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RELIGION: Change in the Catholic Church

Letter by Christopher Staeheli, Tacoma on May 30, 2012 at 2:07 pm with 69 Comments »
May 30, 2012 2:08 pm

In June, the Affordable Care Act may be declared unconstitutional. Who then will provide for the health care of those who fall through the cracks of our health care system?

In the past, the Catholic nuns have taken on much of this burden. While Catholic bishops emphasize social judging and words used during liturgy, the nuns have been quietly doing works of social justice: providing pregnancy aid, food, clothing, housing, education and health care for those in need.

The Vatican report,” The Doctrinal Assessment of the Leadership Conference of Women,” attacks the nuns’ activities as a “crisis,” a “scandal” and “grave” – terms the Vatican did not use for the widespread priest sexual abuse and embezzlement scandals.

According to the Vatican, the nuns are guilty of “sins” of omission: not making traditional family values their central foci and not being Eucharist-centered at meetings (code for no priest).

There is one “sin” of commission: supporting the Affordable Care Act. These brilliant women established hospitals and schools in this country without multimillion-dollar benefits, their deferred compensation coming in heaven. The nuns taught me that the Good Samaritan did not do a traditional moral values check before providing health care to the gentile.

 

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  1. menopaws says:

    God Bless!!!! These women have done more good work than all the rabble who are in the power structure of this institutionalized school of pedophilia……….They have worked to do the Lord’s work with little credit and are now being demonized by the true demons. Great letter….and thank you. I feel that Catholic nuns have been treated very poorly for many, many years……….

  2. GHTaxPayer says:

    You could always go to Planned Parenthood for medical services…..oh wait…….they just murder babies, especially female babies.

    http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/abortion/230099-anti-abortion-groups-return-war-on-women-charge-ahead-of-controversial-vote

  3. “they just murder babies, especially female babies.”

    Complete lie. No wonder the anti-choice people can’t get any traction on their quest. They lie

  4. aislander says:

    “No wonder the anti-choice(sic) people can’t get any traction on their quest.”

    Have yuh seen the latest pro-life vs pro-abortion stats?

    And it’s no lie: I’ve seen the video…

  5. sumyungboi says:

    Here’s a suggestion for those nuns, if they want to ignore their church, and make “social justice” (meaning giving away people’s stuff to other people to whom it does not belong) their top priority, then turn in the penguin suit and find some leftist outfit that more closely matches their values.

  6. Theefrinker says:

    You’re right sumyungboi. They should help people for the sake of helping people, not in the name of a church or invisible deity. Good point!

  7. sumyungboi says:

    I know you’re impressed with what you believe to be your wit, but I stand by my point, and will add that these nuns pose as Catholics, but refute Catholicism while pushing a leftist agenda. This is simply typical leftist mo, preaching social justice while living off of other people’s work. Simple hypocrisy.

  8. GHTaxPayer says:

    1.6 Million African-American babies murdered by Planned Parenthood since 1995.

  9. there is a ght and an islander born every minute.

    aislander – why does the party of individual responsible and less intrusive government have against women making their own choice?

    And where, pray tell, do you two come up with you ‘facts’ and ‘statistics’

  10. Long before it was publicized in the media I wondered how conservatives can reconcile their belief in “small government” with their need to tell people how to conduct their private lives in a blatant “big government” way. Glad to see this irony is being pointed out to them.

  11. hansgruber says:

    Do you really think the Church is going to stop providing services if Obamacare is struck down?

    How ignorant are you Christopher?

    1 out of every 8 Hospitals in the USA is a Catholic Hospital which employ over 600,000 people nationwide.

    What would jeopardize these services would be the federal government requiring the church to violate its doctrine.

    Just remember to tell the emergency workers that you don’t want to go to a catholic hospital as they transport you!

  12. billybushey says:

    Watch “The Borgias” on Showtime. Not much has changed, except the priests go more for boys now.

  13. sumyungboi says:

    lindee: “I wondered how conservatives can reconcile their belief in “small government” with their need to tell people how to conduct their private lives ..”

    The federal government is trying to dictate to the Catholic Church how they conduct _their_ business. How do people like you even live with yourself? Or are you so indoctrinated that you don’t even know what you’re saying? No normal, _thinking_ person could type what you did with a clear conscience.

  14. sumyungboi says:

    bonney: “Watch “The Borgias” on Showtime. Not much has changed, except the priests go more for boys now.”

    A TV show, how relevant to the conversation.

  15. bobcat1a says:

    The nuns are what priests should be. If they weren’t subject to the misogynistic pederast club, most of them would BE priests.

  16. sumyungboi says:

    mittens: “The nuns are what priests should be. If they weren’t subject to the misogynistic pederast club, most of them would BE priests.”

    This sort of illustrates the differences. When conservatives feel strongly about something, they try to change people’s minds. When progs feel strongly about something, they try to force people to do things they don’t want to. This is why progressivism / liberalism / communism is a failed philosophy and always will be. Most people like individual freedom, which is not possible within the leftist end prize.

  17. “make “social justice” (meaning giving away people’s stuff to other people to whom it does not belong) their top priority”

    Jesus would be so proud.

    Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

    Forget not that Jesus was a leftist, according to legend.

  18. The Borgias, also known as the Borjas, Borjia, were a European Papal family of Italian and Spanish origin with the name stemming from the familial fief seat of Borja belonging to their Aragonese Lords; they became prominent during the Renaissance.

    Imagine that. A TV show based on history. Who woulda thunk of sumpin like that?????

    This conversation is a deja vu of one I had with…you know who…about the historical value of “Boardwalk Empire”. Maybe those who claim to not watch, shouldn’t comment so quickly.

  19. sumyungboi says:

    Don’t really care what Jesus might think, as I’m not a Christian. What I do know is that the Catholics are a religious organization headed in Vatican City, from where they receive their marching orders. If some Catholic nuns don’t like it but keep the suit and title, they’re simply leeches and hypocrites.

  20. S-Boi said: “…they’re simply leeches and hypocrites.” How very compassionate of you. You must have a huge ego and a very small mind to be so judging of those who only wish to serve others. I feel sorry for you.

  21. scumy,

    You obviously are not catholic and have never meet a catholic nun or sister.

    In short you post is totally false and misleading. But then that is par for you.

    Conservatives live by one rule, our way and only our way, and resort to violence, blackmail, and intimidation to change peoples minds.

    What has failed is the neocon belief that they know what is best for American and her people, both individually and collectively.

  22. aislander says:

    afret: It seems that you and xring are the ones doing the “judging.”

    Care to read what the two of you have written?

  23. As-lander – Are you S-boi’s apologist now? Maybe he should defend himself. But OK, I was not the one saying a group of nuns who only want to serve those in need are “leeches and hypocrites” I called neither you nor S-boi anything close to that statement. Maybe I struck a nerve because what was said is not defensible. Swing and a miss!

  24. aislander says:

    Hey, if you’re using an agent to take from people to give their belongings to other people, you may not be a leech (you’re only serving leeches), but you are most certainly a hypocrite…

  25. As-lander that is pretty bizarre logic. To call those who wish to serve those in need with no regard for themselves hypocrites and those they serve leeches is despicable. Maybe you like to say outrageous things like this to get attention or for some other reason but it just makes no sense. Par for the course I guess and very sad.

  26. Bandito says:

    The Catholic Church is not a democracy. It’s their way or the highway. It bears little resemblance to any organization that Jesus would have wanted to associate himself with. I feel sorry for the nuns because their level of commitment is unmatched, but even sorrier for the lowly sheep who are expected to respect the hierarchy.

  27. sumyungboi says:

    afret, if a nun violates church policy for the purpose of promoting her own social agenda, then yes, she’s a leech and a hypocrite.

    xring, I’ve met several nuns in my life. They seemed quite upstanding. Then again, those that I met weren’t pushing a leftist social agenda on me. Your branch into your anti-conservative rant was hilarious, at best.

    bandito, this is not a theological discussion, the topic is nuns who forsake their church to pursue their own form of social justice. The church has their policies, and if some nuns find that they can’t live by those policies, then they should get a job. No one has the right to call the pope and tell him how he’s going to run things. If people don’t like the catholic church, then don’t join the catholic church.

  28. harleyrider1 says:

    Obama will take care of us. Look how much the Muslims have helped so far. I just finished reading his book and since he was raised for years as a Muslim (his words)and knows the Koran inside and out, we can count on him.

    I lost my TV guide. Anyone know what channel he will be on today? And will he be singing or dividing us today?

  29. sumy? The Catholic religion is a Christian religion, therefore they follow Jesus’ teachings which were ‘leftist’. Jesus was a socialist. Therefore, by being socially active in their service, the nuns are following Jesus’ lead more so than much of the high order. So if there is anyone who needs to leave the order for their service, it would be the priests and higher orders. They need to leave the church and push their fascists agenda elsewhere.

  30. hardtruth says:

    Amen. There will be a schism within the next 20 years.

  31. sumyungboi says:

    Nice try frida, but you fail. The discussion here is not whether Jesus was a socialist or the bartender at cowgirl up, it doesn’t matter. The heads of the catholic church have every right to run their church however they like, regardless of how _you_ think they should, and regardless of if Jesus thinks they’re jerks. If you don’t think the catholics are being good christians, then just don’t join the catholic church, it really is just that simple.

  32. “In June, the Affordable Care Act may be declared unconstitutional.”

    Don’t worry Chris, it won’t.
    And if you seriously think churches are going to take care of you, you might as well pick out your cardboard box now.

  33. “.they just murder babies, especially female babies.”

    Liar.

  34. The biggest problem with Christianity is the people who profess it.

  35. “What would jeopardize these services would be the federal government requiring the church to violate its doctrine.”

    ROTFL!!!
    Will you cons stop at nothing?

  36. GHTaxPayer says:

    The bipartisan bill to ban selective-gender abortions for purpose of killing female babies comes up for vote today and I can guarantee you that a whole bunch of leftists will vote against it. The left is for murdering innocent babies, funneling money to Muslim Brotherhood, Palestine and China – all of whom oppress women or allow female-only abortions.

    How do the liberal Dems even sleep at night? Knowing the atrocities they support and the lives they’ve killed?

  37. GHTaxPayer says:

    Actually I was wrong about the number of African American babies murdered by Planned Murderhood – IT’S CLOSER TO 13 MILLION –

    http://blackgenocide.org/black.html

    How can any decent person fund Planned Murderhood KNOWING that their #1 priority is murdering innocent babies ??

  38. “Knowing the atrocities they support and the lives they’ve killed?”

    SHOCK AND AWE

  39. sumyungboi says:

    gh, planned parenthood was founded by racists as a way to reduce the black population.

    Also, one of my favorite Margaret Sanger (founder of pph) quotes: “The most merciful thing that a large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it.”

  40. The KKK has killed more blacks than Margaret Sanger.

    There are lots of quotes attributed to her that she never said.

    Imagine THAT!

  41. http://feministsforchoice.com/was-margaret-sanger-a-racist.htm

    The subtle nuances that racists in hiding don’t want you to know.

  42. sumyungboi says:

    If history doesn’t jive with your agenda, just change history in your own mind. I’m sure if you say it enough, you’ll even start to believe your own lies. You’ve already shown classic signs of paranoid schizophrenia, so I’m not surprised.

  43. GHTaxPayer says:

    And the KKK was formed by southern DEMOCRATS and the last member of Congress with KKK membership was Robert Byrd (D).

    And the Democratic party fought the Civil War to keep slavery legal !!

    And a higher percentage of Republican Congress voted for Civil Rights than Democrats !!!

    Or have you forgotten all these FACTS, LarryH ?????

  44. About a woman’s right to choose…why can’t you all get this simple point? There are clearly two world views here. Let’s say a woman’s husband is a brute and her “health” is endangered by his continued existence. Does she have a right to terminate him? (While some may say yes, let’s just stick to the law?)

    Okay, for pro-life people, a woman’s right to choose to terminate the life of her unborn child is no different. Thus, pro-life advocates will continue to fight for the right of the unborn, the “life” without a voice in the matter. And while we will abide by the law of the land, as the Bible says we should, we will fight for those laws to be changed.

    This is in no way contradictory to fighting for less government intrusion. We expect the gov’t to intrude to protect the lives of innocents.

    If you see unborn children as something else (tissue) of COURSE you will be unable to appreciate this position.

  45. sumyungboi says:

    Well laid out, sozo. I also oppose abortion, but for reasons unrelated to religion. I think that most sane persons would agree that killing a newborn kid is wrong. How about if the woman’s in labor, but the kid’s not popped out yet? Still wrong. A week before labor? Point is, at what point does the “tissue” become a kid? No one knows. The “tissue” certainly has a different DNA makeup than the mother, so there’s no argument that it’s part of the mothers body, it isn’t, yet those cells are absolutely alive from day one.

    Criminals on death row get a series of appeals before they’re put to death, society wants to make sure they get it right. I wouldn’t really oppose abortion if the living tissue within a chicks body were allowed the same appeals process as a murderer on death row.

  46. GHT – That was then this is now – things change – now it’s the rpots run the KKK.

    Sozo,

    The wife has a right to stand her ground.

    Pro-life advocates stop at birth, and are the same ones that what to cut federal programs that help women and children.

    In other words, Big Brother has the right to over ride individual choice.

  47. sumyungboi says:

    xring: “In other words, Big Brother has the right to over ride individual choice.”

    You just did _exactly_ what sozo was talking about.

    sozo: “If you see unborn children as something else (tissue) of COURSE you will be unable to appreciate this position.”

    Opponents of abortion see an unborn kid. Proponents of abortion see a tumor. This is why there really isn’t any room to meet in the middle on this issue. You either believe abortion is murder or you don’t, and sozo’s point was that one of governments jobs is to protect the innocent. This is what you consider conservative insistence that government intrude into women’s rights, pro life people also see it as a right to life issue.

  48. “unborn children”

    jumbo shrimp

    Invisible pictures

    There is “belief” and there is “logic”

  49. “sumyungboi says:
    May 31, 2012 at 9:04 am If history doesn’t jive with your agenda, just change history in your own mind.”

    And if you can’t change history just by declaring someone said something, then personally attack the messenger.

    I notice you have nothing to support your alleged comment by Sanger. Nothing new here….move along…..

  50. Sanger’s actual quote, in context –

    “Thus we see that the second and third children have a very good chance to live through the first year. Children arriving later have less and less chance, until the twelfth has hardly any chance at all to live twelve months. [npg] This does not complete the case, however, for those who care to go farther into the subject will find that many of those who live for a year die before they reach the age of five. [npg] Many, perhaps, will think it idle to go farther in demonstrating the immorality of large families, but since there is still an abundance of proof at hand, it may be offered for the sake of those who find difficulty in adjusting old-fashioned ideas to the facts. The most merciful thing that the large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it. The same factors which create the terrible infant mortality rate, and which swell the death rate of children between the ages of one and five, operate even more extensively to lower the health rate of the surviving members.”

    As usual, the conservative misrepresents the context to a quote. It’s a habit of their’s

  51. anotherID2remember says:

    I appreciate the way prochoice people do not give women the ability to choose between unprotected sex and using contraception.

    Tooo bad women are only able to make a choice after the pregnancy occurs. Would be nice if women were able to decide before hand.

    That was a pun.

  52. ID2 – The yoke is on you.

    The pro-choice group supports a woman’s access to contraceptives.

    The anti-choice group that activly seek to deny and restrict access.

  53. sumyungboi says:

    xring: “The anti-choice group that activly seek to deny and restrict access.”

    I’ll give you the chance to cite that before I blow up your dumb comment.

  54. good luck trying.

  55. sumyungboi says:

    Didn’t think so. In any case, there are some religious organizations that have a problem with contraceptives, and they teach that to their members. Don’t like it? Don’t become a member. If women want contraceptives, they can get them, and almost always very cheap or free, as we all know from following the follies of the village idiot, Sandra Fluke.

  56. sumy? I’m not catholic, I steer clear from hypocrisy and fascism. ONE thing is clear, you can’t have your cake and eat it too. If the church wants to be involved so heavily in the secular politics of this great nation, fine. Then they need to lose their tax exempt status and pay taxes like the rest of us. As for the nuns? They walk the walk. Priests? Hard to take a leadership seriously that harbors pedophiles.

  57. sumyungboi says:

    frida, you’re the guy who’s so fixated on what you want to get out there, that you just ignore the conversation and keep saying the same irrelevant stuff over and over. I know you think you’ve got this gotcha thing going with Alinsky #4, but it just doesn’t apply in any case. We get it, you think the catholic church sucks. Then don’t join, or start your own church. No one is forcing you to be a catholic or to adhere to their doctrine.

    you: “If the church wants to be involved so heavily in the secular politics of this great nation, fine. Then they need to lose their tax exempt status ..”

    So, the federal government dictates to the catholics what they must do, and the catholics are the bad guys for pushing back? This is where you guys fail, every single time. You want government dictating _your_ agenda, you want them dictating to other people what _you_ would have them do, you celebrate progressive tax frees trying to drive the national conversation, but get all pouty and hurt if religious or conservative groups do the same. Grow up.

  58. Sumy,
    Those same religious organizations who oppose contraceptives actively:
    1. Oppose freedom of choice, and
    2. Seek to impose their views on the rest of us.

  59. Bless you for attempting to bring logic and honesty to bear on this discussion sumy.

    FYI if I’m not mistaken (and I’ll go check) roughly 5% of the priesthood has been found to be pedophilic, so it’s a bit absurd to presume that the entire priesthood is involved in this diseased activity. Unless of course you want to use those same stats as they apply to all of humanity; in which case all MEN are pedophiles.

    Another FYI, the majority of Christians are perfectly fine with contraception, and as was pointed out, if you don’t like the church that tells you it’s wrong, don’t join it. Most Christians see a marked distinction between prevention and murder!

  60. “If history doesn’t jive with your agenda, just change history in your own mind. I’m sure if you say it enough, you’ll even start to believe your own lies. You’ve already shown classic signs of paranoid schizophrenia, so I’m not surprised.”

    Right wing hypocrisy at it’s worst.

  61. “Bless you for attempting to bring logic and honesty to bear on this discussion sumy.”

    Seriously??
    soso you have tipped you hand yet again. The bias you show was plain as day but now you have lit it up with neon lights!

  62. Sozo,
    5% of priests are known because they were caught.

    How many have not been caught?

    How about protestant clergy?

    I have no problems with church beliefs – as long as the church does not try to force their beliefs on non-members.

  63. sumyungboi says:

    xring: “Those same religious organizations who oppose contraceptives actively:
    1. Oppose freedom of choice, and
    2. Seek to impose their views on the rest of us.”

    The catholic church’s position is that they oppose contraception. The solution for guys like you is to not join the catholic church. Your point # 2 is ridiculous hyperbole, we all know that. Your guy had his chance. He blew it, you people have been exposed to rest for what you truly are, and you’re now in panic mode making up all sorts of ridiculous crapola as a diversion. It won’t work, and you people can no longer work in the shadows, everyone knows who and what you are.

  64. Scum
    My solution to catholics is to tell them to mind their own business and keep out of my affairs.

    The hyperbole you hear is you own wind.

  65. sumyungboi says:

    xring, quite mature of you to refer to me as “scum”, but I accept that as something progressives to when they lose.

    Anyway, since you’ve been reduced to flinging out insults with zero substance accompanying it, I’ll presume that you can’t cite one instance of the catholic church prying into your affairs. Game over.

  66. notimetobleed says:

    Instances of Catholic Church Prying into my affairs:

    #1. I walk out af Mass and a petition is put in my face.
    #2. I walk to my neighborhood drug store to get contraception and they don’t have any because the owners are Catholic and they don’t believe I should have access to contraception.
    #3. If I wanted to get married to a same sex partner, they are actively seeking to prevent this.
    #4. If needed to get an abortion for whatever reason, I could not go to Swedish Medical, Providence Medical, or Franciscan Health Care.

    Sorry…was I supposed to stop at just one?

  67. Bandito says:

    “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s” (Matthew 22:21)

    If you don’t like the laws of the Catholic church you need not continue your membership. If you don’t like the laws of the land you can work to change them.

    The Catholic Church has to obey the laws of the land, not the other way around. Their jurisdiction begins and ends at the door of their church. But, they want their laws to be the law of the land. They want their cake and eat it too.

    The nuns mistakenly feel that their church has something to do with the teachings of Jesus. They will quickly learn otherwise.

  68. sumyungboi says:

    notimetobleed sez: “Instances of Catholic Church Prying into my affairs:

    #1. I walk out af Mass and a petition is put in my face.”

    How _dare_ those catholics participate in free speech! God knows that liberals never try to push their beliefs on _me_!

    “#2. I walk to my neighborhood drug store to get contraception and they don’t have any because the owners are Catholic and they don’t believe I should have access to contraception.”

    Those dbags!! When a private retail business has the option to not stock something, you know we’re sunk. Hell, I was in a restaurant the other day, asked for a Coke, and all they had was Pepsi.

    “#3. If I wanted to get married to a same sex partner, they are actively seeking to prevent this.”

    The catholic church opposes same sex marriage, as do many, many other organizations and individuals. I oppose same sex marriage. Most people do. It’s a social thing, not a catholic or religious thing.

    “#4. If needed to get an abortion for whatever reason, I could not go to Swedish Medical, Providence Medical, or Franciscan Health Care.”

    Looks like you’ll have to settle for one of the _many_ other places that provide abortions. Damn shame that you can’t go to one of those places and force a free person to do something he doesn’t want to do.

    Anyway, I think this thread’s kind of dead, but do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound? Is this what you guys are reduced to?

  69. beerBoy says:

    sozo – yes, it is absurd to assume that all of the priest were involved in pedophile behavior but it isn’t absurd to assume that the vast majority of the bishops, cardinals and, yes, the pope of the VERY authoritarian bureaucratic Catholic Church were aware of, and complicit in, the cover-up.

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