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DEBT: Republicans set stage for confrontation

Letter by Larry P. Hill, Olympia on May 18, 2012 at 12:31 pm with 261 Comments »
May 18, 2012 2:31 pm

With the debt ceiling deadline looming, Republicans (both brands) in Congress are setting the stage to put another mark against our nation’s creditworthiness with their political gamesmanship.

Luckily for the GOP, it has a base of voters spoiling for this fight, due to their ignorance on the issue. This has nothing to do with anything but bellying up to the bar and paying our tab for debts already created. All of this political posturing does nothing but smear the good name of the United States, as we already witnessed, and secures points with voters that the Republicans would have already had.

The old saying is that insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. If Congress really wants to lower the debt, do so with a 50 percent reduction in defense spending, which should still position the U.S. as the largest defense spender in the world. Meanwhile, pay for the toys we already bought.

Don’t taint the good name of the United States for the sake of posturing for voters who are a shoe-in come November. The rest of us care about our collective appearance in financial circles.

Leave a comment Comments → 261
  1. averageJoseph says:

    LMFAO @ Larry.

  2. Fibonacci says:

    The “compromise” made the last time the Cons got us into this mess would call for certain automatic cuts, half to the military half to social programs. I just don’t see the right wing teaparty nut jobs cutting the military one thin dime.

    It would be great of the Republicans would actually represent main stream America rather than the fools in the Tea-Party. I just don’t understand why they kiss Tea Party booty, it is not like if they don’t the Tea party will vote for Democrats.

  3. The GOP’s goal isn’t debt reduction, it’s gaining political power. As Mitch McConnell said: “The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.”

    Not jobs.

    Not the economy.

    Not the debt.

    Not even the war on terror.

  4. LMFAO at Josef.

  5. philichi says:

    The mark against our nation’s credit wasn’t for the reason that liberals have come to say, which was the long confrontation in Congress. The downgrade by credit agencies was because no real cuts were made. Liberals made the story up.

    Liberals always look at the defense department as their place for money to run their silly ideas. You know, the $77 trillion dollar mess that they got our children stuck with like Medicare and social security obligations.

    One reason that our dollar is still the reserve currency is because we have a strong defense. We can defend our contracts and keep the oceans safe for shipments. Those “toys” that you write about are the only reason that all of us aren’t slaves to another nation right now

    If we were not the reserve currency we wouldn’t be able to finance are bloated $16 trillion debt at low rates. If the rates were not this low, we would be close to the end like Greece is now.

  6. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Dems haven’t passed a budget in years. BHO promised to cut the deficit.

    Who is to blame? The boogieman Teaparty or Reid and the do nothing Senate?

    Sorry Larry, we cannot spend more then we take in, at this amount, forever

  7. “Sorry Larry, we cannot spend more then we take in, at this amount, forever”

    Nice strawman. Nobody ever said we could.

  8. averageJoseph says:

    Chip off the ol’ block there e…
    ……..
    Barry’s goal is…

    Not jobs.
    Not the economy.
    Not the debt.
    Not even the war on terror…

    it’s “to fundamentally tranform America” into a nation under the dictates of the U.N.
    it’s to “spread it around”, that is, the redistribution of wealth.

    it’s to drive energy costs so high that average Americans will HAVE to rely on big government for their basic needs.

    it’s to punish success and reward sloth…

  9. CT – you actally got one thing right. We can not spend more than we take in. So why is the party of norquest so set on cutting taxes?

  10. Ahh, more fantasy from Josef. how unexpected.

  11. philichi says:

    xring, watch the news on Greece, Spain, and all of the others this weekend. We are very close to the same fate.

    None of our countries have a revenue problem. We all need to trasform the the obligations of government.

    Slashing and cutting is our only cure. Liberalism has failed. It is now over. It has destroyed California, most of Europe, and maybe the US. We really just have this last chance.

  12. charliebucket says:

    I think you have it backwards phil. Uber conservatism has failed.

  13. philichi says:

    charliebucket “uber consevatism” What is that? Does that mean being worried about the financial future of our nation? Count me in.

  14. menopaws says:

    Some of you have to read the S&P report. It stated quite clearly that the inability of Congress to work towards creating reasonable solutions that both parties could agree to was a MAJOR factor in the downgrade. This group of Tea Party whack jobs somehow celebrates it’s total ignorance of fiscal responsibility by doubling down once again. These are debts already run up—-like refusing to make your car payments or your house payments there are consequences………I am so damn tired of the level of sheer stupidity of this crowd of so-called patriots, that I can only hope that there are enough voters like me out there to send them back to their caves……………You don’t tell the world that the United States of American refuses to honor it’s debts and is reneging on it’s prior obligations and get to claim that you are a patriot. All you are saying is that this country is a deadbeat that skips out on paying it’s bills. Much like the gentleman from Florida who hasn’t paid his child support in a very long time……..One of the Tea Party’s finest, in fact. This kind of stupidity must NOT be rewarded at the ballot box…….Sensible grown-ups don’t behave this way.

  15. “Slashing and cutting is our only cure”

    Sure. After all, it worked so well in 1937.

  16. LornaDoone says:

    :)

  17. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Pay for the toys. Sure. Now pay for the entitlements also.

    And don’t ask the military to respond to every natural disaster around the globe. Don’t ask the military to intervene in genocide.

    And when the next war pops up and we are unprepared, Larry will sign up all his relatives first as cannon fodder, I am sure.

    The dems want to hand more cash to China in payments (while devaluing the dollar in process), hand more cash to the ME and hostile regimes for oil, all while focusing on social issues and Travon Martin.

  18. 1937. The economy was recovering from the crash of 1929. GDP, production, profits, and wages had all achieved their pre-crash levels. Unemployment was high (14%), but was down about 50% from its high point.

    Sound familiar?

    Then, concerned about the deficit and egged on by conservatives, the federal government cut spending.

    Guess what happened? Removing a large amount of money from a fragile recovering economy caused it to tank again. The GDP dropped. Unemployment spiked to 19%. The stock market and production both dropped by more than 30%. We didn’t recover until WWII.

    Of course, the massive WWII deficits had absolutely no impact on the economy, did they? No, of course not. All that spending didn’t stimulate the economy at all, did it?

    1937 was the second-worst economic downturn of the 20th Century, but people don’t know about it because it was overshadowed by the 1929 crash.

    And the wrong wing wants to do exactly the same thing that caused the economy to tank in 1937. One of the definitions of insanity is doing the same thing multiple times while expecting different results.

  19. concernedtacoma7 says:

    1937 was not as simple as a cut in govt spending. From wiki-

    “Economists disagree about the causes of this downturn. Keynesian economists assign blame to cuts in federal spending and increases in taxes at the insistence of the US Treasury,[4] while monetarists, such as Milton Friedman, assign blame to the Federal Reserve’s tightening of the money supply in 1936 and 1937.[5] Austrian school economist Johnathan Catalan assigns blame to the relatively large expansion of the money supply from 1933 to 1937. He also notes that the money supply did not tighten until after the recession began.[6]”

    Now, since the left has fallen head over heels in love with keynes, your bias affects your understanding.

    Post WWII we had the only manufacturing base left in the first world. That is why we had a strong economy for decades, we were rebuilding europe and asia.

    In 1937 what was our debt per capita? We are in a different boat, different time, different economy today. The govt requirements were different. Imagine what the govt could do today if we were not saddled with the huge debt and entitlement spending.

  20. “Keynesian economists assign blame to cuts in federal spending and increases in taxes at the insistence of the US Treasury,[4] while monetarists, such as Milton Friedman, assign blame to the Federal Reserve’s tightening of the money supply in 1936 and 1937

    Exactly. Taking money out of the economy by reducing spending, and making what money’s left harder to get. A double whammy. Thanks for proving my point.

  21. If I may quote the letter writer:

    “Luckily for the GOP, it has a base of voters spoiling for this fight, due to their ignorance on the issue.”

    ;)

  22. Or, to paraphrase, those who are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it.

  23. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Other 1937 theories-

    http://www.voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/6965

    http://mises.org/daily/4039

    “The actual lessons of Roosevelt’s Recession are much different. The 1937–1938 dip was not the product of tight fiscal and monetary policy, but of excessive government regulation and loose monetary policy. We must clear away the misconception that, without deficit spending and easy credit, the market will fail.”

    Obvious bias in article #2, but that does not make their research or points any less valid.

    Interesting topic though, thanks for bringing it up.

  24. We’ll start with this one:

    “concernedtacoma7 says:
    May 18, 2012 at 4:59 pm Pay for the toys. Sure. Now pay for the entitlements also.
    And don’t ask the military to respond to every natural disaster around the globe. Don’t ask the military to intervene in genocide.
    And when the next war pops up and we are unprepared, Larry will sign up all his relatives first as cannon fodder, I am sure.”

    Let’s take last, first. Larry doesn’t sign up his relatives. They volunteer, just like any other volunteer. In Larry’s nuclear family he has had people serve in the military, just like other families….but wait….what does THAT have to do with funding the military to excess? Nothing, of course. It’s just a personal insult attempted, so that later Francis can complain about personal insults.

    The spending on our military exceeds all of the spending on the top 13 militaries worldwide – COMBINED!!! I’m certain there is enough money to pay for them to do the job required, regardless of what that job is.

    “Pay for entitlements”. How much Social Security money has already paid for war implements via “loans”? We’ll never really know. When we start spending taxpayers money on domestic issues to protect the citizenry from hunger, homelessness and disease, we’ll be spending our money on much better programs than what we can destroy and then pay to replace. The poor and sick don’t have the lobbyists that the military industrial complex does, so the less informed will always think that taking care of our own is wrong, while filling the pockets of defense contractors is right.

  25. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Larry, the military is CLEARLY state as a requirement in the Constitution. Entitlements and charity? Not in there.

    Millions of people flock to America, running from socialism and communism. Not the progressives want us to adopt failed policies based on emotion.

    Thanks for ruining an interesting thread, Larry.

  26. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Better yet, give the taxpayers back their money and let them take care of themselves. Keep a small tax for law and order/defense.

    Good point Larry.

  27. “Larry, the military is CLEARLY state as a requirement in the Constitution.”

    Where does it say we need nuclear weapons? Is that between the lines and only seen by conservatives? Where does it say in the Constitution that we must outspend thirteen other countries combined? I guess you need the Glenn Beck pocket Constitution for those amendments.

    Why don’t you conservative stop with the “it’s not in the Constitution” crap? You keep making yourselves look ridiculous.

    The taxpayers pay taxes for services. These billionaires would not have made their money without services from the government. How much money would Koch have made in transportation if they had to build their own Interstate network of highways? And if they did, then you’d never be able to use them without paying a hefty fee…..(see railroads).

    Not all Ameicans are capable of caring for themselves. We are a UNITED States, not a “ME, ME, MINE, MINE States”. Quit being so unpatiotic.

  28. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Quit blaming the rich. They pay many times over for what they receive in direct or indirect benefits from the govt.

    Ditch your emotional arguments. Individual responsibility is foreign to you.

    And we should never stop saying “it’s not in the Constitution”. You, and the far left, like to pick and choose what parts you think should be followed.

    I got it, you hate the military and the Church. You are an extreme, ungrateful minority.

    Of course you had to make this thread about individuals, you or me and not all Americans.

  29. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    The three faces of Eve all neatly appearing in one LTE and two subsequent posts – how cute. I guess we’re over the denial stage.

    Oh… did I forget the Seven Dwarfs?

    Not even a single original talking point in this… letter.

  30. Frankenchrist says:

    GOP = Party of Draft-Dodgers.

  31. bobcat1a says:

    “If cutting taxes on the rich really created jobs, we’d be drowning in jobs.” -Nick Hanauer, billionaire venture capitalist

  32. “the progressives want us to adopt failed policies based on emotion.”

    Says someone who wants to repeat 1937. ROFL

  33. “you hate the military and the Church”

    Ahem. Message. Messenger. Ring any bells?

  34. averageJoseph says:

    Larry/Lorna what else is new… same lame. :(

  35. Francis…..each evening, as the hours progress, you get increasingly odd – angry and unable to follow the comments that people make. I reminds me of how I acted prior to September of 1988, when I decided that alcohol didn’t work well for me. But I digress….

    I don’t “hate” the military, since I’ve had many friends serve, as well as family members. I do, however think that entirely too much money is being spent when we outspend thirteen nations collectively. Please tell me you can see the difference between your allegation of hate and my clarification of financial logic. I don’t hate religion, I recognize religion for what it is and I don’t participate in it. There is a big difference between that and hate….here’s an example:

    No one has to agree with homosexuality, but trying to stop homosexuals from marrying and having a life together is hate.

    Get it? You see, you don’t have to endorse something (I don’t endorse religion), but allow others their right (if you want religion, go to church and get some)

    Now….let’s tie all of this into your statement – “Of course you had to make this thread about individuals” at which time I blew my juice drink out of my nose when I laughed. You have painfully tried to level personal insults at me, that have nothing to do with the subject matter at hand – NATIONAL DEBT – and then accuse me of making this thread about individuals?????

    Please. There is a book about taking 12 steps. Pick one.

  36. ehill….if Francis were close to accurate, I’d forgive the obvious attempt to smear, but he’s reminiscent of a staggering drunk saying “I can walk across this lake if you’d just get outta the boat”

    His accussation is senseless and has nothing to do with anything I’ve said.

    Bobcat – I saw Hanauer on TV tonight. What a facinating guy! A billionaire that doesn’t blame the country because he doesn’t have more money! He actually said that he doesn’t create jobs, customers create jobs, so if he had more customers he have to hire more people making more customers. I guess the glass is half full.

  37. “These billionaires would not have made their money without services from the government. How much money would Koch have made in transportation if they had to build their own Interstate network of highways?”

    Now Francis….tell us how the above statement – the one I made – is BLAMING rich people?

    I made a point. Without infrastructure, they’d not be enjoying their wealth. They’d be paying solely on their own for their transportation needs alone. Could you imagine them fronting the capital to build the interstate highways system before moving their cargo?

    I know, I know….I’m making it far too complicated for you.

  38. took14theteam says:

    ::::::shakes head at the Olympia gang:::::::

  39. Isn’t it fun when we kinda stick to the subject of the letter and ignore the trolls?

    Night all!!

    :)

  40. ::::::shakes head at the feeble attempt at an insult:::::::

  41. <—- lives in South Kitsap

  42. “you had to make this thread about individuals”

    ROFLMAO – scroll back up and read the very first post in this thread, pal. Here, I’ll make it easy for you: “LMFAO @ Larry”

    Now, just who was it who made it about individuals? Comedy gold!

  43. “He actually said that he doesn’t create jobs, customers create jobs”

    Perhaps that’s why they call it the law of supply and demand.

  44. charliebucket says:

    right on ehill and larry.

  45. concernedtacoma7 says:

    “right on”? Is this the 1990′s/Cali?

    It’s Larry and his ? (anyone know the relation?) stopping any decent conversation. Pathetic. Ehill was close, then realized he was almost being civil, then ran to lardnos. .

    Cheers Larry!! Here’s to another day of me telling the truth and you spewing failed, left wing talking points.

    Read more here: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/letters/2012/05/18/here-we-go-again-3/#comment-219842#storylink=cpy

  46. menopaws says:

    Herbert Hoover, a Republican, was in charge when the Depression began. George Bush Junior was in charge in 2008 when this meltdown began. It is just that simple. Learn from our history or vote to repeat it. We owe these debts and if this country welches out on its obligations—-I will be ashamed of what we have become. You don’t justify selling off a nation’s integrity for politics………..If you believe the Tea Party has that right—go look for your patriotism and think very hard about what your vote means.

  47. To the users of LMFAO: Is it really necessary to be so crude? Ladies and Gentlemen should know enough of the English language to be able to express their opinions in different phrases.

  48. “concernedtacoma7 says:
    May 19, 2012 at 1:10 am”

    I rest my case.

    Menopaws – your comment is specifically the issue. The debt ceiling has nothing to do about accruing additional debt. It’s all about endorsing payment of debt incurred.

    There is the point. The Republicans and TeaPublicans have become masters of manipulating this issue to a voting base that sits in the corner waiting for a fight, when none exists. Meanwhile they will beat the drum about “we need to focus on the economy”. That’s like telling your spouse you need to watch the family budget after the money is spent. I makes for nice “I told you so” conversation, but your creditors still want to get paid.

  49. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Nice try, but no. Someone has to the adult in the room.

    While most of the money required when the debt ceiling is raised was already obligated, under normal circumstances a budget passed by congress is the blueprint for those obligations.

    Since the left side of the aisle wants to play games, not pass budgets, and kick every hard decision down the road someone has to stand up for America.

    Both parties spent like idiots for the last 30 years. It has increasingly gotten more ridiculous and structural. Now we are at a breaking point and the left wants to ignore it.

    Speaking of repeating mistakes, the huge spending from Bush II on show Keynes is a failed method of reviving the economy. Time to be adults and spend within our means. It is called a budget, and right now the dems are in the way, not the boogie man or the Tea party.

  50. It’s clear that the GOP can’t win the election on policy, they can’t win on popularity as even they can’t stand romney, so they are left with the same old tried and true, destroy the economy and ramp up the politics of personal destruction.

    When your party can’t run or win on policy, you have to ask yourself, ‘why am I in that party’?

  51. “Dems haven’t passed a budget in years”

    Repeat the lie often enough…..

  52. “watch the news on Greece, Spain, and all of the others this weekend. We are very close to the same fate.”

    And look at what they tried to do to solve their problems….cuts, cuts and more cuts.
    Funny how you conservatives always point to others and whine, ‘that could be us’ and then offer up the very same thing ‘they’ were doing!
    What is wrong with you people?

  53. “give the taxpayers back their money and let them take care of themselves. Keep a small tax for law and order/defense.”

    You do know that is how we got to the place we are now…..don’t you?
    When will you wise up and admit your ‘plan’ doesn’t work?
    We have been living your ‘conservative’ ideals now for 30 years….how’s it worked out?

  54. “Someone has to the adult in the room.”,/i>

    Yep. You could use some supervision.

  55. took14theteam says:

    Who the hell is Francis, Larry?

  56. Francis – try boning up on the debt ceiling:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_debt-ceiling_crisis

    Budgets are money that hasn’t been spent

  57. “give the taxpayers back their money and let them take care of themselves. Keep a small tax for law and order/defense.”

    A perfect example of a kneejerk reaction to the real challenges of running a government.

    Under this concept, where would the money come from for the Federal Aviation Administration, or do you just let air traffic manage itself?

    Want to let the drug companies run the show, or should there be a regulatory body to make sure that people don’t get killed and the pharms say “sorry, my bad”?

    Should we keep letting food processors put anything and everything into the food we eat, all in the name of profits? (and they worry about a story about someone eating dog meat….)

    Running a government takes serious work and it’s been demonstrated over and over that the GOP is too kneejerk to get the job done.

  58. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Yes Larry, it is serious work. And in the middle of all our problems we have the least productive Senate (dem led for the uninformed) in decades.

    We have showboating clowns focused on Travon Martin wearing hoodies in the chamber and gay marriage as a national priority.

    Nice straw man. Your solution is what? Keep kicking the can down down the road. Keep pushing failed Keynsian big govt, big spending even though we are beyond broke. Devalue the dollar until the paper is worth more then the currency. Regulate to the point that you cannot start a business or build a house. Take away all of the earners income and let the govt spread it aroun as they see fit.

    Great plan. $5tril dollars the economy is flatlined. SS and Medicare are on a path toward bankrupting the nation and the left ignores it.

    Yes, we need adults and they all have an R after their name

  59. “And in the middle of all our problems we have the least productive Senate (dem led for the uninformed) in decades.”

    Wow, I thought all you “small government” wrong-wingers would be happy with that. Guess not.

  60. “Your solution is what?”

    And yours seems to be to create 1937 all over again.

  61. “Obvious bias in article #2, but that does not make their research or points any less valid.”

    Of course it does, an “obvious” bias in fact calls all their ‘research’ into question….unless you agree with and are on the same side as their bias.
    Anyone with a brain knows that.

  62. “Herbert Hoover, a Republican, was in charge when the Depression began. George Bush Junior was in charge in 2008 when this meltdown began”

    Not only that but BOTH depressions followed years of republican total control of the govt.

  63. “economy is flatlined”

    Well that is obviously the new talking point from the conservatives, but let’s examine the reality of this.

    In 2009, the stock market was about 8000 and recently topped 13,000. Now someone explain how a 62.5% increase in the stock market could represent a “flatlined economy”.

    “SS and Medicare are on a path toward bankrupting the nation and the left ignores it.”

    That is just a plain lie. Social Security, if you didn’t change a thing, has solvency for 20 plus years. Take away the $106,000 cut off and it’s solvent for ever. What have the Democrats done about it? Suggested the removal of the cut off. The GOP won’t participate.

    I note Francis likes to focus on the Senate. Why not bring up the progress of the Republican Majority House of Representatives? With Boehner on the golf course, we get about 3 days a week out of them and they spend that taking away as many laws protecting women, poor and frail as they possibly can.

  64. ehill, the right NEEDS the economy/country to crash….soon.
    It’s their only hope of winning back the only thing they crave and care about, power.
    The country be damned as long as the republican party has power.
    Party first, country last.

  65. “We have showboating clowns focused on Travon Martin wearing hoodies in the chamber and gay marriage as a national priority.”

    Well, I admit it’s not Reverend Wright, bare arms, Bill Ayers, birth certificates, gay sex in limos, etc, but I do see a value in making sure that we don’t have vigilantes stalking kids and killing them and that all Americans have equal rights.

    (here comes “gay marriage isn’t in the Constitution)

  66. kluwer….think about it, who can afford for the economy to crash? Those who have cash in offshore accounts.

    Now, would that be me and you, or for that matter CT7? Of course not. The wealthy elite – Romney, Koch, et al are the ones that play in that league.

    If they make the economy crash they could have everyone on their knees and be laughing all the way to their offshore banks.

  67. blakeshouse says:

    With all the nonsensical blather emanating from all the idiot socialist/neomarxists here I doubt collectively they could pour piss out f a boot with the instructions written on the heel

  68. blakeshouse – we stand in awe of your command of economics. Did you just learn that?

  69. concernedtacoma7 says:

    More conspiracy from the loons.

    If you wanted a crash you would simply continue dem policies. Spend and spen until you can no longer borrow or tax. Regulate until all business and wealth moves overseas.

    No one wants a crash. Grow up.

    Selective quoting on the “rich”. Where is Soros, Pelosi, BHO, on your list? Who loses the most in a crash?

    Funny that you try and shift the thread on your own letter. A new low.

    And SS? We are already borrowing to pay the old folks. There is no mythical bank account full of cash, just IOUs from the same bank account. You really eat up the rhetoric while ignoring facts.

    And do you really support NOT having a budget??

  70. “More conspiracy from the loons.”

    CT7, why do you post here?

  71. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Don’t deflect. You can be better than this. Come on buddy, sell your side’s perspective. At least try.

  72. “concernedtacoma7 says:
    May 19, 2012 at 11:16 am More conspiracy from the loons.”

    “Don’t deflect. You can be better than this”

    I makes me think he doesn’t even know what he’s posting most of the time.

    “And do you really support NOT having a budget??”

    This is a demonstration of the ignorance of which I spoke. Of course, there is a budget – they continue to use the old budget until a new one is agreed upon.

    If the GOP really wants a new budget, how about drafting one that doesn’t include elimination of Medicare which would have mass anarchy in the United States?

  73. “Soros, Pelosi, BHO”

    Pelosi and Obama couldn’t even carry Soros’ money to the bank. How ridiculous.

    Soros would survive a crash, I’m sure, but I don’t see him complaining about paying taxes and other functions of the government.

    Look at which billionaires are constantly haranging about taxes and you’ll know who wants to see the country fail.

  74. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Ok Larry, point me to a quote where a billionaire republican is asking for only their taxes to be cut. Thanks!

    As to Soros, he wants to fundamentally change America. Scary stuff.

    3 years of continuing resolutions is a budget? Kicking the tough decisions down the road. No honor or reason from Larry or the left.

    Nice conspiracy theory though. Makes you sound real sane. Keep it up.

    Eliminate Medicare? Please show me that in the budget approved by the House. Thanks again! And facts please, no rhetoric or YouTube videos of grandma going over a cliff.

    While we are talking about the dems great economic plan, taxageddon is about cripple the economy. Thanks dems!

  75. “More conspiracy from the loons”

    Yes, when will you cons listen to the facts and open your eyes to the real world?

  76. “As to Soros, he wants to fundamentally change America.”

    More of your right wing lies. Do you get paid to repeat them often?

  77. “No one wants a crash.”

    Who said you ‘wanted’ a crash?
    The GOP NEEDS a crash and they are doing everything they can to get it!
    Party first, country last, thats the GOP motto.

  78. “And SS? We are already borrowing to pay the old folks. There is no mythical bank account full of cash, just IOUs from the same bank account. You really eat up the rhetoric while ignoring facts.”

    You’re not really this stupid are you?
    Are you?

  79. “fundamentally change America”

    Good….I’d hate to think of where we’d be if someone hadn’t helped change America along the way….

    Slavery….

    Women’s right to vote….

  80. “CT7, why do you post here?”

    He craves the public humiliation.

  81. “Ok Larry, point me to a quote where a billionaire republican is asking for only their taxes to be cut.”

    KANSAS CITY, Mo. — A Kansas group’s public campaign to eliminate the state’s income taxes has received financial support from a billionaire in Missouri who is funding a similar effort in his home state.

    Travis Brown, the president of a group hoping to get an income tax measure on the ballot in Missouri, said Rex Sinquefield contributed recently to Kansans for No Income Tax.

    Is your google broken? That took less than a minute.

  82. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Were those fundemental changes? To individuals, not the system.

    Try again.

  83. menopaws says:

    If keeping our word means nothing—guess what?? We are nothing……a sad impotent joke that like the roman empire fell due ti dissipation and lazy ignorance. I honor my obligations and those who don’t aren’t worthy of anyone’s respect—contempt maybe, but not respect. the Tea Party is made up of people who don’t seem to understand the integrity and honor that has sustained this country. Simple solutions for simple minds…….

  84. “Don’t deflect”

    Oh, I see. It’s only deflection when other people ask that question, but not when you do it. Thanks for the excellent display of the term “double standard.”

  85. “As to Soros, he wants to fundamentally change America. Scary stuff.”

    Heaven is living your dreams. Hell is living your fears.

  86. lylelaws says:

    LarryHill

    Glad that you finally stepped up and wrote something using your real name, but at least five of your twenty or so add-on comments were longer than the 250 word limit for Letters to the Editor.

    It seems that people who have the least to add to the conversation often use the most words to try and convince others.

  87. Lyle…since you added nothing to the discussion on the subject, what category do you fall in?

  88. “concernedtacoma7 says:
    May 19, 2012 at 2:52 pm Were those fundemental changes? To individuals, not the system.”

    You’re not very good at rhetoric roulette, Francis. Give it up. I don’t think you can look much more ignorant than that statement. If the enslaving of a certain sector of Americans isn’t a “system”, I don’t know what is. If restricting the vote from another sector isn’t a system…..

    Frankly, I don’t know why I waste my time on such infantile issues with you.

  89. “at least five of your twenty or so add-on comments were longer than the 250 word limit for Letters to the Editor.”

    Sorry you’re having trouble following along.

  90. menopaws says:

    Debt ceiling arguments again–markets reacting. Oil industry and Koch Brothers not happy with new drilling regulations- prices up……….Banks raising fees and ignoring Dodd-Frank until required in 2014—more meltdowns………..What does it take for people to realize that until Obama—we had 8 long years of corporations running the government….And, they will do whatever it takes to get that power back–including tanking this economy once again….they’ve got Grover on a short leash, they’ve got a HEDGE fund millionaire running for President……..My teen-age neighbor can connect those dots—and yet, it is always a mental stretch for some of you……..Argue away—you are the propaganda tools of corporate power–and they want it back……….That “socialist” you all whine about is the first President in 16 years to teach them some basic manners in how they conduct their business—-and, it is about time we took our government back from the oil industry and Wall Street…….Get a clue–they are trying to put this economy in the tank to win an election—be sure to let them slip the noose through your nose and lead you to the river–just like the Pied Piper did to get rid of the rats!!!! GM lives and trust me—Romney had nothing to do with it!!!

  91. bobcat1a says:

    For heaven’s sake CT7, PIGGY wants to fundamentally change America. What’s the big deal?

  92. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Larry, I will happily have you think I fail at rhetoric. What I stated was fact, not your beloved rhetoric.

    You are upset there is not a DNC talking point for it.

    Save your time. Stop posting and writing letters. Continue, and I will continue to point out your BS. All day every day, even after a cocktail or 10.

  93. Francis….you’ve just joined the troll pool. You don’t comprehend the English language enough for a good debate.

    “click” ::::::trollBgone copyright LornaDoone:::::::

  94. concernedtacoma7 says:

    I know enough to see the fool you have made of yourself on your own LTE.

    Glad that when people google you, they will see this thread.

  95. sumyungboi says:

    Larry, the letter writer, is right in the sense that we need to drastically reduce federal spending. He wants to do this by cutting defense spending in half, and while most people are open to cutting waste in defense, almost everyone acknowledges the need to cut back on all federal spending. Some people want to be like Europe, and would have you believe they’re the majority, but you know, there’s a reason why we’re us and they’re them. They suck. We didn’t, until recently.

  96. “the letter writer, is right in the sense that we need to drastically reduce federal spending”

    1937 all over again.

  97. yabetchya says:

    My look on the comments of this letter is, that there is a love fest going on. In the shack of LPHill. Now that is creepy. I say let it go on. Incest of the mutipals.

  98. Iceland is the only country that got the solution right – austerity programs for the Banks, not for the people. Wall Street regulates the Dems/Repubs, not the other way around. Austerity programs only work for the 1% who can accumulate more at reduced costs while cutting labor more and more.

  99. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Wow, BB comes back and starts up his #ows BS. When I first got to this blog, I thought you were middle of the road/left leaning. Now you are one with Larry. Emotion over reason, hate over ideas.

    Germany got it right, and the rest of Europe should be thankful.

    Funny that balanced budgets and responsibility has been renamed ‘austerity’. Austerity is a total myth, in Europe and here.

    Responsibility helps 100%, not just the bottom 1% that leech off the producers.

  100. ErnestTBass says:

    Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.
    Give a man a welfare check, a 40 oz. beer and a crack pipe, and he will vote democrat the rest of his life. “www.wildbillforamerica.com”

  101. “Wow, BB comes back and starts up his #ows BS.

    LOL, that’s pretty funny, coming from you, Mr. 1937.

  102. “Some people want to be like Europe, and would have you believe they’re the majority, but you know, there’s a reason why we’re us and they’re them. They suck. We didn’t, until recently.”

    Yep, in 1980 when we went to the conservative ‘trickle down’ of ronnie raygun, we started to suck.
    Now the conservative want us to be even more like Europe and do what they tried, which even the cons admit failed, austerity, cut cut cut.
    Ever notice that the right always wants and fights for things we KNOW don’t work?
    Now we know why they think we “suck”, it’s because they want us to.

  103. “Austerity programs only work for the 1% who can accumulate more at reduced costs while cutting labor more and more.”

    And that is why the GOP is pushing them so hard. We know by looking a Europe that austerity doesn’t work and it never will, no matter how great we think we are.
    The brain dead ‘base’ on the right wants this country to fail, they are convinced that when it does, they and only they will end up rich.
    Pathetic.

  104. Well said menopaws!!!

  105. “Austerity” is what Romney and other venture capitalists use to bankrupt companies.

    If a company is cash poor, they need a combination of healthy spending habits AND an increase in revenue.

  106. Oh…and aside from that…we ARE talking about debt that is already incurred in credit, not future budgeted debt, when talking of the debt ceiling. My quote from the letter stands firm – “Luckily for the GOP, it has a base of voters spoiling for this fight, due to their ignorance on the issue.”

  107. “ErnestTBass says:
    May 20, 2012 at 7:13 am Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.
    Give a man a welfare check, a 40 oz. beer and a crack pipe, and he will vote democrat the rest of his life. “www.wildbillforamerica.com”

    I wonder why there is so much welfare and drug abuse in extremely conservative voting states?

    Stereotypes – racial and otherwise – are usually demonstrated as false.

  108. Lucky for the GOP their base is completely ignorant.

  109. averageJoseph says:

    The circle is complete… LOL.

  110. philichi says:

    I assumed that the left would simply look at the problems that their policies have caused all around the world and apologized. I assumed that they would look at the top heavy government sector of Greece and the rest
    and realized the path that most of their policies produce. I assumed that they would see California and Illinois near failure and see again where their policies of big government lead us.

    This reminds me of a doctor walking into a hospital room and telling an over weight patient that he must stop eating so much. He than brings out the pictures and proof of where they are going if they don’t stop. Larry and the rest are now blaming the world’s problems on the doctor. (austerity)

    When will we get the apology? another few trillion in debt? another several years of no growth? Yes, Greece will go down, perhaps we will too. If we do, it won’t be the first nor the last government to fail because of these silly ideas.

  111. Mr. P…..can you explain how a company will get in the black without revenue?

    Your analogy of a “doctor”…..and overweight patient cannot lose weight without a combination of diet and exercise. If you try to only diet, the body metabolism makes up the difference.

  112. philichi says:

    Larry sometimes a company like Kodak and many others can not raise revenues anymore. They know that they will lose customers at the thought. We are in the place right now. Sometimes getting out of failed programs or ones that are about to fail is the only way.

    You are correct that a patient will need to exercise too. Generally that means to do more with less. And yes, that will be the eventual outcome of all the failing governments as they they work to keep from shutting down. The Dems and the Republicans have both set out budgets that will both grow every year. Just think they are both wrong. Eventually there will be no one left to finance those debts. Like, Greece, we will be forced with the same final act.

    It would be easier to take are medicine now and change the size and scope of government while there are still people left that have ambition to expand the private sector. (producers)

  113. So Mr. P…..you are claiming that someone can “cut” their way out of debt without additional revenue?

    As to “change the size of government” – which parts do you wish to eliminate? Please be precise and avoid “entitlements” which are generally mislabeled anyway.

    Now, I’ll continue this discussion, but you are aware that is has nothing to do with the debt ceiling and the need to pay our bills, right?

  114. “people left that have ambition to expand the private sector. (producers)”

    What are people that live off the stock market “producing”?

  115. As a slight sidebar to the discussion, I watched Lindsey Graham (R-SC) on Face the Nation this morning. On two occasions he said that the Democrats had a “super majority” (his words) in Congress for “the first two years (of Obama’s Administration).

    Since a “super majority” is 60 votes in the Senate and the Democrats had that for about two months in 2009, Graham is either completely ignorant of the facts and procedures of Congress, or his a plain liar – neither of which will help the country revive itself.

    We will never recover as long as the Republicans fall back to the default position of attempting to deceive the voters.

  116. Oh and….Mr. P….Kodak’s problem was that they failed to grow with the market. Who needs film and 35 mm cameras when you have digital?

    Maybe a progressive stand on their products and marketing would have helped. Their conservative attituded of “same old, same old” sure failed them.

  117. menopaws says:

    As long as we allow our politicians to be bought and paid for by corporate interests, this country will NOT recover………Spin all you want—-they want NO regulations, and the freedom to drill and speculate with other people’s money. I saw Lindsay Graham too and he had absolutely nothing fresh or new to say……..As long as Republicans keep saying the same words they said 10 years ago, without acknowledging the difference between then and now (like TWO unfunded wars), they just aren’t relevant. And, yet, they want to INCREASE defense spending and violate their agreement of last summer. How can you vote for anyone who won’t honor an agreement they made last summer?????? And, yet, you talk about Obama not keeping his promises…….At least he tried—-your Congressional buddies are now stuffing their pockets with $$$$ from nervous defense contractors…..Sorry, stupidity reigns if you refuse to face reality.

  118. “blaming the world’s problems on the doctor. (austerity)”

    Can you show us anywhere where your beloved austerity has worked?
    In fact can you show where any of your conservative ideals have worked?
    Any where at all. any conservative plan at all will do…..even just one.
    We will wait.

  119. philichi says:

    Yes Larry, the Dems had a super majority the first 2 years of BHO. that is how we got this silly health care, and spending bills passed.
    Kluwer, Germany is a great answer to a bloated country that got real. However of all of the great liberal bastions like Greece, France, Italy, California, and Illinois Washington state, which have seen spending work to promote long term growth?
    I will answer for you. None.
    And Larry when you asked me which programs I would cut, that would be easy. Lets start with education department. You and I both were graduated before that department was created. Lets move on to the department of agriculture. Did you know that there are more workers there now than ever before. There are less farmers and farms. I raise 12 chicken. We need to change the size and scope of government to smaller and less expensive.

    Now lets settle the FDR era. The depression started in 1928. FDR’s programs simply prolonged it. Imagine raising the minimum wage with a 20% unemployment rate. I could go on and on. The depression ended in 1943 that is about 15 years. Why would anyone call this a success? Te best thing that FDR did to end the depression was end his term. (die) May God Bless his soul and forgive him for the mess that he helped create.

  120. More of the same old discredited revisionist history about the depression.

    See my post May 18 for the actual facts, as opposed to the factoids presented here.

  121. To be more precise, May 18 at 5:00 PM.

  122. “Lets start with education department. You and I both were graduated before that department was created. Lets move on to the department of agriculture.”

    Who is going to watch over agri-corporations and state school systems? These departments weren’t founded because there was no reason.

    Remember you once had public school systems that practiced discrimination (as if it has gone away, anyway). You have agri-corporations that are poluting adjacent farm lands making it impossible for independent farmers to survive.

    Your cuts aren’t surprising, and in fact are predictable. The rich get richer and the poor get hosed.

  123. CT7 – if we cut all taxes how would we pay the national debt?

  124. xring….money grows on trees, doncha know?

  125. concernedtacoma7 says:

    “austerity doesn’t work” See Germany. They are saving Europe through… austerity.

    And you keep repeating a load of rhetoric anyway. Which european countries actually implemented austerity? Greece actually spent less recently, but only because they literally could not spend more.

    Xring- come on. Spend less.

  126. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Larry- the states and the courts can watch those areas. Try again.

  127. took14theteam says:

    Hey Larr, can you ever respond to a question without throwing in a non-relevent tangent/deflection?

    I didn’t think so. You really have a warped sense of reality. Must be all that time you spent in the lounge.

    I will save you same electrons ehill. Message messenger bla bla bla.

    There, one less comment to blow past.

  128. ErnestTBass says:

    The question still remains, who is Barak HUSSEIN Obama? For just about 4 years most people have pondered and probed, who is behind the mask of Americas faux president.Liberal hatemongers will just spin more lies,talk trash and viciously attack those who dare to challenge the man behind the mask, Americas faux president Barack HUSSEIN Obama. Do you really believe Andrew Breitbart died of natural causes? This November we must vote “The Kenyan Candidate” out of office. So! Who is Barak HUSSEIN Obama? Does anyone out there really know? “Oath Keeper!!”

  129. You already have a debt….how do you pay for that debt without revenue?

  130. Ernest…I’m disappointed. You didn’t use Jeremiah Wright’s name.

  131. BTW, Ernest – that’s the last attention you get on this thread

    “CLICK” :::::trollBgone:::::::

  132. concernedtacoma7 says:

    How do you pay down your debt by borrowing money from China? By spending more than the govt has historically taken in (i.e. spending vs revenue as % GDP).

    For all the rhetoric coming from both sides, I do not hear R’s discussing how to lower revenue (tax receipts), just spending.

    Try and stick with facts. Enough rhetoric Larry.

  133. averageJoseph says:

    “can you explain how a company will get in the black without revenue?”

    LOL, strawman. The government is brining in revenue… it’s just spending more than it brings in.

  134. For the math challenged – if you have a 10 trillion dollar debt, a trillion dollar budget and a trillion dollar revenue how fast do you pay off the debt?

  135. Now add to the math problem that the conservatives want to increase spending (defense) and decrease revenue (cut taxes)

  136. menopaws says:

    Oh for heavens sake—Andrew Breitbart was killed?????? Lord, you whack jobs are truly reality challenged…….Exactly what kind of danger did he present to anyone??? And, why would they bother??? I am soooo damn sick and tired of all these “hidden” conspiracy theories. President Obama won the last election—FAIR AND SQUARE. Deal with it……..and get better meds………..I don’t waste my time arguing with anyone whose reality is that twisted and sick………With all the problems in this country—the biggest one is starting to look like some seriously challenged voters who need psychiatric intervention…….Here’s one for you to ponder—why did the Bush adminstration help so many Saudi’s flee the country the day after 9/11??? I didn’t believe that one either and I can’t stand Bush…….So get a grip before the people with the nets show up……

  137. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Larry, your math is one that needs help. You are not even making sense.

    Defense is only one portion of the fed budget. Entitlements are the largest part. Cut one section more then you raise another and you have…. Give it a guess.

    And more rhetoric from Larry. Slowing growth is not a cut. Balancing a budget is not austerity.

    And I hate to remind you, national defense is the primary role of our federal govt. The nanny state entitlements are a progressive failure, not within the Founder’s framework or intent.

  138. “Defense is only one portion of the fed budget. Entitlements are the largest part.”

    FALSE statement.

    This is but one example of how the conservatives are either misinformed or just plain liars.

  139. took14theteam says:

    Now add to the math problem that the conservatives want to increase spending (defense) and decrease revenue (cut taxes)

    Please provide the link/data that shows where those “evil devil spawn” conservatives are proposing defense spending increases. Last time I looked the defenses spending was being slashed by BHO and the Dem’s. The “evil devil spawn” conservatives are just continuing the current defense budget. And in case you live under a rock (or a piano) every defense job spawns 2 to 3 more jobs. I thought you leftists wanted jobs? You want people to get off of the government dole, right (help me out ehill and klu)?

    As far as tax cuts, I haven’t seen any tax cut proposals. I have read about proposed tax increases by BHO and the Dem’s but no tax cuts. Oh, wait, BHO was/is all for the payroll tax cut that defunds social security – wait – that is why Larry is so angry about tax cuts, it hits him in the wallet.

    Now I am sure the leftists will talk about the Bush tax cuts from 2001, but sorry to say, they are the current tax rates.

    Try to stay current Larry, and not deflect, um kay….

  140. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ef/Fy2008spendingbycategory.png/450px-Fy2008spendingbycategory.png

    Here is a fair pie chart of the federal budget. Keep in mind that Social Security is funding by employers and employees (to the point that it’s been borrowed on) and you’ll find the two biggest items are Defense and Interest against debt (two wars).

  141. “Please provide the link/data that shows where those “evil devil spawn” conservatives are proposing defense spending increases.”

    Someone has been asleep for the past week. I’ll not waste time looking up news from the past week for someone unwilling to be informed.

  142. ““austerity doesn’t work” See Germany. They are saving Europe through… austerity.”

    LOL!!
    Man how out of touch can you people get?
    Germany is working and they are NOT using your beloved austerity!
    Look it up!

  143. Still waiting for those examples of how the great conservative ‘plan’ is working!
    Waiting, and waiting…….

  144. Oh heck…I can’t avoid this opportunity:

    WASHINGTON (AP) — The House Armed Services Committee pressed ahead Wednesday with a version of the 2013 defense budget that adds billions to President Barack Obama’s proposed budget and rejects the administration’s call for military base closings.

    I quote me: “Luckily for the GOP, it has a base of voters spoiling for this fight, due to their ignorance on the issue.”

  145. “Please provide the link/data that shows where those “evil devil spawn” conservatives are proposing defense spending increases.”

    romney.com
    theryanplan.com
    speakerofthehouse.gov

    How many more you want?

  146. took14theteam says:

    Since the alleged proposed budget by BHO includes massive cuts to defense, conservatives proposing the same spending levels is an increase. LOL. The same leftist logic that a reduction in the rate of an increase is cut.

    Keep on drinking the koolaid.

  147. took14theteam says:

    ehill,you need to scold kluwer. Maybe Larry can help you out with that.

  148. philichi says:

    Larry, your government has a $1 trillion dollar deficit per year. This country is one failed bond auction away from recievership. Do you mean that you would not want to get rid of a few departments?

    I have driven through DC. I feel enough compassion for our children that I would gladly shut down one department after another and give up social security and Medicare for myself.

    Yes, Larry you are right, the trading of stocks probably doesn’t do much for the economy. However, investing and moving capital to oportunity keeps American moving. There isn’t much need for that right now.

    Just think how fast this country will grow if Obama is a one termer. Businesses will grow, expand, and hire again. Obama is doing exactly what FDR did. He is like a wet blanket.

  149. philichi says:

    kluwer, the reason that Germany is working is becuase they got real 3 years ago. Hopefully we, Greece, California, and the rest will do it next.

  150. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Larry- did you miss the word “proposed” in your quote?

    Unicorns are next.

  151. philichi says:

    Have you guys seen the latest Nurce’s Union ad? It show people running around after a banker and blaming him for everything.

    Sort of like Hitler blaming the Jews.

    I hope that the end result isn’t quite as drastic this time.

  152. philichi says:

    Nurse, sorry, my WEA teacher was on strike the day that we should have learned to spell this word.

  153. The trolls are…I mean troll is unhappy. Oh well.

    When you “propose” to your future spouse, you don’t really mean you want to marry them, right? Thus a proposal by the Majority running the budget for the Armed Services Committee was just kidding? Hopefully they’ll get serious about running the House of Representatives pretty soon. We have 300,000,000 people depending on them.

    Someone really needs to quit playing rhetoric roulette or take a course in conversational enhancement English. Their painfully obvious lack of grasp of the English language is embarrassing.

    Mr. P – I can see that the subject of the credit ceiling is waaaay off your paygrade. You’ve done everything you can to try to sidebar this dialog. My “government” was an example – a story problem, if you will. You can insert any amounts in the blanks you’d like. I hope you don’t work in the financial field.

  154. “Yes, Larry you are right, the trading of stocks probably doesn’t do much for the economy.”

    Another candidate for remedial reading or adult English courses.

    My question was…”What are people that live off the stock market “producing”?”

    The answer is NOTHING.

    Mr. P….the “super majority” lasted less than 60 days – from Franken’s swearing in to Kennedy’s death (July 7 – Aug 25) – not two years, As Lindsey Graham said.

    Why do you people persist in lying about history that is only a couple of years old when we have technology that keeps track of all this stuff?

  155. For my final comment of the evening….I must address this plum:

    “every defense job spawns 2 to 3 more jobs”

    When the United States starts charging for its military services, this would make sense. Since we’ve learned from 2001 to present, how well it works running wars without funding, you could “spawn” as many jobs as you want from defense spending at it’s all government money spent, and not a dime earned.

    I shake my head at the thought that some of these people profess themselves to be educated.

  156. aislander says:

    I notice that some lefties are blaming the wars for the monstrous national debt.

    That would be true if the debt were only a trillion dollars, which was the cost of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq over ten years…

  157. aislander says:

    So, when blaming the wars doesn’t work out on the old calculator (anybody still have one?), it’s time to move on to blaming old reliable–the Bush-era tax rates.

    Trouble with that one is that revenue stayed within its normal percentage of GDP, give or take some from year to year, until the onset of the current economic malaise.

    Nope, there’s not enough lost revenue (to the extent that there WAS lost revenue) to validate the old tax-cut chestnut…

  158. aislander says:

    To see the cause of the debt our kids and theirs are saddled with, you have to look at NON-discretionary spending–the spending that now-dead politicians made untouchable (except to raise it, of course!): so-called ENTITLEMENTS (but really, how can you be “entitled” to somebody else’s stuff?)…

  159. ErnestTBass says:

    We must remember the following in November.
    Forged Birth Certificate.
    Multiple Social Security Numbers.
    Sealed college records.
    Missing birth records in Hawaii.
    Foreign passports.
    Ties to known communists and subversives.
    Threats against Chelsea’s life to silence her parents about Barrys ineligibility.
    Threats against our own Supreme Court
    Bailouts in the billions.
    Failed stimulus plans.
    Stifling unemployment.
    My way or the highwa.
    Obamas leadership reminds me ot the saying:
    “THE FISH ROTS FROM THE HEAD DOWN!”
    “Oath Keeper!!”

  160. “That would be true if the debt were only a trillion dollars, which was the cost of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq over ten years… ”

    Nearly ten years since U.S. troops first entered Afghanistan, the report estimates the final cost of all three conflicts will be between $3.7 trillion and $4.4 trillion — far higher than the $1 trillion price tag referenced by President Barack Obama earlier this year. The report estimates the U.S. government has already spent between $2.3 trillion to $2.7 trillion and will spend at least a trillion more over the next fifty years.

    And then there is the interest on the debt incurred by the Bush Administration….

    Conservatives never want to be honest about these issues. Can you balance your household budget by sweeping bills under the rug?

  161. George Bush DOUBLED (roughly) the national debt:

    09/30/2008 10,024,724,896,912.49
    09/30/2007 9,007,653,372,262.48
    09/30/2006 8,506,973,899,215.23
    09/30/2005 7,932,709,661,723.50
    09/30/2004 7,379,052,696,330.32
    09/30/2003 6,783,231,062,743.62
    09/30/2002 6,228,235,965,597.16
    09/30/2001 5,807,463,412,200.06
    09/30/2000 5,674,178,209,886.86

    Obama took over and slowed the debt – $15,727,435,916,418.13 – 50%

    To use a phrase the Republicans used when wanting to cut funding to Planned Parenthood and NPR – “every little bit helps”

    Meanwhile, the bills have to be paid.

  162. aislander says:

    Can YOU balance your budget by spending even more?

    Use LeftyLogic, the product that let’s you do the impossible…er…I mean it let’s you say you can do the impossible…

  163. “even more”? How much is “even more”?

    You must spend money to make the machine work. Try driving your car with no gasoline. Your credit card debt will go down…wait, no it won’t….you can’t go to work.

    Why reneg on the defense budget cuts, if you are concerned about spending “even more”?

  164. philichi says:

    Larry,
    You are right about the super majority. It was only a short time. Just think how much damage the Dems were able to do in that amount of time.

    I am very sorry that you haven’t realized how dangerous our national Debt is. Although we have a AA+ rating, I doubt that fundamentals even warrant that.

    I knew that we were finished when a smart guy like you had yet to apologize for big spending liberalism.

    Let me help you with how the apology should go.

    “my dear readers, I am really sorry that I even thought that this nonsense would ever work. I am sorry that I voted for people like our current President just so I would get more free stuff. I am sorry that I didn’t stand up and ask for sanity. For my punishment, I will give up voting myself and tell all of my liberal friends to stop. I will also take down all of the statues of people that used to be my heroes like Karl Marx, Fidel Castro, and FDR. I and they have wronged all of you. The future generations simply have to clean up our messes. Again, I am very sorry.
    Your old Comrade, Larry

  165. aislander says:

    Paul Krugman, the lefties’ pet economist, says the “stimulus” didn’t work because it wasn’t big enough!

    THAT’S “even more…”

  166. “Larry,
    You are right about the super majority. It was only a short time. Just think how much damage the Dems were able to do in that amount of time.”

    None. Ted Kennedy was dying of brain cancer and didn’t cast any votes.

  167. How do you stimulate the economy with no money? Will the 1% do it single-handedly?

    Somehow, I’m thinking that Krugman as superior economic knowledge and considering that his assertion is agreed with by many economists….well….you know.

    One thing we know is that General Motors and Chrysler are healthy and we didn’t lose millions of jobs that would have further hurt the economy.

    Ya win a few, ya lose a few.

  168. aislander says:

    Lefties love Keynesian economics because it provides a rationale for doing what they are inclined to do anyway: take from the producers to grow government.

    Taking money out of the economy to “stimulate” the economy is like winding your alarm clock to ensure that the sun is going to rise. It’s coincidence, not causation.

    The money is the result of economic activity, not the cause of it…

  169. philichi says:

    Larry, We, Europe, and Japan have been running on this artificial stimulant for years. Yes the stimulus package worked for a very short time. It worked until it was gone.

    It is now time for government to get out of the way and let markets work. Yes, it may take some time. Growth will begin when businesses no longer have to worry about higher taxes and more regulation. Business will grow for one big reason. We have a glut of natural gas in the ground. One very import cost has gone down.

    Again, we have all of the underpinnings of great future growth. If we get rid of the health care bill, get rid of other Obama regulations, and vote out Obama.

    I have often thought how funny it is that if the court throws out his health care plan, the economy may grow. He will et credit for that

  170. aislander says:

    …and I see we have deep-sixed the disingenuous “how much is ‘even more'” question…

  171. “Taking money out of the economy to “stimulate” the economy is like winding your alarm clock to ensure that the sun is going to rise. It’s coincidence, not causation.”

    LOL – oh, the irony!

  172. averageJoseph says:

    … on paper anyway.

    Have you noticed how the labor Dept. jobless claims keep getting revised up every Thursday??? for over a year now?

    Kooky.

  173. philichi says:

    Larry,GM would be there. It would be better. I am an investor. This is the facts. GM went bankrupt because (among other things) it had a over priced union work force. It became too complicated and expensive to build a car and compete with the others. While GM was haggling over work rules, Volkswagen, Honda, Toyota, and Nissan were building cars in America. A real bankruptcy would have allowed GM to shed this albatross and start over.
    Unfortunately, that which drove them to bankruptcy is still there. They came public at $35. They are now back to $21. It would have been far better to allow the bankruptcy process to work. GM would be a better company today. I might even own some of it.

  174. aislander says:

    There IS the niggling little fact that GM “paid back” its debt to the government with OTHER government money…

  175. averageJoseph says:

    They’ll need another bailout soon.

  176. philichi says:

    ehill: When George Washington had his sore throat at 65, the first thing that doctors did was to use the best treatment that they knew, they blead him. Unfortunately, that was what they were taught in school. It didn’t work very well. The Patient died. I imagine that it took a lot of courage to finally admit that this treatment just didn’t work.

    You have been taught that Keynesian Stimulus really works to grow an economy. I have learned that those that are the biggest proponents of this seem to be on the receiving end of the checks.

    Is that where you are?

  177. aislander says:

    philichi: I believe that Keynesianism serves mainly as a sop to whatever vestige of a conscience that lefties possess, as well as a rationale for their actions.

    It allows them to believe (or assert) they are doing good for the economy as they go about their kleptocratic business…

  178. averageJoseph says:

    kleptocratic Perfectly stated.

  179. “Keynesian” is the “Saul Alinsky” of the conservative communication on finance.

  180. aislander says:

    Okay–forget Keynesian. Let’s go with promiscuous spending and confiscatory taxation. I don’t care what you call it: you guys think it makes for a good economy.

    It doesn’t. Creating products and services that people actually want to buy without coercion from government, at a cost that allows for profit, does.

  181. “kluwer, the reason that Germany is working is becuase they got real 3 years ago.”

    They got “real”? They weren’t ‘real’ before?
    What the hell does that even mean, ‘they got real’??

    Germany is working today because they DIDN’T follow the conservative idea of cut, cuts, cuts.
    Conservatism is whats wrong with the world.

  182. “I notice that some lefties are blaming the wars for the monstrous national debt.”

    I’ve noticed that all righties fail to account for the cost of the wars, the cost of increased spending across the board by their party, and fail to account for the failed tax cuts.
    I’ve noticed that all righties ever do is blame someone else for the problems the righties cause.

  183. “Creating products and services that people actually want to buy without coercion from government, at a cost that allows for profit, does.”

    Then why do you swallow ‘supply side economics’ which is a total failure?

  184. “To see the cause of the debt our kids and theirs are saddled with, you have to look at NON-discretionary spending–the spending that now-dead politicians made untouchable (except to raise it, of course!): so-called ENTITLEMENTS (but really, how can you be “entitled” to somebody else’s stuff?)…”

    Keep spreading those lies ailander…it’s all you can do.

  185. philichi says:

    kluwer Angela Markel came in to power> She lowered the growth of spending, and loosened labor agreements. The others haven’t. Spain and the others have 40% unemployment rate. Germany is doing great.

    Look, Economics is really common sense. Yes, the government can go in debt and spend. But then what? We, Europe, Japan, are now on the “then what” faze. We have been trying stimulus plans for 5 years. We have sent people checks, we have hired more workers. It is now time for us to say, “enough” Let the economy, housing prices, and everything come back on their own. Just get rid of restrictions and let businesses grow again. They will. If Obama gets out of the way.

  186. aislander says:

    Your point about labor agreements is well taken, philichi. I think most of Keynesianism is arrant nonsense, but its one aspect that makes sense is the one aspect that is avoided like a plague here in the US: flexibility with regard to labor…

  187. You know, one of the most patriotic things I do is pay taxes. It’s a sign that I’m a part of the country and that I’m making money. I fully understand that there are less fortunate than me who get help from the government and I’m proud to be a part of the solution. I also see a government that spends more on defense than 13 countries combined and gives money to oil companies that are producing record profits that get to enjoy my money. When I see people that are content to buy nuclear weapons and not content to take care of the less fortunate, I’m left to wonder

  188. “labor agreements” – both sides signed the contract and then one side wants out

  189. “Just get rid of restrictions and let businesses grow again.”

    Which specific restrictions? For the past 11 years, we have had a Republican majority in the House and Senate (2001-2007) and a Republican controlled House (2011 to present). What “restrictions” did the GOP put on their buddies in business? They set record filibusters on all legislation attempted by the Democrats, so they MUST be the culprits of all these alleged “restrictions”….or…it’s all a faux issue.

  190. Oh..and with all the growth in the stock market since 2008, someone is going to try to convince us that businesses are not growing????????

  191. aislander says:

    It’s not a “faux issue,” but it’s being characterized in a faux way. The torrent of regulation is being generated by executive orders and bureaucratic rule writing.

    As for the stock market, IT is being held up by the another torrent: that of fiat money. If you adjust for inflation, the stock market is hugely unimpressive…

  192. “Let the economy, housing prices, and everything come back on their own”

    As I said, 1937 all over again.

  193. aislander says:

    Should have read: “…IT is being held up by the other torrent…”

  194. “If you adjust for inflation, the stock market is hugely unimpressive…”

    If you bought at 7900 and sold at 13,000 that’s still 64.5% increase

    I should be so restricted.

  195. It’s really sad to see people making money and it either isn’t enough or they didn’t make it how they wanted to make it.

    We all should have such problems.

    Of course, none of this has to do with the credit worthiness of the United States

  196. aislander says:

    In that same time period, gold, which IS sensitive to inflation, increased nearly 300% in value in US dollars…

  197. aislander says:

    Just as with the debt situation in Europe, our problems are not caused by efforts to rein in spending. They are caused by the debt itself…

  198. philichi says:

    Larry, look you are making this too complicated Can I help you get real? Our government spends over $1 trillion more than it takes in. That means that $1 trillion of stuff has to end. Or, that the government needs to sell stuff. I will buy Yellowstone. You may fret, however, your government has put our kids in huge debt. Now they are going to sell their assets. will you give up you social security? I will.

  199. “If you adjust for inflation, the stock market is hugely unimpressive…”

    Bovine byproduct. $100 in 2009 is worth $107 today, a remarkably low rate of inflation. Since March 1, 2009, the stock market has gone up by 93%.

    Do you just make this crap up and expect anyone to take you seriously? What’s actually unimpressive is your grasp of facts.

  200. aislander says:

    ehill: Ah! The stench of mendacity! Sum-one looked at a very sharp, short-term decline and used THAT as his baseline!

    Most people didn’t participate in the bounce-back from that trough, but many sold what they had been holding, cementing their losses. Unless you bought in during the month and a half immediately after the plunge, your return was MUCH less dramatic than the truly exaggerated 93% portrayed by the prevaricator.

    I trust YOU are such a skilled market timer that you made a bundle.

    In any case, gold increased by about twice that percentage in the same time period, and without the need to purchase within a very narrow window.

    Man, I wouldn’t buy a used car from YOU, much less a discredited ideology!

  201. Think anyone noticed that – once again – you couldn’t refute the facts?

  202. aislander says:

    Still wouldn’t buy that used car from you. It may have 5000 miles, but you left out the Katrina history and the salvage title…

  203. “Unless you bought in during the month and a half immediately after the plunge, your return was MUCH less dramatic than the truly exaggerated 93%”

    Dow Jones average one and a half months after the low point: 8183.
    Dow Jones average now: 12,500, an increase of 50%.

    Nope, the facts still prove that you’re just making crap up and expecting people to believe you. Facts. They trump mindless wrong-wing bloviation every time.

  204. philichi says:

    “Unless you bought in during the month and a half immediately after the plunge, your return was MUCH less dramatic than the truly exaggerated 93%”
    Ehill, don’t worry yourself with these stats. Your government has been printing money like crazy. That naturally inflates the share prices. Look instead at earnings of the SP 500. They are growing at small single digit levels. Money is not going to hire people and invest like it should. Businesses are worried about our current extreme left wing leadership. They are instead content with buying back shares and paying out dividends. Too bad. things could be so much better with proper leader ship.

  205. aislander says:

    So…is 50% dramatically less than 93%? Kinda is, isn’t it?

  206. So… an increase of 50% is a LOT more then the rate of inflation, isn’t it? Don’t look now, but you just proved your own claim to be wrong.

  207. “Your government has been printing money like crazy. That naturally inflates the share prices.”

    No, that “naturally inflates” everything. And yet the inflation rate has been very low.

    “Look instead at earnings of the SP 500. They are growing at small single digit levels.”

    S&P 500 in March 2009: 682.
    S&P 500 today: 1315, and increase of – wait for it – 93%.

    Oh, yeah, that’s MUCH less dramatic.

  208. “your government has put our kids in huge debt.”

    No. I didn’t vote for Bush and the Republicans.

    You claim you are going to make it easy for me, but you constantly misquote history of only up to 10 years ago.

    Thanks, but I’ll do my own thinking. You probably just need to focus on getting the facts of the last 10 years correct.

  209. aislander says:

    philichi: The government keeps changing the basket of goods in order to artificially suppress the apparent rate of inflation…

  210. “your government has put our kids in huge debt”
    “printing money like crazy”
    “things could be so much better with proper leader ship”

    If not for baseless assertions…….

  211. Oh wow….I missed one

  212. “The government keeps changing the basket of goods in order to artificially suppress the apparent rate of inflation

    The last change to the calculation was in 1995. Fail. Try again.

    Once again, facts trump mindless wrong-wing hyperbole.

  213. aislander says:

    The six highest inflation-adjusted deficits in US history all belong to Democrats, with Obama the proud owner of the three highest ones. His deficits are more than twice the next highest…

  214. Deflection.

  215. “Taking money out of the economy to “stimulate” the economy is like winding your alarm clock to ensure that the sun is going to rise. It’s coincidence, not causation.”

    So is cutting Govt jobs and spending putting money into the economy or taking it out?
    Simple question aislander, so simple even a conservative could answer it.

  216. “kluwer Angela Markel came in to power> She lowered the growth of spending, and loosened labor agreements.”

    And how is that cutting spending and installing your conservative austerity measures?
    Are you admitting that your ideas won’t work?

  217. Reading the latest posts from the far right once again assures me that the right has no clue, none what so ever about how the economy or the world works.
    It’s truly no wonder they ruin the economy whenever they get the reins of power.

  218. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Austerity is leftist word, not conservatives.

    Thanks for pointing out that controlling spending and coming close to a balanced budget is NOT austerity.

    I look forward to you no longer using that rhetoric.

  219. took14theteam says:

    Message, messenger…
    (e)hill You are coming out of your shell. Too bad you sound like the other hill….

    Oh and Larr, the Government doesn’t own money, it belongs to THE PEOPLE. That is the problem with you leftists, you think everyone’s money belongs to the government first, and the the pittance they decide to give you is yours.

  220. ErnestTBass says:

    Can you as a person keep borrowing money and spend yourself out of debt? If you can let me know the secret.

  221. concernedtacoma7 says:

    ETB, the argument is childish. With an economy the size of ours, with a debt over $200K per capita, stimulus is a dated and failed policy.

    No budget for over 1200 days. Distraction after distraction, class warfare, war on women, gay marriage, etc.

    We have had recoveries with and without stimulus. They are a natural event after a recession. Our debt has reached a tipping point, where we are spending so much on interest it is crippling our govt. SS has a moving end date, but this year we had to borrow just to make payments.

    Dems kick the can down the road, scared to make the tough decisions and be honest with those they represent.

  222. aislander says:

    “So is cutting Govt jobs and spending putting money into the economy or taking it out?”

    Good question. It’s taking money out of the real economy, diluting it, and maybe putting it back in–using, of course, government’s usual ill judgment

  223. aislander says:

    I had to rush that last post, so it needs fixing.

    It’s leaving money in the real economy when government takes and spends less…

  224. “Too bad you sound like the other hill….

    What a great job of refuting the facts. You truly are an intellectual giant.

  225. took14theteam says:

    (e)hill, message messenger…..

  226. “Good question. It’s taking money out of the real economy, diluting it, and maybe putting it back in–using, of course, government’s usual ill judgment”

    It is a good question and I can’t believe that, even with your correction, you got it 100% wrong!
    Cutting Govt spending IS taking money OUT of the economy!
    You yourself have said that is stupid….so why the drive for more spending cuts?
    You admitting that you need and want the economy to crash at your hands…again?

  227. philichi says:

    I apologize. Perhaps my last posts were too confusing. I will restate this in language that you may understand.

    Libs, your world of endless entitlements is about to run into an ice berg. There is no way to avoid the collision. Unfortunately, I always thought that you would apologize for what you did to a perfectly good country and world. However, I now realize that I was wrong. You are about to blame the Ice Berg.

    You might as well get in your life boats. Your checks will stop.

  228. aislander says:

    At best, government spending and hiring is a zero-sum game. At best!

    Government has to take money out of the productive economy through taxation, borrowing, or printing.

    Let’s just say that government then puts ALL that money back into the economy–although it never does. How does that do ANYTHING positive for the economy?

    I await an answer with breathless anticipation…

  229. “(e)hill, message messenger…..”

    Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

  230. philichi says:

    Ailander, actually it is worse than that. The government rewards activity that is destructive, and penalizes that which is productive. Those that wish to start a business and hire people are demonized at “the filthy rich” those that wish to stay home and watch day time TV are given 99 weeks of unemployment. Welcome to the liberal Nirvana.

    If you want to see the ultimate outcome look at Greece.

  231. “Let’s just say that government then puts ALL that money back into the economy–although it never does. How does that do ANYTHING positive for the economy?”

    Why don’t you come over to Kitsap County and ask the thousands of workers at PSNS? And then ask the tens of thousands of other locals whose jobs depend on those shipyard workers contributing to the local economy?

  232. aislander says:

    So…that money came out of a different area of the economy, which means that those jobs come at a cost of other jobs in another sector.

    It’s like taking water out of the ocean in one place and putting it back in another. No real difference.

    philichi: I know that, but didn’t wish to introduce that complication at this time. Add to that government jobs, which MAY be useful, are not productive in the sense of creating wealth, so the opportunity cost of governmental expropriation of resources is enormous. Try explaining THAT to a lefty, though.

  233. “Austerity is leftist word”

    Good lord……

  234. “those that wish to stay home and watch day time TV are given 99 weeks of unemployment.”

    More false statements. Mr P, you are a master at making up your own reality. Between history re-writes and misapplication of laws, you are entertaining, if nothing else.

    First of all, unemployment is an insurance policy. You qualify for it, based on the reason for your dismissal and the job search activity that you do thereafter. Your benefit makes up less that half of your net pay while working, thus the only way you can survive is if you are really good and minding your family budget prior to your termination. Additionally, you are taxed on your benefit.

    Oh, and it’s not 99 weeks anymore. The Democrats had to concede on that issue and I think it’s reduced to 72 weeks now. It was nice of the Republicans to talk about high unemployment and then take away emergency benefits to the hardest unemployed, but that kind of hypocrisy is what we’ve come to know about the Right Wing of the United States.

  235. kluwer….you’ve seen the two different dictionaries, haven’t you? The “left” and “right”.

    Don’t challenge aislander with dictionaries and other such data. He believes there is a separate book of each that is a left wing conspiracy.

  236. “Let’s just say that government then puts ALL that money back into the economy–although it never does.”

    Here is a real simple question ailander, even you can answer it,
    If the evil Govt doesn’t ALL that money back into the economy, as you claim….where do you think it goes? A black hole maybe? Sock drawer? I know! Under a great big mattress!

    Govt spending is NOT a zero sum game, even your fellow con and sock puppet agrees. tookone made the claim that DOD spending ‘created’ jobs and got people off the Govt. ‘dole’! (the irony!)
    Govt spending, like it or not is good for a depressed economy…it’s how your saint ronnie raygun got the economy moving again. Look at the debt he created, do you think that was wrong?
    Over spending in good times can be a bad thing and under taxing i9s also a bad thing, which we are doing now. The over all tax rate is lower now than it has been in 60 years….what do you think that does to the debt? It also shoots holes in your ‘trickle down’ nonsense, the top doesn’t ‘create jobs’ they hoard the money off shore (out of the economy!)

    you just may open your eyes yet little one!

  237. “If you want to see the ultimate outcome look at Greece.”

    And their conservative austerity cuts…..THAT is what you want for the US.

  238. aislander says:

    The problems of Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy, et al, are not CAUSED by “austerity,” which is the effort to DO something about the already-burgeoning economic catastrophe caused by overspending…

  239. philichi says:

    ehill, if everyone is riding in the wagon, and no one is pulling it, sooner or later, the wagon stops. We are just about there.

  240. “So…that money came out of a different area of the economy, which means that those jobs come at a cost of other jobs in another sector”

    Keep on repeating that crap. Eventually you might even start believing it yourself.

  241. aislander says:

    Sum people seem not to grasp that, once you have spent your money on something, it is not available to spend on something else…

  242. “Sum people seem not to grasp that, once you have spent your money on something, it is not available to spend on something else…

    Sum dim (or is it dim sum?) people seem to think once a dollar changes hands, it never changes hands again.

  243. “I was pointing out that you are a DB…”

    Tookie taking the high road again. LOL

  244. took14theteam says:

    So are you denying defense spending helps the economy?

    Tookie. I have been called that by someone else. Hmmm

    And you still are a DB.

    ;-)

  245. “So are you denying defense spending helps the economy?” — Are you denying that federal spending helps the economy?

    “And you still are a DB.” — And you’re still proving that you can’t refute the message, so you attack the messenger. Thanks for yet another admission from you.

  246. “defense spending helping the economy”

    There is nothing I love better than explaining this.

    On a simplistic level, one could say that defense spending provides jobs. Jobs help the economy, so yes….it helps the economy.

    A little deeper thought will demonstrate that defense spending is a black hole. The money is used for war and the maintenence there of, which doesn’t provide a product or consumable for the marketplace. Tax money is used for the purpose of destroying things, for which we accept the responsibility to rebuild. No product is created, resold, or consumed by the American public, which spawns far more economic value.

    If the best you have to export is war, you are on a one way street.

  247. “Your alter ego Larry wants to cut defense, which means cutting jobs.”

    BTW – “Tookie” was started by The Muckster.

    OK – ehill is me and I am ehill, so now that you feel better and ehill is about 5 years younger than he was when I started this sentence, let’s get on with the subject of cutting defense spending.

    One question – “could people building nuclear weapons and such learn to build something else that has purpose in society” Answer – Of course.

    See how easy that was?????

    By the way, ehill really isn’t me and I’m really not him. But I know who you are and you got your playtoy taken away when I started using my real name.

    Life’s a beech.

  248. took14theteam says:

    So (e)hill, you still haven’t answered the question about defense spending.

    All you can do is worry about the message and the messenger,

    You don’t appear to be an intellectual giant yourself.

  249. took14theteam says:

    Oh and Larr, if I am to believe that you are not (e)hill, then you need to stop obsessing that I am one of the others.

  250. averageJoseph says:

    Keep on repeating that crap. Eventually you might even start believing it yourself.

    Jr. “takes the high road” and once again proves that when he can’t refute the message, he attacks the messenger.

    Kooky

  251. “you still haven’t answered the question about defense spending.”

    And you haven’t answered the question about federal spending.

  252. “Jr. “takes the high road” and once again proves that when he can’t refute the message, he attacks the messenger.”

    Interesting comment. Once again, the entity “averageJoseph” only seems to appear when “aiSlander” is getting his hat handed to him. I wonder why that is?

    Why, it’s almost “kooky.”

    ;-)

  253. averageJoseph says:

    LOL Jr.

    Took1 got it right.

  254. “Took1 got it right.”

    Correction: Took1 got it far, far from right. You’re welcome.

  255. Since Ernest/Deepends brought it up:

    “PHOENIX — Arizona’s secretary of state said today that Hawaii’s official verification of President Barack Obama’s birth records meets necessary requirements, meaning the president’s name will appear on Arizona’s ballot in the fall.

    The inquiry launched recently by Arizona Secretary of State Ken Bennett gave official weight to a long-simmering political controversy generated by those who say that Obama was not born in the U.S. and therefore is ineligible to hold the nation’s highest office.

    The Obama administration attempted a year ago to dismiss the conflict by releasing his long-form birth certificate showing that he was born in Hawaii.

    But skeptics maintained their stance and eventually Bennett announced he would seek further verification at the request of numerous voters who contacted his office, even saying he was prepared to leave Obama’s name off the state’s ballot in November.

    Bennett said in a written statement that Hawaii officials “have complied with the request, and I consider the matter closed.”

    Will this be the end? Nope.

    I wonder what Deputy Dawg is going to use for his campaign?

  256. Took – you should have made your name

    “tookseriouslywhatwaspokedatmeinfun”

    I don’t really care if you think ehill is my son, nephew, alter-ego, grandmother or Aunt Edna (oh gawd…I gave it away!!!!)

    I’m going to play with what is left of your brain, regardless. There have been several occasions where “e” and I have been timestamped at the same exact time, so keep providing falling down humor for the rest of us.

    It’s nothing secret who is who. All I had to do was consider who was calling me “Larry” prior to my first LTE and then keep track of your “evolutions” as you each were banned and regained access to the site. It’s sort of like why you were so obsessed about my knowledge of “pacman” using my name for an email account.

    And you all think you are so clever……LOL

    Now, go on with your life. There is a world without me.

  257. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Wow, this crappy letter and Larry’s weak defense of his positions refuses to die.

    Larry, get over yourself. Leftist spend-beyond-means budgeting and big state solutions fail. Period. They are unsustainable and unAmerican.

    By every metric this recovery is a failure, and the reason for the failure in housing, employment, energy, infrastructure, etc. is dem policies. EPA preventing any and all manufacturing, construction, etc. Tax code dated and anti-wealth/business. Kids coming out college with a huge, undeserved sense of self-worth and worthless degree in arts crap.

    This letter, your comments, and dem policies all fail.

  258. “Leftist spend-beyond-means budgeting and big state solutions fail. Period. They are unsustainable and unAmerican.” — So it was unAmerican to defend this country in WWII? You’d have preferred that we surrender? Somehow, I’m not surprised.

    “By every metric this recovery is a failure” — Stock market – double its low point. Unemployment – down about 20% form its high point. GDP – up eleven consecutive quarters. 4 million Americans working now who weren’t working in early 2010. Wow, those are some metrics!

    Facts. They trump wrong-wing bloviation every time.

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