Letters to the Editor

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RELIGION: Catholic women must not be silent

Letter by Mary L. Church, Lakewood on May 22, 2012 at 10:36 am with 61 Comments »
May 22, 2012 10:49 am

Re: “Catholic institutions sue over birth control” (TNT, 5-22).

I cannot believe that all the women in the Catholic Church do not use some sort of birth control. They should be ashamed to stand by in silence to this blatant attack on women.

When will they stand up to the all-male hierarchy in the church and take back the place that is rightfully theirs?

Women should have absolute control over what they choose to do with their bodies. They are allowing men who knowingly condoned child sexual abuse to make decisions for them and their daughters.

 

Leave a comment Comments → 61
  1. Mary…as many have said, if you dislike a religion, find another.

    For the life of me, I can’t comprehend why women would tolerate what is going on, in terms of birth control and such. Your faith must exceed the dogma of men.

    A mass exodus from the church might be just the ticket to gain control. Lighter collection plates make more noise than full ones.

  2. slugoxyz says:

    This is one of those times when a person can go too far in what they expect of someone else. I am not Catholic but grew up in a Catholic community. Not every single clergy member in the rather large Catholic Church either participates or condones child sex abuse. A statement like that would be tantamount to saying that every pro-women’s rights female was an idiot. We both know that not all of them are idiots. Letter writer excluded.

    You criticize Catholic women for believing in something bigger than themselves. Willing to sacrifice for what they feel is a greater good. Who does their devotion hurt? You? It’s not always about you Mary. Your criticism comes from a selfish place. A place where you are looking out for your rights for your own sake. You are critical of someone who would sacrifice those rights to follow a belief. A belief that professes general goodness. Unless history escapes me, the Catholic Church hasn’t gone to war or done any inquisitions lately. Despite a few blemishes, there are probably some Catholic clergy members out there in the world helping people and your somewhat blanket criticism of the entire denomination makes you seem… well… ignorant.

    So, here is my point. If you, in your selfish little world wish to rule over males – then that is exactly what you should do. But before you go all willy nilly telling someone else what they should and shouldn’t do, make sure your world is perfect.

  3. ThinkerDem says:

    Why any woman would remain in any organization which relegates her to second-class citizenship is contrary to reason. Do they really believe the only women worthy of canonization by the men who run the church are virgins, preferably martyrs who died defending their “purity”? Before allowing the old men in red satin beanies, skirts and ballet slippers to dictate whether, when, and how many times they will bear children, I suggest they read “Absolute Monarchs, A History of the Papacy” by noted historian, John Julius Norwich, and “Eunuchs for the Kingdom of Heaven” by Ute Ranke-Heinemann, which traces the origins RC church’s dogmas about marriage, sexuality and priestly celibacy.If you don’t like to read, watch the Showtime series, “The Borgias”. Rodrigo Borgia (Alexander VI)who fathered several children including Cesare, Juan, and the much maligned Lucrezia,used his papacy to wage political wars to gain and keep wealth for the church,and have the women he wanted. Don’t think the pedophilia scandal is anything new. The history of the papacy is replete with popes who preferred little boys and young men. Most Catholics do not know the history of those who would rule their lives. They have been and continue to be duped because of that ignorance.

  4. charliebucket says:

    slug, your personal attacks on the letter writer are uncalled for.

  5. charliebucket says:

    as far as the Catholic church is concerned, some of their rituals and rules are why I left. Their birth control position and women not allowed to be ordained are 2 of the big reasons. I also will add that some of my priests were great but many were controlling, shamers and blamers with all that Catholic guilt. None for me thanks. I encourage anyone who doubts whatever their church (any church) teaches to not get guilted or shamed into not leaving or buy into the nonsense that you will go to hell or be punished by God for making your faith what YOU want or not following rules and rituals to the letter etc etc. I know I stayed a Catholic a lot longer than I should have because I was basically ‘brainwashed’ and afraid of thinking for myself or acting on what I believed, instead of what the church told me to believe.

  6. Ortingmom says:

    Perhaps you should worry about yourself rather than what you think is right for others. Women should have absolute control over what they do(not you). (no I am not a Catholic)

  7. slugoxyz says:

    Here I go again. The United States history is a few hundred years long. In that history, we have made some mistakes. Both cultural and governmental. We are still one of the greatest phenomena to take place on this planet. Our success has risen and fallen like the waves in the ocean but we are still a symbol for the rest of the world for how a republic can generally look after its people in a benevolent and semi self governing way. Freedom may be relative but we are as close to free as anyone else in the world. So, all those blemishes in our history do not make us less but rather, make us more because we overcame them. We are not the sum total of our mistakes but rather our successes.
    You mock one of the largest denominations on the planet because you judge them by their failures. Think of the good the Catholic Church has done.

    In recent history, I applaud the Catholic Church at the concessions they have made. Evolution is always better and less painful than revolution. They have identified a problem and while trying to not throw the baby out with the bath water, they are endeavoring to solve it. How many US politicians have made mistakes that made front page news? We don’t dismantle the entire government because of some crooked politicians. The Catholic Church does a lot of good. Maybe the critical nature of people here is a West Coast thing. You hate a benevolent organization that feeds the hungry, clothes the poor and attempts to look after the theoretical salvation of millions because they hang on to some archaic chauvinistic traditions? Jeepers. You guys are hard. You can’t find a better target than the Catholic Church? How about Islam? How about terrorism? How about world hunger? No? You want to beat up the Catholic Church because they have an opposing view on birth control? Really? How narrow.

    And Charlie – thanks. Again – letting us all know what is right for everyone else. What is it with you people?

  8. The Church’s fanatic dogma must hold sway over its women. I can’t believe they aren’t up in arms over this. It’s like the Church dissuades the use of birth control to use women as baby making factories to increase the flock. As one letter writer said, one way to protest is at the collection plate, money does talk.

    I can’t believe people actually worship at this archaic institution. The Church(and organized religion in general) is predatory. It preys on the uneducated, the ignorant and the naieve, even more so in 3rd world countries. Its priests prey on young children. As of 2009, Church payouts amounted to $1.29 BILLION to settle US sex abuse cases. That tells me a rather large number of priests have been involved. Cardinal Roger Mahoney and Cardinal Bernard Law are criminally complicit in the shuffling of sex predator priests from one diocese to another as was the late Pope John Paul II.

    It’s an archaic, criminal institution.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlements_and_bankruptcies_in_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases

  9. charliebucket says:

    no, I let everyone know what was right for me and encouraged others to look at their situation. The Catholic Church is the one who is trying to tell everyone else (Catholics and non Catholics) what is right for them, in a FREE country. They rule in Vatican City, not here.

    what is with YOU?????

    rhetorical, no need to answer.

  10. TheLawOfUnintendedConsequences says:

    Mary Church attacking a church?
    I wonder if cosmic irony?
    If you are so anxious to kill the unborn, then please do not join the catholic church and you should have nothing to fear.
    I worry about those who worry so much about controlling another’s freedom of religious choice.
    Perhaps you would feel more comfortable in Afghanistan?

  11. charliebucket says:

    another thing slug….if an Islamic Cleric was lobbying congress or the President to get laws passed limiting others’ freedoms (like the Catholic Church is doing) or was a potential US Presidential candidate who was campaigning on his religious beliefs and implying we all have to follow his beliefs(like Santorum), then I would be on this blog saying the same things about Islam as the Catholic Church. And I do say the same thing about the modern evangelical Christians who seem to want their version of Christian law as civil law(anti gay for example).

    The Catholic Church seems to want America run by Catholic law and that is never gonna fly and they open themselves up to criticism by trying to insert their beliefs into MY government. It is not about hating the Church, it is about speaking up about what they are doing.

  12. GHTaxPayer says:

    No attacks on women coming from the Catholic church. Women are free to buy and take birth control, the church just doesn’t want to be forced to pay for it.
    The real story here is why Obama and Dems are attacking religious freedoms – what our country was FOUNDED on. The Democratic party wants to control what you eat, what you watch, what you listen to and what you pray to. Maybe this is why the Communists, Socialist, Nazis, Muslim Brotherhood, and Black Panthers all call the Democratic party their home and make huge donations to Obama.

    Bill Maher, David Letterman and many others have made vicious attacks against women of faith – and then happily donated to Obama & the Democratic party. This is why women of faith overwhelmingly support Mitt Romney and are disgusted by Obama and his anti-woman policies.

    Why would Obama donate taxpayer money to Muslim Brotherhood and Palestine, who are the worst oppressors of women on the face of the earth?

    Why did Obama just kick 324,000 women off the unemployment ranks to make his numbers look better?

    Why are men in the Obama cabinet making 19% MORE than their female counterparts?

  13. GHTaxPayer says:

    Most of the libs are unaware that going to church is voluntary. They are so used to being told what to do because of their belief in nanny-statism. Next thing you know Obama will be sending them “Hope & Change” toilet paper to help wipe their butts.

    Come to think of it – that’s about all Obama is good for. Everything he’s touched has turned to s__t.

  14. philichi says:

    Charliebucket, you are welcome home any time.

    The Catholic understanding of contraceptive is not intended to harm women it is intended to lift them up.

    Catholics believe that the Pill is merely a way for men to avoid commitment. Catholics believe that women should not be put under the pressure of free sex. They believe that treating a lady like a sex object is wrong. Notice the comments, it is the men that are most upset.

    Studies are now showing that contraceptives have added a dramatic increase in occurences of breast cancer in women. Catholics have these restrictions because they love women, not because they want to harm them.

  15. “So, here is my point. If you, in your selfish little world wish to rule over males – then that is exactly what you should do. But before you go all willy nilly telling someone else what they should and shouldn’t do, make sure your world is perfect.”

    Well now if this isn’t the ‘hypocrisy moment’ for today I don’t know what is!

  16. Followed closely by the lies that need to be repeated often…

    “The real story here is why Obama and Dems are attacking religious freedoms”

    The right wing is as predictable as the tides.

  17. TheLawOfUnintendedConsequences says:

    Kluwer again without a clue.
    No one is forced to join the catholic church.
    Those who do so are exercising their God-given freedoms.
    Too bad statists have no klu of what freedom means, nor the responsibility it entails.
    Drink your Kool Aid and bury your head once more.
    The only people seeking to force anything on others are those nanny-staters who think they know what is best for all…

  18. sumyungboi says:

    charlie: “as far as the Catholic church is concerned, some of their rituals and rules are why I left. Their birth control position and women not allowed to be ordained are 2 of the big reasons”

    See how that works? You didn’t like the church. You left the church. End of your participation.

    Some people like the Catholic Church, and don’t appreciate non-Catholics pushing non-Catholic religious beliefs on them and their families.

  19. GHTaxPayer says:

    Even more evidence of Obama and Dem supporters willingness to show violence against women without regret. Caution, this is pretty disgusting:

    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/05/south-carolina-afl-cio-leader-bashes-nikki-haley-pinata/

  20. charliebucket says:

    no thanks phil. I have a new church home that is free from the guilt, shaming and blaming and archaic dogma. it is also free from insisting that it’s teachings are the only way and that other religions or churches are not legitimate. my church also does not preach from the pulpit or tell us how to think or how to vote. it also takes a realistic look at what the lack of birth control usage has done to the population and to the resources of the planet and done to increase the poverty roles. my Catholic church taught that sex is only for procreation and that birth control limits God’s will for procreation and that is why it is not to be used, it was never about empowering women.

    The longer I am gone from the Catholic church the more I realized I was brainwashed and held down by fear of a God striking me down. The other issue is that the Catholic Church, lately, does not seem to grasp the separation of church and state so that is another big red flag for me.

    thanks but no thanks.

  21. charliebucket says:

    sum, you just don’t get it. The Catholic Church is trying to tell non catholics what to do. I don’t give a rat’s ass what catholics do in church or at home or anywhere else as long as they don’t try to make their religious beliefs and rules MY rules. Nobody is telling Catholics they have to use birth control or marry gay people or anything but they are telling us we can’t do things that are against THEIR religion. that is just not OK.

    and GH, your comments are absurd hype and nothing but fear mongering rhetoric. as usual.

  22. “Catholics believe that the Pill is merely a way for men to avoid commitment.”

    True commitment would be using the pill as you and your doctor agreed and still being faithful.

    Catholics believe that control is commitment

  23. It’s nice to see our returning members. Hopefully they have created their own email addresses with their own name.

    I still agree that the best way to provide a message is to lighten the collection plate by not showing up. Faith doesn’t require dogma, ritual or a building.

  24. philichi says:

    Larry: “True commitment would be using the pill as you and your doctor agreed and still being faithful”

    So, if your doctor said it was OK and your church said it wasn’t, than it is OK. What if it was the other way around? To some, including many doctors, their church is very important to them.

  25. “A number of studies suggest that current use of oral contraceptives (birth control pills) appears to slightly increase the risk of breast cancer, especially among younger women. However, the risk level goes back to normal 10 years or more after discontinuing oral contraceptive use.” – National Cancer Institute.

    Since air pollution is probably more of a carcinogen, I hope the Catholic Church gets behind the EPA and supports their efforts.

    Mr. P – can you twist my statement any further away to deflect? You claimed the church opposed birth control for purposes of faithfulness in marriage. I just demonstrated how ridiculous your comment was in real life. The doctor didn’t give anyone a license to cheat on their spouse, yet you come up with that ludicrous “what if”?

    I’m sort of a traditionalist about this. I use doctors for science stuff and religion for mythology. When I had a heart attack about 10 years ago, I went to the doctor, not a church.

  26. “kill the unborn”

    Speaking of irony….

  27. slugoxyz says:

    So glad everyone is so absolutely sure of what everyone else’s religion should look like.

    No need to think for ourselves. Larry is going to tell us how to do it. Thanks Larry. And to think, I had actually thought about my faith when all I had to do was read one sentence. “Faith doesn’t require dogma, ritual or a building”. Perfect! And Larry, since I assume you came up with this statement/rule/canon on your own – are you sure you’re right? Because there are 1.1 Billion (+/-) Catholics that think you’re wrong. I was raised Episcopalian (Catholic Lite) and I think that religion needs just a little ritual (prayer) even if it’s been years since I stepped foot in a church. I am NOT willing to tell everyone else that their faith is mythology. But that’s just me. But you’re sure enough to tell everybody else on the whole planet what you know is true? I’m sure you are.

  28. hey, slug….I’ll tell you how to create your own email without using someone’s name.

    Aside from that, your silly insult is duely noted.

    There are 2 to 2.2 billion “Christians”, so according to you half of them are Catholics. They are not half of Christianity. Check adherents.com for facts.

    Now, since there are less than 1 billion Catholics but more than 1 Billion Muslims, I guess, in your world of “might makes right”, the Muslims rule.

    As to religion being mythlogy, try – “The term “mythology” can refer either to the study of myths (e.g., comparative mythology), or to a body or collection of myths (a mythos, e.g., Inca mythology).[1] In folkloristics, a myth is a sacred narrative usually explaining how the world or humankind came to be in its present form,[2] although, in a very broad sense, the word can refer to any traditional story.[3] Myths typically involve supernatural characters and are endorsed by rulers or priests. They may arise as overelaborated accounts of historical events, as allegory for or personification of natural phenomena, or as an explanation of ritual. They are transmitted to convey religious or idealized experience, to establish behavioral models, and to teach.”

    If that’s not too difficult to digest, all religion would come under that category.

    When religionists want to air out the laundry in the media, don’t get upset when we who don’t subscribe laugh you off.

  29. “Faith doesn’t require dogma, ritual or a building”

    The legendary Jesus would have agreed, and in fact is “quoted” as much in myth.

  30. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Just when you think he cannot sink any lower.

  31. Take a fall, Francis?

    Pick yourself up. Bottom is when you put the shovel down.

  32. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Answer this question- do you think YOU are smarter then the billions of people that believe in religion?

  33. “No one is forced to join the catholic church.”

    Who said they were?
    Talk about being without a clue….

  34. “Before I start, I should probably give my offering to Kluwer/sewer to ward off his/her nonsensical attacks”

    Wow, look att he hypocrisy in the very first sentence!

  35. charliebucket says:

    larry you are right on as usual.

    as for the trolls and personal insulters who obviously got banned as their old user(s) (you’re welcome) you are useless trolls and not worth the time it would take to tell you off.

  36. bobcat1a says:

    ct7, do you REALLY believe that right is a matter of number of believers? For most of human history, most people believed the world was flat and the sun traveled around the earth.

  37. concernedtacoma7 says:

    I never said it was right. I also have not attacked those who believe in religion. My question had nothing to do with whether religion was right in the scientific meaning of ‘right’.

    Faith is a little more complicated than issues easily solved by science.

  38. “concernedtacoma7 says:
    May 22, 2012 at 5:39 pm Answer this question- do you think YOU are smarter then the billions of people that believe in religion?”

    Well, I’m probably smarter than some and not as smart as others, but there is one thing that I know, absolutely….100% sure…..if you have to believe in something, that is a pretty good sign that it is not real.

    Now, if your constitution is too gentle to understand and accept that all religion is mythological and are easily offended by that truth, please….by all means…..ignore me. It’s not an attack. It’s just an unconvenient truth.

  39. incovenient….LOL

  40. GHTaxPayer says:

    Hey Larry – Do you Believe in “Hope and Change” ? – You must because it definitely aint real !

  41. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Larry- so those that believe in religion are ….? Fill in the blank.

    Are they less ‘smart’ because of their faith?

    Let’s be honest here, you are calling them suckers or idiots. Yes or no?

  42. Frankenchrist says:

    The Catholic Church controls its women much in the same way a fundamentalist Wahabbi Islam controls its women.

  43. averageJoseph says:

    Wow, now I don’t have to whatch the left wing media to know what the current talking points are…

    Women should have absolute control over what they choose to do with their bodies LMAO… you do.

    How is birth control AND abortion being available for you to purchase an infringement on your control of your body?

    Are you having non-consensual sex?

  44. CT – Those that believe in religion are……those that believe in religion. I believe that good things come to those who do good things, but that doesn’t make it an absolute, nor does that make my belief a fact.

    As to saying that “those who believe are “suckers or idiots” I think that came from your comment, not mine.

    GH – I can see change, and hope is an intangible. Change, for instance is the stock market being at 8000 when Obama took over and now being 63% higher at 13,000. If he hoped for that, or if anyone else hoped for it, they got what they hoped for, but that still doesn’t make hope tangible. Didn’t you take philosophy in school?

  45. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Larry, if you are truly as indifferent to those that have faith, why do you post so much on LTEs involving religion?

    I like where you are going, not judging. Keep it up!

  46. charliebucket says:

    right on larry as usual.

  47. GHTaxPayer says:

    Hey Larry – $5 Trillion new debt, record high food stamps & poverty, 7.6 Million people lost their jobs JUST THIS YEAR, $4.15 gas = EPIC FAILURE OF BARACK OBAMA AND SOCIALIST IDEOLOGY.

    And I forgot to mention that Wall St. is seeing record profits under Obama. He’s the best president Wall St. money can buy.

    Have a good time philosophizing about that.

  48. whitecap says:

    Mary… I don’t have time to read all the posts, so if others have already said this, sorry. I’m particularily struck by one of your statements: “Women should have absolute control over what they choose to do with their bodies.” Did you think through the implications of that idea. Pretty scary.

  49. Hey GH. The president prior to Obama DOUBLED the debt. Obama has slowed it down to 50% growth. AMAZING, huh??? $4.15 a gallon??? That’s less than 2008 under the last President. WOW!!! How many of those jobs were in the Federal Government? You see that is who Obama is CEO of. He doesn’t run any private businesses, so he isn’t responsible for laying off people to send their jobs overseas. INCREDIBLE, huh? But this stuff is really for another thread, no?

    Now, Francis, I’m really glad that you think I’m not “judging”. I’m really glad that you were able to post a few comments without infantile name calling.

  50. scooter6139 says:

    Average – “How is birth control AND abortion being available for you to purchase an infringement on your control of your body?”

    Do you need a list of Republican controlled states that are trying to or have already blocked access to abortions? Coupled with the language used by some that can actually make use of the pill illegal? Not to forget the asinine conservative republican idea of “personhood” at conception or even a week before conception.

    So I believe that would be an infringement on the control of ones body. “Republican War on Women” and all.

  51. concernedtacoma7 says:

    You never answered the question. If you are indifferent, why do you wallpaper every thread on religion?

    And Bush overspending justifies BHO overspending? Great logic.

  52. “And Bush overspending justifies BHO overspending? Great logic.”

    You do know that spending was increasing and an alarming rate under bush the failure but has gone DOWN under President Obama.
    Once again you fall for your failed media, the media that lies to you day after day, issue after issue. Why do you believe them time after time?

  53. averageJoseph says:

    Yes scooter, I need a list. Links would be nice too. Thanks.

  54. inhoc1618 says:

    @GHTaxPayer…You haven’t traveled around the world much have you. I think you should take a trip to countries in Europe or S. America and you can see what real ‘socialism’ is. We are no where near socialism in this country. Both parties want to control things, i.e. neo-cons in states proposing laws to make women wait a day before an abortion or making them view an ultrasound of an unborn fetus before having an abortion. Is this not an attempt to control? Or how about GOP’ers advocating the control of people who are not heterosexual? Is there not a concerted effort to control those people from being free and marrying? Would love to hear an attempt to justify your opinions. Would appreciate you doing some of your own ‘free’ thinking too instead of using talking points from people who agree with you. If I wanted to hear that all I have to do is turn on the TV to FakeNews.

  55. inhoc1618 says:

    Wow!
    Glad to see there are sane people out here on the “LEFT COAST”
    Thanks to those of you who had my back!
    Mary C.

  56. Most american catholic women are probably beyond the age were birth control is needed. However, the catholic church happily pays for the little blue pills – they really need that ;)

  57. averageJoseph says:

    Scooter, I am left wondering what your response would be if I had submitted links to support my opinion that leaned to the right. Really.

  58. scooter6139 says:

    Average – As I thought, you can’t argue with the facts provided. Thanks for admitting you were incorrect.

    PS – I would argue the assumptions in your article and your facts if they were incorrect. Go ahead and post some links that support your assertion that republicans are not trying to block abortions in the states and how that is not an infringement of the control of womens bodies.

  59. averageJoseph says:

    Hard to prove a negative.

    btw, I was fibbing… I know all to well what your response would have been.

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