Letters to the Editor

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SMOKING: Majority clearly supports ban

Letter by Laura B. Goggins, Kirkland on April 11, 2012 at 10:49 am with 79 Comments »
April 11, 2012 11:12 am

Re: “Public pipe, cigar smoking effort alive” (TNT, 4-10).

What part of “smoking kills” don’t these folks get? The people of Washington spoke clearly, when they overwhelmingly supported the Clean Air Act that made it illegal to smoke in public places.

Now, here we go again – small special interests manage for the second time to mount an assault on what the people have clearly said they want: workplaces free of carcinogenic smoke. Ultimately, if this thing passes, people are going to be forced to lie and say they don’t care about smoke in order to keep their jobs.

People of Washington: is it worth it? Is it worth it for any mother, father, child, spouse, friend or co-worker of yours to choke out the last few seconds of their life in a hospital bed, in great pain and suffering, in order that a privileged few can smoke at will?

Leave a comment Comments → 79
  1. aislander says:

    Another member of the tyrannical majority.

    THIS is the new puritanism: the troubling suspicion that someone, somewhere may be enjoying himself…

  2. Ortingmom says:

    Laura, have you sent this letter to all of the Indian Casinos in our state that allow smoking? Have you sent this letter to the Guv, so she can ensure all workers are safe and free from smoke? Didn’t think so….The Guv has the Tribes in her pockets.

  3. Most get that it shouldn’t be allowed in a workplace, where some will NOT have a choice but to breathe it in…but if someone wants to create a club, and only members are allowed, no employees, then it shouldn’t matter to anyone else, you aren’t required to join.

    There are much more pressing problems facing humanity than a personal habit such as smoking.

  4. Theefrinker says:

    I find this to be rather ill-informed, and missing the point. They are essentially trying to get the local government to grant back part of the freedom that was taken away. If the issue was about employees being exposed to the smoke of the customers, that issue does not apply to a “Cigar Lounge”. Only a complete degenerate would patronize (let alone apply for employment) a cigar lounge that either didn’t have an interest in cigars and be well aware of any potential risks, or simply enjoy smoking cigars themselves.
    Also, McDonalds kills too; where’s the anti-fast-food legislation?

  5. itwasntmethistime says:

    I’ll bet in the coming years more people will die from obesity-related disease than smoking. Where’s the crusade to remove junk food from our schools?

  6. Laura, I suggest that you stay away from places where people enjoy a good cigar. You don’t need to stick your nose everywhere.

  7. BlaineCGarver says:

    The majority don’t approve of Gay Marriage…hmmm…what to do? It’s funny how liberals ALWAYS support the minorities, unless they disagree with it….

  8. LornaDoone says:

    Second hand smoke is known to create problems for people, especially those with respiratory problems.

    What problems do gay marriage cause for your health, Blaine?

    OrtingMom didn’t get the memo about sovereign nation status for Indian casinos. She also missed that Gregiore isn’t running for re-election so all the demonizing is for nothing.

  9. SkinnyChef says:

    Laura, I think you are missing the point, clubs are not public places and nobody is forced to work there. Also, smoking is a choice made by adults. I don’t smoke, but I don’t try and cram my personal views down other peoples throats as you are doing. Yes smoking kills, so do cars, prescription drugs, guns, and polar bears. Attacking peoples choices is just another chisel strike on our dwindling personal freedoms. But then again your view of the world must be good from atop your high horse.

  10. BlaineCGarver says:

    Lorna, serious? Really? Those with respiratory issues can choose to NOT spend money in a smoking establishment. I would not choose to eat, drink and be merry with that stench dirty ashtrays. IMO, this is an issue of property rights, and personal choice. Let the free market solve the problem. You can put a picture of a rotting lung, in color, on the door of smoking establishments…..

  11. LornaDoone says:

    Skinny – laws are put in place to protect others from those who don’t care that smoking in a public place affects others – cramming it down other’s throats, if you will.

    I’m all for private clubs having smoking areas. Unfortunately people take their habits to other areas – in front of the door of a public place where I can’t avoid it, if I need to enter and, my personal recent favorite – while pumping gas (yep, that was where the fool lit up!)

  12. LornaDoone says:

    Blaine – you avoided my question. You equated this to gay marriage. Tell us how gay marriage affects your health.

  13. LornaDoone says:

    Blaine – you might want to take note that only about 25% of adults choose to smoke and the forward thinking eateries eliminated smoking long before a law was passed.

    Again, the law was passed because some people are not courteous enough to use common sense.

  14. I’ll bet in the coming years more people will die from obesity-related disease than smoking. Where’s the crusade to remove junk food from our schools?

    Yep…all that “second-hand fat” sure does pose a huge risk!

    But….the tyranny of the majority must be fought. IF the club has NO risk of second-hand smoke impacting employees and other guests – what is the issue? Let them kill themselves with by sucking on a phallic symbol.

  15. “THIS is the new puritanism: the troubling suspicion that someone, somewhere may be enjoying himself…”

    Yes it is, and you will fight tooth and nail to make sure they can’t marry each other or go to the doctor.

  16. alindasue says:

    Ortingmom said, “Laura, have you sent this letter to all of the Indian Casinos in our state that allow smoking?”

    Some of the smarter tribal casinos have already gone non-smoking on there own and advertise such as a selling point in their ads.

    itwasntmethistime said, “Where’s the crusade to remove junk food from our schools?”

    You’re about a decade late on this issue. Public schools quit serving junk food and having pop vending machines years ago. The machines at my daughters’ schools only dispense juice and bottled water.

    On the topic of the letter, as others have stated before me – a person applying for work in a bar may have an issue with smokers, since he or she signed on to work with alcohol and not smoke, but a person applying to work in a cigar or hooka bar (hooka bars are an issue in Idaho right now) knows that he or she will automatically be exposed to the establishment’s main product. I don’t agree with the choice, but it is a choice made willingly.

  17. Laura-You are clearly biased. If you were addicted to tobacco you would be singing a different tune.

  18. tellnolies says:

    speaking of second hand smoke, how about that petrochemical haze we city dwellers live in.

    Non smokers should quit driving, the second hand smoke from your exhaust is killing all of us….you can ride a bike or walk after all. There’s no need to create all those carcinogens with your personal choice to drive.

  19. lylelaws says:

    testing

  20. tellnolies – I’ve heard of cigarette boats but that doesn’t really mean that people are using tobacco as a means of transportation.

    Cigarettes, Cigars and Pipes are nicotine delivery systems – their entire purpose is to create toxic smoke.

  21. Dave98373 says:

    “I’ll bet in the coming years more people will die from obesity-related disease than smoking. Where’s the crusade to remove junk food from our schools?”

    If fat people want to die early and eat junk food, then that is their choice…If smokers want to kill themselves…I am all for it!…the difference?…Second hand smoke.

  22. tellnolies says:

    I was mostly being sarcastic BB, but we do accept some toxins in our air and water, because they are socially acceptable to a majority of citizens, for whatever reason…

    Smokers have little political clout, a good target for both taxation and demonization.

  23. aislander says:

    I know that the tribes are BIG contributors to Dems, so that is why they have been given an exclusive on cigar lounges.

    Follow the money…

  24. Theefrinker says:

    “Cigarettes, Cigars and Pipes are nicotine delivery systems – their entire purpose is to create toxic smoke.”
    -This statement contradicts itself. Their entire purpose is to deliver nicotine (as stated); smoke is a consequential effect. Tellnolies’ argument and comparison was completely sound and logical. I would argue that the fumes from the car in front of me (especially if maintained improperly) are more toxic than cigarette smoke (second-hand). It’s never been as much about health as it has been about people just not liking it. I’m not a smoker, by the way.

  25. LornaDoone says:

    nor does Aislander comprehend sovereignty

  26. sandblower says:

    Great letter Laura. I have no doubt that those on the extreme right will complain that their freedom is being expunged, which is more of their nonsense.

  27. averageJoseph says:

    Some of the smarter tribal casinos have already gone non-smoking

    Really? Which ones. I mean, they have some no smoking sections, but I know of none that have outright banned it.

  28. aislander says:

    Wow, aJ: is it really THAT fumb? Sovereignty is irrelevant except insofar as it gives tribal casinos a market the voters have taken away from non-tribal businesses.

    Of course, the legislature could repeal the initiative as it is wont to do with those dealing with taxes and spending, but, since the tribes have contributed significantly to the Dems, well…

  29. Just be thankful that the tribal casinos are able to cater to your addiction. The rest of us are free to enjoy smoke free air.

  30. Frankenchrist says:

    C’mon Blaine! Don’t run and hide like a typical repuke. You equated smoking to gay marriage. Tell us how gay marriage affects your health.

    We’re waiting….

  31. LornaDoone says:

    Blaine is still hiding from the question?

  32. LornaDoone says:

    “Sovereignty is irrelevant except insofar as it gives tribal casinos a market the voters have taken away from non-tribal businesses.”

    No, sovereighty says “get the hell out of our business, we’ll do what we want”

    The Tribes contribute to the GOP also, but don’t mention that because you might make a CON have to think for a change.

    Take a look at the who the largest donors for the Legislative Minority leader are. http://www.ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Richard_DeBolt

    Oh my! The Chehalis donated as much as Debolt’s employer…no, not the citizens of the 29th District….his REAL employer.

    Then, after you have that information, go back to playing dumb. You do it so well.

  33. LornaDoone says:

    Oh boy.

    Not one tribal donor at the top of Gregiore’s list

    http://www.ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php?title=Christine_Gregoire

    Next lie, please?

  34. aislander says:

    I wasn’t referring to what the state did or did not do to the tribes,; I was talking about what the state allowed NON-tribal businesses to do in competition with the tribes! Sheesh!

    I would guess that Gregoire hasn’t collected campaign contributions for this cycle because SHE’S NOT RUNNING!

    But she did, she did…this from the Seattle PI:

    OLYMPIA — Gov. Chris Gregoire is benefiting from more than $650,000 in campaign contributions from Indian tribes that hit the jackpot in 2005 when she killed a gambling compact potentially worth more than $140 million a year to the state.

    Unlike 22 other states that collect millions from revenue sharing agreements for tribal gambling, Washington gets no money from tribal casinos under the compact that Gregoire renegotiated with the Spokane Tribe.

    Read more: http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Tribes-give-big-to-Gregoire-avoid-sharing-casino-1276446.php#ixzz1ro7PkQSG

    So…are you lying or are you just fumb?

  35. “fumb”

    Really? Using a made-up word that is a spoonerism built from an obscenity and an insult? This is the level of your discourse these days?

  36. Publishing a letter from the anti-smoking storm troopers is guaranteed to rattle everyone. Good job, Trib.

    Now Laura if you don’t mind, please go look at the taxes imposed on tobacco sales. Then take the wonderful un-budget that the Olycritters just came up with and SUBTRACT the tobacco taxes from the revenue income side.

    Then write a sensible letter to the Trib and thank all the Washington state smokers for smoking. Every time a smoker lights up, he/she should say “For The Children.”

  37. “I know that the tribes are BIG contributors to Dems, so that is why they have been given an exclusive on cigar lounges.”

    No it isn’t but facts are beyond your level.
    You NEED to hate what you can’t understand, you thrive on it.

  38. scott0962 says:

    “The majority” would probably agree that too much junk food is bad for you too but does that give them the right to ban it? At one time the majority agreed that alcohol was bad for us and banned that too, remember how that turned out? And how will they enforce these bans if people refuse to comply with them?

    “What are you in for, kid?”

    “Possession of cigarettes with intent to smoke. You?”

    “Possession of junk food and meth with intent to distribute, armed robbery, burglary, assault, attempted murder…but I’m getting out early: the prisons are overcrowded.”

    Every time we knuckle under to those who would make our lifestyle decisions for us it only encourages them to come back for more. What a dull world we’ll live in when everything that might be bad for us has been banned and risk aversion is mandatory.

  39. Every time we knuckle under to those who would make our lifestyle decisions for us it only encourages them to come back for more. What a dull world we’ll live in when everything that might be bad for us has been banned and risk aversion is mandatory.

    So, is it safe to assume that you are fully in support of same-sex marriage, legalized marijuana?

  40. Frankenchrist says:

    Still waitin for Blaine. Something tells me we’ll be waiting a long, long time!

  41. LornaDoone says:

    Aislander – why don’t the donations show up on her top five? Casinos didn’t have enough money?

  42. LornaDoone says:

    Are YOU lying or just FUMB?

    State tribes have pumped more than $600,000 in campaign contributions into the state Democratic Party since 2004, which in turn contributed to Gregoire’s campaign.

    Read more: http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Tribes-give-big-to-Gregoire-avoid-sharing-casino-1276446.php#ixzz1rqN75Njt

    As usual, you take the truth, edit it down to what you want it to be.

    In the CON world, Indians are not legitimate campaign donors to the political party of their choice, who in turn donate to their candidates campaigns.

    These are the same CONs that will try to tell us that Citizens United is a good thing and a fair thing.

  43. LornaDoone says:

    Now to really amplify your stupidity, let’s see who was behind the Gregoire “story” –

    Tom McCabe, executive vice president of the Building Industry Association of Washington, which has contributed heavily to Gregoire’s Republican challenger, Dino Rossi, said the incentive is obvious.

    “Politically, they can’t afford to have her lose,” McCabe said. “So they are going to have to spend whatever it takes to have her win. They know if Rossi wins, all bets are off.”

    Read more: http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Tribes-give-big-to-Gregoire-avoid-sharing-casino-1276446.php#ixzz1rqOa2k2c

    Hello, Pot!!!

  44. itwasntmethistime says:

    alindasue — I guess it’s what you consider junk food. Juice isn’t much better than pop. It has some nutrients, but it also has as much sugar as soda pop. I’m pretty sure that public schools still have a lot of things on the menu I would consider an occasional treat, not a lunch staple, like tater tots, and I know they serve bleached fortified white bread instead of whole grain breads and buns.

    The “pink slime” thing of late has me scratching my head. It doesn’t sound good. We don’t buy pre-made patties or ground beef in pre-packaged chubs because the texture doesn’t seem right. It seems too pasty to be pure beef simply run through a grinder. If I won’t serve it at the house I wouldn’t want my kids eating it at school either.

  45. aislander says:

    beerBoy: re “fumb”–I write for my intended audience.

    In this instance I nailed it…

  46. Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein.

    * Translation: He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby becomes a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you.

    Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil

  47. aislander says:

    Apt that you would quote a philosopher influential to both socialists and fascists.

    Oh wait: that last phrase is redundant…

  48. Sad that your world view is so narrowly constrained….

    often referred to as one of the first existentialist philosophers along with Søren Kierkegaard (1813–1855), Nietzsche’s revitalizing philosophy has inspired leading figures in all walks of cultural life, including dancers, poets, novelists, painters, psychologists, philosophers, sociologists and social revolutionaries.

    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/nietzsche/

    btw – Henry Ford was admired by both Hitler and Stalin….

  49. averageJoseph says:

    But did Henry Ford admire Hitler and Stalin?

  50. The old truism for lawyers is to never ask a question if you don’t know the answer to it.

    It was Henry Ford who in the 1930s built the Soviet Union’s first modern automobile plant (located at Gorki) and which in the 50s and 60s produced the trucks used by the North Vietnamese to carry weapons and munitions for use against Americans.2 At about the same time, Henry Ford was also the most famous of Hitler’s foreign backers, and he was rewarded in the 1930s for this long-lasting support with the highest Nazi decoration for foreigners.

    http://reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street/chapter_06.htm

  51. aislander says:

    Then Henry was in the company of the NY Times and The New Republic along with the muckraking McClure’s Magazine in praising both, as well as the Fascist government of Italy…

  52. averageJoseph says:

    … and we DO know who Obama so admired in his autobiographies. ;)

  53. “Then Henry was in the company of the NY Times and The New Republic along with the muckraking McClure’s Magazine in praising both, as well as the Fascist government of Italy…”

    And Henry Ford was a conservative.

  54. BlaineCGarver says:

    Blaine – you avoided my question. You equated this to gay marriage. Tell us how gay marriage affects your health.

    LD, the issue is not health, but free choice and property rights. Laws in this Country are NOT enacted to please the majority….

  55. took14theteam says:

    Or, don’t ask the question if you can’t stand the answer.

  56. I better smoke while I can. Yawnnnnnnnnnnnn

  57. “Laws in this Country are NOT enacted to please the majority….”

    But you on the right sure do use the ‘majority’ whine to get what you want.
    Look at the health care reform act, you entire ‘case’ for repeal rests on a couple of trumped up polls claiming the ‘majority’ want it repealed.
    You really have no facts on your side on that issue at all yet you scream about ‘doing what the people want’.
    Now you flip and flop?
    Cake and eat it too?

  58. BlaineCGarver says:

    Focus on the issue at hand…..your analogy is not even close.

  59. BlaineCGarver says:

    Polls should matter not when the issue is a matter being constitutional or not…..

  60. Polls should matter not when the issue is a matter being constitutional or not…..

    And yet….the various Amendments added to the Constitution were clearly driven by public opinion.

  61. Some of the libs are clamoring for an answer to the question “how do gay marraiges affect you”? They don’t affect me. I would then ask you libs “how does the amount of money that a total stranger makes through honest work affect you”?

  62. frosty – it doesn’t affect me but federal deficits exacerbated by tax rates that don’t make sense affects the entire society.

  63. Beerboy, I see you still have an unusual amount of interest in the “phallic” symbol. I thought you left that behind in another thread. Oh well…..

  64. beerboy, then why not send a letter to Obama and ask him to pay more than his secretary?

  65. aislander says:

    Not a spoonerism, beerBoy…more of a portmanteau, I think.

  66. “Polls should matter not when the issue is a matter being constitutional or not…..”

    Oh I see, if you on the far right want to use polls and the majority, then it is as simple as making it a matter of Constitutionality, everything else the majority doesn’t matter…..is that it?
    Man, if you can’t see your own problem……

  67. “then why not send a letter to Obama and ask him to pay more than his secretary?”

    Because thinking people choose not to believe what they see on fox and drudge, knowing those places are always wrong.

  68. Beerboy, I see you still have an unusual amount of interest in the “phallic” symbol. I thought you left that behind in another thread. Oh well…..

    frosty – exactly where do you see that? I’ve scanned through my previous posts in this thread and don’t see what you are referring to.

    You may find it amusing to tout your anti-intellectualism and ignorance of the major theories/philosophies that have had a huge impact upon the culture and history of the world since the 20th century. But I have no shame in acknowledging that I am educated enough to know something about Freud and Nietzche, amongst others.

  69. Not a spoonerism, beerBoy…more of a portmanteau, I think.

    I believe you are correct. Thanks – I didn’t know that.

    A portmanteau (Listeni/pɔrtˈmæntoʊ/; plural portmanteaux or portmanteaus) or portmanteau word is a combination of two (or more) words or morphemes into one new word.[1][2] A portmanteau word typically combines both sounds and meanings, as in smog, coined by blending smoke and fog.[1][3] More generally, it may refer to any term or phrase that combines two or more meanings.[4] In linguistics, a portmanteau is defined as a single morph which represents two or more morphemes.[5][6][7][8]

    A spoonerism is an error in speech or deliberate play on words in which corresponding consonants, vowels, or morphemes are switched (see metathesis). It is named after the Reverend William Archibald Spooner (1844–1930), Warden of New College, Oxford, who was notoriously prone to this tendency.[1][2] A spoonerism is also known as a marrowsky, after a Polish count who suffered from the same impediment.[3] While spoonerisms are commonly heard as slips of the tongue resulting from unintentionally getting one’s words in a tangle, they can also be used intentionally as a play on words. In some cultures, spoonerisms are used as a rhyme form in poetry, such as German Schüttelreime. In French, “contrepèterie” is a national sport, the subject of entire books and a weekly section of Le Canard enchaîné. Spoonerisms are commonly used intentionally in humour.

  70. took14theteam says:

    I will help out frosty.

    Let them kill themselves with by sucking on a phallic symbol.

    April 11 at 1:06 PM.

    ;-)

  71. beerboy. are you lucid enough to remember this? “if you can satisfactorily explain why it has become common practice in America to scar young boy’s penises”. This was a comment submitted by you on March 25th, 2012 at 12:22 in response to a letter written by a boy named Conner Dorst on March 21, 2012, subject of his letter was about protecting owls. You somehow managed to bring into the conversation a subject which you seem to be overly attracted to, those were not my words, they’re yours. As far as your educational attributes, I’ve found that common sense is something that they don’t teach in college, you either have it or you don’t. Sorry beerboy.

  72. kluwer, so what you are denying is that Obama did not use every exemption available under the current tax laws to evade paying more taxes than he could have otherwise paid? You won’t find that anywhere on your primary sources of information,such as The Huffington Post, Grio, Media Matters, Mother Jones or MSNBC. You would have seen it on CNN, FOX and the Wall Street Journal. You need to broaden your perspective a little.

  73. beerboy, I’ve managed to get through life thus far without contemplating the theories of Freud. I don’t need a Freud to explain something that is patently clear to most clear thinking people. As for Neitzche, one of his quotations should ring a bell with you, ” The historian looks backward. In the end he also believes backward”. You should have spent less time in the teacher’s lounge theorizing on hypothedicals and more time smelling the roses.

  74. Freud rationalized his own oral fixation by saying “Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar”

  75. frosty – just got back from a ride up a mountain trail on my bicycle. Yesterday I worked in my garden, the day before that I took a hike.

    Don’t worry about me – I know what is important and what is insignificant (my “friends” here constantly remind me of that).

    I enjoy bantering with dcr, vox, and jimm (even though they sometimes annoy me) on a regular basis.

  76. beerboy, I guess that Freud blew his own theories about sexual obsessions out the window when he realized that a cigar is indeed just a cigar.

  77. I’ll wager that these people aren’t allowed to smoke at home.

  78. frosty – using the words “blew” and “cigar” in the same sentence seems a bit Freudian….

  79. beerboy, Very astute of you!

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