Letters to the Editor

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BIBLE: Old Testament doesn’t necessarily apply

Letter by Mildred Kavanaugh, Lacey on Feb. 15, 2012 at 1:18 pm with 30 Comments »
February 15, 2012 1:47 pm

Re: “Fight against discrimination” (letter, 2-15).

Space restrains me from adequately responding to the letter writer who castigated Christians because they ignore Old Testament rules.

Christians generally believe that Old Testament law showed us our sinful nature. But, because of Christ, we are no longer under the law, but under God’s grace. Those critical of Christians who violate Old Testament law by eating shellfish should study the New Testament. Christians who want to eat shellfish can.

The Bible does not support the slavery of the United States. In the Bible, poor people often voluntarily initiated the transaction to become slaves to wealthy people for a better life. The Bible sets out rules by which slaves were to be treated. A verse in the Book of Exodus states that anyone who kidnaps another person to make them a slave is to be executed.

As the saying goes, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Leave a comment Comments → 30
  1. Fibonacci says:

    The reason people are talking about thelaws in the Old Testament is because the anti-gay marriage people are using it to defend their anti-gay arguments.

  2. ManuelMartini says:

    “As the saying goes, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing”

    And if you are seeking someone with little knowledge, a person who tries to apply their Bible to your life is probably a great definition.

    I have no desire to worry about the content of the Bible unless it presents an illustration of the hypocrisy that can be expected. Of course, then the “interpretation” will change anyway.

  3. Old Testament marriage included incest, polygamy, consorts, kidnapping and rape….and that was by those Chosen by god.

  4. The problem is that Christians tend to pick and choose which laws of the OT they will follow. Either the laws, all the laws, apply or none of them do.

  5. Good letter Mildred. It is so sad that the same negative, pessimistic nay sayers have to disagree with what you are trying to say. Just try to ignore them and consider the source. You could write a letter about anything and these same people would try to one up you or show how wrong you are. Maybe their actions make them feel like a real person, who knows but it gets old and tiresome.

  6. Darlin – you are the pessimistic naysayer – all 5 previous responses SUPPORTED Mildred’s ideas.

  7. darlin, as usual, has no clue. The bible doesn’t necessarily apply, unless you want it to for yourself.

  8. ManuelMartini says:

    I see we are making friends and influencing people, eh?

  9. flamotte says:

    This is getting pretty scary. Here it is the 21st Century, C.E., and we’re discussing whether to impose a 4 thousand year old tribal law code from a bunch of nomads who swept out of North Africa and, according to their tribal stories, heard the voice of their tribal deity tell them to “kill everything that breathes” (Deuteronomy 20). So they slaughtered every man, woman, child, and beast in the towns they stole from the peaceful Canaanites, now known as Palestinians. And those they didn’t murder got to be their slaves. I think Americans can do better than this.

  10. ManuelMartini says:

    flamotte – have you ever wondered how God flooded the world, but the Bible stories about pre-flood carried on? Noah and family must have been pretty busy re-populating the world and being the librarians.

  11. I guess Noah and family didn’t have abortions and same sex marriages. But don’t look back, you will turn into a piller of salt!!!

  12. Old Testament marriage included incest, polygamy, consorts, kidnapping and rape….and that was by those Chosen by god.

    That’s right bBoy. The Bible does not withhold the truth about the sinful and immoral choices made by even the people chosen by God. Go back and read Judges again where you will see a vividly drawn paradigm of what happens when people turn away from the essentials of right living ordained by God. You will find that societies rose to great heights only to fall into despair repeatedly. These biblical narratives are great examples of what happens to people who ignore God. This is why those who take the Bible seriously have realistic fears about the direction our society is going.

  13. scooter6139 says:

    Sozo – Hate to burst your bubble, but every great society in history has risen to great heights and fallen. Every. Single. One. Some many times. If you want to put your morality stamp on it that is fine. Historical context provides a much broader view than the narrow christian one you seem to proscribe to. Believe in your god all you want, but I will not judge any part of history through that distorted lens.

  14. ManuelMartini says:

    Call me silly, but I’m not about to read The Bible like it was an accurate history book.

  15. Objective says:

    All the hype with the so-called end of the world talk in 2012, sure sounds good after reading most of these comments.

  16. Just to be clear: the original letter writer was not complaining that her opponents were applying the bible rules selectively, but that they did not acknowledge it and were doint it not in the way she preferred.
    It’s both sides claiming they have found their support in a pile of (ancient) mush.

  17. nwcolorist says:

    Sozo, since the 1960’s the moral decline in our country has been widely observed. And it continues despite many people and groups raising the alarm. Even Billy Graham’s great ministry hasn’t seemed to check it.

    The Jewish prophets also were ignored and ridiculed. But history, both secular and religious, records their predicted destruction of Jerusalem in 586 BC by the Babylonians.

    No one knows God’s plan for our country’s future. With God in it, even the most unlikely things can happen. Each and every person is responsible for their own spiritual salvation. We must be concerned first with our own and our families.

  18. Manualm says: Call me silly, but I’m not about to read The Bible like it was an accurate history book.

    I have better things to call you than silly mm, but will just say that you are a very sad case and no matter how much you spew your atheist views you will never sway believers to your sorry side.

  19. Atheist views have nothing to do with considering the bible non-historical; it’s common sense and well-established truth.

  20. nwcolorist says:

    Sorry, roussir. Archeological discoveries in the Holy Lands and Middle East are continuing to validate Biblical history.

  21. ManuelMartini says:

    Darlin – if I respond to you as nasty as you address me, are you going to report it to the moderators again?

    The only difference between you and an atheist is that the atheist has one less god than you. I have no intention of “swaying believers”. If they want a great fairy in the sky, that’s their business. Unfortunately they think it is their business to change my mind.

    I’d love to see some of the “proof” that nwcolorist can provide. Please…let’s start with the Noah’s ark laugher. That is always a great opener.

  22. ManuelMartini says:

    Here, this should keep you busy for awhile:


  23. Flamotte,
    God did not order the Israelites to ‘kill everything.”
    God told them to spare virgin girls under 12, and add them to their families.

    Nwcolorist – validation of Biblical history
    Let me know when the find evidence that the Romans required all men to return to the place of their birth to be counted and taxed.
    I’ll even settle for this happing in one province.

  24. Biblical History, right! I can hardly wait until they get to Genesis so that we can see the dinosaurs existing at the same time some sort of human entity was also present.
    Talk about a weak premise!
    The bible is a nice story with some very important lessons mixed in with horror and nonsense. I know of some contemporary, by comparison, novels that fit the exact same description.

  25. scooter6139 says:

    nwcolorist – I got to the part of “..Billy Graham’s great ministry..” and I fell out of my chair laughing. Pure comedy! Thanks for the chuckle! Please continue thumping that bible for all it’s worth.

    And as someone else pointed out, one doesn’t get to pick and choose what parts of the bible one wants to quote and what parts to ignore. Take it all in context or leave it out of the conversation all together.

  26. CuzEyewanna says:

    Billy Graham’s ministry? Was that getting his son, Franklin, sober?

  27. Archeological discoveries in the Holy Lands and Middle East are continuing to validate Biblical history.

    Got any citations to support that very big unsupported claim?

    Every so often, Israeli archaeologists make an announcement that others run with in attempts to prove the Bible a history book. Few serious scientists and non-believing scholars today view the Bible as an infallible history textbook, but that fact will not stop the faithful from trying to fit each piece of pottery, every building block found in Israel, into the biblical picture.

    In this way, we have been subjected to a raucous parade of “artifacts” in recent years, such as the so-called James Ossuary with a forged inscription; the “Jesus Family Tomb,” which was useless for biblical purposes; the fake ivory pomegranate supposedly from Solomon’s temple, and the bogus “Yoash/ Jehoash inscription,” which purportedly proved the temple’s existence once and for all. Even more recently, a scrap of what is claimed to be the oldest Hebrew writing was used to “prove” the Bible correct, even though it does nothing of the sort. This sort of holy forgery and propaganda mill has been in existence almost since the beginning, with a long list of bogus relics and misinterpreted finds.

  28. “Archeological discoveries in the Holy Lands and Middle East are continuing to validate Biblical history.”

    That is quite a stretch of the meaning of the word “validate”.

    It’s historical only to the extent a myth/literature reflects certain trivial information about the times (people bred goats, used knives and killed each other; there were big wars and big cities). It is not historical in the sense of “objective, methodical account of major events within a well-defined period of time, corroborated by other such account or knowledge in other areas”.
    The discovery of Troy did not validate that all or even most events in the Iliad as described by Homer actually happened; the consensus AFAIK is that the Iliad is based on word-of-mouth legends and folktales – pretty much as the bible.

  29. ManualM: For your information it wasn’t me that reported you. Why should I bother as you do a great job of showing your blatant ignorance on all subjects.

  30. People will use whatever they can to justify whatever position they want to take on an issue. Some people use selected passages from the Old Testament to justify their opposition to abortion, contraception, same-sex marriage, and other issues. When they do that they have to know their selectivity of Old Testament text will be questioned in light of some of the old laws in Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Exodus and other Books that no Christian follows today. It makes their arguments weak when that happens.

    Why do they do it anyway?

    As I have written on other topics like this, The Old Testament is really not Christian at all. It was pre-Christian, because it’s all about what happened before there was even a Christ. It’s really the history and old laws of The Jewish People, not Christians. Yes, it is Christian Heritage, because the first Christians came from the ranks of the Jews, and Jesus was himself born a Jew. But the part of The Bible that has to do with Christians starts at the first Book of The New Testament, The Gospel According to Matthew.

    The Old Testament really does not apply to Christians, or Christian beliefs. I, for one, don’t understand logically why Christians keep going to The Old Testament to justify their positions on any issues. It makes no logical sense.

    But, they are free to keep doing that if they like. However, if and when they do, they really need to be prepared to have their arguments shot down every time.

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