved

  16. Oil prices are set by the Oil and Gas companies NOT by the President, Congress, or the Govenerment in general.

  17. bobcat1a says:

    Why did Obama suddenly stop making the price of gas go up and make it go down?

  18. Gee CT7 – are you saying that it isn’t the homeowners fault now? Or Fannie and Freddie? I know you don’t think it has anything to do with Speculative Derivatives and the reckless Financial sector that held every country hostage and none stood up to them but Iceland….

  19. What? Are you trying to connect the weakened dollar with oil prices? If so, I am glad you are learning.

    Derivatives and finance sector? Both needed in the modern economy. What is your point, and what does it have to do with prices stabilizing after a supply disruption?

  20. aislander says:

    So…beerBoy…if someone agrees to a mortgage on which he can barely make the payments–if at all–that has an adjustable rate, and the payments go up, THAT person is not responsible?

    I mean is he an adult or isn’t he?

  21. A tenet of liberalism is protecting people from themselves, not realizing that in the end of the day over regulation only hurts those they are trying to help. When it fails, they blame anyone but the guilty party.

  22. LeePHill says:

    Where do you copy and paste that stuff, CT7?

    It doesn’t have to be in context, but you post it.

    Oh, I forgot, context doesn’t matter to you.

  23. LeePHill says:

    A couple weeks ago, the price of gasoline was Obama’s fault in CT7’s comments.

    Now it’s the “tenet of liberalism”.

    Funny how the tune changes.

  24. LeePHill says:

    “if someone agrees to a mortgage on which he can barely make the payment”

    And the lender had nothing to do with that???????????????

  25. That last comment shows how far into left field the martini guy is.

  26. averageJoseph says:

    LMAO… a couple weeks ago the libs here were bragging how gas prices everywhere else were dropping and now they want to claim a belated threat by a lame-do-nothing senator actually caused Washington gas prices to follow the rest of the nation… yep… kooky.

  27. tommy98466 says:

    Doug… Cantwell didn’t do anyhing to lower the price of gas. Its a supply and demand situation. You wern’t trying to give her credit for this because she’s running again are you? Typical supporter of a liberal. Pathetic.

  28. SadujTogracse says:

    In the summer of ’08 the high price of gasoline was Bush’s fault. Now it’s “oil speculators”.

    Funny how the tune changes.

  29. SadujTogracse says:

    Are the lenders forcing people at gunpoint to sign for more home than they can afford and adjustable interest rates that will greatly increase their payments in a few years?

    Yeah, didn’t think so either.

  30. When all that money jugears printed up hits the open economy, the price of gas will double. Where is all that money? Floating around in the sovereign debt derivatives market.

    But when the economy starts recovering, there will be inflation. A lot of it. Unfortunately, gasoline goes stale so it cannot be stockpiled for very long.

  31. aislander says:

    You’ve got it pgroup. Buy gold…

  32. LeePHill says:

    It appears that CT7 is another one of those conservatives that thinks the CRA demands that banks lend to high risk people.

    How many people have been fooled by that lie? It seems to run like wildfire on conservative blogs on the internet.

    Banks have the right to refuse anyone that isn’t credit worthy.

    Considering it’s THEIR risk and THEY are the ones that stand to lose, you’d think that they’d not want defaults….UNLESS….the default is insured, so that the bank can’t lose, no matter what.

  33. LeePHill says:

    Thank you, Senator Cantwell!


  34. Wait, what % of loans end up backed by the govt? Who owns the risk?

    Epic fail. This is what progressives asked for…

  35. Hill has a little obsession with me. I would be honored under most circumstances, but he is just creepy.

    Facts Hill! Keep it to the facts! This blog is not about you or I.

    Look at the top of your browser for guidance.

  36. In the summer of ’08 the high price of gasoline was Bush’s fault. Now it’s “oil speculators”.

    Funny how the tune changes.

    Oh I see….”Bush isn’t the President” only applies to posters from the Left.

  37. If it is a supply/demand thing then one would expect prices to have fallen significantly in Idaho – they haven’t.

    Youse guys keep talking about how government impacts the Market but fall back on supply/demand as being the only source when a threat from government appears to have made an impact.

  38. Chippert says:

    Hey truthbuster, why do you think gas was $1.79 when President Obama took office? Because the economy was in the tank, flat-lined, totally busted due to King George B’s disastrous reign! Go ahead and bust some other truths.

  39. truthbusterguy says:


    We are all gtting tired of you libs blaming Bush for everything wrong that is obama. Your team needs some new material.

    Your boy will not win when his platform is: blame bush or “it could have been worse”.

    obmama and his policies drove us further in the ditch and he is history in Nov. Get used to it.

  40. “Or it could be that the supply disruption is in the past, coupled with gas prices falling nationally.”

    Now, will you be grown up enough to say this when the price goes up again or will you blame President Obama, like you did a few weeks ago?

  41. “Your team needs some new material.”

    Todays hypocrisy moment.

  42. Wow, Maria Cantdoanythingwell made gas prices go down by threatening an investigation?

    Think of what she could do for us if she “threatened” an investigation of the IRS!!!!

  43. “But when the economy starts recovering, there will be inflation. A lot of it.”

    And you brilliant economists on the far right have been predicting that, and higher taxes, for the last 4 years…..wonder why everyone laughs at you?

    Face it, conservatives have proven over and over they know nothing about the economy or economics.

  44. “A tenet of liberalism is protecting people from themselves, not realizing that in the end of the day over regulation only hurts those they are trying to help. When it fails, they blame anyone but the guilty party.”

    Even with her new name ct7 is still 180 degrees out from reality.

  45. “obmama and his policies drove us further in the ditch”

    Could that be the ditch that he inherited, truthy?

  46. Chippert says:

    I find it ironic that the fascists, I mean ultra-conservatives, spent years telling us how evil the Europeans were and now that the Euros have embraced the Repubs mantra of austerity for the poor and greed for the rich, they are not running with open arms to them. Let’s consider, shall we? Austerity = 17% unemployment, crashed economies. “Liberals” spending to revive the economy, reduction of taxes on the middle class and poor, tax the rich = 8% unemployment and a recovery (albeit slowly) of the economy.

  47. rooster_02 says:

    Gasoline was an average of $4.00 per gallon in the summer of 2008.

  48. rooster_02 says:

    Truthbusterguy is either lying or incapable of conducting research.. Gasoline was over $4.00. per gallon on average in the US during the summer of 2008. That is a fact. Look it up. Gasoline was $1.39 per gallon in Tacoma at the beginning of the Iraq war. That is also a fact.

    The right wing mantra is…..When the FACTS don’t support your argument….change the facts.

  49. Uhh, rooster, I don’t think President Bush left office in “the summer of 2008″, though many morons would have wished it so.

    You might want to check gas price averages on January 20, 2009 – the day Obama was inaugurated… which is what tbg said.

  50. And yet another Maria Cantwell success.

    Tacoma gets $7.7 million to keep 37 firefighters

    Read more here: http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/06/22/2190437/city-gets-77-million-to-keep-37.html#storylink=cpy

  51. Cantwell has been a wonderful asset to the state of Wa & to the USA as a whole. That said, we still need the investigation & JAIL SENTENCES for culpable oil co execs. There’s no question that the timing of this proves the fix was on.

    & the GOP spends my money investigating Baseball players.

  52. Chip- please point out which countries have actually implemented austerity measures. I think you will surprise yourself.

  53. Chippert says:

    CT7: Greece, Ireland, Spain have all implemented austerity measures. It does not appear to be working in any of them. You are right, I surprised myself by knowing that.

  54. LeePHill says:

    Please be aware that all claims made by conservatives only have to be validated for one day to be “true”.

    For instance – “unemployment is higher today than the day Obama took over”.

    Which means “Obama wasn’t able to dam the flood of job loss immediately”

    It’s a game they play with other ignorant conservatives that buy into those statements.

  55. SadujTogracse says:

    Early in 2009 Obama said this, and I quote..“I will be held accountable. You know, I’ve got four years. … A year from now, I think people are gonna see that we’re starting to make some progress, but there’s still gonna be some pain out there. If I don’t have this done in three years, then there’s gonna be a one-term proposition.”

    Now here we are over 3 years later and the major economic indices I cited earlier are all true (including the unemployment figures). They are worse than when he took office. All I’m doing is holding Obama accountable to his own words, other people are just making excuses for him.

  56. Thank you, Senator

  57. aislander says:

    It is beyond funny seeing the adherents of the religion of government and liberalism posting their ave Marias

  58. SandraKirstan says:

    Thanks to Senator Maria Cantwell for her service

  59. When did they implement those measures? After their socialism bankrupted them.

    Germans are keeping Europe afloat.

    Look at Estonia. Acting in time, country is booming.

  60. mojjonation says:

    Why is it that when Governor Queen Christine threatened to “get to the bottom of gas prices” several years ago, nothing happened. It was a dog and pony show that impressed a limited number of lemmings to maintain the status quo. Now Cantwell, a Senator, mentions it and gas prices drop. Total joke.

    There are those who will do nothing more than blame the president for everything wrong, and point to themselves when everything is right. Those same people are probably ones who shouldn’t be the first to throw stones. I guess it’s OK as long as enough people know how things really work. We need the entertainment on a wet and gray Friday.

  61. Tommy – what is truly pathetic is you right-wind rug-rats spending all your time blame high gas prices on Obama and the Government and not trying to usurp the liberal/progressive argument that gas prices are set by the OIl and Gas Companies.

    pgroup and islander – ‘printed up money’ – you two are not only pathetic you are pathetically stupid.

    Where is your proof that the Fed is printing up more money?

    TBG – not as mad as we progressives are at you zombies excusing Bush and blaming every thing on Obama – especially things the happened or began under Bush.

    What drove us into the ditch was Bush’s failed policies and what is keeping us there is the GOP’s attempts to double down on those same failed policies and their overall plan to make Obama a one term president – even (especially) if doing so destroys the US economy.


    Have all tried austerity and most have rejected it.

  62. SadujTogracse says:

    Germany has rejected austerity? REALLY???? You may want to inform Chancellor Merkel of that…

    The German Chancellor Angela Merkel said she finds it “astonishing” that her pro-austerity stance is the cause of controversy, as Germany found itself increasingly isolated on the issue of eurobonds ahead of Wednesday’s European Union leaders summit.

    “The German Chancellor said that the current debate in Europe and beyond “gives the impression that, for us, saving, as such, is pleasurable”.

    “It’s just about not spending more than you collect. It’s astonishing that this simple fact leads to such debates,” she said in a speech in Berlin.”

    Oh and “trying” austerity for a couple of years after decades upon decades of spending way beyond your means is like attempting to bail out the Titanic with a thimble.

  63. SandraKirstan says:

    Europe is better than the United States

  64. Look at Estonia. With a population of 1.29 million…..

    A better model is Iceland:
    Relative to the size of its economy, Iceland’s banking collapse is the largest suffered by any country in economic history……

    What Iceland Did

    Governments around the world bailed out their financial sectors. The US government bought stakes in key banks and lent them money. Britain nationalised RBS, assuming all its debts. Ireland guaranteed all the debts of its six largest banks.

    However, Iceland took a different tack. The government declared that it would only save domestic bank account holders – everyone else would have to fight over the remaining assets.

    It also refused to pay foreign governments for the cost of compensating retail depositors in foreign subsidiaries of Iceland’s banks. Although a deal that would have paid the debts, over a longer schedule, was nearly agreed twice, it finally collapse due to public opposition.

    Meanwhile, instead of trying to prop up its currency, Iceland let the value of the krona more than halve. It also imposed capital controls to prevent money leaving the country.
    ter the initial plunge, the Icelandic economy has started to grow strongly again: GDP has grown by 6.9% since the second quarter of 2010.

    On top of that, the decision not to bail out the banks has meant that debt/GDP levels peaked at an acceptable 100% of GDP, and are set to fall. By contrast, the Greek bail-out deal is hoping to achieve a debt-to-GDP ratio of 120% by 2020 – and that’s the best-case scenario.

  65. Funny that you use Finland as a model, yet reject others…

  66. SandraKirstan says:

    better than where your azz is

  67. CT7 – deal with the present thread and my most recent post.

  68. aislander says:

    LeePHill writes: “And the lender had nothing to do with that???????????????”

    That was written about a borrower who takes on a mortgage with an ARM on which he can barely make a payment at the starting rate.

    I’ve GOT to deconstruct this!

    In order to sign a contract, one must be an adult, so the borrower had to be one. If adults aren’t competent to avoid signing contracts that are not in their best interests, what’s the point in waiting until then? Let twelve-year-olds obligate themselves in that way.

    But that’s the point. Many adults have been infantilized by governments that seek to eliminate all risks and all personal responsibility. That’s the other side of the equality coin, where the rewards of taking risks are themselves at risk.

    Did the lender have a responsibility not to make a risky loan? Yes–to himself, but Fannie Mae was underwriting the risk so the lender was shielded–by government–from the repercussions of his folly.

    In this whole chain, government, in trying to eliminate risk, caused people to act in ways they never would if they knew they would be responsible for their actions…

  69. SandraKirstan says:

    Does the lender decide who to lend to and what the terms are?

  70. aislander says:

    Sure, but the borrower also has to decide if he can afford to pay back the loan…

  71. SandraKirstan says:

    Does the lender qualify the borrower?

  72. aislander says:

    He’s supposed to, but since the risk has been removed by FannieMae, he has no reason to…

  73. aislander says:

    Got that, k****r?

  74. A lender nor a borrower be,

  75. SandraKirstan says:

    my lender required me to guarantee the loan with insurance and I still had to qualify.

    have you ever had a mortage? you sound sort of inexperienced

  76. aislander says:

    Why bother with insurance when Fannie is already guaranteeing? Besides, we’re not discussing a specific loan, but rather principles.

    Get outta here, kid, you’re bothering me.

    By, k****r…

  77. SandraKirstan says:

    As I thought. Never had a mortgage

  78. bobcat1a says:

    Aislander believes in the mantra of big business, “privatize profit and socialize risk.”

  79. MarksonofDarwin says:


    I thought you explained the Freddie/Fannie moral hazard quite nicley.
    You have more patience than I, and gave it your best shot. There are many who are willfully obtuse or just plain too simple minded to understand. You will never have any meaningful exchange from someone who is so dishonest in their dialog.

    So, as to your personal responsibility….it’s not your fault!

  80. SK- the Fed, more then the bank, sets the rate for the average loan.

  81. Bb- nice deflection. You have whined that population size makes no difference, now it does.

    Ad what does Iceland’s bailouts have to do with anything? Austerity? Ok, you hate bank bailouts. Point?

  82. Hey, Maria had to get herself in the headlines somehow. Don’t drink the koolaid Doug.

  83. aislander says:

    I didn’t see any point in pursuing the conversation with the annoying new alt, but I wasn’t required to buy mortgage insurance on the summer house I inherited upon the death of my mother against which I took a small loan for business purposes. That’s all the PERSONAL experience I have with mortgages.

    As I understand it, mortgage insurance IS required if the lender perceives the loan to be a larger than average risk. My loan didn’t constitute such a risk…

  84. aislander says:

    bobcat1a writes: “Aislander believes in the mantra of big business, ‘privatize profit and socialize risk.’”

    Did you just want an opportunity to use that cliche’, bobcat; because it certainly doesn’t pertain to anything I posted.

    I thought I made it clear that both borrowers AND lenders should bear responsibility for their actions. Lenders would pay a lot stricter attention to the qualifications of borrowers if they knew they would be left holding the bag.

    That is hardly advocating for the “socialization of risk.”

  85. normajean says:

    Someone mentioned that the price of gas had to do with supply and demand. Does that mean that the demand for gas in the state of NY is less than the demand for gas in the state of WA. It would be naive of anyone to believe that the price is solely regulated by S & D. Price goes up on weekends, holidays etc. Does that mean that there is a much greater demand for gas on a Saturday resulting in higher gas prices across the board? I do believe that the corporations over compensate for any possible irregularities to justify a price increase. I believe it is time to nationalize the corps. Their hugh profits sh not be generated on the backs of simple Joe’s trying to earn a living.

  86. CT7 “whined”

    If you want a civil conversation with me you need to behave.

  87. LeePHill says:

    “aislander says:
    June 22, 2012 at 10:57 pm I didn’t see any point in pursuing the conversation with the annoying new alt, but I wasn’t required to buy mortgage insurance on the summer house I inherited upon the death of my mother against which I took a small loan for business purposes. That’s all the PERSONAL experience I have with mortgages.”

    Well…aside from the obvious paranoia from the “boogeyperson” (someone that nailed Mr. Jello to the wall), I see that aislander is a part of second generation “I got mine”. No real surprises here.

    When you take a “small loan” against real estate, there is no insurance on the loan, as the debt is usually well below the value of the asset, so a default means a windfall for the lender.

    People that have dealt with real mortages know this. People who have been handed everything in their lives don’t.

  88. LeePHill says:

    beerBoy – without hyperbole and insults, CT7 is nothing

  89. SwordofPerseus says:

    Beerboy says-“A better model is Iceland:”

    Conc says-“Funny that you use Finland as a model, yet reject others…”

    Conc-European countries have many similar sounding names, I suggest you pull your head and maps out and try to differentiate between Finland, (Northwest of Russian border, East of Sweden) and Iceland (middle of North Atlantic Ocean) and then look carefully at the example. An example which has had favorable results, as opposed the ridiculous ideas proposed by so-called conservatives, aka republicons…honestly it is like trying to explain the rings of Saturn to ants.

  90. SwordofPerseus says:

    Dear Normajean(nice handle btw)-That kind of talk will generate a hail of insults from the neo-cons who troll this bbs. I agree with you, in the name of National Security, we would be much safer if we nationalized the banks and the energy companies, just as a matter of security…

    NOTE: trolls; look up definition of security before you post your moronic diatribes.

  91. SwordofPerseus says:

    Serious question, CT7, do you know what the FED is? Explain it to us what the FED does, who they are and why they do it? Waiting…

  92. LeePHill says:

    Sword – they don’t provide a copy and paste dictionary

  93. aislander says:

    Second generation? You insult me, sir! How many generations does it take to go all the way back to the first governor of the colony of Virginia?

    Actually the little story about my mortgage may or may not be true (same with that third sentence above), but it DID provoke the response from Sir Knee of the Jerk that I expected it would…

  94. DougBenedetti says:

    OMG! What a mess.

    To those of you who commented on the price of gas, thanks for staying on topic. If you want to discuss mortgages maybe you should write a letter of your own so that you can discuss your Fannie and your Freddie somewhere where you CAN stay on topic.

    If you are among those who think that the market dictated the higher than average price of fuel in Western Washington, and that the suppliers didn’t artificially jack up the price, thereby creating windfall profits, how do you explain the effect of supply and demand considering that there seemed to be enough fuel to go around and the demand didn’t significantly change? There were no shortages. What justified the extra expense other than 60, 70, or 80 cents per gallon more profit?

    What makes you so sure that the threat of an investigation didn’t cause prices to suddenly take a dive?

  95. LeePHill says:

    aislander – so are you changing your story because it’s apparent that you don’t have any real mortage experience? Oh…I see “may or may not”…thus you could have lied.

    Well, no real surprise there either.

    Those who have worked for what they have respect the working class. Your behavior gave you away long before this dialog.

    Just curious – for someone who usually has his theasaurus nearby, explain how reacting to what someone said is “knee jerk”. In the future, should I just expect everything you say to be false?

  96. LeePHill says:

    Doug – the diversion to mortgages is to not acknowledge that the actions of a Democrat could have anything to do with holding the industry’s feet to the fire.

    They are great at blaming President Obama for “high gas prices”, but are unwilling to acknowledge that the industry (locally for sure) has a handle on fixing prices and reacted to the possibility of being exposed. They’ll tell you that you are being silly and then tell you that the President wasn’t born in the US in the next sentence.

    As to “supply and demand”, and their normal chant of “drill baby drill”, drilling has increased in the United States since Obama took office, but the conservatives refuse to acknowledge that as well.

    I don’t know if your assertion is correct or not, but I’m not willing to forgoe all attention directed at the possibilities of price fixing.

  97. aislander says:

    There have been ACTUAL investigations by OTHER grandstanding Democrats just about every time gasoline prices have spiked, and, every time, they found NO wrongdoing.

    That was for the benefit of any RATIONAL people on this forum, not the committed lefties (who should be committed, since the ideology has been around at least since Bismarck and still doesn’t work, but they keep trying…).

  98. SoP- Since you need help, http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_Bank

    My reference of Finland to bb was from another topic a few weeks back. You see, bb thinks country have to meet a population threshold to look at them as models for policy, even though he preached the exact opposite. Got real defensive when I simply pointed out his own comments.

    Back to rates, you do not agree that for the average loan, the fed play a huge role in setting that rate?

  99. I really believe the sad truth is,Obama will be Reelected and I predict the United States will continue the slide downhill until the citizens will be lower than all the third world countries.My prediction is the legacy that Obama will leave is, that he was the worse President that ever ruled the American people.

  100. LeePHill says:

    sincere is one more republican that believes a criminal is better than President Obama. Of course, that is to be expected from a Republican.

  101. LeePHill says:

    Sincere – do third world counties have record setting stock markets?

  102. took14theteam says:

    Larry, you are the only one that brings up the statement about Obama not being born in America. But it is just part of your blog MO.

    Throw turds in the punch bowl, then go away and log in under another moniker to continue with the irritation.

    Comedy Gold that was for ehill) ;-)

    You tickling the ivory tonight so we can see less wallpaper till the am?

  103. Emerging markets boom and bust just like ours. What are you talking about?

  104. LeePHill says:

    “you are the only one that brings up the statement about Obama not being born in America.”

    Orly Taitz is blogging on here????????? No…wait…Donald Trump is here.

    “CT7 says:
    June 23, 2012 at 5:15 pm Emerging markets boom and bust just like ours. What are you talking about?”

    A classic. Doesn’t have a clue as to what I’m talking about , but knows I’m wrong. LOL

  105. aislander says:

    Orly Taitz? It IS mucky!

    If CT7 “doesn’t have a clue what you’re talking about,” neither does anyone else, including your fine self…

  106. took14theteam says:

    Let’s recap.

    When an evil republican is president and the price of gas rises, it is that president’s fault.
    When the price of gas falls under said evil republican president, it is because he tanked the economy.

    When the price of gas rises under the immaculate chosen democrat president, it is the fault of “Big Oil” (TM).
    When the price of gas falls under said immaculate chosen democrat president, it is because he did something.

    _Hill Comedy Gold.

  107. Adding to the comedy act, I asked for clarification. Hill assumed he was wrong.

  108. SandraKirstan says:

    Senator Cantwell scared the oil companies

  109. aislander says:

    GOOD k****r! Here’s your milkbone…

  110. CT7 – nope, wrong as usual. I referenced Finland because I had just gotten back from being there for work for a month. They do have socialized medicine and education that works, very little poverty, a higher standard of living than the US and more upward mobility than the US but, when it comes to the worldwide Bank crisis I believe that Iceland – which is the only country that stood up to the bank’s blackmail – seems to be important to look at.

    Your problem is you keep looking at symptoms and not seeing the underlying causes.

  111. LeePHill says:

    beerBoy….but do they have FOX News to tell them how to think?

  112. LeePHill says:

    Well, I need to fess up.

    Aislander is far too smart. I am RLMuck, as aislander suspects.

    I wonder how he got so smart to figure out this stuff? He is really a step ahead of the rest of us, isn’t he?

  113. aislander says:

    I meant mucky in the sense of the adjectival form of muck:

       [muhk] Show IPA
    1. moist farmyard dung, decaying vegetable matter, etc.; manure.
    2. a highly organic, dark or black soil, less than 50 percent combustible, often used as a manure.
    3. mire; mud.
    4. filth, dirt, or slime.
    5. defamatory or sullying remarks.

    …not your former moniker.

  114. Hill, after the many monikers you have used, why would you be surprised if you were accused of being some other leftist wacko? You enjoy it. We know you are not muckster, he was well versed on the Bible. So far you have demonstrated an understanding of wedding singer industry. Beyond that nothing.

    Bb- with the exception of Ireland, who else could have acted like Iceland? And looking at Europe, I cannot believe an educated man would think socialism is A) good, B) remotely sustainable in America. A small resource based economy vs America. Come on. They do have some freeloaders, I am sure (from an ethnicity destroying Europe), but we have a larger problem. We innovate and lead the world. Why follow failed models? Every argument the left can give is emotional. A class of people like it for the freeloading nature of socialized goods. Eventually the people slow and produce less, the motivation dies out and you are left broke as nation. Some system. Next step is a ‘savior’ comes in, well, you know how it goes…

  115. CT7 – since “socialism” isn’t even less accurately defined for your side than “liberal” (or “conservative”) there really is no point in discussing this with you…or anyone on either.’

    Black and white dichotomies may be great to rally the ignorant masses but they aren’t all that helpful for real world applications.

  116. “…anyone else either”

  117. So define it in a way that makes it acceptable and in accordance with the Constitution, our greatness, our Founder’s intent, and sustainable?

    Sorry, but it is the left trying to change definitions. Socialism by another definition is still socialism. With the exceptions of the far far left, the average American does not want socialism here. So spin on..

  118. LeePHill says:

    Aislander is far smarter than CT7

  119. Probably is.

  120. blakeshouse says:

    now if we can only get her to threaten her own suicide and carry it out. THE WORLD WOULD BE A MUCH BETTER PLACE

  121. I guess you don’t like socialist garbage collection, socialist sewer systems, socialist roads, socialist fire departments, socialist police forces, socialist military, social security, medicare, etc, etc, etc, that we have in American cities all over the country because “Socialism by another definition is still socialism. With the exceptions of the far far left, the average American does not want socialism here.”

  122. Free college vs essential services to keep a society running? Come on. The socialism you are talking about refers to individual payments and benefits, not services used by all. No, I am not a huge fan of Medicare.

    Benefit all vs benefit the individual. You will stretch the term that if we send everybody to college it raises everyone, but we cannot afford it, and your rising tide sinks the ship.

    All of this ignores the elephant in the room, our debt. We cannot pay for today’s seniors bennies without borrowing from China.

  123. Yep…we don’t need no college to run those smart bombs! And we can always buy them from another country that knows how to build them!

  124. Again – you are confusing the symptom for the underlying cause.

    We can’t pay today’s seniors bennies without borrowing from China is a symptom.

  125. aislander says:

    Oh, c’mon beerBoy. YOU know that those services for which we all pay and from which we all benefit do not constitute socialism, and to conflate those things with transfer payments and redistributionist schemes is a cynical ploy designed to mislead…

    As for LPH’s assertion re CT7: I do not believe that to be true.

  126. Symptom of what? Entitlements gone crazy. Spending out of control. Govt inefficiency. Promises of free stuff to seniors (for votes).

  127. It’s socialism only if it helps those in need. If it helps those who don’t need it than it isn’t socialism.

  128. Sure, emotion. Describe a system than only helps the needy- be practical.

  129. Bandito tried to describe charity. No one chimed in to help. Govt’s role? Not the definition of
    Socialism either way. Socialism is about spreading responsiblity.

  130. YOU know that those services for which we all pay and from which we all benefit do not constitute socialism,

    Wow…..I’ve always thought ideological blindness was metaphoric but, in your case, it appears you just can’t see.

    The services I listed are all provided by government rather than private industry and therefore fall under the category of socialism. Just because you are used to them and understand that these services are non-threatening and improve the value of everyone’s life doesn’t change that reality.

  131. Definition of SOCIALISM- Merriam-Webster.com

    1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
    2a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
    2b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
    3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

    Definition of CHARITY- Merriam-Webster.com

    1: benevolent goodwill toward or love of humanity
    2a: generosity and helpfulness especially toward the needy or suffering; also : aid given to those in need
    2b: an institution engaged in relief of the poor
    2c: public provision for the relief of the needy
    3a: a gift for public benevolent purposes
    3b: an institution (as a hospital) founded by such a gift
    4: lenient judgment of others

    So, because we as a society provide for the relief of the needy, we are charitable, but not socialist by definition.
    And, because, we as a society, share responsibility for our own collective benefit and well-being, we are cooperative in nature, but not socialist by definition.

  132. DougBenedetti says:

    The price at the Puyallup Costco is now $3.44 per gallon, down another 10 cents. They are doing everything they can to avoid an investigation.

  133. LeePHill says:

    Trying to teach CT7 to avoid hyperbole is like trying to teach a jellyfish to dance

  134. Wow, real witty Hill. Thanks for showing up.

    Bandito, should charity be a function of govt? Also, SS and Medicare do not only go to the “needy”.

  135. Doug- Costco Puyallup is still 3.54. Tacoma is 3.44.

  136. aislander says:

    So…beerBoy: Police and fire protection and infrastructure are “means of production?”

    As the philosopher averageJoe would say: Kooky!

  137. Medicine is “means of production”? Retirement is “means of production”? Education is “means of production”?

    Hoist on your own teeny-tiny nitpicking petard.

    For the less than swift – the Right has been screaming “socialism/marxism” about Obama primarily about “Obamacare” providing socialized-lite medical coverage. So…..if those other services that you approve of being provided by the government can’t be called SOCIALISM than neither can Health insurance which has nothing to do with “means of production”.

  138. aislander says:

    Sorry, beerBoy, but health insurance and health care ARE wealth-producing sectors of the economy. If government takes them over, that is governmental control of the means of production: i.e., socialism.

    Police, fire protection, and infrastructure are–for want of a better term–wealth-facilitation sectors, rather than wealth producing…

  139. Wait, I thought one welfare dollar made $1.71 dollars of economic activity? All govt spending (except military of course) expands the economy, debt be damned.

    Bb- in a straight answer, can you clearly state whether you think the US should become a socialist nation like France or embrace the limited central govt model our Framers intended?

  140. aislander – cute parsing….too bad it doesn’t work.

    Private military (Xe), private prisons, private schools, private security, private police force (there is at least one US town that went that way), etc all exist in a capitalist market because, presumably, they are wealth producing entities. Your distinction doesn’t hold up.

  141. CT7 – in a straight answer, can you clearly state that you no long beat your wife?

    C’mon….stop it with these false choices. I never said I wanted the US to be France. And that originalist bullcrap sounds great except when you realize that it is just a load of fertilizer that judicial activists like Alioto claim to rationalize their ideological decisions that oftentimes have very little connection to a consistent interpretation of the Constitution.

  142. not wealth producing, but wealth redistribution upward.

    The concept of ‘earning wealth is very misleading.
    People earn MONEY, not wealth.

  143. aislander says:

    beerBoy: Thank you! Your 7:03AM post is an excellent argument for contracting government.

    I mean if private entities can do the same jobs and produce rather than consume wealth, well…

  144. aislander says:

    xring: People create wealth. Creating money without creating the wealth to give value to the money gives you Zimbabwe or Weimar…

    That’s why the private sector can exist (in a perilous state) without government, but government can’t exist without the private sector–unless it takes over the private sector, but that doesn’t work for long

  145. So now aislander is arguing with Ben Franklin’s opinion about the need for socialized fire departments…..

  146. aislander says:

    As you know, beerBoy, I like to keep an open mind…

  147. DougBenedetti says:

    If you had an open mind you would realize that we are nowhere near socialism in this country. If you had an open mind you might even begin to understand that our government is only floundering because Republicans as well as Democrats are unwilling to compromise as they used to. But mostly you might just give Maria Cantwell credit for lowering our gas prices. But you won’t because your mind is closed shut, musty and moldy lacking the light of day. You’re surrounded in darkness, old man, stagnant.

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