Letters to the Editor

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TAXES: Leadership by clowns

Letter by Matthew Philichi, Gig Harbor on April 18, 2012 at 11:20 am with 178 Comments »
April 18, 2012 11:20 am

President Obama and the Democratic Party have been working very hard on selling the Buffett Rule. They go from rally to rally trying to get people to support it. It has become their best idea. They even had the U.S. Senate vote on it this week.

Essentially the law would double dividend taxes on people earning over $1 million per year. All of this chatter is done in the name of fairness.

Let me get this straight. Our government currently runs a deficit of $1 trillion per year. At best, this silly scheme will only raise about $4 billion per year. That is a rounding error. Is this the best that they can do to solve our nation’s financial problems? Over the last few years they have spent over $800 billion on “cash for clunkers,” cash for bankrupt Solyndra and clowns for the General Services Administration. Now they are promoting taking even more money from hard-working families and businesses to continue this binge.

Our nation has a lot of problems. We have too many people out of work, a budget that is out of control and an infrastructure that is falling apart. Wouldn’t it be great if we had a president who was interested in solving problems?

The president’s campaign spent over $1 billion to win the chance to lead our country. If he and his party aren’t actually going to solve problems, perhaps it is time for them to exit. What an absolute disappointment this experience has been.

Leave a comment Comments → 178
  1. Theefrinker says:

    Evening out the taxes for the richest is obviously not going to solve the problems, but is still a problem that needs to be solved. No single measure, or single president can solve all the problems, financial or not.

  2. LornaDoone says:

    How about taxing the purchase/sale of all stocks and bonds, Matthew? Every single transaction pays a tax – sort of like a user tax on a state and local level.

    Your funniest comment was “Wouldn’t it be great if we had a president who was interested in solving problems?”

    When we have a minority leader of the Senate and a Majority leader of the House stipulate that the most important issue that faces them is getting someone elected other than Obama, we know they’ve really put their noses to the grindstone on budget and economy issues.

  3. LornaDoone, I hope that the president does suggest a charge for investing. It would serve his Wall Street friends right. However, again, it would take from the productive and give to the idle. Just another dumb idea to perpetuate failed socialism. It hasn’t worked in Cuba, Europe, Nazi Germany or Russia. Why do you think that these tired ideas will work now?

  4. The buffet bill may not have been perfect but it was a start of reforming our tax laws.

    The boondoggle over the bill shows that the corporate owned lap-dog republicons will vote against any thing as long as the President is for it.

    Philchi – many of the idle are idle because the ‘productive’ are not living in America.

    Capitalism is failing in America because the capitalists are sending our jobs overseas.

  5. LornaDoone says:

    Oh Matthew – I knew I could bring you out with that one.

    Can you cite where “Cuba, Europe, Nazi Germany or Russia” have tried taxation on market investments? (clue: “Nazi Germany WAS in Europe”, which is sort of like a double negative in language. You are on hyperbole overload).

    “Investors” are not “job creators”. Save that for the rubes.

  6. LornaDoone says:

    Matthew, I’ll bet you hate the Chevy Volt, don’t you?

  7. “Is this the best that they can do to solve our nation’s financial problems?”

    No and no one other than the far right media has ever suggested that it would.
    It is however a good start and only a start. There are many things that could and should be done but it will require the help of the republicans, something that they will need to put country ahead of party to do.

    Think you can help out instead of whine and complain?

  8. tellnolies says:

    Transportation and communications technologies have changed the way evertything fits together, but our cultural and social “systems” are still working on assumptions made prior to the advent of the new technologies.

    What am I saying? The old ways won’t work in the new world. Time for the cultural and social systems to catch up with our technology.

    A “return” to past “solutions” is bound to fail. Lousy Fare was just that, it needs to remain in the past

  9. anotherID2remember says:

    Buffett and his secretary pay the exact same capital gains tax and he pays a much higher income tax. Capital gains is what you pay on the money paid income taxes on and then invested.

    If Mr. Buffett paid his secretary 250k per year then she would have a very high tax rate OR he could simply pay her enough to live off her investments and then her tax rate would be the same as his.

    Why doesn’t our president just tell people that invest in our companies that they will be punished if they continue to be successful?

    Stay tuned…..next week Obama will be trying to pass a law requiring bananas to be red like apples! It is so unfair for them to be yellow.

    The bananas didn’t even ASK to be yellow.

    Capital gains tax is not the same as income tax!

    Go back and listen to the presidents speach on the subject…..you will note that he says “makes” rather than earned income. I guess we should do away with investment income or earned income and just call it all “money I make”

    All democrates are so delluded by Obama that they are unable to listen to reason.

    buffet rule – for poor people votes
    trayvon press conference – black votes
    student on birth control press conference – women votes

    This is all pre-election BS.

  10. LornaDoone, liberals are generally pretty good readers. Perhaps you could tell the rest of us which country with these silly ideas of taking from the rich and giving to the poor has succeeded. I give you modern welfare Europe, Nazi Germany, Maoist China, Cuba, and the Soviet union that didn’t. However, perhaps, with your vast knowledge you could inform me of the socialist country that has worked and didn’t go bankrupt or start killing people. Please just one. Don’t really care who knows my name. What is yours?

  11. Only conservatives would claim that $4 billion is an insignificant number and then turn around and claim that cuts of a few hundred million to programs they don’t like will make a difference.

  12. BigSwingingRichard says:

    Hank in there Philichi, the liberals are irate because they know their guy in the White House is going to lose the next election.

  13. Perhaps you could tell the rest of us which country with these silly ideas of taking from the rich and giving to the poor has succeeded

    That would be the USA. Look at our history.

  14. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    Hey Matt, heard any good “martini music” lately… is there such thing as good “martini music”?

    Oh Larry, I knew I could out you with that one.

    Chevy Volt? LMAO, even the “greenies” are dubious:

    http://www.hybridcarblog.com/when-chevy-volt-battery-costs-are-cut-in-half-what-happens/

    $8,000 for the battery pack? Must be taxpayer subsidized since the electric Ford Focus’s is $12,000 – $15,000.

    http://www.hybridcarblog.com/when-chevy-volt-battery-costs-are-cut-in-half-what-happens/

    And the results are frequently not worth it:

    http://green.autoblog.com/2010/11/11/inside-line-our-chevy-volts-battery-miles-cost-more-than-the-g/

  15. philichi says:

    Lornadoone, I love the Volt. I almost baught one. However, I found out that it runs on coal. 50% of electricity is generated by coal.

  16. averageJoseph says:

    5 trillion is significant. That’s how much deficit spending has occured under mr. hope and change.
    Meanwhile… mr. Buffet is advocating that which he is avoiding himself. Why doesn’t he just pony up the money his company owes the IRS?

  17. Excellent letter, Philichi. BB – I think you know the Buffett rule is just a political gimmick.

    When cuts to social welfare programs come, the 4-5B/yr from the Buffett rule will be peanuts. We have spent around 15 trillion on welfare programs and the poverty rate is worse today than back in the 1960’s. Throwing money at social problems doesn’t work. That’s Obama’s plan – buy votes – Ad2 got it right.

  18. LornaDoone says:

    “Lornadoone, I love the Volt. I almost baught one. However, I found out that it runs on coal. 50% of electricity is generated by coal.”

    The only coal generating electrical plant in the Northwest is in Centralia and their power is sent elsewhere.

    You’d have been using nice clean hydroelectric power, Matthew. It appears your research didn’t go too far. But when I see you invoke the same old “Europe, Nazi Germany, Maoist China, Cuba, and the Soviet Union”, I realize you just spew and don’t think.

    Buy the way, you might want to take a new look at China – the folks that own the US’s debt and take notice that the Soviet Union no longer exists.

  19. averageJoseph says:

    Only dance and drama teachers wpuld think that $4 billion could plug a $5 trillion dollar hole.
    And, only a hope and change disciple would think that those investors wouldn’t cash in BEFORE the rule took effect.

  20. LornaDoone says:

    I have to be careful about making personal comments directed at Sandy Beach. She gets upset and reports me.

  21. averageJoseph says:

    Libs hate hydro power.

  22. LornaDoone says:

    The conservatives can’t live with the fact that General Motors survived and millions of support jobs were not lost as well. That was intended to be “Obama’s Waterloo” and it didn’t work.

    Romney will get a message in November from the Rust Belt.

  23. LornaDoone says:

    “Only dance and drama teachers wpuld think that $4 billion could plug a $5 trillion dollar hole.”

    REALLY? What about when the “defunding” of Planned Parenthood and NPR was “a start” to eliminating the debt? NPR would have save $5 million and $487 million for Planned Parenthood.

    The defunding of those two entities make about 12% of the $4 Billion that the oil companies are gifted and the House of Representatives turned cartwheels trying to “save money” by defunding them.

    I guess 12% of $4 billion will plug the hole better, huh? A rocket scientist must have addressed this issue.

  24. philichi says:

    LornaDoone under Mao the Chinese had to eat their own children to stay alive. In North Korea they eat dirt. In Cuba, water canons are needed to keep people from leaving. We all know the evolving story of Greece and Spain. We know the history of National Socialism in Germany. Again LornaDoone, which socialist country would you like us to emulate?

  25. LornaDoone says:

    people that can’t say “liberals” are not qualified to speak on behalf of “liberals”

  26. The motivation behind the Buffet Bill was the same as that behind the “War against Women” idiocy: political advantage. No one ever made a mistake underestimating the intelligence of Democrats.

  27. billybushey says:

    The one common thread among all the taxation hyperbole on both sides is that it revolves around the current taxation system and tweaking an already bad/failed system in one direction or the other. There is a third choice out there that deserves a broad public discussion: HR 25, the Fair Tax.

    1) Through the pre-bate system, no harm to the poor and low income citizens.
    2) It is not a European style value-added tax that hits all points of production, it is strictly point of sale retail
    3) It eliminates all payroll taxes, the IRS, loopholes, deductions, special interests etc because you would no longer pay income, investment, corporate or any other confiscatory tax. It’s collected entirely at the cash register
    4) Everyone pays: Rich, middle-class, poor, tourists, crooks, gang-bangers, illegal aliens. No exceptions.
    5) It is 100% transparent: You know exactly how much tax you paid because it is listed on the receipt. It is also included on the shelf price, not added on, so there are no cash register surprises.
    6) The US Government and all citizens (in fact anybody at all) can find out, to the penny, how much revenue is being collected.
    7) Best of all, it forces Congress to do their job because they can’t hide behind gimmicks, kick-the can or special interest gobbledegook. They would have to pass a real, workable budget in real time.

    So far, it is only Republicans that support this idea and that is very sad. I think ALL parties should get on board and give this idea a try. We already know the system we have is an abysmal failure. It’s time to think outside the box (before some other country does and kicks our collective economic backside off the planet) http://www.fairtax.org

  28. LornaDoone says:

    “under Mao the Chinese had to eat their own children to stay alive”

    Oh lord…..LOL

  29. LornaDoone says:

    Why did Bush borrow money from the Chinese Baby Cannibals?

  30. philichi says:

    LornaDoone could you explain to us how the oil companies are given a tax break? Really, explain what you mean by that. Do you mean a depletion allowance? Do you mean depreciation of the infrastructure. I am sure that you know. You wouldnt bring it up if you didn’t. Right?
    Really could you help me with this. I would like to know what liberals mean by this. Than we know if it is fair or not fair. Please get back to us on this.

  31. Jimm – so you think $4 billion is insignificant?

    Of course – when it comes to discretionary funds you know what is the biggest part of the “hole” – that sacred cow known as the military budget.

    Or…if we can’t touch that…how about cutting the monies we give to Israel every year for their military budget? At 3.175 Billion it isn’t quite as much as the Buffett rule but – again – it is a healthy start.

  32. philichi says:

    you don’t believe that people ate eachother’s babies during Maoist China? It is documented. Do you believe that people eat dirt in North Korea? Do you believe that successful Jews had their property taken away and killed in Nazi Germany? When are you going to give me the socialist country that has worked? Don’t be too worried, this always stumps liberals.

  33. which socialist country would you like us to emulate?

    Leaving aside the reality that the current Chinese economy is far healthier that ours (and this isn’t just since Obama came into power) in deference to your cannibal fantasies….I would say any of the Scandinavian countries look pretty good.

  34. Another dimwit –
    Buffett pays a lower overall tax rate than his secretary.
    Mitt Romney paid an overall rate of about 14%, which is about half of what my wife and I pay.
    Capital gains should be taxed as income.

    B-S-R – Real Clear Politics still gives Obama the edge in the next election.

    Phiichi – put up a link or shut up.

  35. LornaDoone says:

    “I would say any of the Scandinavian countries look pretty good.”

    I’d second that.

  36. LornaDoone says:

    It’s been “documented” that a Jewish carpenter came back from the dead.

    I’m not buying that either.

  37. philichi says:

    Lorna I read the article. It says big tax breaks to oil companies. Could you tell me what they are? I have always wanted to know this.

    Xring if me memory is right Romney paid about $6 million in taxes in 2010. That seems like a lot to me. How much would you like him to pay? How much did you pay? Perhaps you should pay your fair share like him.

  38. philichi says:

    “I would say any of the Scandinavian countries look pretty good.”
    We used to laugh at them. They had slow growth rates, a high unemployment rate and low birth rates. However, under Obama, we aren’t much better. Perhaps that model is the best that we can hope for under “hope and change” Perhaps you are right. They have a lot of oil in the North Sea. Does that mean that we can start drilling our’s now. Please pass the lutefisk

  39. LornaDoone says:

    “We used to laugh at them.”

    Who is we?

    “They have a lot of oil in the North Sea. Does that mean that we can start drilling our’s now.”

    No, according to the oil companies they can’t drill on their existent leases because of the price of tea in China (where they eat children) and the position of Uranus.

    “Please pass the lutefisk”

    A man whose name ends in a vowel is making culture insults?

    “Perhaps you should pay your fair share like him.

    And you have proof that xring didn’t pay his fair share? Of course not you don’t. Red herring.

    Matthew – if you wanted to know about oil subsidies, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. You would have already done your homework.

  40. Capital gains are double taxed. The corporation pays taxes on its profits and the investor pays taxes on his investment income. That comes to about 50 percent when you add the corporate tax rate and the tax on capital gains. If capital gains were taxed only as income, the actual rate would decrease. Get a clue, ding a xring.

  41. LornaDoone says:

    “The corporation pays taxes on its profits and the investor pays taxes on his investment income”

    You weren’t a math major, I guess. If an investor is paying taxes on his income from an oil company and the oil company is paying none, that doesn’t make “double”.

    On the other hand, I have a bridge you need to see…..

  42. LornaDoone says:

    Ah yes, the old “bait and switch” routine.

    One time you’re talking about income tax, and then when addressed on that, change to property and whatever tax you can come up with.

  43. philichi says:

    Lornadoone if Xring paid $6 million in taxes last year like Mitt Romney, he would have been working so hard that he wouldn’t have had time to comment on this.

    Yes I do know about the oil tax breaks. They are no different than any other industry. Oil companies write off the cost of development, labor, and every thing else. They depreciate their machinery. Should they have different tax rules than other companies? What else is there to this. Can you find it and get back to us? Or is your president just trying to cause more class war fare like the Third Reich did?

  44. LornaDoone says:

    How Exxon paid zero taxes in 2009 By MERLIN FLOWER for OIL-PRICE.NET, 2010/04/15

    Here’s a simple question in Economics: If Exxon Mobil, the largest U.S. energy company, made a profit of $35 billion, and if the income tax paid is $15 billion at a tax rate of 47%, how much did it pay to the IRS? The answer is, according to a report published recently in Forbes magazine, zero.

    How come the results when 47 percent of the profit had been paid as taxes? Well, it helps to have wholly owned subsidiaries domiciled in countries such as Bermuda, Cayman Island and Bahamas to pipeline cash flows from operations in Azerbaijan, Abu Dhabi and Angola.

    Shooting fish in a barrel.

  45. LornaDoone says:

    “Lornadoone if Xring paid $6 million in taxes last year like Mitt Romney, he would have been working so hard that he wouldn’t have had time to comment on this.”

    Why is that? If Mitt has time on his hands can’t everyone make as much money has Mitt and still have time to run for President? Remember, as Mitt told a group of people – “I’m unemployed”

    Now that we are done playing your child games, does xring have to pay the same amount as Mitt to be paying a “fair share”? Is the conservative way that a multi-millionaire should pay 15% of his wages and a working stiff pay 450% of his?

    Your comments are almost as disjointed as your letter.

  46. old_benjamin says:

    More like shooting your mouth off without engaging your brain.

    “Further, Obama’s charge that oil companies pay “a lower tax rate” than “most other companies” is simply false. Oil and gas companies in 2010, the last year for which all data are available, paid 41.1% of their net income on income taxes. That compares with 26.5% for other industrial companies listed by Standard & Poor’s.”

    http://news.investors.com/article/606637/201204031900/oil-industry-profits-are-in-line-with-other-industries.htm

  47. LornaDoone says:

    “An Investor’s Business Daily editorial claimed that “the core” of Sen. Barack Obama’s “faith — whether lapsed Muslim, new Christian or some mixture of the two — is African nativism” and asked: “Would Obama put African tribal or family interests ahead of U.S. interests?” The editorial’s claims about Obama’s faith being “lapsed Muslim, new Christian or some mixture of the two” echo widely debunked allegations that Obama is or ever has been a Muslim.”

    Some media will say anything, regardless of truth.

  48. old_benjamin says:

    So will some bloggers.

  49. World Top 10 – Countries with Highest
    Standard of Living

    Country

    1. Norway
    2. Sweden
    3. Canada
    4. Belgium
    5. Australia
    6. United States
    7. Iceland
    8. Netherlands
    9. Japan
    10. Finland

    URL: http://able2know.org/topic/55762-1

    Who’s laughing know phil?

  50. Actually – I would give the nod to Belgium if I had to repatriate – higher standard of living than US and the beers are amazing!

  51. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    Shooting fish in a barrel.

    You couldn’t hit one if it were dead.

    How Exxon paid zero taxes in 2009 By MERLIN FLOWER for OIL-PRICE.NET, 2010/04/15

    Gee Lardna, how come no linky? Could it be because the very next paragraph after the one you quoted says this:

    Truly, Exxon is not alone. GE submitted a mammoth 24,000-page tax return and managed to avoid income tax for profits worth $10.3 billion last year.

    And the following one says this:

    According to a report by the Government Accountability Office (GAO), 2008, two out of three US companies paid no federal income taxes from 1998 through 2005. The report had covered 1.3 million corporations in the US with collective sales of $2.5 trillion.

    And don’t forget this:

    The foreign tax credit is applied to situations where the company has already paid taxes elsewhere in the world. This is done by the IRS to prevent double taxation for corporations. Thus there is a choice of tax credit or deduction against the US taxes.If a corporation pays over the US corporate rate of 35%, that could offset the tax in the US. Since in Exxon’s case the rate was 47% it helped the company offset the income tax in the US.

    Kinda dilutes your talking point, Lard.

    But make no mistake, while the piece Larna cites is not an indictment of Exxon, neither is it a puff-piece. Read for yourself:

    http://oil-price.net/en/articles/How-Exxon-paid-zero-tazes-in-2009.php

    In the mean time, never take anything the shortbread cookie says at face value. Shortbread cookies lie… when they’re not telling half-truths.

    Smells like rotten fish around here.

  52. Philchi; another zombie mathematician

    Romney’s $6 million was only about 15% of his adjusted gross income.

    So IMO he owes at least another $6 million, which would then put him in the 30% bracket.

    My wife and I are in 25% bracket so I would love to pay 15% just like Mittens did.

    Vemak; here’s two clues for you.

    Employers pay business and other pay taxes on their earnings, then employees pay taxes on and with their income. By your loony tune argument, only employers would have to pay taxes.

    US corporate tax collections are among the lowest in the in the industrialized nations.

    Ding-dong, ding-dong.

    A fool trying to educate a fool. OMAA, ROLFLOA.

    Old_ben – in 2009 Exxon-Mobil paid no federal income tax of a record profit of $45.2 billion.

    http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2010/04/06/90299/exxon-tax/

    The $7.7 billion they did pay included sales taxes and duties.
    You 47% number is companies total global tax rate. (FYI tax bite for extracting oil in Nigeria is 85% of your profits).
    http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2010/news/1004/gallery.top_5_tax_bills/2.html

    bBoy – better point out that of the 10 only the US does not have national healthcare.

    Vox – in your case it’s inserting foot in mouth then shoot both off.

    In your zeal to disprove and defend Exon-Mobil you showed that MOST US corporations pay no US income.

  53. LornaDoone says:

    OIL-PRICE.NET, 2010/04/15
    No linky????????

    Some people couldn’t find their posterior with both hands and a canoe paddle.

    Probably a Cat Scratch Fever fan. Nothing like 70s hair and two chords to make a career.

  54. LornaDoone says:

    To my comment that “some media will say anything…..”

    old_benjamin says:
    April 18, 2012 at 4:28 pm So will some bloggers.

    But Ben, we are trying to give Michele Malkin a break because running the false picture of Trayvon Martin was “just a mistake”.

  55. LornaDoone says:

    Exxon, when confronted about paying no income tax, hauls out every locality tax they do pay….as if we poor folk don’t do the same, and make a heck of a lot less.

    Case in point, the CookiePerson here, pays Federal, State User, State B&O, County user, County property, City user and other local taxes as per the municipality where I might earn money or spend money.

    I’ll wait and see if the Exxon CEO will cry for me.

    At least he fessed up (under the scrutiny of our Senator) that speculators were driving up the price of oil.

  56. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    In your zeal to disprove and defend Exon-Mobil you showed that MOST US corporations pay no US income.

    So why are you-all picking on oil?

    First of all, I’m not “defending” anyone. Rather I’m pointing to the constant disinformation emanating from shortbread’s pie hole. You, on the other hand, are no quite as disingenuous – you’re just wrong.

    If you’d follow the link I provided, you’d find a pretty neutral site reporting Exxon profits of 35 Billion in 2009 – not the phony-balony 45 Billion the worthless site you linked claims.

    But that’s not important. What is important is that Exxon paid a 45% foreign tax rate which more that off set the 35% US rate. They, like every other corporation doing business in the US, are allowed to take a tax credit or a deduction when the total amount of foreign taxes exceeds the US rate, which was 35% in 2009 (now 38%). This is to prevent corporations paying a double tax. What would you have? An 80% tax rate for companies like Exxon doing business both here and in foreign countries?

    Never mind.

    The argument is specious, irresponsible, and absurd. If you want to talk about lowering the corporate tax rate in exchange for closing loopholes – as the president once paid lip-service to – we could have a discussion on how to implement that.

    Of course, 0bama pal and General Electric CEO Jeff Immelt may not like the idea. Seems he received executive compensation in 2010 of $15,199,762, while in the same year, General Electric came out way ahead,collecting $3.2 billion in tax refunds from the IRS. So not only did they pay no taxes, they actually got a refund that nearly equals what the IRS would take in under the laughable so-called Buffet Rule!

  57. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    Oh c’mon, Larna, admit it; you cherry-picked the first paragraph because (as usual) by taking it out of context it has the kind of shock value you seek. Trouble is, the rest of the article goes on to explain how 67% of all US corporations do exactly the same thing – and many on a much larger scale – and that it is completely legal under the current tax code.

    Like Matt says, if you’re so Hell-bent on pulling tax deductions and credits for big oil, why stop there? Heck, let’s finish off the torpedo job 0bama’s doing on the economy – let’s put x and Larry in charge of IRS tax code.

  58. concernedtacoma7 says:

    lardnos has no class, pride, or honesty. Cherry-picking, deflection, anything but addressing an issue honestly or logically.

    Please, Lardnos, tell us more about corporate taxes. Right now you failed in every metric.

    Oil companies pay the second highest rate as an industry (do you need the NYT link again?). Oil is vital to our economy, provides jobs (BHO should thank Tx and Gov Perry for making all those jobs he took credit for), and pay taxes at all levels.

    All liberals and progressives should be embarrassed that you are on their side.

  59. All liberals and progressives should be embarrassed that you are on their side.

    Not nearly embarrassed as we are pleased that you aren’t on our side.

  60. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Well BB, I read past a headline, past the rhetoric, and take pride in individual responsibility. Until you and your ilk stop voting for a man based on the color of his skin, address the budget, and use common sense you are safe.

    You feel guilt, shame, and anger. You divide, waste, fail. Modern progressives; entitled, whiny, lazy. It would be funny if it was just a fringe group, but they now have people throughout the admin, destroying and dividing America from the inside out.

    No class, honor, or pride in what makes America great. As you show, you want us to be like Norway, not America.

  61. MATTHEW — what single budgetary maneuver would u suggest that would solve all of our debt woes in a single fell swoop? unless u r gonna halt defense spending TODAY, this is simply not a realistic stance. so…. what’s ur plan for fiscal responsibility?

    stop regurgitating the trash FOX SPEWS and learn to speak in more than talking points.

  62. Frankenchrist says:

    Phiilichi, you’re a conservative. Do you know how I can tell? All your posts have numerous spelling errors. There is something about cons and spelling.

  63. averageJoseph says:

    LMAO… so FC admits she doesn’t read her neosoc friends posts… cute.

  64. bobcat1a says:

    Matthew, if $4,7 billion is an insignificant rounding error, why are the Republican legislators in Washington hyperventilating over $360 million for planned parenthood. Methinks thou dost protest too much. Are you suggesting that BILLIONS aren’t worth anything? Talk about out of touch.

  65. sandblower says:

    Tolerating the nonsense Mr. Philichi tries to feed us far too often only breeds more nonsense. Does anyone at the TNT recognize a responsibility to vet plausible from implausible or reasoned from the lack thereof?
    I am not saying silence the opposition. I am saying give us something with at least a semblance of coherent thought.

  66. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    Coherent thought? You mean like your prediction of a brokered convention?

  67. Matthew Philichi, Gig Harbor you must be part of the 1 percent. No it would not bring the National debt down over night.. But it’s 4 billion the country didn’t have.Also had Chysler paid the 1.3 billion it was suppose to then the country that would be 5.3 billion the country didn’t have. If the country took the money the didn’t have in the past aside eventually it would come down

  68. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Toocan, BHO over spends by $1+ trillion annually. Only 53% pay income taxes. Instead of whining about 220,000 people in a land of 330+million, focus on problem.

  69. You can almost taste the desperation from the right.

    Their lies are getting more and more shrill with every passing day.
    I have to wonder if or when any of them will wake to the fact that their agenda has failed at every level and has cost the tax payer trillions.

  70. yabetchya says:

    You can smell the desperation from the left! Their lies are getting more shrill with every passing day. I have to wonder if or when any of them will wake up to the fact that their agenda has failed at every level and has cost the tax payers and their children trillions !

  71. With a presumptive nominee they don’t really like and can’t really promote on his own merits, the GOPsheep have no alternative but to go negative as hard as they can:

    Mitt Romney has emerged from the Republican primary season with the weakest favorability rating on record for a presumptive presidential nominee in ABC News/Washington Post polls since 1984, trailing a resurgent Barack Obama in personal popularity by 21 percentage points.
    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/record-shortfall-personal-popularity-challenges-romney-race-ahead/story?id=16151342#.T41niVE7Uuc

    This is leading to bizarre behavior never seen before:

    Allen West, a Florida congressman, told a town hall meeting: “I believe there is about 78 to 81 members of the Democrat Party [in Congress] who are members of the Communist Party.”
    http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/jack-lessenberry/42664/mccarthyism-gone-wild-allen-west-tallies-78-81-communist-party-members-in-congress

    Not even Tailgunner Joe McCarthy made that accusation – though he used the identical number of 81 when he first claimed that the State Dept was infiltrated by Soviet agents.

  72. “Leadership by clowns”

    That is what we had under the failed bush and it continues under the failed republican led congress.
    The right has worked very hard the last 30 years to undermine and destroy this nation, time to remove them once and for all.

  73. concernedtacoma7 says:

    BB- “After an extended pause, West said, “It’s called the Congressional Progressive Caucus” (which, indeed, has about 80 members).”

    The left IS pushing socalist, big govt solutions. Call a spade a spade. They (progressives) are not for individual responsibility and free markets. They are for social and economic engineering led by politicians. Admit it and move on.

  74. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    Ahh so good to see you drop all pretenses of indifference, bB. So, like the rest of the Democrat party, your strategy is to run away from 0bama’s miserable record, failures, and lack of accomplishment, and attack Romney in as personal a manner as possible by focusing on important things like personal popularity (whatever that is), his wife, where Romney choose to locate a dog kennel 30 years ago, etc, etc, etc.

    Trailing “resurgent Barack 0bama”, LMAO, that should be all the further one needs to read, but if you really want to know how desperate and meaningless this new Dem TP is, all you have to do is read a bit further:

    (Romney’s) favorable score is just a whisker from the previous low, Bill Clinton’s 37 percent in March 1992, in a race Clinton went on to win.

    RCP has 0bama at +2 – well within the +/- 3% margin for error and still too close for an incumbent at this stage. And it’s only that wide because of ABC’s eyebrow rasing 7% nod to the campaigner-in chief, combined with CNN’s laughable 9% gift.

    If this is what passes for “resurgent” in the feeble minds of the left wing press, I can’t wait for their spin on “declining”.

    We’ve tried, “most intelligent”, “hip”, “cool”, “popular”, “professorial”, and “celebrity” over the last 3+ years – how’s that workin’ out.

    The “tingle” is gone.

  75. Call a spade a spade.

    Exactly. Don’t call a spade a bulldozer.

  76. Call a spade a spade.

    Exactly. Don’t call a spade a backhoe.

  77. vox – I point out that the GOPloyalists realize that they can’t win running on Mitt’s positives and then you accuse me of running away from Obama’s negatives.

    You should see that you just reinforced what I wrote.

    The flip side, of course, is that the Dems can’t run on Obama’s positives either so they have to run on Mitt’s negatives.

    And I am voting my conscience by not voting for either one of these negatives.

  78. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    vox – I point out that the GOPloyalists realize that they can’t win running on Mitt’s positives…

    There’s that straw man again. Exactly who realized this, bB?

    If folks like you weren’t “running away from 0bama’s negatives”, why would these sideshow topics the Dems are desperately trying to create even be worth discussing at this juncture?

    The fact is Romney does have a record of successful accomplishments. And even though many conservatives may not feel comfortable with some of them, it is still more impressive than the campaigner-in-chief’s was in 2008. And removing the one notable accomplishment in his life – that he actually did somehow bluff his way into the highest office in the US – I would argue Romney’s resume remains superior to 0bama’s to this day.

    So let’s talk about anything but records and real issues… right?

  79. LornaDoone says:

    “The fact is Romney does have a record of successful accomplishments”

    A healthcare policy that was the template for the Affordable Health Care Act is one of his successful accomplishments. Let’s talk about that and listen to the “but that was state level” spin.

    Romney has never held a federal office, so if there is such a big difference between state and federal, we need to stick with the guy that knows federal – Barack Obama.

  80. LornaDoone says:

    “Toocan, BHO over spends by $1+ trillion annually.”

    Uh, don’t let this get in the way of your BHO rage, but Congress spends the money.

    This is a perfect example of your “noun, verb, negative statement, BHO” tactic. You are so busy trying to follow the format provided by the talking points website that you make a fool of yourself demonstrating that you don’t have a clue on the simplest of facts about government operations

  81. Scottc51 says:

    I wish that Obama had told us when he was campaigning for the Presidency that the job would be too hard for him. Once he got in and discovered that there were Republicans in office and even more in 2010, he realized that getting anything done (including a federal budget) was too tough. I’m really tired of his whining.

  82. Pacman33 says:

    “[I]n 2010, he realized that getting anything done (including a federal budget) was too tough.”

    Budget? ? ? ……… We don’t need no stinking Budget!

    Budgets do nothing except allow the American people to see the extent of Dems deficit spending. Along with their backwards priorities to justify passing such debt on to the next generation. Having a legitimate budget would suggest the Dems have a spine, when shamelessly trashing Paul Ryan.

    Forming a budget and sticking to it, would imply the Dems are in touch with the millions of responsible American households that must abide by a budget. The everyday – average citizens, who would be in financial ruin, if foolish enough to skate by 3 straight years without a budget.

  83. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    Uh, don’t let this get in the way of your BHO rage, but Congress spends the money.

    More dialogue hypocritically missing between 1/ 07 and 1/ 11… you know Larns, when the Democrat party controlled Congress. Oh, and the presidency too – for two of those years (but it was still Bush’s fault).

  84. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    we need to stick with the guy that knows federal – Barack Obama.

    ROTFLMFAO! 0bama no “federal” allright.

  85. philichi says:

    Jellee, thanks for asking for my solutions. The three greatest expenses are Medicare and social security and defense. Since defense is necessary and outlined in the constitution, lets talk about the other two. These are both lib inventions that will bankrupt our country. They are both designed to fail. Medicare and social security will have to be privatized. Some of us will have to voluntarily drop from the system. There is now 2 employees supporting every one retire. Soon it will one. I am still waiting for FDR and LBJ to come back from the dead and apologize for what they did to our country

    Frankenchrist, sorry about the spelling errors. My teachers were in the WEA. They were in continuous strikes throughout my education.

  86. “The left IS pushing socalist, big govt solutions.”

    Keep telling the lie.

  87. “The fact is Romney does have a record of successful accomplishments

    Self-deception doesn’t work for you as a style vox…

    You only have to look at the vast sums of money Mitt (and the SuperPacs) spent on negative ads against his fellow GOPers to realize that Mitt’s positives aren’t considered all the impressive – even by his own Party.

  88. Vox – why are we picking on oil companies? Gee, I don’t know. Maybe because old-ben brought up oil company taxes.

    What’s a few billion between friends? The POINT is that Exxon (and many other corporations) PAY NO US INCOME TAX.

    Buffet rules applies to individual income taxes, not to corporate taxes.

    At least Larry and I would come up with a fair tax system rather than one designed to bankrupt the country while ensuring the rich get richer.

    If you could remember 4 years ago, both candidates got a bump in the standings when they became their parties’ presumptive candidates and again when they became the actual candidate.

    Three of Romney’s successes:
    Born on third base and thinks he hit a home run.
    Author of ObamaCare before it was ObamaCare
    Champion of destroying US companies and sending jobs overseas.

    CT7 – BHO spends nothing that has not passed the Rpot controlled House.

    The problem is too many people think there is a single simple solution to a vast web of interrelated complex problems.

    Even Newt Gringrich (in a rare moment of sanity and candor) called Ryan’s budget right wing social engineering.

    Scott and Pac – the GOP is totally out of touch with reality and the American People, and don’t care about anything except making the 1% richer, and enforcing their right wing social engineering programs.

    beerBoy – isn’t in delicious that Romney ‘won’ by being able to outspend his opponents 10:1 thanks to Citizens United?

  89. LornaDoone says:

    “The three greatest expenses are Medicare and social security and defense. Since defense is necessary and outlined in the constitution, lets talk about the other two.”

    Does the Constitution say that the United States must outspend all of the other modern countries in the world (combined) when it comes to defense?

    Social Security is an insurance policy that is self sustaining IF Congress quits raiding it. Only people in the securities business want to see Social Security eliminated.

    Medicare – yep….a little bit of socialism, but as the Tea Partiers are fond of saying “keep the government out of my Medicare”. I can only hope that the Republicans run on cutting Medicare.

  90. LornaDoone says:

    “Social engineering”

    To be honest, both parties are guilty of this.

    The Democrats are known to have worried about health and welfare issues for poor people.

    The Republicans want to see women lacking in choice on their health care needs and want to make sure kids don’t wear their pants too baggy.

  91. LornaDoone says:

    Vox – tell us about Romney’s vast experience in Federal government.

    I’ll get you started –

    He lost an election for Senator.

    He lost in the primary of 2008 to John McCain, a once great Senator reduced to being Sarah Palin’s running mate.

    In fact, the ONLY political office that Romney has had was one term of Governor of Massachusetts, which would mean he served twice as long as Palin did as Governor of Alaska.

    With no Federal experience, what will Romney know about foreign affairs, which is a key element in the Presidency these days. It has kept Obama quite busy – mopping up Bush’s messes and hunting down the real culprits of US challenges.

  92. Who would you rather have run your lemonade stand? Obama or Romney? I’ll give you a hint. Obama has never run anything. How do you expect him to understand a budget or a $3 trillion economy? Did you expect better than we are getting?

    I would like to see him get a little experience before he comes back to government. Perhaps he could attempt a Subway.

  93. Lornadonne, both programs are bankrupt now. There is no lock box. This is not debatable. You can put closing them down off a few years. However, like every other liberal scheme including Fannie Mae, Get, and State Pension plans, they will be boarded up eventually. Like Obama, they had good intentions, they just were not based in reality. I realize that it is sad for liberals to see all of their ideas up in smoke.

  94. , both programs are bankrupt now.

    I’m not sure you really understand what the word bankrupt means.

    Social Security – without any “fixes” – is fiscally sustainable for 27 more years.

    we project that Medicaid spending as a share of national health spending will average 16.6 percent from 2006 to 2025—roughly unchanged from 16.5 percent in 2005—and then increase slowly to 19.0 percent by 2045. Growth in government revenues is projected to be large enough to sustain both Medicaid spending increases and substantial real growth in spending for other services.
    http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/26/2/w271.full

    They both need some tweaking but neither of them are “Having been legally declared financially insolvent or Financially ruined; impoverished.”

  95. beerBoy I hope that you are not counting on these for your retirement. Do you have a plan B? The college kids that are about to pay in to this are going to figure it out real quick. This will be shut down faster than Washington State Liquor stores. Good ridence

  96. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    Ohhh! Oh… now I get it… this election federal experience counts!

    Setting aside the vast edge in “federal experience” that McCain had over the “0ne”, why didn’t Marco Rubio just use his one year os Senatorial “presence” as a springboard for a run at the 2012 presidential election? Worked for the campaigner-in -chief.

    He’d be a shoe-in. Ooops… that’s right… he actually had a job before running for the US senate, and his state legislator experience included a Speakership… which required his presence.

    Please, Lardna, you know full well there has never been a less qualified candidate for the US presidency that Barry 0bama. And he’s continued his run of undistinguished non-accomplishment right on through his first three years. It’s why he won’t run on his laughable “record”.

  97. “both programs are bankrupt now.”

    Simply not true and anyone with two brain cells knows it.

  98. “there has never been a less qualified candidate for the US presidency that Barry 0bama.”

    Well except for the guy that lost to him and the guy that is currently running and going to lose to him!

  99. LornaDoone says:

    McCain had far more experience than Obama on the Federal level. Unfortunately, he acquiessed his experience to the half-governorness of Alaska.

    Most people, myself included, will say that the addition of Palin to his ticket cost him the election.

    Back to Romney – interms of political leadership he has done nothing other than one gubernatorial term, where his policies were 180% the opposite of where he stands today.

    Regardless of how he got there, Obama is the experienced candidate in THIS election. Try as you might, you can’t change the past, other than rewriting history, which really doesn’t change anything other than words.

  100. LornaDoone says:

    “Who would you rather have run your lemonade stand? Obama or Romney?”

    Two things. 1 – the United States isn’t a lemonade stand and 2 – Romney wouldn’t run it, he’d bankrupt it, take the federal insurance money and let the employees lose their jobs.

  101. LornaDoone says:

    So what you are saying, Matthew, is that Romney being handed money by his daddy is better business experience than a guy that had to balance the budget for a non-profit? You might want to check on Obama’s experience before saying “he ran nothing”.

    “Two years after graduating, Obama was hired in Chicago as director of the Developing Communities Project (DCP), a church-based community organization originally comprising eight Catholic parishes in Roseland, West Pullman and Riverdale on Chicago’s South Side.”

    I wonder who had to watch their money the most in college? You think Obama had as much liquid cash available as Mitt? As for real life experience in the value of a dollar, I’ll take the guy from a single parent family any day.

    Matthew, I’m going to suggest that you do a little research before your next letter and subsequent dialog with us in the comments area. This episode has demonstrated you to be severely lacking in the details department.

  102. Philichi;
    Yes, I expected better than we have gotten. I expected the Rpots to act like adults and to do what is best for the Country and not spend all their time passing right wing social legislation and trying to unseat the President.

    Vox,
    ‘less qualified candidate’ – obviously you failed US history, if indeed you ever took any.

    Lorna,
    I would have to add McCain’s kowtow to the religious right also cost him.

    Also, what many of us say in Obama that McCain, Palin, and Romney lack, is a quite strength, determination, integrity, and intelligence to do the job.

  103. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Who had a nanny? BHO
    Who ate dog? BHO
    Who is the leader of his party, the party that controls the WH and the do nothing senate preventing the passage of a budget? BHO

    And your DCP job- “the Developing Communities Project, which operated under the Gamaliel Foundation network. His mentor was the ex-Jesuit, Greg Galuzzo, lead organizer for Gamaliel, who received his training under a fellow named Saul Alinsky. Remember that name – Alinsky.

    Another of Obama’s mentors was organizer Jerry Kellman, whose Calumet Community Religious Conference founded the Developing Communities Project. Alinsky, who built the original Alinskyian network of community organizations – the Industrial Areas Foundation (IAF) – also trained Kellman. Not too surprisingly, the Chicago IAF affiliate worked with Obama on legislative issues and supported him in his bid for Senator.”

    I know, you leftists will always deny BHO was raised by the farthest left, extreme radicals, but it is the truth. Thanks for reminding us about about the DCP, lardnos

  104. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    … Romney being handed money by his daddy…

    Which he gave away to charity – all of it. Remind me again… how much did Biden and 0bama donate to charity this year?

    …is better business experience than a guy that had to balance the budget for a non-profit?

    He ran a non-profit? Great. No wonder why he’s so ineffective at leading our struggling economy.

    Romney had no more of a leg-up than did 0bama. But the difference is we know how Romney paid his way at BYU and Harvard. 0bama at Punahou, Occidental College, Columbia, and Harvard? Not so much.

    And we also know that Romney graduated with honors from both BYU and Harvard – where he was only one of 15 to graduate with dual degrees in Law and Business, graduating with honors in Law and in the top 5% in Business. 0bama? Not so much.

    You think Obama had as much liquid cash available as Mitt?

    That’s just it, to this day no one knows about 0bama’s education financing, we do know about Romney’s.

    As for real life experience in the value of a dollar, I’ll take the guy from a single parent family any day.

    Because… only folks from single-parent families know the value of a dollar, and are thus more qualified to be president.

    Okey-dokey.

  105. Which he gave away to charity – all of it.

    You must not be referring to the AMC stocks that he and Ann used throughout college to avoid having to work….

  106. But the difference is we know how Romney paid his way at BYU and Harvard.

    By selling off the stocks that his dad gave him.

  107. concernedtacoma7 says:

    So his family assisted or paid for his schooling. He obviously worked his rear off and did excellent.

    You are just jealous.

    The left is jealous that he had/has a loving family that did well, fiscally and socially. Even though they are wealthy, they instill a humble work ethic in their children.

    Who had a nanny again?
    Who travelled the world as a child, throughout college, and then on our dime, all while producing nothing?

  108. Not jealous – my parents paid for my tuition (granted it was in an in-state institution that my father got a discount for because he was on faculty there) – just clarifying the facts.

    Anyone who claims that Mitt somehow was a self-made man is a liar.

  109. And….my other two degrees I paid for completely by myself – with no stock portfolio that had been given to me as a birthday gift.

  110. Back to the letter….so the loan guarantee of $535 million is a significant amount of money but $4 billion extra in tax revenue isn’t?

    Your conservative math is just so interesting…..

  111. philichi says:

    beerBoy who is less of a drain on society the family that paid for their own kid to go to college? or the one that expected a hand out? Then, takes over a nation and runs up a $5 trillion dollar debt in 3 years? Obama has been very expensive to all of us.

  112. CT7:
    Because dogs are unclean, I really doubt that Obama was served dog when he was in Indonesia (at age nine).

    But then zombies will believe anything as the rest of you rant shows.

    Vox you have drank so much red koolaid your sweat and other fluids are red.

  113. concernedtacoma7 says:

    xring- BHO stated he ate dog. Go read his book (but from the library, no need for more royalties).

    BB- your little sob story about paying for schools show that a) you should know personal responsibility, b) you are jealous.

    So his parent paid for his education. If you had/have children, do you consider it spoiling them to pay for school when they perform so well? Given that he took that education and made something of it, was it not a good investment by his family? Would you pay for your child’s education if you could afford it?

    Thanks to the Obama economy many parents cannot afford it today. It is a shame but if you can pay you should be proud.

  114. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    Sorry bB, only libs begrudge Romney for his parents doing exactly what yours did – pay his way through college. And the AMC stock was given to him as his college endowment waaaaay before George Romney passed away so, yes, he gave his inheritance to charity.

    But the more pressing question is who paid for 0bama’s education?????????

    I mean, if we’re going to make this an issue, it has to be relevant to both candidates – no?

    And again, we know who paid for Romney’s education from Cranbrook to Stanford to BYU to Harvard. We also know he was a and honor student at both BYU and Harvard Law – top 5% Harvard Business School.

    Funny though… along with the mystery of exactly who paid for the poverty-stricken young Barry Soetoro to attend Punahou, Occidental College, Columbia, and Harvard, the narcissist-in-cheif – who never misses an opportunity to toot his own horn – has never released his grades, transcripts, or thesis(‘).

    Really, what’s more embarrassing?

  115. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    Just tellin’ it like it is, x. Keepin’ it real – refuting your and the rest of the 0bamazombies distortions, inaccuracies, half-truths, innuendo, and flat-out lies.

    Get used to it bub.

  116. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Where did Lardnos go? I want to hear more about DCP and BHO’s leadership role.

  117. I don’t begrudge Mitt anything. I just point out the b.s. from the Right who insist that he pulled himself up from his bootstraps in order to try to negate the class-based cluelessness Mitt has demonstrated when he regularly inserts his foot into his mouth.

    He never was poor, he never was middle class. Not that those are necessary requirements for a good president (FDR and JFK came from the top tiers of income). But this attempt to paint him as something he clearly isn’t just doesn’t work.

    Nice try ct7 but I won’t bite – not jealous – I had some advantages growing up and am very grateful for them. Others had more. Others had less. I acknowledge that the advantages I enjoyed were UNEARNED. What I did with those advantages was up to me but I started with a headstart over some others.

  118. concernedtacoma7 says:

    You did begrudge. You imply, on a regular basis, that wealth is something that people should be ashamed about. That is possibly the most disgusting aspect of the modern left (read progressives, the failed #OWS, and the current admin).

    For all of BHO’s man of the people act, has he struggled? For how long? He was handed a world class education, on top of experiences (travels; eating dog) that 99% of Americans do not. Yes his family was a mess (no show dad, commie mother) but he was taken care of.

    His wife was handed a $300k/year job that did not exist before her and she was not replaced after she left. You are falling for an image, not the truth.

    The Romney’s are a model family, and for some reason that drives the left crazy.

    I know Axelrod is scared, knowing that BHO only made it where his is today by having his opponents blasted for affairs (with the exception of McCain, and he was just the wrong guy).

  119. I wonder why such a model family would need to hide money in the Cayman Islands. Got to make you question why?

  120. concernedtacoma7 says:

    BS flag- he claimed that money on his US taxes. Companies he did business with preferred to bank in the Caymans. Nice try. More rhetoric and deception.

  121. CT7 – citation? And why not a US bank, so what does the company have to hide?

  122. I’m convinced that the lunatics are running the asylum.

  123. vox – you really are getting into the “election spirit” in your aggressive othering of the President.

    I will say it again – neither side can run on the positives of their candidate (and both have some) which is why there are all these questions about faith (whether it be that “church in Chicago”, LDS or the continued, persistent rumors about Islam), childhood (wealth, birth, original name, etc.) and dogs (John McCain used to have a reputation for some dignity once). Both sides are busy trying to “prove” that the other guy isn’t like you and me.

    Frankly, I don’t want my president to be like me. I don’t want to have a president who would be a great guest for a backyard brew and barbecue. I want someone who I am confident is Elite. Is better than the rest of us. And…..neither Mitt nor Barack (not Barry) are that guy.

  124. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Wow, a refreshing post from BB.

    “The Romneys’ investments in funds established in the Cayman Islands are taxed in the very same way they would be if the Romneys held their shares of the fund investments directly in the U.S. rather than through a Cayman fund,” the statement said.”

    The rest of the article is pure speculation.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/romney-cayman-islands-holdings-complicate-tax-return-debate/2012/01/24/gIQAmuvZOQ_story.html

  125. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    I just point out the b.s. from the Right who insist that he pulled himself up from his bootstraps…

    Again with the straw man, bB’s. Who is insisting “that he pulled himself up from his bootstraps”? No one – although the democrat talking point rable-rousers would have their uninformed minions believe this is some kind of conservative mantra. But you don’t need to be tilting at windmills, bB, you’re smarter than that.

    He never was poor, he never was middle class.

    Neither was Barack 0bama, yet how many times have we seen him and his handlers attempt to portray him as someone from unfortunate circumstances. Was Mitt Romney’s family more monied than 0bama’s? Yes. Did it make a difference in their opportunities – especially educational, apparently not, although Romney clearly made better use of his.

    So what’s your point?

    As for my “election spirit”, the battle lines have been drawn, and I think you are very much aware of how I feel about the current president. But I don’t think I’m guilty of hyperbole in my defense of the guy I will be voting for – unlike 90% of what I see from your side.

    As I said above, I’m just tryin’ to keep it real.

  126. LornaDoone says:

    “concernedtacoma7 says:
    April 19, 2012 at 6:31 pm Where did Lardnos go?”

    Obsession. It’s not just a perfume.

  127. LornaDoone says:

    “eating dog”

    OK, we need to open up The Obama File and put that somewhere between “birth certificate” and “palling with terrorists”

  128. LornaDoone says:

    “But the more pressing question is who paid for 0bama’s education?????????”

    Scholarships (you earn those, unless racists think you get them because you are black), working and student loans. Real middle class

  129. LornaDoone says:

    “has never released his grades, transcripts, or thesis”

    And Romney’s grades, etc are where???? What is the website?

    Of course, the lazzie faire always have time for a dig at the colored guy:

    “I heard someone suggest the other day that as soon as President Obama releases his grades and birth certificate … then maybe he’ll do it,” Matt Romney told a group of senior citizens in New Hampshire (when asked about his dad’s tax forms)

    You see, Barack Obama was not only a black person that got to go to Harvard only because he was black, he was also given a law degree because he is black. Of course, as many will remind us, he is only half black, thus only got half a Harvard degree.

    I might be wrong, but I don’t recall the conservatives asking for Bill Clinton’s transcripts from Oxford.

    I can’t wait for “playing the race card”. It’s such a fun online game.

  130. LornaDoone says:

    Oh, and Matt Romney……the President already released his birth certificate. The first president to do so in the history of the United States.

  131. Vox – the Dems want to overhaul the tax codes and close the loopholes that allow ALL corporations and the rich to avoid paying their fair share of taxes.
    It is the corporate owned lap-dob Rpots who are blocking these efforts.

    CT7 – ‘no class, pride or honesty; cherry-picking, deflection; not addressing issues honestly or logically’. Yup, that’s you to a Tea.
    Example – how can oil companies pay the second highest rate when they pay NO income tax?

    Obama’s Top 50 Accomplishments

    http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/march_april_2012/features/obamas_top_50_accomplishments035755.php
    Bush’s Top 50 Accomplishment

    http://www.melanierawn.com/bb/archive/index.php?t-4803.html

  132. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    Scholarships? Got proof?

    I’ve seen he may have had a partial scholarship to Occidental, but “friends” got him into Punahou and his wealthy gramma paid for it.

    After that, no one seems to know how he got into Harvard, let alone Columbia. But I’d welcome any official link to show how he got his grades up high enough and exactly Who paid his way.

    As I keep saying, we know how Romney paid for his schooling, and what his academic achievements were – heck, there are even plenty of people around who remeber him.

    0bama? Not so much.

    So until you can show 0bama did not have someone to bankroll his education, and that he was even a fraction of the student that Romney was – you really don’t have an argument, do ya’.

    And don’t give me the president of Harvard Law Review crap – remember, he also “won” a Nobel Prize.

  133. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    x, 0bama isn’t running against Bush again… is he?

    And if dems were serious about overhauling the corporate tax structure, why the hell didn’t they do it when they controlled both Congress and the presidency, instead of wasting 2 years on the boondoggle forever to be remembered as 0bamacare?

    And do you know why he won’t propose it anytime soon? (Hint, what’s he been doing the past 8 months?)

  134. I’ll make a deal with you all.
    Dems, raise my taxes on higher income from 35% to 39% like the Clinton Era than shut up. No more speeches No more whining. Would you libs be happy with this? or, would we have to continue the whining and noshing of teeth that we have now? Perhaps we could just adopt all of the Clinton tax rates for everyone. You have worn me down. What would the libs have to talk about then? Gay marriage? Rent controls? Paint color regulations? Wheele chair abuse? Could they finally sleep at night, or would they need more of my life energy?

  135. I see that it is useless to try to have a reasoned, rational discussion with vox until after November…..

  136. You’re being overly generous Bb, I doubt very much a reasoned, rational discussion with vox or any of the other extremist right wingers….ever.

  137. alindasue says:

    concernedtacoma7 said, “The Romney’s are a model family…”

    Now, that is one area where Mitt Romney has more in common with President Obama than he does with many of his Republican co-candidates.

    Both gentlemen are in strictly monogamous relationships with their first and only wives. Both take an active part with their wives in the raising their children. Both have children (adult children in Mitt Romney’s case) who appear healthy, well educated, and aren’t likely to embarrass their fathers by having pictures of them at drunken parties sprawled across the tabloids.

    Although President Obama’s mother was a single parent, he knows the importance of maintaining a good marriage and has done so. He also has close ties with his extended family, something that has been lost in much of our society.

    Mitt Romney’s family was raised with family prayer and a good wholesome LDS lifestyle…

    Suffice it to say that both equally qualify for the “model family” designation.

    President Obama has a lot of money. Mitt Romney has a bit more money. I have yet to see a successful presidential candidate that couldn’t be counted in at least the top 10% income bracket. That’s just the way it works out. It takes a lot of money to run for president.

    So, we can all agree that they are both good men who happen to be rich, right? Good. Now let’s move beyond the partisan personal attacks and start discussing important things like how these gentlemen stand on the issues that affect us and our country.

    Thanks.

  138. Reasoned conversation?. Your government spends more money than comes in by $1 trillion dollars per year. The President and Dems spend their whole day trying to take $4 billion per year from investors. Sort of like emptying the ocean with a soup spoon. Do you all really think that your party and leaders are qualified to be in office?

  139. LornaDoone says:

    “Your government spends more money than comes in by $1 trillion dollars per year.”

    Starting in the House of Representatives, run by the Republicans. They seem to think that you can keep cutting the income and balance the budget by cutting services to the citizenry. Seems like a one way ticket to NOTHING to me.

    Tell me one business that tries to balance its budget by cutting income.

  140. LornaDoone says:

    “philichi says:
    April 20, 2012 at 10:58 am I’ll make a deal with you all.
    Dems, raise my taxes on higher income from 35% to 39% like the Clinton Era”

    Sorry Matthew. You don’t make enough money to make a difference.

    Math isn’t your strong suit, is it?

    There are bigger fish than you and THEY need to pay – corporations for openers. Then we need to quit buying toys for the Generals and Admirals.

  141. LornaDoone: when the Democrat Senate writes a budget, you will have a point. The Republican house has passed a budget, it has not been voted yet in the Senate.
    Please tell your liberal Senate friends to come home from Woodstock, sober up, exchange tie die shirts for suits and get to work.

  142. LornaDoone says:

    “And don’t give me the president of Harvard Law Review crap”

    No one knew of him, except the crowd of people he was talking to when he hugged the professor.

    You just never know when your own propaganda will hit you in the face, do you?

  143. LornaDoone says:

    Matthew – aren’t the Republicans running the show? They are the majority.

    As to the Republican Budget – tell us how many congressional seats you’ll lose if they follow Ryan’s advise and mess with Medicare.

    As Andrew Sheppard said:

    “This is a time for serious people, Bob, and your 15 minutes are up. My name is Andrew Shepherd, and I AM the President.”

    Fiction will be the precedence of history, Matthew. Get ready.

  144. “there are even plenty of people around who remeber him.

    0bama? Not so much.”

    Except for you r little hero sean hannity who tried and tried and tried to make a big deal out of some video of the President while he was in college.
    Once again, the right loses in an epic way!

  145. LornaDoone says:

    Kluwer – amazing how their own spit flies back in their faces, huh?

  146. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    Matt, Larry the Lorna Hill is not even good at what he likes to do best; take things out of context, e.g;

    we know how Romney paid for his schooling, and what his academic achievements were – heck, there are even plenty of people around who remeber him.

    0bama? Not so much.

    Somehow you conflate that with my comment on his election to president of Harvard Law Review.

    We should expect nothing less from the likes of you, but you may want to give your parrot a cracker before he poops on your shoulder.

  147. CT7 – so I don’t have to buy and read all his books, how about a title and page number.

    ‘Drive the left crazy’ – When dealing with the right crazy is just a give-me putt.

    ‘$300,000 job’ I can no such listed on Michelle Obama’s employment record.

    If the rest of the article is pure speculation, why would you trust any of it?

    Vox – get used to being refudiated by the truth.

    Obama was the Editor of the Harvard Law Review – no a post for poor or even average law student.

    If Mittens is so smart, why didn’t he put their luggage on the roof and Shams inside?

    ‘wealthy grandma paid for it’ – which one would that be – the one in Hawaii or the one in Kenya?

    I believe this is what is known as ‘grasping at straws’ – get enough and you can build a strawman.

    No, but I could not locate a list Romney accomplishments.

    ‘Why didn’t the Dems overhaul the corporate tax structure?’ Gee, I don’t know. Maybe the 45 Republicon Senators were busy racking up a record number of filibusters.

    ‘Why he won’t propose it now?’ Hint he has and the Rpots are still blocking it.

    What have the Republions been doing for the last 3+ years? Trying to make Obama a one-term president even if it means destroying America in the process.

  148. CT7 – wrong again – Romney disclosed both his overseas accounts on his revised public disclosure form. Seems someone forgot to list them on the original/

    Phillichi – go eat as sneakers; you are whining again

    Neither the President not the Senate write budgets. All budgets and spending bills MUST start in the House.

    The arrogance and stupidity of the of House Repulicon Leaders is that they will not write a budget that has a ghost of a chance in the Senate.

    Alindasue – being a tad older than you I remember Ike – who only had his Army retirement in 1952.

    LoonaD – more amazing is that they never learn from their experiences.

    Vox – ‘his election to the Harvard Law Review’ – You, Sir, made no such comment.

  149. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    Calm yourself, x, your hyperbole is beyond palpable. The only thing you got right above was Larry’s name – LoonaD, perfect!

    In the mean time here’s a little calming reading for your edification, since you claim you couldn’t find a list of Romney’s accomplishments:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/25/us/politics/how-harvard-shaped-mitt-romney.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitt_Romney#University.2C_France_mission.2C_marriage_and_children:_1965.E2.80.931975

    0bama was elected president of HLR by his peers – grades had nothing to do with it. But the fact he was the first black person to hold the position…

    Shame on you for bringing up Shamus! (At least Romney didn’t eat him!)

    If 0bama’s grandma didn’t pay for his expensive education at the most elite private school in Hawaii (which of course, as Vice President of Bank of Hawaii, she certainly did) then who the heck did!!!!! C’mon, x, be a hero – a credit to your party – answer the question. And while you’re at it, link positive proof from a neutral source stating who paid 0bama’s way at Columbia and Harvard.

    See… you can SAY whatever you want, x, proving it always seems a bit of a challenge for you though.

    Followed by much incoherence… or is that excoherence, but then in the next post, this jewell:

    Vox – ‘his election to the Harvard Law Review’ – You, Sir, made no such comment.

    Okay, I’ll give you just one. What I did say is worth repeating though, since the similarities are hard to ignore:

    “And don’t give me the president of Harvard Law Review crap – remember, he also “won” a Nobel Prize.”

    HTH, sincerely, but I doubt it will.

  150. Followed by much incoherence… or is that excoherence

    I really can’t differentiate between the person who wrote this and the person he wrote it about – the rhetoric is equally silly.

  151. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    Oh now don’t go all self-righteous on us bB. We’re just havin’ fun.

  152. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Xring- http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/apr/20/context-obama-dog-eating-indonesia/

    Also worth noting the obvious bias. He says it in own words, yet they do not answer the question.

  153. concernedtacoma7 says:

    X- don’t know why I bother. A simple google will give you the answer. If you do not like the source there are many more. But you do not care for the truth anyway. Worst part, it was $300+k and part time.

    http://www.cdobs.com/archive/our-columns/michelle-obamas-job-eliminated/

    Got to love Chicago politics!

  154. alindasue says:

    concernedtacoma7,

    I read the articles at both the links you provided above. The Chicago Daily Observer article was interesting – not so much for the article itself, but for the comments that accompany it.

    This one was dated 15 January 2009 at 4:52 PM:
    “I’m already sick of the corruption, greed, and graft from this presidency. Don’t be an idiot, you false messiah worshipper.”

    This was five days before President Obama had even taken office. Already the ‘he’s a lousy president’ comments and hyperbole had started BEFORE HE WAS EVEN IN OFFICE to do (or not do) anything in the position of president.

    Very interesting. Doesn’t say much good about the cooperation level from “the right”.

    At your Politifact article link, it does quote President Obama as saying in his book, “With Lolo, I learned how to eat small green chili peppers raw with dinner (plenty of rice), and, away from the dinner table, I was introduced to dog meat (tough), snake meat (tougher), and roasted grasshopper (crunchy).”

    Indonesia is not the only country where it is normal for dog to be a food animal. Personally, I would not feel good eating dog, but people do it. In Brazil, guinea pig is a common delicacy. Here in the USA, most larger grocery stores carry rabbit in their meat department. Since a couple house rabbits and a loveable guinea pig live in our home as part of our family, the thought of eating either disgusts me – but it doesn’t necessarily make the people who eat those animals bad people.

    This whole “dog” issue has gotten silly and out of hand, detracting too much from the real issues that should be discussed.

    Look at the Mitt Romney situation. Everybody’s all up in arms that he had his dog in a carrier that was strapped securely to the roof of his car while traveling. While that is definitely not the standard way of transporting a dog, I do have to wonder – was that dog any worse off than the millions of dogs we see riding around, secured and unsecured, daily in the back-ends of pickup trucks on our nation’s highways?

  155. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Alindasue- I just hope the ‘dogs’ story even each other out and we move on to real issues.

    Michelle’s no show $300k job is interesting, but not a factor until she opens her mouth about hard work. It also speaks to their integrity. Chicago way. Very dirty, and unbecoming the highest office in our land. The comments were not far off. The stimulus will go down as the biggest kickback of all time. The writing was on the wall but no one cared to look. White guilt, good speaker, and recession at the same time blinded the left leaning/moderate voter. Well, America really knows him now.

  156. You probably aren’t even aware of what you just did:
    I just hope the ‘dogs’ story even each other out and we move on to real issues.

    Michelle’s no show $300k job is interesting,

    You dismiss the dog stories as the actions of Mitt as an adult to decide to strap the dog carrier to the top of the car are far more disturbing than Obama, as a child, eating food that was prepared by someone else and placed before him. Claiming that they “even each other out” is a net gain for your guy.

    And then you follow up with another non-story attack.

    I really doubt that either couple ever struggled by on Top Ramen or had to decide whether to pay the rent or buy medicine. Clearly the Romneys have much more wealth than the Obamas now (by a ratio of 25/1) but really…..who cares? Romney has probably made more clueless, careless remarks that demonstrate a disconnect from the reality the majority of us live but – again – who cares? I don’t want a President who “feels our pain”. I want a President who can lead this country. And, frankly, none of the above fits the bill.

  157. “I just hope the ‘dogs’ story even each other out and we move on to real issues.”

    Well I doubt that very much since your party and your man mittens lose, and lose huge, on the issues.
    All you rightists have and have ever had is the ‘dog’ type stories you always over use.
    Does it bother you at all that your party has no real substance? No policies or ideas that even you can name that…work?
    Don’t you ever find yourself empty and wanting just something tangible from your party that you can grab onto?

  158. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    I see that it is useless to try to have a reasoned, rational discussion with vox until after November…..

    That’s because your definition of “reasoned, rational discussion” is frequently absurd, irrelevant hyperbole.

    e.g.:

    You dismiss the dog stories as the actions of Mitt as an adult to decide to strap the dog carrier to the top of the car are far more disturbing than Obama, as a child, eating food that was prepared by someone else and placed before him.

    Please, bB, if you can’t even admit that one is as absurd and irrelevant as the other, then stop trying to claim reasoned thought about anything. We get that you’re in full campaign mode – no need to defend the indefensible. Better to just take a pass unless you care to inject a humorous perspective on such non-issues.

  159. And the comment is proven correct by vox herself.
    Way to go!

  160. alindasue says:

    concernedtacoma7 said, “The comments were not far off.”

    The comments that accompanied that article were written BEFORE President Obama had even taken office. If he wasn’t the president yet, how could he already be “…corruption, greed, and graft from this presidency”?

    Or was the commentor perhaps referring to the president that was currently in office…? (Context of the comment indicates otherwise though.)

    I’m not normally a partisan voter (and I’ve actually voted for more Republican presidents than Democrats) but the absolute refusal of so many current Republicans to even try to work with the president – even to the point of changing their minds on issues (such as, mandated health insurance) once President Obama says he likes the idea too – has led to the most unproductive congress I have seen in the nearly half century I’ve been around to see.

    In this three ring circus we call our government, it’s not the ringmaster who’s making this show hard to watch. It’s the over-abundance of “clown” acts (of all political persuasions) that are getting in the way of the other acts trying to perform. The ringmaster’s (president’s) biggest flaw is that he seems to have lost control of the clowns.

    When clowns like Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell began the 2010 show by stating, “THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT THING we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president” (emphasis mine), it became clear that this was not going to be a very good show and it hasn’t been.

    I’m hoping that when the circus comes to town again next year there will be a lot fewer clown acts. While clowns can be entertaining, too many clowns just ruin the show.

  161. so vox make equivalent the actions of an adult to the actions of a child as well as the treatment of a living creature to the eating of a dead one. And he calls me absurd in my logic….

    dude – own your campaign hyperbole and stop trying to point to others.

    there was one humorous line from Pacman about dogs on the Op/Ed comments. All the rest of them are just absurd campaigning from those who pretend that they are dealing with important issues.

  162. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Alindasue- BHO started his term with a majority in Congress. He used that majority to ram through policy that not only was against the interest of Republicans, but unwanted by the majority of Americans. How should they act? His version of bi-partisan is going along with him, no input from the other side of the aisle.

    We have drifted so far from the established role of the Federal Govt it is beyond scary. In the last 3 years alone that envelope have been pushed and pushed, building on a progressive model started by the likes of Wilson and FDR. The dems are buying votes while ignoring the needs and finances of the next generation.

    The great unifier has divided this nation to a breaking point. The writing was on the wall the second he beat Hillary. Wanting him gone in 4 years was a natural response, and a proper one for his party and the nation.

    BHO’s version of the Constitution is not the one written by our Founders. It has been trashed, and turned into a document that limits the individual, not the govt. BHO is today’s advocate for transformation, big govt, and entitlements. He is rhetoric defined.

    Those folks in Chicago that know the dirty politics played there knew what was to come. Unfortunately for the nation, they were right.

  163. CT7;
    If Obama’s grandmother was so wealthy why was his mother on welfare?

    And even if she did pay for Obana’s education how is that any different that Daddy Romney paying for Mittes’ education?

    As to who paid for what – who cares – it makes no difference – just another foolish talking point for the zombie base.

    But do continue to be a credit to your party by posting there taliking points – saves me time have to listind to fox spews.

    I’ll give you the dog eating, but my question is did he know what it was before he ate it?

    And What question does he not answer in his own words ( your 4-20 post at 8:21 pm)

    The $300,000 job
    1. You claim she was ‘given the job’ but there is nothing in the article that says when or why she was hired.

    2. The article does not say if the job was part or fulltime.

    3. The article says her job was only one of 16 that were cut.

    4. Do you thank that maybe she took time off or took a leave of absence to help her husband?

    Vox – why are you using CT7’s comment about the dog stories cancelling each other out to bang on beerBoy?

    Are you having areasoned, rational discussion with him or is this an example of absurd, irrelevant hyperbole?

  164. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Xring- the handouts BHO got his whole life are relevant due to his ‘war on the rich’ and the left’s attack on Romney’s wealth. If you cannot make that connect you need help beyond a local newspaper blog.

    Paying for your child’s or grandchildren’s education is an honor and nothing to be ashamed of, until you make wealth political.

    Face it, she was given a BS, no show job. Chicago politics. Dirty

  165. If you want to convince me to vote for Mitt or Obama you won’t convince me either way by these endless gotcha attacks on either candidate. A side-by-side analysis of what each of them have accomplished as Governor or President would be the only logical approach.

    Nasty caricatures of either aren’t informative of anything but your lack of rational logic and the low level of your discourse.

  166. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    so vox make equivalent the actions of an adult to the actions of a child as well as the treatment of a living creature to the eating of a dead one. And he calls me absurd in my logic….

    beerBs, can you not see one is as absurd as the other? I think that’s all ct7 was saying.

    You, however, seem intent on working the moral equivalency angle so I propose we ask the dogs in question:

    Q Shamus, did you consider you ride in a dog crate that was attached to a luggage rack on top of the Romneys car to be cruel?

    A “Absorutley not. rI got to go rith the famry on rheir varation rinstead of ra stinky kennel!

    Okay, thanks, Shamus. Now for the unknown dog meat meal:

    Q Unnamed Indonesian dog, did you think the fact you were raised in a box, fattened up, and finally butchered in order to be the future president of the United States of America’s meal to be cruel?

    A http://soundjax.com/cricket_sounds-1.html

    Unnamed Indonesian dog?

    http://soundjax.com/cricket_sounds-1.html

    Ohhh… that’s right… it’s that whole butchering and eating the dog thing. Sorry, audience, we’ll just have to assume the Shamus episode and outcome worked out a lot better for him that for unnamed Indonesian dog.

    dude – own your campaign hyperbole and stop trying to point to others.

    ROTFLMFAOZ!!!!!

  167. Nope – still not funny.

    Crediting pacman I will repost his joke:

    We all know that Obama would never transport a dog in a carrier strapped to the roof because it would dry out the meat.

  168. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    Okay, that was funnier… in a lot fewer characters sort of way.

  169. alindasue says:

    beerBoy said this, and I feel it bears repeating because it expresses my feelings as well:

    “If you want to convince me to vote for Mitt or Obama you won’t convince me either way by these endless gotcha attacks on either candidate. A side-by-side analysis of what each of them have accomplished as Governor or President would be the only logical approach.”

    On the dog issue:
    Is eating dog any worse than eating rabbit? The thought of eating one of my rabbits disgusts me just as much as eating dog would, but people in the USA raise rabbits as food all the time. It’s not a crime.

    Is a dog riding in a well secured carrier on top of a car any worse off than a dog riding loose (or in a carrier) in the back of a pick-up truck? Not really. In fact, Mitt Romney’s dog was probably safer and more comfortable than many of the dogs I see on the freeway every day.

    It’s time to get away from the non-issues and focus on the issues that are important to this country. Talk about Romney-care vs. Obama-care. Talk about voting records and plans for dealing with the economy. Talk about their stands on foreign relations. THESE are the things that are truly important. The rest is just side-show nonsense at the circus.

    BTW, beerBoy,
    Pacman’s joke, although tasteless, was quite funny. Thanks for repeating it. I’d missed it the first time.

  170. Not thrilled by the idiots who drive around with their dogs in the back of their pickups….or the ones who drive with their mini-dogs sitting in the driver’s lap either.

    But…..I sincerely hope that Mitt’s lapse in judgment on this doesn’t typify his decision making process.

  171. alindasue says:

    beerBoy said, “Not thrilled by the idiots who drive around with their dogs in the back of their pickups….or the ones who drive with their mini-dogs sitting in the driver’s lap either.”

    On this, I think we can both agree. I can only presume that Mitt Romney had his dog on the roof because there wasn’t enough room in the car for the carrier – pretty much the same reason a lot of people put their dogs, and often human passengers, in the beds of their trucks.

    Personally, I’d choose a bigger vehicle. When we had to bug-bomb our house last year, we got seven people and two animal carriers (one for the guinea pig, one for the rabbits) in our mini-van for the afternoon. The Romneys had the money to rent a bigger car.

    As to whether that incident is an indication of Mitt Romney’s decision making process, I think a better indicator would be the political decisions that he has already made. As you pointed out, that’s what we need to be discussing.

  172. LornaDoone says:

    If the family pet is a cow or a pig, there is nothing wrong with slaughering it for food, right? I’ve known many rural families that have done such. As to dogs in Indonesia, I’d say that we’re going down Culture Road again.

    If George Bush were in Indonesia and had a meal, no one would speculate as to if he ate dog or not. Speculation is saved for people of color. Racism is alive and well, as usual.

    By the way, Mr. Philichi, do you have a problem with me addressing you by your first name? It seems that one of the conservatives that can’t seem to deal with the topics of the letters has now made an issue about me reference you as “Matthew” on this thread. If I’ve somehow offended you by doing so, let me know. I avoided only using your surname and I was taugh that is rude, unless a familiarity is present. Just let me know on any thread. Thanks.

  173. concernedtacoma7 says:

    Stupid, he (BHO) said he ate dog in his own book. No speculation. No speculation as to whether you are completely out of touch.

  174. Vox_clamantis_in_deserto says:

    But…..I sincerely hope that Mitt’s lapse in judgment on this doesn’t typify his decision making process.

    Gawd, bB, give it up!

    Thanks, alidasue for your coherent post @ 1:55. I completely agree – without limitations or, as in bB’s case, qualifications.

  175. Vox – my understanding is that the story was originally told by a family member (his wife?) about a lapse in judgment. I also understand that it was told with affection and love – much the same as when my wife tells of my silly lapses in judgment. If the story had been told about W I would be tempted to see it as typifying his behavior but my take on Mitt is that he is far more intelligent and grounded that that past president.

    My take on Mitt (and why I think he would be worse than Obama) is that he is the GOP version of Bill Clinton (without the sex or the “I feel your pain” charisma). And that frightens me.

  176. concernedtacoma7 says:

    If we limit the President back to the powers granted in the Constitution, the debate would not matter as much. But BHO’s power grab (as outlined in today’s NYT) tips the balance of power too far.

    “He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments”

    I do not see free stuff, secret deals with Russia, Obamacare, or anything of the sort in there.

  177. ct7 – Warnings about the Imperial Presidency were ignored by the Right when Bush was Pres and, sadly, there are more than a few on the Left who are ignoring it now.

    However, there are more than a few from the Left (as opposed to DemLoyalists) who are extremely alarmed by Obama’s extension of imperial powers that are not granted by the Constitution.

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