Letters to the Editor

Your views in 200 words or less

LABOR: Lesson learned from Wisconsin

Letter by Jerry E. Gibbs, Gig Harbor on June 6, 2012 at 10:40 am with 99 Comments »
June 6, 2012 11:09 am

The election in Wisconsin is over. I hope wounds heal and the state keeps moving in the right direction toward fiscal responsibility and fairness to taxpayers.

I believe we may be too blue a state to end collective bargaining, but other parts of Wisconsin’s union reforms should be considered by the Washington state Legislature and governor.

The fact that state worker dues are mandatory and collected by the state doesn’t pass the smell test. Presently taxpayers pay the administrative cost to collect these dues and send the dollars to the unions. State worker unions in turn donate that money to help elect the same politicians they bargain with for wages and benefits.

This sounds like quid pro quo to me and explains why we are in budget trouble with state worker pay and the costs of benefits and legacy retirement.

We must ask the Legislature why taxpayers should pay the administrative costs to collect these dues. What is so wrong with asking the unions to collect their own dues? If public sector unions are doing a good job for their members they will continue to send in the dues.

The federal government figured this out in 1978 when the Civil Service Reform act was passed by a Democratic administration, and the federal government stopped collecting dues for the unions. It’s time Washington state have this discussion.

Leave a comment Comments → 99
  1. philichi says:

    The good news here is that our state, California, and illinois and every other will eventually get real. They will have to. As other states throw off their union shacles, their bond ratings will rise, their interst rates will go down. The unions and their thug bosses will eventually leave town in the middle of the night. The state workers will be left not having to pay these silly union dues. It is not a matter of if, just when.

  2. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    Apparently, all of the lefties agree with you now, Matt.

    There seems to be a deafening lack of commentary from the usual loony-lefty suspects on the subject of Wisconsin.

    Foot-in-mouth disease?

  3. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Give it a few hours for them to get the spin right. We already heard excuses (robo-calls), and the exit poll junk stating they all would vote for BHO.

    The recall should never of happened. They (leftists/unions) wasted time and effort. End of the day the state is better off because of the Walker reforms. Washington (state and DC) need to learn a thing or two from him on fiscal reality. They also need to learn the voters are sick of the fraud and waste of unions, public sector to be specific.

  4. concernedtacoma7 says:

    As to the claim of robo-calls, curious if the leftists here change their tune on voter knowledge. They slammed those who felt hoodwinked on the liquor business, now claim it was reasonable for voters to think a signature outside a mall was a vote.

  5. Fibonacci says:

    Why is it that those who don’t want to pay union dues are right there with their hand out accepting what ever the union has bargained for them. How about this, if you choose to not pay union dues then you are not eligible for what the union gets for the workers?

    I am not a member of any union but I never cease to wonder at the hate the right has for them. “The unions and their thug bosses”—wow how overly dramatic. God forbid that the little guy should have some collective power to try in any way shape or form to have their say in politics. We all know that only the right wing has the right to influence politicians. After all, companies are now people.

  6. alindasue says:

    Then there are those of us who think the whole “leftist” and “rightist” conversation is divisive and counter-productive to finding any real solutions to our economic problems…

  7. truthbusterguy says:

    Fibonacci

    You must have gone to a government school and failed reading. The letters doesn’t address the end of collective bargaining only advocates for the unions to collect their own dues. What’s wrong with that?

    Unions are a fact of life but don’t use my tax dollars to collect and administer their dues. To do so is a conflict of interest and leads to corruption. This practice teams the unions and the state against the tax payers and creates a conflict of interest in their relationship. Democrats pass these laws because it’s how they guarantee a steady flow of contributions (against the will of many state workers) to democrat party. Tell me this is not corrupt.

  8. roussir says:

    A public employee, union member here.

    I don’t see the problem with the state providing the “processing” (as presented; I admit I don’t know the details) as a benefit, as any other benefit, transparently negotiated with the union.

    Also, I understand that you, as my employers, would like my compensation reduced, and I accept that. I do not accept reducing my rights to associate and negotiate for a fair compensation; you have no moral (and, AFAIK, constitutional) basis to require this. The argument that public employee unions are somehow more systematically harmful than any other lobbying entity, is ridiculous. If you want to eliminate lobbying from unions, then eliminate all lobbying. Otherwise, you are preaching inequality.

  9. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    Don’t forget how “Walker outspent Barrett by 7 -1″ (never mind that the final numbers aren’t in, and there’s strong suspicion that Barrett actually got/ spent more than is currently being reported) while conveniently ignoring the fact that 0bama outspent McCain by a margin of 3-1 overall, and upwards of 7-1 in the election-deciding swing states in the ’08 election.

    But in the mind of a liberal, what’s good for the goose is only what their goose gets.

    Then there’s the “we regained control of the WI Senate” crow. Talk about a pyrrhic victory. Never mind that the results haven’t been certified, and there will likely be a recount (less than 800 votes separate right now), the 18 million dollar cost of this election comes right off the top of Walker’s 153 million projected surplus (another thing they conveniently ignore), and it means absolutely nothing since Republicans still control the governor’s office and the Assembly. That means if Democrats get the Senate, state government would plunge into gridlock. But here’s the kicker; the Legislature isn’t scheduled to convene again until January, and whoever wins the majority in the recalls will have to defend it before then in the November election.

    Like nearly everything else liberals support, this was a gigantic waste of time and taxpayer money… not to mention liberal pride – of which they have obviously none.

    Spin away lefties.

  10. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    roussir, I read the LTE as an argument against two things:

    1) State picking up the cost of accounting and disbursement of of union dues, which would not be typical in the private sector, and
    2) The stench of quid-pro-quo (especially in this and other “blue” states) associated with the practice of public employees negotiating union contracts with and for other public employees. It makes a mockery out of the whole idea of collective bargaining and bargaining in good faith when you have two parties in the public sector who basically share common interests (never mind political philosophy) as opposed to the private sector where bargaining between labor and management occurs between two parties with both common as well as divergent interests.

  11. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Ok Alindasue, we will take the right/left out of it. Did YOU not blast voters for being uniformed? Does thinking that signing a petition means one voted equals uniformed?

    The Wisconsin race was a left/right vote. Unions vs fiscal responsibility. Voters went for lower taxes and increased employment over sheltered salaries and benefits that do not help the communities (while in fact bankrupting them).

  12. taxedenoughintacoma says:

    roussir, I disagree

    It is impossible to bargain collectively with the government.

    The founders of the labor movement viewed unions as a vehicle to get workers more of the profits they help create. Government workers, however, don’t generate profits. They merely negotiate for more tax money. When government unions strike, they strike against taxpayers. F.D.R. considered this “unthinkable and intolerable.”

    Union contracts make it next to impossible to reward excellent teachers or fire failing ones. Union contracts give government employees gold-plated benefits – at the cost of higher taxes and less spending on other priorities. The alternative to Walker’s budget was kicking 200,000 children off Medicaid. I thought the teachers and their unions were all for the kids.

    Governor Walker’s plan reasserts voter control over government policy. Voters’ elected representatives should decide how the government spends their taxes. More states should heed the A.F.L.-C.I.O. Executive Council’s 1959 advice: “In terms of accepted collective bargaining procedures, government workers have no right beyond the authority to petition Congress — a right available to every citizen.”

    rest my case….

  13. alindasue says:

    concernedtacoma7 said, “Does thinking that signing a petition means one voted equals uniformed?”

    Signing a petition is in essence “voting” to put an issue up for a vote (by congress or the people), so petition numbers are not something to be ignored if you are keeping track of political trends.

    Also, absent an election that hasn’t happened yet, polling people exiting from voting on another issue is a valid way to get a feel for how people might vote in an upcoming election. Of course, I say “how people MIGHT vote” because a survey is not an official vote. It is a poll only and hold as much or as little weight as any other poll.

    Personally, I could care less about polls. Knowing the latest whoever-sponsored-poll numbers is not the same thing as actually learning about the issues or people that are to be voted on. Knowing how many people signed a petition is important to people who are reporting on public opinion trends, but it also is not a viable way to learn the specifics of an issue or candidates.

  14. alindasue says:

    taxedenoughintacoma quoted, “…government workers have no right beyond the authority to petition Congress — a right available to every citizen.”

    Aren’t government workers also citizens? Doesn’t that give them just as much right to petition Congress? If groups of businessmen can bond together into associations (lobbyist groups) that petition in their name, why shouldn’t the workers be able to also?

  15. roussir says:

    Vox:
    “I read the LTE as an argument against two things:
    1) State picking up the cost of accounting and disbursement of of union dues, which would not be typical in the private sector, ”

    I read it the same way; this is why I said I view it as a benefit, which is nothing wrong. It may also bring efficiency, due to unified accounting (note *may*).

    “and
    2) The stench of quid-pro-quo (especially in this and other “blue” states) associated with the practice of public employees negotiating union contracts with and for other public employees. It makes a mockery out of the whole idea of collective bargaining and bargaining in good faith when you have two parties in the public sector who basically share common interests (never mind political philosophy) as opposed to the private sector where bargaining between labor and management occurs between two parties with both common as well as divergent interests.”

    My criticism: the emotional charge above obscures any rational argument that may be present; goverment and public employees do not mostly share common interests – they are subject to very similar stakeholder interests as the private sector (taxpayers/voters in place of investors/shareholders). I don’t see how you can dispute this in principle.

  16. roussir says:

    Taxed:
    “It is impossible to bargain collectively with the government”

    and then I don’t see anything in support of this statement, only complaints that collective bargaining helps public employees get better compensation (there is nothing wrong with this in principle, as long as it is transparant so it can be controlled by voters), and a wish that you, as an employer, would like to set compensation one-sidedly. As I said, I understand the sentiment to save money, but I still do not see why it is ok to do it by trampling public employees’ rights.

  17. concernedtacoma7 says:

    The profit motive is missing on both sides of the public service sector equation. The ability to vote in your own boss is also missing.

    Apples and oranges. Businesses can move, outsource, etc. The public has little flexibility.

  18. beerBoy says:

    As is the case in almost all elections these days, there is an urge to over read the results to indicate a grand scheme of things. I remember when the pundits said Obama’s election meant that a whole generation was going to the Dems…..

    The WI election means that WI voted to retain their governor….for now. Nothing more, nothing less.

  19. roussir says:

    “The profit motive is missing on both sides of the public service sector equation.”
    Assuming this is in response to my statement that there is no principle difference between goverment and private business with regards to checks and ballances in compensation negotiation:

    I don’t understand the point about profit; it is just getting more value (return) for your (invested) money; equivalent to getting more value (services) for your taxes. Same thing.

    “The ability to vote in your own boss is also missing.”
    Ideally, the government is similar to the management of an employee-owned company, in which the employees *can* vote on their boss.

  20. I can’t get a word in edgewise with Vox taking up the entire thread, aside from Frank Burns bleetings.

    The Democrats won one Senate seat which will hold Walker’s feet to the fire until the investigation is complete. Success!!!

    “Obama outspent McCain 3 to 1″ – does that include all the soft money that McCain disavowed? You know the “Obama is a Kenyan Marxist without a birth certificate” ads?

  21. Why does the right hate the middle class so much?
    Why don’t they just move to India and be done with it.

  22. Kinda interesting how Walker is now talking “beer and brats” instead of telling “David Kock” about dropping bombs on union employees.

    I’m really interested as to why the Republicans can’t seem to cull relationships with government employees, to encourage their votes, rather than just try to fire them. What’s the old saying about getting more flies with honey than vinegar?

    The conservatives think that everything is a bully item. Without control of the Senate, Walker can’t drop bombs on anyone.

    Success!

  23. “Voters went for lower taxes and increased employment”

    ROTL!!
    Walker is RAISING taxes and and WI enjoys the highest unemployment rate in the NATION!
    Once again c7 shows just how wrong one person can be!

  24. Bandito says:

    Even in the private secure the employer withholds whatever needs to be withheld from their employee’s paycheck and disperses these funds to the proper authority, union dues included if negotiated into their contract. There’s nothing new here, just Right wing posturing; trying to convince the public that there is some Liberal conspiracy to bilk their hard earned tax money.
    This is done as a convenience for the employee.

  25. I think a lot of people forgot this….

    Koch: [Laughs] Well, I tell you what, Scott: once you crush these b*stards I’ll fly you out to Cali and really show you a good time.

    Walker: All right, that would be outstanding.

    Now THERE is an ethics violation by Walker, but it seems that the law is ignoring that and going after something bigger.

  26. “Taxed:
    “It is impossible to bargain collectively with the government”

    Ignorance used to be bliss. Now it is just ignorance.

    The state employees of Wisconsin conceded money and benefits to Walker and THEN he tried to strip their bargaing rights.

    Wait…maybe it IS impossible, since Walker has no ethics or honor.

  27. alindasue

    “Then there are those of us who think the whole “leftist” and “rightist” conversation is divisive and counter-productive to finding any real solutions to our economic problems…”

    I do not believe common sense answer are allowed around here.

  28. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Roussir, you tried to compare public unions to employee owned companies. Once again, in the example of shared ownership, the goal for all is increased profits. In public unions, the goal is only employment and benefits. The owners are the taxpayer.

    You keep making the employee the shareholder, when it is the taxpayer. The employee’s stake is his/her job and same % profit motive as every other taxpayer. The scales are so tipped on personal benefits vs collective (public) needs and efficiency it is ridiculous.

    The clowns can spin, but it is a smack in the face. Go back into hiding.

  29. averageJoseph says:

    LOL… LPH has both computers booted up.

  30. Larry, thanks for the excellent reminder in your post:

    “I think a lot of people forgot this….

    Koch: [Laughs] Well, I tell you what, Scott: once you crush these b*stards I’ll fly you out to Cali and really show you a good time.

    Walker: All right, that would be outstanding.

    Now THERE is an ethics violation by Walker, but it seems that the law is ignoring that and going after something bigger.”

    —————————————
    Walker and buddies outspent Barrett by 30 million dollars. The cigarette lobby just spent 50 million dollars to defeat a tax increase on cigarettes in California. The post Citizens vs. United world is here. Thanks (NOT!) to our Supreme court.

  31. SwordofPerseus says:

    The real lesson seems to be that with enough money you can buy just about anything you want…

  32. Now I’ve got two computers??????

    Where is the other one?

    Government employees cannot be discriminated against. The enjoy all the rights of people employed in the public sector. Of course, conservatives really hate to not discriminate whenever possible.

  33. roussir says:

    Concerned, I did not try to compare, I gave specific examples refuting the incorrect points made in the comments above. I am sorry you are confused and incapable of understading basic points. The effort of dumbing it down and clarifying them for you is not worth it, your comment is giberish and full of wrong; you should try better.

  34. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    The Democrats won one Senate seat which will hold Walker’s feet to the fire until the investigation is complete. Success!!!

    LMAO, see that guy out there runnnig a victory lap without any clothes on? That’s ‘ol Larry.

    How, Larry? How will they hold anyones “feet to the fire” when they won’t even be in session until January of 2013 – after the eelctions of November, at which time the Republicans will likely have regained any seats they’ve lost to 2 phony-baloney union money recalls.

    It doesn’t matter.

    And anyway, as previously stated, Larry, the only ones who’ve called the race for Lehman are you, the left wing blogs, and the WI Senate Dems. The vote count shows less than 800 separating the two – there will be a recount.

  35. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Rous- no confusion. Your motive is personal. You want unions and the perks of electing your own boss. I want fiscal responsibility, I want bad teachers and other poor performing personnel in union protected occupations fired. I want towns, cities, states, and the fed govt to be solvent. I do not want to be Greece. I do not want my kids stuck paying for fat union benefits, letting services and stability suffer.

    People of Wisconsin felt the same. In cities in Cali the movement is spreading.

    It is selfish individuals against the people. The people have had enough, the unions over reached and are facing a backlash.

    It is you who are confused. You think govt can afford to over pay forever. You think the citizen will sit back, take the tax increases without increased services, just to finance the debt on bloated pensions.

    Larry, you stated last week subsidized transportation is a right (to go buy overpriced produce). Now it is public sector unions (not even legal until approx 1960 due to the obvious conflicts of public money and hiring your own boss). There is also a call for free college educations, using “rights” as an excuse. Enough. These people have every right I do. They can quit, move, or take what they are offered. They are protected by regulation, the union does nothing there so save the 1800’s argument.

    Cheers! Good night to have a drink with a smile, knowing this movement will help our Nation free itself from the chains of fiscal irresponsibility handed to us by progressives.

  36. David1964 says:

    I’m not familiar with how other public employee’s union dues are paid, but my dues as a member of the WEA is paid out of MY paycheck, not by the state. For those of you who think this is one and the same, I do EARN my wage and am entitled to spend it as I see fit. For the benefits the WEA and my local union provide me, I am happy to pay my monthly dues.

  37. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Read the letter. It is paying for the admin costs to process those dues. Another tax on the citizen.

  38. what wisconsin proves is that citizens united should never have happened.

    CT7 – your grandkids will spit on your grave for so gutlessly tuning our Nation and their futures over to the mega international corporations.

  39. taxedenoughintacoma says:

    David1964

    Happy to hear you are happy with your teachers union and their ruling class of liberal bosses.

    I just find it to be eye opening that when union teachers are allowed to opt opt of forced payment of union dues in Wisconsin 50% left the union. Guess they like freedom of choice.

    A provision of the Walker law that eliminated automatic dues collection hurt union membership. When a public-sector contract expires the state now stops collecting dues from the affected workers’ paychecks unless they say they want the dues taken out, said Peter Davis, general counsel of the Wisconsin Employment Relations Commission.

    In many cases, Afscme dropped members from its rolls after it failed to get them to affirm they want dues collected, said a labor official familiar with Afscme’s figures. In a smaller number of cases, membership losses were due to worker layoffs.

    State workers are telling the unions to ” let my people go “.

  40. Did I happen to mention that the Wisconsin Senate now has a Democratic majority so that Walker can’t ramrod through any more one sided legislation – not to mention they can’t hold illegal meetings.

    When you go to war, you don’t have to win each battle. Just the important one.

    For all the hullabaloo about Walker, the most important race was that Senate seat. If the Republicans held the Senate, a Democratic Governor would have been impotent.

    Taxedenough…when are you going to tell us where you work so that State employees’ families don’t spend money with your employer and taint your paycheck?

  41. Our “war hero” certainly enjoyed his military paychecks, compliments of State employees taxes…..

    State employees are taxpayers, too.

    “I just find it to be eye opening that when union teachers are allowed to opt opt of forced payment of union dues in Wisconsin 50% left the union. Guess they like freedom of choice.”

    I wonder how long they’d like it if they lost all the benefits that were negotiated by their union brothers and sisters. They’d be screaming like Taxedenough does. It’s real easy to mooch off those willing to go to the table with management, isn’t it Taxed?

    Walker and his kind want to eliminate all benefits and lower salaries and the starting point is to break the unions and solidarity. Let them go and find their own source of medical, dental and retirement.

  42. Which part of the labor contract did Walker violate by refusing to collect dues?

    Conservatives violate contracts and expect someone to uphold their side.

    It’s the same hypocrisy that they exercise in everything they do.

  43. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Stop whining. Admit defeat.

    Xring- proofread.

  44. took14theteam says:

    “what wisconsin proves is that citizens united should never have happened.”

    So that means you were against OWS too then. Because those were citizens united.

  45. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    Larry, nice battle/ war analogy. Didn’t know you were such a war buff.

    Trouble is, your side lost 4 out of 5 skirmishes, so far, and the 5th is still being contested. So the “war” continues, but by any objective post-action analysis, you lost that battle too.

    But you know that. You’re just doin’ what you do – runnin’ a victory lap… naked, while the whole crowd laughs at you.

  46. commoncents says:

    Seriously? You’re now arguing about the porcessing of voluntary deductions? A process that is entirely automated and likely costs about $3-5 a month. And no, that’s not per employee. Please!!!

  47. It’s interesting how the right doesn’t want to talk about law and contract violations. They just want to talk about “winning”.

    Kinda reminiscent of a football team cheating to win.

    Are the Republicans going to “count until they win” the Racine Senate seat?

    What did the Democrats have to “lose”? All losses were the potential of the Republicans as they had all the cards. Why do you think they spent so much money? They had a lot to lose. All the Dems needed was one Senate seat and until the Republicans find enough votes in trash cans or by mail in from dead people, they Dems got exactly what they needed.

  48. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Go back into hiding. You just got a little taste of what Nov will feel like.

    Romney 2012!

  49. Obviously this is a setback and hopefully the union membership will take a lesson from this; not that they are wrong or that they are doing anything wrong, but that their message has to change. The message that the far Right has been able to successfully use is that they save the taxpayers money and that they can keep taxes from rising and that the union members are the root of all evil. That has to change. Union members created the middle class. The far Right will destroy it, slowly but surely for the sake of the overly wealthy.

  50. SadujTogracse says:

    Only a horribly misguided person who takes his talking points directly from MSNBC could call 5 out 6 races won by Republicans and turn it into a Democratic victory.

  51. SadujTogracse says:

    Yes, let’s talk about violating one’s job obligations. How about Wisconsin senate Democrats refused to do their job and fled to another state like cowards? Apparantly that was justified and a “noble act”. Talk about no ethics or honor.

    It’s the same hypocrisy that they exercise in everything they do.

  52. And only fox spews would discount the 8:1 spending advantage (2/3 from out of state) and other right wing tricks to call the election fair.

    Consider the Senators as being on strick.

    And let’s not look to closely at the US House which spends 2/3 to 3/4 of their time not in session.

  53. SadujTogracse says:

    Not in session is a little different than running away when the Assembly WAS IN SESSION. Apples and oranges much?

    So your view is that the voters are just dunces who will automatically vote for the candidate with the most money? Interesting.

  54. Was there a contract that said legislators MUST show up or stay in the state and be “arrested” by the state police?

    If so, just prvide some proof of that contract. I’m certain it wouldn’t be hard to find the dues clause in their labor contract.

  55. taxedenoughintacoma says:

    xring, give me a break. Why don’t you point out that obama spent 4 to 1 against McCain.

    It was astonishing to see labor unions spend $35 million of their members’ dues money to beat back Scott Walker’s labor reforms. But the astonishing thing is that for all the money they spent, mostly unsuccessfully, their ads against the Republican incumbents they were trying to recall never talked about the labor law reforms

    Glad to see them blow $35 million. That is $35 million less they have to give to their boy obama.

  56. It seems to me that John McCain missed a ton of Senate sessions in 2008. Was he in violation of a law?

  57. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    No more so than then Senator Barack Hussein 0bama.

  58. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    Warning; GLC#2 violation @ 12:17 PM!

  59. taxedenough…when are you going to tell us where you work so that we don’t contaminate your money with state worker wages?

    Yesterday, it was 3 to 1 that Obama allegedly outspent McCain. Today it’s 4 to 1? Your statement is inaccurate, as usual. The complete in context answer is here:

    http://factcheck.org/2008/11/advertising-money-mccain-vs-obama/

    Tell us how much “soft money” was spent saying that Obama was a Kenyan Marxist Socialist without a birth certificate. Oh sorry, McCain said he didn’t know about that money, so it wasn’t spent for him. Right?

  60. It looks like Vox is wrong again:

    While running for president in 2007 and 2008, he missed 420 votes, or 63.9 percent, of 657 opportunities – more votes than anyone in the Senate. Votes cast and missed are the best measure of attendance for lawmakers.

    McCain also wasn’t the only presidential candidate to miss votes in that period. During the 2007 and 2008 sessions of the 110th Congress, President Barack Obama, then a senator from Illinois, missed 303 votes, or 46.3 percent of his opportunities, for the 110th Congress’ third-worst voting record. Vice President Joe Biden, then a senator from Delaware, was fourth-worst. He missed 209 votes, or 31.8 percent.

    Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/2010/09/28/20100928politics-factcheck0928.html#ixzz1x8eIwSj8

  61. SadujTogracse says:

    The contract is the Wisconsin state constitution that they swore to uphold. The same document that provides that “each house may compel the attendance of absent members.”

    In other words they are obligated to do their job, I know that’s probably a foreign concept to you.

  62. This is getting boring.

    All I have to do is prove Vox wrong, over and over.

    I think I’ll go watch an old movie that I’ve seen before and do something that will sensitize my intellect.

  63. Is there a contract that stipulates Wisconsin Senate members MUST be in attendance?

    I don’t think so….

    Now there IS a law about meetings and the Republicans violated that law:

    http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/03/10/149708/wisconsin-legal-problems/?mobile=nc

  64. SadujTogracse says:

    There is A LAW!! And I quote….

    “946.12 Misconduct in public office. Any public officer or public employee who does any of the following is guilty of a Class I felony:

    946.12(1)

    (1) Intentionally fails or refuses to perform a known mandatory, nondiscretionary, ministerial duty of the officer’s or employee’s office or employment within the time or in the manner required by law;”

    http://law.justia.com/codes/wisconsin/2010/946/946.12.html

    NEXT

  65. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    LarryH
    JUNE 7, 2012 AT 12:38 PM

    Was he in violation of a law?

    Vox_clamantis_in_deserto
    JUNE 7, 2012 AT 12:39 PM

    No more so than then Senator Barack Hussein 0bama.

    Larry; reeking of desperation.

    BTW, you forgot to mention who won second place in missed votes 2007 – 2008:

    Hillary Clinton – 648

    http://www.govtrack.us/congress/members/hillary_clinton/300022

    That would make 3 of the top 4 deadbeats as democrats.

    Looks like you win that battle too, Larry.

  66. took14theteam says:

    Larry, the only one that thinks you proved vox wrong is you and that big head.

    I should waste some time this weekend and look for some of your comments from 2011 so we all can compare and contrast your Walker positions.

    How does it feel to be twisted like a Pretzel?

  67. Oh ouch!!!

    What’s next? Larry’s got a big b_tt?

    “perform a known mandatory, nondiscretionary, ministerial duty of the officer’s or employee’s office or employment within the time or in the manner required by law”

    And that is????????????????

  68. concernedtacoma7 says:

    After the huge loss, lardnos is looking for a small victory. Even if he is 100% incorrect, let him have it. Call it an attempt to limit his wallpapering.

  69. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    Larry… you’re really not very good at the “gotcha” game, are you.

  70. took14theteam says:

    Yes, Larry does have a big butt. I saw it on Goggle Earth…

    ;-)

  71. SadujTogracse says:

    LOL!! It’s nice to know that there are some good people over here holding Larry accountable!

  72. “some people” = two people, five monikers

    What is a “mandatory, nondiscretionary, ministerial duty”?

    That reads like one of Vox’s filibusters.

    FrankBurns – what did the Wisconsin Democrats lose? (I personally lost nothing, I don’t even live in Wisconsin)

  73. What Wisconsin Dems had before recall election – NOTHING.

    What Wisconsin Dems have now – Senate Majority.

    Who lost?

    I’d say the Republicans lost the Senate Majority.

  74. “took14theteam says:
    June 7, 2012 at 3:37 pm Larry, the only one that thinks you proved vox wrong is you

    WRONG.

    http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/2010/09/28/20100928politics-factcheck0928.html#ixzz1x8eIwSj8

    and I KNOW Vox is wrong.

    Now I’ve proven “Took” wrong….but that’s like proving Vox wrong twice.

  75. averageJoseph says:

    LMAO… Preston holds himself accountable every time he posts.
    I, for one, am eagerly awaiting his next prediction.

  76. SadujTogracse says:

    Q “what did the Wisconsin Democrats lose?”

    A 5 out 6 races! Larry brings spin to a whole new level!

  77. SadujTogracse says:

    Oh and another question to ask is what did the Republicans win? That would be an affirmation of Scott Walker and his policies. And since he won this time by a larger margin than the first time, I’d say a definitive affirmation.

  78. philichi says:

    the key to this whole thing is mandatory withholding of money for dues. This is the death of any union. When the dues stopped being deducted in Wisconsin, 1/2 to 2/3 stopped paying. A union boss will stop at nothing to keep those dues flowing. This has destroyed the liberal machine in Wisconsin. Many other states will soon follow. With each state will be less money flowing to the union bosses. The libs will get weaker every time.

    That Larry is what you lost in Wisconsin. Sorry

  79. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Larry, in the land of leftists we live in, you wonder why there are no others writing in support of your views?

    On this issue you just look foolish. You stole your talking points from Debbie W Shultz. Even P Morgan called her out for being irrational and moronic.

    Stick to moral issues.

  80. beerBoy says:

    The lesson to be learned from Wisconsin is this:
    There is enough anger about Walker-style approaches to economics to fuel a recall. The Democrats’ business as usual is not seen as a viable alternative to the Republicans.

  81. beerBoy says:

    Q “what did the Wisconsin Democrats lose?”

    A 5 out 6 races!

    Since the Republicans held all 6 seats prior to the recall, they really had nothing to gain in the recall. The Dems – reluctant to anger their funders – were unwilling to go with the actual issues that fueled the anger in WI, which is why they were unable to capitalize.

  82. philichi says:

    beerboy, Let me begin to charitably tell you how silly you sound 1)Yes, it looks like the Republicans lost a senate seat. Guess what, the senate in Wisconsin will not meet again until after another election. I don’t really think that the unions got their money’s worth, do you. 2) The unions thought that the rest of the citizens cared about their issue. They bet big time on this. A majority believed that this is a spoiled group of over paid people that the rest are having to pay for. They were smacked down. 3) you say that they didn’t run on the issues. The dems did one poll after another. They found that people don’t really care about the collective bargaining of public unions bosses. They want more efficient government and schools. This was the issue with Scott Brown in Mass.

    My friend, your team will begin to rise again in many years. However, sit back and enjoy the dry spell. The dems will have to reconnect with voters (not unions). They will find an issue that is important again. However, there will be a lot of pain first.

  83. beerBoy….they don’t understand. Everything to lose was on the Republicans’ side. Why spend so much money if you have nothing to lose?

    Uh…philichi….if unions were “smacked down” (which makes me wonder what TV show you watch), how is it that about 30% of homes are union and the recall vote was 45% in favorite of union bargaining rights? It would appear to me that union workers have lots of friends. In addition, many voters voted against recall, just because there is no proof of wrong doing by Walker……..YET.

    All of your anti-union hyperbole is duely noted

  84. “philichi says:
    June 7, 2012 at 10:05 pm the key to this whole thing is mandatory withholding of money for dues.”

    Which is a part of the labor contract and a violation of same contract when Walker told the state accountants to quit doing it.

    How many contract violations and laws broken does Walker get?

    There was no vote on dues witholdering, nor would it be legal anyway. That is an agreement made by the state and the workers.

    Walker demonstrates (there and other ways) how he has no ethics.

  85. Bandito says:

    Unions shot themselves in the foot when they fought for and won legislation which protects all working people, not just their members. They raised the bar so well that many working people see no need in becoming an active part of organized labor. They live off the fruits of those who preceded them. As union membership goes by the wayside, management will again rear its greedy head. It won’t be long until the next generation sees the need to join forces to again level the playing field. It’s human nature.

    Yes, “there will be a lot of pain first.”

  86. “Yes, it looks like the Republicans lost a senate seat. Guess what, the senate in Wisconsin will not meet again until after another election.”

    Let me share how silly you sound, philichi….

    Walker doesn’t get to make laws without the Senate. If anything the Democrats now have more time to focus on other districts and build a bigger majority. This election only had about a one month campaign window.

    With classic Republican arrogance, you can’t see the forest for the trees.

    beerBoy forgot more about political action than you and FrankBurns collectively will ever know.

  87. SadujTogracse says:

    Walker won by a larger margin than he did the first time. The message is clear for anyone not wearing Larry blinders….a clear affirmation of Walker’s policies, enough said.

  88. averageJoseph says:

    Even more priceless is Walker has VETO power. :)

  89. Joey….and the Senate will not allow illegal activities on the part of the Governor :)

  90. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    Let me share how silly you sound, philichi….

    Walker doesn’t get to make laws without the Senate. If anything the Democrats now have more time to focus on other districts and build a bigger majority. This election only had about a one month campaign window.

    Larry… that may be the stupidest thing you’ve ever said – I dunno’ because there’s so much from which to choose.

    Now, “let me share how silly you sound,” Larry….

    Again, the WI state senate will not be in session again until January, 2013 – two months after the elections of November 2012 – unless they call for a special session, which, if indeed Lehman survives the inevitable re-count, would be virtually certain to be denied by the governor.

    And if you think one month was not enough time to prepare for an election compared to 5, wouldn’t the same logic apply to 5 months as opposed to two years? Never mind the money drained from the dem’s coffers by TWO wasted recall elections.

    Good Lord, Larry, how many brain cells did you leave behind in the 20th century?

  91. Scott Walker won his 2010 gubernatorial race with 52.29% of the vote

    He won his recall with 53% of the vote.

    $31 million dollars to purchase 0.71% of the vote.

    Quite an accomplishment.

    Even though they outspent the opposition by a 7 to 1 margin, they had to use illegal robocalling tactics on the day of the election.

    Sounds like Walker and the Republicans are really sure of their position with the voters, huh?

    This reminds me of the price of booze in Washington. “We’ll pay more do save money.”

  92. Walker gained 206,000 votes over his 2010 election.

    At a cost of $31,000,000, it cost Walker $150.48 per vote to get more voters than voted for him in 2010.

    Nice, if you’ve got it.

    His opponent spent $3.54 per vote.

  93. Vox – your typical circular filibuster doesn’t change anything.

    The Democrats took over majority in the Senate. If it was meaningless to the Republicans, they wouldn’t have spent so much money on campaigning.

    I’ll not make insults about your brain cells. I don’t have to.

  94. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    Very under-devloped whine you having with that fine Wisconsin cheese, Larry.

  95. SadujTogracse says:

    Oh so all those people who were so upset by Walker’s policies decided to change their votes because Walker had more money????

    Now that dog REALLY don’t hunt! LOL this is hilarious watching Larry try to spin this!

  96. SadujTogracse says:

    Oh and here comes the illegal tactics and election fraud talking points again. Notice anytime a Republican wins an election they only win because of fraud or cheating. The left is sooooo predictable.

  97. Christine Gregoire.

  98. SadujTogracse says:

    Larry probably even believes the line that was uttered today by our fearless leader that “the private sector is doing fine”

    LOL!!

  99. beerBoy says:

    I’m so proud…philichi thinks a comment I made sounds silly! That definitely means that I am onto the truth.

*
We welcome comments. Please keep them civil, short and to the point. ALL CAPS, spam, obscene, profane, abusive and off topic comments will be deleted. Repeat offenders will be blocked. Thanks for taking part and abiding by these simple rules.

JavaScript is required to post comments.

Follow the comments on this post with RSS 2.0